The starting point is so important. I went through the interview process recently, and it really was a challenge in technical tests. In order to be more efficient in your learning, it can be easy to default to "Learning what you need to get the job done", and while that works great for what you're doing, it makes it much harder to adapt for technical tests.
I "fell" into a full stack development job and it's been a whirlwind of learning. Luckily, I have a senior developer with 40+ years of experience showing me the ropes. It's still a struggle every day but I am learning. 😁
I also fell into a full stack role and I'm on year 7. My company is old and has 20+ years of apps. Get used to being uncomfortable much of the time but always ready to learn the next thing the company needs. It never ends and for job security, that's a good thing! 🙂
@CyberAbyss007 7 years. Oi!! Sounds tough! The web application I work on is over 20 years old and has soooo much bloat. Lolol Whoever started this was database centric and there are hundreds of stored procedures doing a lot of the "work", which we are dealing with. It's quite the ride.
@@shanasoileau9724 - We have some of those too. I think many people underestimate how much work there is in supporting old apps. Thanks for sharing. Now I don't feel so alone. LOL
Out of all youtubers on software Tim Corey feels so real no drama it's just raw and real I'm having a better time learning and absorbing information on whether I should start by being a front end or back-end developer or full stack. It's been quite challenging trying to figure this out I'm even starting to think of just going full stack because how i have interest of both but I'm not such an artsy person.
@@IAmTimCorey If you don’t mind Mr. Corey, I’m looking to start learning front end or back end I’m not sure which one to choose or if I should just pick any, I’m more logical than the artsy type person, but I’m also not really good at math. I have no degree but I have a high willingness to learn and resilient mind. I see you teach C# but others say that other languages are more beginner friendly and C# or any of C languages are hard to learn especially if you have no degree or background. Is there any advice or vids I should pay attention to that give me more of insight on what I should do or what front end or back end really do to help me make a choice. I want to give myself a year to get good enough to leave my current job and become a software engineer as my dream job and passion.
Great questions and I'd be happy to help. Let's start with dispelling some myths. No, you don't need to know math to be a great developer. I haven't used complex math at all in 25 years of development for my job. That's because I've worked mostly in the educational, retail, corporate, and industrial spaces. If you note, that's a HUGE part of the industry. In fact, that's most of the jobs. Where you will need math is when you get into machine learning (ML)/AI or if you get into game development (although you can still avoid it mostly in game development). Also, C# is absolutely a great first language to learn. I'm not sure why people think that it isn't. The benefit is that not only is it easy to get started, it is also one of the broadest languages out there. Meaning, you can write C# applications that run on Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android, the web, IoT devices, and lots more. That means you aren't limiting yourself to one platform or one type of work. No, you don't need a degree in order to be a software developer. In fact, while I do have my degree, I didn't get it until after I had been a professional developer for over 10 years. My oldest son is a lead developer. He does not have his degree. Finally, front-end development does not mean you have to be artistic. Yes, being artistic means you can more easily do the design work as well, but I am NOT an artistic person, yet I am a full-stack developer. I don't just do back-ends. Graphic designers are typically the ones who create the artistic designs, but they aren't always the front-end developers as well. Rather, they give the front-end developers the designs. In my company, I have two graphic designers who give designs to my front-end developer. He turns the designs into working front-ends. OK, now on to how to learn C#. I have a video covering that here: ruclips.net/video/YErrKU1dq0g/видео.html As far as front-end vs back-end vs full stack, I would recommend that you start by learning C# really well first. Don't skip around. Focus on learning the language really well. Practice a LOT. The deeper you go in the actual language, the better off you will be. You don't have to make a decision on what part you want to work on until you get close to employment, and even then you can change your mind without losing any time. C# can do front, back, or both. By having depth in the language, you will be set up for success no matter which way you decide to go in the end. And which way you decide to go will probably depend on your experiences and discovering which you prefer.
@@IAmTimCorey Wow, this is really inspiring, and I can't wait to start. You are helping me find some relief and clarity. I would love to start now, as soon as possible and will use the resources you shared. I want to reach a high position in the industry within the next 5 years. I will give myself 1 year to get good enough to get my foot in the industry and wish to be full stack one day just as you did. Thank you so much.
@@IAmTimCoreyGood day Mr. Corey, I hope all is well with you. I’m still saving some money based on the foreign exchange rate in South Africa to US dollars is quite a gap. Is there some links you have to any free content on starting C# the IDE for example and starting to code. If there’s any free content for now while I save up for monthly access to all. I’m hoping to get access to all the courses to finish the path to C sharp section from your initial link you sent me hopefully also the path after C sharp can fit in the first year or the following after I’ve master the path to c#.
Tim, you hit the nail but I'm afraid what I experience every day is too subtle for it's importance. That is depth of knowledge. I'm currently on a web project (angular) and most of the "full-stack" developers are not proficient in C#. Sure they can write C# code but it's not good code. I could provide a plethora of examples (logging, excessive allocations, dependency injection, object lifetimes, concurrency issues, EF core problems) where lack of understanding results in bad code and even worse faulty code. When asked why I don't want to be full-stack, my response is depth of knowledge. I just don't think it's practical to be proficient on both ends. Not if you want work+life balance.
"Full stack development is not for the faint of heart." Yep, 💯 Had I known that my current position was actually going to be full stack, I would've been too intimidated to jump in head first.
About to purchase your all pass course on your site. Would love it if you could set up a road map on what to learn in a certain order. So that we don't just move from one course to another with no sense of direction. Your response would be greatly appreciated.
The issue is that it depends on what you want to be and what you already know. There are a lot of different ways you could go with just the training I provide. However, if you are looking to become a C# developer, here is a video that will help you figure out what to take in which order: ruclips.net/video/hnjly9iBHso/видео.htmlsi=UjFtTCNeG0yRb9He If that isn't what you are looking for, here is a playlist with more options: ruclips.net/video/hnjly9iBHso/видео.html
IMO, every dev should be fullstack to a certain degree. It's really useful to process data and visualize it such that you can reason about it. Even for research, it's really nice to have a strong dev background. But for most real world apps, it's not enough to just store data in a database and show it on a nice little website. You need to do the actual stuff like hardware programming, sensor processing, data analysis, etc. as well. And yes, it's basically impossible to hire devs with all this experience. People shouldn't expect perfect expertise from an allrounder anyways. Such a dev just gets things done and that's his true value IMO.
be careful to not get jobs that are not on the same stack. you can forget a lot of something like SQL when you go to a place that is using Mongo (for example - for 5 years). Another pain is the front end comes and goes, so you pick up whatever flavor front end the place is using (and try to line that up with the next). The larger the team, the more skills are covered in the matrix. The smaller the team, the more hats you wear, and the deeper you get to go.
I had some trouble in coding interviews for full stack as I had done a lot of different languages and technologies in the past but for most recent years at the time I was doing mostly all backend C# integrations. Found out I was pretty rusty at front end.😅
That's obviously outside of my scope of expertise, but it is an interesting concept. For doctors, I'm assuming a general practitioner is the equivalent of a full stack developer. For lawyers, there seems to always be a specialization (family law, business law, trial law, etc.)
I don't. My argument is something Tim pointed out. Depth of knowledge. I work with a bunch of "full stack" developers that don't know c#. They think they know C# do but they don't. Can they write C# code? Yep. Is it good C# code? Nope. I spent months trying to teach them structured logging is not string interpolation. Crickets. My question to you is do you want to be a mediocre programmer or an expert? I don't imply mediocre in a negative way. You are unlikely to be an expert on either end. It's just too much to know and to be proficient with so you end up mediocre in both. You either drift towards front-end or back-end as to where your passion lies. My recommendation is to pick one and focus on it. This is truer with non-C# front end technologies. I'm in a web environment so the knowledge differential is substantial.
That really depends on the area, but if you look at the Stack Overflow survey (actual developers responding - not sure where the X numbers came from), you will see that in the US, Full Stack and Front-End developers get paid the same (median), but that there are almost 7 times as many full stack developers who responded. Back-end developers made significantly more, and there were three times as many of them as front-end developers. You can look at the numbers here: survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/?#salary-united-states
Do what you can. Just remember that you aren't perfect, nor do you have unlimited time. Be satisfied with doing your best, even if your boss isn't. You've got this.
Full Stack Developer: literally anyone and everyone who ever applies for a job, nowadays, apparently 🤣 Javascript boot camp and you know what the letters SQL stand for? Put Full Stack on your CV!
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
The starting point is so important. I went through the interview process recently, and it really was a challenge in technical tests. In order to be more efficient in your learning, it can be easy to default to "Learning what you need to get the job done", and while that works great for what you're doing, it makes it much harder to adapt for technical tests.
Thanks for sharing!
I "fell" into a full stack development job and it's been a whirlwind of learning. Luckily, I have a senior developer with 40+ years of experience showing me the ropes. It's still a struggle every day but I am learning. 😁
I also fell into a full stack role and I'm on year 7. My company is old and has 20+ years of apps. Get used to being uncomfortable much of the time but always ready to learn the next thing the company needs. It never ends and for job security, that's a good thing! 🙂
Thanks for sharing!
@CyberAbyss007 7 years. Oi!! Sounds tough!
The web application I work on is over 20 years old and has soooo much bloat. Lolol Whoever started this was database centric and there are hundreds of stored procedures doing a lot of the "work", which we are dealing with. It's quite the ride.
@@shanasoileau9724 - We have some of those too. I think many people underestimate how much work there is in supporting old apps. Thanks for sharing. Now I don't feel so alone. LOL
Out of all youtubers on software Tim Corey feels so real no drama it's just raw and real I'm having a better time learning and absorbing information on whether I should start by being a front end or back-end developer or full stack. It's been quite challenging trying to figure this out I'm even starting to think of just going full stack because how i have interest of both but I'm not such an artsy person.
I'm glad you are enjoying my content.
@@IAmTimCorey If you don’t mind Mr. Corey, I’m looking to start learning front end or back end I’m not sure which one to choose or if I should just pick any, I’m more logical than the artsy type person, but I’m also not really good at math. I have no degree but I have a high willingness to learn and resilient mind. I see you teach C# but others say that other languages are more beginner friendly and C# or any of C languages are hard to learn especially if you have no degree or background. Is there any advice or vids I should pay attention to that give me more of insight on what I should do or what front end or back end really do to help me make a choice. I want to give myself a year to get good enough to leave my current job and become a software engineer as my dream job and passion.
Great questions and I'd be happy to help. Let's start with dispelling some myths. No, you don't need to know math to be a great developer. I haven't used complex math at all in 25 years of development for my job. That's because I've worked mostly in the educational, retail, corporate, and industrial spaces. If you note, that's a HUGE part of the industry. In fact, that's most of the jobs. Where you will need math is when you get into machine learning (ML)/AI or if you get into game development (although you can still avoid it mostly in game development).
Also, C# is absolutely a great first language to learn. I'm not sure why people think that it isn't. The benefit is that not only is it easy to get started, it is also one of the broadest languages out there. Meaning, you can write C# applications that run on Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android, the web, IoT devices, and lots more. That means you aren't limiting yourself to one platform or one type of work.
No, you don't need a degree in order to be a software developer. In fact, while I do have my degree, I didn't get it until after I had been a professional developer for over 10 years. My oldest son is a lead developer. He does not have his degree.
Finally, front-end development does not mean you have to be artistic. Yes, being artistic means you can more easily do the design work as well, but I am NOT an artistic person, yet I am a full-stack developer. I don't just do back-ends. Graphic designers are typically the ones who create the artistic designs, but they aren't always the front-end developers as well. Rather, they give the front-end developers the designs. In my company, I have two graphic designers who give designs to my front-end developer. He turns the designs into working front-ends.
OK, now on to how to learn C#. I have a video covering that here: ruclips.net/video/YErrKU1dq0g/видео.html
As far as front-end vs back-end vs full stack, I would recommend that you start by learning C# really well first. Don't skip around. Focus on learning the language really well. Practice a LOT. The deeper you go in the actual language, the better off you will be. You don't have to make a decision on what part you want to work on until you get close to employment, and even then you can change your mind without losing any time. C# can do front, back, or both. By having depth in the language, you will be set up for success no matter which way you decide to go in the end. And which way you decide to go will probably depend on your experiences and discovering which you prefer.
@@IAmTimCorey Wow, this is really inspiring, and I can't wait to start. You are helping me find some relief and clarity. I would love to start now, as soon as possible and will use the resources you shared. I want to reach a high position in the industry within the next 5 years. I will give myself 1 year to get good enough to get my foot in the industry and wish to be full stack one day just as you did. Thank you so much.
@@IAmTimCoreyGood day Mr. Corey, I hope all is well with you. I’m still saving some money based on the foreign exchange rate in South Africa to US dollars is quite a gap. Is there some links you have to any free content on starting C# the IDE for example and starting to code. If there’s any free content for now while I save up for monthly access to all. I’m hoping to get access to all the courses to finish the path to C sharp section from your initial link you sent me hopefully also the path after C sharp can fit in the first year or the following after I’ve master the path to c#.
Tim, you hit the nail but I'm afraid what I experience every day is too subtle for it's importance. That is depth of knowledge. I'm currently on a web project (angular) and most of the "full-stack" developers are not proficient in C#. Sure they can write C# code but it's not good code. I could provide a plethora of examples (logging, excessive allocations, dependency injection, object lifetimes, concurrency issues, EF core problems) where lack of understanding results in bad code and even worse faulty code. When asked why I don't want to be full-stack, my response is depth of knowledge. I just don't think it's practical to be proficient on both ends. Not if you want work+life balance.
Thanks for sharing!
"Full stack development is not for the faint of heart." Yep, 💯
Had I known that my current position was actually going to be full stack, I would've been too intimidated to jump in head first.
Thanks for sharing!
About to purchase your all pass course on your site. Would love it if you could set up a road map on what to learn in a certain order. So that we don't just move from one course to another with no sense of direction. Your response would be greatly appreciated.
The issue is that it depends on what you want to be and what you already know. There are a lot of different ways you could go with just the training I provide. However, if you are looking to become a C# developer, here is a video that will help you figure out what to take in which order: ruclips.net/video/hnjly9iBHso/видео.htmlsi=UjFtTCNeG0yRb9He
If that isn't what you are looking for, here is a playlist with more options: ruclips.net/video/hnjly9iBHso/видео.html
IMO, every dev should be fullstack to a certain degree. It's really useful to process data and visualize it such that you can reason about it. Even for research, it's really nice to have a strong dev background.
But for most real world apps, it's not enough to just store data in a database and show it on a nice little website. You need to do the actual stuff like hardware programming, sensor processing, data analysis, etc. as well.
And yes, it's basically impossible to hire devs with all this experience. People shouldn't expect perfect expertise from an allrounder anyways. Such a dev just gets things done and that's his true value IMO.
be careful to not get jobs that are not on the same stack. you can forget a lot of something like SQL when you go to a place that is using Mongo (for example - for 5 years). Another pain is the front end comes and goes, so you pick up whatever flavor front end the place is using (and try to line that up with the next). The larger the team, the more skills are covered in the matrix. The smaller the team, the more hats you wear, and the deeper you get to go.
Thanks for sharing!
I had some trouble in coding interviews for full stack as I had done a lot of different languages and technologies in the past but for most recent years at the time I was doing mostly all backend C# integrations. Found out I was pretty rusty at front end.😅
It can happen. Keeping current and fresh is difficult in just one area of C#. Trying to do it in multiple areas is a lot harder.
Waiting for: What is a Full Stack Physician? What is a Full Stack Lawyer? What is a Full Stack Musician?
That's obviously outside of my scope of expertise, but it is an interesting concept. For doctors, I'm assuming a general practitioner is the equivalent of a full stack developer. For lawyers, there seems to always be a specialization (family law, business law, trial law, etc.)
Full Stack Developer should be able to work in data layer, business layer and presentation layer.
Yep
For Android, if going native, I would recommend Kotlin over Java
Thanks for the suggestion. Please add it to the list on the suggestion site so others can vote on it as well: suggestions.iamtimcorey.com/
Tim's turned in to Google, a wealth of all knowledge.
I am glad my content is helpful.
Wish that actual employers listened very carefully to what Tim is saying. Than all of us will have fewer issues.
Some do. Others eventually get it.
Just read on X that still the avg. salary of a Front end dev. > full stack dev. 😅
Do you feel one should still remain a Full stack dev.?
I don't. My argument is something Tim pointed out. Depth of knowledge. I work with a bunch of "full stack" developers that don't know c#. They think they know C# do but they don't. Can they write C# code? Yep. Is it good C# code? Nope. I spent months trying to teach them structured logging is not string interpolation. Crickets. My question to you is do you want to be a mediocre programmer or an expert? I don't imply mediocre in a negative way. You are unlikely to be an expert on either end. It's just too much to know and to be proficient with so you end up mediocre in both. You either drift towards front-end or back-end as to where your passion lies. My recommendation is to pick one and focus on it. This is truer with non-C# front end technologies. I'm in a web environment so the knowledge differential is substantial.
What, in what country do they pay more for frontend? They sure as hell don't here
Weird. That doesn't seem correct.
That really depends on the area, but if you look at the Stack Overflow survey (actual developers responding - not sure where the X numbers came from), you will see that in the US, Full Stack and Front-End developers get paid the same (median), but that there are almost 7 times as many full stack developers who responded. Back-end developers made significantly more, and there were three times as many of them as front-end developers. You can look at the numbers here: survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/?#salary-united-states
Spinning plate solo developer here...
Do what you can. Just remember that you aren't perfect, nor do you have unlimited time. Be satisfied with doing your best, even if your boss isn't. You've got this.
@@IAmTimCorey Thanks for the words of encouragement and thanks for all the videos you do. You are very appreciated!
Wish you the best dude and don’t cry please. Everything will be fine.
Full Stack Developer: literally anyone and everyone who ever applies for a job, nowadays, apparently 🤣 Javascript boot camp and you know what the letters SQL stand for? Put Full Stack on your CV!