How Electric Car Batteries Will Charge in 5 Minutes
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Worried about waiting ages for your electric car battery to charge? Rory explains how Storedot is working on ultra fast batteries that will charge in as little as five minutes.
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![The TRUE COST Of Fixing An Electric Car Battery | High Mileage Tesla [Episode 5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QstBDw7UJ6Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Rory: What's stopping you from buying an EV?
Money, I'm broke at the moment.
And they are gay
How mature
@@oseh438 yep. As mature as the guys who gave him a thumbs up 🙄
@@jbogren 5* people.
You can use RC EV but can't drive sitting in it.
Damn, even my phone takes around 40-50mins to get full charge
the shorter the charging time using higher watts on current phones increases the battery degredation and overall capacity. The new Xiaomi phone that charges in 8 minutes would loose 20% total capacity of normal usage in 2 years.
My concern for car battery would be how long would it last in terms of losing capacity with faster charging as a trade off.
@@ascelot even with fast charging available, most people wouldn't use it that often. It would be mostly for highway pit stops on road trips. Normal day to day charging would be a trickle charge at home. I don't think the degradation would be significant if it was 1% of total charging, especially with good thermal management of the batteries.
@@CanonFirefly wish could charge at home :( did look into electric car few years ago, but lack of charging outlets and no outside parking for me, ment it was a no go.
@@ascelot where do you park? Have you spoken to the land owner about possibly putting in charging facilities?
@@CanonFirefly I try to park in off street parking opposite my house (free for all parking) though I can legally park outside my house, would restrict natural flow of traffick which is a main street for town.
I need a house first so that I can actually charge the damn thing.
@Mars Suckerbug Capitalism?
@Flying Spur Because interest rates have been too low for too long and government keeps propping up the property industry. Too much socialism is the issue rather than Capitalism
@@carlarrowsmith Exactly. But CaPaTLiSm
@@PK-xu7gu I knew that edit button was invented for a reason :)
I know what you mean, I had 3 estimates from electricians, and most of them were charging way too much to install the Electrical charger, and upgrade service.
As a Fiat 500e owner, I have NEVER charged it anywhere but at my house since I got it 4 months ago. Not because I couldn't, but because I didn't need to. And I NEVER went into problems with the range at all, even with the Fiats 250km range. Literally every morning you wake up, you have a full battery :) Never went to a gas station again and saved a lot of money.
But you should also give the battery resting intervals from charging, to ensure the longevity. Also for battery longevity, it is recommended to leave the charge between 30-70%.
And even then the battery will degrade over time, having a negative effect on range, which is essentially the equivalent of your ICE fueltank shrinking every year..
Sure. Try to make a long trip in that little EV of yours…
@@SevCars
That was situation with old tech.
Now they have new tech for wear protection.
Can do 400.000 km in a tesla and still has good range.
@@rogeriogomesosorio4755 Bro, I neither want or have to make a long car trip xD And so do 90% of the people
@@rogeriogomesosorio4755 I did 250 mile trips in my i3 with its first generation battery through the Scottish highlands without any problems. It’s really not that hard.
Well said, Rory. My range anxiety used to come from fluctuating petrol prices (when & where to fill up), but now that my garage is also my fuel pump, I wake up to "full tank" every day.
Right? Likewise. We have solar panels and house batteries to charge 95 percent of the time.
@@BradsPitt I agree that is the case now, but before long, you'll be able to charge your EV in shopping centres (while you shop, so none of your time is lost), at work, and lots of other places, because the grid is already there.
Gas stations that don't have EV chargers will be missing out, as because it takes longer to charge an EV (using current technology), that means there's an opportunity to sell the driver at least a coffee, maybe a meal, and let their family take a break (assuming the facilities make it a nice place to stop).
not for long matey.....once we are unable to maintain base load due to chronic shortage on generated capacity you'll be RATIONED
@@BradsPitt It requires government action (and I think Australia & US are in the same situation of various state governments setting inconsistent rules) but there are places in Europe that have really provided for EVs where on street chargers are on every street, and any residential building which includes parking (e.g. apartment blocks with underground parking lots) the building owners must make reasonable provision for electricians to install charging infrastructure.
@@BradsPitt They probably will, several compaines already do either they set it up themselves or they partner with another company so people come into the shop while they wait.
I'm not sure going to a specific place for charging while you wait will be the solution that wins in the long run as opposed to just charging a little every time you park your car. For me going to a petrol station is a hassle I'd avoid if I could and given the popularity of having groceries and other shopping delivered to your home I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. Another factor is I've heard from electrical engineers that (at least the current generation of battery tech) batteries will last longer if they are charged slowly, plus fast charging adds heat which loses energy in 2 ways both the heat itself and then energy used to cool the battery and the charger so that they aren't damaged by the heat.
Rory, really enjoy the content of late. I just got a Polestar 2, and loving all the benefits. I get home from work plug it in, and it's ready to go again the next day, no fuss, and with 250 miles on a full charge, can't go wrong! I'm one of the lucky ones to get this on a company car scheme, but after having it for just 2 days, I'm not looking back! Keep em coming, you're smashing it 👊
Do you have a job at your company for a company car???
Would you be as enthusiastic if you lived on the third floor of an apartment block or in a house with no drive? no thought not, 250 miles? is that with the heater or AC on lights on wipers etc.
@@pillred5974 haters gonna hate. Agreed I wouldn't be keen in an apartment block, it doesn't work and that needs to change, but I'm not so for me it does work. I never said it was for everyone, just the benefits I am enjoying from it. Seems to be what I get with climate on, I've not had it long enough to need to run at night yet. I find it odd that people get worked up about others sharing their positive experience. Maybe you should try sharing some of your own positive experiences and see how it's received. The world would be a better place if we could all be less negative towards one another, especially in platform like this where there is no verbal tone or body gestures to be able to interpret what is being said. I hope someone can bring some positivity your way and that you have a good day.
@@pillred5974 There are EV's with 150 km range and people are absolutely fine with that, because most people, live in cities. But if you're truly concerned about range, there's the Tesla Model S which can do over 400 miles.
@@gavlarhug I was merely pointing out that for a lot of people EVs are not a practical proposition at this moment in time, I have just bought a brand new Mazda 3 e skyactiv x and get nearly 60 mpg on a run and it takes me 3 minutes to fill it up for a 500 mile range so why would I want an electric car, in England charging your car away from home is nearly the same price as a petrol car and that would be the only option for nearly half the population, and as I'm retired and haven't had to do a days work in over 5 years every day is a good day for me lol.
1. The high price
2. No place where to recharge it
3. The lack of recharging infrastructure
@@null643 lithium mining is bad but let's think about all the wars fought for oil. All the oil spills all over the world. Let's don't act like oil extraction is all good and lithium mining is all bad. Can we do it better? Of course!
@@null643 oil refining is far more damaging to our planet rn
99% of the time I charge from home. The other 1% I've found little problem with charging infrastructure
@@null643 what powers your mobile, ipad and laptop?
@@Ben02120 If I could charge from home I think I would make the move. But I live in apartments where there's no simple solution (yet) to getting a charge point installed.
No one that has paid attention has ever denied the 5 minute charge at the cell level. The problem is once you are dealing with a whole pack of them the amps required gets crazy.
Cars moving to a 800v configuration will help but it's still not enough.
If you assume a 80kwh battery (not unreasonable at all) to charge that in 5 minutes would need 960kw. Even at 800v that's 1,200amps. For the wires to carry that they'd have to be massive, approximately(!) an inch and a half diameter each (I couldn't even find a calculator online that would go that high) and the charging cable would need two of them. Now remember that those same wires would exist inside the car also going into the pack.
The connector would need redesigned as most current ones used aren't specified for 500+.
No, you don't need even nearly that much charging power. That's that petrol fueling mentality again. First of all, you shouldn't charge all the way to 100% nor let the battery go to zero, so most of the time the ideal is to just use 60-80% of the capacity of the battery. Secondly, you don't need to charge fully (or even to 80%) at every (if any) charge stop. You just need enough to get to the next charger. As the charger network expands, the need for high charging speed lowers even further, because you have more waypoints to stop at. If you actually got that 960 kW charging speed, the reality would be that you only plugged the car for 20 seconds, because that would be all the charge you need most of the time.
@@Sabeximus oh I agree, I'm just going with the thinking of most people's thoughts when it's said they can get a full charge in 5 minutes.
At this point the only reason I don't have an electric car is cost, I am not concerned about range. A Renault Zoe would do my range most of the time. I just need a minimum size car and for that size and range gets beyond what I can spend at the moment.
Trust me you will regains a large chunk of that upfront cost in lack of tax and petrol savings!!
@@oseh438 I know, doesn't help if I can't pay for the car in the first place though.
@@Sabeximus So the ideal range for the batteries is 20 miles even if they're advertised as 100/200+? Imagine having a petrol car that you never let go below a 75% full tank. You'd live on forecourts. With electric cars it isn't a 20 second charge, you will always take a minute or 2 unpacking the cables and repacking them after.
If I cared to regulate my right foot, I could drain my tank to get 500+ miles for the entire time I own my car and not impact the life of any part of it (my car doesn't have a fuel pump). Even without regulating my foot, and filling at between half and quarter of a tank I can go a solid week+ without visiting a petrol station under pre-lockdown conditions, (post lockdown circumstances have changed that mean I go way longer, but that isn't reasonable to compare). To nurse the battery to 10 years I'd need to recharge twice a day on my post lockdown route, 30 minutes or '20 seconds', it doesn't matter, it's an inconvenience.
Don't start on the environmental stuff. EVs require 10 times more copper than ICE, and with that, their batteries barely see 15% of their components recycled. Cars in general are only 60% recycled by volume, (don't let government figures of 98% by mass fool you, all interior trim, seats, plastic wire insulation (crude oil product in abundance in EVs), etc is just burned off when the metal is melted) at best, scrapping ICE with years left in them is worse for the environment than keeping them going. Taking every ICE vehilce off the roads internationally isn't going to do anything about the minimum of 16 billion tonnes, probably closer to 20 billion tonnes of CO2 we humans alone exhale annually. As dark a statistic as it is, Covid-19 has done more for reducing CO2 emissions than everyone converting to electric cars could ever manage.
I own a Kia Niro and do some big miles in it, the one thing I’ve noticed is how much better I am at taking breaks now.
Start with a full battery from home, stop for 30 minutes to recharge the car and myself, then off again to home for a full recharge - pretty easy really.
Exactly. Driving an eNiro, you only need to consider a charge once you've covered 200 to 230 miles..... Not a huge deal if you use ZapMap or A Better Route Planner.....
Great if you have the time to do that and the chargers are available in the right place on your route.
I live in Australia. Three issues for me:- charging times, infrastructure presence and range. When these are improved and sorted, I'm sold.
Most are open to new technology, provided it doesn't inconvenience the public to the point where they feel like they've taken a step back.
Here, the incentives to switch haven't really been there. The good news is, though sales are presently at niche levels, they're always an improvement on the month or year before.
Japanese cars in the 60's had to prove themselves at the start. Electric is now kind of going through that phase. With perseverance, I know they'll be good sellers by this decades end.
Yes but partly because they'll force petrol/diesel cars off the road by pushing up the price of fuel to the point where you'll have to be rich to a=be able to afford it. That and/or tax them in other ways, as they do now.
Many people live in apartments or in homes without driveways on narrow roads where on-street parking own be possible so they'll have to have at least as many fuel pumps as there are now everywhere and 5 minute charging max for EVs to be adopted en masse. Even then they'll be like the iPhone, a healthy number of people will love them and an equally large number of people will hate them and wouldn't touch one.
Same
Ultra fast charging has been promised by countless companies but nobody has actually done it and there's no guarantee that they ever will.
They need to drop the rip-off prices of EVs though, main reason why they're inflated is the fact that the manufacturers will lose billions on spares and servicing costs that people won't need any more.
Lots of other issues to be addressed too, most people don't have access to home charging and probably never will, those who live in apartments or don't have off road parking. The prices are also beyond most people, a minority buy new cars and that minority will drop as prices increase.
When I can recharge an EV battery from 0 to 100% in less than 5 minutes and can get at least 300 miles from each battery charge, I'll consider it. So while I acknowledge that existing tech makes it feasible but not viable, I will wait until the infrastructure and costs catch up to the point where I can fully recharge an EV as quickly as I can fill a petrol tank. I will wait until that future you spoke about becomes reality.
So, you'd drive the whole 300 miles without stopping?
@@Brian-om2hh Why not? It's only just over 4 hours at 70mph on the motorway, even if you stick to the speed limits. Lots of bus, van and truck drivers do 4+ hour shifts.
Your range analysis makes sense for the UK, or Europe in general. However I live in the US, and my home State is larger than France…
As the government loses fuel duty and road tax money with the switch to EVs, toll roads and/or £ per mile charges become inevitable.
£ per mile sounds like it's gonna' cost more to tax EVs than the current emissions based tax bands 😬
Imagine what it'll cost in a fossil motor on top of higher fuel charging
100% and it's already been seen in Australia. When Rory said "...one up the tax man" I did think to myself then "yeah but for how long??" An EV will become as expensive to run as an ICE in no time....getting you into a cripplingly expensive EV now with the promise of no tax or less tax or tax breaks is all well and good but once its gets adopted you watch how quickly that rug gets pulled out from under you.
@@HairyCheese I'm shuddering thinking about it. I've got a large dog and a young kid so I need a big estate car or an SUV. And a budget of £400/month. The hybrid versions are so much more expensive than their ICE equivalents.
There's no great, used electric cars even if there were options as EVs are holding their prices so well.
@@arigold2654 The UK government have already killed the financial incentives for things like solar panels. I got one of the government quangos to come out and quote me for replacing my heating system with an environmentally friendly one. Even though my current system costs a fortune and is inefficient, the replacements were even more expensive. EVs will follow the same pattern in the UK.
What's the pricing system in OZ moving to?
Great video, the only problem I see is for people who live in apartments like me. You can't charge your car at home since 99% of buildings don't have chargers in the underground parking. So your only option is to always find chargers outside.
And guess what, nobody, absolutely nobody, will be able to give you a solution to the problem. I've asked dozens of times in the last few years and never got an answer.
Money and infrastructure! In a small market town on the Welsh border with on-street parking, it is almost impossible at the moment to swap my 12-year-old Volvo for an EV.
Sounds exactly how people describe Abergavenny
Cost and infrastructure is the biggest problem here in Ireland
No, infrastructure is also a cost. Everything in the modern human society is a cost. If I have a personal assistant like all those C people I don't mind the nearest Charging station is 50km away
“ Tax savings 😂” unless you live in Melbourne, they’re putting a yearly km tax on all EV’s
bruh
Same in Puerto Rico. It's absolutely ridiculous
You should be taxed, the same way petrol cars are, you are using the same roads and getting the same benefits. Why should people driving petrol cars be subsidizing you guys?
@@venom5809 I wouldn't mind if we're not being subsidized cause at least we're getting taxed like a normal ICE vehicle. Instead you get taxed additionally here for owning an EV, or even solar panels in your home. It's kinda crazy considering that in some states you either get equal treatment or even subsidies as you mentioned.
that’s crazy. why you let them do that?
Great video Rory and I'm with you 100%!
Got my first EV (Hyundai Kona Ultimate 64kWh battery) three weeks ago on a 2-year lease. Have a Zappi home charger plus solar panels.
I've done 750 miles so far and have only needed to use a public charger once - a 50kW unit at a Morrisons store.
Charged from 20% to 90% which gave me 200 odd miles, took less than an hour and cost me the princely sum of £11.28. That would have bought me about 9 litres of unleaded in my previous hybrid Lexus.
Rest of the miles have been done for free, using energy from my solar panels. What's not to like!! 😁😁😁👍
"5 minute batteries" sounded like the batteries would last for 5 minutes and u would need to recharge
I regularly drive over 200 miles to various destinations none of which have charging points or the ability to charge an EV (middle of nowhere). I sometimes stop after about 3 hours for breakfast, my favourite stopping point at present has no charger. At this point I normally have between 300 & 350 miles in the tank. I want to drive the route I want, stop where I want and not where the car requires me to go. I’m the 1% where a home charger would only cover me for 25% of my driving.
There's nothing I like more than driving around the Highlands and Islands of Scotland. No way can that be done in an electric car.
^ Exactly this.
Rory: What's stopping you from buying an EV
South Africans: LOADSHEDDING!
YESSSS BRO this country is a flop 😔
lmao, imagine running out of power during loadshedding.
So what about petrol attendants because here in SA there are allot of people who depend on petrol station jobs???
@@beardsmanpakkies6387 Not to lack empathy, but as the world evolves, some jobs will become irrelevant. Cashiers/Tellers could be next in another sector. You adapt or you die.
🤣Stage 4
Hey Rory! How come you didn't had a chance to review the new Rimac Nevera? Was hoping for your high quality review as always.
No thanks, he would lie about that car aswell probably
@@Delitor don't watch get lost.
@@kishorrajkr just watch carwow, much better review
@@Delitor yeah all fake laughs and stupidly u watch what suits urself.
@@kishorrajkr fake laughs? He does the review in a fun way and informs people. Rory is biased and lies
Me in Japan: Still waiting for landlords to allow for any sort of power point next to one’s designated parking lot.
It’s a problem in the UK too, if that helps lol
Im surprised Japan doesn't have better infrastructure with how advanced Japans infrastructure is
Supercapacitors can already charge in 5 minutes, but they don't have the energy density required for an EV. That is likely the case with the batteries you discussed. You are right that batteries are getting better every year. The cost to propel an EV is about 30% of the cost for a gas car in the US, and the ratio might be even more favorable in the UK and other parts of Europe.
The degradation of the battery due to fast charging might be another concern though. To what extent the power pack is replaceable and at what cost.
A Tesla Model 3 quoted from Tesla @25.000 USD prior Taxes for a complete battery swap after 200.000 km . ICE cars you can recondition the engine after 500.000 for 1200-2000 USD tops.. also no Spare Parts available for most electric cars.. like iPhones they are now planned obsolescence products.. with a huge CO2 footprint.
Agreed, the fastest you charge the more stress on the battery.
Hold on, did nobody understand the point of the video? The reason batteries don't charge quicker is because of the risk of damage.
Rory is talking about batteries that do charge quicker because they DONT get damaged. That's the whole point of the video.
@@BotsisAnargyros I think you are right in saying that currently, it might be cheaper to repair an ICE car than it is a Tesla. But please make a fair comparison. You are comparing a quote from a manufacturer for a $35k+ car to what? Which manufacturer will replace your engine after 500k miles for 2000USD? The example really doesn't work.
As with a phone, users probably ought to avoid fast charging routinely if they have the opportunity to charge it slowly when it's not in use for a while. For those with off street parking at their own house, office etc that's fairly easy, for others less so and that is a challenge that needs addressing. Fully autonomous vehicles could conceivably go and charge themselves in a multistorey carpark somewhere out of the way... ? Or battery technology might make the problem irrelevant. Until then it is a tricky balance.
Brian, an oil change once a year is around £40, change brake pads probably every 3 years, i don't buy new cars, just well used ones, I do all maintenance myself so no garage bills, plus I actually enjoy working on cars, if you are interested in mechanics and engineering its then it's no problem, an ev is a lot less interesting to me, I understood the workings of electric motors when I was a child, they are extremely simple and easy to understand , plus I work machines powered by electric motors everyday so it's nice to have a change!
If fully recharging EVs is going to happen in 5 minutes (not talking about battery swap, but actual charging), I want to load up on copper mining and processing stock. The amount of infrastructure impact is beyond the average person's ability to imagine. Not to mention that it would be very difficult (read: prohibitively costly) to refit current EVs for this capability.
To be fair, range & charge time combined is the 2nd biggest reason I am not going EV yet, I do a number of long journeys each month, and occasionally journeys that exceed a full charge range.
When these batteries come out into regular production, I will reconsider, dependent on charge station availability. The future Is looking better.
I knew you meant Germanium, chemistry is one of my stronger points
Thanks Rory. I have had my EV 6 months. I don't have a driveway and I can't charge from home so I rely on local shops that have free chargers. Managing fine.
22kw charger at my local Tesco.....free to use
And there we have it. You John, are a case in point. Some would argue it isn't possible or viable to own an EV, given your circumstances.
@@Brian-om2hh absolutely is, 😊 I drove 120miles to see friends , the cost there and back using other networks cost £2. You can't do that in an ice vehicle.
@@JohnDunkley It isn't, because millions of people cannot afford to spend that much on a car, even if it would mean cheaper motoring for them. As ever, those who can couldn't care less about those who can't.
Just to clarify. I am on minimum wage, my wife just a bit more. We decided to save up for the deposit to lease our car. Since we have owned this car(just under 2years) petrol prices have gone up by about £100 a month. We leased knowing that the cost was slightly more per month than we were paying in fuel. I'm glad I took that risk as we are now saving money per month. And, as I mentioned earlier if you're canny about it you can get free charging.
Without going too far into the science; one of the big issues with lowering the amount of batteries you have is that under heavier load they will actually discharge faster for a given amount. IE 1 KW discharged from a 4KW battery vs a 10KW battery at a high discharge rate will kill cause the 4KW battery to be unusable extremely fast. Has to do with how cell voltages work. Same thing goes for charging. There is a reason that it is so fast to charge up to 80% and then slow after that.
The economics of buying a new car, electric or ICE, is still the same. Financing (or paying cash) a 40k loan is still 40k to finance. None of the other issues bother me. Our diesel is ours, cheap to maintain and run. Until it literally falls apart, I'm not taking out any car loans. They can increase the road tax and fuel costs as much as the want. It's still cheaper that car finance.
Is a diesel car cheaper to run and maintain than an EV if you can charge at home?
Most new cars cost 40k. You can only really get a hatchback or the lowest spec Sedan/SUV for under 30k. Financing or cars is just the future. I have nothing against owning outright, I will be looking into owning a little sports car for a weekend drive. But I will always finance my daily, as it gets me in the newest car every 4 years and doesn't require me to drop thousands if not tens of thousands up front.
For me personally, and I would imagine it'll be the same for alot of people it's not even charging speed that is stopping me switching. It's just simply cost. I normally change my car every 4-6 years and I'll buy something that is about 3-4 years old and there's nothing of that age that takes my fancy right now, not an electric car anyway. I will be very much interested in a used E Tron in maybe like 3-5 years time, hopefully when they're within my budget (sub £20k).
@@null643 But nor is the extraction or processing of oil, its much worse in fact.
@@Brian-om2hh I find go green autos a bit over priced. Hopefully when the e Tron comes into my range, I'll probably use someone like Jonathan Porterfield from eco cars so that way I know I'm getting a really good deal.
@@thomaswood2390 Yes but there's also the fact that the non-recyclable part of the waste from lithium is one of the most toxic substances on earth, and at the moment they don't have a clue what to do with it - and it's rising at a faster rate each day as more and more people buy EVs. Bet nobody mentions that in the brochures.
Another thing that's not mentioned is that many countries, including China and India who between them are building over 500 new power stations to meet the expected demand, are building the majority of them to be coal powered. Even the US are still building new coal powered ones. So while in the UK it all sounds rosy, the reality is it's a load of boleaux. Nothing we do here will compensate for the increase in fossil fuels around the world, and it's not oil I'm talking about.
80k for the Etron. I'd buy the v10 R8 instead.
Same here
The Etron might be quicker.....
This is a fantastic time to be alive and to witness first hand this monumental shift in technology. Technology that has hardly arrived or been established is becoming redundant due to the sheer pace of innovation.
Whats stopping me from buying an electric car is the fucking cash!!!!
Amen 🙏
if you're talking price compared to an ice, a 6L/100km car going 50,000km a year at the average fuel price in australia of $3/L, thats $60,000 over 10 years in just fuel costs.
@@KingFinnch You also need to take into account the Mullet needed to drive such a large engined car.
@@angus9541 it was the math for a 30 year old škoda, was doing it for a friend
Charge time yeah. Also is it really environmental friendly?
What happen after the car battery can't be use anymore? If I'm not wrong only 5% of battery is recycled.
Mate, you seriously need to start reading up on the realities of EVs.
For example, the current batteries have been shown to be so reliable that they will easily outlast the rest of the car, we are talking about 1-3% degradation per year. Secondly, even when they are no longer needed in the car they then get reused first for a second life in energy storage because they will still have 70%+ capacity and be worth literally thousands of pounds. Then finally, even with recycling technology commercially available now, around 95% of the battery is recyclable.
There are some great RUclips videos by Fully Charged that explain all this.
Great video and very informative - properly on the money for content...!
Charging speed was the main focus in a fab multi-car video on another You Tube channel I'm subscribed to.
They took a range of EVs from the south coast up to the excellent Braintree charging hub and timed how long each car took to recharge back up to the battery level needed to get back down south again - as most EV drivers know, you don't rapid charge back up to 100% (unless that's absolutely necessary for your journey, of course) you only get enough charge to get you back home so you can put the car on overnight charge ready for the next morning.
Anyhow... cutting a long story short... the big surprise for me was that, whilst the Tesla Model 3 had been the most efficient in terms of its energy consumption, so got to Braintree with the most battery charge left, the heavier, less efficient Audi E-tron - which had used up WAY more of its available battery range getting to Braintree - actually charged up faster, due to it holding on to its maximum 150kWh charge speed right up to 80% full, so that it was done and gone way before the Model 3, which had slowed down its charge speed significantly earlier.
So, yes, a fast charging speed, held for longer as the battery fills up, is absolutely the way forward.
A flat battery charges faster. Perhaps if the Tesla and the E-Tron had the same level of battery you'd be able to get a better idea of which charges faster.
@@AutoTraderTV I know it’s a rival channel but watch Bjorn Nyland and you will see the e-tron charges faster as it doesn’t slow down as much as the battery charge increases, it’s charge curve is much flatter.
I could listen to this guy all day long. He's funny and he's entertaining any describes the issue with clarity.
It’s going to be interesting how the road tax and loss of fuel duty works out 🤔🤔
Running out of excuses to buy an EV except in Australia where you're taxed higher for driving an EV... and even higher for a PHEV... However, I can't wait for a proper BMW 3 series full electric dual/triple motor all-paw beast 😎
Yeah, but that would change in Australia too if they just stopped electing climate change deniers and fossil fuel industry shills to their highest offices.
The always engaging Rory has me watching videos on to topics I’d never have taken an interest in.
So how do you instal a charger if someone lives in a terraced house?, and once the majority of people get EV’s how will the national grid cope worth the huge demand in electricity that these rapid chargers will create. I think I will wait for some time before I even consider an EV.
Well first and foremost a big misconception is the grid cant cope, actually engineers want more evs as it will even the load and support the grid as the flow can go both ways. In terms of terraced home ubitrcity has lampost chargers all you have to do is request it so charging on the street is okay if needed we have plenty here near mine in london.
rory is highkey the best presenter on youtube
Tax benefits - That will not last long if the popularity grows with the consumer. Tax revenue will simply switch. Rory you are the man!!
Fast charging your batteries reduces their lives considerably. When it comes down to saving some time, vs saving your car, people will have to make choices
Not as much as you'd think and the tech he's talking about here is all about overcoming that wear and tear.
Modern chemistries are already very resistant to damage, especially with good battery management systems.
If you loose more than 8% capacity in 5 years then you've really done something wrong.
There's a Zoe Taxi that's done 250,000 miles with a tonne of rapid charging and less than 5% degradation. And the Zoe has one of the simplest batteries in any EV.
They get replaced every 8 years. Let's say it reduces that age to 5-6 years. Which is still alot.
Not really. The heat damages the batteries, not the fast charging itself. All modern EVs now have proper liquid cooled batteries. Unless you rapid charge 10 times a day, there is not much to worry about.
@@patrickbateman529 they don't need to be replaced every 8 years unless you've bought a Nissan Leaf.
@@patrickbateman529 Why must they be replaced every 8 years? The guy on RUclips who posted the video of his Tesla Model S, which had covered 400'000 kms, hadn't swapped his battery at 8 years old? Where do you people get your misinformation from?
I own a Leaf with the smallest of batteries, 24kW and it covers 95% of my needs. Maximum distance is 125km but it is more like a 100km if you use the air conditioner, heater, non-eco mode, or the highway. I have a medium-sized family and it suits us just fine. Our second will definitely be an EV. We have great charging infrastructure but you are right in that I charge my car at home 95% of the time. It is an exciting time right now with EV as the technology is changing rapidly. I’m waiting for much of these innovations to available in my next EV that would be able to go 415-500km or more.
It's not exciting for those who can't afford one and/or who are unable to charge them at home (such as people who live in an apartment); in fact the way the government are pushing up fuel prices it's actually very worrying for many, especially pensioners and those on low incomes, which together makes up most of the population in the UK.
This sounds lovely, but how many people will be quieing up to charge their car at recharge points?
You can refill a car with fuel and go within a few mins, less if you work as pit crew and it's already a pain waiting for people to move off at filling stations when there is a large queue. Imagine waiting for a queue of electric cars to charge.. 😁
Imagine sitting there for 5mins and the backlog of cars that would be waiting.. 🤦
Things have become steadily more convenient as the years have passed and it would make much more sense for people to be off the roads unless they need to travel for events, important business meetings, travelling abroad etc
So perhaps a more refined public transport system and the ability to work remotely would make shared commuting easier for most.
Synthetic fuel alternatives are not far from becoming available and as far as I can find out they will provide very low emissions which are offset further by the methods used to produce them, which include things like direct CO2 capture from the atmosphere to produce them. I'm not sold on EV's but they have a place, sure. Silent operation, fast and also "eco friendly".
Everybody wants conveniences and freedom, electric cars will play a part but as we've seen, more so now than ever before, there's something for everyone so can't think it'll just be electric everything surely....
Waiting for my car to charge while I grab a break at a service station... no thanks..
That path is basically heading towards full automation, why even bother to drive, might aswell let the car do all the work
I for one, would like to have a bit of feeling in my life now and again..
There are and always will be new alternatives to everything..
Electric cars are not so special in my eyes, sorry
Remember that most charging won't be done at that type of refueling station. We can only get petrol at a specific station right now. Electricity on the other hand is everywhere. As he said, most people will charge at home or work out someone else's home.
Excellent explanation, thank you. Once we get to German premium saloon cars with 400 mile range in sub zero temp @ about $60,000 USD, then I’m in, next anticipation would be 5 min charge with 80% refill, I’ll trade up. For now, I’ll stick to petrol.
As i tell my students when dealing with electrodes you should always PANIC. Positive Anode, Negative Is Cathode
Brilliant!
Yes that was my understanding of basic electrics 101... Sorry 'Professor' Computer Science Geek...need to brush up on your homework!
@@algesmith857 I’m sorry what?
I think he confused conventional theory with electron theory
Looking forward to those days, Rory. We built a house 2 years ago and are roughed in for e-charging in the garages. Right now its a choice between a hybrid Panamera 4S wagon and since you drove the Taycan ST, I'm not sure. I love long drives but as with most people, an all electric car fulfills 90% of our needs and we have other cars. We may get a full on EV vs a hybrid but still not decided. 5 min battery charge? Total game changer. Thanks again for your informative videos. Excellent work as usual!
Rory's videos are great.
Yeah, but so naive.
And the name Rory is rediculous
I wouldn't hold my breath. I see 3 issues: 1. improving the anode is not as simple as press releases say, 2. even if it was, I'm not convinced that'd be enough to charge at these kinds of speeds and 3. if it were possible, it would put a lot of stress on the grid and electricity supply.
Silicon has been the holy grail of Li ion anodes for decades, but the reason it hasn't been commercialised is that it swells when the battery is charged. Naturally, that means the battery pack swells, but it also means that the anode itself flakes. Next time you charge, the flakes flake, and eventually the anode disintegrates. Progress has been made, but silicon anodes are still not here yet (despite Tesla's promises). Now, this is the first time I've heard of germanium anodes. A quick browse suggests that germanium's swelling problems aren't as bad but... well, silicon and graphite are cheap and abundant, and germanium is not. It's not impossible to mine, extract and use at industrially-relevant scales (it's still used in microelectronics) but it's not available in EV battery kinds of quantities and it's a lot more expensive than graphite or silicon, and that will translate to more expensive battery packs. This is *without* any nanostructure formation, too, and that is typically difficult and expensive, too.
Even is we get Si or Ge anodes, that only partially solves the problem. Fundamentally, batteries trade off cost, safety, specific energy and specific power. It's not too hard to design a conventional Li ion battery, with a graphite anode, to charge faster than 2C (0% to 100% in 30 minutes), but you have to sacrifice safety or specific energy. You say that a Ge anode battery has demonstrated a charge speed of 10C, but I'm assuming that's a battery optimised for specific power. No matter what EV you look at, no matter which manufacturer or what chemistry, you can't find one that will charge faster than 3C. It's just not Li ion's strength, as a chemistry, and not something worth trading off capacity for.
Finally: charging infrastructure. A few places are starting to install banks of 350kW chargers, but those are still the exception, not the rule. A typical rapid charger will only supply 50kW, or 100kW if you're lucky. For perspective, the average UK home uses
Quicker charging = even more massive grossly overpricing
I own model x and a model 3. 42,000 miles on my X, never been to a service center. Only maintenance were new tires at 30,000 miles. I own solar panels and charge at home. Save $400/month on home electricity and gas. Love the full torque at 0 rpm. Love the quiet in our noisy world
Rory, I will stop you at 40 seconds in. You said electric cars are getting "more affordable all the time". Sorry pal its just not true anymore. Electric cars were somewhat worthwhile a 6 months ago, but now that the UK government reduced and removed the grant for cars over £35k, its just not feasible for most people. The cars are on average atleast £100pm more than they were a year ago. I am already COMPLETELY SOLD into the push for electric cars... but I just can't allow myself to budge until the dealers and government work something realistic out.
yeah.....how about batteries deterioration, specially in the col weather, 5-10 years and u have to change the battery pack, how much is the cost?
Learn about EVs before commenting. The batteries in an EV can easily outlast the car itself.
@@top10cars2 yeah if you drive the ev only weekends and not every day, you should learn about the cycles and the lifespan
Germanium is what made Jimi Hendrix’ guitar sound so cool 😎 (or part of it at least)
Also he played his right handed guitar left handed. Essentially upside down.
@@SeanC773 he did, but that has little to do with batteries. 👍🏻
One of the key things Tesla offers besides WiFi updates( both FOTA and SOFA) are multi stall Tesla fast charges 187 miles/15 minutes. Fastest charging speeds 20-80%. That last 20% takes the longest. Stop every 200 miles and top up not full up.
cost is the only barrier for me ngl
Tbh I don't think most people need more than 400/500 miles of range. So I think for most people cost is the problem.
Answering the question at the beggining of the video
The fact that the production of lithium ion batteries and the the fact that most electricity especiallybin the us is produced by non-renewable means so having a boring electric car is not worth it when it comes to helping the environment so might as well get a cool gas car with a manual transmition and an engine that doesn't sound like tinnitus
Simply two things
1) Range
2) charging time
Both those things are not a problem with today's EVs. Look at the 1000km challenges Bjorn Nyland does. No one can drive those distances without stopping for a dump, a wee, a snack or a coffee.
Outstanding video…far from the mundane and redundant. Bravo!!!
We had a second hand Nissan Leaf and it never got charged anywhere apart from home in 3 years!
And that is exactly what most EV owners do. It's usually why they buy one....
Interesting take on EV's , personally it's not range or cost that stops me buying an EV , it's simply down to the fact most of them have been hit hard with the ugly stick , they also have no "phwoor" factor and therefore zero personality, I live in hope that one day the manufacturer's will actually design an EV that stirs my automotive soul.
I am in America, live in a tri-city area with about half a million people, we have one of the biggest companies in the world headquartered here, Fortune 50 company, we have one Electrify America station here with a whopping 4 chargers and one Tesla Supercharger with a whopping 7 chargers, both those chargers are anywhere from 15-25 minutes from two of the 3 towns. So if you are visiting someone in town, living in an apartment complex, don't have a charger at home, staying at a hotel or working for an extended period in town and staying in a hotel that's your options. The apartment complex down the road from me alone has hundreds of units, just for that one place if everyone in there had electric cars you would have to dozens of charging stations built. On top of that at some point you are going to run into a land issue for all these charging stations that would need to be built among other things. Hell my house has a 3 car garage and I have 4 cars so if I had all electric cars I would have to have 3 chargers in my garage and some sort of charger outside too or have to play some musical chair nonsense with the cars every few days. I might get one electric car sometime this year or next year but I can't see myself replacing all my cars with electric any time soon.
Wait wait there's a couple of technical issues you forgot to mention in your analysis, that we engineers have to face:
- charging power is limited by the max input current the Inverter can manage
- similarly, the battery pack might be another bottleneck: the smaller the battery, the smaller the power it can handle
- it is extremely complex and expensive to develop an 800V charging infrastructure, and even 100kW charging stations will never be available for private homes and 90% of restaurants, superstores in the next future
- charge and discharge power is almost symmetric, so if you want a vw polo able to charge at 150kw, it will also accelerate with 150kw under the bonnet! This means it needs a better handling and braking system, which comes at a cost
Still, love your content as always!!!!
Question is how long the battery will last when you charge it like that all the time
Probably long enough that the warranty on the battery won't kick in. But more importantly, you won't need to fast-charge all the time unless you use all your time in the car.
I just don’t see that kind of high speed charging as being necessary. Just put chargers at the shopping malls and grocery stores. Then it can take an hour to charge while you do something else.
On road trips, a 400 mile vehicle would allow you to charge on meal breaks that most people take anyway. There a 30 minute charge time would work. And this would save us from the nutbags who think they drive just as good after 12 straight hours of driving as in the first two.
@@williammeek4078 But you're forgetting how many chargers would be needed at each services to facilitate this.
@@jameswalker7874 No, I am not forgetting about the number of chargers.
@@williammeek4078 So, you're suggesting then that every space at a motorway services will have a rapid charger. Rapid as in takes about 45 minutes to charge. Sounds like a very expensive prospect and full of issues with failures.
I really really really want an electric car, BUT:
A. They are too expensive to afford
B. I rent a house with no drive, aka i cant charge it at home
C. Why is nobody making an actual comment on battery decline after a few years? Give us info on that too!
Yes the decline in batteries is always ignored as replacements blow the whole equation out of the window. To replace the batteries will probably cost as much as a good second hand petrol car and it is a cost. that keeps coming back to bite you.
So true Rory. Pretty soon I think we're all gonna buckle and get an EV as our weekday driver (but still have the V8 for the weekend 😉)
Spot on Rory, the tech is getting noticeably better every few months. Personally I’m not comfortable financing a car. Brought current car at 1yr of its age and nobody can take it from me if my financial circumstances change, or I could sell it if things get tough.
My tank does not get smaller, the more I use it. When they can make 15 min charging without degradation, I’m in.
What degradation? Anti-EV idiots have been claiming that batteries degrade fast since the first EV but have been proven wrong constantly. You lose maybe 10% per decade which is less than your ICE motor is losing horsepower. Admit it: you just don't like EVs for some confused political reason, that's all.
@@seybertooth9282 check the studies. Battery degradation averages 2-3% a year. Supercharging only makes it worse. Check your facts, it’s everywhere and it’s scientifically verified.
Don’t bring your personal and political bias into this.
Currently it costs under £200 to drive 10,000 miles in an EV. It's over £1200 in a fossil fuel motor
I'm going to drive 800 miles in one of my EVs from tomorrow to Wednesday. Only public charging. The longest leg is 182 miles. Do I need 5 minute charging? Not unless I can get into the motorway services and pee quicker....
How is an EV environmentally friendly when it's made to be broken ??
I know some hard people like to keep driving, but 200 miles is about 3 hours of driving, and I need more than a slash and dash after 3 hours, at least a coffee, so that gives me 15-20 minutes which is about 200 miles of charge in my Tesla. Remember, unlike an ICE car you don't stand there holding the cable (yes, there really an advert showing this from one main stream car company)
The biggest problem is not charge time it is the crap infrastructure in the UK :
1 or 2 fast chargers at service stations (there are 6-24 Tesla chargers)
Non-working chargers (that lottery)
Trying to pay - we still are struggling with the problem of "money" - what is wrong with credit cards ! Those companies that do offer instant pay and go are putting "holds" on your account of up to £200 and keeping it for weeks; the charge companies are scamming you still - they hold the money to cream off interest rates on short term loans using your money. They don't do that when you get petrol.
Apps , ok , the same as the last one, but so f....g annoying.
Lack of support when the charger does not work
Chargers in non-safe environments - particularly for women - unlit at the back of a building.
Not often I disagree with Rory - great reviewer, but as a EV owner - it is the utter shite charging network outside Tesla, as time is not a problem for me - 15-20 mins for a coffee after 200 miles, lunch maybe is no difference than driving a ICE car. The biggest advantage is, as you note, I have a "full" tank of energy every morning at home - yes I am lucky I can easily charge at home - so 99% of the time is so much easier.
On the environmental side of things, Rory, where does the electricity come from to charge them and more's to the point, please explain the process of making the batteries, FROM THE START.
The environmental impact of an EV becomes equivalent to an ICE vehicle after only a couple years. After that it is much much cleaner, even if you charge from coal power plants, which are shutting down and being replaced by renewables at a rapid pace.
@@alsmith358 From what I saw during a 350 mile roundtrip this weekend, renewables are an unreliable source of power. Almost every wind turbine I saw, and that was a considerable number, was static, producing absolutely nothing, because of no wind. And how much CO2 was emitted manufacturing and transporting these things all over the place?
I laughed out loud at the Geranium joke. Your script writer is really funny.
*I don't like where we're heading regarding taxing EVs / any vehicle in the near future.*
£/€ per mile sounds like it's gonna be expensive depending on where you live / need to commute.
Plus, the eternal pessimist in me thinks our terribly out of touch governments will impose "millage allowances" , restricting our travel or financially punishing us if we don't comply.
But they will also be mindful of the fact that imposing ridiculously high cost per mile charges will also be tantamount to political suicide. They can't help but have noticed the big changes in voting trends of recent times. If they kick us, then we'll kick them back at the ballot box......... In a way though, they're stuck between a sh*t and a shiver, because they will also be aware that the people's annual motoring mileage has dropped by a couple of thousand miles per year over the last few years.
Yeah, it's like taxing former smokers for not paying tobacco tax anymore.
@@seybertooth9282 exactly lol. It’s a sin tax, but too many governments have treated it as a main revenue stream
Great video, great channel Rory.....can't believe they didn't keep you on at the BBC with Top Gear. Their loss, our gain with this channel ;-) Daz, Leicester.
What's stopping me is
1)Lack of sound
2) can't be tuned by you
3)You can carry gas if you burn out in the middle of nowhere ,but you can't carry a charge in the middle of nowhere
The legend that is Rory Trader…
I want an Ioniq5 review
Knowing that hyundai has done a reverse mitsubishi, 8/10 chance that car will be good
@@anhondacivic6541 it sounds promising
Check out Car Scene Korea. He focuses on Hyundai/Kia/Genesis.
A full battery in the time it probably took me to think of and post this comment.
Mad!
When's Rory buying an EV as his full on runaround? 🤓
He's a petrolhead
@@duffydon1741 so am I but I have 2 EVs as the term charged for those of us who appreciate vehicles.
The range of a 2019 Ford Mustang V8 is about 200 miles on a full tank (£80) round town. Add in the £155 annual road tax and a 2 year old price around £40,000 It's quite expensive to buy and run. A 2 year old Tesla model 3 has 50 miles more range, (£16), no road tax and is about £4,000 cheaper....and room in the back for the kids and shopping.
1 in 5 electric car users went back to ICE cars in California
@@Ineverreadreplies they probably realized range anxiety lowers their life expectancy 😅
That''s a high percentage, considering the large financial commitment they made in purchasing an EV, and considering that EV charging in CA is more convenient than it would be for users in most other states.
@@robevans5222 I like ev's but at the moment they make very little sense unless you have a house and invested into solar panels.
@@dragospahontu Totally agree!
Good talk Rory! I have a 2019 Nissan Leaf Plus that I charge on a 50 kW commercial charger(can take a 100 kW) that will take my Leaf+ from 60% to 85-90% in 30 minutes. I then top off at home on 120v charger to the wall plug. With that top off the mileage gauge gives me 260 miles to go on. Truly I don't use this car to it's full potential and with more prolific charging sites available this could get to be closer to the gasoline range comfort of travel but with a clean air, Zero Emissions drive. It's just a different way to travel with an EV but with so many benefits not really realized. Last gallon of gasoline for my mower was last year, not much longer though, electric mower on the way!
I like hearing an engine. I dont like the electric sound :(
That’s fine then, as long as you can hear an engine, carry on using up a finite fuel source that’s throws out poisonous gases.
@@andytunnicliffe7223 Lithium is not infinite either
@@martinmwenda3551finite resources is a justifiable argument, the fact that you don’t like something isn’t.
@@andytunnicliffe7223 what about eFuel and biofiels
I dont want to look at a screen either
Alternatively Nio is looking into battery swapping? It essentially sidesteps the problem of charging, but i can see how that might dramatically drive up infrastructure costs
What's stopping me from getting an EV? Come on Rory try to address the elephant in the room. THEY SOUND LIKE A DISABLED VACCUM CLEANER!
The reality is that noise is actually pollution. Give me little or no noise any day of the week. I just don't get it. Why would you actually *want* noise, in prefernce to quietness? That's weird.
@@Brian-om2hh It is hard to explain but sound makes everything better
@@Brian-om2hh but why would you not want noise. The rumble of an engine is reassuring even if its quiet
@@Brian-om2hh To alert pedestrians?
In Australia, cost- no real subsidies
Availability- less than 0.07% uptake
I want an exhaust in evs 🙂
It'll sound like a spaceship taking off. 😂👍
If what you want is noise, what you need is a microphone pointes directly to the motor and to a big speaker so everybody can "enjoy" the motor noise
What happens to existing EV owners when the batteries upgrade. Will we be able to switch batteries or will we have to go through cost of changing cars?
Nothing "happens". You just carry on using your car like you did before....
The reason is the cost of battery replacement for after 8 years
Only in a Nissan Leaf
i agree... we have a 400km renault zoe, when do we ever need more than 400km in a day? once in a blue moon... forget your geraniums....plug in and charge when you are asleep and dreaming of all ice cars being crushed.
Anyone that's fooled into believing electric cars using current battery technology are good for the environment needs to have a good head scratch, batteries are a killer for the environment and the current rush for these types of vehicles is highly reminiscent of successive UK governments push for us all to drive diesel vehicles from the 1980's onwards. Look how well that worked out...
Have you ever scratched your head about the environmental and health effects of gasoline and diesel.....?!
You are completely wrong. The environmental impact of battery production is absolutely NOTHING compared to the impact of fossil fuels that have to be extracted, refined, transported and finally burnt into the atmosphere. Batteries can also be recycled fully, in contrast to fossil fuels. You are comparing it to the diesel hype but you are forgetting one thing: that argument came from the fossil fuel lobby, exactly like the one you are making now! If you look at the actual peer-reviewed science it's very clear: EVs are already way cleaner AND more efficient than any ICE technology, while the world is making the switch to renewable energy because of hard economics. Battery tech is therefore getting cleaner all the time, as is the energy we can charge into them. With ICE vehicles it is impossible to actually have zero emissions, and no greenwashing can change that.
I totally agree with you and I ordered my model 3 already 😅
0:05 Infrastructure, Charging times, but also weight. EVs are just too damn heavy.
Why does the weight bother you?
@@esm7708 The bigger, the more drag. The heavier, the more tire wear (there's more fine dust particles coming from tires than exhausts)
I did the math, and all energy you retrieve from brake recuperating goes into hauling those batteries. It evens out.
@@STARDRIVE I'd argue that the removal of a gear box reduces tyre wear significantly. Certainly in my ownership of an EV over 18 months I've noticed it's kinder to the tyres/pads/discs than our ICE.
@@esm7708 It´s true we often focus on the battery, but ignore the lighter drivetrain.
But I just googled a rake car. An Opel Corsa that comes in both EV (1530kg) and ICE (955kg).
I don´t argue. I hand you the numbers, so you can see for yourself.
Go ahead, plenty other examples on the interwebs: EV´s are heavier.
Less brake wear makes sense, because of recuperation, but not tyre wear.
Braking, accelerating, cornering... the heavier the car, the more wear.
I doubt your ICE and EV are the same make & model. Likely something else induces the extra tire wear on your ICE. Perhaps even driving style:
An average EV driver drives sparsely, and won´t be seen doing many burnouts ;)
@@STARDRIVE my argument wasn't based on weight change. I completely agree EV based versions of cars weigh more. My argument is based on change of acceleration, which other than cornering, is the main point where tyre wear occurs.
At risk of teaching you to suck eggs EVs accelerate with a smooth, almost linear, rate whilst ICE have a lumpier acceleration rate.
There's more to it than just charging. I am all for alternative energy, and electric can be amazing, but.. you have a few negatives.. cost, charging times, battery lifespan, cold weather performance and range, cost of replacement batteries, and ultimately, what do you do with all the old batteries?
EV's are life less nothing beats that sheer feeling you get listening to that engine roar to life and scream as it revs, to hear those turbos or supercharges spooling up, those perfect exhausts rumble, an EV just cannot replace that, yes they have instant torque but that is just the needle in the hay stack, EVs are just not for all of us and when the day comes where we no longer have that choice and we are all forced to get one, will be a sad day as generations of innovation all comes to an end.
Not got one yet, as miles out of my budget. However, look forward to getting one in 5-10 years.