Yeah, because those people are irrational and even when they are faced with an option that would just provide benefits, that is, being vaccinated, they still choose not to, in a mere act of irrationality. It's dumb and irresponsible.
@@corvodraken3049 I buy lobsters and make them clean my room for me. And if any of them try to leave before it's done, the other lobsters drag them back inside.
I am reading the book and while I do not have the critical apparatuses or wish to unpack/analyse it, this is the book that has reached me to the core of my self. I feel seen and this lecture was a joy to experience!
I’m currently reading this book and after hearing Jordan break it down I’m like “damn I gotta read this again” lol. I wish Jordan did a commentary on these books so I could have his wisdom at hand while reading.
The main similarity between a wise person and a fool, is that they both seek perfection. The difference comes when the wise person realizes that the universe is so vast and complex, that the infinite variables of it and the limits of our senses makes perfection impossible to achieve. So the wise man becomes humble when he realizes that a big order of things governs the universe and that he is not a part of the world, but an entity that is composed of the inheritance of all the individuals who came after him...and for that reason, chooses to perpetuate it. The fool will just try to blame something or someone for his lack of understanding of the things. Because to the fool the most important thing in this world is himself, so he will try to validate himself before the world for his approval (the world being the public opinion, the masses). And the fool will hate the wise, because the wise chooses not to be part of the world and chooses based in faith and actions. The fool thinks that just believing is enough, and avoids anything that could potentially prove him wrong. The wise will put his faith to the test, and if his belief is wrong he will retract and try to correct his error. If a scientist can not prove his hypothesis, he modifies it or tries to formulate a new one which he will also test, repeating this until he finds the truth. God blessed.
While growing up... I found and often used the phrase... "You can't value the good times if you don't have bad times to compare it to." My parents standard replay to our childish complaints about thing in life was "No one promised life is fair." It was not meant in a mean or sarcastic manner... it was said in a very matter of fact way...
He is so right about the quality of this book. To this day, it is the best book I have ever read. Because, this book is just a mirror for your mind. And maybe I like Peterson, because he is in a way Dostoyevsky of modern times.
Absolutely brilliant. I recently was in touch with a coworker from a few years back & remembering my behaviour and feelings then in relation to them, I'm ashamed to admit that perhaps I'm one of the ones who hasn't changed-- even after knowing where I went wrong. E.g. I still feel quickly provoked and defensive with this person. *How* do we change in these instances I wonder?!!
Men unlike the beasts find their meaning in the hunt, it is either in cruelty or coincidence men so quickly loose themselves in the hunt and it's unquenching appetites.
After watching this, I'm reminded of Lori Loughlin and the college admissions scandals going on right now. Being rich and famous, she has it all, and yet she is engaged in cheating for her daughters.
To think that this was written nearly 100 years ago and not only did it come to fruition with the soviets, but also The Western culture. We have never been more rich and educated and prosperous in the entirety of the world and yet people still complain that they are being oppressed and life has never been harder. That they fight for rights that has been given more than 100 years before and the idea that even if we live in a perfect world (left or right) people will more than likely always push back and want more. I find this so incredible and interesting. God I wish I could ask him questions and talk one on one with this man. I have so much I want to know.
The heart of this video for me was 4:19. If you give everyone what they want and need, there's no reason whatsoever to assume that it will make them rational. The terrible truth. But then again, it may not be so terrible....
The issue with this line of thinking, is that it only takes extreme measures into account, but never a reasonable happy medium. The point in modern society isn't to give everyone everything, but to give equal opportunities to everyone, at every point in their lives. Because of the vast differences in upbringing, many people do not mature into true adulthood until they're 30-40, and even then, do not have the mental or physical strength to push themselves for years longer just to save the money that they'd need for college, in order to attain a job that would make them happy in life. The current so-called system of equality that we have, is built upon the mindset that we are all exactly the same person, with exactly the same way of thinking, the exact same mental and physical capabilities, and mitigations. And if that were the case, then equality of opportunity within the current system would entirely be a thing, but it's not. And if what he says is true, then why is it that the filthy rich aren't the ones robbing stores, and killing people in the streets? Those activities are predominantly taken on by those in poverty. People don't want fear, confrontation, or chaos; that's why so many of us live in this system under a state of cognitive dissonance. We fear the potentially adverse affects of changing the system, or of questioning it, or of making any moves that could set us into a less comfortable way of life than the lives we're currently living. Of course that doesn't mean that the current system is ideal, only that (for many of us), it's comfortable. But, comfort is the enemy of progress.
Tecnically no matter how secure we may become after UBI, we still cant stop meteors, meateor storms, solar flares, earthquakes, lightning, snow, or whatever else fills the blank. Can't a man just be able to have a home as one less worry on the checklist of all things possibly coming!
This excerpt that Jordan Peterson was analyzing corresponds to the Part 1 of the book "Notes from the Underground". It is just 60 pages long, and I highly recommend you guys go reading, it's very interesting and provocative! 😉👍
I am sad as I very much resemble this man from Notes from Underground. I realize this..,I am now surely gonna read it all and look an another perception and change
Monitary means provides the ability to be free from unfavorable chains. It gives an intelagent person the power to persue complex & expensive goels otherwise lost due to monitary needs. Freedom to move from class shackles. . The ignorant & unintrested become sedentary.
One of the reasons I love the Internet is that there are students, bored out of their mind, sitting in Professor Peterson's class, but there is also a captive audience of thousands of people around the world, who enjoy everything he says and stay up late in order to listen to his words.
That's a bit presumptive. You only see their face, not their feeling. I was constantly being told by my teachers that I looked bored and disinterested, that I wasn't even listening. They'd pick on me to answer questions thinking I didn't know what they were saying and I'd answer immediately. It always made me chuckle when they'd say "oh" and continue what they were doing.
@@highestsettings Just like it'd be presumptive to assume they all look bored and disinterested but are actually captivated by his speech and intently listening. Regardless you are right Hoggar the internet for all it's flaws has some pretty amazing things like globally sharing videos such as these.
I doubt those students would come to the class if the material bored them. If they really were disinterested, they could just as easily be somewhere else and watch the recorded video later. They're not required to be in the classroom, so they come there because they want to hear and see JP.
when school taught me everything i need to know except my soul... which is everything I need to grow, everything that keeps me whole everything that ever meant anything to me so I leave with golden hopes to rip the leash that holds my focus but the fact remains the same, I'm still bound by chains, it doesn't matter if your chain is 10 feet or 100 feet the fact remains the same, you still bound by chains
From the Matrix: "Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world where none suffered, where everyone would be happy? It was a disaster. No one would accept the program, entire crops were lost. Some believed that we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world, but I believe that as a species that human beings define their reality through misery and suffering. So the perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from." - Agent Smith
I've listened to a couple hundred hours of his lectures....never bored, always learning. It's as if he is constantly smacking my face and screaming "Wake up. Think about this!" What a mind.
Hell, I've had massive enlightenment experiences 10 years ago, studied all the great psychological and esoteric traditions, all the authors he mentions (Jung, Campbell, Dostoyievsky, Mircea Eliade and many, many more besides), spent years applying the Work to myself and now have created myself a clinical coach practice - And even then, I still can't stop listening to the man. I know how right he is, and how much work it represents to integrate that wisdom at an experiential level like he does. His poise just overflows with inner power. Remember when he insisted to Dyson? "Let's get precise - *precise*!" Countless kudos!
I study Literature at college in my country, Italy. You may think it's odd for a traditionally conservative (but very chaotic, I know) country like mine, but leftist, SJW mentality is slowly entering college students' mindset even here. I absolutely hate the fact that they seem to think of me as some kind of fascist even though I'd call myself a classic liberal, but the thing I despise the most about them is their blind, cowarldy utopianism. I say cowardly because every time I try to get them to face (by reading, for instance, some good book, like Notes from the Underground, which I love) the fact that their ideology can be refuted, and brilliantly, too, they'll just shrug and not read the thing. Watching these lessons always makes me feel a lot better.
Same for germany. I was called a sexistic, harassing Nazi several times without the topic being about race etc. at all. All of that just because i spoke in the name of science and facts at an open discussion. My statement ultimately was "my opinion may not always be the right opinion, so i need to rely on facts to find the truth". (I'm an engineer, i want to know things for sure, not believe in my opinion)
I wouldn't say there is really anything traditionally conservative about Italy. That is more, the traditional leftist strategy of equating anything to the right of Marxism to be fascism. Being Italian, you probably got a shit-ton of brainwashing about Mussolini in your primary schooling. Fascism, in Mussolini's mind was the optimal route to Socialism. You see, no matter what anyone told you in school, Mussolini was a true believer in socialist ideals. He rejected violent class revolution outright though, which is why he split with Italian Socialist Party, who were all about that Bolshevik style slaughter. In the end though, both Mussolini and Marx's routes to socialist utopia were disastrous. These days, fascist is just another term for skinheads and its lost all of its original meaning. One more victory for leftists and their destruction of language.
Yup, you got that right. I meant conservative as in 'more traditional religious ideas' (especially in the south) and 'more traditional ideas about the family'. Italian kids are thoroughly told, and rightfully so, about Mussolini and the horrors of fascism (and nazis), but the socialist origin of Mussolini's ideas is often...looked over. So we don't really get how dangerous utopianism, of all political colors, is; just how dangerous extreme right-wingers are. Also, if there is a people with short term memory, it's Italians. We're not as tormented by guilt as Germans, which is kinda good on one side because we don't have those culturally suicidal ideas, but it's also bad and really sad, because most Italians don't give a shit about history or about anything else. I know I sound like I'm just hating on my generation and my country and all that shit, but I just can't stand seeing all the lack of values, lack of thinking, lack of interest and curiosity, all this general zero fucks given attitude... Generally speaking,young Italians are just every bit children of nihilism like their other western peers, because nihilism, especially this nihilism for dummies they're selling on campuses, is such an easy and lazy idea to embrace. I'm not trying to sound better than anyone, I'm just saddened by the situation, it boggles my mind...as I said, I study Literature and I actually believe in the slice of truth humanities can pursue. Seeing it reduced, on a daily basis, to dynamics of power and class destroys the spirit.
2T5MUU I'm a young American guy and I thought it was just me but it seems most young people (is it just this generation or was it past ones as well?) don't want to grow up. We want the utopia where we don't have to work or be responsible, we want to drink beer all day and travel the world and fuck each other like bunnies in heat, we want it all and we want it now. I think we realize utopia is unrealistic so we find nihilism instead and that's similar in the sense that we can say oh well, we're all gonna die so who cares if I chain smoke or OD on heron or do nothing of value with my life. Peterson has opened my eyes though, because he talks about bearing our burdens and making the sacrifice and accepting life and growing up, and no one has ever articulated these lessons in such a way to me. Maybe it's because I'm done drifting around aimlessly (and I guess that's nihilism) so to find happiness and enlightenment and to reap the seeds I sow, I have to move on and grow up and bear my burden because life is suffering and I never wanted to accept that but now that actually gets me excited if that makes sense. And I've been seeing more and more young people coming to terms with this through Peterson's lectures.
I don't know about the IQ thing (and don't really care much either, I know a lot of people who score high in IQ tests and then act like bumbling idiots or robots in academic life), but we certainly don't have a great education system: it's old, rotting, and doesn't help smart people who want to actually learn to succeed. I've met a few brilliant fellow italian students, and they all went to another country for the master's degree. Thing is, we don't even have enough money to support education and research, most school buildings suck and so on, because we're spending so much money trying to manage all the immigrants we take in from Africa and Middle East, and half of the money gets eaten up by the mafia anyways. But yes, it's more a shitshow in the south than in central (where I live) or northern Italy.
You hit on Dostoevsky's greatest point...the awful and wonderful aspect of human experience that is free will...whether it's the Grand Inquisitor in Karamazov, or the passages you cite, we will do absolutely anything, including the self-destructive, to prove we have agency...free will. And this is why he is maybe as important as St. Paul in explaining Christianity to us.
jamelleholieway4 We don't have free will because we automatically attempt to prove that we have free will if we feel like we are being deprived of it. If we had free will, we could decide to be satisfied in an unstimulating environment. I hope that you understand what I mean and that my logic is correct. I truly am a genius.
@@nihilismus9840 You're saying that a person struggling to leave an environment that is unsatisfying to them is them trying to prove to themselves or others that they have free will? Surely if one took a more physicalist perspective they'd come to a conclusion similar to that we have free will, yet it is somewhat directed by the constraints of our biology. That's how I feel, regardless; my real question for you is why claim all people do not have free will when it is clear that humans are not simply biological robots, and that there is clearly some degree of freeness in every decision that anyone makes? I only now just noticed your username and I am really opposed to nihilism myself, as we all cannot change the fact that we are "in the game", but we definitely can change how we play, or how we feel, or how we react, or even how our physical avatars look. There are things we can do to free ourselves, I mean that just choosing a path down which you will definitely struggle and suffer is free-will in itself, we do not have the option to not play, as even suicide is a free-will option. We have free-will within the game. I'm just not sure that a person attempting to improve their current situation is an outcry (to themselves? or anyone) to prove they have agency in this world, as in my case, I gain money for selfish reasons, to purchase things that will bring me hedonistic joy, which I value based on my own standards of what is "cool" per say.
The people who criticize Peterson and his success - I wonder how many of them have done this level of analysis on ANYTHING - in their personal, professional, or academic lives.
Notes is more edgy than that. It isn't about why you would want some sweat and some sour in life. It is about how having both, neither, or everything you would set out to wreck your world kind of thing. It is as in music there is discord that is then resolved... wait, there is some guy breaking a guitar apart over there.
David Fitzgerald no. Not on this planet. What's good for some will NOT be good for others. Though on an individual basis there can be a satisfactory contentment achieved through personal evolution. Life has three basic tenets, health, wealth and relationships. How we choose to relate within this reality will manifest our perceived outcome. One man, one lived experience. What will I express, project, create, or destroy as I fumble about in this what we deem LIFE. BTW may yours be filled with all the joy you can handle. ;-)
It reminds me of what the good dragon says in skyrim. Something to the effect of, it's better to be evil and to become good rather than to have always been good and never known any different.
I see your point but it is technically impossible. Let’s say you could be given everything. Every atom, every modicum of whatever. There is still you. So it’s incomplete. Like a wave in the ocean. It may reach out for a moment but soon it will return to the collective. It is not capable of emancipation like a human is. We simply perceive it as something separate from the main water body.
I wish I was in Peterson's class. I sure as hell wouldn't be on my phone like that dude in the front row. That's why I love all these videos and why I never wanted to go to college, cause when I seek out this knowledge I have an appreciation and passion for it but if I'm forced to be in a class and sit through a lecture (like that guy) I may or may not be interested in, I'd be on my phone or falling asleep or in a different place in my head.
dman I totally disagree with your choice of the word forced; because anyone who's in University, is there by choice. At times, yes it does feel that we're forced. But that's more often than not our own conscious choice to show up to class and learn. Nobody's forcing you to attend class.
Sam Doohan and what if some of those students are perfectly happy with being reduced to piano keys and prosperity is exactly what they want? Even in Dostojewsky's Russia most people were not as described by him in this quote. We must remember that bolshevic revolution has been led by small group of insane individuals. Most people are not insane, because they are delusional about them being free. They are unaware of being piano keys and its good for them. Some people, that are intelligent and educated enough, know the truth about their freedom, but repress it getting busy with pursuing goals like careers. They are much like Christians who don't really believe but keep their religious practices just for the peace of mind. They repress what they know is true about human condition. And its good. What is not good and bring destruction, are unsuccessful individuals who are obsessed with the meaning of life to justify their relative socioeconomic failure. So when Dr Peterson talks about human condition it hardly describe physicists and mathematicians on his university, but the other end of the spectrum very much so. Don't get me even ask the question how does it corellate to IQ.
liambeatz I used that word for two reasons. 1) when they put you through the system it feels a lot like college is shoved down your throat and to break out of that rat race takes a lot of courage and independence because regardless of what every person concerned with the outcome of your life might say there is more than one path to success. A lot of people in college are probably just going through the motions because that's what they were supposed to do and they don't even know what they want or how to get it. Peterson himself has even said college is never never land, an excuse to not grow up and join the real world, to continue lacking any real responsibility or accountability and the trade off is indentured servitude. College is pressured on people because it's a signal but the job market is so watered down with recent liberal arts degree holders that I don't think it's as powerful of a signal as before. 2) someone already explained in a comment above. If they're majoring in some degree unrelated to philosophy or psychology but this class is a requirement or they just need the credits then yes they're forced to go to graduate and they're probably not interested in Dostoevsky or Jung or anything Peterson is saying cause they just need to pass and keep their GPA up. You could probably zone out most of the class and fuck around on your phone and then get everything you need for homework in a textbook. What Peterson is talking about is enlightening to say the least but from my perspective if I was in a class I would take it for granted too just cause I have such a negative idea of school and classrooms and I tend to shut down and literally nod off in those situations because of that. So taking this (and any) information in on my own time through RUclips and online classes really suits me better I guess.
Any one who has lived through high school knows this is true for the huge majority of the population. We do stupid acts, knowing they are stupid, just to prove we are independent of those wise people who try to guide us.
I read C.S. Lewis as an older child, and his depictions of heaven were far more compelling than the simplistic 'freedom from all sufferring and necessities' ideas I got from churchgoers. I found them insipid and oversimple when set beside the high drama of moral duty and war in heaven and showing compassion in the midst of a ruthless culture. Such depictions are in _Perelandra_ , _The Great Divorce_ , and _The Last Battle_ .
If good and perfection and love are unsatisfying, then heaven isn't where you will choose to go. God sends no one anywhere. When we die we gravitate towards what resonates with our hearts. If chaos and darkness and death resonates, we will choose the place where others of like spirit are creating that very reality. If light and love and peace and beauty delight us, we still choose the place which reflects that. In no way are we placed where we don't want to be. Perhaps we don't like the consequences of what we have chosen, but that's a different topic all together. God is all about free will. He wants us to choose Him and His Kingdom freely because love must be free of it is truly love. We have all rights to freely choose the dark realm too. God doesn't want robots. That's the other guy. The other guy is obsessed with control.
Foreal its past the point where I can blame it on my phone or Alexa listening to me these coincidences almost seem to transcend the capabilities of anything 3-dimensional having any part in it
The irony is that I read the Underground Man and was horrified at the aspects of myself that related to him. I saw him as a man I didn't want to become, yet today happened.
@@tescheurich What did Peterson get wrong? His analysis sounds correct and objectively shared with many other laureates across a varied landscape of disciplines. Care to enlighten us?
"Why, look you now, how unworthy a thing you make of me! You would play upon me. You would seem to know my stops. You would pluck out the heart of my mystery. You would sound me from my lowest note to the top of my compass. And there is much music, excellent voice, in this little organ, yet cannot you make it speak? 'Sblood, do you think I am easier to be played on than a pipe? Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, yet you cannot play upon me." - Hamlet Act 3, Scene 2
Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding... And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy ~ Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet
I think Mr. Spock quoted this concept best. "After a time you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting.It is not logical, but it is often true."
He will be relevant at all times, as it affects a lot of topics that require attention and understanding always and almost for any generation. This great writer was a profound psychologist. In his works shows such a depth of penetration into the human soul, which did not dream of modern psychotherapists. Read Dostoevsky, think and develop!
I love the thumbnails soooo much. Who would've ever imagined that college-level lectures would have meme-like thumbnails with thug-life glasses and everything? Who would've ever guessed that a professor and his EDUCATIONAL lectures would go viral?
In a way I feel this during summer breaks from college. After one month I’m bored out of my mind because I have everything I need and no challenge to tackle. I end up having to put myself into self made challenges but man its just not the same. And when I’m at college I love it even though its exhausting and at times miserable. I guess I just really need something to overcome to help justify my life’s purpose. I dont know.
My brother many of us feel this way. Take it one day at a time, what can you challenge yourself with in one day? There's exercise, money making, studies, enjoying music, enjoying video media, perhaps even more trivial things like simply being kind to one person per day, or having a positive interaction with a stranger, or even cooking a meal that is good to your taste. I hope you are well today. Our purpose in this game is to choose a purpose, you and I are both in university, we have chosen a master (for now), personally my future master will be money, I want to be rich as fuck.
I believe one of the purposes in life is to maintain order, and that the world in inherently chaotic or moves towards chaos. For example: Don't clean your house, don't wash your dished, don't maintain your lawn, don't fix your car, don't fix the leaks in your roof, don't maintain your relationship, don't work hard, don't improve yourself and see what happens, your life will slowly start to deteriorate and fall into chaos. You are happiest when you have your life in order. One rule of life, don't force others to do stuff they don't want to (unless your are responsible for them), some people have to taste the bitterness of chaos in order to learn the value of order.
Maybe people just have a blueprint in their subconscious that tells them what they are. If the blueprint says the person probably will never make any money, the person acts that way, even if it appears that they DO have a bit of money. It can get worse than that. It's why lottery winners frequently wind up in exactly the same place they were before they won the money. The blueprint is called the 'self image.' It is, from what I think I know, the most powerful aspect of a personality. It moulds reality in its own image. It's not just in money. Suppose the person's blueprint or self image is that he doesn't do well with women. The person acts out this reality, and then finds it to be true, because he made the situation in his own image. I used to actually feel that I was no good with women. My mother pointed out all the women I had around me, and suggested that my inner image was wrong. When I approached women with a better self image, the results were astounding. Changing the self image, or blueprint, is the principle object of success training. If a person hates himself, or sabotages himself, it is essential to change the self image first, before success can occur. Apply this to any challenge and I think you'll see that this is right. I"m sure there are people out there who may have other insights into these subjects. I'd like to hear what others have to say. I'm not a psychologist. I'm a reporter, photographer, and writer. I have been at this stuff since I was around 12 years old. Actual psychology students may have other interesting view points to add.
This is why this lecture is confusing. Peterson himself admits in other lectures that your imagination can create a new 'image' for your future, and you can BE better. Yet, here, he's almost saying that humans are doomed to irrational-dysfunction because we'll always seek out problems even if there are none. "Yeah, you can grow, but you'll always return to your irrational nature." -Pretty much sums most of Peterson's lectures on human beings.
Aaron Laflin the only one I can think of is that he knew the lecture would be made available on RUclips and he could view the lecture again whenever he wanted; perhaps when he was less hungover
I'm 100% heterosexual but if I ever had the chance to meet Dostoevsky I would turn 99% gay. I was not a reader in high school, I wasnt the best student at all but Crime and Punishment was the only book I have read entirely in those 4 years, and I was captivated by it. Since then, I have read probably everything Dostoevsky has written, and Crime and Punishment I have read at least 5 times. Honestly, I don't think there has ever been a better writer in our entire history. I'm currently re-reading Demons and one of the topics there is also the criticism of the "new idea" that will save the country and humans, but it's nothing but an empty shell... Anyways...absolutely love mr. Peterson.
The painful, distressing question to be drawn from this criticism.. if such a utopian ideal is so counter-progressive to the nature of man, if the mass majority of men possess these "flaws" which would label them in need healing - and the minority, those that seek to do this healing.. who, then, of the two parties is truly insane? Whom is really the more destructive of the two? Personally, this is a question I contend with every day and.. may for the rest of my days.
@@scribej5473 what do you think the answer is? Much of the time I do believe that trying to heal what ails others goes against nature and so those that heal suffer more for it
@@TheeStoicc perhaps all people would be better off healing themselves? maybe mine, yours, and everyone else's ideas about life and purpose are just mental gymnastic distractions that satiate us just enough to keep on finding meaning in life. personally I have found self-improvement to be very beneficial to mental health
There's an underlying assumption here which I don't agree with; namely that someone who is flawed cannot well heal someone else, or themselves. If there is a surgeon has only one leg, he is clearly disabled but may still be able to provide excellent surgical assistance to someone whose physical condition demands it. Why should it not be thus also with mental healing? As long as the one assisting with the healing does everything within his power to make sure his particular illness does not affect the healing process of the other, there is no necessity of failure.
@@xn85d2 I agree, the idea certainly wouldn't be binary - we can all heal each other in diverse and nuanced ways. Sometimes those who are flawed help and heal others: those who are familiar and aware with what they themselves are going through and see it in others - something like depression I imagine. I think the real difficulty may be in seeing and understanding that there is an attainable alternative to our perspectives and suffering - if no one ever teaches you that and you don't acquire the notion from books or other media, you can very easily live the rest of life accepting the status quo of how one's life has turned out. Maybe the answer is education
rather than satisfaction i think we want a surprise in life. surprise = satisfaction because it's something new, something not seen before and it gives you a thrill! i expect war and misery and it bores me to no end. surprise me with a better world with new ups and downs not just our same old shitty habits. suprise me that we can actually do it even if everyone tells you it's not possible! that's us that's humans, we do the impossible just because it's there to grasp and we don't take no for an answer even if everything points in the other direction
I want to show my gratitude for the creation of this video and give back to it by commenting for algorithm sakes. But I will give someone that to me... is pure honesty and communicated to you at the best of my ability. This... Video..., Jordans explinatioms and... his ability to spread this, even to me. I love this. I want it to be understood by more. I wish for this to be seen.
Notes From Underground has been a favorite for years. I can say that on every page I was either astonished at a point he made or chuckled out loud at his humor. Nietzsche, Dostoyevsky, Kierkegaard, and Thoreau are all wonderful (unless you're a collectivist).
@@tescheurich collectivism is a lie. It's a falsehood. It's wrong. It's unfree. It's totalitarianism. It's evil. Individualism is truth and freedom, and better for the collective at large than collectivism itself.
@@ollikoskiniemi6221 by all means, be a bezzerwizzer for amusement on the internet. If you occasionally listened to collectivists, you'd know what a dead-end self indulgence that is once it has gone on long enough.
Of course a world where everyone's basic needs were provided to them wouldn't be a Utopia, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't make people's lives better. The vast majority of people who worry about making rent or feeding their families would be glad to be rid of that particular hardship, and it's not like there isn't enough to go around. Do people need to struggle in order to be happy? Sure, but people tend to be happier when they have the luxury of choosing their struggles.
The clear inability of the students to focus fully on the speaker says volumes about declining attention spans. I am quite sure that the inability today to listen carefully to what people are saying (regardless of who the speaker is) poses an existential problem to our civilisation.
Denian Arcoleo. I think you will find that the gestalt of what Mr Peterson is saying can be gleaned, by his message, the details are merely thought provoking examples. Kudos to him, but I understand his student's. I am also happy he continues to help countless people across the globe, merely by his words.
Even though it may be impossible to be purely good in this world I will strive to ask myself: "How can I become better and, even if I fail, will I become better by that effort?"
MisterAwestasia Failure teaches you 10x more than success. Look at your accomplishments numerically (repetition and so on). That way you can know for sure just how much better you are getting.You
if conceptual ideals (idealism) are essentially or even simply theoretically impossible to attain then what purpose does the concept serve and why does idealism exist and why is it continually in the perifary/perameters of our awareness or consciousness? idealisms of all kinds are included within the spectrum of universal possibilities as a goading vehicle for progress towards learning and growth and for that reason alone have been accepted as a conceptual functional benefic that serves the ego much less than it serves the development of integrity. it's 'okay' to have ideals and to strive towards them, but self awareness makes or breaks how functional and far they can be taken. it's the self awareness/self observation part that determines the overall achievement of functional ideals for society as a whole. enlightenment itself is an achievable ideal but same as utopian ideals it is not exactly what the western mind thinks it is.
we would not have civilization or an educational system if idealism were not an actively functional benefic. MrAwestasia has demonstrated applied idealism.
Despite being only a hundred pages the first 40 or so are quite dense. The second half moves much quicker. But I found that I had to slow down and really pay close attention in that first portion.
@@craigsips8677 - Admittedly, I will have to read it again sometime to absorb it all. But it's definitely funny in how pathetic that the Underground Man acts and gives you a good laugh. But it also made me reflect on how silly and spiteful I can personally act at times. How nonsensical I can be (we can all be that way I'd assume). This is not a character to emulate.
Absolutely amazing line of reasoning. I know for myself, most if if not all of the “issues” in my life I am upset with are correctible if I put in the work. Perhaps the perfect life is having normal problems and being able to successfully tackle them and being rewarded with the feeling of accomplishment. But of course living true to yourself goes hand in hand with this.
Dostoyevsky saw man as someone who is fated to not want to be fated, or as being 'a piano key solely because he doesn't want to be a piano key', and I always thought that as much of a 'loser'' Dostoyevsky tries to make out of the underground man, the underground man is also represented as being the man who is at the crux of ability and great things - its just that this 'one' underground man doesn't take charge of the wealth of fertile possibility he has at his feet.
Fun factoid: Von Mises went into detail on the nature of human action the notion of satiation of all preference, and how thought and action are only possible where preference is unmet and there is something man sees and thinks "this should change!". In a state of nature where there is no unmet want, man no longer exists. Instead a zen-like being, empty of any consideration at all. He would be less than a cow.
sequorroxx no, that is the excuse for letting ourselves off the hook. when nothing is left to do, learning to increase our appreciation for that and to cultivate thoughts and actions which maintain that are what must be done, and what give us pleasure. (we can learn to enjoy almost anything. wed have a chance then to learn to enjoy utopia. (it requires effort to enjoy, which defines it as utopia. consider this against every other processed option, you can see why we fail.)) one option is akin to working and playing hard and then fairly winning the Stanley cup, anf afterward seeing our name inscribed. The other is akin to stealing it, putting our name on it and claimng we won it. Our culture rewards this, processed paths to happiness cultivates this. but we are capable of paradigm shift when the opportunity arises, and we'll need to be to get and remain there. a person who insists on having a problem to solve will start creating them if left with none too long. But that is not the true limit of people. the comment fazes people who live externally but describes only them.
@@h20-p6g You put it beautifully friend. We are more malleable than many believe, it is up to ourselves to make our lives happy and meaningful, as it is simply unrealistic for every single tiny need to be met in full. They phrase things that we have no free will as if it is even possible for a person to be completely satisfied with everything in life, I think the yin and yang, the Dao, is more true to life than any nihilist bullshit.
For some, decrying utopia ideals is, ironically, its own utopia. The word utopia means "no place". People typically use the word to describe a Platonic world without problems that people should strive to achieve. But frequently, the word gets appropriated by people who wish to summarily disparage views on progressivity. And for some, that is where they want society to go to -- to their own utopia of cynical rationality.
This actually explains why some people are against getting vaccinated. It has nothing to do with the virus and everything to do with free will.
You got that right. Someone like William Wallace would fight to the death in the name of Freedom.👍
mortality data actually
Accurate 💯💯
You mean selfishness
Yeah, because those people are irrational and even when they are faced with an option that would just provide benefits, that is, being vaccinated, they still choose not to, in a mere act of irrationality. It's dumb and irresponsible.
"What if being dissatisfied is part of what satisfies you?" absolutely brilliant.
LifeGame my wife totally fits that description
Yup
brain cant comprehend, brb after reboot
Sort of like how people deep down enjoy being miserable, since they feel special in a twisted way.
Dopamine and serotonin.
I am a simple man, i see Peterson, i clean my room...
VitaSineLibertatenih I buy lobsters
@@corvodraken3049 I buy lobsters and make them clean my room for me. And if any of them try to leave before it's done, the other lobsters drag them back inside.
so what you're saying is that simple men are incapable of cleaning their rooms independently
Volleybalmable he said he does clean his room
Same. (I'm a girl)
I am reading the book and while I do not have the critical apparatuses or wish to unpack/analyse it, this is the book that has reached me to the core of my self. I feel seen and this lecture was a joy to experience!
I’m currently reading this book and after hearing Jordan break it down I’m like “damn I gotta read this again” lol. I wish Jordan did a commentary on these books so I could have his wisdom at hand while reading.
The cool thing about this is that it is basically Heidegger's criticism about Technology. Dostoievski is GOAT
This is the best speech I have ever heard .When something weird happen ,can not explain rationally,it's help
The main similarity between a wise person and a fool, is that they both seek perfection. The difference comes when the wise person realizes that the universe is so vast and complex, that the infinite variables of it and the limits of our senses makes perfection impossible to achieve. So the wise man becomes humble when he realizes that a big order of things governs the universe and that he is not a part of the world, but an entity that is composed of the inheritance of all the individuals who came after him...and for that reason, chooses to perpetuate it. The fool will just try to blame something or someone for his lack of understanding of the things. Because to the fool the most important thing in this world is himself, so he will try to validate himself before the world for his approval (the world being the public opinion, the masses). And the fool will hate the wise, because the wise chooses not to be part of the world and chooses based in faith and actions. The fool thinks that just believing is enough, and avoids anything that could potentially prove him wrong. The wise will put his faith to the test, and if his belief is wrong he will retract and try to correct his error. If a scientist can not prove his hypothesis, he modifies it or tries to formulate a new one which he will also test, repeating this until he finds the truth.
God blessed.
well put from a Spiritual Scientist perspective
The more you know, the more you know that there is more you need to know.
Not all Scientists are wise, just as not all Priests are holy...
Richard V Sassoon Dont worry about them. Worry about you. Either way it's the best (and only) thing to do.
cronoschild a fool will think he knows everything because he doesn't know how much he doesn't know.
While growing up... I found and often used the phrase... "You can't value the good times if you don't have bad times to compare it to." My parents standard replay to our childish complaints about thing in life was "No one promised life is fair." It was not meant in a mean or sarcastic manner... it was said in a very matter of fact way...
It comes as a great relief to know that I am not the first person in history to wrestle with these doubts.
He is so right about the quality of this book. To this day, it is the best book I have ever read. Because, this book is just a mirror for your mind. And maybe I like Peterson, because he is in a way Dostoyevsky of modern times.
It's not a book to read in jail I'll tell you that. It really hits hard in that environment.
Absolutely brilliant. I recently was in touch with a coworker from a few years back & remembering my behaviour and feelings then in relation to them, I'm ashamed to admit that perhaps I'm one of the ones who hasn't changed-- even after knowing where I went wrong. E.g. I still feel quickly provoked and defensive with this person. *How* do we change in these instances I wonder?!!
I know of no other author past or present that gets to the heart of psychology as does Dostoyevsky.
My daily dose of Jordan.
Goosebumps.
Men unlike the beasts find their meaning in the hunt, it is either in cruelty or coincidence men so quickly loose themselves in the hunt and it's unquenching appetites.
After watching this, I'm reminded of Lori Loughlin and the college admissions scandals going on right now. Being rich and famous, she has it all, and yet she is engaged in cheating for her daughters.
For freaking USC. LOL. Not even a school that's hard to get into
I have come to realize that Jordan is a perfect mixture of Dostoevsky and Nietzsche.
To think that this was written nearly 100 years ago and not only did it come to fruition with the soviets, but also The Western culture. We have never been more rich and educated and prosperous in the entirety of the world and yet people still complain that they are being oppressed and life has never been harder. That they fight for rights that has been given more than 100 years before and the idea that even if we live in a perfect world (left or right) people will more than likely always push back and want more. I find this so incredible and interesting. God I wish I could ask him questions and talk one on one with this man. I have so much I want to know.
Peterson's voice coveys the strain in his thinking.Peterson falls apart under scrutiny.
Hmm. Explains why, when confronted on talk shows across the world, he maintains absolute calm and dismantles his opponents. Sure.
Best JP vídeo to date.
And then ppl who had no clue who dostojevski was never reached for any books anyways, but still thought what a smart man, how right JP is.
The heart of this video for me was 4:19. If you give everyone what they want and need, there's no reason whatsoever to assume that it will make them rational. The terrible truth. But then again, it may not be so terrible....
Lololol.. the thumbnail for the video!
The issue with this line of thinking, is that it only takes extreme measures into account, but never a reasonable happy medium. The point in modern society isn't to give everyone everything, but to give equal opportunities to everyone, at every point in their lives.
Because of the vast differences in upbringing, many people do not mature into true adulthood until they're 30-40, and even then, do not have the mental or physical strength to push themselves for years longer just to save the money that they'd need for college, in order to attain a job that would make them happy in life.
The current so-called system of equality that we have, is built upon the mindset that we are all exactly the same person, with exactly the same way of thinking, the exact same mental and physical capabilities, and mitigations. And if that were the case, then equality of opportunity within the current system would entirely be a thing, but it's not.
And if what he says is true, then why is it that the filthy rich aren't the ones robbing stores, and killing people in the streets? Those activities are predominantly taken on by those in poverty. People don't want fear, confrontation, or chaos; that's why so many of us live in this system under a state of cognitive dissonance. We fear the potentially adverse affects of changing the system, or of questioning it, or of making any moves that could set us into a less comfortable way of life than the lives we're currently living.
Of course that doesn't mean that the current system is ideal, only that (for many of us), it's comfortable. But, comfort is the enemy of progress.
This is exactly what I criticize
Tecnically no matter how secure we may become after UBI, we still cant stop meteors, meateor storms, solar flares, earthquakes, lightning, snow, or whatever else fills the blank. Can't a man just be able to have a home as one less worry on the checklist of all things possibly coming!
Correct, I am a guitar fret
They did my boy wrong with this thumbnail
The thumbnail lmao
Not being content? We are meant to rise up and accept divinity or fall, thus letting reality fill the void.
This excerpt that Jordan Peterson was analyzing corresponds to the Part 1 of the book "Notes from the Underground".
It is just 60 pages long, and I highly recommend you guys go reading, it's very interesting and provocative! 😉👍
Now THIS is a man who cleans his lobster before casting judgment on another. Much respect!
If the students in this class understood what he is saying, they would all be clapping.
Russian men are not piano keys... Western men are.
German and Swedish men are piano foot pedals.
dont you have a state parade to turn up or else?
We both like the Mongolian women best.😁
I am sad as I very much resemble this man from Notes from Underground. I realize this..,I am now surely gonna read it all and look an another perception and change
Monitary means provides the ability to be free from unfavorable chains. It gives an intelagent person the power to persue complex & expensive goels otherwise lost due to monitary needs. Freedom to move from class shackles. . The ignorant & unintrested become sedentary.
Makes me think of the band The Black Keys.
10/10 thumbnail
The Law of Undulation : Peaks and Troughs is how C.S. Lewis termed it, and mankind is not in control of it. I don't jive with Dostoevsky.
These thumbnails have me weak😂
Good show ol boy
he is richard feynman of psychology
Didn't Alister Crowley live by the "show no restraint to thyself" philosophy?
One of the reasons I love the Internet is that there are students, bored out of their mind, sitting in Professor Peterson's class, but there is also a captive audience of thousands of people around the world, who enjoy everything he says and stay up late in order to listen to his words.
will you be my fwend too?
That's a bit presumptive.
You only see their face, not their feeling. I was constantly being told by my teachers that I looked bored and disinterested, that I wasn't even listening. They'd pick on me to answer questions thinking I didn't know what they were saying and I'd answer immediately. It always made me chuckle when they'd say "oh" and continue what they were doing.
@@highestsettings Just like it'd be presumptive to assume they all look bored and disinterested but are actually captivated by his speech and intently listening.
Regardless you are right Hoggar the internet for all it's flaws has some pretty amazing things like globally sharing videos such as these.
I doubt those students would come to the class if the material bored them. If they really were disinterested, they could just as easily be somewhere else and watch the recorded video later. They're not required to be in the classroom, so they come there because they want to hear and see JP.
when school taught me everything i need to know except my soul... which is everything I need to grow, everything that keeps me whole everything that ever meant anything to me so I leave with golden hopes to rip the leash that holds my focus but the fact remains the same, I'm still bound by chains, it doesn't matter if your chain is 10 feet or 100 feet the fact remains the same, you still bound by chains
Great thumbnail
Yeah, loved it too!
From the Matrix: "Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world where none suffered, where everyone would be happy? It was a disaster. No one would accept the program, entire crops were lost. Some believed that we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world, but I believe that as a species that human beings define their reality through misery and suffering. So the perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from." - Agent Smith
It was actually said by The Architect, but thank you for remind me such an awesome scene.
No it was not it was Smith in the First movie. Watch it again
@@sporegnosis oh yes. Sorry, nevermind.
Yep, exactly what came to my mind. Makes me wonder if the Wachowskis had read Dostoyevsky.
@Snaglebagel who's to say we aren't? If all reality a simulation is it not still real and does it matter?
Can I just say the thumbnail for this video is incredible.
hell he gets me to click on his videos evry tim
I always felt that Notes From Underground was a long description of 4chan.
Barry Purcell
the fourm for the underground man
lmao
sam zeng Pretty much.
Lmao love it
Notes from the basement that is :P
"The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art - flawless, sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure.
Amazing connection. Spot on.
I've listened to a couple hundred hours of his lectures....never bored, always learning. It's as if he is constantly smacking my face and screaming "Wake up. Think about this!" What a mind.
Hell, I've had massive enlightenment experiences 10 years ago, studied all the great psychological and esoteric traditions, all the authors he mentions (Jung, Campbell, Dostoyievsky, Mircea Eliade and many, many more besides), spent years applying the Work to myself and now have created myself a clinical coach practice -
And even then, I still can't stop listening to the man. I know how right he is, and how much work it represents to integrate that wisdom at an experiential level like he does. His poise just overflows with inner power. Remember when he insisted to Dyson? "Let's get precise - *precise*!"
Countless kudos!
Claude S. Whitacre I truly feel the same way!!!!! Then I copy and send it to as ma many friends as I can but his my drug jajajjaj JK he is addicting
That’s what a good teacher should do!
Also clean your room bucko. Mostly.
Definitively !!
I study Literature at college in my country, Italy. You may think it's odd for a traditionally conservative (but very chaotic, I know) country like mine, but leftist, SJW mentality is slowly entering college students' mindset even here. I absolutely hate the fact that they seem to think of me as some kind of fascist even though I'd call myself a classic liberal, but the thing I despise the most about them is their blind, cowarldy utopianism. I say cowardly because every time I try to get them to face (by reading, for instance, some good book, like Notes from the Underground, which I love) the fact that their ideology can be refuted, and brilliantly, too, they'll just shrug and not read the thing. Watching these lessons always makes me feel a lot better.
Same for germany. I was called a sexistic, harassing Nazi several times without the topic being about race etc. at all. All of that just because i spoke in the name of science and facts at an open discussion.
My statement ultimately was "my opinion may not always be the right opinion, so i need to rely on facts to find the truth".
(I'm an engineer, i want to know things for sure, not believe in my opinion)
I wouldn't say there is really anything traditionally conservative about Italy. That is more, the traditional leftist strategy of equating anything to the right of Marxism to be fascism. Being Italian, you probably got a shit-ton of brainwashing about Mussolini in your primary schooling. Fascism, in Mussolini's mind was the optimal route to Socialism. You see, no matter what anyone told you in school, Mussolini was a true believer in socialist ideals. He rejected violent class revolution outright though, which is why he split with Italian Socialist Party, who were all about that Bolshevik style slaughter. In the end though, both Mussolini and Marx's routes to socialist utopia were disastrous.
These days, fascist is just another term for skinheads and its lost all of its original meaning. One more victory for leftists and their destruction of language.
Yup, you got that right. I meant conservative as in 'more traditional religious ideas' (especially in the south) and 'more traditional ideas about the family'. Italian kids are thoroughly told, and rightfully so, about Mussolini and the horrors of fascism (and nazis), but the socialist origin of Mussolini's ideas is often...looked over. So we don't really get how dangerous utopianism, of all political colors, is; just how dangerous extreme right-wingers are. Also, if there is a people with short term memory, it's Italians. We're not as tormented by guilt as Germans, which is kinda good on one side because we don't have those culturally suicidal ideas, but it's also bad and really sad, because most Italians don't give a shit about history or about anything else. I know I sound like I'm just hating on my generation and my country and all that shit, but I just can't stand seeing all the lack of values, lack of thinking, lack of interest and curiosity, all this general zero fucks given attitude... Generally speaking,young Italians are just every bit children of nihilism like their other western peers, because nihilism, especially this nihilism for dummies they're selling on campuses, is such an easy and lazy idea to embrace. I'm not trying to sound better than anyone, I'm just saddened by the situation, it boggles my mind...as I said, I study Literature and I actually believe in the slice of truth humanities can pursue. Seeing it reduced, on a daily basis, to dynamics of power and class destroys the spirit.
2T5MUU I'm a young American guy and I thought it was just me but it seems most young people (is it just this generation or was it past ones as well?) don't want to grow up. We want the utopia where we don't have to work or be responsible, we want to drink beer all day and travel the world and fuck each other like bunnies in heat, we want it all and we want it now. I think we realize utopia is unrealistic so we find nihilism instead and that's similar in the sense that we can say oh well, we're all gonna die so who cares if I chain smoke or OD on heron or do nothing of value with my life. Peterson has opened my eyes though, because he talks about bearing our burdens and making the sacrifice and accepting life and growing up, and no one has ever articulated these lessons in such a way to me. Maybe it's because I'm done drifting around aimlessly (and I guess that's nihilism) so to find happiness and enlightenment and to reap the seeds I sow, I have to move on and grow up and bear my burden because life is suffering and I never wanted to accept that but now that actually gets me excited if that makes sense. And I've been seeing more and more young people coming to terms with this through Peterson's lectures.
I don't know about the IQ thing (and don't really care much either, I know a lot of people who score high in IQ tests and then act like bumbling idiots or robots in academic life), but we certainly don't have a great education system: it's old, rotting, and doesn't help smart people who want to actually learn to succeed. I've met a few brilliant fellow italian students, and they all went to another country for the master's degree. Thing is, we don't even have enough money to support education and research, most school buildings suck and so on, because we're spending so much money trying to manage all the immigrants we take in from Africa and Middle East, and half of the money gets eaten up by the mafia anyways. But yes, it's more a shitshow in the south than in central (where I live) or northern Italy.
"Man can do what he wants, but not want what he wants." - Arthur Schopenhauer
"I hope you didn't have kids, loser"
-Arthur Schopenhauer
@@Tomme_S ?
You hit on Dostoevsky's greatest point...the awful and wonderful aspect of human experience that is free will...whether it's the Grand Inquisitor in Karamazov, or the passages you cite, we will do absolutely anything, including the self-destructive, to prove we have agency...free will. And this is why he is maybe as important as St. Paul in explaining Christianity to us.
jamelleholieway4 We don't have free will because we automatically attempt to prove that we have free will if we feel like we are being deprived of it. If we had free will, we could decide to be satisfied in an unstimulating environment.
I hope that you understand what I mean and that my logic is correct. I truly am a genius.
@@nihilismus9840 You're saying that a person struggling to leave an environment that is unsatisfying to them is them trying to prove to themselves or others that they have free will? Surely if one took a more physicalist perspective they'd come to a conclusion similar to that we have free will, yet it is somewhat directed by the constraints of our biology.
That's how I feel, regardless; my real question for you is why claim all people do not have free will when it is clear that humans are not simply biological robots, and that there is clearly some degree of freeness in every decision that anyone makes?
I only now just noticed your username and I am really opposed to nihilism myself, as we all cannot change the fact that we are "in the game", but we definitely can change how we play, or how we feel, or how we react, or even how our physical avatars look. There are things we can do to free ourselves, I mean that just choosing a path down which you will definitely struggle and suffer is free-will in itself, we do not have the option to not play, as even suicide is a free-will option. We have free-will within the game.
I'm just not sure that a person attempting to improve their current situation is an outcry (to themselves? or anyone) to prove they have agency in this world, as in my case, I gain money for selfish reasons, to purchase things that will bring me hedonistic joy, which I value based on my own standards of what is "cool" per say.
@@nihilismus9840 :dude dont listen Satan whispers in youre ears
The people who criticize Peterson and his success - I wonder how many of them have done this level of analysis on ANYTHING - in their personal, professional, or academic lives.
Critical thought often requires unlearning and that's probably out of the scope of their immediate proximal development.
@@linkinparkrulz2275 Mmhmm.
I mean, I'm sure some of them have.
@@userth13539 shut up nerd
@@userth13539 Whoa, he has followers?? Yikes!
I learned Russian to read Dostoevsky in his original language. Much. much more powerful than translated into English.
This is brilliant, I was just talking about this with my roommate. If everything was good, would anything be good?
Notes is more edgy than that. It isn't about why you would want some sweat and some sour in life. It is about how having both, neither, or everything you would set out to wreck your world kind of thing.
It is as in music there is discord that is then resolved... wait, there is some guy breaking a guitar apart over there.
David Fitzgerald no. Not on this planet. What's good for some will NOT be good for others. Though on an individual basis there can be a satisfactory contentment achieved through personal evolution. Life has three basic tenets, health, wealth and relationships. How we choose to relate within this reality will manifest our perceived outcome. One man, one lived experience. What will I express, project, create, or destroy as I fumble about in this what we deem LIFE. BTW may yours be filled with all the joy you can handle. ;-)
It reminds me of what the good dragon says in skyrim. Something to the effect of, it's better to be evil and to become good rather than to have always been good and never known any different.
I think if we resolve to always get a better guitar, then It's not all bad.
That reminds me of The Incredibles when Buddy (Syndrome) wants to give everyone super powers. "When everyone is super, then no one will be."
Reminds me of Biblical story of Adam and Eve. Given everything, we will still fuck it up.
Underrated comment
I see your point but it is technically impossible. Let’s say you could be given everything. Every atom, every modicum of whatever. There is still you. So it’s incomplete. Like a wave in the ocean. It may reach out for a moment but soon it will return to the collective. It is not capable of emancipation like a human is. We simply perceive it as something separate from the main water body.
How did they fuck up? They were infantile and god put his burning pit right in the middle of room.
but maybe men don't want what is given but what they want
@MrMorphicus Exactly, like a child burning themselves on a stove because of their ignorance.
I wish I was in Peterson's class. I sure as hell wouldn't be on my phone like that dude in the front row. That's why I love all these videos and why I never wanted to go to college, cause when I seek out this knowledge I have an appreciation and passion for it but if I'm forced to be in a class and sit through a lecture (like that guy) I may or may not be interested in, I'd be on my phone or falling asleep or in a different place in my head.
I wish they would film it to cut out the students, some look apathetic, and I find them off putting.
There are students in the video!? sorry guess I didn't notice them.
dman I totally disagree with your choice of the word forced; because anyone who's in University, is there by choice. At times, yes it does feel that we're forced. But that's more often than not our own conscious choice to show up to class and learn. Nobody's forcing you to attend class.
Sam Doohan and what if some of those students are perfectly happy with being reduced to piano keys and prosperity is exactly what they want? Even in Dostojewsky's Russia most people were not as described by him in this quote. We must remember that bolshevic revolution has been led by small group of insane individuals. Most people are not insane, because they are delusional about them being free. They are unaware of being piano keys and its good for them. Some people, that are intelligent and educated enough, know the truth about their freedom, but repress it getting busy with pursuing goals like careers. They are much like Christians who don't really believe but keep their religious practices just for the peace of mind. They repress what they know is true about human condition. And its good. What is not good and bring destruction, are unsuccessful individuals who are obsessed with the meaning of life to justify their relative socioeconomic failure. So when Dr Peterson talks about human condition it hardly describe physicists and mathematicians on his university, but the other end of the spectrum very much so. Don't get me even ask the question how does it corellate to IQ.
liambeatz I used that word for two reasons. 1) when they put you through the system it feels a lot like college is shoved down your throat and to break out of that rat race takes a lot of courage and independence because regardless of what every person concerned with the outcome of your life might say there is more than one path to success. A lot of people in college are probably just going through the motions because that's what they were supposed to do and they don't even know what they want or how to get it. Peterson himself has even said college is never never land, an excuse to not grow up and join the real world, to continue lacking any real responsibility or accountability and the trade off is indentured servitude. College is pressured on people because it's a signal but the job market is so watered down with recent liberal arts degree holders that I don't think it's as powerful of a signal as before.
2) someone already explained in a comment above. If they're majoring in some degree unrelated to philosophy or psychology but this class is a requirement or they just need the credits then yes they're forced to go to graduate and they're probably not interested in Dostoevsky or Jung or anything Peterson is saying cause they just need to pass and keep their GPA up. You could probably zone out most of the class and fuck around on your phone and then get everything you need for homework in a textbook. What Peterson is talking about is enlightening to say the least but from my perspective if I was in a class I would take it for granted too just cause I have such a negative idea of school and classrooms and I tend to shut down and literally nod off in those situations because of that. So taking this (and any) information in on my own time through RUclips and online classes really suits me better I guess.
Any one who has lived through high school knows this is true for the huge majority of the population. We do stupid acts, knowing they are stupid, just to prove we are independent of those wise people who try to guide us.
this is a very good example. this is why kids today still need to read this book. the lessons dostoevsky taught are timeless
I realised this as a child while daydreaming about heaven, that it would be utterly unsatisfying.
I read C.S. Lewis as an older child, and his depictions of heaven were far more compelling than the simplistic 'freedom from all sufferring and necessities' ideas I got from churchgoers. I found them insipid and oversimple when set beside the high drama of moral duty and war in heaven and showing compassion in the midst of a ruthless culture.
Such depictions are in _Perelandra_ , _The Great Divorce_ , and _The Last Battle_ .
Andre Costin Then heaven is different.
Andre Costin. Me too. Although I think life is a dream anyway.
If good and perfection and love are unsatisfying, then heaven isn't where you will choose to go. God sends no one anywhere. When we die we gravitate towards what resonates with our hearts. If chaos and darkness and death resonates, we will choose the place where others of like spirit are creating that very reality. If light and love and peace and beauty delight us, we still choose the place which reflects that. In no way are we placed where we don't want to be. Perhaps we don't like the consequences of what we have chosen, but that's a different topic all together. God is all about free will. He wants us to choose Him and His Kingdom freely because love must be free of it is truly love. We have all rights to freely choose the dark realm too. God doesn't want robots. That's the other guy. The other guy is obsessed with control.
Depends on the world you are escaping from.
The Brothers Karamazov is the best book ever written.
K Dub did you read every book? wow i'm STUNNED! pick up proust, joyce, nietzsche, sartre, borges, camus, Fitzgerald, Beckett, wilde, aristophanes, ETC
Settle down Matty, he's allowed to have a favorite.
Proust, Sartre, Camus, always the same select few French authors, ignoring the greatest of the 20th century : Louis-Ferdinand Céline.
Not forgetting Brigette Jones Diary.
Holy shit Matty, take a chill pill, mate.
No joke I've read this exact chapter yesterday and youtube is reccomending me this video. Coincidences like that make me question reality
Irithyll Beats synchronous or coincidence? You chose.
Foreal its past the point where I can blame it on my phone or Alexa listening to me these coincidences almost seem to transcend the capabilities of anything 3-dimensional having any part in it
Watch 'The Truman Show' movie my friend.
Question your electronics and technology, not reality
Honestly, I only clicked the the thumbnail...
...But stayed for Jordan Peterson
I read Dostoevsky and converted to the Russian Orthodox Church.
@ I doubt wether you understood 'Nietzsche', when that is the conclusion you make after reading his philosophy.
@@tommydebruin2949 I doubt whether you even understand what doubt even is. Or why there's a letter 'b' in it.
@ care to elaborate?
Hmmm ok
But he was an atheist
The irony is that I read the Underground Man and was horrified at the aspects of myself that related to him. I saw him as a man I didn't want to become, yet today happened.
That's the point of the book
Theres certainly no call to embrace Peterson's perverse take. Dostoyevsky wouldn't have liked Peterson nearly as much as Peterson likes Dostoyevsky.
Dude Im 25 years old woman I totally can relate with that character.
@@tescheurich What did Peterson get wrong? His analysis sounds correct and objectively shared with many other laureates across a varied landscape of disciplines. Care to enlighten us?
I really would like to see the exams he prepares
"Why, look you now, how unworthy a thing you make of me! You would play upon me. You would seem to know my stops. You would pluck out the heart of my mystery. You would sound me from my lowest note to the top of my compass. And there is much music, excellent voice, in this little organ, yet cannot you make it speak? 'Sblood, do you think I am easier to be played on than a pipe? Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, yet you cannot play upon me." - Hamlet Act 3, Scene 2
Always thought there was a direct line from Shakespeare to Distoyevski (to Kafka).
Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding... And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy
~ Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet
That's lovely. 🙏 💞
I think Mr. Spock quoted this concept best. "After a time you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting.It is not logical, but it is often true."
He will be relevant at all times, as it affects a lot of topics that require attention and understanding always and almost for any generation. This great writer was a profound psychologist. In his works shows such a depth of penetration into the human soul, which did not dream of modern psychotherapists. Read Dostoevsky, think and develop!
japan will retake the kurils sakhalin and Vladivostok south korea will take north korea.
I've just finished reading this book. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Incredible
I love the thumbnails soooo much. Who would've ever imagined that college-level lectures would have meme-like thumbnails with thug-life glasses and everything? Who would've ever guessed that a professor and his EDUCATIONAL lectures would go viral?
In a way I feel this during summer breaks from college. After one month I’m bored out of my mind because I have everything I need and no challenge to tackle. I end up having to put myself into self made challenges but man its just not the same. And when I’m at college I love it even though its exhausting and at times miserable. I guess I just really need something to overcome to help justify my life’s purpose. I dont know.
My brother many of us feel this way. Take it one day at a time, what can you challenge yourself with in one day? There's exercise, money making, studies, enjoying music, enjoying video media, perhaps even more trivial things like simply being kind to one person per day, or having a positive interaction with a stranger, or even cooking a meal that is good to your taste. I hope you are well today. Our purpose in this game is to choose a purpose, you and I are both in university, we have chosen a master (for now), personally my future master will be money, I want to be rich as fuck.
I believe one of the purposes in life is to maintain order, and that the world in inherently chaotic or moves towards chaos. For example:
Don't clean your house,
don't wash your dished,
don't maintain your lawn,
don't fix your car,
don't fix the leaks in your roof,
don't maintain your relationship,
don't work hard,
don't improve yourself
and see what happens, your life will slowly start to deteriorate and fall into chaos.
You are happiest when you have your life in order.
One rule of life, don't force others to do stuff they don't want to (unless your are responsible for them), some people have to taste the bitterness of chaos in order to learn the value of order.
...and I have met those who do not understand why they are in chaos.
Now we know that what we really need is Dostoevsky's whole body of work read by Jordan B. Peterson on Audible. Audible, if you read this, give me a %
Maybe people just have a blueprint in their subconscious that tells them what they are. If the blueprint says the person probably will never make any money, the person acts that way, even if it appears that they DO have a bit of money.
It can get worse than that.
It's why lottery winners frequently wind up in exactly the same place they were before they won the money.
The blueprint is called the 'self image.'
It is, from what I think I know, the most powerful aspect of a personality.
It moulds reality in its own image.
It's not just in money. Suppose the person's blueprint or self image is that he doesn't do well with women. The person acts out this reality, and then finds it to be true, because he made the situation in his own image.
I used to actually feel that I was no good with women. My mother pointed out all the women I had around me, and suggested that my inner image was wrong. When I approached women with a better self image, the results were astounding.
Changing the self image, or blueprint, is the principle object of success training. If a person hates himself, or sabotages himself, it is essential to change the self image first, before success can occur. Apply this to any challenge and I think you'll see that this is right.
I"m sure there are people out there who may have other insights into these subjects. I'd like to hear what others have to say. I'm not a psychologist. I'm a reporter, photographer, and writer. I have been at this stuff since I was around 12 years old. Actual psychology students may have other interesting view points to add.
This is why this lecture is confusing. Peterson himself admits in other lectures that your imagination can create a new 'image' for your future, and you can BE better. Yet, here, he's almost saying that humans are doomed to irrational-dysfunction because we'll always seek out problems even if there are none.
"Yeah, you can grow, but you'll always return to your irrational nature." -Pretty much sums most of Peterson's lectures on human beings.
Jam Jox
That's what psychoanalysis calls a pathology, a natural or 'native' pattern that one returns to by default.
So Dostoevsky’s idea is that men rather self distract with pain and pleasure than follow the society’s prescription for beautiful and lofty?
Russian Audio Books in English pretty much man
There's no rational explanation for why that person is on his phone during a JBP lecture.
Aaron Laflin the only one I can think of is that he knew the lecture would be made available on RUclips and he could view the lecture again whenever he wanted; perhaps when he was less hungover
Maybe he wants to prove he is not a piano key even at the cost of missing a JBP lecture.
Aaron Laflin . 👍😂Where would you like me to start?
I'm 100% heterosexual but if I ever had the chance to meet Dostoevsky I would turn 99% gay. I was not a reader in high school, I wasnt the best student at all but Crime and Punishment was the only book I have read entirely in those 4 years, and I was captivated by it. Since then, I have read probably everything Dostoevsky has written, and Crime and Punishment I have read at least 5 times. Honestly, I don't think there has ever been a better writer in our entire history. I'm currently re-reading Demons and one of the topics there is also the criticism of the "new idea" that will save the country and humans, but it's nothing but an empty shell... Anyways...absolutely love mr. Peterson.
The painful, distressing question to be drawn from this criticism.. if such a utopian ideal is so counter-progressive to the nature of man, if the mass majority of men possess these "flaws" which would label them in need healing - and the minority, those that seek to do this healing.. who, then, of the two parties is truly insane? Whom is really the more destructive of the two?
Personally, this is a question I contend with every day and.. may for the rest of my days.
ooooh, that is a tough question. i like it
@@scribej5473 what do you think the answer is? Much of the time I do believe that trying to heal what ails others goes against nature and so those that heal suffer more for it
@@TheeStoicc perhaps all people would be better off healing themselves? maybe mine, yours, and everyone else's ideas about life and purpose are just mental gymnastic distractions that satiate us just enough to keep on finding meaning in life. personally I have found self-improvement to be very beneficial to mental health
There's an underlying assumption here which I don't agree with; namely that someone who is flawed cannot well heal someone else, or themselves. If there is a surgeon has only one leg, he is clearly disabled but may still be able to provide excellent surgical assistance to someone whose physical condition demands it.
Why should it not be thus also with mental healing? As long as the one assisting with the healing does everything within his power to make sure his particular illness does not affect the healing process of the other, there is no necessity of failure.
@@xn85d2 I agree, the idea certainly wouldn't be binary - we can all heal each other in diverse and nuanced ways. Sometimes those who are flawed help and heal others: those who are familiar and aware with what they themselves are going through and see it in others - something like depression I imagine.
I think the real difficulty may be in seeing and understanding that there is an attainable alternative to our perspectives and suffering - if no one ever teaches you that and you don't acquire the notion from books or other media, you can very easily live the rest of life accepting the status quo of how one's life has turned out. Maybe the answer is education
rather than satisfaction i think we want a surprise in life. surprise = satisfaction because it's something new, something not seen before and it gives you a thrill! i expect war and misery and it bores me to no end. surprise me with a better world with new ups and downs not just our same old shitty habits. suprise me that we can actually do it even if everyone tells you it's not possible! that's us that's humans, we do the impossible just because it's there to grasp and we don't take no for an answer even if everything points in the other direction
Notes From Underground is one of my favorite books, second only to The Book of Disquiet.
Fantastic name😷🤗🦂
Tuga?
I want to show my gratitude for the creation of this video and give back to it by commenting for algorithm sakes.
But I will give someone that to me... is pure honesty and communicated to you at the best of my ability.
This...
Video..., Jordans explinatioms and... his ability to spread this, even to me.
I love this. I want it to be understood by more. I wish for this to be seen.
Notes From Underground has been a favorite for years. I can say that on every page I was either astonished at a point he made or chuckled out loud at his humor. Nietzsche, Dostoyevsky, Kierkegaard, and Thoreau are all wonderful (unless you're a collectivist).
The world needs just as many collectivists as individualists, and it needs us to fight over it every damn day.
@@tescheurich collectivism is a lie. It's a falsehood. It's wrong. It's unfree. It's totalitarianism. It's evil. Individualism is truth and freedom, and better for the collective at large than collectivism itself.
@@ollikoskiniemi6221 by all means, be a bezzerwizzer for amusement on the internet. If you occasionally listened to collectivists, you'd know what a dead-end self indulgence that is once it has gone on long enough.
Of course a world where everyone's basic needs were provided to them wouldn't be a Utopia, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't make people's lives better. The vast majority of people who worry about making rent or feeding their families would be glad to be rid of that particular hardship, and it's not like there isn't enough to go around.
Do people need to struggle in order to be happy? Sure, but people tend to be happier when they have the luxury of choosing their struggles.
The clear inability of the students to focus fully on the speaker says volumes about declining attention spans. I am quite sure that the inability today to listen carefully to what people are saying (regardless of who the speaker is) poses an existential problem to our civilisation.
Denian Arcoleo. I think you will find that the gestalt of what Mr Peterson is saying can be gleaned, by his message, the details are merely thought provoking examples. Kudos to him, but I understand his student's. I am also happy he continues to help countless people across the globe, merely by his words.
Even though it may be impossible to be purely good in this world I will strive to ask myself: "How can I become better and, even if I fail, will I become better by that effort?"
MisterAwestasia Failure teaches you 10x more than success. Look at your accomplishments numerically (repetition and so on). That way you can know for sure just how much better you are getting.You
if conceptual ideals (idealism) are essentially or even simply theoretically impossible to attain then what purpose does the concept serve and why does idealism exist and why is it continually in the perifary/perameters of our awareness or consciousness? idealisms of all kinds are included within the spectrum of universal possibilities as a goading vehicle for progress towards learning and growth and for that reason alone have been accepted as a conceptual functional benefic that serves the ego much less than it serves the development of integrity. it's 'okay' to have ideals and to strive towards them, but self awareness makes or breaks how functional and far they can be taken. it's the self awareness/self observation part that determines the overall achievement of functional ideals for society as a whole. enlightenment itself is an achievable ideal but same as utopian ideals it is not exactly what the western mind thinks it is.
we would not have civilization or an educational system if idealism were not an actively functional benefic. MrAwestasia has demonstrated applied idealism.
This video is why I'm subscribed to this channel. His lectures are so thought provoking.
This is why the first matrix failed. Entire crops were lost...Mr Anderson
You got me on 'it's only about a hundred pages long'.
Compared to the phone books 📚 of the rest of his books lol
Despite being only a hundred pages the first 40 or so are quite dense. The second half moves much quicker. But I found that I had to slow down and really pay close attention in that first portion.
Colin what did you think though? Did you get anything from it?
@@craigsips8677 - Admittedly, I will have to read it again sometime to absorb it all. But it's definitely funny in how pathetic that the Underground Man acts and gives you a good laugh. But it also made me reflect on how silly and spiteful I can personally act at times. How nonsensical I can be (we can all be that way I'd assume). This is not a character to emulate.
Colin may have a look for myself. The good thing about dead authors is that their work can be easily found on the net for free.
Thanks Colin
I love this man so much. So much to be grateful for.
you can download almost all dostoesvsky'S books on pirate bay......
Right? There are also these things called libraries which generally are completely free. Used books are dirt cheap too.
i prefer pdf
Or buy old copies for a couple bucks each, if you don't like reading on a screen.
dostoevskty is no doubt out of copyright and therefore free. Try Gutenberg
You can get them for free on Kindle through amazon.com
Absolutely amazing line of reasoning.
I know for myself, most if if not all of the “issues” in my life I am upset with are correctible if I put in the work. Perhaps the perfect life is having normal problems and being able to successfully tackle them and being rewarded with the feeling of accomplishment. But of course living true to yourself goes hand in hand with this.
Dostoyevsky saw man as someone who is fated to not want to be fated, or as being 'a piano key solely because he doesn't want to be a piano key', and I always thought that as much of a 'loser'' Dostoyevsky tries to make out of the underground man, the underground man is also represented as being the man who is at the crux of ability and great things - its just that this 'one' underground man doesn't take charge of the wealth of fertile possibility he has at his feet.
Exactly
Fun factoid: Von Mises went into detail on the nature of human action the notion of satiation of all preference, and how thought and action are only possible where preference is unmet and there is something man sees and thinks "this should change!". In a state of nature where there is no unmet want, man no longer exists. Instead a zen-like being, empty of any consideration at all. He would be less than a cow.
do you have exact citation?
sequorroxx no, that is the excuse for letting ourselves off the hook.
when nothing is left to do, learning to increase our appreciation for that and to cultivate thoughts and actions which maintain that are what must be done, and what give us pleasure. (we can learn to enjoy almost anything. wed have a chance then to learn to enjoy utopia. (it requires effort to enjoy, which defines it as utopia. consider this against every other processed option, you can see why we fail.))
one option is akin to working and playing hard and then fairly winning the Stanley cup, anf afterward seeing our name inscribed.
The other is akin to stealing it, putting our name on it and claimng we won it. Our culture rewards this, processed paths to happiness cultivates this.
but we are capable of paradigm shift when the opportunity arises, and we'll need to be to get and remain there.
a person who insists on having a problem to solve will start creating them if left with none too long. But that is not the true limit of people.
the comment fazes people who live externally but describes only them.
fenrisvargen That Mises book is called Human Action.
@@h20-p6g You put it beautifully friend. We are more malleable than many believe, it is up to ourselves to make our lives happy and meaningful, as it is simply unrealistic for every single tiny need to be met in full.
They phrase things that we have no free will as if it is even possible for a person to be completely satisfied with everything in life, I think the yin and yang, the Dao, is more true to life than any nihilist bullshit.
This is the good that comes from University. Great job Dr. Peterson!!!
For some, decrying utopia ideals is, ironically, its own utopia. The word utopia means "no place". People typically use the word to describe a Platonic world without problems that people should strive to achieve. But frequently, the word gets appropriated by people who wish to summarily disparage views on progressivity. And for some, that is where they want society to go to -- to their own utopia of cynical rationality.
What a great professor.
My favorite part of the book is his dream on the Greek Isles, It creates such a powerful image.