@@Matteo_Licata we have a alfa scene here, but very minute, a niche sector for enthusiasts, but not much is seen in actually tuning or racing those cars, they're known to be collector pieces around here. My grandfather had a 2300 when it was new, he said it was a pretty comfortable car to drive in the city, but would be a little bit unnerving for long distance drives (São Paulo-Foz do Iguaçú)
The Alfa Romeo 2000 sold poorly in Italy as well. It was more luxurious and less sporty than the 1900 it replaced, while the public expected the opposite
This guy is very knowledgeable, articulate and fascinating- this is the stuff that car nuts like me love - that beautiful accent could make reading a telephone directory compelling- bravo!
I always loved and saw all your videos and today it was the best surprise ever, you talking about our beloved 2300 and the incredible history of Alfa Romeo in Brazil. Thank you very much
It really is a great story. My biggest problem while writing it it's been how to condensate it to video format, as Brazilian enthusiasts have done a great job documenting these cars. It really shows the love local enthusiasts have for the 2300.
Congratulations on the video. I'm very fond of Alfa Romeo and was totally surprised to know this model in Brazil. I now have two that hopefully will be taking to Europe. Well done!
South African Alfa Romeos are very interesting indeed. I've discovered that during research for my Giulietta book but, as you said, the lack of info is an issue. Alfa itself says they got nothing, and the local factory documents weren't preserved... Leaving just online sources and maybe period mags... But I'll try to put together the most reliable info I got in a future video
@@Matteo_Licata Maybe you could connect with this guy: ruclips.net/user/JethroBronner. He's from SA, knows a lot about Alfa Romeos of old and especially about those from his home country. And beyond that, he's doing great stuff on youtube: technical stuff and restoration videos but in a superb fashion. pure meditation. Maybe he could help you.
Not only Jethro Bronner, Serge Damseaux was an Alfa dealer for many years. Raced and rallied them before going over to Toyota. As far as I understand, he has a small collection of old Alfas, and apparently one or two brand new "old" Alfas from his old shop.... He lives in Somerset West, South Africa.
Complimenti- un altro grand’ video. L’Alfa fabbricato in l’Italia, Brasile & Sud Africa. Forse un altro paese, l’Australia con il Giocattolo (Alfa Sprint modificato)!
In 1977 some 700 were imported to the netherlands. They were considered below par and stayed on stock for years . Then sold abroad but came back outside the dealer channel between 1981 and 1983... marked as alfa Romeo 2300 Rio...one or two are still around..
They rusted for 2 years on the quayside of the port of Rotterdam before send to the dealerships. Together with the Alfasud rust disaster both models have impacted up to today the image of Alfa Romeo.
Yes, importing the 2300 in Europe wasn't a great idea, as the car had never been intended for that market and rustproofing at the old FNM factory was non-existent. Things got better after the switch to Betim in 1978.
Really thank you for sharing this video as I didn't even know that there was a factory in Brazil let alone producing the big Alfa Romeo! I find it sad that this factory has stopped producing and closed down. Keep on posting as I really enjoy your videos 👍👍👍
Great video. Regarding the 1966 FNM Onca; I wonder why they copied the Ford Mustang body shape when they could have copied Alfa's more beautiful (in my opinion) GT Junior? You would think that the GT Junior body style would have been the natural choice for the Onca?
I must clarify that the Onca wasn’t designed by Alfa Romeo, which did not control FNM before ‘68. The Onca was the brainchild of local coachbuilder Rino Malzoni, but FNM did supply the chassis and completed the assembly in its own premises. Only 7 or 8 were made though. No idea why Malzoni copied the Mustang though.
Actually, as an person experienced with FNM, the Onça was based on a mustang chassis, with only the front being fibre-glass, the rest was american steel, that happened because Ford had 7% of FNM during the early 60s, and by request of Malzoni, they supplied mustang chassis for the Onça. this info was brought to you by a brazilian, cheers!
Thank you for watching! Yes, I know of some hardcore Alfa collectors in Europe who own 2300 saloons, but cars like the 2000Timb must be exceedingly hard to find even in Brazil, given the tiny production numbers
I saw a beautiful black 156 GTA today in Bangkok and congratulated the driver on his fine car when he happened to park close to where I had stopped a few minutes later.
I didn’t know anything about Alfa’s being built in Brazil until this video. It would be pretty cool to find a later model 2300 with the more powerful engine to import from there, as it would be unique, sporty and I am sure fun to drive.
I'm told that those 2300s are pretty underwhelming to drive: they look like Alfettas, but their underpinnings were rooted in the 1950s and damping was better suited for rougher roads than those we have in Europe. But, of course, it would be a very interesting oddity and stand out at Alfa shows!
Another great video! For long time, the 2300 stayed the most powerful (HP) car ever produced in the county. Had the pleasure to travel various times to Brazil, but unfortunately, never saw one of the rare Onças.
After that, Fiat kept the Alfa Romeo brand in Brazil by importing the european models, and it lasted until after the appearence of the 156. Some say that the 90's were peak-Fiat in Brazil, because we had almost all alfa Romeo models, as well as some very special Fiat models, like the Uno Turbo i.e., the Marea Turbo, the Tempra Turbo and the Sport Coupé. Also, a note: They were mostly prettier than thier european counterparts.
Alfa Romeo also somehow produced in Spain. From the end of the 50s and along the 60s a new Spanish manufacturer, Fadisa, also built the Autotutto of Alfa Romeo, a van with limited sales but very popular in the limited Spanish market at the time. And always the logo of Alfa Romeo. Fadisa was afterwards producing vans and small trucks under the brand Ebro till early - mid 80s. Nowadays is producing vans for Nissan, apparently not for long.
Did FNM / Alfa Romeo ever look at building the smaller Giulietta (Tipo 750) in Brazil to complement the larger locally build versions of the Alfa Romeo 2000? It would have been interesting seeing a Giulietta-based Brazilian-built equivalent of the FNM 2150 and Alfa Romeo 2300.
As far as I've seen, FNM never tried to purchase an assembly licence for the Giulietta. Upon buying FNM in '68, Alfa's president made bold claims about building the Giulia and even the Alfasud in Brazil, but those plans never materialized due to Alfa's own issues at home in Italy.
@@Matteo_Licata Too bad. Wonder how the Brazilians would have taken to the Giulia and Alfasud, adapting them to local tastes as well as whether locally built Twin-Cam and Alfasud motors could have been converted to ethanol. Had they materialized it would have potentially had a positive knock on effect on the Alfa Romeo 2300, given Giulia/Giulietta Twin-Cam, 2600 inline-6 and V6 were studied and even tested in some FNM 2000/2150 and Alfa 2300 models.
Fantastic piece of car history! So, does the substantial Fiat operation in Brazil originate from the acquisition of the Alfa Romeo assets in the 70s, or did Fiat have a presence there already??
Fiat didn't need to purchase Alfa's assets to build up its presence in Brazil. It did, but Alfa's original involvement with FNM did not alter significantly what has then been Fiat's successful Brazilian operation.
The first generation 2300 was a very interesting car, the five-speed gearbox and four-wheel disc brakes were unique in the local industry and a major technological advance, and the model still retained much of the Italian “sports luxury” design, but this was lost in the attempt to evolve, the dashboard, the steering wheel, the door handles, were "pasteurized" in an aesthetic confusion completely different from the Milanese art spirit. However, the four-cylinder engine in such a heavy car didn't compete with the American V8 engines from Ford and Dodge or the six-cylinder engine from Chevrolet (actually, Opel). Alfetta would probably have a more solid place in the market, but... Congratulations for the research and thanks for the video. Greetings from Brazil.
@@Matteo_Licata Il tuo lavoro in questo video è stato molto approfondito e completo, anche in Brasile c'è poco materiale disponibile sulla 2300. Ancora complimenti per l'idea e per lo sforzo di divulgare la storia dell'automobile, i legami storici che uniscono così fortemente Italia e Brasile e, naturalmente, un po' più della nostra grande passione per "Il Biscione".
Grazie mille per il tuo apprezzamento e per le tue belle parole! É proprio questo contatto con gli appassionati di tutto il mondo che mi spinge a continuare a fare i miei video 👍
Hi Matteo, this would be a interesting topic for a new book! Pity you didn’t go into more detail on the Coupe Onca, discovered that one a few months ago but seems to be very unique and hardly info available
Thank you! I chose not to go deeper on the Onca coupè exactly because of the scarce info available. I prefer not to mention something if I'm not sure about it all. Regarding books, I'm afraid I won't be publishing for a while... My Lancia Gamma book has stalled due to lack of cooperation from Fiat and Pininfarina. I could write without them, but it's not the kind of work I want to do. :(
Actually one onça was sent to Italy and not approved by Alfa Romeo HQ. Changes required was big enough to cancel the project. We know of only 05 Pre-production cars were produced from the 08 plastic bodywork ever made. Those models are a bit different from the onça prototype in steel presented in 1966. This prototype in disappeared....
Also in need of correction is that FNM didn't start making alfas only in 1960, most of the trucks were alfa or fiat designs, with the standard 11.6L I6 engine from Fiat, and that started use in the early 50s, so we technically started making alfas ~1953-54
in brazil, at that time, taxes were the highest for cars above 100cv, so this alfa was competing against a modified dodge dart with a 5.2l, a ford galaxy with 5.0l and a chevrolet opala of 4.1l. only opala sold well because it had a version with a 4 cilinder engine and was below 100cv. so it had sales volume.
Unfortunately the Onça never really went into production, probably exactly because of its similarities with the Mustang, so Alfa would avoid getting into trouble with Ford for having such a similar design. I don't even know if a functional model was ever produced, but it's really a shame for us Brazilians that it never took off. Thank you for your very informative videos, keep it up.
Also in Argentina the Alfa 1900 were built but wirh a continental 4 cylinder engine an also a "super version" with a 6-cyl continental. They where known as IKA Bergantín. Fiat has also a rich history there, more than alfa.
@@Matteo_Licata Sorry, I've forgotten yo answer. There are many videos about IKA. (Industrias Kaiser Argentina) It's a really interesting story with some unknown guys like Fangio, Pininfarina and Pagani inclusive. You also have fiat unique versions built in Argentina from designers like Vignale.
I'm sorry to be nitpicky, but you forgot to add some serious info on special alfas we made (i know most of that isn't all well documented, but if you want i can help), before the Onça, we had the Espingarda, a prototype that was based on the 2150, it was lost in a race on what's now the Nelson Piquet circuit, in Brasília, after the Onça we had the Fúria series, which was designed by Ádamo Bianco, he made the fúria prototype racer (mid engined 2300 beast) and the Fúria production car, a muscle car looking beauty from 1977, we also had a special made by Malzoni, using his Puma (DKW-based, 1967) and a 2150 engine
It's just sad how FNM and Alfa Romeo could have success here, if it wasn't for mismanagement and the lack of more conventional entry level cars, Chrysler had the same problems here, they made very expensive luxury V8 models until the end of the 70's, ended up being buyed by VW in the 80's, which took the truck production and end up the Chrysler main line in Brazil with very few models, they are as rare if not more than the Brazilian FNM/Alfa Romeo models, if they did made some entry level models with some varieties (hatch, coupe, waggons) they would stand still here as they was in the beginning.
Brazil seems to have had an unusual market of European imports, they also had an exclusive Volkswagen which I forgot the name of. The Alfa Romeo Arna was also an odd car made in conjunction with Nissan that might be worthy of a video?
The name of the exclusives VW in Brazil are Brasilia, a hatchback of relative success, and SP2, a beutiful design for a coupe without an engine up to the task.
No, it was not exclusive to Brazil at all. The Brasilia was sold in Europe too. It was a 100% Brasil developed VW but it was sold in multiple countries, in various continents. It sold very well in parts of Europe in the 70's
@@TheAllMightyGodofCod That was news to me, but as I live in Sweden and old cars tend not to last here too long due to rust. I can only find evidence of them in Portugal outside of the many Americas
@@Abraxium I know they were also sold in Africa, in Nigeria. They were popular in Portugal but also sold in Spain. Also the Philippines got them. I do believe they weren't ever sold so up north as Sweden.
Very interesting video. I already knew about the Brazilian Alfas, but I didn't know they were produced until 1986! Any info on how the build quality was on these "Alfas"? For all I know, cars coming from Brazil and destined to "the Latin American market" are naff and mediocre, compared to European or American cars. Cost cutting is the name of the game 😂. Also, was this actually the beginning of Fiat's Brasil activity? Which remains to this day.
Build quality of the 2300 actually improved when assembly was moved to the new Fiat factory in Betim, which operates to this day. That factory was opened in 1976 by Fiat independently of Alfa Romeo. But Fiat had already bought 43% of FNM from Alfa in 1973, and built trucks in the FNM site.
@@Matteo_Licata Interesting! Thanks for replying. It's great to hear more stories from other Alfa markets. I've heard Argentina was a big market for Alfa in the '90s and that Japan was also very interesting with different versions and equipment.
I've read about it and it was such a sad story I didn't feel like including it :( The 2300 was never intended for European consumption, as its underpinnings were crude by our standards in the 70s. Rustproofing at the old FNM factory was non-existent either, but quality improved markedly once the 2300 was assembled in the new Fiat factory from '78.
A dirla tutta la 2300 brasiliana era esteticamente più equilibrata dellAlfa6 italiana. Ma non potevano fare un'unica ammiraglia cosi risparmiavano pure qualche denaro viste le condizioni non proprio floride della cassa aziendale?
Non condivido le critiche L'Alfa 6 ha sempre ricevuto per il suo design... La 2300 così com'era non avrebbe potuto competere in Europa, con il suo chassis ancora derivato dallo schema della 1900... Ma condivido che, in teoria, avrebbe avuto senso fare una sola vettura grande per Europa e Brasile, si... Credo si sia peccato di eccessivo ottimismo negli ultimi anni dell'era Luraghi, anche qui con il senno di poi, naturalmente...
Matteo, don't know for you but I almost bite my eyes off just not to look at the ugly Onça again! What an ugly and unholy combination! It makes the ARNA look like a masterpiece next to it! I really wished I had never seen an FNM Onça, please tell me that is just an Alfa Romeo in an Halloween custom!
You can maybe get some consolation from the fact the Onca is exceedingly rare. It's believed only 7 or 8 were made, the brainchild of local coachbuilder Rino Malzoni. The cars were assembled at the FNM factory though, so it was a fully-sanctioned effort from FNM's part.
@@Matteo_Licata I am afraid the Onça might appear in my dreams today!!!! One of my neighbours has a nice new Giulia, I think I better sleep in the street next to it to counter the Onça's ugliness with the amazingly beautiful Giulia.
Very interesting history lesson, had no idea about this. The 2300 is actually quite nice. Ciao 🙋♂️
Thank you! Yes, I'm very happy to have done this video, as sharing this kind of automotive knowledge is what Roadster Life is all about :)
Amazing vídeo! I own a 1981 Alfa Romeo 2300 Ti4... Great car!!!
Really? Cool! Could you tell me more about it? How does it feel to drive and how is the Alfa scene there in Brazil?
@@Matteo_Licata we have a alfa scene here, but very minute, a niche sector for enthusiasts, but not much is seen in actually tuning or racing those cars, they're known to be collector pieces around here.
My grandfather had a 2300 when it was new, he said it was a pretty comfortable car to drive in the city, but would be a little bit unnerving for long distance drives (São Paulo-Foz do Iguaçú)
We had the 1980 model and it was
awesome and very fast.
Cool!!!
Never heard about these Brasilien Alfa Romeos before. Thanks a lot for this great video 🙂👍
And weren't you so much happier before you first seen that Onça?
My pleasure! Glad you liked it!
Very interesting piece of automotive history, Matteo. Didn't know about Alfa's Brazilian history too much until now!
That’s why I did this video. I like to tell these obscure stories
0:30 that FNM 2000 is such an elegant car - it looks a bit like the contemporary Mercedes. Surprising how few were made.
The Alfa Romeo 2000 sold poorly in Italy as well. It was more luxurious and less sporty than the 1900 it replaced, while the public expected the opposite
Great story - very entertaining and informative- many thanks 🙏👍😀
Glad you enjoyed it, these obscure stories are the ones I enjoy the most covering!
This guy is very knowledgeable, articulate and fascinating- this is the stuff that car nuts like me love - that beautiful accent could make reading a telephone directory compelling- bravo!
Wow, thank you! I've gotten a lot of flak for my Italian accent in the past, so your comment makes my day :)
Amazing story, "today I learned something new''. Perhaps that could be a meme for a Roadster Life T-Shirt :D
We Greeks ,love Italian cars!
I’ve noticed that :)
Glad you do!
At last, a vídeo about these cars. For me, that grew up in Brasil, I knew about tihs story, but watching it on this channel is something else.
Glad you've enjoyed it, even if you already knew the story! That's a great accomplishment for me :)
Thank you very much for this video! 🇧🇷👍🇮🇹
Glad you liked it! This is a story few outside of Brazil know about, and I'm glad I've been able to make it!
Great video. This is important history and well done to you. Thank you and please download more videos. Marc from Australia
Thank you! I'm glad of this video's success, as it's a very little known story I've wanted to cover for quite some time. Cheers from Torino :)
I always loved and saw all your videos and today it was the best surprise ever, you talking about our beloved 2300 and the incredible history of Alfa Romeo in Brazil. Thank you very much
It really is a great story. My biggest problem while writing it it's been how to condensate it to video format, as Brazilian enthusiasts have done a great job documenting these cars. It really shows the love local enthusiasts have for the 2300.
Congratulations on the video. I'm very fond of Alfa Romeo and was totally surprised to know this model in Brazil. I now have two that hopefully will be taking to Europe. Well done!
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it!
It would be interesting if you could talk about the Alfa Romeos from South Africa. There is not much information on line .
South African Alfa Romeos are very interesting indeed. I've discovered that during research for my Giulietta book but, as you said, the lack of info is an issue. Alfa itself says they got nothing, and the local factory documents weren't preserved... Leaving just online sources and maybe period mags... But I'll try to put together the most reliable info I got in a future video
@@Matteo_Licata Maybe you could connect with this guy: ruclips.net/user/JethroBronner. He's from SA, knows a lot about Alfa Romeos of old and especially about those from his home country. And beyond that, he's doing great stuff on youtube: technical stuff and restoration videos but in a superb fashion. pure meditation. Maybe he could help you.
Not only Jethro Bronner, Serge Damseaux was an Alfa dealer for many years. Raced and rallied them before going over to Toyota. As far as I understand, he has a small collection of old Alfas, and apparently one or two brand new "old" Alfas from his old shop.... He lives in Somerset West, South Africa.
Once again , a very informative production. Welldone.
Glad you enjoyed it! Loved bringing such an unknown story to you all
Complimenti- un altro grand’ video.
L’Alfa fabbricato in l’Italia, Brasile & Sud Africa. Forse un altro paese, l’Australia con il Giocattolo (Alfa Sprint modificato)!
La Giocattolo non era una iniziativa Alfa Romeo, quindi non conta :)
In 1977 some 700 were imported to the netherlands. They were considered below par and stayed on stock for years . Then sold abroad but came back outside the dealer channel between 1981 and 1983... marked as alfa Romeo 2300 Rio...one or two are still around..
They rusted for 2 years on the quayside of the port of Rotterdam before send to the dealerships. Together with the Alfasud rust disaster both models have impacted up to today the image of Alfa Romeo.
Yes, importing the 2300 in Europe wasn't a great idea, as the car had never been intended for that market and rustproofing at the old FNM factory was non-existent. Things got better after the switch to Betim in 1978.
Very interesting and well presented thank you. Excellent editing 👍
Thank you very much! Glad you’ve enjoyed it!
Really thank you for sharing this video as I didn't even know that there was a factory in Brazil let alone producing the big Alfa Romeo! I find it sad that this factory has stopped producing and closed down. Keep on posting as I really enjoy your videos 👍👍👍
Glad you've enjoyed it :)
Thank you, it's been a pleasure to shed light on such an obscure subject... These are my favorite kind of videos
Its a beautiful car..very rare..
I don't know how many cars survive today in Brazil... But I guess they're quite rare now indeed. Thank you for watching!
Great video! No you need to do another talking about the brazilian Alfa Romeo trucks!
I’m not an expert on trucks, Alfa or not :)
So I don’t think I’ll ever cover heavy vehicles... But who knows?
Great video. Regarding the 1966 FNM Onca; I wonder why they copied the Ford Mustang body shape when they could have copied Alfa's more beautiful (in my opinion) GT Junior? You would think that the GT Junior body style would have been the natural choice for the Onca?
I must clarify that the Onca wasn’t designed by Alfa Romeo, which did not control FNM before ‘68. The Onca was the brainchild of local coachbuilder Rino Malzoni, but FNM did supply the chassis and completed the assembly in its own premises. Only 7 or 8 were made though. No idea why Malzoni copied the Mustang though.
@@Matteo_Licata Thank you very much for the clarification, very interesting.
Actually, as an person experienced with FNM, the Onça was based on a mustang chassis, with only the front being fibre-glass, the rest was american steel, that happened because Ford had 7% of FNM during the early 60s, and by request of Malzoni, they supplied mustang chassis for the Onça.
this info was brought to you by a brazilian, cheers!
@@somethinglongandcomplicate8298 I didn't know about that
Another very informative and interesting video😷👍
Glad you think so! This is the kind of obscure stories I love most to share
Signore, video sei una pezza di mestre, grazzie mille per mostrare nostra industria nacionale di alfa.
Cuom afetto, uno brasiliano
Now do a clip on Alfa Romeo production in South Africa
You're not the first one asking for this... It'll happen :)
@@Matteo_Licata Thanks Boet
Thank you very much. Very interesting history. I quite like the cars. Can be interesting additions for serious collectors.
Thank you for watching! Yes, I know of some hardcore Alfa collectors in Europe who own 2300 saloons, but cars like the 2000Timb must be exceedingly hard to find even in Brazil, given the tiny production numbers
I saw a beautiful black 156 GTA today in Bangkok and congratulated the driver on his fine car when he happened to park close to where I had stopped a few minutes later.
Cool! Black suits the GTA
I didn’t know anything about Alfa’s being built in Brazil until this video. It would be pretty cool to find a later model 2300 with the more powerful engine to import from there, as it would be unique, sporty and I am sure fun to drive.
I'm told that those 2300s are pretty underwhelming to drive: they look like Alfettas, but their underpinnings were rooted in the 1950s and damping was better suited for rougher roads than those we have in Europe. But, of course, it would be a very interesting oddity and stand out at Alfa shows!
Another great video! For long time, the 2300 stayed the most powerful (HP) car ever produced in the county. Had the pleasure to travel various times to Brazil, but unfortunately, never saw one of the rare Onças.
Brazilian sources say only 7 or 8 Oncas were made... So it must be very difficult to spot one indeed!
After that, Fiat kept the Alfa Romeo brand in Brazil by importing the european models, and it lasted until after the appearence of the 156. Some say that the 90's were peak-Fiat in Brazil, because we had almost all alfa Romeo models, as well as some very special Fiat models, like the Uno Turbo i.e., the Marea Turbo, the Tempra Turbo and the Sport Coupé. Also, a note: They were mostly prettier than thier european counterparts.
Yes there have been some pretty cool Brazil-Only Fiats over time... Unfortunately Fiat never got around importing the cool ones here!
Alfa Romeo also somehow produced in Spain. From the end of the 50s and along the 60s a new Spanish manufacturer, Fadisa, also built the Autotutto of Alfa Romeo, a van with limited sales but very popular in the limited Spanish market at the time.
And always the logo of Alfa Romeo.
Fadisa was afterwards producing vans and small trucks under the brand Ebro till early - mid 80s.
Nowadays is producing vans for Nissan, apparently not for long.
I didn’t know that, thank you!
Very interesting indeed
Glad you think so! Thank you!
Magnífico
Thank you!!!
Vielen Dank für die immer sehr interessanten Dokumentationen der italienischen Automobilgeschichte. :)
Thank you very much for watching and for your appreciation :)
Did FNM / Alfa Romeo ever look at building the smaller Giulietta (Tipo 750) in Brazil to complement the larger locally build versions of the Alfa Romeo 2000?
It would have been interesting seeing a Giulietta-based Brazilian-built equivalent of the FNM 2150 and Alfa Romeo 2300.
As far as I've seen, FNM never tried to purchase an assembly licence for the Giulietta. Upon buying FNM in '68, Alfa's president made bold claims about building the Giulia and even the Alfasud in Brazil, but those plans never materialized due to Alfa's own issues at home in Italy.
@@Matteo_Licata Too bad. Wonder how the Brazilians would have taken to the Giulia and Alfasud, adapting them to local tastes as well as whether locally built Twin-Cam and Alfasud motors could have been converted to ethanol.
Had they materialized it would have potentially had a positive knock on effect on the Alfa Romeo 2300, given Giulia/Giulietta Twin-Cam, 2600 inline-6 and V6 were studied and even tested in some FNM 2000/2150 and Alfa 2300 models.
Fantastic piece of car history! So, does the substantial Fiat operation in Brazil originate from the acquisition of the Alfa Romeo assets in the 70s, or did Fiat have a presence there already??
Fiat didn't need to purchase Alfa's assets to build up its presence in Brazil. It did, but Alfa's original involvement with FNM did not alter significantly what has then been Fiat's successful Brazilian operation.
@@Matteo_Licata Makes sense! Thanks!
The first generation 2300 was a very interesting car, the five-speed gearbox and four-wheel disc brakes were unique in the local industry and a major technological advance, and the model still retained much of the Italian “sports luxury” design, but this was lost in the attempt to evolve, the dashboard, the steering wheel, the door handles, were "pasteurized" in an aesthetic confusion completely different from the Milanese art spirit. However, the four-cylinder engine in such a heavy car didn't compete with the American V8 engines from Ford and Dodge or the six-cylinder engine from Chevrolet (actually, Opel). Alfetta would probably have a more solid place in the market, but...
Congratulations for the research and thanks for the video.
Greetings from Brazil.
Thank you, I’m glad I managed to give the Brazilian Alfas their due, as here in Italy there’s zero literature on them. Cheers from Italy 👍
@@Matteo_Licata Il tuo lavoro in questo video è stato molto approfondito e completo, anche in Brasile c'è poco materiale disponibile sulla 2300. Ancora complimenti per l'idea e per lo sforzo di divulgare la storia dell'automobile, i legami storici che uniscono così fortemente Italia e Brasile e, naturalmente, un po' più della nostra grande passione per "Il Biscione".
Grazie mille per il tuo apprezzamento e per le tue belle parole! É proprio questo contatto con gli appassionati di tutto il mondo che mi spinge a continuare a fare i miei video 👍
Hi Matteo, this would be a interesting topic for a new book! Pity you didn’t go into more detail on the Coupe Onca, discovered that one a few months ago but seems to be very unique and hardly info available
Thank you! I chose not to go deeper on the Onca coupè exactly because of the scarce info available. I prefer not to mention something if I'm not sure about it all. Regarding books, I'm afraid I won't be publishing for a while... My Lancia Gamma book has stalled due to lack of cooperation from Fiat and Pininfarina. I could write without them, but it's not the kind of work I want to do. :(
@@Matteo_Licata That’s a shame on the new book. Love the Gamma Coupé so much. Underrated car
Actually one onça was sent to Italy and not approved by Alfa Romeo HQ. Changes required was big enough to cancel the project. We know of only 05 Pre-production cars were produced from the 08 plastic bodywork ever made. Those models are a bit different from the onça prototype in steel presented in 1966. This prototype in disappeared....
@@renato_rcunha That's great info, thank you!
Interesting!
Glad you think so!
Also in need of correction is that FNM didn't start making alfas only in 1960, most of the trucks were alfa or fiat designs, with the standard 11.6L I6 engine from Fiat, and that started use in the early 50s, so we technically started making alfas ~1953-54
in brazil, at that time, taxes were the highest for cars above 100cv, so this alfa was competing against a modified dodge dart with a 5.2l, a ford galaxy with 5.0l and a chevrolet opala of 4.1l.
only opala sold well because it had a version with a 4 cilinder engine and was below 100cv. so it had sales volume.
Didn’t know that, thank you!
Unfortunately the Onça never really went into production, probably exactly because of its similarities with the Mustang, so Alfa would avoid getting into trouble with Ford for having such a similar design. I don't even know if a functional model was ever produced, but it's really a shame for us Brazilians that it never took off.
Thank you for your very informative videos, keep it up.
Yeah, I’ve read that Alfa wasn’t happy at all with the copycat design. I’m told only a handful of cars were indeed made
Also in Argentina the Alfa 1900 were built but wirh a continental 4 cylinder engine an also a "super version" with a 6-cyl continental. They where known as IKA Bergantín. Fiat has also a rich history there, more than alfa.
ruclips.net/video/EYlbpNmRuyA/видео.html
I had no idea such a weird "hybrid" existed. An Alfa 1900 without an Alfa engine... Where I can find out more?
@@Matteo_Licata Sorry, I've forgotten yo answer. There are many videos about IKA. (Industrias Kaiser Argentina) It's a really interesting story with some unknown guys like Fangio, Pininfarina and Pagani inclusive. You also have fiat unique versions built in Argentina from designers like Vignale.
I'm sorry to be nitpicky, but you forgot to add some serious info on special alfas we made (i know most of that isn't all well documented, but if you want i can help), before the Onça, we had the Espingarda, a prototype that was based on the 2150, it was lost in a race on what's now the Nelson Piquet circuit, in Brasília, after the Onça we had the Fúria series, which was designed by Ádamo Bianco, he made the fúria prototype racer (mid engined 2300 beast) and the Fúria production car, a muscle car looking beauty from 1977, we also had a special made by Malzoni, using his Puma (DKW-based, 1967) and a 2150 engine
It's just sad how FNM and Alfa Romeo could have success here, if it wasn't for mismanagement and the lack of more conventional entry level cars, Chrysler had the same problems here, they made very expensive luxury V8 models until the end of the 70's, ended up being buyed by VW in the 80's, which took the truck production and end up the Chrysler main line in Brazil with very few models, they are as rare if not more than the Brazilian FNM/Alfa Romeo models, if they did made some entry level models with some varieties (hatch, coupe, waggons) they would stand still here as they was in the beginning.
Brazil seems to have had an unusual market of European imports, they also had an exclusive Volkswagen which I forgot the name of. The Alfa Romeo Arna was also an odd car made in conjunction with Nissan that might be worthy of a video?
The name of the exclusives VW in Brazil are Brasilia, a hatchback of relative success, and SP2, a beutiful design for a coupe without an engine up to the task.
No, it was not exclusive to Brazil at all. The Brasilia was sold in Europe too. It was a 100% Brasil developed VW but it was sold in multiple countries, in various continents.
It sold very well in parts of Europe in the 70's
@@TheAllMightyGodofCod That was news to me, but as I live in Sweden and old cars tend not to last here too long due to rust. I can only find evidence of them in Portugal outside of the many Americas
Well, I've dedicated a whole book about the Arna venture, check it out: amzn.to/3mEkVre
@@Abraxium I know they were also sold in Africa, in Nigeria. They were popular in Portugal but also sold in Spain. Also the Philippines got them.
I do believe they weren't ever sold so up north as Sweden.
For my own part I am still waiting for a dutch subsiduary of the Moskva!
Bomba 💪
Wow İ never knew....
That's what this channel is all about :)
Spreading automotive culture. I'm glad this video is being appreciated
Very interesting video. I already knew about the Brazilian Alfas, but I didn't know they were produced until 1986!
Any info on how the build quality was on these "Alfas"? For all I know, cars coming from Brazil and destined to "the Latin American market" are naff and mediocre, compared to European or American cars. Cost cutting is the name of the game 😂.
Also, was this actually the beginning of Fiat's Brasil activity? Which remains to this day.
Build quality of the 2300 actually improved when assembly was moved to the new Fiat factory in Betim, which operates to this day. That factory was opened in 1976 by Fiat independently of Alfa Romeo. But Fiat had already bought 43% of FNM from Alfa in 1973, and built trucks in the FNM site.
@@Matteo_Licata Interesting! Thanks for replying.
It's great to hear more stories from other Alfa markets. I've heard Argentina was a big market for Alfa in the '90s and that Japan was also very interesting with different versions and equipment.
Nice video. You didn't mention the ill-fated attempt to sell some of the 2300's in Germany though. A sad but notable marketing failure by Alfa Romeo.
I've read about it and it was such a sad story I didn't feel like including it :(
The 2300 was never intended for European consumption, as its underpinnings were crude by our standards in the 70s. Rustproofing at the old FNM factory was non-existent either, but quality improved markedly once the 2300 was assembled in the new Fiat factory from '78.
@@Matteo_Licata I don't blame you for not including it in that basis! You do a good job with these videos, thank you for your efforts.
The Alfa 2300 is about the same size as the Alfa 6.
Yes indeed. But no relation between the two cars
A dirla tutta la 2300 brasiliana era esteticamente più equilibrata dellAlfa6 italiana. Ma non potevano fare un'unica ammiraglia cosi risparmiavano pure qualche denaro viste le condizioni non proprio floride della cassa aziendale?
Non condivido le critiche L'Alfa 6 ha sempre ricevuto per il suo design... La 2300 così com'era non avrebbe potuto competere in Europa, con il suo chassis ancora derivato dallo schema della 1900... Ma condivido che, in teoria, avrebbe avuto senso fare una sola vettura grande per Europa e Brasile, si... Credo si sia peccato di eccessivo ottimismo negli ultimi anni dell'era Luraghi, anche qui con il senno di poi, naturalmente...
Matteo, don't know for you but I almost bite my eyes off just not to look at the ugly Onça again! What an ugly and unholy combination! It makes the ARNA look like a masterpiece next to it!
I really wished I had never seen an FNM Onça, please tell me that is just an Alfa Romeo in an Halloween custom!
You can maybe get some consolation from the fact the Onca is exceedingly rare. It's believed only 7 or 8 were made, the brainchild of local coachbuilder Rino Malzoni. The cars were assembled at the FNM factory though, so it was a fully-sanctioned effort from FNM's part.
@@Matteo_Licata I am afraid the Onça might appear in my dreams today!!!! One of my neighbours has a nice new Giulia, I think I better sleep in the street next to it to counter the Onça's ugliness with the amazingly beautiful Giulia.