The clip abruptly ends here but his point that Titanic is basically a story about how the upper classes feel the desire to get their 'life' back by associating with the lower classes. Rose is basically a poverty tourist. But since Jack dies they never hit the point where the affair grows stale as she realises they have little in common and living in New York in poverty sucks. So Jack lives on immortalised as an idealised vision of the joyful working class person, literally giving his life so rose can live. The iceberg hitting is the point in the film where we conveniently get to stop thinking about class division and just watch spectacle.
I saw/see it as her seeing that the lower class is more free to express themselves & their humanity. And taking the opportunity to enjoy it for, by then, she has been starved of it for 20some years already. What do you think?
@@john-ic5pz I’m paraphrasing what he says in the extended clip. His point is analysing the movie in terms of class dynamics. The idea that essentially poor people are “more free” is the kind of myth he’s deconstructing. It mythologies the idea there’s something noble about a life of poverty that rich people envy. But zizeks point is that in reality being “more free” only seems like it’s great from the comfort of wealth. In real life living as a working class immigrant in the early 1900s would suck, which is why it’s notable the movie completely avoids that part.
@@john-ic5pz to put it another way, the idea that the poor class have more freedom, life, humanity than the wealthy becomes very ironic when you consider that on the actual titanic- the wealthy got first access to the lifeboats. The poor were left to die. So Yeah the poor people get to like, dance more passionately or whatever. But it’s the wealthy who extend their literal life at the expense of the poor.
We're about to experience this in America. The conservative party has become the party of the working class, but now that they have solidified power and their opposition is entirely castrated we will see them be entirely rejuvenated and in doing so will dump the working class
Director: Okay, Zizek, your last line is: The love affair would some how fade away. Zizek: "Tha lavaffer.." Director: No, Zizek, the love affair.. Zizek: "Tha lavaffer.." Director: (applies palm onto face while nodding)
Yes, but Zizek's point here--cut off by the too brief selection--is that the class divide can only be truly dissolved by romance either briefly (an affair, essentially) or in a context where death levels all classes. But Romeo and Juliet are of the same noble class. Thus, their fate, had they lived, would have been a boring marriage of the upper crust from which in time all the thrill would be gone.
and there was me thinking that poor people should know their place and they are only there for the amusement of the wealthy! jack gladly gives his life for rose because as a poor person his life matters no where near as much as hers. he knows his place and happily slips away, never to be seen again. out of sight out of mind. the film is a love letter to capitalism and class surely.
Lower class women on the Titanic survived more than high class men. Look it up. Women are an extra class above all men. Women even survived more than children!
The best part about looking up Zizek is all the people who hate him, and then they actually pay attention or see a video like this, and it's 1.7k likes to 37 dislikes. He is the embodiment of the principle that objective analysis is possible. Every one of us is prewired to hate him, and we end up not hating him.
@@80ki68 because humans are assholes. We are driven by cosmetic synthetic and superficial considerations in almost everything we do to a far greater degree than anyone consciously recognizes or is willing to admit. How else would evolution work? How else except through appearances would we select the appropriate mates at a time when we weren't conscious? Therefore you can see that the blip of conscious and moral thinking is a very small part of our evolutionary history. And because we are never speaking about this and it becomes a taboo in our social discourse, it becomes an irrational antipathy. We have irrational antipathy towards adult males to begin with because they lack neoteny. We have even more antipathy towards unattractive males, towards elderly males, towards disabled males, towards more intelligent males. Therefore he elicits I believe on a first instinct both a disgust reflex mechanism and a resentment dialectic where the psychopathic aspect of men that mocks and ridicules weakness would hate him for his disabilities, while the other aspects of of man the competitive prideful and resentful aspect would hate him that much more because though he is disabled he is that much smarter than me.
do you still remember this 9 years later? after all this time you probably know how to find it now. i do recommend watching his duology of guides to cinema and ideology
From 1.30 onward; hilarious. Both documentaries are very good, awesome even. But i have to watch it again, don't think i fully understood it... 1ste The Pervert's Guide To Cinema (2006) 2nd The Pervert's Guide to Ideology (2012)
How would Z explain the collision with the ice burg? When ship hits the ice burg, ice burg hits the ship. And jack hits rose. Rose hits jack. Ship sinks into the sea, and sea sinks into the ship. Philosopy of tutological binary
This documentary (?) (Zizeks film) is really good. It was way better than I expected. Im fairly sure anyone that likes to think will really enjoy it...he even criticizes communist (not that thats surprising to anyone other than some of these more idiotic commenters)
Of course why wouldn't you criticize communism? Marx criticized capitalism at its height. Even better that we critique ideas before we try to implement them.
You know, intellectual snobbery isn't really that great of a personality trait. People might not know about this stuff, but that doesn't make them idiots. Some are greatly influenced by powerful thoughts and ideas, some are not. And that's quite alright.
Without the iceberg, the movie is suggesting they'll just end up a happy upper middle class couple in the burbs. The marxist theory of the movie is that class 1 and 3 merge together so that there's only one class left. But that's the whole error of marxism, to keep everyone in the same class, you'd need to systematically bash anyone getting above average. So finally you'll be in the soviet system where there is no incentive to do anything more than the minimum, leading to stagnation, superior brains fleeing abroad, idiocraty settling in, then economic collapse. The iceberg collision is representing nature hating averageness and marxism bollocks getting absolutely wrecked on the reef of reality.
you could at a same level say that a life is a catastrophe because after 50-100 years of intense living, life fades away, so is a true catastrophe life after living?No as there is no love after love, story would end at the scenes of intense sex in ny, everything after that doesn't matter :D
In the extended clip he makes his point. the catastrophe isnt that love affairs end, he's talking about the reality of class. Rose is a rich person playing poverty tourism by hanging out with jack for the excitement of seeing how the other half live. If jack had lived she would have inevitably realised that being actually poor sucks. But instead she just gets an idealised fantasy of poverty.
What qas very foolish to say what rose her suitor husband not to be said Titanic greatist machine ever built by man in all of history..even god himself couldnt sink it how arrogant was that!! Well as history showed it was sinkable and it did sink Molly Brown too?!
He doesn't have a fake sympathy for the working class. The people who pay to see this film are the DeCaprio's of the world not the millionaires, that's why he portrays them as heros. DeCaprio is you.
Watch the whole damn documentary and youll see what hes saying. Lower class person and upper class person fall in love but upper class person is really using him for her own self image and then she literally pushes him away, poor person dies after being of service and rich person lives...and then the message is basically rich person has to grow up and stop flirting with being in love with the poor, than rich person frames the narrative of who the poor is/are.....I didnt really notice it until I watched Zizeks film, its there in the subtext of Titanic. I was in the military and he does an analysis of Full Metal Jacket and what he said was spot on the same conclusion I came to after thinking about it for a long time. Zizek isnt a dummy, the film is more than worth it, it was way better than I expected. Decaprio is you, and you got fucked
@@whatabouttheearth james cameron more than made up for this with avatar, a film in which the united states military gets fucking washed by the viet cong
Are you saying that Communists shouldn't be compensated for their labor? That's the entire point of Communism. Furthermore, in a Communist society, Sophie and Zizek could make a movie, release it, then go to the market to enjoy their daily bread. But alas, we live in a Capitalistic society, if spend their time making a film and release it for free, then they will starve. And that's precisely why Capitalism is so terrible.
Because the production company has the rights to the film, and that's the real capitalism there. Even James Cameron's labor is exploited by the producers.
Yeah, the anti copyright folks are usually anarchist not communist, communists are all about being paid deservingly for their labor, anarchists are more about laboring to see how broke we can get in the process.
I didnt see class & insincerity. I saw it as her living how she'd prefer & thus learning to push back against her domineering environment. but yeah, total male sacrifice fetish move at the end there, James.
Um... the Titanic really did hit that iceberg... so I'm wondering how a historic event has anything to do with Marxism... oh, and not all the rich people in the movie are bad, and not all of the lower-class people are simpletons, either. Has this guy even watched Titanic to its fullest extent???? Think people try to read too much into movies... guys, it's just entertainment... and some tragedy...
He's talking about the movie and not the historic event, and most movies are literally made so that people can read something into it, even if they aren't people should be encouraged to do so
Wayyyyy too much money goes into movies for them to be simple entertainment. Ideology, marketing, and politics drive much of the choices about what gets the nod to go to production.
The clip abruptly ends here but his point that Titanic is basically a story about how the upper classes feel the desire to get their 'life' back by associating with the lower classes. Rose is basically a poverty tourist. But since Jack dies they never hit the point where the affair grows stale as she realises they have little in common and living in New York in poverty sucks. So Jack lives on immortalised as an idealised vision of the joyful working class person, literally giving his life so rose can live. The iceberg hitting is the point in the film where we conveniently get to stop thinking about class division and just watch spectacle.
I saw/see it as her seeing that the lower class is more free to express themselves & their humanity. And taking the opportunity to enjoy it for, by then, she has been starved of it for 20some years already.
What do you think?
@@john-ic5pz I’m paraphrasing what he says in the extended clip. His point is analysing the movie in terms of class dynamics. The idea that essentially poor people are “more free” is the kind of myth he’s deconstructing. It mythologies the idea there’s something noble about a life of poverty that rich people envy. But zizeks point is that in reality being “more free” only seems like it’s great from the comfort of wealth. In real life living as a working class immigrant in the early 1900s would suck, which is why it’s notable the movie completely avoids that part.
@@john-ic5pz to put it another way, the idea that the poor class have more freedom, life, humanity than the wealthy becomes very ironic when you consider that on the actual titanic- the wealthy got first access to the lifeboats. The poor were left to die. So Yeah the poor people get to like, dance more passionately or whatever. But it’s the wealthy who extend their literal life at the expense of the poor.
No no Rose just wants to get fucked by Jack before settling with the chad rich guy. It’s not that deep lmfao
We're about to experience this in America. The conservative party has become the party of the working class, but now that they have solidified power and their opposition is entirely castrated we will see them be entirely rejuvenated and in doing so will dump the working class
"Her getting off the boat with him would have been the true catastrophe" 🤣💀💀💀
I doubt that anything will ever match Zizek's "intense sex in New York" in thick Slavic accent
eyntaentss syeksz inuuyork
Very nice fragment, but his mini-essay on Titanic doesn't end here. He has some wonderful things to say about the actual ending of the film too.
Link?
@@facundopradells3792 Link?
Link?
@@flyingkitesatnight Not everything is a mouse-click away. Buy the movie!
@@erwinwoodedge4885 Okay lamiod.
I love how his chills were only felt momentarily...
his rage against capitalism heated him right up.
You going to ruin every over idealized romance with reality, Zizek?
Zizek: "Yes."
@@cannonfodder8287 Zizek is CHAD
He singlehandedly accomplished that and he only needed this one movie to do so.
Every college cinema class ever.
Director: Okay, Zizek, your last line is: The love affair would some how fade away.
Zizek: "Tha lavaffer.."
Director: No, Zizek, the love affair..
Zizek: "Tha lavaffer.."
Director: (applies palm onto face while nodding)
Same for Romeo and Juliet. If they had lived same could have happened.
Following Hegelian insight, these romances are only perfect precisely because of the perceived imperfection (they end abruptly).
Yes, but Zizek's point here--cut off by the too brief selection--is that the class divide can only be truly dissolved by romance either briefly (an affair, essentially) or in a context where death levels all classes. But Romeo and Juliet are of the same noble class. Thus, their fate, had they lived, would have been a boring marriage of the upper crust from which in time all the thrill would be gone.
Not really. The key difference being the families were "alike in dignity".
We must now pose the question:
What really sunk The Titanic? The iceberg, or Zizek?
Like in the famous song, Rose wanted to live the common people
and there was me thinking that poor people should know their place and they are only there for the amusement of the wealthy! jack gladly gives his life for rose because as a poor person his life matters no where near as much as hers. he knows his place and happily slips away, never to be seen again. out of sight out of mind. the film is a love letter to capitalism and class surely.
no its just a movie about a boat getting hit by an iceberg and sinking.
Film about big ice cube and big floaty metal raft and smart monke in floaty sum hav lot of paper sum not. Girl monke n boy monke want ooga booga
Lower class women on the Titanic survived more than high class men. Look it up. Women are an extra class above all men. Women even survived more than children!
I think it’s more that sacrifices himself as a man for his woman, rather than a class thing
The best part about looking up Zizek is all the people who hate him, and then they actually pay attention or see a video like this, and it's 1.7k likes to 37 dislikes. He is the embodiment of the principle that objective analysis is possible. Every one of us is prewired to hate him, and we end up not hating him.
I don't remember ever hating him.
Why do u think everyone starts off hating him?
@@80ki68 because humans are assholes. We are driven by cosmetic synthetic and superficial considerations in almost everything we do to a far greater degree than anyone consciously recognizes or is willing to admit. How else would evolution work? How else except through appearances would we select the appropriate mates at a time when we weren't conscious? Therefore you can see that the blip of conscious and moral thinking is a very small part of our evolutionary history.
And because we are never speaking about this and it becomes a taboo in our social discourse, it becomes an irrational antipathy. We have irrational antipathy towards adult males to begin with because they lack neoteny. We have even more antipathy towards unattractive males, towards elderly males, towards disabled males, towards more intelligent males. Therefore he elicits I believe on a first instinct both a disgust reflex mechanism and a resentment dialectic where the psychopathic aspect of men that mocks and ridicules weakness would hate him for his disabilities, while the other aspects of of man the competitive prideful and resentful aspect would hate him that much more because though he is disabled he is that much smarter than me.
?
you obviously haven't read Zizek if you think he is attempting to do "objective" analysis
Zizek DESTROYS Titanic
AKA he tells it like it is for those who have the courage for Truth.
Is this video really no more than 2 minutes? If so does anyone know where I can find the rest of this? I felt like it ended too abruptly. 💔
Pervert's Guide to Ideology
do you still remember this 9 years later? after all this time you probably know how to find it now. i do recommend watching his duology of guides to cinema and ideology
OMG he had a whole boat to himself, he couldv'e saved Jack!
you can download the full thing from the pirate bay ;)
After one minute I realized it's not a movie fragment
From 1.30 onward; hilarious.
Both documentaries are very good, awesome even. But i have to watch it again, don't think i fully understood it...
1ste The Pervert's Guide To Cinema (2006)
2nd The Pervert's Guide to Ideology (2012)
I want to watch a movie directed by Zizek 😂
Rose would realize she’s with a poor man. She would struggle.
How would Z explain the collision with the ice burg?
When ship hits the ice burg, ice burg hits the ship. And jack hits rose. Rose hits jack. Ship sinks into the sea, and sea sinks into the ship.
Philosopy of tutological binary
Well, isn't Revolutionary Road the sequel to The Titanic?
No it isn't it doesn't even make any sense
No relation between Titanic and RR, but it could probably could be seen as how Jack and Rose would have lived if they had survived@@lennygriffin2761
This documentary (?) (Zizeks film) is really good. It was way better than I expected.
Im fairly sure anyone that likes to think will really enjoy it...he even criticizes communist (not that thats surprising to anyone other than some of these more idiotic commenters)
Of course why wouldn't you criticize communism? Marx criticized capitalism at its height. Even better that we critique ideas before we try to implement them.
You know, intellectual snobbery isn't really that great of a personality trait. People might not know about this stuff, but that doesn't make them idiots. Some are greatly influenced by powerful thoughts and ideas, some are not. And that's quite alright.
Now that I think about it, he's absolutely right
can't wait for this!
kiitos
The door
The whistle
what am i doing here and so on
*Sniffs*
Where's the rest?
oh come on don't cut it like that! :)
strongly recommended! thought provoking!
Without the iceberg, the movie is suggesting they'll just end up a happy upper middle class couple in the burbs.
The marxist theory of the movie is that class 1 and 3 merge together so that there's only one class left. But that's the whole error of marxism, to keep everyone in the same class, you'd need to systematically bash anyone getting above average.
So finally you'll be in the soviet system where there is no incentive to do anything more than the minimum, leading to stagnation, superior brains fleeing abroad, idiocraty settling in, then economic collapse.
The iceberg collision is representing nature hating averageness and marxism bollocks getting absolutely wrecked on the reef of reality.
Yes,that ending :)
damn this is so true
Listen to your friend Bill Zane! He's a cool dude!
Active subtitles 😂
That one Makes me laugh! Haha
Deleted scene
hahahaha
you could at a same level say that a life is a catastrophe because after 50-100 years of intense living, life fades away, so is a true catastrophe life after living?No as there is no love after love, story would end at the scenes of intense sex in ny, everything after that doesn't matter :D
In the extended clip he makes his point. the catastrophe isnt that love affairs end, he's talking about the reality of class. Rose is a rich person playing poverty tourism by hanging out with jack for the excitement of seeing how the other half live. If jack had lived she would have inevitably realised that being actually poor sucks. But instead she just gets an idealised fantasy of poverty.
I know what the iceberg represents... Pandemic.
And so on, and so on.
I'm here
unable to understand because of heavy accent
😂😂
Hahahah
What qas very foolish to say what rose her suitor husband not to be said Titanic greatist machine ever built by man in all of history..even god himself couldnt sink it how arrogant was that!! Well as history showed it was sinkable and it did sink Molly Brown too?!
lol
He doesn't have a fake sympathy for the working class. The people who pay to see this film are the DeCaprio's of the world not the millionaires, that's why he portrays them as heros. DeCaprio is you.
Watch the whole damn documentary and youll see what hes saying.
Lower class person and upper class person fall in love but upper class person is really using him for her own self image and then she literally pushes him away, poor person dies after being of service and rich person lives...and then the message is basically rich person has to grow up and stop flirting with being in love with the poor, than rich person frames the narrative of who the poor is/are.....I didnt really notice it until I watched Zizeks film, its there in the subtext of Titanic.
I was in the military and he does an analysis of Full Metal Jacket and what he said was spot on the same conclusion I came to after thinking about it for a long time.
Zizek isnt a dummy, the film is more than worth it, it was way better than I expected.
Decaprio is you, and you got fucked
@@whatabouttheearth james cameron more than made up for this with avatar, a film in which the united states military gets fucking washed by the viet cong
If hes such a communist why doesnt he put it up on the internet for all to see?
Are you saying that Communists shouldn't be compensated for their labor? That's the entire point of Communism. Furthermore, in a Communist society, Sophie and Zizek could make a movie, release it, then go to the market to enjoy their daily bread. But alas, we live in a Capitalistic society, if spend their time making a film and release it for free, then they will starve. And that's precisely why Capitalism is so terrible.
Oh and communism is never terrible is it? Come now!
steven steinbrink Never terrible.
Because the production company has the rights to the film, and that's the real capitalism there. Even James Cameron's labor is exploited by the producers.
Yeah, the anti copyright folks are usually anarchist not communist, communists are all about being paid deservingly for their labor, anarchists are more about laboring to see how broke we can get in the process.
People simply don't understand communism. It's clear in the comment you replied.
The most decorated evil film in history
No
I didnt see class & insincerity. I saw it as her living how she'd prefer & thus learning to push back against her domineering environment. but yeah, total male sacrifice fetish move at the end there, James.
Um... the Titanic really did hit that iceberg... so I'm wondering how a historic event has anything to do with Marxism... oh, and not all the rich people in the movie are bad, and not all of the lower-class people are simpletons, either.
Has this guy even watched Titanic to its fullest extent????
Think people try to read too much into movies... guys, it's just entertainment... and some tragedy...
He's talking about the movie and not the historic event, and most movies are literally made so that people can read something into it, even if they aren't people should be encouraged to do so
Wayyyyy too much money goes into movies for them to be simple entertainment. Ideology, marketing, and politics drive much of the choices about what gets the nod to go to production.
@@davideanes3425 you're somewhat right. I think movies are, first and foremost, pure entertainment -- then some politics and the rest sweep in.
Why are you defending that shitty movie
hes one of those prentious dudes who think they know everything but in reality they dont
Amazing how Cum Town made almost exactly the same point