Please subscribe and like this video if you want me to keep doing future comparisons like this with other components. That's the only way i know what you guys want to see!
I have listened to Luxman amps since the early 80s , have tried many other amps and always end up back to Luxman . It does have a flavor and not all sound alike but the (vintage ) models I still use with high efficiency speakers are always very smooth , natural and fluid. Like what I would want from an intimate live venue with a great sound system . I can listen all day with no fatigue , year after year . Some models have dare I say a bit of tube flavor in the mids .
I listened to the room comments, let my ears listen to the recordings and chose amp 2. It’s brilliant that you can record the comparison so we can make a judgment, I can only imagine the work involved. I now have idea of what two superb amps can do. Thank you Jay
Selected Luxman, as I did for the previous round. Less fatiguing and more musical overall. The fact that it looks better and costs less are the cherries on top! Thanks for the shootout videos Jay!
The luxman m10x is really something special. And for the money. It's extremely good value. It's very rare you can say that on expensive high end audio. But the build quality. The parts quality. The design ect is far far better than more or less every brand out there. No matter cost or name. In the solid state class. Luxman is leading the pack. I'm a tube guy. But I have several experience with luxman and many other very big brand's out there. Krell. Gryphon. Boulder.. Mark Levinson. Pass labs. Mcintosh. Hegel. Ect ect ect. Luxman is just miles ahead in build quality and performance pr dollar.
I chose 1 and thought it was the Luxman because the mids gave me goosebumps… the second amp, the luxman had some over brightness in the highs. On the 3 amp comparison I chose the constellation, so thats twice I did not pick the Luxman…. The Moon didnt do it for me at all, but from the two emotional sounding amps the Constellation had a bigger soundstage, I also love the looks. Thanks for this great comparison and your hard work Jay!
As a Luxman m900u owner, I would like to see a shootout between the new over the old. Like to compare the advancements, and you won’t even have to hide the amp that is playing since they look identical:)
@Chain smoking Luxman C-900u is the natural match. Otherwise Denafrips Athena punches way above its price tag and delivers a full bodied sound, although you would need to demo to see how it pairs with the Luxman amp.
you have said it! the microphone recorded something but I was present that day and Luxman was not even close to that sound, I even chose Amp# 2 because it was similar to what i have heard that day. Good for Luxman, I myself liked it too, who knows if I get a Luxman to play and have both sounds at home. Kuddos to you Jay for bringing all the joy of music to every single viewer including myself.
Hi Carlos, thanks for your input. In listening to the recording you said you chose number 2 and you said that’s what you heard that day. But which amp did you hear that kind of sound from that day, in person was it the Griffin? If so I wonder if Jay got the recordings from the two amps mixed up by accident?
I was 90% sure that number 2 was the luxman. It sounds like my Luxman L550ax mk2. But on the beginning of the third song, the bass on amplifier 1 was a little bit more full than the amp.2 but the amp.2 was with more detail and richness in its sound in all 3 songs. Thank you for the video Jay!!!
In the last video I did not manage to listen to both amplifiers due to the way the sound is compressed and the interruptions in playback, but I have respect for the fact that you are open to a different perspective (hearing how we hear it via RUclips). Respect
From 1975’s M-6000, to 2005’s B-1000f, to 2024’s M-10x, these folks relentlessly pursue perfection like Lexus, from angles never imagined before! I have personally heard nuances from M-6000s that had me catatonically shocked! Innovative genius, that’s (In My Universe) WORTH EVERY THIN DIME! ….and I’ll never part with that “02 Series”
This comparation was with same cables , system . I can tell you guys , if i change position to preamp in another power plug in niagara 5000 i get this difference ( how is sound here , between Luxman and Gryphon ) . If i change position of power plug to Amp i get another huge difference , in presence of bass , presence of stage ... Is very hard to choose , only with a lot of time and switches , you get how yours system reach synergy . I repeat here ,Jay's system is not " tuned " for this amps . Thank you Jay for this ! I appreciate your work . If you want use one of this two or else , is need a lot of time for speakers positions , cables .. After you spend many months ( even years ) with same system and have time , money and knowledge to invest for this ( is this your first passion ) , you will get all yours system can do . If you change components ( not cables ) you not reach all for system . BR
To put it mildly, I am absolutely shocked. I voted for Amplifier 1. Could of sworn it was the Luxman M10X. Guess what, I must be a Gryphon fanboy in wait. Love what I heard out of the essence. Really though, two outstanding products performance wise. Yes Jay, you are a true Audiophile and a great benefit to the hi fi community at large - a pioneer in your approach and methodology. Your passion is your number 1 asset. It always comes through in all your videos. These comparisons are a lot of fun and enlightening to say the least. One can learn much from them. Thanks again, Big Jay.
Doesn’t make sense to me to re-evaluate your pick based on listening through a mic’d recording vs when-you-were-right-there, in the room, listening live. The most accurate experience is going to be sitting right in front of it while playing it. That’s how we use this equipment. We don’t record it to YT then listen on our iPads through earphones.
Wow ! That is amazing, isn’it ! Picking one amplifier as being not only the preferred one with lots of winning qualities one but « in a different class » sitting in the room, and then listening through headphones to the recorded session and stating the other one is the better one ! Independent of which amplifier is which, this redefines hi-fi, real-fi and audiophileness all together, inside out and bottom to top ! 😮
Jay, After living with the M900u for 1.5 years, I bought the M10x just because I had the opportunity, but always want to buy the Gryphon. After living with the M10x, I started to feel than I don't longer need to buy the Gryphon. However, I don't agree about the Luxman homogeneity. I don't feel that this amp sound the same with all recordings, the contrary, the system disappears with good recordings, but collapses with bad ones. The funny thing is that I selected number 1 as the winner!, but I will keep my Luxman for a while and wait for the C900u replacement. Great work.
Hi Jay - Thanks for posting a really useful and informative video and for being so honest to publicly change your view. Thanks also for the huge amount of work to run these shootouts - very few dealers would be in a position do run this owing to competing brand affiliations. What amazes me is how the differences are so obvious even over You Tube! To me amp 1 sounds resolving but somehow "tight" and a bit lifeless, whereas amp 2 has a "fluidity" that sounds much more lifelike. I know you don't enjoy classical music, but it could be interesting to include some of that in future shootouts as it can be a tough test for many systems. By the way, I am subscribed and I always like the vids I see - no need to keep repeating - we get it!
Wow ! Great effort and tedious work ! This video truly topples every conception and misconceptions about Hi-Fi and redefines it all together ! Picking one amplifier as being not only « the preferred one » with lots of winning qualities but « in a different class » sitting in the room, and then listening through headphones to the recorded session and stating the other is the better one ! Independent of which amplifier is which, this truly redefines audiophileness all together ! Shocking indeed !😮
It's new technology, it's not that you made a mistake or error not that you are implying that. It's nice to see luxman has stepped up its game to provide a better product unlike some other companies going in reverse. Thank you for providing your feedback as well, I feel t his amp would make a great pairing with a pair of speakers with some sparkle on top, probably a focal or b&w
It takes a lot of courage to be flexible enough to stand up for truth against a previous position, so well done Jay! In this hobby, no brand has a sacred right to occupy top spot, and if a competitor comes along with a superior product it is best to acknowledge that in the interests of truth and credibility. Not all hi-fi reviewers are capable of that, but you have proven you are.
Get Luxman if you want to just sit back and enjoy your music. Get Gryphon if you're going to conduct an analysis of your music. Each amp has its own design philosophy. If it was me, I would pick the Luxman amp, no question asked, I don't want to conduct any analysis of my musical collection!
I picked amplified #2 , and my gut told me it was the Luxman, but I posted the other day that it was probably the Gryphon based on all the thumbs up you were giving to people who preferred amplifier #2, because you previously stated that was your pick for best amplifier under $30K.
I would not kick either amps out if my room. But I did pick amp #2 with all 3 songs. Sounded more musical in my opinion. Not better, just more musical.
as a Luxman owner i voted for amp1 because of bass - allthough knowing by heart amp2 definitely was the Lux (mids and airiness)🤣 love it! Nevertheless i think/hope/pray my 595 (with a bit more Class A beef than the M10X) is a bit smoother and less "harsch" than the M10X
Fun videos for sure! Maybe you already have but consider getting an asmr microphone that can record down to 20hz or 10hz and we'll get a verrry close experience to sitting in your room if we have good iems.
Please also let us know the Preamplifier used in both case ..is Preamplifier used is not a factor deciding the different result with different amplifier
I voted for nr 1 Essence and I thought it was more dynamic, clear and 3D sounding. Presentation nr 2 was more relaxed laid back and a little dull actually. It might sound more sweet and pretty in real life. Dunno feels like we only get a hint of how it might be.
Thank you for putting in such painstaking efforts to conduct this shootout! So for the use case of a DAC with a volume out into an amp, the Luxman won. That’s good news for someone who wants to do the same OR has an older Preamp s/he wishes to pair with a new amp. Also, the Gryphon sounded pretty darned good considering the shootout was sans a gryphon preamp. Wonder if most amps are designed around a preamp from the same brand?I’ve heard (but haven’t delved into this) that the preamp/amp interfaces aren’t necessarily standardized across different brands. One You Tube Channel even noted that at one brand’s amplifier/ preamplifier are DC coupled, and that fact should be taken into consideration when pairing components with that brand..
Interesting… I thought - when reading the title - your favorite (Gryphon) was already your no 1 . Congratulations to your „honesty“ even if it means you have to „correct“ your opinion made in the past.
Does not need to be black and white. In this situation- equipment, room, speakers, music genre and so on the Gryphon showed this X and the Luxman showed that…Y and the choice is yours… If you’re looking for X then Gryphon if you’re looking for Y then Lux is your answer. Both recommended, just different. Why not this way?
Jay, One question: Which amp really sounds the better when in person and not from a recorded mic? When you say that ever type of music sounds the same, to me that is a amp which I would not want!
Right, Jay, which amp sounded better in your room? If you didn't listen to the Luxman in the middle, can't you put it back into your rig & compare both "live"?
Hello good people. I am the other 1/3rd of the listening panel that experienced the Luxman vs. Gryphon amp shootout @ Jay's place live. I am here to tell you that evening the Gryphon product was 100% vastly superior to the Luxman IMHO, and not just in one aspect or two, but in nearly every important aspect that has to do with sound reproduction. Sorry? :( Why the resulting mic capture ended up either minimizing, or more shockingly, ended up causing most(?) listeners of this channel to prefer the Luxman amp which was clearly the inferior product during the live session, I certainly cannot explain folks! It is puzzling. Having said that, I will stick to my initial findings because what I experienced "live" with my own ears trumps any reproduction of the same event via a recording captured on a mobile phone through what is, at best, an amateur level mic. Not to mention that what you guys end up hearing gets further "watered down" by the dreaded RUclips compression. So, with the highest level of respect towards Jay and not wishing to offend him nor any of his followers, I am sticking to my original impressions. All my best, Oswaldo (Oz) Martinez President Let There Be Sound, L.L.C.
Hi Oz, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate them. Wondering if you can answer a few questions. So in the recording it seems the lux (#2) had more clarity and resolution than the griffin. But in person I think you’re saying it was the opposite? Asking bc Im looking to upgrade from the m900u because i want more punch and resolution and I’m considering these two amps along with a a used D’agostino S250. Thanks for your response!
@@dde924 Hello! I will stick to my guns and declare the Gryphon the better sounding unit. Again, that's what I heard at Jay's that day and I trust my hearing 100%
@@LetThereBeSound1 thanks. I think what I’m asking is do you think there is a chance Jay got the sound clips mixed up and the #2 amp in the video is actually the griffin? Bc all 3 of you picked the griffin as the amp with better clarity etc. But as you know nearly 90% online picked the opposite. Leading me to believe maybe Jay got the recordings mixed up and the #2 amp is actually the griffin amp…
@@dde924 It is certainly a possibility and a possible explanation for the reversal. But in all honesty, it is unfair for us to speculate. I trust Jay would have not gotten his recordings mixed but at the end, we are all humans and a mistake could have happened. And if not, I still trust what I heard live over what those recordings show. Simply put, a mobile phone recording that gets further bastardized by the RUclips compression scheme, does not trump what we experienced live. That 90% of the people chose the other amp is of little relevance to me. Anyway, ideally you will find yourself a quality dealer that will allow you to audition any of these contenders in your own home! That's really the BEST way because at the end it doesn't even matter which amp was best ay Jay's Lab, does it? What matters is which one sounds BEST at your place, with your gear and your acoustics. Good luck and let me know what you end up with!
@@LetThereBeSound1 thanks for your response. I want what the “#2” amp sounded like through RUclips but based on listening to the three of you talk I’m afraid in real life it might actually be the gryphon that gives that sound in the room. The problem is there isn’t a gryphon dealer near me, seems like only a few in the US. I was just at audio advisors in west palm beach yesterday and listened to the boulder 2060’s on the Alex V and loved it (Out of my price range fn). I’m guessing the gryphon sounds more like the boulder than the luxmans. Boulder amps are made 15 min from my house I’ll keep you posted on what I end up with. A dealer is trying to get me to buy the new krell i400 which there is very few reviews on it. Will need to find one so I can hear it.
WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am SHOCKED!!!!!!!! That's why you responded to my comment with the confused face! Cuz I thought amp 2 was the superior amp, as many others did, but I assumed that it was the Gryphon, as I assumed the Gryphon was much more expensive. I was mixing Gryphon up with Boulder. But now we need to see that Luxman against the Boulder! I think the Luxman could possibly beat the Boulder.
Hey Jay. Thanks for your content and thanks for sharing, but it is odd that all three of you unison found the IRL comparison (in front of the amps) to favor the Essence. No question about it. You were all certain. Then after comments starting to coming in and people preferred no 2 (based on a micr. via YT that is all but scientific, mentioned with all respect) there is a change of mind. I would rank the IRL experience 10x the mic-recorded experience. And unfortunately what happened here is that at least speaking for my self I will doubt your self experienced results from now on. We just don´t know what it is you actually hear. Sorry to say. And I don't give that much to what's come via the microphone and YT. It´s fun, but nothing you can base a purchase decision on. Cheers.
I don't like the fact that all music sound the "same" through the Luxman. For that reason alone i would chose the more neutral sounding (revealing) Gryphon Essence
listening again i noticed the Prat of the piano in song 1 was more realistic. the instruments sounded more clear and real imo with the gryphon. the luxman was a little more full (bloated).
I noticed that too - the Gryphon clearly wins on prat due to it's BJT transistors, but on nearly every other measure the Luxman wins with its well implemented Mosfet trasnsistors. If your favourite type of music is EDM in that case the Gryphon is probably better, but for most other genres the Luxman.
Thank you Jay. I wonder. What you would think of the AVM AMP MONOBLOCKS. I've owned them for a long time and I'm really happy with them. I have had a few things in the years of my hobby. But these will remain in my possession for now. No matter what music I listen to. It sounds great. Of course I am satisfied with my high-end equipment... Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht and above all continue with what you are doing. Peace and love and of course coffee beans..... It was interesting the amps. 💯%✌🏾🌍😘☕️👈🏿😉 And of course everything has to do with taste in the end!!! What touches your heart, and what makes you enjoy listening etc.....
You are right:the Luxman sounds great on first side but yes all the music you play sounds the same,they pretty the sound up,the Gryphon doesnt play that trick,im in the middle of it,i have a transparant set up myself only my amp has a hint of warmth,but in the end i love both amps of what they do.
I love what you’re doing on this channel but it seems the same brands keep coming through here calling them the best and there’s so many more at that level. How about Audio net ,Thrax. And a few others
I'm with Andreas. There are several different interpretations of what happened here, and none are good. We watch these channels to help with our selections, and to limit the amount of leg work we have to do on our own. The "switch" that occurred here demonstrates an error based on either bias or technical issues. This shows the limit of this type of content. My take home from this is that I should go into the audio shop, check the piece out in person to ensure I enjoy the aesthetics, and then ask the dealer to email me videos and then go home and make the audible selection from my headphones at home...
Jay, your channel is unique and interesting. Get the Essence back, get a panel of a few other folks, including Luxman fans (Mike B?), and discuss the objective differences you are hearing live...
Social bias… I suspect your original analysis was correct Ref sound signatures. So that means both are tops and choice is personal. It turns out you like romancing style sound… seductive. You’ve been influenced by the results. Bottom line? Which would you choose to live with?
This is a truly weird video - so, the Gryphon amp you praise to high heaven elsewhere, has been beaten by a power amp, where everything sounds the same, and you have to buy additional amps to get a difference in sound?
Summing up: The Gryphon Essence remains the best amplifier under $30,000 or €. The three people present at the test had all clearly preferred the Essence in the first video. Only later, after listening to the recording on headphones, Jay's decides to change its vote in favor of Luxman. But a headphone recording is not the reality, it doesn't have much value in the hifi field. Indeed below in the comments, the other 2 people present at the test ("Carlos Montenegro" and "Let There Be Sound!" ) confirmed that for them Essence had a huge advantage over M-10X. He writes: "I am here to tell you that evening the Gryphon product was 100% vastly superior to the Luxman IMHO, and not just in one aspect or two, but in nearly every important aspect that has to do with sound reproduction." Sorry Jay's, but I find it fair to point it out. You changed your opinion that lasted 2 years and confirmed in the face-to-face comparison, later, after hearing in person. This is also a matter of money and prestige for Essence owners when they go to resell it. I bought Essence because of you. I was a Luxman customer and preferred Gryphon for its naturalness, transparency, speed, control and musicality, as well as the flexibility of having 2 amps in 1. Class AB (L mode) and A (H mode).
@@AudiolandCH What mean tuff? C-10X + m-10x very beautifoul, but mellow. Essence Pre + Essence, and Pandora, and a lot of preamp High level in combo with Essence stereo. In any case, I loved and love Luxman. In my opinion they have 2 different approaches. Gryphon transparent, detailed, dynamic, reactive, musical, material, with a beautiful separation of planes. I listen mainly to classical music. But if the chain has problems it makes everyone feel the times. Luxman lovely, pleasant, but it's like sitting in a Mercedes S class, with all the problems and cons. It depends on how much effort you want to make setting up the system and on your personal tastes. Alternatively, I would buy Luxman straight away. I also had great impressions with the Accuphase A-250, I haven't been able to try their mono version yet. Much better than their E600 and E800 integrated ones.
It’s the very first time that I heard such an obvious difference in a youtube video… #2 was so obviously better that I really thought It was the Gryphon… Oddly enough, I had a hard time hearing differences between the Luxman, Constellation and Simaudio as they all sound fantastic and very much alike to my ears… Not this time though…
Jay - 3.5 minutes of "subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, join my website, hit the notification bell, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe" is getting too much. Just letting you know. This channel is not The Oscars or The Game of Thrones (yet). Please cut the time repeating that and keep up the good work! Thank you.
@@jaysaudiolab Well, if people did not want to subscribe after you kept telling them that, spending 3+ minutes in the beginning of the video will likely not change that. What RUclips may not be telling you is how we feel about that. You are wasting precious time of your faithful subscribers to try convincing the people who don’t want to subscribe. You can think of it as hurting the good guys who are helping your channel to change the bad guys. Not fair to the good guys! You can’t force people to subscribe and repeating it so many times is starting to annoy your subscribers (or at least that’s what my friends are telling me). Keep up the good work and the subscribers will naturally come and subscribe to your channel without even saying a word about subscribing. That’s right - you don’t even have to tell people to subscribe. Every RUclips user should know that they can subscribe and get notifications. Or perhaps a reminder at the end of the video for someone who does not know that will be a good place. If there is someone who really likes your channel and watches all your videos but does not know that a channel subscription and notifications are possible, those are the people who will be watching your videos until the end. Let them know at the end, and your faithful subscribers can just skip the last minute of your video. This is what other successful RUclipsrs like the audiphiliac do and the result seems positive with over 220K subscribers. I do think that being a little bit less aggressive will help your channel grow faster and avoid turning off people you already attracted. There is of course a balance to strike, but I am trying to give you one side (end) of the story. And the suggestion is - go straight to the point in the beginning of the video and move the advertisement to the end.
How is this a legit test. To find the amp for you, you must listen to them in your own personal set up. This is the only way to get an accurate result. The most expensive or so called best may not find the synergy in your system to give the best result. The fact you would do a comparison like this is ridiculous. You know better. This is pure misinformation. Just to let you know I own neither of these products, so there is no bias here.
It's new technology, it's not that you made a mistake or error not that you are implying that. It's nice to see luxman has stepped up its game to provide a better product unlike some other companies going in reverse. Thank you for providing your feedback as well, I feel t his amp would make a great pairing with a pair of speakers with some sparkle on top, probably a focal or b&w
Please subscribe and like this video if you want me to keep doing future comparisons like this with other components. That's the only way i know what you guys want to see!
I have listened to Luxman amps since the early 80s , have tried many other amps and always end up back to Luxman . It does have a flavor and not all sound alike but the (vintage ) models I still use with high efficiency speakers are always very smooth , natural and fluid. Like what I would want from an intimate live venue with a great sound system . I can listen all day with no fatigue , year after year . Some models have dare I say a bit of tube flavor in the mids .
👍
I listened to the room comments, let my ears listen to the recordings and chose amp 2. It’s brilliant that you can record the comparison so we can make a judgment, I can only imagine the work involved. I now have idea of what two superb amps can do. Thank you Jay
Thank you
I love your passion for music. You are the most passionate, dedicated audiophile I have ever seen. Thanks for everything you do for this hobby.
Thanks Steven
Selected Luxman, as I did for the previous round. Less fatiguing and more musical overall. The fact that it looks better and costs less are the cherries on top! Thanks for the shootout videos Jay!
The luxman m10x is really something special. And for the money. It's extremely good value. It's very rare you can say that on expensive high end audio. But the build quality. The parts quality. The design ect is far far better than more or less every brand out there. No matter cost or name. In the solid state class. Luxman is leading the pack. I'm a tube guy. But I have several experience with luxman and many other very big brand's out there. Krell. Gryphon. Boulder.. Mark Levinson. Pass labs. Mcintosh. Hegel. Ect ect ect. Luxman is just miles ahead in build quality and performance pr dollar.
Luxman, 2 was my choice. I love the power meters on the Luxman as well.
Yep
As a Luxman owner, I voted 2. The recordings are in accordance with the sound signature that I know
👍
I chose 1 and thought it was the Luxman because the mids gave me goosebumps… the second amp, the luxman had some over brightness in the highs. On the 3 amp comparison I chose the constellation, so thats twice I did not pick the Luxman…. The Moon didnt do it for me at all, but from the two emotional sounding amps the Constellation had a bigger soundstage, I also love the looks. Thanks for this great comparison and your hard work Jay!
👍
I like the gryphon more lol. With the right cable like nordost Valhalla or Odin gold, the luxman have no chance
As a Luxman m900u owner, I would like to see a shootout between the new over the old. Like to compare the advancements, and you won’t even have to hide the amp that is playing since they look identical:)
Probably won't happen
@@jaysaudiolab wish you were closer, I would bring mine over.
He's already bought the m900u four times, a fifth time would be overkill. :)
@Chain smoking Luxman C-900u is the natural match. Otherwise Denafrips Athena punches way above its price tag and delivers a full bodied sound, although you would need to demo to see how it pairs with the Luxman amp.
I picked #2. I thought it was the Gryphon, live and learn! Fun shoot out Jay! Keep'em comin!
you have said it! the microphone recorded something but I was present that day and Luxman was not even close to that sound, I even chose Amp# 2 because it was similar to what i have heard that day. Good for Luxman, I myself liked it too, who knows if I get a Luxman to play and have both sounds at home. Kuddos to you Jay for bringing all the joy of music to every single viewer including myself.
Microphone recorded something? Lol
It just shows how recording with a microphone, listening online through headphones is not reliable. Not the same as being in the room.
Hi Carlos, thanks for your input. In listening to the recording you said you chose number 2 and you said that’s what you heard that day. But which amp did you hear that kind of sound from that day, in person was it the Griffin? If so I wonder if Jay got the recordings from the two amps mixed up by accident?
Wow I was not expecting that ... Looks like I like Luxman! I voted for it in the final round of the 3-amp shootout and now here.
I voted the same way as you each time, but actually "was" expecting it. Luxman have a long history and really know how to make great amplifiers.
👍
I was 90% sure that number 2 was the luxman. It sounds like my Luxman L550ax mk2. But on the beginning of the third song, the bass on amplifier 1 was a little bit more full than the amp.2 but the amp.2 was with more detail and richness in its sound in all 3 songs. Thank you for the video Jay!!!
👍
Your are 200% right 😊the luxman it’s awesome … just say ans night
Day and night ( sorry ) *
It's amazing that both the Luxman and the Gryphon sounded like my headset... money saved ;)
Huh
In the last video I did not manage to listen to both amplifiers due to the way the sound is compressed and the interruptions in playback, but I have respect for the fact that you are open to a different perspective (hearing how we hear it via RUclips). Respect
Thanks
From 1975’s M-6000, to 2005’s B-1000f, to 2024’s M-10x, these folks relentlessly pursue perfection like Lexus, from angles never imagined before! I have personally heard nuances from M-6000s that had me catatonically shocked!
Innovative genius, that’s (In My Universe) WORTH EVERY THIN DIME!
….and I’ll never part with that “02 Series”
High resolution components should be the goal and then you can fine tune the sound by changing all connect wires Until you satisfied
👍
Yeah Jay, I got it right Sir, Luxman is all the way!
This comparation was with same cables , system . I can tell you guys , if i change position to preamp in another power plug in niagara 5000 i get this difference ( how is sound here , between Luxman and Gryphon ) . If i change position of power plug to Amp i get another huge difference , in presence of bass , presence of stage ... Is very hard to choose , only with a lot of time and switches , you get how yours system reach synergy . I repeat here ,Jay's system is not " tuned " for this amps . Thank you Jay for this ! I appreciate your work .
If you want use one of this two or else , is need a lot of time for speakers positions , cables .. After you spend many months ( even years ) with same system and have time , money and knowledge to invest for this ( is this your first passion ) , you will get all yours system can do . If you change components ( not cables ) you not reach all for system . BR
👍
Glad selected #1 Gryphon as my favour. #2 Lux clearly more detail and wider stage. However, the vocal Gryphon surely win.
To put it mildly, I am absolutely shocked. I voted for Amplifier 1. Could of sworn it was the Luxman M10X. Guess what, I must be a Gryphon fanboy in wait. Love what I heard out of the essence. Really though, two outstanding products performance wise. Yes Jay, you are a true Audiophile and a great benefit to the hi fi community at large - a pioneer in your approach and methodology. Your passion is your number 1 asset. It always comes through in all your videos. These comparisons are a lot of fun and enlightening to say the least. One can learn much from them. Thanks again, Big Jay.
Thanks David
Doesn’t make sense to me to re-evaluate your pick based on listening through a mic’d recording vs when-you-were-right-there, in the room, listening live. The most accurate experience is going to be sitting right in front of it while playing it. That’s how we use this equipment. We don’t record it to YT then listen on our iPads through earphones.
Wow ! That is amazing, isn’it ! Picking one amplifier as being not only the preferred one with lots of winning qualities one but « in a different class » sitting in the room, and then listening through headphones to the recorded session and stating the other one is the better one ! Independent of which amplifier is which, this redefines hi-fi, real-fi and audiophileness all together, inside out and bottom to top ! 😮
Jay,
After living with the M900u for 1.5 years, I bought the M10x just because I had the opportunity, but always want to buy the Gryphon. After living with the M10x, I started to feel than I don't longer need to buy the Gryphon. However, I don't agree about the Luxman homogeneity. I don't feel that this amp sound the same with all recordings, the contrary, the system disappears with good recordings, but collapses with bad ones. The funny thing is that I selected number 1 as the winner!, but I will keep my Luxman for a while and wait for the C900u replacement. Great work.
I live with both...
What difference made the switch from solely replacing the 900U to 10X?
Hi Jay - Thanks for posting a really useful and informative video and for being so honest to publicly change your view. Thanks also for the huge amount of work to run these shootouts - very few dealers would be in a position do run this owing to competing brand affiliations. What amazes me is how the differences are so obvious even over You Tube! To me amp 1 sounds resolving but somehow "tight" and a bit lifeless, whereas amp 2 has a "fluidity" that sounds much more lifelike. I know you don't enjoy classical music, but it could be interesting to include some of that in future shootouts as it can be a tough test for many systems. By the way, I am subscribed and I always like the vids I see - no need to keep repeating - we get it!
Thanks
Taste does change and or even evolve, especially with hi fi, including what your ear holes find pleasing.
Wow ! Great effort and tedious work ! This video truly topples every conception and misconceptions about Hi-Fi and redefines it all together ! Picking one amplifier as being not only « the preferred one » with lots of winning qualities but « in a different class » sitting in the room, and then listening through headphones to the recorded session and stating the other is the better one ! Independent of which amplifier is which, this truly redefines audiophileness all together ! Shocking indeed !😮
Great video Jay. Really enjoy your videos and the work you put into them.
Thanks Scott
It's new technology, it's not that you made a mistake or error not that you are implying that. It's nice to see luxman has stepped up its game to provide a better product unlike some other companies going in reverse. Thank you for providing your feedback as well, I feel t his amp would make a great pairing with a pair of speakers with some sparkle on top, probably a focal or b&w
It takes a lot of courage to be flexible enough to stand up for truth against a previous position, so well done Jay! In this hobby, no brand has a sacred right to occupy top spot, and if a competitor comes along with a superior product it is best to acknowledge that in the interests of truth and credibility. Not all hi-fi reviewers are capable of that, but you have proven you are.
Thanks man
Get Luxman if you want to just sit back and enjoy your music. Get Gryphon if you're going to conduct an analysis of your music. Each amp has its own design philosophy. If it was me, I would pick the Luxman amp, no question asked, I don't want to conduct any analysis of my musical collection!
Wise words!
I picked amplified #2 , and my gut told me it was the Luxman, but I posted the other day that it was probably the Gryphon based on all the thumbs up you were giving to people who preferred amplifier #2, because you previously stated that was your pick for best amplifier under $30K.
😂
It is nice to see when you so attentive to your own questions(which component is better).
👍
I've listened a very clear sound of the first Amp...very nice...i liked it...
It's great too
Validates what I was hearing, really like the Essence.
Really didn't like the luxman sound, less control and excess bass.
I would not kick either amps out if my room. But I did pick amp #2 with all 3 songs. Sounded more musical in my opinion. Not better, just more musical.
They aren't being kicked out
Hi nice video, for this amp, what’s your recommended pre-amp to pair with?
Thanks for the honesty... Great job as always..
Thank you
as a Luxman owner i voted for amp1 because of bass - allthough knowing by heart amp2 definitely was the Lux (mids and airiness)🤣 love it!
Nevertheless i think/hope/pray my 595 (with a bit more Class A beef than the M10X) is a bit smoother and less "harsch" than the M10X
👍
Fun videos for sure! Maybe you already have but consider getting an asmr microphone that can record down to 20hz or 10hz and we'll get a verrry close experience to sitting in your room if we have good iems.
Sure..if more people become a member of my site , that money goes towards those things.
Wow it just shows luxman is awesome amp
👍
Please also let us know the Preamplifier used in both case ..is Preamplifier used is not a factor deciding the different result with different amplifier
That was made very clear in the video - suggest you rewatch it.
@@daveuk1324 thank you
Previous owner of Luxman M9000U. Now owner of Gryphon Essence/Pandora - I don’t have any desire to change this setup.
👍
Jay great Job such a Honest audiophile
Thanks
would like to hear the comparison between with pre-amp and without..
Me too but that ship sailed
I voted for nr 1 Essence and I thought it was more dynamic, clear and 3D sounding. Presentation nr 2 was more relaxed laid back and a little dull actually. It might sound more sweet and pretty in real life. Dunno feels like we only get a hint of how it might be.
👍
Great video comparison Jay. I wonder if we would have reached the same conclusion with the Boulder 3010 in the mix?
Hmm interesting question
Yes, I thought number 2 as well! Sounded really nice and rich!
👍
I pick 1 because 2 is very audiophile.
Love my new Luxman L-507z
Thank you for putting in such painstaking efforts to conduct this shootout! So for the use case of a DAC with a volume out into an amp, the Luxman won. That’s good news for someone who wants to do the same OR has an older Preamp s/he wishes to pair with a new amp. Also, the Gryphon sounded pretty darned good considering the shootout was sans a gryphon preamp.
Wonder if most amps are designed around a preamp from the same brand?I’ve heard (but haven’t delved into this) that the preamp/amp interfaces aren’t necessarily standardized across different brands. One You Tube Channel even noted that at one brand’s amplifier/ preamplifier are DC coupled, and that fact should be taken into consideration when pairing components with that brand..
👍
Interesting… I thought - when reading the title - your favorite (Gryphon) was already your no 1 . Congratulations to your „honesty“ even if it means you have to „correct“ your opinion made in the past.
Thanks !
Does not need to be black and white. In this situation- equipment, room, speakers, music genre and so on the Gryphon showed this X and the Luxman showed that…Y and the choice is yours…
If you’re looking for X then Gryphon if you’re looking for Y then Lux is your answer. Both recommended, just different. Why not this way?
The gryphon essence has a slightly hysterical glassy sound, as I said already against the Pass labs. I chose the Constellation in any case.
Ok
Jay, One question: Which amp really sounds the better when in person and not from a recorded mic?
When you say that ever type of music sounds the same, to me that is a amp which I would not want!
Right, Jay, which amp sounded better in your room? If you didn't listen to the Luxman in the middle, can't you put it back into your rig & compare both "live"?
@@colekyler002 no i can't. The essence isn't mine. It's gone
@@jaysaudiolab That's right, too bad
Do you prefer the Moon 860v2 over the Luxman M10x?
Depends on the rest of the system
Great reviews. Alot of handworks for this shootout .Keep it up.
👍
I prefered 2 & guessed it would be the Luxman. Guess I was right
👍
Jay, great RUclips channel and it fine that you can say your best item for this time then change it at a later date.
Thanks
Bravo, Jay 😊
Thanks
Jay,
Please do the, with vs without Stromtank video! That could be very insteresting and educational. 👍
Can't. I don't have the essence and as far as the stromtank...let's keep it real...most folks can't afford it anyway...
Hello good people. I am the other 1/3rd of the listening panel that experienced the Luxman vs. Gryphon amp shootout @ Jay's place live. I am here to tell you that evening the Gryphon product was 100% vastly superior to the Luxman IMHO, and not just in one aspect or two, but in nearly every important aspect that has to do with sound reproduction. Sorry? :(
Why the resulting mic capture ended up either minimizing, or more shockingly, ended up causing most(?) listeners of this channel to prefer the Luxman amp which was clearly the inferior product during the live session, I certainly cannot explain folks! It is puzzling.
Having said that, I will stick to my initial findings because what I experienced "live" with my own ears trumps any reproduction of the same event via a recording captured on a mobile phone through what is, at best, an amateur level mic. Not to mention that what you guys end up hearing gets further "watered down" by the dreaded RUclips compression.
So, with the highest level of respect towards Jay and not wishing to offend him nor any of his followers, I am sticking to my original impressions.
All my best,
Oswaldo (Oz) Martinez
President
Let There Be Sound, L.L.C.
Hi Oz, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate them. Wondering if you can answer a few questions. So in the recording it seems the lux (#2) had more clarity and resolution than the griffin. But in person I think you’re saying it was the opposite? Asking bc Im looking to upgrade from the m900u because i want more punch and resolution and I’m considering these two amps along with a a used D’agostino S250. Thanks for your response!
@@dde924 Hello! I will stick to my guns and declare the Gryphon the better sounding unit. Again, that's what I heard at Jay's that day and I trust my hearing 100%
@@LetThereBeSound1 thanks. I think what I’m asking is do you think there is a chance Jay got the sound clips mixed up and the #2 amp in the video is actually the griffin? Bc all 3 of you picked the griffin as the amp with better clarity etc. But as you know nearly 90% online picked the opposite. Leading me to believe maybe Jay got the recordings mixed up and the #2 amp is actually the griffin amp…
@@dde924 It is certainly a possibility and a possible explanation for the reversal. But in all honesty, it is unfair for us to speculate. I trust Jay would have not gotten his recordings mixed but at the end, we are all humans and a mistake could have happened.
And if not, I still trust what I heard live over what those recordings show. Simply put, a mobile phone recording that gets further bastardized by the RUclips compression scheme, does not trump what we experienced live. That 90% of the people chose the other amp is of little relevance to me.
Anyway, ideally you will find yourself a quality dealer that will allow you to audition any of these contenders in your own home! That's really the BEST way because at the end it doesn't even matter which amp was best ay Jay's Lab, does it? What matters is which one sounds BEST at your place, with your gear and your acoustics.
Good luck and let me know what you end up with!
@@LetThereBeSound1 thanks for your response. I want what the “#2” amp sounded like through RUclips but based on listening to the three of you talk I’m afraid in real life it might actually be the gryphon that gives that sound in the room. The problem is there isn’t a gryphon dealer near me, seems like only a few in the US. I was just at audio advisors in west palm beach yesterday and listened to the boulder 2060’s on the Alex V and loved it (Out of my price range fn). I’m guessing the gryphon sounds more like the boulder than the luxmans. Boulder amps are made 15 min from my house I’ll keep you posted on what I end up with. A dealer is trying to get me to buy the new krell i400 which there is very few reviews on it. Will need to find one so I can hear it.
What preamp you use to Luxman M10X ?
With C10X it should best the Gryphon Combo
What’s your opinion on naim audio?
None
WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am SHOCKED!!!!!!!! That's why you responded to my comment with the confused face! Cuz I thought amp 2 was the superior amp, as many others did, but I assumed that it was the Gryphon, as I assumed the Gryphon was much more expensive. I was mixing Gryphon up with Boulder. But now we need to see that Luxman against the Boulder! I think the Luxman could possibly beat the Boulder.
They are pretty close on price.
@@daverolson Yes. That was my mistake. I was confusing the Gryphon with the Boulder.
?
Hmm...
Hey Jay. Thanks for your content and thanks for sharing, but it is odd that all three of you unison found the IRL comparison (in front of the amps) to favor the Essence. No question about it. You were all certain. Then after comments starting to coming in and people preferred no 2 (based on a micr. via YT that is all but scientific, mentioned with all respect) there is a change of mind. I would rank the IRL experience 10x the mic-recorded experience. And unfortunately what happened here is that at least speaking for my self I will doubt your self experienced results from now on. We just don´t know what it is you actually hear. Sorry to say. And I don't give that much to what's come via the microphone and YT. It´s fun, but nothing you can base a purchase decision on. Cheers.
I don't like the fact that all music sound the "same" through the Luxman. For that reason alone i would chose the more neutral sounding (revealing) Gryphon Essence
Ok
Jay please reveal the best ever power amplifier soon.
I bet it's the Apex
Become a member of my site and you'd know what amp it is...
I don’t know 🤷♀️ but I will still take gryphon or SimAudio over Luxman
For no good reason at all. Smh
@@Larwiz 😂😂😂
Man I thought 2 was gryphon, it's all good they all good anyways , great work
👍
listening again i noticed the Prat of the piano in song 1 was more realistic. the instruments sounded more clear and real imo with the gryphon. the luxman was a little more full (bloated).
I noticed that too - the Gryphon clearly wins on prat due to it's BJT transistors, but on nearly every other measure the Luxman wins with its well implemented Mosfet trasnsistors. If your favourite type of music is EDM in that case the Gryphon is probably better, but for most other genres the Luxman.
So you are saying your seating made the difference 🤔 Doug
👍
In the under 30k category I’d rate the Classe Delta monoblocks
👍
Gryphon amp 1 was better for my ears. Luxman was airy but it lacks the bass control.
There was more space between the instruments when Gryphon Essence precented the music for me.
👍
In Japan M10X is 10k USD that makes it bargain for the locals
👍
Thanks
Thank you Jay. I wonder. What you would think of the AVM AMP MONOBLOCKS. I've owned them for a long time and I'm really happy with them. I have had a few things in the years of my hobby. But these will remain in my possession for now. No matter what music I listen to. It sounds great. Of course I am satisfied with my high-end equipment... Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht and above all continue with what you are doing. Peace and love and of course coffee beans..... It was interesting the amps.
💯%✌🏾🌍😘☕️👈🏿😉
And of course everything has to do with taste in the end!!! What touches your heart, and what makes you enjoy listening etc.....
Agreed
You are right:the Luxman sounds great on first side but yes all the music you play sounds the same,they pretty the sound up,the Gryphon doesnt play that trick,im in the middle of it,i have a transparant set up myself only my amp has a hint of warmth,but in the end i love both amps of what they do.
Thank you…💯👍🏾
👍😎
Lux was #2?
Yes
The Soundstage seems better on the Luxman
😎
I love what you’re doing on this channel but it seems the same brands keep coming through here calling them the best and there’s so many more at that level. How about Audio net ,Thrax. And a few others
No interest in them
I'm with Andreas. There are several different interpretations of what happened here, and none are good. We watch these channels to help with our selections, and to limit the amount of leg work we have to do on our own. The "switch" that occurred here demonstrates an error based on either bias or technical issues. This shows the limit of this type of content. My take home from this is that I should go into the audio shop, check the piece out in person to ensure I enjoy the aesthetics, and then ask the dealer to email me videos and then go home and make the audible selection from my headphones at home...
Ok lol
Jay, your channel is unique and interesting. Get the Essence back, get a panel of a few other folks, including Luxman fans (Mike B?), and discuss the objective differences you are hearing live...
Jay, you are making me feel 2nd best ....you know I can't afford your exclusive club...ps PS Audio BHK 300 amps ?
Nah man. That's old
Shoot out should have it’s own pre amp
Sure. I agree but if i don't have access to them then what ?
@@jaysaudiolab yes true, just saying
Social bias… I suspect your original analysis was correct Ref sound signatures. So that means both are tops and choice is personal. It turns out you like romancing style sound… seductive. You’ve been influenced by the results. Bottom line? Which would you choose to live with?
Either one. Both are good
I voted for #2. I would of swore it was the Essence.
👍
I remember the m900u have a sweeter top end than the Colosseum from a previous Jay's demo, so was pretty sure amp 2 was the Luxman.
Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed.
Friedrich Nietzsche
👍
The luxman was better for me!!!
This is a truly weird video - so, the Gryphon amp you praise to high heaven elsewhere, has been beaten by a power amp, where everything sounds the same, and you have to buy additional amps to get a difference in sound?
Summing up:
The Gryphon Essence remains the best amplifier under $30,000 or €.
The three people present at the test had all clearly preferred the Essence in the first video.
Only later, after listening to the recording on headphones, Jay's decides to change its vote in favor of Luxman.
But a headphone recording is not the reality, it doesn't have much value in the hifi field.
Indeed below in the comments, the other 2 people present at the test ("Carlos Montenegro" and "Let There Be Sound!" ) confirmed that for them Essence had a huge advantage over M-10X.
He writes: "I am here to tell you that evening the Gryphon product was 100% vastly superior to the Luxman IMHO, and not just in one aspect or two, but in nearly every important aspect that has to do with sound reproduction."
Sorry Jay's, but I find it fair to point it out. You changed your opinion that lasted 2 years and confirmed in the face-to-face comparison, later, after hearing in person. This is also a matter of money and prestige for Essence owners when they go to resell it.
I bought Essence because of you.
I was a Luxman customer and preferred Gryphon for its naturalness, transparency, speed, control and musicality, as well as the flexibility of having 2 amps in 1. Class AB (L mode) and A (H mode).
Luxman won, get over it
Luxman is more refined.
@@AudiolandCH Absolutly not. It's more mellow than Essence.
@lazman with C10X it will be tuff for essence. With which preamp did you hear both?
@@AudiolandCH What mean tuff? C-10X + m-10x very beautifoul, but mellow. Essence Pre + Essence, and Pandora, and a lot of preamp High level in combo with Essence stereo. In any case, I loved and love Luxman. In my opinion they have 2 different approaches. Gryphon transparent, detailed, dynamic, reactive, musical, material, with a beautiful separation of planes. I listen mainly to classical music. But if the chain has problems it makes everyone feel the times. Luxman lovely, pleasant, but it's like sitting in a Mercedes S class, with all the problems and cons. It depends on how much effort you want to make setting up the system and on your personal tastes. Alternatively, I would buy Luxman straight away. I also had great impressions with the Accuphase A-250, I haven't been able to try their mono version yet. Much better than their E600 and E800 integrated ones.
Off axis is where most people in the room are 🤔
It’s the very first time that I heard such an obvious difference in a youtube video… #2 was so obviously better that I really thought It was the Gryphon… Oddly enough, I had a hard time hearing differences between the Luxman, Constellation and Simaudio as they all sound fantastic and very much alike to my ears… Not this time though…
👍😀
Oh and Jay, big sexy Jay, I am wrong ALL the time… and I admit to it all the time too… and I sleep much better at night! 😉
Jay - 3.5 minutes of "subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, join my website, hit the notification bell, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe" is getting too much. Just letting you know. This channel is not The Oscars or The Game of Thrones (yet). Please cut the time repeating that and keep up the good work! Thank you.
If you all listened, i wouldn't repeat myself. Tons of people here watching and not subscribed. RUclips tells me this.
@@jaysaudiolab Well, if people did not want to subscribe after you kept telling them that, spending 3+ minutes in the beginning of the video will likely not change that.
What RUclips may not be telling you is how we feel about that. You are wasting precious time of your faithful subscribers to try convincing the people who don’t want to subscribe. You can think of it as hurting the good guys who are helping your channel to change the bad guys. Not fair to the good guys!
You can’t force people to subscribe and repeating it so many times is starting to annoy your subscribers (or at least that’s what my friends are telling me). Keep up the good work and the subscribers will naturally come and subscribe to your channel without even saying a word about subscribing.
That’s right - you don’t even have to tell people to subscribe. Every RUclips user should know that they can subscribe and get notifications. Or perhaps a reminder at the end of the video for someone who does not know that will be a good place. If there is someone who really likes your channel and watches all your videos but does not know that a channel subscription and notifications are possible, those are the people who will be watching your videos until the end. Let them know at the end, and your faithful subscribers can just skip the last minute of your video. This is what other successful RUclipsrs like the audiphiliac do and the result seems positive with over 220K subscribers.
I do think that being a little bit less aggressive will help your channel grow faster and avoid turning off people you already attracted. There is of course a balance to strike, but I am trying to give you one side (end) of the story. And the suggestion is - go straight to the point in the beginning of the video and move the advertisement to the end.
How is this a legit test. To find the amp for you, you must listen to them in your own personal set up. This is the only way to get an accurate result. The most expensive or so called best may not find the synergy in your system to give the best result. The fact you would do a comparison like this is ridiculous. You know better. This is pure misinformation. Just to let you know I own neither of these products, so there is no bias here.
I love Luxman but I’m telling’ ya Audia Flight crushes it.
👍
Why the apostrophe after the word telling?
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt typo, sorry!
It's new technology, it's not that you made a mistake or error not that you are implying that. It's nice to see luxman has stepped up its game to provide a better product unlike some other companies going in reverse. Thank you for providing your feedback as well, I feel t his amp would make a great pairing with a pair of speakers with some sparkle on top, probably a focal or b&w