This is excellent. You've done a really good job of explaining these markings. I'm going to save this as a resource to use later. It'll be very helpful next time I paint something British. Even if I do mark vehicles for divisions that never used them at least the markings will be somewhat plausible instead of random.
I have an earlier PDF of this information at harryleith.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/brit_div_markings_v1.pdf that you might find useful. It has a slight error in the markings for artillery and AT but is otherwise unchanged. V2 - when I get around to it - will fix it. But you might find it useful in its present form.
Saved! Let me know when you do fix it. It should still be handy. I'm going to slowly amass a bunch of reference stuff to keep on hand I think. Saves trying to find it each time I need it.
Thank you so much! I’m not into this hobby (I do have two models though) but I do play War Thunder (a video game). I’m one of the few people who try to put realistic decals and pinups on my vehicles and this really helps!
This is great. I am putting together a set of Armageddon Steel Legion Leman Russ tanks, and I needed to know what kind of numbers I should put on these tanks, and where. This is good because now I have a starting point, and I can put a 40k spin on it. (Namely roman numerals)
Excellent. I also read on a military vehicle forum that Green was not used on British vehicles from 1940 until 1944, with Service Brown being the main colour, with very dark brown or black being used for camouflage dappling . This probably means that most of the vehicles owned by re enactors are completely wrong.
SCC No.2 Khaki Brown was the vehicle base colour in Europe from 1941-43ish. It took over from SCC No.3 Khaki Green which was used pre-war and in France. This change was mainly due to a shortage of the materials to manufacture green tinted paints during this time. From 1944 onwards it was back to green with SCC No.15 Olive Drab.
This was EXACTLY what I was looking for! Just starting out in FoW, picked up British and German tank forces recently and was lost as to what to do with the decals. The Armies book only explains so much and Colours of War seems to be OoP (?) or at least only available used for 3x cover price or more on Amazon! Thank you so much! Please keep making these tutorials. I've subscribed and will be back frequently!
Hi Wulfstan! Thanks for your kind words about the video. I made it mainly to get it straight in my own head, so it's great you found it useful as well. Look forward to seeing your work on instagram. Good luck!
Thank you for this tutorial video about English signals of tanks. I've not understand these marks. But your video solves these questions. Thank you very much. I wish to watch video like this more .
I am very glad you found it helpful. Unfortunately I don't have many more markings videos. This one took 6 months to research. British markings are obscure and complex. But Maybe I'll look at Soviet or German markings one day.
Thank you for your answer. I agree with you. I think it's too difficult to understand many markings of English army.I have been liking English's tanks. Matilda,Cromwell,Valentine,Comet,ShamanFirefly,crucider,and Grant！I like to make tank's models of Tamiya. These are made in Japan.
@@user-vk5bi1by9f Unfortunately making the markings hard to understand was part of the point - to confuse the enemy and make it hard to work out what units were where. I think maybe that's why the British desert markings are different to other theatres of war. Or maybe the British just like to make their lives difficult!
You’re welcome. The video happened as a result of me trying to understand British markings. It seemed to make sense to share my research. I’m no expert.
My British armored squadron from fow 3rd is guards. But since i have not added any decals or identifying marks I may make them the 1st polish armored and try and source some decals
Great Video, thanks a lot! Could you tell me, why a M4A3 Sherman of the 9th Queens Royal Lancers in Italy 1944 carries a "86" in the Red field, together with the 1st Armoured Div. Rhino? What does 86 mean?
Hi Okami. That's an interesting question. My research so far has been limited to NWE in 1944. But I did find this graphic that mentions 86 is the AoS for the second senior regiment of the 1st Armoured Division. Hope that's a bit helpful to get you started. www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/download/file.php?id=41784&sid=67bbbe418a5caa28ef2044a5a211e134&mode=view
I have a book called British tanks in Normandy and explained all about the AOS and tactical markings and that one for the Gaurds and the red 51 doesn't have anything about seinior regiment it has Gaurds Armoured Division Red 50 as HQ 5th Gaurds armoured brigade 51 2nd armoured battalion Grenadier Gaurds 52 1st armoured battalion Coldstream Gaurds 53 2nd armored Battalion irish Gaurds 54 1st motor Battalion Granadeir Gaurds If you would like any photos of the AOS arms of service markings I could send you them to an email address as I didn't think the ones on google matched up to what I used to hear my Grandad and friends talk about! I'm building a QLtmT Bedford and a Matador just now and trying to get the correct markings so got this book from my friend who's ex veteran and knows just about anything you could want to know! And for the 11th dev the red 52 would be the 3rd Royal tank reg! That Sherman with the Gaurds insignia and red 52 states it's from the 1st battalion Coldstream division and the firefly you stated it was senior is wrong it's the 2nd armoured battalion Granadeir Gaurds ! Each devision used same red marking but mean completely different regiments and devisions
Thanks for posting such a long comment. Let’s see if I can address some of your points. The British Army has an odd system of “seniority” for the constituent units in a Division or Brigade. As you point out, in the Guards Armoured Division, the vehicles of the 2nd Armoured Battalion Grenadier Guards are marked with the red 51 AoS flash. This is because this Battalion was the “senior” unit in the Brigade. 3rd Armoured Battalion Irish Guards would be considered the “junior” formation, and would wear the 53 AoS. So these units have their individual identifying names, but there is also a notation of their “precedence” in the Brigade. This is where the “junior” and “senior” nomenclature comes in.
@@FogofWar there a heclnof alot to them all I'm finding them very interesting learning about just now especially the the 5th battalion Coldstream guards merging into the 32nd brigade in 41 it's off how there the oldest serving devision with moses experience but held back in the UK till june 44 training! You just wonder if thinks might have went abit different having more experienced troops out on the front line than moving the younger less experienced troops out! All very interesting! It's only online I read about the senior tatc markings non in any of my history books about it but I know it says that about it online and still doing alot of research into I'm working on a matador going to be with the 11th armour and fusiliers infantry crew from Gecko models I bought a few British trucks this week the QLT IBG troop transporter the scammell wrecker not long finished the Thunder models pioneer and trailer with Matilda in caunter scheme rolling off back with 9 figures that was a heck of a build! No blue on Matilda though hahaa! Iv build the icm w.ot 6 and 8 and bought the AFV club matador and both Dorchester radio trucks Rommels mammoth kit is absolutely stunning icm are releasing the Leyland truck soon so have that on back order trying to get my British vehicles built up for the next shows next year as all put on hold just now with covid 19! The markings are certainly not just a pick and display method that's for sure! I have been 2 days now trying to get the research done for a Normandy build AOs markings for trucks os slot harder than on AFVs as not alot of info about and most restoration vehicles are just that pick and display like that desert rat w.o.t 6 icm copied for a kit they took an empty machinery truck and made it a kit but it is really nice! I'm trying to get the markings correct for it though going through my box of decals it's kind of taking its toll on the brain just now I must admit! Because at a show you know someone will point it out and make a fuss if not correctly displayed! Fine of just for my shelf or something but these 6 trucks have to be kinda spot on and never really took my modeling to this level of accuracy its driving me daft haha!
@FogofWar Was such seniority based on the individual Regiment's seniority on the Army list, or seniority within the division that it was attached to? So for example if a senior Regiment replaced the junior Regiment in the division, did it become the junior Regiment or did its historic seniority mean that it became the senior and all the other units had to change their signs - if that makes sense? Also, do you know of any references for the markings of specific regiments in 7 Armd Division?..
No, I haven't. The research for this one broke my brain. And British desert markings are just strange. Lots of units just did their own thing rather than followed a prescribed standard, I'm lead to understand.
@@ModellingforAdvantage The Flames of War groups on Facebook are very useful. People like James Hammy Hamilton helped me a lot with the information in this video. They probably know about desert markings as well.
55, 56 and 57 were for vehicles of units in an Infantry Division. Check out this article for more details. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_military_vehicle_markings_of_World_War_II
+TopBunkProductions Unfortunately I don't know. This was just the results of my research for my late war force in Flames of War. It is limited to NW Europe. I might get to desert markings one day!
Fog of War I'm looking forward to that; I can't find much about desert markings online. Just so I don't miss it, I'll subscribe to your awesome channel!
A great video but for Pete’s sake don’t send any money to Dom’s Decals. Dom Skelton has had his issues over the years but the guy is either an absolute crook or is so woefully disorganised. I will let you form your opinion but you will never see anything for your payment. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
This is an old video. Personally I received my decals from Dom after a long wait. But I understand people have had issues ordering from Dom’s Decals, and Dom has had health and other things to contend with. So probably worth checking before you place an order.
![Flames of War Panzergrenadiers - Camo at 15mm Kept Simple! [How I Paint Things]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h9w3hmoNhMc/mqdefault.jpg)
This is excellent. You've done a really good job of explaining these markings. I'm going to save this as a resource to use later.
It'll be very helpful next time I paint something British. Even if I do mark vehicles for divisions that never used them at least the markings will be somewhat plausible instead of random.
I have an earlier PDF of this information at harryleith.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/brit_div_markings_v1.pdf that you might find useful. It has a slight error in the markings for artillery and AT but is otherwise unchanged. V2 - when I get around to it - will fix it. But you might find it useful in its present form.
Saved! Let me know when you do fix it. It should still be handy. I'm going to slowly amass a bunch of reference stuff to keep on hand I think. Saves trying to find it each time I need it.
Will do. That might prompt me to dust off the Illustrator files and make the minor correction tweaks required.
Thank you so much! I’m not into this hobby (I do have two models though) but I do play War Thunder (a video game). I’m one of the few people who try to put realistic decals and pinups on my vehicles and this really helps!
I’m so glad you found this helpful!
This is great. I am putting together a set of Armageddon Steel Legion Leman Russ tanks, and I needed to know what kind of numbers I should put on these tanks, and where.
This is good because now I have a starting point, and I can put a 40k spin on it. (Namely roman numerals)
Glad you found the video helpful!
Excellent. I also read on a military vehicle forum that Green was not used on British vehicles from 1940 until 1944, with Service Brown being the main colour, with very dark brown or black being used for camouflage dappling . This probably means that most of the vehicles owned by re enactors are completely wrong.
SCC No.2 Khaki Brown was the vehicle base colour in Europe from 1941-43ish. It took over from SCC No.3 Khaki Green which was used pre-war and in France. This change was mainly due to a shortage of the materials to manufacture green tinted paints during this time. From 1944 onwards it was back to green with SCC No.15 Olive Drab.
This was EXACTLY what I was looking for! Just starting out in FoW, picked up British and German tank forces recently and was lost as to what to do with the decals. The Armies book only explains so much and Colours of War seems to be OoP (?) or at least only available used for 3x cover price or more on Amazon! Thank you so much! Please keep making these tutorials. I've subscribed and will be back frequently!
I'll be posting my results on Instagram and will of course give you credit. @wulfstanpaints
Hi Wulfstan! Thanks for your kind words about the video. I made it mainly to get it straight in my own head, so it's great you found it useful as well. Look forward to seeing your work on instagram. Good luck!
Thank you for this tutorial video about English signals of tanks. I've not understand these marks. But your video solves these questions. Thank you very much. I wish to watch video like this more .
I am very glad you found it helpful. Unfortunately I don't have many more markings videos. This one took 6 months to research. British markings are obscure and complex. But Maybe I'll look at Soviet or German markings one day.
Thank you for your answer. I agree with you. I think it's too difficult to understand many markings of English army.I have been liking English's tanks. Matilda,Cromwell,Valentine,Comet,ShamanFirefly,crucider,and Grant！I like to make tank's models of Tamiya. These are made in Japan.
@@user-vk5bi1by9f Unfortunately making the markings hard to understand was part of the point - to confuse the enemy and make it hard to work out what units were where. I think maybe that's why the British desert markings are different to other theatres of war. Or maybe the British just like to make their lives difficult!
This is the best explanation i have found so far thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent Info - Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Superb and thank you so much.
You’re welcome. The video happened as a result of me trying to understand British markings. It seemed to make sense to share my research. I’m no expert.
Another excellent report thank you so much
Thank you. You are very welcome.
My British armored squadron from fow 3rd is guards. But since i have not added any decals or identifying marks I may make them the 1st polish armored and try and source some decals
Great video, very informative.
Thanks
Glad you found it helpful.
Excellent source of info thanks
Glad you found it useful.
Really helpful guide, thank you.
Glad it was of use to you.
Note the white bar on the Armd Car units signified they were Corps troops not divisional.
OK. Thanks for the clarification. It is always good to get it right.
To be fair though the Armd Car Regiments ended up being allocated more or less permanently to a division.
Yeah. I know 11th Armoured division worked with the Inns of Court armoured cars most of the way through the North West European campaign.
6:00 No that's the British Armor version of the Winged Hussars
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Armoured_Division_(Poland)
Great Video, thanks a lot!
Could you tell me, why a M4A3 Sherman of the 9th Queens Royal Lancers in Italy 1944 carries a "86" in the Red field, together with the 1st Armoured Div. Rhino?
What does 86 mean?
Hi Okami. That's an interesting question. My research so far has been limited to NWE in 1944. But I did find this graphic that mentions 86 is the AoS for the second senior regiment of the 1st Armoured Division. Hope that's a bit helpful to get you started.
www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/download/file.php?id=41784&sid=67bbbe418a5caa28ef2044a5a211e134&mode=view
@@FogofWar Thank you very much for this info, that's exactly what i needed!
This is great!!!! Do these symbols also represent units in North Africa?
Unfortunately not. North African markings were quite different!
I have a book called British tanks in Normandy and explained all about the AOS and tactical markings and that one for the Gaurds and the red 51 doesn't have anything about seinior regiment it has Gaurds Armoured Division Red 50 as HQ 5th Gaurds armoured brigade
51 2nd armoured battalion Grenadier Gaurds
52 1st armoured battalion Coldstream Gaurds
53 2nd armored Battalion irish Gaurds
54 1st motor Battalion Granadeir Gaurds
If you would like any photos of the AOS arms of service markings I could send you them to an email address as I didn't think the ones on google matched up to what I used to hear my Grandad and friends talk about! I'm building a QLtmT Bedford and a Matador just now and trying to get the correct markings so got this book from my friend who's ex veteran and knows just about anything you could want to know!
And for the 11th dev the red 52 would be the 3rd Royal tank reg!
That Sherman with the Gaurds insignia and red 52 states it's from the 1st battalion Coldstream division and the firefly you stated it was senior is wrong it's the 2nd armoured battalion Granadeir Gaurds ! Each devision used same red marking but mean completely different regiments and devisions
Thanks for posting such a long comment. Let’s see if I can address some of your points. The British Army has an odd system of “seniority” for the constituent units in a Division or Brigade. As you point out, in the Guards Armoured Division, the vehicles of the 2nd Armoured Battalion Grenadier Guards are marked with the red 51 AoS flash. This is because this Battalion was the “senior” unit in the Brigade. 3rd Armoured Battalion Irish Guards would be considered the “junior” formation, and would wear the 53 AoS. So these units have their individual identifying names, but there is also a notation of their “precedence” in the Brigade. This is where the “junior” and “senior” nomenclature comes in.
@@FogofWar there a heclnof alot to them all I'm finding them very interesting learning about just now especially the the 5th battalion Coldstream guards merging into the 32nd brigade in 41 it's off how there the oldest serving devision with moses experience but held back in the UK till june 44 training! You just wonder if thinks might have went abit different having more experienced troops out on the front line than moving the younger less experienced troops out! All very interesting! It's only online I read about the senior tatc markings non in any of my history books about it but I know it says that about it online and still doing alot of research into I'm working on a matador going to be with the 11th armour and fusiliers infantry crew from Gecko models I bought a few British trucks this week the QLT IBG troop transporter the scammell wrecker not long finished the Thunder models pioneer and trailer with Matilda in caunter scheme rolling off back with 9 figures that was a heck of a build! No blue on Matilda though hahaa! Iv build the icm w.ot 6 and 8 and bought the AFV club matador and both Dorchester radio trucks Rommels mammoth kit is absolutely stunning icm are releasing the Leyland truck soon so have that on back order trying to get my British vehicles built up for the next shows next year as all put on hold just now with covid 19! The markings are certainly not just a pick and display method that's for sure! I have been 2 days now trying to get the research done for a Normandy build AOs markings for trucks os slot harder than on AFVs as not alot of info about and most restoration vehicles are just that pick and display like that desert rat w.o.t 6 icm copied for a kit they took an empty machinery truck and made it a kit but it is really nice! I'm trying to get the markings correct for it though going through my box of decals it's kind of taking its toll on the brain just now I must admit! Because at a show you know someone will point it out and make a fuss if not correctly displayed! Fine of just for my shelf or something but these 6 trucks have to be kinda spot on and never really took my modeling to this level of accuracy its driving me daft haha!
@FogofWar Was such seniority based on the individual Regiment's seniority on the Army list, or seniority within the division that it was attached to?
So for example if a senior Regiment replaced the junior Regiment in the division, did it become the junior Regiment or did its historic seniority mean that it became the senior and all the other units had to change their signs - if that makes sense?
Also, do you know of any references for the markings of specific regiments in 7 Armd Division?..
Can u make a single Vedio explaining arm of service number in brief ??
I’d love to, but I don’t plan to any time soon. Also, I’m not an expert.
2021, V4, trying to get some info for my D-Day British army XD
Hopefully this helps.
Did you ever do one of these for desert tank markings?
No, I haven't. The research for this one broke my brain. And British desert markings are just strange. Lots of units just did their own thing rather than followed a prescribed standard, I'm lead to understand.
@@FogofWar hmm, I think I will just go with random then!
@@ModellingforAdvantage The Flames of War groups on Facebook are very useful. People like James Hammy Hamilton helped me a lot with the information in this video. They probably know about desert markings as well.
what if its a red square with 56 on it?
55, 56 and 57 were for vehicles of units in an Infantry Division. Check out this article for more details. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_military_vehicle_markings_of_World_War_II
How different are British Desert Markings?
+TopBunkProductions Unfortunately I don't know. This was just the results of my research for my late war force in Flames of War. It is limited to NW Europe. I might get to desert markings one day!
Fog of War I'm looking forward to that; I can't find much about desert markings online. Just so I don't miss it, I'll subscribe to your awesome channel!
So the star on a tank didn’t mean it was only American ? Even with a white circle surrounding it ?
The white star was the Allied Star and appeared on US and British vehicles in WWII.
Fair enough....
If I’m not mistaken, the Brits angled theirs slightly to differentiate from the Americans.
America definitely kept the Star and it makes since for the Americans to have stars because of the flag
manzoor alam uk 1st sp rengmet
Love Dom's decals, but believe he is no longer in business.
Yeah. That is unfortunate. Hopefully my stash of Dom's Decals for 11th armoured will hold out for a while longer.
Me trying to accurately customise my tanks in War Thunder.
Hope the video helps.
A great video but for Pete’s sake don’t send any money to Dom’s Decals. Dom Skelton has had his issues over the years but the guy is either an absolute crook or is so woefully disorganised. I will let you form your opinion but you will never see anything for your payment. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
This is an old video. Personally I received my decals from Dom after a long wait. But I understand people have had issues ordering from Dom’s Decals, and Dom has had health and other things to contend with. So probably worth checking before you place an order.