Since Marche Slave was one of the first pieces of classical music I remember hearing as a kid, it's always had a warm spot in my heart. Hackneyed it may be, but I vastly prefer it over the 1812 Overture, which I could happily live out my days without hearing again.
Sorry, can't agree on this one! Why should Tchaikovsky works have to be totally OTT if they aren't substantial? Can't there be a middle ground? I don't find the opening tune any more banal than that of the 1812 - both are folk tunes - and Marche Slave is an effective and exciting little potboiler if well played without needing cannons, bells and other extraneous effects. More fun than 99% of other classical music if you're in the right mood for it, so no, I don't find it embarrassing, and also don't feel it's not gaudy or bombastic enough to work! There's actually not much Tchaikovsky where he has a go at a genre and makes a hash of it; his composing intelligence and fine orchestration can salvage unpromising pieces. Some might suggest the sprawling piano sonata or one of the various unsuccessful operas.
I can imagine a percussionist finding the piece a trial - the 2 or 3 dozen cymbal clashes at the end must be really tiring for the poor cymbal-clasher. I remember seeing his look of relief at the end in one concert performance...
I enjoyed the wonderfully contradictory juxtaposition of "it's not what you like...." and the dismissive singing of the maintheme that so clearly demonstrates, that you don't like it! 😂 When you say, that it ain't trashy enough, you must clearly have forgotten Stokowski's wonderful recording of the piece... this interpretation certainly defines the concept 'thrashingly exciting'... and (almost) makes you forget the piece's formally shortcomings, where we fx. are dragged, somewhat anticlimatically, through the same material twice. Stokie throws himself into the piece with absolute and utter abandon...he masterfully builds the tension, even the second time round, where it sounds as if he unleashes a torrent of sound/noise still held in reserve. It's as thrilling as a film by Hitchcock! 🎉 Shameless: yes. Embarrassing: no!
I love all of the works listed in the readers' comments...Marche Slave, Capriccio Italien, the Symphony No. 3, Hamlet, Manfred, the Rococo Variations. even poor Fatum... if I were forced to utter a dissenting word about a Tchaikovsky work, it might be something inconsequential like the Valse-Scherzo for violin and orchestra. But I've loved his music since childhood; it gets better to me with every year I'm privileged to know it.
You goto be kidding me. It's one of his best short orchestral pieces and not banal at all. If you sing it like that, anything can sound trite. It's catchy as hell and gorgeous! Sorry Dave, you completely dropped the ball on this one, in my view.
Mr. Hurwitz, Naxos is selling boxes without booklet in paper (only QR code to download booklet in pdf format) and cds not pressed, 'burned' on cd-r format. They call it "SRM - Short Run Manufacturing". But the prices are still similar. This is a scam. Shame on them.
Marche Slave was my gateway to Tchaikovsky. As part of a Reader's Digest 8-track tape collection. It was with Massimo Freccia & The London Philharmonic Orchestra.
It came coupled with Symphony 5 on my first Tchaikovsky CD I purchased back in the day. I found they coupled well together, probably due to the march theme in the 4th movement of symphony 5.
Quite so, and it gives some fun and doesn't outstay its welcome. I remember hearing Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky performed, also noisy and way OTT but it went on for 45 minutes :(
Embarassing or not, I love the March Slave (or Slavonic March as called in some recordings). I have several versions on cd and found a couple of amazing ones here on RUclips (Dutoit/Montreal. Svetlanov/Russian State)
For me it would be his Symphony No. 3, especially when compared to the rest of his symphonies. It makes me feel embarrassingly unsatisfied due to lack of symphonic coherence.
"...lack of symphonic coherence"?? The symphony is bound together by a four-note motif heard early on in the first movement. It's one of his most tightly-bound-together works...and I adore it.
This video takes me back to the first time, ever, I heard Marche Slave. Sort of... I found that I recognized the main theme, when it arrived, so I must have heard it somewhere, but I was already a fan of the 1812 Overture and my gut feeling was that this piece wasn't on the level of his other works. Years went by, and I saw it included on every album along with 1812, Romeo & etc., causing me to kind of forget that I pretty much liked everything except -- not Marche Slave so much. I was completely expecting you to choose something far less famous, then -- maybe even a song I'd never really heard of, but this was very enjoyable! I honestly thought I was the only person in all of history not to place this up there with everything else he wrote. (Although, it certainly has worked, time and time again, with audiences whenever it is performed.) This video was cathartic.
Seen the video. Marche Slave, ok also a good choice. I particularly dislike the Capriccio Italien, because my father and my oncles loved it, and I had endure countless hours of listening it. But, just musically speaking, the I agree with Mr. Hurwitz about Marche Slave .
I always liked Marche Slav! It makes me want to liberate the Balkans from Turkish domination. But in all honesty, it has to be the Manfred Symphony. What total noise. Does anyone actually enjoy this?
Manfred is average to me but am occassionally in the mood for it despite its apparent dawdling around. I too enjoy Marche Slave but agree there's not much to it. I'm sure there's much Tchaikovsky I haven't heard but agree, if I had to choose one I know Marche Slave seems like a candidate but I struggle in actually identifying it as "embarrassing". My comments probably sound more embarrassing.
I have not listened to Manfred since my LP days - I can't even remember which version I had. I will go look for Dave's recommendation and hear it again.
I can relate to eddihaskell -- I'd heard the Manfred Symphony, who knows how many times (not that many) on LP, alone, then was convinced to purchase the Mariss Jansons/Oslo complete Tchaikovsky box. Hearing it well done (relatively ... see Classics Today reviews for better choices) alerted me to the fact that not only had I forgotten all about the work, I hadn't really considered it to be one of the "symphonies." I immediately fell in love with it. In particular, the kind of fugue in the final movement that reaches a kind of rat-a-tat climactic moment (which Toscanini, in his recording, cuts out entirely!) I found very exciting/thrilling. I probably spent about a year listening to "Manfred" alone, helping it to catch up with my many hearings of it's sibling symphonies. If I'm not mistaken, too, I could swear that there is a Beatles song stolen from the more pastoral movement. In any case, get a good recording and give it another shot would be my recommendation too. I've heard all of Dave's and they all work for me. @@eddihaskell
My problem with Marche Slave is that most conductors never get going in the second half (the part that starts with the solo timpani figure). It's not nearly as bad, nor is it tedious at the proper tempo. The most convincing one I ever heard was a 1940 Columbia 78 with (on the label) Rodzinski and the Cleveland Orchestra. I dont know if it's in the Cleveland/Rodzinski box because it apparently was conducted by the associate conductor Rudolf Ringwall. Whoever it was got it exactly right. Just discovered, it is on RUclips. Check it out. 8:17 which takes about 1-2 minutes off the usual slogthrough.
I agree so whole-heartedly about Marche Slave being an embarrassment! I purchased the Bernstein LP back in the early 60's with the NY Phil, and over the decades, it has failed to impress me more and more. "Banal" is a good choice for it, as you say. And the "chugging" motif toward the end with the whole orchestra playing in unison is simply grotesque!
I would agree with your choice of Marche Slav, Dave. Having read David Brown's four-volume biography of Tchaikovsky, I seem to remember that he often mentions Tchaikovsky's embarrassment at the continuing success, amongst the Russian public, of his early operatic pot-boiler: "Oprichnik", a work which he came to loathe. Personally, I prefer the whole of "Oprichnik" to the much shorter Marche Slave.
Very interesting, like Carl Hass, very informative and fun! Tchaikovsky is my favorite, I love his story , also Copland, what else do you need really, I don’t think you could beat that! Maybe Howard Hansen, three stealth bombers, love em, I just stumbled upon your channel, so I’m a newbie here 👌🏻
Both the "banal" tune at the beginning and the "Tchaikovskian" melody right after it are Serbian folk tunes. The piece is, however, rather embarrassing, insofar as it's basically nationalistic self-congratulation, after Russia assisted Serbia in fighting off Ottoman oppression.
Yes I agree, Marche Slave is one of those "time to read the programme notes" kind of pieces - except it's the other pieces in the programme you're reading about! Parts of it verge on being ungainly and manic, IMHO. Definitely not a fan...
In my opinion the main problem of this piece is that its main theme, the supposed glorious "march" of the Slavic people is... depressing as hell. I've heard a misconception about this pieced that "Marche Slave" is supposed be "march of the slaves", while in reality of course it's supposed to be a march of the Slavs, the Slavic people. This thing however comes not just from the similiarity of the word, but in my opinion also from the music itself. A march tune is typically joyful, glorious, and even if it's not, there is usually some kind of positive energy in it. To make one want to march. Well, this thing certainly does not. Unless it was Tchaikovsky's idea that this is a march for Russians and Russia is usually kind of evil, so he made a march which sounds evil. Sure, that can be done well, just ask John Williams. But I doubt whether this is what Tchaikovskyt had in mind. Now don't take me wrong, I don't hate this work, I actually kind of enjoy it, but considering what I think it was supposed to be, it is somewhat uncomfortable.
I suppose one couldn't entirely rule out the idea of Tchaikovsky looking at the act of a march to war as a fearful and foreboding one. After all, he did have rather harsh critiques of the 1812 for being made to order at the behest of the Tsar. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with the man's patriotic inclinations or lack thereof. Still, the absence of such scorn towards the March may indicate it was truer to his vision.
So it seems your objection to March Slave is akin to the classic joke about the disgruntled diners: "The food was awful!" "And such small portions!" 😀
Yes. Generosity makes up for a lot of defects elsewhere.
Somewhat banal perhaps...but superbly crafted... and it tickles the senses sooooo exquisitely...
I love Marche Slave. Rousing stuff, and one of the first works I heard.
Since Marche Slave was one of the first pieces of classical music I remember hearing as a kid, it's always had a warm spot in my heart. Hackneyed it may be, but I vastly prefer it over the 1812 Overture, which I could happily live out my days without hearing again.
Sorry, can't agree on this one! Why should Tchaikovsky works have to be totally OTT if they aren't substantial? Can't there be a middle ground? I don't find the opening tune any more banal than that of the 1812 - both are folk tunes - and Marche Slave is an effective and exciting little potboiler if well played without needing cannons, bells and other extraneous effects. More fun than 99% of other classical music if you're in the right mood for it, so no, I don't find it embarrassing, and also don't feel it's not gaudy or bombastic enough to work! There's actually not much Tchaikovsky where he has a go at a genre and makes a hash of it; his composing intelligence and fine orchestration can salvage unpromising pieces. Some might suggest the sprawling piano sonata or one of the various unsuccessful operas.
I can imagine a percussionist finding the piece a trial - the 2 or 3 dozen cymbal clashes at the end must be really tiring for the poor cymbal-clasher. I remember seeing his look of relief at the end in one concert performance...
I enjoyed the wonderfully contradictory juxtaposition of "it's not what you like...." and the dismissive singing of the maintheme that so clearly demonstrates, that you don't like it! 😂
When you say, that it ain't trashy enough, you must clearly have forgotten Stokowski's wonderful recording of the piece... this interpretation certainly defines the concept 'thrashingly exciting'... and (almost) makes you forget the piece's formally shortcomings, where we fx. are dragged, somewhat anticlimatically, through the same material twice.
Stokie throws himself into the piece with absolute and utter abandon...he masterfully builds the tension, even the second time round, where it sounds as if he unleashes a torrent of sound/noise still held in reserve. It's as thrilling as a film by Hitchcock! 🎉
Shameless: yes. Embarrassing: no!
I love all of the works listed in the readers' comments...Marche Slave, Capriccio Italien, the Symphony No. 3, Hamlet, Manfred, the Rococo Variations. even poor Fatum... if I were forced to utter a dissenting word about a Tchaikovsky work, it might be something inconsequential like the Valse-Scherzo for violin and orchestra. But I've loved his music since childhood; it gets better to me with every year I'm privileged to know it.
You goto be kidding me. It's one of his best short orchestral pieces and not banal at all. If you sing it like that, anything can sound trite. It's catchy as hell and gorgeous! Sorry Dave, you completely dropped the ball on this one, in my view.
Mr. Hurwitz, Naxos is selling boxes without booklet in paper (only QR code to download booklet in pdf format) and cds not pressed, 'burned' on cd-r format. They call it "SRM - Short Run Manufacturing". But the prices are still similar. This is a scam. Shame on them.
Which boxes do they make/sell this way?
Furtwängler Salzburg Concerts 1949-1954 for example@@jesus-of-cheeses
Marche Slave was my gateway to Tchaikovsky. As part of a Reader's Digest 8-track tape collection. It was with Massimo Freccia & The London Philharmonic Orchestra.
It came coupled with Symphony 5 on my first Tchaikovsky CD I purchased back in the day. I found they coupled well together, probably due to the march theme in the 4th movement of symphony 5.
Sorry David. I have words to it from a camp fight song. My singing has probably killed it for you. Love Mom
Yeah, those subliminal childhood memories will get you every time. Love ya, Mom.
I loved it when I was 4 years old. Haven't heard it in decades...
Yes, Fatum is far worse. Hamlet is pretty bad, too. But March Slave and 1812 for that matter never fail to excite audiences.
Quite so, and it gives some fun and doesn't outstay its welcome. I remember hearing Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky performed, also noisy and way OTT but it went on for 45 minutes :(
Hamlet is an excellent work.
@@iankemp1131 lol who hates Alexander Nevsky? Good lord...
I remember this also being not particularly fun to play.
True enough, Dave, but where would all those Ali Baba movies from the 1940s be without the opening melody of Marche Slave?!?
Love 'em.
Embarassing or not, I love the March Slave (or Slavonic March as called in some recordings). I have several versions on cd and found a couple of amazing ones here on RUclips (Dutoit/Montreal. Svetlanov/Russian State)
For me it would be his Symphony No. 3, especially when compared to the rest of his symphonies. It makes me feel embarrassingly unsatisfied due to lack of symphonic coherence.
Symphony No. 3 was written at the same time as Swan Lake and sounds it. Perhaps that is why I like this symphony.
It's been accurately called a dance suite. That doesn't negate the fact that it has lot of nice tunes. We're not snobs or anything like that, are we?
"...lack of symphonic coherence"?? The symphony is bound together by a four-note motif heard early on in the first movement. It's one of his most tightly-bound-together works...and I adore it.
I could just picture some record exec somewhere, pairing together Marche Slav with the Rococo Variations. Yikes!
To me it's the "Capriccio Italien". It's just cringe all the way to the last chord
This video takes me back to the first time, ever, I heard Marche Slave. Sort of... I found that I recognized the main theme, when it arrived, so I must have heard it somewhere, but I was already a fan of the 1812 Overture and my gut feeling was that this piece wasn't on the level of his other works. Years went by, and I saw it included on every album along with 1812, Romeo & etc., causing me to kind of forget that I pretty much liked everything except -- not Marche Slave so much. I was completely expecting you to choose something far less famous, then -- maybe even a song I'd never really heard of, but this was very enjoyable! I honestly thought I was the only person in all of history not to place this up there with everything else he wrote. (Although, it certainly has worked, time and time again, with audiences whenever it is performed.) This video was cathartic.
I completely approve of your choice. The Slavic march and the Italian capriccio, I am no longer able to listen to that, for 1812 only on occasion..
Caprice Italian is a masterpiece
Seen the video. Marche Slave, ok also a good choice. I particularly dislike the Capriccio Italien, because my father and my oncles loved it, and I had endure countless hours of listening it. But, just musically speaking, the I agree with Mr. Hurwitz about Marche Slave .
I always liked Marche Slav! It makes me want to liberate the Balkans from Turkish domination. But in all honesty, it has to be the Manfred Symphony. What total noise. Does anyone actually enjoy this?
I do. A lot.
I absolutely love the Manfred Symphony -- but you do need to hear a good interpretation.
Manfred is average to me but am occassionally in the mood for it despite its apparent dawdling around. I too enjoy Marche Slave but agree there's not much to it. I'm sure there's much Tchaikovsky I haven't heard but agree, if I had to choose one I know Marche Slave seems like a candidate but I struggle in actually identifying it as "embarrassing". My comments probably sound more embarrassing.
I have not listened to Manfred since my LP days - I can't even remember which version I had. I will go look for Dave's recommendation and hear it again.
I can relate to eddihaskell -- I'd heard the Manfred Symphony, who knows how many times (not that many) on LP, alone, then was convinced to purchase the Mariss Jansons/Oslo complete Tchaikovsky box. Hearing it well done (relatively ... see Classics Today reviews for better choices) alerted me to the fact that not only had I forgotten all about the work, I hadn't really considered it to be one of the "symphonies." I immediately fell in love with it. In particular, the kind of fugue in the final movement that reaches a kind of rat-a-tat climactic moment (which Toscanini, in his recording, cuts out entirely!) I found very exciting/thrilling. I probably spent about a year listening to "Manfred" alone, helping it to catch up with my many hearings of it's sibling symphonies. If I'm not mistaken, too, I could swear that there is a Beatles song stolen from the more pastoral movement. In any case, get a good recording and give it another shot would be my recommendation too. I've heard all of Dave's and they all work for me. @@eddihaskell
My problem with Marche Slave is that most conductors never get going in the second half (the part that starts with the solo timpani figure). It's not nearly as bad, nor is it tedious at the proper tempo. The most convincing one I ever heard was a 1940 Columbia 78 with (on the label) Rodzinski and the Cleveland Orchestra. I dont know if it's in the Cleveland/Rodzinski box because it apparently was conducted by the associate conductor Rudolf Ringwall. Whoever it was got it exactly right.
Just discovered, it is on RUclips. Check it out. 8:17 which takes about 1-2 minutes off the usual slogthrough.
Yes, the Marche Slave can be a lot of fun especially if you're in the right mood for it.
Without seeing the video: Capriccio Italien?
But it's great for what it is. Tchaikovsky's comment on it after completion was right; "I think it has a bright future".
Spot on. Just a touch cringeworthy.
I agree so whole-heartedly about Marche Slave being an embarrassment! I purchased the Bernstein LP back in the early 60's with the NY Phil, and over the decades, it has failed to impress me more and more. "Banal" is a good choice for it, as you say. And the "chugging" motif toward the end with the whole orchestra playing in unison is simply grotesque!
I would agree with your choice of Marche Slav, Dave. Having read David Brown's four-volume biography of Tchaikovsky, I seem to remember that he often mentions Tchaikovsky's embarrassment at the continuing success, amongst the Russian public, of his early operatic pot-boiler: "Oprichnik", a work which he came to loathe. Personally, I prefer the whole of "Oprichnik" to the much shorter Marche Slave.
Very interesting, like Carl Hass, very informative and fun! Tchaikovsky is my favorite, I love his story , also Copland, what else do you need really, I don’t think you could beat that! Maybe Howard Hansen, three stealth bombers, love em, I just stumbled upon your channel, so I’m a newbie here 👌🏻
Cool, thanks!
Good choice. 1812 is a lot of noise and a lot of fun. Marche Slav just doesn't measure up.
Both the "banal" tune at the beginning and the "Tchaikovskian" melody right after it are Serbian folk tunes. The piece is, however, rather embarrassing, insofar as it's basically nationalistic self-congratulation, after Russia assisted Serbia in fighting off Ottoman oppression.
Yes I agree, Marche Slave is one of those "time to read the programme notes" kind of pieces - except it's the other pieces in the programme you're reading about! Parts of it verge on being ungainly and manic, IMHO. Definitely not a fan...
In my opinion the main problem of this piece is that its main theme, the supposed glorious "march" of the Slavic people is... depressing as hell. I've heard a misconception about this pieced that "Marche Slave" is supposed be "march of the slaves", while in reality of course it's supposed to be a march of the Slavs, the Slavic people. This thing however comes not just from the similiarity of the word, but in my opinion also from the music itself. A march tune is typically joyful, glorious, and even if it's not, there is usually some kind of positive energy in it. To make one want to march. Well, this thing certainly does not. Unless it was Tchaikovsky's idea that this is a march for Russians and Russia is usually kind of evil, so he made a march which sounds evil. Sure, that can be done well, just ask John Williams. But I doubt whether this is what Tchaikovskyt had in mind. Now don't take me wrong, I don't hate this work, I actually kind of enjoy it, but considering what I think it was supposed to be, it is somewhat uncomfortable.
I suppose one couldn't entirely rule out the idea of Tchaikovsky looking at the act of a march to war as a fearful and foreboding one. After all, he did have rather harsh critiques of the 1812 for being made to order at the behest of the Tsar. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with the man's patriotic inclinations or lack thereof. Still, the absence of such scorn towards the March may indicate it was truer to his vision.