For anyone trying to replicate the Iron Throne exploit; MAKE SURE TO UNGROUP YOUR PARTY BEFORE JUMPING. Failing to do so will cause them to autopath into the hatch and start the timer. I was able to do it by stacking 3 chests on the hatch and using Nyrulna. No featherfall or enhance jump needed (though if you have low strength you might need enhance jump).
That needs a bit more explanation - or... the tactic does. I didn't bring a 3rd crate on my honour run so I could see that pushing you through the roof and enabling jump - not sure how the trident would help? Or... how the tactic with enhanced jump would work. Tried that (and feather fall but no path available)
This might just be something wrong with my game, but the iron throne glitch didn't work for me because Omelum's cutscene triggers which forces the countdown even if you jump out of the sub.
To be fair with that Saravovk backup. In my evil dark urge run where I became an unholy assassin, he told me to come back and talk to him after I killed Orin, and when I did he attacked me so he could be the uncontested chosen of Bhaal.
Yeah I think many people will find 1 of the 2 backups, but the odds of finding a 2nd one is kind of rare. As if you kill the entire orin temple you see 0. It's not very logical to kill half of the temple, and leave the other one alive.
@@ProxyGateTactician I decided to be blessed by bhaal only after killing Orin, did a good guy durge up until that, and a fight with Minsc and Jaheira and harpers took place on the bridge to the temple of Bhaal after that. I think the first failsafe charachter died there, since I had the blue haired person at the final act giving me the buff. So maybe only one of the failsafe bhaal cultists at the temple joins that fight and can die while other stays behind? Didn't pay attention to her position during that.
@@formatomi that's the most grating part. That kind of journalism really pisses me off, just give me the link and I'll watch it myself how do they make 400 words out of it with 4 ads, and 6 hyperlinks to tenuously related articles
8:17 There's a similar situation where the narrator summarizes what was said if you're a Bard and visit the Chromatic Scale shop in Baldur's Gate. If you select the Bard option while talking with the shop keeper, the narrator will describe you losing track of time discussing music with him.
i love that one! all my party members disapproved too, which was a hilarious touch. not sure if every companion is coded to disapprove here, but i hope they are
@tinycatfriend I was playing multiplayer so the only companion in our party at the time was Gale. He didn't disapprove. I guess it's possible that he excused it because I'm romancing him, but I also feel like Gale would understand regardless.
Oh yeah just had that interaction last night in my honor mode game and nobody disapproved (I had Minthara, Astarion, and Gale with me). Thomas C. Quirkilious is a real happy fellow though absolutely love the guy!
One strange thing they missed. In the dream of Cazador you have playing an Astarion origin game, you can actually open the trade option. He has no goods to buy, but he does have gold. If you sell him stuff, that stuff isn’t in your inventory when you wake up. You also still have the gold you made from selling that stuff.
I like how the footage from this video is with the characters from previous challenge runs. It was fun being able to go "oh wait I recognise the mutton chops of that halfling, or the unfortunate hairline of the gith". Also entirely unrelated but your videos got me to try DOS2 and now im 80 hours into it lol
It's a great game, glad someone found it because of my content! I always wondered if people recognize these guys lol. I just had all these saves at various points of the game so I'd rather use them for footage. My files are a complete dumpster fire to look through.
The first one makes a lot of sense as a not terribly unlikely scenario when you consider the game's co-op mode. It is absolutely very likely that someone would board the boat and go on without the rest of the party, and then get themselves killed. Of course another, more boring, way to fix it would be to teleport everyone to the boat so it's still nice to see that they did this.
I love these videos. Yesterday I followed Valeria out of Sharess and... took care of her there. When the sanctum opened and I was given a chance to become an Unholy Assassin, her lifeless body was chained to the platform. When I talked to Sarevok he congratulated me and told me to hop into the blood bath to finish the ritual. I expected to meet a new celestial NPC.
Instead you discovered the true limit of Murder Hobo in that quest line as Larion realizes that murder hoboing isn't satisfying if every NPC just gets replaced lol so sometimes they just don't
Most games don't give the player nearly as much agency and ability to have an impact on how things go. But even when they do, it's very rare that there's this amount of attention to detail. They really did everything they could to make whatever decisions the player makes to actually feel like they were the right choice. It almost never tells the player no.
and even when it does tell the player no, it's usually in a funny way! like the prism bouncing back into your hands, or getting yelled at for dropping the netherstones at the morphic pool. these don't feel like impediments, just the devs going "ok but we need that actually"
@@tinycatfriend Dropping a netherstone in the iron throne has a funny failsafe where the emperor helps you track it to a fish that washed up on the shore, and then says something like "Do you have any idea how lucky you are?"
@@tinycatfriend Yep it feels like DM going, I want to give you as much freedom as possible, but this would literally destroy the plot with no way to adjust, Nope not throwing it away.
About Obelia's dialog: I remember seeing in the game files for "Act3i" (the Iron Throne) something about lockpicking the entrance. So it wasn't supposed to be a continuous fight at some moment.
I always wondered why it's like that in the first place. There's even an alternate dialogue if you travel there while gortash has travelled to the morphic pool that plays out, where his followers will talk to you instead of him on that intercom like normal.
There's a lot of dialogue in the game that shouldn't be reachable, but is due to exploits. You can tell Isobel that you killed the Nightsong, despite Last Light falling if you do so (but you can skip that with the silence spell). And Wyll and Karlach have unique dialogue if you talk to her after raiding the grove with Wyll in your party, at which point he should already have left (but he can be kept through killing him and then petting Scratch before reviving him after the goblin party).
@@ProxyGateTactician It really was a labour of love, they thought of almost everything. Just finished watching SlimX's latest and between you two it's awe inspiring at the level of details Larien put into all their games but also disheartening when you see the slop that gets put out today by other studios.
Oh wow, I actually got Unholy Assassin Mitchia as my final ally in my embrace!Dark Urge game without actively trying and didn't realise she was a backup of a backup at all! Larian truly are amazing.
I find it odd that if Seravok dies, the NPC to provide aid isnt your butler. I mean, i guess he isnt the best help physically, but at least then you would (if thre previous three died) know Baahls got your back
Larian: "We made a whole NPC you only encounter if you murder six fan-favourite characters in a row, just in case our players decided they wanted to do that." BioWare: "We removed worldstates because writing codex entries and alternate dialogue is too much work for too little payoff."
Bethesda: We'll just make that NPC unkillable or lock that item into your inventory without even attempting to develop a narrative basis for doing so, because heaven forbid there be consequences for player actions. You WILL experience the entire single story we have written, no matter how hard you try otherwise.
I've actually encountered Trinoda in every single one of my playthrougs because if Roah survives act 1 and 2 but you kill her in the Minsc figth (which I always do) Trinoda automatically appears at the guild hall later and the zent leader never shows up
Amazing that they put this much effort in, although I can’t blame them for letting some slip through the cracks. Like in the Tavern in Act 2, I rolled some really difficult skill checks to lie about having the Artifact, and yet the woman ends up talking about it anyway once you progress in the quest :(
@@ProxyGateTactician question: can you free omeleuum before the fight starts? i know the gondians bug out, but does he? having him with me would be awesome
The Sarevok one (atleast the first guy) should be quite common, since Sarevok tells you to come back to him after killing Orin. And when you come back, he wants to fight you.
I find it funny that there are so many failsafes, yet the game has the opposite problem all the time where characters you never met in previous acts talk to to you like you've known them for life. My first playthrough I never met Mol or Alfira or Voss in their intended locations, yet in later acts they spoke to me like we had met.
Well Mol has the other kids who tell her about you. If you saved any kids then she is told by them about you. Mirkon is even seen in this video telling the kids about you saving them so it’s not something u need to even guess that happens. I’d assume they told alfira too. Plus if they’re alive for later acts it means you had saved them from the goblins and usually have a party where all of those people are invited although it is possible to skip that party
@ProxyGateTactician My point isn't that the characters shouldn't be around in later acts,it's more so that they probably should have a line or two introducing themselves to us if we haven't met before. It's a little jarring to have a character talk as though I know them, and it definitely confused me a little my first time around. Mol and Alfira spoke to me with extreme familiarity, and when Voss appeared at camp after I slaughtered the creche having never met him, it would probably be good to clarify who you are! But yes, I definitely met the conditions for them to be around.
@@ProxyGateTacticianOk, Mr. Fanboy. The dialogue is really poorly written in BG3 and scripting is abysmal, with hundreds of bugs. You praise these fail-safes like such things haven't been in RPG games for the last two decades. The reality is that there are quite a few immersion-breaking situations like OP describes and your attempt at an excuse doesn't cut it. None of the characters act like someone told them or they overheard it. No, they act like certain dialogues and cutscenes, which didn't occur, happened.
@@aryman6589I had a problem with Mol too. I don’t want to pay her to get my items back when her kids stole them, so she got angry with me and sicced the guards at the Emerald Grove on me. But when I ran into her again in Act 2 she vouched for me and was super happy to see me. Weird
There is another point in which the narrator will take over and tell you what to do next. In the cursed lands of you walk with karniss and then turn on him with the Harper's and in the fight all but the long haired archer dies. (I am not sure exactly which NPCs need to die for this this is just how it happened for me) The narrator takes over much in the same way as for the gondians
That'd be a dream come true. An NPC in a Larian game where it's just an NPC who asks stupid questions. Can a Cat beat X? Is Y a myth? Where is the hidden Z. A man can dream.
I actually found another scenario of the narrator taking over in my honour mode playthrough-if you go with karniss to moonrise but then choose to side with the Harpers at the ambush, the narrator will take over for all of the Harpers if the one with the moon lantern dies!
Wow, I had no idea Mitchia was a backup of a backup! She's the ally I got in the upper city when I tried out the Sins of the Father Ending. I'd used a save where I already killed Sarevok (and Rycke, I suppose)
I really would have loved, if Larian had chosen to use Biff the Understudy, at least on time, if you accidently killed a key character (in BG 1Biff stepped in in sequences, when you accidently (or on purpose) killed an NPC before the sequence started. And in BG2 he was a member of a theatre posse).
I only learned about the iron throne beach because for some reason when I was playing through it with a friend for the first time, my Tav wasn't able to get back to the sub in time but she woke up on the beach at critical health with the various dead bodies with us so confused where she was and why she was still alive.
CORRECTION: Trinoda is not a second backup. In my playthrough, I never saw Boss Friol, and Roah was there with the fight with Minsc. I had even knocked her out because I didn't want to kill her, and even after a long rest, when going down to the guild where this fight was happening, Trinoda was there. So clearly there's something a bit more nuanced going on.
Its notable that the gondian failsafe is in act 3 where theres a lot of half-finished content. They probably intended for there to be a way to access the iron throne without being in combat while working for gortash (thus obelia's line about ignoring Gortash) but scrapped it before they finished since the section was probably taking too much development time.
With the Sarevok one, he tells you to return to him after you slay Orin if you become an unholy assassin as Durge. Then he tries to kill you so he can become Chosen. So I imagine it's actually more common than some of the other scenarios here.
OH LMAO Mitchia is a backup?? She showed up in the finale on my siding-with-bhaal playthrough and I just assumed the temple had sent their very best blue haired messenger. I remember killing Sarevok, he started it. I don't remember killing the other guy, but thats how it goes for a murder hobo ig
Thanks! I'm on my second playthrough now, and I've found a lot of different branches. Next time I'm definitely going to jump to the Iron Throne though. Cool.
Larian seems to me like a company that excels at worker synergy. That's the only way I can explain that they would follow tiny strains of logic to their end. Larger devs and publishers seem to accelerate the production by delegating using a "patchwork" production, and then finding strains of narrative logic to flimsily tie the independently created elements together to form an apparent whole.
When I was in charge of handing out character paths on a project, I made everyone submit TWO of them: the usual one if their character was chosen as main, but also another version if they _aren't,_ so everyone else can consistently account for what this character would be doing if left to their own devices.
There's also the one where the dm appears in-game as a judge and you have to convince them you're not up to anything fishy if you've been trying to break a certain combat encounter early in act 1. Many rolls were failed trying to persuade my way out of that one.
Great video! I ran into another narrator takeover. In my honor mode run, I entered the Shadowlands via the mountain route and walked down the path with Kar'niss. When we got to the Harper ambush, I switched sides and helped the Harpers, but I guess enough of the Harpers died during the fight that after it was over, a random Harper ran up to me, and the narrator told me how to get to Last Light Inn. They really thought of everything in this game.
Another narrator failsafe: if you fight Karniss and take the Harper's side in chapter 2 and your only surviving member is a hireling the narrator will take over. I imagine there are others if a hireling is the only survivor but I haven't tested it.
5:40 She doesn't decide to join with the guard. The elder brain has managed to muster enough free will to control her directly and rebel against orin's assassins.
Also my favorite back up is that absolute insane number of tieflings intended to fill in for a dead zevlor, added almost entirely because EA players kept coming up with increasingly convoluted means of killing him.
I actually ran into Mitchia during my latest "Burn it all" Durge run, strange because I've never even knew about Rycke's existence. I've only killed Orin and booked it immediately to Sarevok (only to find out he'll betray you anyway. Stupid old man, you asked me to come over after killing Orin, I expected tea)
I have to assume the interaction with Obelia Toobin when you jump out of bounds is left over from an older version of the Iron Throne that might have existed. Judging by the dialogue, maybe Gortash would have asked you to destroy the Iron Throne or something?
In regards to the narrator taking over and describing what a character is saying, another instance of it can be triggered if you side with the Harpers against the caravan in act 2 and the main Harper guy ends up dying
That first one I got with some friends. One of our group gets easily distracted and wasn't with the party when we boarded the boat. After we lost, we had a rematch on the shore.
4:10 'nerd face' if you side with said disgruntled duegar, then side with nere against them he awards you a tadpole after they are defeated. before leaving (maybe just before long resting) if you then fight nere you get his. 2 for 1 baybeee -nere's allies are unusually ok with hostile actions towards them while facing the duegar... not hard to thin them down to just nere during the fight. -gnomes are fine... assuming you didn't harm them in battle/literally tell nere to kill them (they may not be fine after that)
I actually killed both Zhenterrim leaders in my first playthrough by chance, so I didn't even realize that was a rare interaction or that there were backups set up.
Even when I try to do everything through multiple playthroughs I always find something new. Videos like this show just how much work Larian did and why it's the best game ever.
@@RobinDragonryder lol okay. To be fair they've made like 10 articles about my vids by this point so I wouldn't have been surprised. They even basically re-posted one of mine to Tik-Tok after editing my video's footage....
This is very interesting. I got one of my characters shoved to death during that boat fight, and with no corpse I assumed they (and more importantly their gear) were gone forever, and I rage quit and restarted. Next time I fuck something up totally, I will just roll with it, and see where it goes.
Ran into three of these in my last playthrough. It was my first time refusing to save scum to save NPCs, but also a year since my last playthrough. I didn't notice any but the Mother Brain guard one. That character wasn't focussed on in the fight yet randomly moved the story along. It felt off.
I swear to god, everytime I see a dwarf, gnome, halfling Dark Urge, it's always make me laugh because it's so goofy. Bhaal was like "I'm gonna make the deadliest killer ever and it's gonna be a dwarf" lol
Oh the Zhent one is interesting bc I dont think I've never not killed those characters so I didn't even know they were supposed come back in the new locations
If you kill shadowheart with laezel in the mindflayer ship then dont pick the artifact up. Then head to the goblin camp shadowheart cant show up with the artifact and laezel is trapped still. So no one shows up to save you and you just pass out and wake up in camp alone with the artifact suddenly in your inventory
withers reviving players is simply a backup-backup. I'm sure the thought process was for players to always be able to revive their party members and not _have_ to rely on withers. This would also be why party members falling into chasms allows their spirit to float back up to be revived. I guess they could have done that for that Ebonlake fight too, but I suppose they already had a system in place to have the bodies wash up to avoid players being unnecessarily careful with the enemy bodies during the fight, so they just used that instead - and it's cool.
Meanwhile on my first playthrough my game got bugged bc I killed Kagha before killing the entire Goblin camp and rescuing Halsin. He sent me to the shadow realms and told me he'd meet me later. He never met me later. He was considered dead for the rest of the game! And the best part... Minthara had memories of raiding the grove with me, when in reality we never even talked before act 3! All I did was kill the goblins and knock out Minthara.
This is interesting because, for me, Manip failed a check and died trying to deliver "her" lines But since she started speaking for about 0.02 seconds before dying, no other NPC showed up to speak So I had no clue what happened and had to look it up online
I regularly encounter the third backup Zhent 😅. I for some reason got the blue haired Bhaalist in spite of only killing Orin inside the temple (I killed Sarevok because I wanted to know how he'd react if you side with Bhaal and then go bother him again... immediately hostile). The beach in Act 3 was an accidental discovery due to Shart having the Blood of Lathander equipped. And now I need to go loot the corpses on the beach in the Underdark because I've never ventured back there once I get to Grymforge. Just a lot of visits to the Miconid Colony to buy stuff from Derryth.
Oh, I got this forced fight with Trenoda in guild hideout in my playthrough. I didn't understood wtf is going on and why I'm forced to fight without a choice here. So I just randomly killed two important zentarim members, now it make sense My playthrough was so broken, because I mostly didn't load saves after messing up, I missed many important encounters because of this and still completed the game pretty without an issues, that's cool. The more I learn about thin game - more I understand how unusual and stupid my playthrough was
There is an alternate reality somewhere where Larian has picked up the Mass Effect franchise from BioWare. I don’t even care if it would be turn based 😢
I got Kirgrath in my first playthrough because the other guy died, I had no idea that Kirgrath shows up out of nowhere and just assumed he was a character I glossed over lol
I started my 3d playthrough not that long ago and by some weird chance of events my Gale's icon picture on the side of the screen shows him naked instead of fully dressed up. Not that I'm complaining ahah
I encountered the Zhentarim backup, but I think it was because I managed to kill the other Zhentarim before they managed to escape in the fight with Minsc.
Meanwhile I'm going: "There's a doppelganger that gives you instructions for the Unholy Assassin quests?!" I somehow missed that guy both runs, even my Durge one. I think I just found that quest via the murder investigation.
Have you ever considered doing a challenge run where you kill every living thing in the game? There would probably be dozens of failsafes you'd discover!
They probaly just made an mission and got any guy questioning what ifs like an kid wanting to win against you in a game of scissors so they just realized the situations that can happen to come up with those
Trinoda is a general backup for that Zhent fight. If you leave Roah alive until the fight with Minsc, then kill her during, Trinoda will show up at the Guild hideout all the same.
11:22 You actually don’t have to be a murder hobo to get assassin Rycke to trigger. If you are durge siding with Bhaal, Sarevok will encourage you to come back to him after you visit Orin but just tried to kill you instead lol
11:22 never knew he was supposed to show up there. My first time playing dark urge, I went to talk to him after I killed Orin because he had asked me to and he tried to kill me to become Bhaal's chosen. After this, whenever I play dark urge I just kill him out of spite.
I've only done embrace durge once, and of course I killed him because I wanted to see what happened/didn't know he could show up at the end. I did spare him with one of my resist durges because there's so little info about when he shows up, but he was't there obviously. He does write a pretty interesting letter to you in the epilogue though.
@ProxyGateTactician: I cannot get the iron throne jump to work, was it patched in a recent update? Or does the crate have to be in a very specific spot? Again, amazing video and thank you for all the work you put in them!
For anyone trying to replicate the Iron Throne exploit; MAKE SURE TO UNGROUP YOUR PARTY BEFORE JUMPING. Failing to do so will cause them to autopath into the hatch and start the timer. I was able to do it by stacking 3 chests on the hatch and using Nyrulna. No featherfall or enhance jump needed (though if you have low strength you might need enhance jump).
That needs a bit more explanation - or... the tactic does. I didn't bring a 3rd crate on my honour run so I could see that pushing you through the roof and enabling jump - not sure how the trident would help? Or... how the tactic with enhanced jump would work. Tried that (and feather fall but no path available)
This might just be something wrong with my game, but the iron throne glitch didn't work for me because Omelum's cutscene triggers which forces the countdown even if you jump out of the sub.
@@asyme9717 The trident gives extra jump distance (3m iirc) and immunity to fall damage
@@JPKloess same, did you manage to find a way around that?
@@zotegaming5041 No. Although if I play the game again I might try not interacting with Omelum (in Act 1) to see if that makes a difference.
To be fair with that Saravovk backup. In my evil dark urge run where I became an unholy assassin, he told me to come back and talk to him after I killed Orin, and when I did he attacked me so he could be the uncontested chosen of Bhaal.
Yeah I think many people will find 1 of the 2 backups, but the odds of finding a 2nd one is kind of rare. As if you kill the entire orin temple you see 0. It's not very logical to kill half of the temple, and leave the other one alive.
@@ProxyGateTactician I decided to be blessed by bhaal only after killing Orin, did a good guy durge up until that, and a fight with Minsc and Jaheira and harpers took place on the bridge to the temple of Bhaal after that. I think the first failsafe charachter died there, since I had the blue haired person at the final act giving me the buff. So maybe only one of the failsafe bhaal cultists at the temple joins that fight and can die while other stays behind? Didn't pay attention to her position during that.
Ah yes, the video of Proxy Gate covering weird failsafes he's run over while trying to break the game over and over. Very good.
Yeah pretty much a tuesday
And gets picked up by a lazy game journo a week later :’)
@@formatomi A week? I'd assume they have the AIs primed to make a video summarising whatever he releases within the hour.
I wanted to give a like to this comment but I have seen 666 likes already and decided against it for numerological reasons.
@@formatomi that's the most grating part. That kind of journalism really pisses me off, just give me the link and I'll watch it myself how do they make 400 words out of it with 4 ads, and 6 hyperlinks to tenuously related articles
8:17 There's a similar situation where the narrator summarizes what was said if you're a Bard and visit the Chromatic Scale shop in Baldur's Gate. If you select the Bard option while talking with the shop keeper, the narrator will describe you losing track of time discussing music with him.
Didn't know about that one! Thanks for sharing
i love that one! all my party members disapproved too, which was a hilarious touch. not sure if every companion is coded to disapprove here, but i hope they are
@tinycatfriend I was playing multiplayer so the only companion in our party at the time was Gale. He didn't disapprove. I guess it's possible that he excused it because I'm romancing him, but I also feel like Gale would understand regardless.
@@Arby117 hah! yeah, him being cool with it makes total sense either way
Oh yeah just had that interaction last night in my honor mode game and nobody disapproved (I had Minthara, Astarion, and Gale with me). Thomas C. Quirkilious is a real happy fellow though absolutely love the guy!
One strange thing they missed. In the dream of Cazador you have playing an Astarion origin game, you can actually open the trade option. He has no goods to buy, but he does have gold. If you sell him stuff, that stuff isn’t in your inventory when you wake up. You also still have the gold you made from selling that stuff.
I like how the footage from this video is with the characters from previous challenge runs. It was fun being able to go "oh wait I recognise the mutton chops of that halfling, or the unfortunate hairline of the gith". Also entirely unrelated but your videos got me to try DOS2 and now im 80 hours into it lol
It's a great game, glad someone found it because of my content! I always wondered if people recognize these guys lol. I just had all these saves at various points of the game so I'd rather use them for footage. My files are a complete dumpster fire to look through.
Bhaal: "Yeah, murder is good!"
Also Bhaal: "Stop murdering my followers! No buff for you!"
The first one makes a lot of sense as a not terribly unlikely scenario when you consider the game's co-op mode. It is absolutely very likely that someone would board the boat and go on without the rest of the party, and then get themselves killed. Of course another, more boring, way to fix it would be to teleport everyone to the boat so it's still nice to see that they did this.
I love these videos.
Yesterday I followed Valeria out of Sharess and... took care of her there. When the sanctum opened and I was given a chance to become an Unholy Assassin, her lifeless body was chained to the platform. When I talked to Sarevok he congratulated me and told me to hop into the blood bath to finish the ritual.
I expected to meet a new celestial NPC.
Instead you discovered the true limit of Murder Hobo in that quest line as Larion realizes that murder hoboing isn't satisfying if every NPC just gets replaced lol so sometimes they just don't
Most games don't give the player nearly as much agency and ability to have an impact on how things go. But even when they do, it's very rare that there's this amount of attention to detail. They really did everything they could to make whatever decisions the player makes to actually feel like they were the right choice. It almost never tells the player no.
and even when it does tell the player no, it's usually in a funny way! like the prism bouncing back into your hands, or getting yelled at for dropping the netherstones at the morphic pool. these don't feel like impediments, just the devs going "ok but we need that actually"
@@tinycatfriend Dropping a netherstone in the iron throne has a funny failsafe where the emperor helps you track it to a fish that washed up on the shore, and then says something like "Do you have any idea how lucky you are?"
@@tinycatfriend Yep it feels like DM going, I want to give you as much freedom as possible, but this would literally destroy the plot with no way to adjust, Nope not throwing it away.
Most RPGs do. Particularly CRPGs.
About Obelia's dialog: I remember seeing in the game files for "Act3i" (the Iron Throne) something about lockpicking the entrance. So it wasn't supposed to be a continuous fight at some moment.
I always wondered why it's like that in the first place. There's even an alternate dialogue if you travel there while gortash has travelled to the morphic pool that plays out, where his followers will talk to you instead of him on that intercom like normal.
@@ProxyGateTactician Yeah, I like those metalcore vibes. "The Iron Throne must be destroyed!🤘"
There's a lot of dialogue in the game that shouldn't be reachable, but is due to exploits. You can tell Isobel that you killed the Nightsong, despite Last Light falling if you do so (but you can skip that with the silence spell). And Wyll and Karlach have unique dialogue if you talk to her after raiding the grove with Wyll in your party, at which point he should already have left (but he can be kept through killing him and then petting Scratch before reviving him after the goblin party).
Oh you mean the 5 hidden backups BG3 Devs had to make because of you? Absolute mad lad breaking the game in every conceivable way!
Everytime I try to break it and find that they had accounted for it I'm more and more impressed by them. A lot of love went into this game
@@ProxyGateTactician It really was a labour of love, they thought of almost everything. Just finished watching SlimX's latest and between you two it's awe inspiring at the level of details Larien put into all their games but also disheartening when you see the slop that gets put out today by other studios.
12:30 that fish has some moves. Even did a frontflip.
Oh wow, I actually got Unholy Assassin Mitchia as my final ally in my embrace!Dark Urge game without actively trying and didn't realise she was a backup of a backup at all! Larian truly are amazing.
I find it odd that if Seravok dies, the NPC to provide aid isnt your butler. I mean, i guess he isnt the best help physically, but at least then you would (if thre previous three died) know Baahls got your back
Why would the back up for Bhaal's boon not be Sceleritas? You literally can't kill him permanently, he in fact wishes you would kill him more.
Larian: "We made a whole NPC you only encounter if you murder six fan-favourite characters in a row, just in case our players decided they wanted to do that."
BioWare: "We removed worldstates because writing codex entries and alternate dialogue is too much work for too little payoff."
"Gender stuff." Oh man, when i saw it online, i knew that bioware was affected by sweet baby inc (cancer of gaming industry) .
Bethesda: We'll just make that NPC unkillable or lock that item into your inventory without even attempting to develop a narrative basis for doing so, because heaven forbid there be consequences for player actions. You WILL experience the entire single story we have written, no matter how hard you try otherwise.
I've actually encountered Trinoda in every single one of my playthrougs because if Roah survives act 1 and 2 but you kill her in the Minsc figth (which I always do) Trinoda automatically appears at the guild hall later and the zent leader never shows up
Me too. I’ve always met Trinoda and she locked me into battle immediately. I never encountered Roah‘s other backup character.
Amazing that they put this much effort in, although I can’t blame them for letting some slip through the cracks. Like in the Tavern in Act 2, I rolled some really difficult skill checks to lie about having the Artifact, and yet the woman ends up talking about it anyway once you progress in the quest :(
That Iron Throne exploit will be fun to do, proper "calculated" run of the place
I spent about an hour searching the place, and trying to cast speak with dead on every single corpse in there. Nothing super interesting though
Yea gonna have to do that in my current run
@@ProxyGateTactician question: can you free omeleuum before the fight starts? i know the gondians bug out, but does he? having him with me would be awesome
@ he also bugged out when I tried to
@@ProxyGateTactician damn!
The level of patience it must’ve taken to assemble this video is astounding. I salute you, sir!
The Sarevok one (atleast the first guy) should be quite common, since Sarevok tells you to come back to him after killing Orin. And when you come back, he wants to fight you.
True one of the 2 is probably common, but I doubt many people would see the other one unless it's by mistake
just more proof larian put so much love and passion into the game. best game devs ever
I find it funny that there are so many failsafes, yet the game has the opposite problem all the time where characters you never met in previous acts talk to to you like you've known them for life. My first playthrough I never met Mol or Alfira or Voss in their intended locations, yet in later acts they spoke to me like we had met.
Well Mol has the other kids who tell her about you. If you saved any kids then she is told by them about you. Mirkon is even seen in this video telling the kids about you saving them so it’s not something u need to even guess that happens. I’d assume they told alfira too. Plus if they’re alive for later acts it means you had saved them from the goblins and usually have a party where all of those people are invited although it is possible to skip that party
@ProxyGateTactician My point isn't that the characters shouldn't be around in later acts,it's more so that they probably should have a line or two introducing themselves to us if we haven't met before. It's a little jarring to have a character talk as though I know them, and it definitely confused me a little my first time around. Mol and Alfira spoke to me with extreme familiarity, and when Voss appeared at camp after I slaughtered the creche having never met him, it would probably be good to clarify who you are! But yes, I definitely met the conditions for them to be around.
@@ProxyGateTacticianOk, Mr. Fanboy.
The dialogue is really poorly written in BG3 and scripting is abysmal, with hundreds of bugs.
You praise these fail-safes like such things haven't been in RPG games for the last two decades.
The reality is that there are quite a few immersion-breaking situations like OP describes and your attempt at an excuse doesn't cut it. None of the characters act like someone told them or they overheard it. No, they act like certain dialogues and cutscenes, which didn't occur, happened.
@@aryman6589I had a problem with Mol too. I don’t want to pay her to get my items back when her kids stole them, so she got angry with me and sicced the guards at the Emerald Grove on me. But when I ran into her again in Act 2 she vouched for me and was super happy to see me. Weird
@@sujimayne Fanboy vs doomer
There is another point in which the narrator will take over and tell you what to do next. In the cursed lands of you walk with karniss and then turn on him with the Harper's and in the fight all but the long haired archer dies. (I am not sure exactly which NPCs need to die for this this is just how it happened for me) The narrator takes over much in the same way as for the gondians
Ohh good one. I don't think I've seen that one as I either saved them all or killed them all each time
Honestly, I end up being that less than 1% quite often, so I'm thankful for this level of detail in the game.
Proxy has played this game so much, Larian probably got him confused with a permanent NPC in game
That'd be a dream come true. An NPC in a Larian game where it's just an NPC who asks stupid questions. Can a Cat beat X? Is Y a myth? Where is the hidden Z. A man can dream.
I actually found another scenario of the narrator taking over in my honour mode playthrough-if you go with karniss to moonrise but then choose to side with the Harpers at the ambush, the narrator will take over for all of the Harpers if the one with the moon lantern dies!
Wow, I had no idea Mitchia was a backup of a backup! She's the ally I got in the upper city when I tried out the Sins of the Father Ending. I'd used a save where I already killed Sarevok (and Rycke, I suppose)
I really would have loved, if Larian had chosen to use Biff the Understudy, at least on time, if you accidently killed a key character (in BG 1Biff stepped in in sequences, when you accidently (or on purpose) killed an NPC before the sequence started. And in BG2 he was a member of a theatre posse).
I only learned about the iron throne beach because for some reason when I was playing through it with a friend for the first time, my Tav wasn't able to get back to the sub in time but she woke up on the beach at critical health with the various dead bodies with us so confused where she was and why she was still alive.
If she was alive she had The Blood of Lathander equipped most likely
Did you have death ward, survival instinct, or the blood of Lathander mace on that character maybe?
Your videos always give me TheEpicNate’s old Skyrim fact video vibes. Takes me back to better times.
Awesome sounding video! I'm quite early in so want to avoid spoilers
But look forward to catching this again.
CORRECTION:
Trinoda is not a second backup. In my playthrough, I never saw Boss Friol, and Roah was there with the fight with Minsc. I had even knocked her out because I didn't want to kill her, and even after a long rest, when going down to the guild where this fight was happening, Trinoda was there. So clearly there's something a bit more nuanced going on.
Its notable that the gondian failsafe is in act 3 where theres a lot of half-finished content.
They probably intended for there to be a way to access the iron throne without being in combat while working for gortash (thus obelia's line about ignoring Gortash) but scrapped it before they finished since the section was probably taking too much development time.
8:11 Although not as overt in stating what is said, the narrator voices all the crime-related dialogues.
With the Sarevok one, he tells you to return to him after you slay Orin if you become an unholy assassin as Durge. Then he tries to kill you so he can become Chosen. So I imagine it's actually more common than some of the other scenarios here.
true, but he does have 2 backups, and if you killed all of Orins temple you'll see neither. Most people dont just kill half of the temple
OH LMAO Mitchia is a backup?? She showed up in the finale on my siding-with-bhaal playthrough and I just assumed the temple had sent their very best blue haired messenger. I remember killing Sarevok, he started it. I don't remember killing the other guy, but thats how it goes for a murder hobo ig
Thanks! I'm on my second playthrough now, and I've found a lot of different branches. Next time I'm definitely going to jump to the Iron Throne though. Cool.
Excellent work (both to Larian and Proxy)!
Larian seems to me like a company that excels at worker synergy. That's the only way I can explain that they would follow tiny strains of logic to their end. Larger devs and publishers seem to accelerate the production by delegating using a "patchwork" production, and then finding strains of narrative logic to flimsily tie the independently created elements together to form an apparent whole.
When I was in charge of handing out character paths on a project, I made everyone submit TWO of them: the usual one if their character was chosen as main, but also another version if they _aren't,_ so everyone else can consistently account for what this character would be doing if left to their own devices.
There's also the one where the dm appears in-game as a judge and you have to convince them you're not up to anything fishy if you've been trying to break a certain combat encounter early in act 1. Many rolls were failed trying to persuade my way out of that one.
Great video! I ran into another narrator takeover. In my honor mode run, I entered the Shadowlands via the mountain route and walked down the path with Kar'niss. When we got to the Harper ambush, I switched sides and helped the Harpers, but I guess enough of the Harpers died during the fight that after it was over, a random Harper ran up to me, and the narrator told me how to get to Last Light Inn. They really thought of everything in this game.
Another narrator failsafe: if you fight Karniss and take the Harper's side in chapter 2 and your only surviving member is a hireling the narrator will take over. I imagine there are others if a hireling is the only survivor but I haven't tested it.
When I first played, both the bard and the little tiefling had died. Had no idea there was more to that hideout the children were in
5:40 She doesn't decide to join with the guard. The elder brain has managed to muster enough free will to control her directly and rebel against orin's assassins.
Notification Squad reporting for duty! Thanks as always for your videos, Proxy ❤
Also my favorite back up is that absolute insane number of tieflings intended to fill in for a dead zevlor, added almost entirely because EA players kept coming up with increasingly convoluted means of killing him.
I actually ran into Mitchia during my latest "Burn it all" Durge run, strange because I've never even knew about Rycke's existence. I've only killed Orin and booked it immediately to Sarevok (only to find out he'll betray you anyway. Stupid old man, you asked me to come over after killing Orin, I expected tea)
I have to assume the interaction with Obelia Toobin when you jump out of bounds is left over from an older version of the Iron Throne that might have existed. Judging by the dialogue, maybe Gortash would have asked you to destroy the Iron Throne or something?
That would have been a really cool idea actually. Was really surprised she said anything at all when I got in there like that
Both Sarevok and Mitchia were in my pre-final fight room.
In regards to the narrator taking over and describing what a character is saying, another instance of it can be triggered if you side with the Harpers against the caravan in act 2 and the main Harper guy ends up dying
That first one I got with some friends. One of our group gets easily distracted and wasn't with the party when we boarded the boat. After we lost, we had a rematch on the shore.
4:10 'nerd face'
if you side with said disgruntled duegar, then side with nere against them he awards you a tadpole after they are defeated. before leaving (maybe just before long resting) if you then fight nere you get his. 2 for 1 baybeee
-nere's allies are unusually ok with hostile actions towards them while facing the duegar... not hard to thin them down to just nere during the fight.
-gnomes are fine... assuming you didn't harm them in battle/literally tell nere to kill them (they may not be fine after that)
Didn’t know most of these but the only truly surprising one is Rycke because I’ve killed Sarevok several times and only ever seen Mitchia
I actually killed both Zhenterrim leaders in my first playthrough by chance, so I didn't even realize that was a rare interaction or that there were backups set up.
Even when I try to do everything through multiple playthroughs I always find something new. Videos like this show just how much work Larian did and why it's the best game ever.
How was there a pcgamer article about this less than 5 mins after it was posted??? Regardless, badass!!
lol no ur joking....... right?
Bro what??
Apparently it was an old article that happened to pop up.on my feed just as you uploaded this lmao
@@RobinDragonryder lol okay. To be fair they've made like 10 articles about my vids by this point so I wouldn't have been surprised. They even basically re-posted one of mine to Tik-Tok after editing my video's footage....
@@ProxyGateTactician I love gaming journalism....
This is very interesting. I got one of my characters shoved to death during that boat fight, and with no corpse I assumed they (and more importantly their gear) were gone forever, and I rage quit and restarted. Next time I fuck something up totally, I will just roll with it, and see where it goes.
Ran into three of these in my last playthrough. It was my first time refusing to save scum to save NPCs, but also a year since my last playthrough. I didn't notice any but the Mother Brain guard one. That character wasn't focussed on in the fight yet randomly moved the story along. It felt off.
It's cool that Cerys arrives to replace Zevlor but even when he doesn't doesn't die, she shows up in act 2.
I swear to god, everytime I see a dwarf, gnome, halfling Dark Urge, it's always make me laugh because it's so goofy. Bhaal was like "I'm gonna make the deadliest killer ever and it's gonna be a dwarf" lol
Oh the Zhent one is interesting bc I dont think I've never not killed those characters so I didn't even know they were supposed come back in the new locations
And then, there's the netherstone fish.
I really needed this man thank you
If you kill shadowheart with laezel in the mindflayer ship then dont pick the artifact up. Then head to the goblin camp shadowheart cant show up with the artifact and laezel is trapped still. So no one shows up to save you and you just pass out and wake up in camp alone with the artifact suddenly in your inventory
withers reviving players is simply a backup-backup. I'm sure the thought process was for players to always be able to revive their party members and not _have_ to rely on withers. This would also be why party members falling into chasms allows their spirit to float back up to be revived. I guess they could have done that for that Ebonlake fight too, but I suppose they already had a system in place to have the bodies wash up to avoid players being unnecessarily careful with the enemy bodies during the fight, so they just used that instead - and it's cool.
EA withers couldn’t revive people is why that was made. It was the only backup at that time
@@ProxyGateTactician Ah, I didn't know about that, that makes sense. Though that backs up saying that withers revives are backup backup.
0:22 it's funny because it just happened to me 😂
2:46
Is this Nappa?!?
God Bless you ALL!
Meanwhile on my first playthrough my game got bugged bc I killed Kagha before killing the entire Goblin camp and rescuing Halsin. He sent me to the shadow realms and told me he'd meet me later. He never met me later. He was considered dead for the rest of the game!
And the best part... Minthara had memories of raiding the grove with me, when in reality we never even talked before act 3! All I did was kill the goblins and knock out Minthara.
This is interesting because, for me, Manip failed a check and died trying to deliver "her" lines
But since she started speaking for about 0.02 seconds before dying, no other NPC showed up to speak
So I had no clue what happened and had to look it up online
I regularly encounter the third backup Zhent 😅. I for some reason got the blue haired Bhaalist in spite of only killing Orin inside the temple (I killed Sarevok because I wanted to know how he'd react if you side with Bhaal and then go bother him again... immediately hostile).
The beach in Act 3 was an accidental discovery due to Shart having the Blood of Lathander equipped.
And now I need to go loot the corpses on the beach in the Underdark because I've never ventured back there once I get to Grymforge. Just a lot of visits to the Miconid Colony to buy stuff from Derryth.
2:51 Never knew this harpy encounter existed.
I'm going to have to try out the Iron Throne trick next time I get there, so I can loot everything down the one hallway without the timer.
A year later and we still finding out new stuff. BG3 definitely set a standard in feature rich gaming!
I've saved Obelia on all my runs but didn't know she was supposed to talk to me. I've only talked to duke Ravengard on that trip
Oh, I got this forced fight with Trenoda in guild hideout in my playthrough. I didn't understood wtf is going on and why I'm forced to fight without a choice here. So I just randomly killed two important zentarim members, now it make sense
My playthrough was so broken, because I mostly didn't load saves after messing up, I missed many important encounters because of this and still completed the game pretty without an issues, that's cool. The more I learn about thin game - more I understand how unusual and stupid my playthrough was
We've come a long way since Biff the Understudy.
nothing like a proxy gate breaks baldur's gate 3 video
I think at this stage, BG3 is like breathing for you.
There is an alternate reality somewhere where Larian has picked up the Mass Effect franchise from BioWare. I don’t even care if it would be turn based 😢
I got Kirgrath in my first playthrough because the other guy died, I had no idea that Kirgrath shows up out of nowhere and just assumed he was a character I glossed over lol
"Manip" isn't a name.
It's Flaming Fist Roman for 'Sarge'
Ohh I had no idea. I saw today another character with Manip and thought that’s weird. This makes more sense
I started my 3d playthrough not that long ago and by some weird chance of events my Gale's icon picture on the side of the screen shows him naked instead of fully dressed up. Not that I'm complaining ahah
I encountered the Zhentarim backup, but I think it was because I managed to kill the other Zhentarim before they managed to escape in the fight with Minsc.
Meanwhile I'm going: "There's a doppelganger that gives you instructions for the Unholy Assassin quests?!"
I somehow missed that guy both runs, even my Durge one. I think I just found that quest via the murder investigation.
Yeah if you kill one of the victims from the list he shows up to tell you about the quest
I feel like I've killed Roah Moonglow in almost every single playthrough, but her exact same model keeps popping up in act 3 no matter what.
aw yeah it’s proxy time
Have you ever considered doing a challenge run where you kill every living thing in the game? There would probably be dozens of failsafes you'd discover!
Someone else has already done it and I try to do things others haven’t done
@ProxyGateTactician Do you know who has? I'd like to see if I can replicate their results.
@@elisitchin3279 I believe Dumpykong did it in a 3 part series. Not sure if he got 100% of the NPC's but he did try
They probaly just made an mission and got any guy questioning what ifs like an kid wanting to win against you in a game of scissors so they just realized the situations that can happen to come up with those
Trinoda is a general backup for that Zhent fight. If you leave Roah alive until the fight with Minsc, then kill her during, Trinoda will show up at the Guild hideout all the same.
I haven't tried it yet, but I've heard if you drop one of the Netherstones in the Iron Throne, some Sahuagin will have them.
11:22 You actually don’t have to be a murder hobo to get assassin Rycke to trigger. If you are durge siding with Bhaal, Sarevok will encourage you to come back to him after you visit Orin but just tried to kill you instead lol
Wait now I'm curious how a run with only meeting failsafe npcs would look like
This video has made me aware of Mirkon's existence for the first time after countless of hours
And this is why Baldur's Gate 3 won Game of the Year
11:22 never knew he was supposed to show up there. My first time playing dark urge, I went to talk to him after I killed Orin because he had asked me to and he tried to kill me to become Bhaal's chosen. After this, whenever I play dark urge I just kill him out of spite.
I've only done embrace durge once, and of course I killed him because I wanted to see what happened/didn't know he could show up at the end. I did spare him with one of my resist durges because there's so little info about when he shows up, but he was't there obviously. He does write a pretty interesting letter to you in the epilogue though.
7:53 omg it's Schmaradin!
8:10 Any time you are witnessed committing a crime and accosted by a guard, Narrator speaks for them.
The best backup is one that doesn’t exist until they’re required
@ProxyGateTactician: I cannot get the iron throne jump to work, was it patched in a recent update? Or does the crate have to be in a very specific spot?
Again, amazing video and thank you for all the work you put in them!
It still works. It shouldn’t be specific, but if you have more crates stacked it is easier to execute. If you have 1 you just spam Jump
Awesome, stacking three crates did the trick. Thanks a lot for your reply! :)