P3 old cast vs new cast
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- In 1978, Nathan was having a huge surge in business due to new orders for K horns. To keep up with demand, they subcontracted out the casting of the P series bells (and later other P series parts.) When they subcontracted the casting out, they also made new mold patterns for the bells and other parts. These new mold patterns didn't follow the original specifications, and as a result every new cast P bell except the #4 and 0 bell changed their sound. Before 1978 the bells say Pat Pending on the bell foot. After 1978 they say pat Pend. Horn collectors refer to this difference as new cast (post 78) and old cast (pre 78). Manifolds and back caps also changed, but only the bells affect the sound.
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That Old Cast P3 Horn is just heavenly, and is always a childhood memory from my past!
I like that the old cast sounds like a direct relative of the M3. I know it’s the successor to the M3, originally blowing the same chord with less air and maintenance. I can’t help but picture SP whenever I hear a new cast. Well done comparison, thank you!
2:51 Dennis uses Nathan P3 horn from Sodor Diesels With American Horns
I love the P3. As I live in California yes, it was Southern Pacific that used these and you could always tell what train you heard just by the horn. Amtrak and Santa Fe each used a different horn. The notes are an A major chord in second inversion; C sharp, E, and A
Yes I love the P3’s!!
The N5s we have on the Norristown High Speed line have the new cast P3s with all diaphragms facing forward. Real attention getter as these are one of the loudest horns I've ever heard on SEPTA and the sound can carry far too like the K3LAs on the Silverliner Vs. I think NS 4030 has an old cast one which I saw on an Ethanol train today in Bridgeport PA and boy was I stunned by the beauty of the sound.
Thanks putting this together. Feel very lucky finding old cast P3's on ebay last week, testing, sounding great! Looking forward installing them.
Matt, guess what, thanks to your help and knowledge, I decided to get a P3. I'm getting it from Tom Aker. I talked to him on the phone and he gave me a great deal. I'm getting it all bells forward. Can't wait to get this horn. He told me a RS5T would be a lot of maintenance and also need a lot of air. Also the diaphrams go bad fast where as a P3 is less maintenance. Also he said all 3 bells will still sound at 70psi. Now that's cool. Just had to tell you.
Old cast p3 sounds good, thanks for taking my request!
One thing I like about the P3's as I like both of them. OC has that more deeper mellow tone though. Good compare and contrast video.
I live near a line that was served by PRR!
Your so lucky you are near northern Pacific's old line!
I remember the old cast P3 horn very well Also Denver and Rio Grande Western Just when was the transition of old cast to bew cast I first recall new cast P3 about December 1983 Rio Grande
1976 was when the new mold patterns were made. Rio Grande was an M3 road till SP took over, their three GP60’s were built to SP specs.
That old cast P3 is absolutely beautiful, sounds just like an SP horn even though it's in an NP configuration (might be the same). I'd definitely take the Old Cast's A Major inversion over the New Cast's odd hybrid chord
SP's sounded lile new casts. Not all but alot of them
@@ReadingAreaRailfan I absolutely hear ya! Haha, but seriously when I picture SP, it’s a new cast I am hearing in my head. The thing I love about the old cast, is that it’s the same chord as the M3 (my favorite). Which makes sense since the P3 was designed to replace the M3.
Excellent vid my friend (love the sound of trains),
New Cast's seem harsher, but they sound a lot more like SP compared to the Old Cast's.
That's funny because SP mostly had old cast horns.
I grew up listening to the original mid-60's delivered SD45's and SD40's, before the tunnel motor SD40T's in the late 70's. Those originals had Old Cast P3's, and this audio sounds just like them. So maybe NP and SP had the same configuration?
A P3 is a P3, they sound the same no matter what railroad used them. Only difference was old cast and new cast.
Personaly i thinl the new cast P3's fit the C44-9W pretty well
P3’s 4 LIFE!!!
Southern Pacific used both of these. Really miss hearing the Nathan P3. The 3rd generation Nathan K5LLA sounds very reminiscent of this, but with more notes.
SP used the P3. There was never an option to order old cast or new cast, the change happened in 1977 due to poor quality control from Nathan.
NP's setup sounds softer than SP's, it's especially noticeable on the Old Cast where it almost sounds muffled compared to SP's new or old cast horns.
The New Cast does have more of an edge like SP, but it still has a noticeably lower sound.
Too bad that we can't hook up together. I have an actual old Southern Pacific Railroad Crossing bell that came from the Colfax, CA area. I caught up with a Union Pacific worker installing an electronic bell, and taking down the old bell. I bought the bell. So I wish I could make a video of the new p3 cast horn with the crossing bell combined together, to make it sound like a real SP train coming down the line.
I am building a Southern Pacific layout in HO scale, and wish I had recordings of both the crossing bell and horns together, because of the old Athearn locomotives I have (rough engines sound like real ones) it would make my layout come to life!
Thanks for the video, but I wish you had some P3 SP Nathan horns, coming and going sounds, without voices, or talking, so I can enjoy just the horns. I could possibly combine your video sounds with my bell, to make it sound like a real train!
Try this.
ruclips.net/video/B6Tg3fQiBys/видео.html
Is it just me, or is the New Cast P3 more aggressive sounding than the Old Cast?
As an engineer on the ATSF Joint Line, Denver to Pueblo, we operated BN engines/trains as well. Th BN horns were horrible sounding, they had an irritating squeak to them. Do you know what type horn this was?
BN was a big user of the Leslie S3K & RS3K, and Prime 990 (A Prime 990 is a copy of the Leslie S3K). I have examples of both in my collection and videos.
@@mafarnz Thanks for your quick reply, you're great. I hated those horns, goofy sound with that ridiculous squeak. I think someone at BN didn't like engineers.
I am having trouble identifying a bolivian locomotive horn, persumably it is a Nathan P3 without the high pitch bell. Maybe you could help me finding out.
Definitely I’ll give it a listen. Do you have a link?
@@mafarnz there you have: ruclips.net/video/G1aIwN9d0GY/видео.html
Brazilian Railfan Here, like every other logistic here, they use Nathan P3 in U20C's and G22/GT22
I believe they are new cast P3's, since they sound really similar
Nice
You Should Also Do A Combination Of The Nathan P2 & P3 Bells If You Have A P2 Horn
I have a train horn video now with P2s in it.
@@larailfan1714 Okay Cool💁🏻♂️
That New cast P3 sounds like BNSF 6899
That's because BNSF 6899 has a new cast P3. Its the same horn.
@@mafarnz Just Like KCS 4199
I was meaning, play two horns at once like a double mount contraption
+NS AGS North RS3L Productions Oh ok. I'm still not going to do that. Getting a double horn set up to work is a pain in the ass, I can't do a runby with it, and a P3 and RS3L wouldn't sound good together it would just be a bunch of noise. The Leslie would probably overpower the P3 anyways.
+mafarnz Where is a good place to buy a P3? I'm in Portland. what's a fair price?
+meanjean73 eBay and horn collector forums. Expect to pay about $450 - $500. Craigslist sometimes has horns but they are often grossly overpriced.
+mafarnz thanks, I'll have to keep my eyes open for one.
My P3, which has the manifold for 3 horns, what railroad used this design and also what year were they made? Also what railroad used the configuration of a all bells forward P3?
The compact or low profile P3 manifold as it has been called was first offered in the mid 1950's shortly after the P3 was first introduced. It didn't really gain wide acceptance until the early to mid 1970's, when Southern Railway decided to use pairs of these P3's, all bells forward, on each end of their GP units that were equipped with dual control stands. Can't say for sure, but ABF low profile P3 is likely ex SOU.
They dont rly sound that different. But the new cast sounds alot better to me
What pressure are you running in this video?
120, locomotives run at 140.
@@mafarnz Im not an expert, but its more about air volume not pressure. I have NC P3s on semi truck with 1/2 hose inlet and even at 40psi its loud, whereas for testing i used 1/4 hose at 120psi and it wasnt too loud. Just my two cents
@@arni291 That is absolutely correct. Volume is far more important than pressure for a locomotive horn. Tank port, fittings, valves and hoses all must be 1/2".
Where do you get parts for these?
I bought both as complete horns.
@@mafarnz I found a set for 400 bucks but needs to be rebuilt and I don't know where to get parts
What do you need, and what is wrong with it? P horns are very simple and easy to work on, and so robust you almost never need replacement parts.
@@mafarnz I think he said all new seels and a good cleaning
Give it a good cleaning, and then put the original parts back in in the correct order. That’s the biggest thing with the P horns, there is a thin gasket and a thick gasket. Thin gasket goes first.
ruclips.net/video/MKeA3wSf-oI/видео.html
Could you do a combination of a P3 and RS3L?
+NS AGS North RS3L Productions What do you mean, mix Leslie and Nathan bells? No I won't do that.
Yeah A P3 & RS3L Would Sound good together! That Means Southern Pacific Vs Conrail!
Sounds like Southern Pacific
SP used the P3 as its standard horn, so yes this IS the sound of SP.
SP standardized it across their system, like he said other railroads used it, but mostly as subsidiaries for the more popular K and RS line of horns.
Some of their older engines used other horns from before they started buying P3s, and I think late in it's life, some of the SD70s and C44-9s received P5 horns, but still, both casts of P3 will always be an iconic symbol of SP.
UP may paint over the locomotives, but when those old P3s squeal to life, that engine becomes SP property until it stops.