Zildjian Then and Now: A Comparison of Vintage and Modern Cymbal Sounds | A's (Part 2 of 4)
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Master drummer John Riley plays and discusses Zildjian Avedis cymbals with director of cymbal innovations Paul Francis. Be sure to stay tuned to for parts 3-4 releasing weekly where we will be comparing more vintage and modern Zildjian cymbals!
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I remember summer 1973, NYC, SamAsh store, looking for cymbals, I was on the third floor when a drummer looking for the same thing was trying a Zjldjian 20" medium ride, the sound that came out that cymbal was exactly what I was looking for, went down stairs and I asked the same salesman to give me a set of cymbals like the ones he showed the gentleman, I played those cymbals 20" medium ride small cup, an18"medium crash and a New Beat 14" hi-hat, for close to 25 years and I sold the cymbals when I quit music, and regret it till this day, because when I got into music again, year 2000, never again found the same sound and quality of those cymbals in the Zildjian family, they were not "A" cymbals by any mean, they were just Zildjian, I'm still looking for the same sound and very frustrated not to find it, the cymbals of today are way too expensive and crack too easy, I'm inclined for the quality Paiste cymbals have, but the quantity of choices makes it so difficult for me to decide. I know the styles of music have change, if I could only find a set that suits any kind of music from Jazz to Rick & roll and anything in between, I would be a happy man.
I guess Your best bet would be zildjian A sweet series or the Giant Beats from Paiste. Both deigned for that 60s rock sound. Bright but somehow dark and washy
The Avedis series is really nice, and Reverb has tons of the older vintage cymbals available. I've got Avedis 19" and it is a wonderful crash, as well as a K Custom dark crash, with a K Dark Medium Ride 22 and Renaissance Ride (K Constantinople). I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. The Avedis Medium Ride is still pretty good, although it may not replicate what you are originally used to.
Cheers!
I still have my original Zildjian Avedis cymbals that I bought new in 1966: patched 14" hi hats (thicker bottom which weighs slightly less than the top one and sounds much deeper and respond very well to brushes and sticks) and a 19" medium ride which can also crash while having a lot of wash and sustain and still be able to ping. I still use them regularly. I recently added a Zildjian A-Series Medium Crash 18" which fits perfectly between the hi hats and ride. If I really want a lot of volume, wash and sustain, I add the 20" A-Series ride which can only be used in large venues.
For smaller venues, I use the same hi hats, a 20" Sabian AAX Stage Ride (wonderful low volume dynamics from a heavy/medium-heavy cymbal) and an A-Series 18" Medium-Thin Crash. All of these respond well to brushes and low volume sticks. My 19" vintage Avedis ride is actually much louder than the bigger, heavier 20" Sabian AAX Stage Ride and stays at home.
I may get an additional set of Zildjian 14" New Beats, but so far, haven't needed them. They are that good.
Love all that cymbal history! We often forget that the sounds we love on classic recordings (Art Blakey, etc.) were often innovations in the instruments themselves.
This is very very interesting. Always been a Zildjian lover and loved the history is has!
Those vintage hats; christ they sound good, in fact on both videos they stood out. On the previous video the difference between the vintage Avedis and the modern Avedis (I am an owner of a 20" modern Avedis, and 16' Avedis hats from the 70's afaik) was more evident, but with the A's the difference is minimal. The vintage hats are amazing, but imo I wouldn't complain if I was given the modern 18' crash and the 20' ride, BUTTTTTTTT, I would kill for a pair of the vintage hats and that 22' is delicious.
I played Zildjian for 45 years before switching to Paiste. To my ears..there is no comparison between the vintage set played and the A's. The vintage set opens more broadly. Is more transparent. Not louder or higher in pitch...but in tone and richness. Watching the video the very first time I didn't watch him play. Each time I could instantly pick out the vintage model vs the newer one based solely on tone, decay and overtones.
One of my biggest frustrations with Zildjian was they would get further and further away from that vintage A line with each new decade. They became heavier, louder and less open and forgiving. The "redesign" was a slight improvement but still they didn't work for me. The running joke between my drumming friends was .."if only they would make A's that actually sounded like the old A's use to".
The closest they got in my opinion was the "Armand" line. They were lighter, very musical, super easy to play and very versatile. But in typical Zildjian fashion...limited the models and finally discontinued them completely. That was a shame.
Mr. Riley has a wonderful and musical touch when he plays and yet the "newer" A's just don't have that depth of tone, richness and beauty they used to.
The "Avedis" line ? Nope...that didn't work for me either.
Thank you so much for the wonderful video. Absolutely true about the New Beat hi hats. No matter what hi hats I play, I always have the New Beat sound in my head as a reference or starting point.
Love the A’s more then other pairs of Zildjians
I've been playing Zildjians for 55 years.
What are the new models being played?
People are judging by their eyes not ears. I swear if they heard vintage cymbals without seeing them they'd say those cymbals sound horrible. But just because it's "vintage" they suddenly feel like they should love it. Same goes for vintage drums and guitars.
I’ll tell you what back in my youth there was nothing like New Beat hi hats, medium thin crashes and a good old Rock Ride. Or to obliterate the rest of the band a 24 inch medium ride! :)
The modern crash and hats sound best and the vintage rides sound best, I reckon.
Great video.
they both sound good. Those older zildjians just have some extra mojo!
Go to 15:00 for the best sound difference. Vintage rules!!!!
My drum teacher told me Zildjian 14” New Beats are the only hi hats you’ll need in your drumming life! I agreed 100% 👍🤟
"Many thanks to Zildjian and Memphis Drum Shop for this 2nd part of a series of magnificent cymbal history and valuable information. I realize the aging of a cymbal changes the sound a bit, but the 'new A's' are touted as going back to a sound that hearkens to the 1960s and 50s, yet I don't hear it in the new ones...could it be that they need to be broken in for a few years before they develop a sound geared more towards that more vintage palette? Thank you again for a very informative and exciting video of the greatest cymbals of all."
My 14" New Beats are a constant favorite. One of the most recorded hi-hats in history. They are articulate, washy, and durable. Almost a Goldie locks pair of hi-hats.
"One thing I learned in the candy business is that if you want to get ahead, you can’t just sell lemon drops.” ~ Avedis Zildjian
Vintage by light years!
I HAVE PLAYED. ON ZILDJIAN CYMBALS ALL MY LIFE FOR. 38 YEARS. " THE ONLY SERIOUS CHOICE" JUST LIKE OUR LORD. GLORY TO GOD. AMEN
i play some zildjians as well. hail satan.
hey i too am a zildjian fan and only play A's. No gods no masters.
It was fun to hear about a band (heavy) cymbal being used as a hi hat bottom. I wanted a pair of 16" hi hats and paired an old 950g with an old 1760g.
My favorite part of old As, you can find all sizes for $100. 🤣
Love my zildjian cymbals, I try to use some cymbals from all the series. I've got A's, K's, A customs, K customs, the discontinued Zht and one from the S series.
I still have my 14" Avedis hi hats and my 19" Avedis ride that I bought new in 1965 which I use regularly. I recently tried out the new A-Series Medium Ride and I hate it. This video confirms my opinion. The new cymbals have too little ping, too much wash and too much sustain. Even in the natural/traditional finish, they have too much bling. I play mostly acoustic jazz and I don't want to overpower the other cymbals. I ended up buying a 20" Sabian Stage Ride to be the big brother to my vintage Avedis cymbals without serial numbers. I'm sorry, Zildjian, but the only one of your cymbals I would even consider now would be the - going to the dark side now - K Custom Dark Ride.
I will never part with my old original "A"s, but I don't see any new A-Series in my life.
Great video, though!!!!
UPDATE: I did buy a new Zildjian ride cymbal, a 20" K Zildjian Crash Ride which is thinner at 2100 grams with the perfect volume and pitch for playing jazz with acoustic instruments. It isn't too dark and doesn't overwhelm you with too much wash. It is perfect for these jobs. It sounds almost vintage.
Great history lesson👍
while I can see how Paul keeps getting his sales pitches in for Zildjian, I really wish he would have answered John's question around why earlier drummers had more horizontal mounted cymbals to then seeing drummers with more vertical mounted cymbals. Could have been a very interesting conversation.
According to John in another video of his own personal cymbals, the old cymbal stands had no tilt adjustment. The drummers had to drill out the center hole, making it "keyhole" on purpose so that it would slide/tilt on the vertical stand. I also think the old hi hat stands weren't foot operated; the drummer had to squeeze the cymbals together with his hand like Buddy Rich did, while using both sticks on the top and bottom cymbals at the same time. Very interesting history.
Gene Krupa and Chick Webb were the first innovators in the design of Zildjian's before Louis Bellson created the New Beat matched pairing.
Both sound great
You might be happy with A’s but I’ll take K’s and HH’s any day.
A's vs K's/HH's are like apples and oranges. Different tastes for everybody. While I appreciate the dark sounds, I prefer the bright - but not too bright - A's. simply because the offer clarity with other instruments, particularly acoustic ones. To me, the "dark" sound is like rain falling in the background. But that's just me. Different strokes for different folks. The vintage bright sound is preferable to the "modern" bright sound. My vintage Avedis ride sounds so much better - to me - than any Series A ride does. Same goes with my vintage Avedis hi hats.