Metal Gear's Violence is Secretly Brilliant! | Game/Show | PBS Digital Studios
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- Опубликовано: 26 окт 2015
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What with all those scars, amputations and torture scenes in Metal Gear???
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With torture, mutilation, and gruesome surgeries, Metal Gear doesn't pull any punches when it comes to gore. The 11 game series has plenty of praise for its story and gameplay, but what about it's violence? Is there a hidden purpose behind it, or is it just bloody fun? On this episode of Game Show, Jamin looks into Hideo Kojima's brainchild, and explains why violence in the Metal Gear series could be a statement for much more.
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ASSET LINKS:
2:01
Kill Screen Daily: "The Strange Body politics of Hideo Kojima" by David Shimomura
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2:25
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3:13
Metal Gear Solid Wiki Page: Amputations
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MUSIC:
"Oh Damn!" by CJVSO
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"Mindphuck" by Known To Be Lethal
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"After Hours"
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"Sleet" by Kubbi
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Hosted by Jamin Warren (@jaminwar)
See more on games and culture on his site: www.killscreendaily.com
Made by Kornhaber Brown (www.kornhaberbrown.com)
The point about the violence in Metal Gear serving a greater narrative point is made pretty clear and obvious in MGS as a whole. Snake's shown to have PTSD in Metal Gear 2 and in Solid, Raiden's past as a child soldier(as Jack the Ripper) is heavily played in MGS2, the ghosts of the people and animals you have murdered show up in MGS3, MGS4 goes really deep into it. Take out a heavy machine gun and fire it and keep firing and you will get straight up told violence is bad and you are bad for causing all this violence.
Then there's the Skulls Unit...
What's notable isn't how well Kojima writes these scenarios and these themes. He's notable for even talking about them in the first place. I mean, where else can you play a war shooter that talks about the impact of cultural erasure and domination?
+taitaisanchez All fantastic points! -jj
Well, the majority of MGS violence can actually happen to soldiers. Being, how you said, a series of games about soldiers being transformed in weapons.. It would be like talking about the Holocaust without never showing images of the malnourished corpses discovered by the Allies. It's not strictly necessary to explain the genocide per se, but it teally makes you understand the horror of the event. Being in a way loyal to its ingame logic, Raiden's amputation and other amenities are the logical consequence of Kojiima's depiction of reality.
I think this holds up but the violence has been used for so many reasons. Plot (liquid's arm on ocolot) , metaphor (the Phantom Pain), Dehumanization (Jack's torture in MGS 2), Mechanics (Shoot a dude in the leg), Player Intent (tranq vs bullet runs), Cultural Connections (best shown in MGS 4), the continued state of war in any era, and so on. It's a game about war. It's a game about fighting for peace. To simplify the violence in the series to a singular point is to kind of limit your engagement.
+Wednesday's Serial Yes there is a lot to dissect. Pun not intended! -jj
1:16 Shows Sniper wolf when talking about the End okay then.....
I noticed that too
+Adammyers1995 I was hearing a description of Vulcan Raven with the shamanistic thing.
+Ularg Yeah, actually, The End wasn't shamanistic. Jamin, I think you've got your references mixed up.
+Adammyers1995 I think we've actually got a three way mix up of Sniper Wolf, Vulcan
Raven AND the End. Because the sleeping and parrot are the End, but he's
not shamanistic in the least. So quite the cluster of mixups there.
I think he was being metaphorical.
But yeah, definitely hit the wrong file when selecting that picture.
People have been saying the MGS games are "secretly brilliant" for years.
+Paradox Acres He's talking about specifically it's use of gory violence, not just the games in general being brilliant.
+Paradox Acres he said a bit more than that
Wrong photo used for the "shamanistic sniper" - that would be The End, not Sniper Wolf
+Zaro215 apologies! -jj
+PBS Game/Show I love so much that metal gear is a game series where you can mistakenly refer to a shamanistic sniper and not be wrong, just talking about the wrong character. And, i mean, the end wasn't shamanistic. That was the native american shaman, vulcan raven, who carried around a mini gun. Once again proving my point that metal gear is ridiculously great.
I've never actually noticed that there is a lot of violence in MGS. It's never used just for the sake of it. It's always explained in a satisfying way.
nuCLEAR. Not nuke-you-ler
+Eric Euchler I'M NUUUKEYOULAAAAAR
I'M WIIIIILD
That scene with Paz in MGS 5: Ground Zeroes... Yeah I know it's graphic and it must've made a lot of us wretch, but it's done well enough to make us realize just how dark war truly is.
I definitely agree that there is much more to the violence, gore, etc., that is seen in each Metal Gear game.
One of the strongest points I can think of as an example is the opening of Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain. The very opening of the game. Before you can get to any menu to choose your difficulty or decide to turn down the gore effects or other options, you immediately see through the eyes of Venom Snake waking up from his coma. His "sight" starts out very blurry and moving randomly, and you as the player can barely control which way Snake's sight moves. After gaining consciousness and beginning to gain a grasp of the situation through talks with the doctor, that control is taken away again when you see an operative sneak into your room while the doctor is trying to talk to you.
You see her take out the nurse, then work her way towards the doc, all the while the player is unable to inform them of their fates. You have no control to scream, and that's when she finally gets her sights on her main objective, Snake. Note the use of objective; Snake is not a human to this assassin, nor a soldier. He is an obstacle that needs to be cleared.
That's when Ishmael saves the character, but at the cost of setting the assassin aflame. From there, gradually working your way through the hospital, you see more and more people, people who may not even know why they're being targeted, being slain in masses.
Throughout the opening, there's this underlying feeling of dread and disgust. All of these people are dying gruesomely without knowing why. Why are they being hunted? Why would anyone do this? The reason is simply because you, the player/Snake, are in the same hospital as them.
The entire opening level fills starts with the player having almost no control, but as they gradually gain control, more and more horrific events take place.
Dread, disgust, discomfort, all of these exist in the entire Metal Gear series for more reason than just shock value. They exist to drive the point home; War is hell. Dehumanization is hell. Human life holds incredible potential and value.
That isn't to say the entire game series is nothing but disgust. Metal Gear Solid on the PS1 has an amazing message at the end of it. As Solid Snake (Spoiler alert!) comes to terms with the fact that the FOXDIE virus that now runs through his body will end up being the death of him at an unknown point, he is told by Dr. Naomi one simple bit of advice:
"Live." Live your life as greatly as you can, live each day to it's fullest.
Nuclear.
+Playongo i know. I haven't actually made it 35 seconds in because i just keep playing it back going. did he... no.... did he...
wait a second. violence in video games isn't all about misogyny?!
you got yourself a thumbs up right there. well done!
MGS is one giant anti-war message. The violence is to show the violence of war and how gruesome and relatively unnecessary war is. It's to show that dehuamnization (as mentioned) but also the total brutality and make you take part and understand the decisions and the exploitation of soldiers for the causes of others besides their own.
I think the most briliant mechanic in a MGS game to date was the fight with the Sorrow in Snake Eater. If you rampaged through the game killing without consequence, you encountered all those soldiers in the river. I don't know about anyone else, but it was the first time a game ever made me feel guilty for killing the badies.
Whenever I kill an enemy in a MGS game I feel so bad. The blood and animations really drive home the horror of violence.
This video had me realizing that I'm completely desensitized to gore in games. I read the title and thought, "MGS 5 wasn't really violent at all."
Whether or not the violence has a deeper meaning doesn't determine whether it's "for its own sake", or not. Depth and purpose are unrelated. So even if the violence is meaningful, it may be "for thrills".
Depictions of violence may have profound significance for society and/or people, generally, but that doesn't mean the profundity, too, won't be gobbled up like popcorn, and forgotten. We quite casually consume some pretty damn hard core media, and I think it's clear that we like oscillating, between hard core convictions and idle play.
Violence always has a deeper element, and people, knowingly or not, indulge in it. We could never have the "cheap thrills" without the disavowed depth.
This reminds me of when I was playing GZ and I heard these to guys talking about the prisoner about to be executed and one guy said "if you see him, tell him no hard feelings." I felt bad about having killed so many of the soldiers who are US marines. Then one spotted me and I murdered them both.
I felt similarly about the sky-hook melee attacks in Bioshock Infinite. I don't think a lot of people saw it that way...
You know what would be cool? An episode on the new game undertale and its use of mechanics as metaphor, as well as a commentary on many common tropes of RPGs (level grinding, item shops, boss fights, etc).
MGS is a great series, one of the greatest actually. Hideo Kojima doesn't only break the 4th wall like no other games but also pioneered movie-like video games genre. However, I've recently been reading 'Metal Gear Solid' by Anthony and Ashly Burch and they give a totally different, controversial and unexpected opinion on the game they love. You should check it out!
I think if it was just violence for violence's sake, the game would be a lot more gruesome outside of the cutscenes. You never disembowel someone or tear their limbs off when you're just playing the game.
Solid argument.
I personally fall on the side that the graphic nature of the scenes are trying to speak to us.
Because they are not just a chain of random gore but carefully placed pieces in a game that has so many other options available most of the time.
While we may disagree on what he is trying to say, I would say he is clearly trying to say something, probably a few things.
Honestly, these are actually my thoughts on the violence of Metal Gear as well. It's a brilliant way to show how gratuitous war can be. Something that the majority of war themed games rarely do well, if at all.
On Pink Games, interestingly enough, my boyfriend cares more about how his character dresses in Skyrim than I do. He even got mods to add cloaks, unenchanted armor that he liked, and better hairstyles. On the other hand, I pick my character's outfit entirely by stat bonuses. She's a khajiit wearing a smattering of thieves guild and dark brotherhood, with Cicero's ugly jester hat.
0:51
Geeeezs man spoilers!??
Not for me, but damn..
Ah...FASHION Souls. Accessorize your armor with the blood and spirits of your enemies.
The answer's yes. It is violent and gruesome, partially due to what the technical advancements allow. In previous games, it was harder to detail the violence effectively. So as the technology allowed more freedom, more developers, like Hideo Kojima, just creating in even more unrestrained ways.
On the other side, the brilliant side, you can see the purpose of the violence and the horrific presentation partially through the narrative design and some of the dialogue. The narrative design and dialogue makes constant reference to people not has humans, but as tools. It's also why things like the nuclear AI storyline of Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker has the machines, the tools themselves, taking on more human personalities for better or for worse.
+JGronli I like your point there. I think the cogs of war machine idea are also heavily pointed to in MGS4 and Reverence which are in timeline the furthest along, so I think there's something to that as well.
Am I the only one who has known this since MGS1 because it's constantly spelled out for you in every game?
So basically Metal Gear is like a bizzaro honest version of Transformers: Prime? If you humanised the machine soldiers in that it would be really horrifying:
* Someone dies in the first episode when the villain thrusts his hand into their chest.
* The evil mastermind cuts the arm off of a dead person to replace his own to use some kinda ~biometrically locked equipment.
* Someone is dismembered and then sown back together to become someone else's body.
* One of the main characters can't speak because their voice box has been crushed.
And dissection and torture and organ theft and other fun things happen, etc.
Seriously if you watch the show, try watching it whilst imagining that all the giant robots were actual human beings. It adds a whole new level to that scene where a guy's eyeball gets taken out turned into a video camera and left for his friends to find.
I would totally buy the argument on the use of violence in MGS if it wasn't for the madness of stuff like "oh Slient is naked because she breaths through her skin" so much of it seem to be done carelessly and with out any thought for the story or message (mechanically it is insanely detailed) that it does feel like over reach other than in a purely "oh i read this the other day lets stick some of that in there" kind of way. scatter shot and totally random.
I haven't played any Metal Gear since the NES.
With the premise of the entire game being stopping a giant Mech, it was disappointing to have it simply be background for the final combat.
1:15 STOP STOP ! "THE END (MGS 3) " and " SNIPER WOLF (MGS 1) " are to different people
Nice pick on the music by Kubbi! He's awesome.
+Onuma thanks! -jj
A very important part is that these graphic violence happens in the cutscenes - it is not the player him/herself that actively doing them; this is optional. During the game the player can choose to take down enemies lethal or non-lethal, and even avoid the enemies totally. There is only a couple specific parts of all Metal Gear games where you are required to kill enemies. The player is actually more rewarded (read get better high-score), by not killing them. Metal Gear shows the worst elements of war, but the player has the option to not be as equally cruel. I see this as important because for a game which has war as a theme it takes a anti-war approach to it with the player's freedom to choose. If you are going to promote anti-war, then it should be presented the way it is in a game with war as a theme, or else you are not targeting the correct audience.
MGS does a lot of it's commentary by showing something, and playing rather then just explaining it. Another easy comentary to make is that the MGS complex story shows how war is also complex.
1) "...to the vast and beautiful swan song that is and was MGSV."
2) Shows Sniper Wolf when discussing The End
3) "Raid-en"
Is this video satire?
kojima stated that he wants to show that violence is wrong by showing people violence. i gues the presentation differs when it comes to violence for violence's sake or violence for deeper meaning's sake
i remember playing mgs2 totally stealth but then i was disguised as an enemy with an assault rifle and i dont know if anyone remembers the awkward controls on the ps2 with this pressure sensitive buttons but i accidently shot someone when i meant to rob him i was so shocked at shooting him in first person like everyone up into that point i had knocked out or avoided
0:28 And a grown man wetting himself.
I never really noticed much gore in Metal Gear Solid 5. To me it seems less intense and less memorable if the violence and gore are in cut scenes because you are disconnected from it. You aren't actively controlling your character but just watching from the side. Games like Dead Space and Gears of War have a much more intense connection with gore and violence. The gore is a main part of the game and you are controlling your character to make that violence happen. Whether it be cutting apart a necromorph in Dead Space or chopping a locust in half with the Lancer in Gears of War. In Metal Gear when you shoot an enemy solider in the head with a sniper rifle, all you see is a small blood spurt. In Gears of War when you shoot an enemy in the head with a sniper rifle, their head explodes dramatically with blood, skull, and brain spewing out. I think having gore in the game play of a war game adds to the connection you have to the story. You experience the brutality of your characters situation first hand rather than through uncontrolled cut scenes. Looking back to one of your other videos about how you are your avatar and you form memories like it was actually you in the situation, having the intense moments of a game when you are actually in control would make them more memorable. Using gore in cut scenes to make your audience uncomfortable is just like using that trick in a movie. If the player cannot control the situation, that is taking away one of the main things that makes games special, the interactivity.
0:26 "Nucular-enabled mechs"
I want more video games that are similar to torture porn movies like Saw and Hostel.
I loved the episode! But doesn't it make more sense to call amputation and torture Motiffs instead of themes? It seems they are the vehicles which drives the major themes of the series. (i.e the human cost of war etc...)
+Gaben Newell That is exactly right. In his opinion the themes of the series would be: the brutality of war, humanity being kept hostage by large military complexes, and the dehumanization of soldiers. The various images of violence (including amputation) would be used as a motif, symbolism, analogy, etc...
+Gaben Newell Good point. Equally good avatar! -jj
Possible mixup... Sniper Wolf instead of The End? Who do we fire? #LOL
great vídeo!
how about make a vídeo about "The biguinners guide"!!!
I can wait til Persona 5 comes out I bet this and many other channels will have a ball analyzing it
A little of column A, a little of column B. Kojima absolutely has trouble knowing when to rein it in and the MGS series tends to go overboard as result. But the MGS series has also often tried to hammer home a critique of war. It's no coincidence that when your performance in the game is scored, it subtracts points for killing people (and since there's usually cool item unlocks tied to getting higher mission scores this means the game often directly punishes players for playing violently). And of course, a personal favorite, in MGS3 one of the boss fights is variably easier or harder depending on how violent you've been running throughout the game.
I wouldn't call it secret so much as it runs counter to the typical gaming convention. Games where the player is meant to kill their way through anything that moved had been dime a dozen, and arguably still are - but then here came a game series whose mechanics actively punished you for it, and not just in scoring and rewards. Shot a guard? He screamed as he died, and now his buddies are coming to investigate, hampering your progress. Got noticed because you're playing too aggressively? Now the enemy is attacking you en masse and best case scenario is you're stuck hiding for a long time until the alert ends; worst case is you're restarting from the last save.
+classchair Quite a well reasoned answer. -jj
I still need a ps, ps2, ps3 and ps4 to try all these games :(
+Miguel Dubois Actually, you can get the entire series on PS3. The MGS Legacy Collection includes all of the Metal Gear Solid games through 4 and the MSX Metal Gear games.
I didn't know. Thanks, someday I will search them and buy them
not watched the video yet: well, you know, mgs games promote not killing anyone, so the moment you see a bit of gore you feel contradicted.
As an anime fan, this is a common thread in a lot of the more adult animes - this idea of exporing multiple issues, social and political, under the surface of the story. So, it's not so surprising that the same theme pops up in a game series written and produced by a Japanese man from that same cultural background. (assuming I haven't miscultured/misnationalized Mr Kojima) And I don't think, at that point, that this idea is reading too much into it. There very well is more to these games than the surface gore and shock value.
0:27 Did he just say "nucular?" It's NU-CLE-AR. Everyone mispronounces it
Title should've said 'Phantom Pain's violence', thought you were going to talk about MGS in general.
Spoiler warning next time, k? :T
he said himself it is becouse that he wanted to show that even if you come back from war... then you arent yourself anymore... you are missing somthing
You feel it too, don't you?
Orwell wasn't referring to violence??
I always call these games Edgy Gear Solid.
what about the special relationship Japanese have with blood?
she told me not to come this early again. :(
You didn't play MGS 1 2 or 3 did you ?
*Crawling in my skin...*
+DragoSonicMile thats a song
I didn't think mgs was so gory.
It is quite realistically gory for a game which is very based on sci fi fantasy.
"nookyular" smh
not the second!
FIRST FOR SALAMITHROPUS!
If Kojima *is* making intentional political statements with the character's bodies, then that makes his presentation of female characters pretty darn troubling.
I'ma guess he's pretty much going for titillation and shock value.
Wonderful series in all. At least until they ruin it and make it a mobile game series
Haven't read if anyone has said anything about this but Hideo's war politics are easy to see in the gameplay. Make a pacifist run with the tranq gun through 2 and 3 and the fights with The Sorrow and The End will smack you in the face with his politics. You're activly punished for killing and rewarded for not.
Hold on, at the end when you're answering questions from last week's video, did you seriously equate equipping matching items for stat boosts as having come from "pink" games? You realize that Dungeon's and Dragons has been around since the 70's, right?
+Butterworthy Maybe you could listen to the sentence that comes right after the one that triggered you.
Don't say "nukular".
I wouldn't call this "secretly brilliant." The games make it very apparent that war is bad, and the violence is one of the ways it shows this, without any subtlety. The first Solid has people monologue about how war is ugly, has ruined their lives while they're bleeding out. Of all the details or overlooked themes in the Metal Gear games, the brutality of war is hardly a secretly brilliant aspect.
+darthnazgul True, but would you say that people who are not familiar with the series look and it and misjudge it? -jj
DON'T SHOW SPOILERS!!!! WTF!!!!
Are we maybe reading too heavily into "Kojima's brilliance"? Do all of the convoluted stories in his games make him a genius because theyre so complicated, or are they simply just a bunch of unorganized and random incoherent stories that have no deep meaning? It reminds me of the expression (and the documentary) My Kid Could Paint That. If his stories -- and his over-use of violence outlined in this video -- are so over-the-top, does that make them brilliant or does it make them immature? My money is on the latter. (and I don't have a problem with immaturity, im just sayin' let's not give him too much credit for things he maybe didn't intend)
solid point...and can you say more on this documentary??? it peaked my interest...
+Chris Dobbs there are gaffs sure. But the story by and large holds up. MGS is certainly a lot further down the 'mature' route than most video games. Of course there are the human moments and the weird pervy stuff, but all of that juxtaposed with the heavy handed stuff for why we're there fit the militaristic theme.
If you don't think MGS is mature what in your opinion is ?
+Chris Dobbs I wouldn't consider the overall story anywhere close to "genius", as it's pretty haphazardly put together with major retcons and constant new characters. However, Kojima and his studio seem aware of this and even go out of their way to poke fun at that. If you look at the games as individual pieces, they are much more coherent: MGS1 commentates on the player's motives for seeking violence in a video game while being fixated on themes of predetermination; MGS2 questions the players' desire for a sequel when confirmation bias will create false expectations; MGS3 is a homage to 1960s spy flicks that ends up subverting its own cliches to tell a story about changing sides and a fall from grace; and so on. I think there's enough going on in each individual game to credit Kojima for being at least somewhat clever, and he's gone out of his way to say there's a theme in every game "gene, meme, scene..."
A lot to do with Metal Gear is commentary and taking things to the extreme to prove a point. Metal Gear Solid 2's plot was both disappointing (playing as Raiden and not Solid Snake) and ridiculous (Liquid possessing Ocelot) to make commentary about sequels for this very reason. MGS2 did exactly the opposite of what players wanted to prove a point. MGSV has Quiet as a subtle commentary about scantily clad female characters in game. MGS3 was a prequel when everyone wanted to see the end of the Patriot storyline set up in MG2. So in a way, Metal Gear and Kojima have always tried to lie, misdirect and satirize the topics it struggles with. They do this with gore too. Kojima uses bloody and ridiculous violence to an extreme. The player assumes Kojima's just a violent psychopath who loves gore, but really he's exaggerating gore so that the player understands just how horrible these situations can be.
do Americans pronounce it that way? i thought it was just a problem George Bush had
Please learn how to pronounce nuclear...
one of the most overrated series ever,and mgsv is one of the most overrated games ever,just saying.