The Palworld Lawsuit Is Not What You Think
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 сен 2024
- To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/... . You’ll also get 20% off an annual premium subscription. Sponsored by Brilliant.
Nintendo & The Pokemon company made their move.
Sources:
www.404media.c...
www.videogames...
www.videogames...
bellular.games...
automaton-medi...
www.pcgamer.co...
patents.justia...
patents.justia...
x.com/stephent...
www.pocketpair...
x.com/serkanto...
kotaku.com/nin...
To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/BellularNews . You’ll also get 20% off an annual premium subscription. Sponsored by Brilliant.
I haven't actually played them (I will get to them one day) but i was under the impression pokemon was very similar to dragon quest? i mean if pal world can prove Pokémon took artistic inspiration from another game wouldn't that make their whole argument null? Plus this is crazy bad pr for Nintendo, good luck with those switch 2 sales if you take palworld from consumers
Can't they just pull the game from Japan and say "fuck you" to nintendo?
Gizmoplex regarding the use of emulation technologies. In addition, in 2017, Nintendo lost a lawsuit against the video game accessory manufacturer, which
concerned the design of the controller.
Despite legal successes, some of these battles demonstrated the complexity of copyright and patent laws in the video game industry. 1. Patentability of ideas: In a 2017 case, Nintendo lost to a company that had developed a Wil-like control system, with the court ruling that Nintendo's patent was invalid.
2. Copyright infringement: In
2018, a court ruled that Nintendo could not prevent the distribution of ROMs and emulators because fair use law played a role in favor of developers.
3. Trademark disputes: There have been cases where Nintendo has lost legal battles over the use of trademarks by allowing third parties to use similar names for their products. I don't want to flame or start a fight, solely as a gamer with 900+ hours on palworld, I want to debunk this supposed omnipotence of nintendo. Source chatgpt4, Thank you.
i Will say one thing And that is.
this is why we must change or rework copyright laws & patent laws to be much more better for everyone else
nintendo has no right to hit palworld or anyone else with this nonsense it's time we look into reworking these laws for the better or we might see this happening with Nexomon, Monster sanctuary, or etc.
also we should fix the copyright isuses of youtube as well while we've at it
hopeful we can make a change for better this time around
I want to take real action against Nintendo how can I do that I want to sign my name to a petition appear in a court case anything how do I tell Nintendo to back off and make them listen.
Funny how patents are claimed to protect innovation, and yet all they actually do is stifle competition, thus _preventing innovation._
100%.
One of the biggest lies capitalism tells you is that it promotes innovation and competition.
@@LordSiravant Patents are the government, not capitalism.
normie brains: "it's pokemon with guns"
nintendo: "Oh yeah? then we're gonna sue palworld"
normie brains: *surprised pikachu face*
@@LordSiravant How did i know that the people screeching about this lawsuit are just a bunch of ignorant communists?
Way back in the day, fledgling Nintendo was only able to go forward with Donkey Kong (the arcade classic) because they won a legal battle that said that the company who was suing them couldn't patent core game mechanics like jumping. Now they're trying to do the EXACT SAME THING with stuff like "shadows to see your character behind trees" and "Resume notifications when coming back from sleep mode?" What the actual hell Nintendo.
That sleep mode patent especially gets me. Technically you could argue Windows has been "infringing" on that patent since Windows 8, and I'm pretty sure Windows 8 precedes the 3DS.
@@MythrilZenith it be fun to see the judge throw out the case citing this exact lawsuit
What was that line again? "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the corporate monster"? Well, you get what I mean.
They arnt even the first monster catcher game either. Also look at the esrb system. Nintendo tried to take out Sega by saying games are to graphic in a legal court case
@@MythrilZenith The thing I'm not seeing people talk about is that these parents have already been infringed in one way or another by multiple different games. "Capturing creatures in tiny balls" was used by nexomon and world of final fantasy. It begs the question, why didn't Nintendo go after them? I think the answer is that they legit see palworlds as a true future competitor.
Instead of taking lessons from Palworld, Nintendo just takes out the competition. Classic corporate greed.
The lesson they should have taken was people have wanted this game for 30 years and all they release is 2d
Those of us that are anti-corp tried to warn people, but the Nintendo fanboys didn't listen. This is how this company has always been. They didn't "save the industry" in the 80s, they opportunistically tried to enslave it.
Boycott Nintendo.
Sounds like monopoly practice
The funny thing is that this way of seeing it is mostly only on the West.
Most of the people in Japan making comments about this appear to support Nintendo and think that Palworld actually did something that is deserving of being sued for.
I think that is a bit telling since Japanese people don't have much problems with derivative works or fanworks most of the time. So Palworld having such a bad reputation in Japan, their home turf, makes me think that we are not getting the entire story.
I don't think It's Nintendo or the Pokémon Company getting greedy, I think Palworld did something wrong and this lawsuit is a response to that.
What's even more scummy is that if you look into some of those patents, well, they were filed AFTER Palworld came out.
More like after it was unveiled to the public but your point still stands, screw Nintendo.
@@pillowsoft4444 Some were initiated after the international notification.
Others were initiated March 2024, granted in July 2024, now they're suing in September 2024.
They are correct.
if you disagree, check Nintendo's patents for their lawsuit.
well no shit, the game had to exist first or else there would be no patents... the fuck... lol.
@TRVPHAUS They could've patented it when they made the games decades ago. The fact they only chose to file them now is purely for the malicious intent of shutting down Palworld because Nintendo is crying
@@DC... this should be a volition of patient law.
Thats so screwed up to patient things after its all announced.
You shouldn't be able to patient game mechanics as well.
Being able to patent a shadow has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard in my life. How is that even possible? Who is in charge of letting these patents go through… this is insane
Whether it's innovative or not, I can instantly think of games from the 90's and early 2000's that do this exact thing...
They'd usually either draw obscured characters as silhouettes in the faction colour (i.e. a shadow), or they'd dither the obstructions so you could see through them.
The latter being replaced by shaders that prevent geometry from being drawn in the first place, ala Divinity Original Sin.
Even if it's not a viable patent, bulk of these should be utterly invalidated by prior art already.
@@billy65bob One of those other companies should have patented it then. You snooze, you lose.
yeah, if you get a patent or not is practically RNG
do you know why the computer wasn't patented? because the patent office didn't see a possible economic or military use for the technology
I swear, if I have at some point enough money, I am going to try to patent something really obvious and stupid and then go to the press about it so that even an extremely idiotic and corrupt politician has no other choice but to reform it if they don't want to look stupid (because if there is something politicians hate even more than they love money and power, it's looking stupid in front of the public)
this is crazy
can the public do something about this
this is violation of art
Absolutely. There has to be some limit to what can be patented or not, right?
Nintendo is mad that an indie dev showed Pokemon games for the bare-bones lazy shit they've been for a long time now
why would they be mad? They're gettimg all the money it made now lol You either play on their terms or you dont play at all 😂
💯
Nintendo has no control over the games. The part of TPC they own only allows them to make it nintendo exclusive. All the games and their development are handled by gamefreak
Yeeeep. Palworld did vastly more with the formula and a smaller budget than Nintendo has in the last 15 years.
@arkyflame1599 there's no way Nintendo doesn't have any influence over Gamefreak to make a better product.
If they want to slap their brand on it, then they can catch the same flak. Also, it ain't gamefreak suing, it's Nintendo so they can absolutely catch the heat
"Nintendo has never lost a litigation that they started" - well, everything's got a first... though I wouldn't hold my breath.
They have, many times even, just outside Japan.
really hoping this is the first time in japan.
Boycott Nintendo.
It's because they rule Japan. Pocketpair is screwed.
Japan is very corrupt, even though people online like to think Japan is some Utopia.
Software patents are one of the worst things to happen to creativity.
Software patents shouldn't even be a thing. It is literally patenting ideas - the one thing patents were never meant to do. As a programmer, I hate software patents with a passion beacuse they feel like thought-crimes.
@@Xehlwan Indie dev here. I fully agree. The audacity of these companies to patent basic stuff when game design is somewhat iterative at its core is just astounding.
@@bunnybreaker They probably wouldn't hold in court same as all the copyright strikes by major corps legal under fair use. But who has a billion dollars to fight it?
Limitations are innovating. Reminder how limits forced early games do impossible things.
@@x149te Ps1 games at end of life were like 10x better than at start with same hardware
We had waited YEARS for someone to make "Pokemon, but better!", despite knowing full well that Nintendo has no love for anything they can't exploit...
Win or lose, this lawsuit will end up losing Nintendo A TON of fan goodwill. NOBODY likes a patent troll.
why would nintendo care they will earn millions then have another tool to use on another game company. Fans don't mean a thing to Nintendo and havn't done for decades
That’s the thing.
Nobody who cares about N’s actions bought their stuff anyway.
Acting like scum has been their MO for a long time already.
@@Volfur2251 You know, people once said they about EA and now look.
This comment Will pop up every single time nintendo does something
Nintendo won't lose fan Goodwill
Nintendo fans Will Buy every product Even if the Game is 7 years old and it's still full price.
And everyone knows about the recent low Quality Pokémon games ,despite being a Mess these games are on the top sellers and each one has it's own dlc
I have a friend that really likes the franchise and despite knowing the flaws he still got the copies and the dlc.
Consumers allow this and will keep letting this happen sadly.
On the next months everyone Will forget that this happened after a new Game drops or a new preview of an announced Game is shown.
This situation Will hurt rpgs in general
@@Volfur2251 no king rules forever, maybe its like you say on the short term, however eventually you will make too many enemies until there is no going back.
I hope Bandai sues Nintendo for patent infringement for same thing
@@szymonlxl6004 this will never fly in America. We have something called freedom and IP laws I hope the court case takes place in America
@@BargerClan do we though? Disney pull A lot of levers here in the U.S. too. Just look at those scumbags trying to dismiss the lady who died to a peanut allergy at one of their partner restaurants. If the PR hadn't wrecked them they probably would have continue with that case. I worked in hotel design for a couple years and disney was that client that always got their way. Shit is terrible. Money talks.
@@ehwick8175 And WotC sending Pinkertons to someone's house to steal their purchased property.
@@BargerClan it has a better chance of passing in the US then in japan lmao
@@BargerClan Where do you think Warner Brothers is based? Or EA, which has a patent on the Mass Effect dialogue wheel? We literally do the same shit. Hell, Japan probably got this system from us.
Ever since Nintendo tried to patent Tears of the Kingdom's ultra hand mechanics, this lawsuit shouldn't be that much of a surprise to anyone, but it's still a shame to see how low a company could get just to prevent a potential competitor (One that's not even worth a fraction of their total net worth) become any larger because their own product in Pokémon is so lacking in many areas nowadays.
Nintendo trying to Sue Palworld, not because of their designs through a copyright infringement, but over a patent of their game mechanics is absolutely abhorrent and if they win, it could start the doom of the industry and games as a form of interpret creation itself.
The idea that a corporation could take a mere idea or concept of a mechanic and patent it so that only they could profit and use it in their games is so inherently greedy and cruel to the creation of art itself that I can't even fathom how someone could even justify this.
Although given this is Nintendo, I don't think we should be shocked that they could stoop this low.
it's amazing that anything can exist at all, everything is built on and iteration of something earlier. even Pokemon can be questioned under "Cold Bussnies". something needs to happen to Nintendo however the Nintendo fans are to fanboy to ever boycot. it really feels like Nintendo won the "Gaming War" by creating it's own ecosystem with console and games
Ah gotta love late stage capitalism
@Hurricayne92 these games wouldn't even exist without capitalism, we'd be starving as your 8th collective farm plan failed so we have to purge again
@@Hurricayne92 Corporatism.
Boycott Nintendo.
This is the sad part of legal battles. Its probably cheaper to settle rather than string out litigation for years and end up losing anyway. Justice is a myth in the corporate world.
This is less a 'end up losing anyway' situation and more a draw things out until the opponent can't fight anymore, then legally right and wrong don't matter. The only realistic trick I could see coming is leveraging Sony power against Nintendo to hold out through the stalemate Nintendo wants in a bid to weaken Nintendo's position so Sony can elbow in to the space (and build up some of their lost goodwill). Its a game of chess where Palworld is a nuetral pawn and their ownly hope is to beg a side to take them in.
I would also bet if Sony comes out and says they are supporting Palworld that Nintendo drops the lawsuite then and there because they want the threat of their patents to cow lesser competition, but know if anyone manages to get to the point of calling their bluff that they lose that portion of their legal arsenal permanently.
The one with the deepest pockets will win
@@thehob3836 From what I've heard, Microsoft is also in support of Palworld/Pocketpair, so they might get involved as well.
What's the cheapest they could get a lawyer team on commission and just have them deal with it in the background like what Nintendo and all the big corpos do?
@@Acesahn Its not the cheapest they need, they will need people with the appropriate know-how to try to break apart every delaying tactic that would be put in place AND be able to apropriately beat out the arguments of people so skilled at their jobs they'd be able to make you sympathize with (insert appropriate hated individual to strengthen metaphor for you personally).
To add another metaphor, its a tug of war that ends in a knife fight, and they can't lose either.
Remember kids: *Anything you can do that makes nintendo less money is always morally correct*
It's alsoo morally right for Nintendo to sue them 🥰🥰
@@jkd610 It's not. Atleast not for the reason they are suing.
@@tobiasschaffler1498 Whatever the reason they are suing, it's always morally right!
"Piracy is morally correct....Unless it's not Nintendo. OTHER CORPORATIONS DO NOTHING WRONG!"
-Nintendo Haters
@@MegaDude10 This has nothing to do with piracy. The patents they are suing them over shouldn't have been granted to Nintendo, as they aren't protecting a new or special idea, but a concept that's already in use, and thus making the patent itself illegal.
my age, I will permanently know Nintendo as legal hawks. I don't want to remember anything they do anymore. They've permanently damaged their reputation to me.
True but Microsoft and Sony do the same thing. Microsoft absorbs studios and fires all their artists. Sony does the same thing that Microsoft and Nintendo do, its not a Nintendo thing only.
@@AshnSilvercorp Rain World Max Karma
I had no idea this was about patents that have such broad and general use in the industry. This is gross. Disgusting.
Rich gotta rich. 💪😎✌️ And the wealthiest always win. ALWAYS.
"Protecting your concepts is gross and disgusting!"
- communists 2024
@@RUclipsDweller8008 not sure why you are trying to flatter the guy with that title, but here's what actually happens:
thousands of creative minds have countless of great ideas every day.
one of them is some game designer that's employed at nintendo.
he comes up with a concept inspired by what he has seen in other games.
as he is an employee of course he doesn't give a shit about patents - they never played a role in his motivation as he wouldn't be the one to benefit from them anyway.
some business guy at nintendo sees the designer's concept and turns it into a broad patent that turns out to be a common application all sorts of games could and already do benefit from.
now everyone else is fucked for no reason.
> Protecting your concepts
how silly can you possibly be?
ideas are nothing special that's worthy of protection - only implementations (talented executions of ideas) are to be protected.
@@RUclipsDweller8008"
"communism is when people are free to build upon other people's ideas and innovate.
Capitalism is when government protects a vague mechanic or concept of a multibilliom company so that smaller companies wither out"
-RUclips neckbeard, 2024
Ok let me go with communism then
@@RUclipsDweller8008 It's not about protecting your concept, it's only about killing creativity in your own field. Calling someone a communist for calling out unfair competition is ridiculous
Nintendo can't sleep well at night knowing some 7 year old child is humming the Mario overworld theme without their permission out there, somewhere.
I am very concerned now, half a year ago i had an interaction with an ATM that accepted my inputs instantly (withdraw - select amount - 4 digit pin - enter) each time a button was pressed, the thing gave off a beep. And on that fateful day i subconciously made a machine designed for financial transactions play the intro to the Super Mario Stage 1-1 theme 😅
@@bunnyfist4697 @Nintendo
GET HIM!!!!!
Patent and copyright law has gotten to the point it can be weaponized against smaller entities and is in need of a much needed change. That's likely not gonna happen, but not giving them money would work, eventually.
The wealthy have full control. They can also pay off judges, prosecutors, lawmakers, etc. And if they DON'T play ball, it's pretty easy to threaten families, livelihoods, etc.
TL;DR VERSION = Neintendon't will *win*. Again. As always.
@@trelard Despite me not really being on the side of Pocketpair either, I don't think people in comments here are grasping that this is bigger than the video games. It's about the potential media empire.
Nintendo knows it can't win on its designs. Pals are legally distinct. Gross in itself, but I digress. If it could, they would.
But Nintendo doesn't care about the games or even the mechanics of the games. Millions of folks who don't follow gaming news and play Pokémon now don't know what "Palworld" is if just because it's not on the Switch or phones. And Pokémon nostalgia works on many older fans. Me included.
But it's not gonna work on younger players who don't have that nostalgia.
If Palworld starts producing an anime...and a movie...and merchandise...and a TCG...and so on, then TPC would actually have a competitor, because you _would_ have customers picking between Lucario and Anubis dolls. Verdash and Cinderace keychains.
Nintendo gives _no_ effs about the game. But "Palworld Entertainment" based off of Pals lifted from their own designs?
Yeah, Nintendo is gonna snuff that.
It's not gonna affect the industry. Everyone knows Nintendo wouldn't care as long as the designs were unique. It's why Digimon or Yokai Watch wasn't ever contested.
They just now know Nintendo will do underhanded leverage if you try to skirt around and use their IP by being legally distinct.
Both companies are gross here. But I don't really care what happens, because the industry knows what's really going on.
that's been a thing for ages, there is a video by secret galaxy here on youtube talking about the history of macross franchise in the west and how HarmonyGold was basically just abusing the law for 30 years.
"Weaponized" lmao
Not letting people steal your stuff is "weaponizing" the law, got it.
Another example of a great idea in theory that has slowly been corrupted into a much less good thing than it should be. Patent and copyright protection should be no means go away, but it really needs to be narrowed and pruned back.
And on a related note, "fair use" is what needs serious strengthening.
Does Pokémon let you kill and eat them? Is there a human shagging one? Is Pokémon a survival game? What of Digimon, a creature battler? Monster Rancher? Mobile Phone Monsters? Huntix?
If Nintendo wins, it means they win based purely on "We did it first". And "It's traced!" so is Deadpool, so is a number of designs. Every anime protagonist has similar hair and skin, some share voice actors, does that mean they're clones? Silver, Shadow and Sonic share designs, they the same?
If they win, that implies EVERYONE, EVER, can be sued. This isn't a lawsuit, this is a whiny little spoiled brat stomping their feet until it gets its way. Which is bold given most of their games are the same thing, they have bad public opinion, and they are really pushing their luck doing what they do.
It doesn't have to be an exact copy to infringe on Nintendo's patent.
What you mention seems to be more about artistic ideas, which are protected by copyright. That's not what Nintendo and TPCI are suing for, because they don't think they have a shot with that sort of lawsuit.
Rather than monster designs, what they attack via a patent lawsuit is a certain technical process that has been officially registered as protectable. It doesn't matter, therefore, if another game that is accused of infringement is a creature collector, or a survival game. All that matters is that it has a mechanism whereby you can use a set of inputs to aim and throw an object that captures monsters in the open field with a probability calc in one mode and summons monsters to fight in another. As long as a game has that technical mechanism, Nintendo would argue that it's an infringement of their patent.
Of course, this comes with its own impact on creativity and innovation, especially since game developers still do draw from many sources of inspiration, but it's important to distinguish what is being sued for here from an infringement of copyright.
@@SentientSpaceApple And that’s why it’s stupid. It means that Nintendo has effectively banned creature-collecting games apart from Pokémon.
Yup. Welcome to corporate legal cases. Ain’t nothing new, and anime specifically is lousy with cases based on what you’re saying. Look at history of battletech right.
@@kirbythegameryt9364yup, only thing we can do is vote with our wallets, and not support them, they may be able to legally bully the industry, but were their bread and butter at the end of the day.
Too bad so many Nintendo fans are so rabid and prob celebrating this move.
So theorhetically we'll all reach a point where every single kind of game mechanic is patented by someone or something and nobody will ever be able to make games again because they're "Too similar" or "It's using our patent" Everybody will be too afraid to innovate due to fear of getting sued into oblivion. Yeah fuck this planet. I'm out.
Reminder that you don't hate nintendo enough
Man I've been saying for years that there's alot of horrible shit they do behind that cuddly image. Business wise they are ruthless and cutthroat as it gets
"Who cares, just let people enjoy games man"
enjoy the lawsuit people, I've hated Nintendo for at least a decade and I'm getting tired of being ostracized because I want the industry to be less shit
@@ChemySh And I like modern gaming as a whole, no matter what company. and I've always wanted to see this colonial kid stuff go R rated.
I do
reminder that youll all complain about this, but you will also keep throwing your money at them. Frankly, I point the finger at all of you.
Almost all the big gaming companies nowadays are utterly disgusting.
I say "almost" because that's just the ones I know about. But there could be one out there that's not disgusting. I doubt it though.
sony and nintendo are horrible companies now a days, with microsoft being fairy decent. hell valve are the only one of the big 4 that arnt cunts to there fans constantly. =|
*All of the big companies nowadays are utterly disgusting.
Fixed it for you.
Reminder to everyone that fromsoft is still cool.
@@nomisspell Now one might ask if they are "big"...
Those patents sound like in the early days of the games industry when companies thought they could copyright something as broad as the idea of an 'fps'
The crazy taxi arrow and minigames when loading was a thing too
@@meneldal Both Patents that were filed by Japanese companies I should point out
@@firehedgehog1446
Sounds like out of all the things Japan does right, patents is *not* one of them...
@@Operational117 If Nintendo wins this lawsuit & indeed starts going on a Patent warpath, they're gonna have a very hard time against non-Japanese companies that supposedly violated their half-assed "Patent".
Such as Snail Games who owns the IP for Ark: Survival evolved which would count as infringing upon this Patent since it does have mechanic of catching & taiming wild creatures, much like Pokemon. And Snail Games is based out of China, not Japan
The gaming industry is going full on monopoly right now.
Not a single gamer is safe from these businesses controlling how we entertain ourselves in our own homes. This is disgusting.
Free market: Competition is good for innovation and growth!
Patent laws: Let me introduce myself.
tbf, with no patents at all we wouldn't get innovation either
there needs to be a middle ground
after all without them you can literally 1 to 1 copy for example a mechanical design and only change the brand (yes, Copyright doesn't protect this); so why would go and invent this, offsetting RnD costs takes a few years after all (unlike setting up a production chain for an existing product)
but software patents in specific are stupid
The other guy has a point. With no copyright or patent laws, corporations can just steal or copy other people with few or no differences and nothing can be done about it because there is no copyright. But having draconic copyright and patent laws stifles creativity by ensuring only one company can do a thing.
@@mariustan9275 but that's where we develop a genre, imagine if patent were so draconian, we literally can't have FPS, RTS, VN, etc... because there's actually so many game mechanics that can be patented between so many similar games.
Nintendo wont change unless they are hurt where it counts, a change in law or their profits
so literally nothing will ever going to change
They have too many fans who just do not give a damn about the terrible business Nintendo operates on.
@@frankmckenneth9254 When I was a kid I stole an Apple.
As an adult I own my own shop now.
But I can't call the police anymore because I once stole an apple...
But but Pokemon stole too... Wahh Wah
Boycott Nintendo.
Both
This is basically like a slapp suit, its a large, powerful company trying to silence a smaller one. It doesn't care about actually winning, it just wants to crush possible competition and has the money to throw around to try and do so.
Correct.
100% WRONG! the bully is pocketpair!
Using Nintendo patents without their permission!!
Hope Nintendo wins🥰🥰
@@jkd610 Bullies pick on the small and weak, Nintendo is the bully, and you're the fool.
@@jkd610 Nintendo got that patent after months after Palworld was already out and in the market, it wont be upheld.
@@jkd610 how's the boot taste?
Lmao, Im gonna continue to support Palworld. One of the reasons I bought it to begin with was because it did what Pokémon REFUSED to do... INNOVATE!!
Exactly
You could not care less about "innovation."
How does allowing a company to rip off your ideas stimulate "innovation"?
@@RUclipsDweller8008 It's not a ripoff because they created a superior product that nintendo doesn't offer. Imagine simping for a corpo for free, you're pathetic.
@@Tallowy1
>"pokemon with guns"
>"not a rip-off"
>"Anyone who doesn't agree with stealing from people must be a Nintendo simp!"
@@RUclipsDweller8008 You realize Pokemon is NOT suing based on the idea of Pokemon, right? This alone PROVES that Pocketpair did not steal from Nintendo, or it would be the very thing they sued for. They've picked apart the code and looked for the tiniest thing they could to sue off of. Not anything that any person will recognize as a reason to sue Palworld.
The patent for "throwing a item to catch a monster" as well as a patent for "virtual storage" were submitted in May after Palworld had launched and been passed in September 2024. The fact they didn't sue them on copyright and trademark shows that they were just distinct enough to be considered unique. This truly goes to show Nintendo's anti-competitive practices. The fact that the patents are so vague and widely used without any attempt to enforce them previously should be grounds for dismissal of the case. If anything Pocketpair is probably scared of Nintendo dragging out litigation until they collapsed financially witch is very common in the US.
The patent for "throwing a item to catch a monster" as well as a patent for "virtual storage"
So fishing also get hitted. IE throw a bait to catch a monster.
Fish are stored in virtual storage...
Monster are vague terms for anything.
@@silverware1191 wait until a lot of games have virtual storage and boom, now they are commiting pattent infringement
Plenty of other Pokemon ripoffs don't infringe.
The "aiming and throwing a ball to capture or summon a monster" patent was a later development of an earlier patent filed in 2021, which might be what they're depending on here-not sure if Japan recognises any retroactive infringement. (Of course, that might not be the patent Nintendo is suing for, but it's one we can see a possible connection for.) Haven't looked into the "virtual storage" one, but the "aiming and throwing" one specifies alternative modes for summoning AND catching, open-world (not battle) use as well as a probability calculation before the catching, which potentially narrows its scope a lot.
Of course we've still got the wider issue of whether software patents should be allowed though, but regardless of whether Nintendo wins or loses here, it probably won't affect the general practice of filing software patents in Japan, other than companies potentially being on guard to make their scope more narrow, well-defined and watertight if Nintendo loses. Of course, there might be a chilling effect on companies' willingness to litigate said patents too (but companies generally try to avoid litigation much of the time anyway unless they stand to gain something big).
@@SentientSpaceApple Thanks to the new patent, they all infringe now.
Nintendo MUST NOT win this. If they do - it will make a terrible precedent that will literally destroy gaming industry. That's how serious this situation is and I'm not joking.
Agreed. I don't think people actually realize the serious consequences this will have.
It is morally right to pirate anything the Pokémon company makes
Oh Nintendo absolutely see PocketPair and Palworld as a threat and major rival. Not in the normal sense either. This is a rival that's literally in the same city as them, growing in popularity in their backyard that they an just go out and take measure of. They see the same path of potential for Palworld as what they saw for Pokemon. Right now it's just a spark. A spark that could cause a massive wildfire of popularity to truly be a sticky rival to Pokemon. And they want to stamp that out.
This is bleeding tactic. It has nothing to do with protecting the image of Pokemon or literally anything. Like you said, this is business. And as a business, they don't want rivals for their most profitable IP. Palworld threatens the bottom line. There is no version of this where Nintendo comes out looking clean. No matter what, they will accumulate yet another stain upon their name. Truly, they never lost their Yakuza roots.
Ironically it's like having all your maxed-level base pals on attack aggressively to all use their strongest moves when a level 2 kattivia walks by...
When it is just an indie company, they would not give a shit, but PocketPair was trying to expand IP with Sony, that is totally a different story.
Ah yes the game that hasn't been irrelevant for months and can't come up with original ideas is something they're scared off
@@KgEclispe252 since when has nintendon't come out with 'original' ideas? stUPId argument as we are seeing the thousandth zeldamariosonicetcetcetc
@@sean7082 Well they have to you know. Palworld is a buy-to-play game and not some bloated microtransaction "live-service" hell that bills itself f2p while feeding off of credit card warriors. The massive stack of money they got won't last forever and why not continue something that was insanely successful?
Everything is a copy of something, wish they could cut this crap out. Music, gaming, storywise, codes and so forth
It worries me how atrocious the Japanese legal system is
It's not likely to change anytime soon, Japan is stuck in so many of its a$$ backwards ways
They really just need to shorten the patent time length. 20 years is way too long, it prevents any innovation in the field and by the time it expires, something else with likely have made it obsolete anyway. For anything digital it should be 5 years, max.
5 years for software seems more than reasonable.
Never, ever, EVER say that copyright and patent laws, from ANY country, are a good thing. It can be all fun and games, or can be as pressing as insulin.
Id argue to issue isn't patents so much as the legal system being able to be weaponized due to monetary costs. A game that died due to court was Friday the 13th
Copyright and patent laws are necessary. Software copyright and more importantly software patents... that's a different question.
The alternative to patents is companies just hoarding knowledge for as long as they can. Patents are a way to have public access to sufficiently detailed descriptions of inventions forever for the price of giving the patent owner temporary protection.
@@tirex3673 "forever" No, patents are not "forever", they expired automatically after a time. They are time limited, and I think they're even more time limited than trademarks.
What are you talking, without copyright laws this exact crap would be the norm.
Small creator making something? Big corpo steals it, publishes faster, and to a bigger audience until it will be perceived as theirs. Fast forward, only people with money are able to 'create' things.
Even if nintendo don't win they'll be sapping resources from pocket pair, a much smaller company to fight it in court which will likely end up killing the game anyway.
It would be a shame if the game dies as a result. It's a good game that did something unique within the monster catcher space.
Patent fishing like this sucks.
This is a blatant 'bleed them' strategy where Nintendo has practiacally limitless money to throw at this case just to essentially bankrupt Pocketpair or force them into a settlement.
I don't think its about winning or losing. It's about crushing a rival before they they grow out of control. Whatever they are suing over is probably so vague and such an industry and/or genre standard that effectively pointless and invalid. But the point is to bleed PocketPair.
Palworlds is teaming up with sony. So sony vs nintendo fight
If i heard right
Don't forget Microsoft is also backing them too with having them on their platform. This battle is for the sake of the industry at this point.
@@Sparticulous Get your popcorn ready and make a backup of Palworld, just in case
We should not just be upset at Nintendo for doing this. We should be furious that things like this are legal in the first place.
Absolutely. Copyrighting your code is fine, but patenting an idea should be illegal.
yes and no u don't want things stealing from u but theres a difference between stealing and inspiration. also idk what the culture is in Japan so im not going to get angry at them based on western culture
@@Nytrusdeathcyde you can't steal ideas because physical objects are limited in ways that idea's are not. For example you can steal someone's stick to spear fish but you can not steal the idea of spear fishing you can only use it or copy it.
"How dare companies protect their own ideas!"
Called lawfare. Only way to get rid of it isn't specific laws against it but fundamental changes to the legal process that remove the money cannon from the equation. At least in the US, nationalizing the only element of the legal system that isn't already, lawyers, would go a long way toward stopping this kind of thing. I get the impression we'd see a lot less of this garbage if corporations were required to use public representation and couldn't count on financial attrition of the opposition. Conversely, smaller entities that have a claim against a juggernaut wouldn't be at a disadvantage from the start.
The thing is that the people who were saying that the models matched lied, the guy who showcased it said he scaled them up to match them up because he didn't like palworld.
Some of the models are still very, very close in design. However, if it was enough to file a lawsuit on Nintendo would have done so rather than filing over patents.
@@JaidynReiman on design sure, but there is only so many ways you can twist and conform animal esk creatures without eventually getting close. Pokémon themselves are at fault of the samething with dragon quest. Nintendo is truly just being bitter and this form of bad faith competition is bad for industry.
If Nintendo is claiming --copyright-- patent (there, I changed it for the person who can't get over it) over the concept of throwing a ball-like trap at a creature to entrap it and return it to you, then they should really research the pastime of "fishing" -- where you throw a hook attached to a ball-like floater (aka, the trap) at a fish (aka the creature) to hook (ensnare) it and reel it in (return it to you). The first page of results for a fishing float are mostly little red and white balls, just like Pokeballs -- except they've looked like that and fishing has worked like that for longer than anyone at Nintendo has even been alive.
The thing about that stuff... These patents have a shelf life of 15 years with no option for renewal.
So you could in theory present Nintendo's pokemon games from 1996 to 2009 as prior art to invalidate that specific patent - which would be deliciously ironic.
They're not claiming copyright.
@SentientSpaceApple So? That's just semantics, it works either way.
@@gabrielc7861 It's not just semantics-there are different doctrinal underpinnings behind different types of intellectual property, and what cause of action you proceed under determines how you conduct your claim. Patents are intended to be for inventions and technical processes, while copyright protects ideas and artistic works. Patents are also officially registered and last for 20 years, while copyrights are unregistered, last a lot longer, and subsist in the work as soon as it's been created.
Game design patents, and, on a wider scale, software patents, have their own issues, of course, which are separate from the issue of a company litigiously weaponising copyright against fans and competitors.
@jxwong_3982 Space apple has been attacking every comment that said that Nintendo was being evil with horrible arguments. And the great rebuttal that he used this time was complaining about OP saying copyright instead of patent.
Nintendo is suing palworld for patents that didn't exist at the time of palworld's release.... Nintendo is speedrunning to be the greediest and scummiest game company at this point.
We don't actually know what the patents are yet. Even Pocketpair doesn't know yet. I doubt it would be from things they've filed this year if they have anything from earlier that they could dip into instead, which they undoubtedly do. Still, the fact that they've patented flying mounts and elemental weaknesses this year alone is... um. Well, it certainly is.
Patent is from 22.06.2023, Palworld release is from 19.01.2024 so patent was 6 months ahead of game. At that time Palworld already must have all core systems ready. I would like to call this patent corporate spying from Nintendo...
@MediaMunkee they patented "elemental weaknesses" as a system like they use in Pokémon? So .... basically, no one in Japan can play Rock, Paper Scissors ever again without paying Nintendo? Because what is that elemental weakness system but effectively Rock Paper Scissors with more options?
Nintendo is proof there is no justice in the courts lol. There is only money to be made.
@@Thagrynor There's no reasonable way it should hold up. "Elemental weaknesses" are pretty ubiquitous in gaming. You can find them virtually everywhere. Megaman. Final Fantasy. Sonic had them at one point technically. Deep Rock Galactic has them. Most every RPG has them, including Baldur's Gate 3 and Dungeons and Dragons as a whole. Monster Hunter. These are things that are just off the top of my head, there are certainly many more games of wildly different genres and variety that has "elemental weaknesses" in them. It would be incredibly stupid to think it should remotely come close to viability.
Any US or European court would look at this and go "Why didn't you sue a year ago when the game first came out?" This is an atrocity.
Because the game came out in January of this year, not last year. Just my guess.
Um, no, there's nothing saying that companies cannot sit back for a bit and prepare their cases. Especially whilst damages accrue. Sure, you can't wait a decade, but it isn't as though one must instigate legal action the very moment something is launched. No one is omniscient. Not even Neintendon't.
@Novastar.SaberCombat um yes there is brainless, it's called the statute of limitations
@@syndan9245 Yes, hence why Novastar clearly said you can't wait a decade. However, you do have to be able to prove your case first before filing a lawsuit.
@@syndan9245The statute of limitations isn‘t a year.
That patent system needs reform.
That will never happen. The wealthy would never permit it.
As if capitalist corporations would let that happen
@@spence6195 Those same capitalist corporations have nothing when developers start taking their ideas more blatantly and run development from literally any other country on earth in which US or Japanese patent law has no impact or influence and no power structure through which to be enforced.
It's working fine.
@@SentientSpaceApple Are you Nintendo?
The most frustrating thing about this whole ordeal is Palword has very little in common with Pokemon. Its not even the same genre. Pokemon is a JRPG. Palworld is a survival sandbox. Its got more in common with Ark Survival Evolved. I swear. Squeenix should just sue the shit out of nintendo for creating pokemon. These copyright laws need a whole sale update. They are not compatible with the modern day where the internet exist and more and more people have access to powerful creation tools.
Would make more sense of Sega to, as the current owners of Atlus.
Pokemon is pretty heavily derived from Atlus' Megami Tensei, just with animal chimeras instead of creatures of myth.
でも実際にスクエニは任天堂を訴訟してないわけだろ？
任天堂も訴訟なんて滅多に起こさないわけだし、それが今回起こしたことでニュースになっている。
それに日本では任天堂を支持する声が多数。
それがどういう事かわからないか？
Well then, I guess Toei and Bandai should sue Nintendo, because DIGIMON WAS FIRST. If this is where they're going with this, then Toei and Bandai have every right to sue Nintendo for Infringement on their Patent of fictional monster companions.
@@Gam3Junkie7 then atlus would sue both of them because smt was from the 80s way before both
Sorry I hate to break this to you Digimon was not the first collect the creature game it was Pokemon
@@MistyDarka shin megami tensei beats both by releasing in late 1980s so your wrong
@@dravenmartinez6311 all right I was wrong 😔 I did not know that information I was not informed I'm absolutely sorry about that
Patent law is horse manure and holds back innovation and competition.
"Anti trust law suit anyone?" said the european parliament.
Patents should not be a thing in software (it shouldn't be a thing period, but I digress).
There's already license in the code and copyright/trademark for assets, if they can achieve the same effect with a different code that should absolutely not stand legal ground.
Almost all code people learn nowadays is shit smart ppl figured out years ago, and we basically reuse their ideas to make new stuff, copyrighting code never made sense to me
@@halinaqi2194 Copyrighting the code is fine.
The problem is the patents: in the case of software they by and large just patent math.
And math is meant to be explicitly excluded from being patentable.
It should be noted that the "you can't patent the idea of an FPS" issue was actually not resolved until Westwood sued Blizzard over the idea of an RTS when the entire genre effectively consisted of Command and Conquer, Warcraft 1, and Dune 2.
Never buying another Nintendo's product in my life again.
絶対買うなよ。😆
You can always just buy used Nintendo products. You still get the games and Nintendo doesn't get anything, I think that's completely fine.
Take a break Sony, Microsoft and Ubisoft… it’s my turn to take an L
-Nintendo, probably.
Nintendo undefeated in Japan... Legal wise. 100% win rate when they sue.
@@QuantumNovaGood lad. Service Miyamoto harder! 😂
@@QuantumNova There is always a first time
"Nintendo is taking an L by suing a company that it will more than likely win against."
- communist normie 2024
@@Fire_of756 not this time
Tbh this case really exposes the evil side of nintendo that the fans dont want to see
Nintendo is NOT your friendq
No companies are your friends. They are in it for the purpose of making a profit.
At the same time, video games wouldn't even exist to begin with if there weren't people who were willing to buy them. Same thing as film and TV. All these companies are in it for profit, but they make this content because people are interested in buying said content, and if there wasn't profit motivation involved these kinds of products never would have existed to begin with.
@@JaidynReiman
Maybe today they aren't. Used to be different. Look up the development of Pokemon Gold & Silver.
Remember Gary Bowser.
Nintendo practices defacto human slavery.
Defending your patents is not evil.
@@SentientSpaceApple
>It's the law, so it's moral!
Midwife take. Slavery is legal still in some countries around the world. Abortion is illegal in some states of America. So and so forth, so is legality = morality the hill you want to die on?
Also, the patent is incredibly vague and was finalized long after Palworld and even longer after Craftopia. It literally was made simply to be weaponized against any potential competitors. But hey, you're not a gamer, keep intruding on communities you don't belong to and ruining them, what do you care?
Absolute scumbag Nintendo patenting some basic-ass mechanics and then only suing when another company puts out a game that actually challenges them. Because why compete when you can just sue any legitimate competitors out of your niche and then continue putting out low-effort slop unchallenged.
And in a single move, Nintendo dethroned Blizzard, EA, Microsoft, as the scummiest and most having video game company.
If this lawsuit succeeds then I am strongly considering never paying for another nintendo product in my life. I don't want my purchases to fund this kind of legal intimidation.
Weird it took you this long, Nintendo was a scummy company for a long time now.
Nintendo won't notice.
Unfortunately, they've already essentially succeeded on a patent lawsuit like this one a few years ago, if you look up their lawsuit against Colopl. There's also been a fair bit of said legal intimidation going back years. So this sort of thing (or their general litigious attitude) can hardly be said to be new developments.
Nintendo will succeed, and it's not at all what this video makes it out to be.
I think it's kinda pathetic of you to say " If it succeeds", like they are only guilty if they win. "Look I know I tried to stab you 500 times and have constantly been expressing the intent to kill you but I've never succeeded so you can't get mad"
If ya buy Pokemon Z: Legends.... ya'll the problem.... send a message... money is their only language.
I've not bought a "new" Pokémon game since X/Y. I didn't consider Brilliant Diamond "new," more of a bastardization of the Diamond/Pearl I knew during the DS.
When people vote with their dollars, the people who have the most dollars get the most votes. Relying on market solutions to curb corporate abuse will never work. Legal reform is needed.
If i want to play a pokemon game nowdays i will look for fan games or just download a rom
@@vengefuldevil5195 gamers usually have a bad track record of boycotting Nintendo; especially with Pokemon
Remember how mad everyone got with how shoddy of a product sword and shield was but it made record breaking sales?
way ahead of you brother, i havent bought a nintendo product new since the snes was a thing, and havent bought them used since the gamecube.
Nintendo and TPC have failed to protect the patent they are using to sue Pocketpair over Palworld. The game "TemTem" exists, and hasn't been harassed by TPC or Nintendo, despite being the same exact style of game. The only difference? It's cards instead of balls or spheres. The patent however, describes the mechanics, not a ball or sphere, therefore TemTem could be referenced as a failure of defending their patent prior to suing Pocketpair. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't that mean that the patent could be null and void?
No. That is only a trademark thing. Pretty sure you can selectively enforce your patents as much as you want.
@@Raio_Verusia
Temtem is not very good and highly niche and nowhere near a threat. That's why Nintendo isn't going after them.
If you've read the patent you should realize the mechanics being described are of the Legends Arceus catch system and not one that describes Temtem.
That's the copyright law of USA, not japan.
Japan has very different copyright laws, and are more restrictive and tyrannical.
@@Raio_Verusia Temtem is not made by a Japanese company, unlike Palworld. Nintendo is suing using their local Japanese patent in a Japanese court which is very different to trying to sue an EU company over EU patents in a Spain-ish court.
Also on top of that, Temtem barely has 300 players, ended all forms of development and closed even their in-game store. The game is completely dead and forgotten and probably managed to get less than a percent of sales and global attention compared to Palworld. An American carmaker wouldn't lose their patent to an engine design if some carmaker in North Korea made 1,000 of them and sold them to China.
Not that the specifics matter because this isn't a trademark case either way and Nintendo is happy to bankrupt people in court rather than actually win their point. Which is why they applied for the patents to begin with.
I personally don't think nintendo is threatened by the game. It's threatened by it's potential to sell merch. Nintendo pretty much dominates that with their pokemon plushes but Palworld could very much start selling their own merch and perhaps they don't want to see Pikachu plushes right next to Grizzbolt plushes being on shelves and want to avoid havign to deal with this situation by simply removing the game from existance... Because if there's no game, there is no merch either.
Well maybe if Nintendo wasn't getting some insane margins on their plushies they wouldn't really be at risk of losing much, but Pals could easily undercut them
Piracy is moral if it’s Nintendo
If they spent half the time they do suing fans making a good pokémon game, palworld wouldn't exist.
Luckily, Craftopia had the ball throwing mechanic in 2020, a year before the Nintendo patent.
... Did they patent it?"
@@RUclipsDweller8008they don’t need to. Prior art
@@HydratedBeans that doesn't apply to patents 🤦🤦🤦 we're not talking about copyright here...
@@xiuxiu1108 it’s funny you use the face palm when you don’t know what you’re talking about. Prior Art is a patent law term.
@@HydratedBeans Doesn't exist in japan tho...
Nintendo, as far as I'm concerned, have lost all credibility with me, as a game company, because of this suit (and many others). In the mid 1980s Nintendo brought gaming back from the literal landfill that Atari had put it in, and they were heralded as the saviors of gaming. Ironic that now they are taking steps which could destroy gaming all over again, this time for good.
Being allowed to patent game mechanics, and then use that to destroy competition is not only one of the scummiest things you can do (goes right up there with suing people for using certain words, like "scrolls"... BETHESDA), but it probably constitutes a monopoly in some fashion, because there are only a set number of ways you can make a game. Today, it's throwing a ball to catch a monster. Tomorrow, it could be parkour mechanics or worse.
This is blatant patent abuse, as far as I'm concerned, and if they win, it gives every other game company the legal precedent to do exactly the same thing. Innovation will cease, indie devs won't be able to create new games, and all the power of the gaming industry will be in the hands of a few select, multi-million-dollar companies that couldn't care less about their customers if they tried.
Remember that Tim Langdell terrorised game makers and publishers for using the word "Edge" in games in the US (such as SoulEdge becoming SoulCaliber) until he tried to take on EA over "Mirror's Edge" and lost the trademark to "Edge" in gaming that he was using to terrorise the devs and publishers.
Hopefully this get thrown out of court as Palworld existing as Prior Art, as Nintendo didn't apply for the patent during the development of Pokémon Legends: Arceus or Pokémon Scarlet/Violet, but only *after* Palworld proved to be a threat to Nintendo, as this is obvious patent trolling to stifle competition.
You’re not even a Nintendo customer; that’s why you play low-quality games like Palworld. So why complain?
@@jkd610 sounds like Nintendo needs to up their game, tbh, if a 'low quality indie studio' can out-sell them :^)
@@Zapnl Pfft, HAHAHA! First joke that made me truly laugh in a while🤣🤣🤣
I think you got that "Scrolls" story backwards (most people did at the time). Mojang's overzealous lawyers had applied for ridiculously broad trademarks surrounding the word "Scrolls" in virtually every conceivable context and market, essentially forcing Bethesda's lawyers to oppose it to protect their much narrower trademark on "Elder Scrolls" specifically in the context of video games. The case ended amicably and Scrolls kept its name with no opposition from Bethesda.
I hate it when people try and paint Nintendo as saints. I don't deny they don't do the same greedy corporate shenanigans that other gaming companies do, but they can still be pretty bad in their own way.
You are just lookkng for a "moral" reason to get their stuff for free
Nintendo is an lesser evil, but thats still evil
Great games, shitty company.
@@cristiany140 There are plenty of people here doing that, but BP-dn9nv isn't.
@@cristiany140 "You are just lookkng for a "moral" reason to get their stuff for free"
We're getting their stuff for free because they don't deserve our money.
It's ridiculous that they can patent ideas. That's completely unfair and should be illegal.
Nintendo is lazy, patent trolling should be illegal, their lawyers need to be put in jail for the patent trolling.
I do think the main reason for this lawsuit is Pocket Pair's deal with Sony and trying to ultra expand the brand, not the game itself.
Yes, which makes the lawsuit not only frivolous, but also potentially qualifying as an attempt at tortious interference.
Given Nintendo and TPCI's litigious personalities, I wouldn't be surprised if they were intent on suing Pocket Pair even before the Sony deal, purely out of the game's resemblance (and regular comparisons) to Pokémon. But Palworld trying to get in on Pokémon's highly aggressive, high-exposure marketing tactics and compete for more recognition by the general public while being as close to Pokémon as it is would probably have ticked off suits at both Nintendo and TPCI, and might be a strong reason for why they decided to bring the lawsuit. After all, Pokémon itself now appears to be more focused on marketing the entirety of the franchise to the general public in as broad a way as possible than on the games in particular (which seem to have been almost sidelined in favour of large-scale marketing)-that mass media, merch and marketing is where to hit Pokémon where it really hurts, not just by making similar games.
so basically your Telling me the only Way that Pocket Pair "loses" is if they run out of Money, but didn't Pocket Pair just Partner with Sony Music Entertainment? so whos to say Sony won't just throw their Lawyers on the case? i am Very curious to see where this whole thing goes.
Then we will see Nintendo slowly back away
Doubtful. Sony just took a massive L with concord. I don't think they're keen on throwing hundreds of millions at another ip that could very well flop in its attempt at expansion.
@@user-gm4kv2my4u Palworld has a case of success, with their concurrent player count, 24h peak player count, and all-time peak player count along with reported total sales. This is much better than what Concord had where it was really just speculation and optimism. Spending some legal expenses at the loss of a competitor could be a worthwhile investment, especially if this will allow more freedom for Sony to steal- I mean, innovate ideas for their franchises.
Yeah, so as Bellular news said - Nintendo never lost a litigation that they started, but this statistic is extremely easy to rig. You just withdraw from a litigation you started without reaching it's legal conclusion, which is something companies in America abuse nearly on daily basis so they can extort money via lawsuits exactly like this. Thing is - this patent situation is so overreaching, that from what I heard Nintendo would have a claim to every single game that has items drop when an opponent is defeated. Understandably that's problematic to pretty much every single game developer on the planet so I expect Palworld to get all financial funding in the world so they don't lose
@@PowerOfTheAsian Palworld was definently a successful videogame. Expanding into a brand like pokemon? Thats still very much in the air
If Nintendo wins, then we're one step closer to the dystopia ending
you are talking about videogames where this stuff happens all the time by every major player, what makes this different?
@@MazeeKasurame one step closer, the more you allow this to happen the worse it gets, right now we can still vote with our wallet and it's proven to be working, look at concord. But if you allow the situation to rot, the less you will be able to change. What's happening elsewhere doesn't make this problem any less important
What makes it different? Well I don't know, how about the fact that they're making products that are at the mercy of the market
This is an extremely upsetting situation to me, when a smaller company finally inovates and creates an amazing experience such as Palworld... a gigantic member of the industry stepts out of it's way to completely demolish it's competition. Suffocating it, so that their mediocre products seem better.
And people defend them, because they can't separate their emotional attachment from the cruel reality being shoved upon other's throats.
It's upsetting to me that it had to come to this. Hopefully Nintendo wins quickly.
Part of TPCI and Nintendo's contention with Palworld might be precisely that it's on its way up and out of being that small indie company. Given the deals they're signing for merch and an anime, they're stepping into a niche long occupied by Pokémon's aggressive, exposure-based emotional marketing tactics.
To elaborate, Pokémon has built its brand on a certain form of "indoctrination". The general public are exposed to Pokémon IP from a million different places, from food packaging to tourist side collabs to TV shows and manga to public events. This bombarding targets general audiences and especially impressionable kids, who are growing up and having their preferences shaped. It then draws people deeper into the fold, gaining more emotional attachment until people integrate Pokémon into their personalities and find it hard to pull away. That's why people are devoted to supporting Pokémon (on a wider level than just the games), and why the emotional attachment you mention exists despite the games' floundering quality. It's why the games have been decentralised as a part of the franchise and treated as yearly assembly-lines for marketable designs, when they're not the most effective "gateway drug" to first get into (a $60 price tag is often not one's first exposure to the IP) and investment is instead pouring into marketing and merchandising.
Anyways, Palworld is not only entering into that mass-media marketing niche, but also closer to Pokémon than any other competing monster-collector with a multimedia franchise ever has been. SMT, Digimon, Yo-Kai Watch all had merch and various forms of media, but none ever came this close to Pokémon. Meanwhile, other Pokémon-likes like TemTem never got big enough to capitalise on multimedia marketing the world over. It's a combination of both factors that makes Palworld such a lethal threat to Pokémon's business.
Of course, the lawsuit might've just been over the infringement factor. I have little doubt that TPCI might be looking for ways to sue anyways even if the Pokémon games were better. That seems to fit the general attitude of their in-house counsel (which should also be independent of how the games are planned and developed) for years, and we know how litigious both TPCI and Nintendo can be.
Either way, game design patents definitely come with a litany of controversies.
Weird especially since Nintendo is doing what happened to them a couple of decades ago when Universal sued them, saying Donkey Kong was too similar to King Kong. But this might be worse because this is a game mechanic.
In the late 1980's Nintendo was found guilty of illegal monopoly. They would stifle the success of other video game developers and publisher's that refused to pay for the absurd licensing fees for the NES.
What happened back then was more or an indicator for the tone and attitude that would shape how Nintendo would go on to treat thier fans, consumers and direct competitors.
I will never be the same Nintendo fan that I was as a child, because growing up means learning that giant coperations like Nintendo are representations of the selfish side of humanity.
No company especially that large derserves your sympathy.
Corporate bullying at it's finest. Shame on you Nintendo.
you: "this game is pokemon with guns"
nintendo: "oh? time to sue then"
you: "help help palworld is being bullied"
The real bully is Pocketpair! They use Nintendo patents WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION! Only bullies do this.
@@jkd610 you two are really ignorant on what bullies are. Bullies are big guys who attack the little guys.
@@JacobAwsum W take well said bro
Those are bots.@@JacobAwsum
From a company based in a country that cares so much about honor, this is a VERY DISHONORABLE move by Nintendo.
Honor is more a means to control the poor and/or gullible than much else, I’m pretty sure
Did everybody suddenly forget how many copied designs pocket pair created and how many boundaries it pushed to be on nintendo's radar? They are the ones that dont have any honor suddenly calling themselves a small indie developers when they have nintendo knocking at their door after gaining lots of money and monetising their copied designs, even japan is calling out pocketpairs bs and saying they are the ones without honor.
@@Metal_Sign-Friday_Patchouli Honor is a sort of currency that was practiced by pretty much every civilization of the old world, it basically represented your standing with the civilization/society/group you were a part of and in return you were offered protection and opportunity for you and your family by your peers. It was in fact a pillar of civilization that we've let crumble here in the west in favor of individualism, something I bet will come back to bite us.
@@bewarebewear1507 i dunno... have you forgotten how it's been like 20 years since pokemon did anything to substantially alter their basic gameplay? Some of those copied designs are going to be spotted around multiple ip's like how many nine tailled fox spirits are out there...
But that's beside the point. trying to patent MOUNT system that transitions between flying and ground mode... I think that concept has been in a lot of other games besides any sort of nintendo ip.
@@bartofii since I dunno legends arceus, before that I would say X and Y.
Also im not talking about the common animals, im not chastizing palworld for making common animal+element since lots of games do that.
You obviously know which ones I am calling out the ones that are specifically copied from specific pokemon designs themselves such as the cinderace, silvally, luxray, mega mewtwo Y, decidueye, clodsire, gmax eevee, kyurem fusion copied pal designs, and a good amount more.
Another patent that has hurt us all is the patent for sideloaded mini games during loading screens. Assassins creed somehow went around it letting you run around while loading in a part of the game that was preloaded but sideloading mini games for long loading times was a patent that really hurt the industry and was only made null a couple years ago.
Though now it is no longer important as loading times have gone down and ssd’s are cheap but imagine all the cool mini game we could have had the devs incorporate to make the wait a bit sweeter back then.
FIFA also had minigames during loading screen
@@KamiLeVrai means they paid the license , made a deal or have connections to the patent holder company. Though it is already quite a few years back since that particular patent was annulled tbh.
Most companies didn’t bother to pay extra for something like this. And now loading screen aren’t that long anymore where it would be worth it. It is no longer patented so anyone can now do it though it’s not useful anymore as long as you have a halfway recent hdd or even a ssd.
And there are people, especially in Japan, defending this
The fact that they waited for the popularity of Palworld to fall off before trying to go after them in hopes it would've gone under the radar.
it's gonna be really funny when all the fan- artists file a class action lawsuit against Nintendo for all the designs they stole from them
It's more likely they held off because a lot of the patents they're going to use (like the one about catching monster with a ball mentioned in the video) were only filed AFTER Palworld was released.
I don't think it was even about that. In May of this year they filed a patent or re-filed a patent for "the targeting system of tossing an object at a mon in an overworld," like what we see in Legends Arceus. They waited until they actually had a patent so they could file for patent infringement.
@@Athasin wouldn't that not count? That's like saying Mario copied Sonic.
@@RockyPixel This isn't a copyright infringement suit though, it's not about copying period. It's a patent suit.
Nintendo is saying, they created this tech, they patented this tech, and no other company is allowed to use this tech in their game without Nintendo's permission or they'll owe Nintendo a lot of money.
Like Belle said in the video if a patent is too broad then it's considered void. HOWEVER, this is Nintendo (rulers of Japan) suing another Japanese company in Japan... so the chances of the Japanese company saying Nintendo's patents is too broad is slim to none.
@@Athasin no, like they're suing with a patent that only existed after what their suing existed. How the Hell does that work?
This just scream monopolizing behavior. I have a feeling nintendo is about too have their asses handed too them as mechanics can not be copyrighted.
They aren't suing for copyright infringement.
@@zirconiumdiamond1416 don't matter. Patents can't be used too restrict game mechanics either as it creates a monopoly on how a game can function. Nintendo has no legs too stand on here and are getting too greedy for their own good. Even if they win they have lost any future support from me as a gamer.
@@crimsondragon1794 game mechanics can be patented, as Belleur indicated in talking about the Nemesis system. Most likely, Pocket Pair will just need to tweak the game a little bit to work around the patent, just as other games have worked around the Nemesis patent.
@@zirconiumdiamond1416 not ones as vague as aiming and throwing. as well as mounting a creature. those are TOO generic too be patented. and the date on the patents make it clear this is mainly an attempt by pokemon to shut down competition. so no you can't patent mechanics. even the nemisis system was considered a failure of the courts as by allowing the copy righting or patenting of a mechanic it especially a generic mechanic like throwing, aiming and riding a creature. you essentially lock indie developers out of the industry altogther. this patent is therefor an illegal patent. and should be dismissed entirely.
not too mention the dates on the patent prove it was only applied for under the premise they could use it too take down a major competitor in palworld. this case is shakey at best and will not be upheld by any court as a legal case.
@@crimsondragon1794 my guess is that if anyone dug into the patents, they would see that the claims are actually a lot more narrow than "aiming and throwing". Every game with grenades would be prior art. So, maybe Pocket Pair will have to make pal spheres an area of effect thing that tries to capture every pal in the area. That might also be pretty cool.
This to me, is a clear indication that it should not be possible to patent game mechanics. Everyone should be able to build off of everyone else.
"Everyone should be able to build off other peoples' ideas!"
Since when does "Creativity" involve using someone else's ideas? 😂🤣😂😂
@@RUclipsDweller8008 literally all work is derivative unless you have been raised in a vacuum and not exposed to anythign else.
@@RUclipsDweller8008 creativity isnt just the concept of creating out of nothing, its also the idea of using what was already made in ways that change it in different ways
by the logic of you cant be creative if you use something someone else has made then literally nothing in the past 100 years can be considered a creative venture
Hey, Nintendrone, ever heard of Valve?
@@RUclipsDweller8008 Since the beginning of time -___-
By your logic we should still be flying around in those flimsy planes the Wright Brothers created (which we would have if they had their way because they pulled a Nintendo too). By your logic pokemon shouldn't exist at all since it was a game mechanic stolen from Dragon Quest. Hell, the Cutesy Monster Design was also ripped from Dragon Quest. But it doesn't stop there. By your logic, Dragon Quest took way too much from Tolkien fantasy with its monsters, orcs, and quest to defeat the Dark lord. So no more Dragon Quest. No more Wheel of Time either. Or any type of Mcguffin Story telling. Game of Thrones can piss right off too. Metal? Nope. Rock only. Scratch that. Country only! Forget about hiphop. All these pop artist still inspired by Micheal Jackson? Yeah, they can piss off too.
You are beyond naive if you don't understand that creativity is built upon other ideas.
I vow to jailbreak my switch and refuse to give Nintendo another goddamn cent if they actually go through with this. Go ahead and chase the 40 bucks I gave Palworld... _see how much it costs you._
Question, assuming the worst-case scenario were to happen and Palworld is removed from Steam and forced to shut down permanently, how hard would it be for someone to save a “pirated copy of the game” and uploaded on some shady website?
- I’m not a hacker and have little to no experience in REAL pirating, so I’m curious.
@@kudo5385 There already exists cracked versions of palworld, so if the game gets taken down and removed from everyones steam library, it probs wouldnt be too hard to get an cracked copy. And you can prob run it via spacewar on steam, or set up your own private dedicated server to play with friends etc. (I don't support the pirating of palworld, but if there is no other way to play ;).)
@@kudo5385 Its already available on different websites, so if its taken down, then it would likely be easy for people to set it up again.
@@kudo5385as its a single player game, once steam drm is gone modders can go wild. So it would be bittersweet.
@@kudo5385 At least, within a day or so...
Looking at all the list of pirated steam games.
This will teach companies to release games via Japanese publishers. This wouldn't fly in the EU.
Reminded me that because of Sega's too broad patent - there were no arrows showing where to go in racing games for 20 years.
Or how good fighting tutorials with showing what to press - were also patented until 2017. So no fighting game or slasher could have decently good tutorial stage before that.
That was sega and crazy taxi, not nintendo
... you mean sega?
That was actually better I hate that arrow
@@CaptainAtria ah yes, sorry.
And I think SEGA also patented the simple act of *smoothly moving the camera into and out of first-person* in racing games, which was _completely stupid._ If I'm not misremembering, then they're to blame for most racing and vehicle-related games intentionally hard-cutting when you switched to the interior/hood camera angle.
Dumbest patent ever. Hiw did it even get granted
Those don't seem like inventions
It’s like if the creators of the mansion of happiness/candyland patented rolling dice to move spaces
You can actually patent a lot of things that already exist. Patents are just pieces of paper until taken to court.
Nah bro, Apple literally patented a square with rounded corners. No, I'm not kidding.
$$$$bribery$$$$
Of course its not for the designs, cause then Square could sue them for "stealing" the designs from Dragonquest.
Jesus christ, this is just like WotC owning the patient for trading cards. Absolutely ridiculous.
Its not about the designs because Nintendo didn't file about the designs, but this is also a ridiculous argument. Some of those Palworld designs are nearly identical to Pokemon designs, which is not the same thing at all as taking inspiration from Dragon Quest. I don't even care about either franchise, but I could see just how close some of these Palworld designs were.
Whats also funny is, that some of the patents got added AFTER palworld was released
Doesn't matter in Japan, fortunately.
Nintendo really needs to get a life. A decade plus of this nonsense with this company, when a fan wants to do something interesting or do their own thing. Enough is ENOUGH!
why don't we just start calling Nintendo a monopoly I'm getting sick and tired of Nintendo thinking they are the origin of the capture system there are probably games lost to history what have all the same systems what Pokémon has and they are way older I do know of some games what have similar systems to Pokémon but right now I'm talking about games what has all the systems
SMT did monster/demon capturing way before Nintendo and Pokemon
Google was just declared a monopoly. Hows that going, anything happen? No? So why bother?
@@bobbybologna3029 They are literally in active litigation as we speak. The courts don't hand out speedy resolutions on issues as big as google.
@@bobbybologna3029 hello Google is on a total different level compared to Nintendo why are we even trying to compare the two if Google gets it with a heavy Monopoly slab it could cause damage to Google Play RUclips gmail Google Maps etc
@@SoulReaperAxel here🧻 cry about it
Well, the creator of those model comparisons forged the evidence, which is something they admitted them self, so it was never even a case to begin with.
its not a copyright suit, it's a patent suit. They're suing because of the japanese patent where you take a capture device in an open world, throw it at the creature where it performs an RNG check, and if the check succeeds, the creature is permanently removed from the field before being assigned as "owned by player". and "being able to mount a creature that was previously captured to ascend into the sky or go into water", and so on
I do not even play Palworld, but if Nintendo & the PKMN company get away with this I'm never buying a Pokémon game ever again.
Don't buy thier Mario Games
Don't buy anything from Nintendo either. There are plenty of fan inspirations on other platforms. Remember Bug Fables, the game developed by fans of Paper Mario TTYD?
I agree there games are not that great because always money greed or traditions with them like they hate us people another buying game that out sales there Pokemon games like I get they have rules but Jeez is like they us want play same stuff over and over get better ideas Nintendo I been Pokemon fans for years now I'm not so sure l
Don't buy anything they make.
The Switch is crap anyway, literally the best way to play Switch games is on emulators lol
Nintendo applied for these patents *after* Palworld released. This is literally a fabricated case and Nintendo winning would completely upend the entire damn industry with precedent that you can just retroactively patent troll any developer you dislike.
I hate Nintendo. Toxic monster looking to ruin everything...
With everything Nintendo has done recently, I just really hate them. I hate what they have become. I cant find myself ever giving them a single cent from now on.
Cry about it somwhere else thx
@@dawensci7134 why are you even on this video to start with?
@@robertsharp1511 to make fun of people like you🤣
@@dawensci7134 ohh uhh well if thats what gets you going then good on ya?
personally i dont feel made fun of so hey as long as you feel successful at your trolling then good job!
@@dawensci7134 How's Nintendo's sausage taste?
Again proving that you should never give corporations your money, specially ones like Nintendo.
Your money isn't going to the devs and workers anyway. There are other ways of getting them you know...
F' Nintendo. - I think I'm even now to the point that when M Prime 4 does finally come, I dont think I will care anymore. Nintendo doesnt deserve it.
Thank you. I've been there for over 6 years. I refuse all Nintendo products and I don't even have an interest in playing anything those criminals put out.
Just wait until the Switch 2 comes out. Nintendo fans are the videogame equivalent of Disney adults
When it comes to Nintendo. Piracy is moral
@@e2rqeyas if Xbox and sony fans aren't equally bad
@@MorfsProweri would personally see what the culture is in Japan before just blaming them for stuff. whats bad here may not be bad there and vice versa im not trying to defend anyone im just going to keep an open .mind and try to understand cultural differences
Patents are outliving their usefulness. There is a growing imbalance, and ironically parents are essentially used to instead destroy competition and innovation more and more than drive innovation and competition.
I have been saying for decades Nintendo is the most anti-consumer video game company imho
Nintendo is at the bottom of my list for games companies, I outright refuse to purchase anything Nintendo branded.
買わなくて結構。🤭
Important note: the “expert” was a random anonymous guy on Twitter with a brand new account.
I can’t see what kind of patent Nintendo could hold that Palworld has breached which isn’t also breached by most AAA games.
yes. The patents allegedly broken in this lawsuit would mean that 90% of all games ever made need to pay money to Nintedo if the court were to side with Nintendo (which it won't because 1) patents that affect so many games are not legally enforceable 2) Nintendo knows that and would never ever, ever allow this case to reach a conclusion. The plan is "just" to scare them into submission and burry them in legal fees. Still I am sure Palworld devs are going to get all the financial support they need, because I am sure every single AAA company in the world, doesn't like the idea to have to pay Nintendo for every game they ever made )
Nintendo is a sore loser. It always has been, and it appears, always will be. Palworld showed them up, so, they figured they'd blow some of their shareholders' money, in these hilariously stupid lawsuits.
Well done, Nintendo. Well done. 👏
They didn't lose anything. In Fact Nintendo is winning - always. If Palworld gets sent to Oblivion, that's a MASSIVE win for Nintendo. Eliminating threats early is a great strategic move.
@@QuantumNova "Eliminating threats".
You put it even better than I did, bud. Well done to you too. 😆
@@datriaxsondor590 Yes, but anyone in Militaries or Corporations would do exactly the same. Every single SOUL. Even you.
Frieza in DBZ did it: "They're weak now, but they might beat be if they get too strong."
**Destroys Planet**
A long, long time ago I decided to NEVER again by ANY Nintendo product because of these sort of things. And I am very glad for this decision.
Those patents are fucking awful. Nintendo is going full patent troll and needs to be taken down a peg.