AE Basics #1: Balanced vs. Unbalanced Cables
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- VIDEO MISTAKE: The term "out of phase" is used and this implies a signal that has been phase shifted. It should be "inverted", as this implies flipping the signal upside down.
In this video, Jim explains the basics about balanced cables. He answers the questions: "why do we use them?", "what are the benefits?" and "how does it work?"
I hope you enjoy this tutorial. Please share it if you find it useful! Thanks, Jim.
This explanation is wrong and repeats a common misunderstanding. Balanced operation does not require an inverted signal, a differential input will cancel common mode interference whatever the outputs. The correct definition of balanced is balanced impedances, not complimentary voltages, i.e. the impedances of the output and the input amplifiers form a Wheatstone bridge in balance. Complimentary voltages only serve to reduce EM fields from the cable interfering with others, e.g. in a multicore cable, but are rarely necessary.
Thanks very much. I've pinned your comment so it clarifies it for people. 👍
@@PrincipalAudioKudos to you. Sign of self-confidence!
This is probably one of the best "practical understanding" videos on this subject.
Thanks so much for the kind words. :)
man you explained something i never understood all these years: how balanced cables and equipment actually function electronically. thank you! i had to rewind a few times but it's now clear to me how it works!
I'm glad it helped. Thanks for watching. :)
The ONLY video that really helped to understand balanced vs unbalanced cables. THANK YOU!
Thanks! Glad it helped. :)
Thumbed up for the very clear explanation and the obvious natural talent at drawing sinusoidal on a white sheet of paper.
When that hum kicked in at 0:36 I thought one of the cables in my home studio came loose... damn you 😂
Haha. I actually did make a cable come loose to record the sound! :)
I am no tech head, but that explanation was as clear as a bell. Very nice!!
Thanks! :)
Very well presented.i like how he explained it in detailed.thank you
was having difficulties with this subject but i completely understand it after watching your video hoped you continue sir
Thanks for the compliment!
I do plan on making more videos in the future, but I still need to invest in some proper video editing and animation software that actually works and isn't too expensive. Got plenty of ideas, though, so once I have some spare time on my hands I'll get on with some of them.
Thanks, I was looking into this as I'm getting a stack of xrl cables to get for the drum mics, and decided now to get balanced.
You're welcome. Glad it helped. Thanks for watching! :)
Unbalanced starts in the brain of an audiophool who ignores electronics / physics facts. This video was rather good, factual and no snake oil.
Thanks for the kind comment!
In this video I use the term "out-of-phase" often. Sound Engineers use this term to mean that signals are "inverted" compared to one another - it is quite common to do so since there is a "Phase" switch on most mixers to invert the input signal.
When Electronic Engineers use the term "out-of-phase", it implies that there is a time-delay associated with a specific frequency. Time is a factor in this, and thus when a signal is inverted there is actually no phase shift whatsoever. The terminology is different depending on which profession uses it.
Just wanted to clarify this point as there has been some criticism, for very good reason. I should have used the term "inverted" instead of "out-of-phase", but I can't change it without putting annotations, which RUclips no longer supports on mobile devices. I could re-upload the video but that would wipe the video ID, which wipes the potential viewing audience associated with the algorithms that promote videos, as well as viewer comments.
Anyway, thanks for reading and I hope you got something useful from the video. The reason I made this video was to try to give a visual representation of how balanced cables actually work. Apologies for the wording error, but thanks for watching anyway. :)
No worries at least I am able to think in both linguistic modalities. :)
The important point - why balanced got a *much* better signal to noise ratio (S/N) should be clear and obvious for anyone.
And this is the main reason it sound better with stereo equipment that come with balanced / XLR connectors.
There will be a 'deep silence' instead of a faint but persistent noise in the background on quiet passages in the music.
That's the main part, there's is a second also. The music do sound a bit more detailed also. Why?
I think it's because the music playing thingies have the electronic gear for each channel completely separated when it is balanced.
This could be within the same box, or if you got lots of moneis - with monobloc units. (Some manufacturers use hybrid solutions even when they got balanced/XLR contacts, where there might be some crossover.)
If the audio gear also rectifier tubes, it will be even better. But don't listen to me too much on tubes, I'm a fanbuoy on those, solid state parts with the same function should be able to do that job equally well.
So "180 degrees" is incorrect since it implies a phase shift?
Yes, 180° would mean phase shift and "inverted" would mean flipped upside down. However, Sound Engineers use the term "out-of-phase" to describe an inverted signal. Some pieces of equipment even have a "180°" button, even though technically it's inaccurate. It just stuck, and now Electronics Engineers get annoyed when Sound Engineers use the term inaccurately. 😏
Good instructional; love the finish.
Thank you for making this understandable to a complete newbie like myself. Excellent tutorial.
Thanks for watching. Glad you found it easy to comprehend. :)
Great video; explained the concept perfectly. Many thanks!
Thanks for watching. :)
Wow! Great lesson! Thank you, kind sir.
3 dislikes got the middle 1KHz sine wave finger.
I liked this it made some good sense with a video than reading about it in manuals. So long cables act like an ant, yes, yes makes copper wire sense. I got thinking how can I get a cheap way of getting the signal to the amp at a cheap ebay rate cost that doesn't bust the budget. Fiber optics and a converter at the far end connected to the amp speaker.
Well, I used to relax playing electric guitar and all my life I wondered what XLR connectors do. now i know, thanks a lot Principal Audio.
Thanks for watching. Glad the video helped. :)
Thank you so much for the information. I’m less confused now than before. Again, thank you.
🇬🇧 Hi from UK 🇬🇧 👍💚💙👍
Brilliantly explained, mate.....!!!! 👨🎓👍🙂
Thank you..... 😉
Thanks. :)
Thank you very much! That was the best video on that topic!
Thanks! :)
Thank you. You explained so well in different ways!
You're welcome. I glad the video helped. 😊
Thanks for sharing a valuable information.
I switched to balanced connections in the late 90’s…so much more dynamics and low level detail!
Oh don't start all that nonsense. You probably bought a Monster mains cable made from rare metal from space and said it made everything sound good, or a piece of granite to sit a turntable on to reduce cosmic rays, or maybe the April Fools joke of drawing around the edge of a CD with a marker pen - a special expensive one sold in HiFi Magazines.
All nonsense.
Very clear and well explained. Thank you !
Thanks, and thanks for watching. 🙂
very well done!
So . .. it would seem then that balanced systems that use balanced cabling require additional equipment on either end.
You can't plug in a balanced cable from a balanced source into an unbalanced receiver
(without some sort of adapter that completes the signal processing.)
Thanks!
Yeah, there are issues with connecting balanced-only equipment to unbalanced-only equipment. It's possible if a cable is soldered up, but balanced level (or "Pro level") equipment generally has a higher signal voltage than unbalanced equipment - this can cause distortion. Most equipment nowadays has both balanced and unbalanced, so it's not really a big issue nowadays!
DI (Direct Inject) boxes are usually used to make signals compatible between different equipment and signal levels. i.e. A guitar (unbalanced) with very low signal level and high output impedance being buffered and amplified for input to unbalanced/balanced line input on a mixer.
Thank you very much, it's very explanatory and informative! The only thing I think you should have done is to show some kind of interference to the signal on the oscilloscope, and the way it shows up in counter phase on the hot and the cold legs.
From Russia with respect
Спасибо! That's a very good idea actually. I should have probably thought a bit more before making the video. Hindsight ideas are always the best ideas. :)
Great explanation, thank you very much.
You're welcome. Thanks for the comment. 😊
such a simple yet smart solution
Yeah, I wouldn't have thought of it myself, even if I was tasked with the job of reducing noise in long audio lines.
Some amazing engineers out there.
Very good explanation. thank
+Mike Delaitre
Thanks!
Fantastic explanation.
Thanks :)
Great explanation!
Thanks! :)
Thanks! Now it all makes perfect sense!
Thanks for watching. Glad it helped. :)
Love it! Hey - based on your written explanation at the end, how exactly does the original "cold" wave become inverted? Essentially, they are simply two copper wires so what device actually flips the "cold" wave 180 degrees? Is it the amp/mixer? or the transducer in the microphone? or something in the design? How is the original "cold" wave made? thanks
Hi Rob. Thanks for the comment!
>>_"how exactly does the original "cold" wave become inverted?"_
There are some microchips out there called "Single-Ended to Differential Conversion Amplifiers". They're designed to take the unbalanced signal inside the piece of equipment and output two separate signals, one of which is inverted in phase.
The receiving equipment has a differential input amplifier that has two inputs and one output. Same deal, but the opposite way around.
Some equipment can make use of a transformer to output or receive differential signals, but these introduce noise and distortion of their own, so most modern equipment uses specially designed low-noise chips and op-amps for this purpose. some older microphones use a transformer; this can produce a differential signal but is mainly used for matching the impedance as well as boosting the signal level.
Last time I checked 180° delay and inverting is NOT the same. This is only true for periodic signals. Audio signals are not usually periodic (unless you like to listen to a non changing sine wave)
Anyways this rejects common mode noise introduced by stray capacitance towards ground I guess? How do you reject differential mode noise?
Good video. How do you invert the signal, then change it back? I guess I'm trying to ask what equipment is used to do that? Thanks.
Hi there. 'Op Amps' are usually used to invert signals. They have two inputs (+ and - // non-inverting and inverting). Depending on which input you use, it'll either output the signal non-inverted or inverted.
Woooww, awesome explanation.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for watching. 😊
Brilliant, thanks for this
Excellent video. Thanks
Thanks for watching. :)
Very good explanation
Thanks! :)
Great explanation
Great video .
Thanks. :) 👍
Helpful. Thanks!
Thanks for watching. :)
Well explained 👍🏻
Thanks for watching. 👍
thanks for your clear explanation
No problem. It was my pleasure. Thanks for the comment :)
Thanks man, this is the solution to my Problem
Awesome! Glad the video could help. Thanks for watching. :)
Thank you for this!
Thanks for the video. Very well presented. I'm just trying to learn the wiring as I got a soldering iron for Xmas and I have an old computer speaker I want to try to wire. Is my guitar phase shifter effectively doing what you are demonstrating with the oscilloscope? Anyway, this is very helpful to my rudimentary understanding so I am going to thumbs up and subscribe to help your channel! Thanks again!
Hi there. Thanks for watching and thanks for the sub! :) Really appreciate it.
In terms of a guitar phase shifter, what they do is mixing the original signal with a copy of the signal, but they delay the copy slightly and modulate the time delay up and down. This causes addition and subtraction of the waveform at different frequencies, making an effect called "comb filtering". Because the time delay is being modulated up and down, the comb filtering nulls move up and down the audio spectrum, giving the classic phaser sound.
When you do this with a single frequency (sine wave), it'll just go up and down in volume as it's either adding to itself or cancelling itself out based upon how shifted in time it is. If you think about different frequencies being different wavelengths, you can see how some will cancel out before others with a specific time delay. Lower frequencies (longer wavelengths) will need more time delay before they are shifted enough to cancel themselves out. Higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths) will cancel out with just a short time delay.
Hope this helps a little to understand phasers. It's a little different than what I talk about with balanced cables, as it's just using an "inverted" copy of the signal on the cold wire, not phase shifting it. The term "phase shift" is really a frequency specific term, but sound engineers use the term "phase flip" or "inverting the phase" to mean flipping the audio waveform upside down. It is a little confusing as it's technically not the correct term to use, but we do anyway!
@@PrincipalAudio Thanks for the detailed and thorough explanation! This is very interesting! Thanks again!
You're welcome. :)
I loved the video!
Thanks for watching :)
Wow. Thanks to this video I finally understand how Balance Cable works. I'm in a Networking Program. Lol
Thanks for watching! Glad I could help you understand it. :)
You killed it.
Thanks! 😊
With regard to audio equipment. With radiated emissions, can't you shield the conductors in the unbalanced system to prevent any noise on the line? With conducted emissions since it's coupled directly onto the conductor, I suppose that's a trickier problem to address
You can but it's not perfect. The best method (so far as I know) is to have the wires coaxial - the ground surrounds the signal wire, like with TV antenna cables. This provides shielding to the inner wire but only to a certain extent. The longer the cable, the more susceptible to EMI it will be.
Great explination
Amazing video for an explanation.
One question... I always see audiophiles on you tube look at the end of a headphone plug and say "these are... balanced" .. ? How do you tell by just looking at the male end plugs?
Thanks very much!
Ok, so unbalanced headphones have two signals and one current return (TRS). Balanced can have either 4 for basic functionality or 5 for extra shielding of the signal cables (TRRRS):
Tip: Left +
Ring: Left -
Ring: Right +
Ring: Right -
Sleeve: Ground (for shielding the other 4).
Unbalanced would be:
Tip: Left
Ring: Right
Sleeve: Ground (acting as current return).
With the balanced ones, the currents go back and forth between the + and - wires of each channel. The ground simply acts as an RFI shield, not a current return.
@@PrincipalAudio
Thank you. could not find this explanation anywhere else. So that's what's meant when you need to look for 3 black rings? or no
For balanced, look for either 3 or 4 black rings (which is 4 or 5 electrical contacts).
Normal unbalanced are two black rings (3 electrical contacts).
If you buy balanced headphones, you'll need a balanced amp for them, but I'm sure you already know this. :)
Obviously been a while since you posted this. But this is the sort of educational medium (with audio and visual) that really makes a difference - in that it is much more informative.
Thanks. I thought about producing more like it, but it takes so long to make them. I guess most RUclipsrs who do similar types of videos can dedicate all their time to them.
Hi people...a question..do using balanced cables kills bass?? I purchased a fiio 2.5 balanced cable for my shure se 535 and now they have less bass than before. Connected to a fiio M11and fiio x5iii players. Is this normal? Thanks very much.
beautiful explanation
Thanks very much :)
how do you get 2!!! signals from electric guitar from which 1 is inverted in relation to another?
For electric guitars, you could theoretically use either side of the pickup as the hot(+) and cold(-) signals and have a separate shield/ground. Dynamic microphones use this technique to send balanced signals - with one side of the microphone coil sent to + and the other side sent to -.
Hope this explains. Cheers.
Is there a current in the ground conductor for coaxial cables?
On coaxial cables for TV you mean? I'm not quite sure but I believe it is used as a ground reference and so shouldn't have current flowing through it.
As far as I'm aware on balanced cables, the ground isn't meant to have any current flow either and is used as an additional RFI shield for the hot/cold signal wires. It's meant to be as dead as a dodo. It is usually connected to "chassis ground" which is often connected to "circuit ground" to act as a ground reference. But the ground conductor isn't meant to have current flowing through it, only the hot/cold signal wires.
Maybe a silly question but, does have to be the shielding connected to the ground or is it good when it's just there?
If you think about a capacitor, it is made of two metal plates separated by an insulator. Any voltage change on one plate will cause a voltage change on the other. It's similar with a shield and signal wires. The shield acts as one plate and the signal wires act as another. Voltage changes on the shield can affect voltage changes in the signal wires.
If a shield *is not* connected to ground, then voltage changes can be induced on it from external EM fields. This, in turn, causes voltage changes in the signal wires, which "capacitively couple" to the shield.
If the shield *is* connected to ground, then voltages don't have a chance to build up in the shield because it allows current to flow directly to ground. It likes to stay at zero volts, so changes in voltage cannot occur very easily in the shield and therefore cannot be transferred to the signal wires.
Hope this helps! :)
Yes it helped, but since my system is very unbalanced and i can't connect the shielding on one site signal ground nor chassis ground, i think i will just leave it there, and don't bother to connect it at all. Thanks!
So... Any chance of getting this done on budget at home? Couldn't I just get a 2 line cable, regular positive and ground, wraping aluminium foil around them and connecting the foil to ground? Or maybe with a resistor to ground?
I suppose you could make your own cable out of, say, cheap telephone wire, but it's not going to have the same RF rejection qualities as audio cable. Twisting a pair of wires helps to reject RF interference. This technique of using "Unshielded Twisted Pairs" is used in network cables to make them cheaper, rather than having tonnes of expensive RFI shielding around them.
@@PrincipalAudio So I could basically get a shielded CAT-x network cable instead of some expensive balanced cable and solder XLR plug to it? I would also need some equipment for it, right? Could that be just done with some basic OP-amp?
Alright, I found this, seems like it might work fine www.jeffgeerling.com/articles/audio-video/xlr-mic-level-balanced-audio-over-cat5e
Now just to get the equipment
I have been stumbling from on video to another which supoosedly explain this topic and I have never found one so extremely well explained and simplified! Thanks! Hopefully you will be making some more interesting topics. For example how to balance the volumen/level of the sound comming out from a Synthesizer into speakers/monitors with the volumen/level of the output of these monitors.
Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad the explanation helped. :)
Does the balanced input have twice the gain? Would the signal be twice as loud as the same input from unbalanced?
The gain really depends on the output and input circuits. It's impossible to directly compare balanced with unbalanced in the way of how much gain there is, since you can set up the circuits whichever way you want. But...
+4dBu (Decibels "unterminated") is a standard used for balanced outputs/inputs which specifies the level of a signal in both balanced or unbalanced cables for professional gear. Both +4dBu unbalanced and balanced should exhibit the same loudness since they're using the same spec, but balanced will obviously have the benefit of noise rejection from external sources.
How can you be sure, that the inverted signal is an exact and only inverted copy of the original signal?
The inverted signal won't be an 'exact' mirror of the original but it's close enough. It all depends on the differential op-amp used. Some have very tight tolerances so you know the inverted signal will be within
Hi..!! Very informative video. Can you please give us your knowledge about the "Directional cables"? I know for sure they are in use in instruments cables (TS/TS) and in Hi Fi applications. How do they operate? . There is a debate about them.
Thank you.
In terms of "directional" audiophile cables, it's total nonsense. Electricity runs the same no matter which way it travels down a length of wire. This is the same for any cable, no matter what it is.
The only "directional" cables I've seen that do make a difference are those with complex plugs on either end that are configured a specific way. As an example, if you need pin 6 (output) to go to pin 17 (input), you have to have the cable the correct way round, otherwise pin 6 may be connected to another input instead. But this has nothing to do with sounding better, but more to do with connecting the correct output to the correct input.
Some cable manufacturers print a direction arrow on the cable, but it's just to convince people they are directional (and sound better when connected in one direction). There's no testing done whatsoever - they just print an arrow and sell the cable with a higher price.
@@PrincipalAudio Thank you very much for your response.
That was my thought also in terms of physics and common sense.
You make it clear.
Thank you.
When it comes to high grade Audio device, with great grade of audio hed phones. Witch one is the best approach? My device have both options (DAC Audio Player). I have always use balance all my life... I have ever used unbalanced. I use .flac audio track & 320kbph. Thanks
Balanced audio doesn't really convey much more audio "quality" than unbalanced - it's more noise rejection. But since it uses a higher voltage and minimises unwanted noises, I'd say go balanced if you can afford it with your equipment.
I recently had to use unbalanced cables to connect some gear and the noise was really noticeable. It had hum, buzzes, etc. Once you use balanced cables to connect analog gear together, you never go back. :)
@@PrincipalAudio Thank you very much for taking your time!
As I am still learning I'm hoping someone can answer this question for me; I have a home theater pre amp and an amp I'm looking to connect to one another. I wish to use balanced XLR cables. Does it matter what the gauge of the wire is? The reason I ask is because my knowledge of speaker wire is for lack of a better term; thicker the better. I'm using 12 gauge speaker wire, would it matter if the XLR balanced cables were only 16 gauge or should I track down some XLR cables that are 12 gauge or does this principle not apply to balanced XLR cables? Thank you
Hi Matty,
If the XLR cables are only connecting the preamp to the amp, then pretty much all balanced cable will do to job. You won't be able to notice any difference in audio quality. Audio signals are usually low voltage and low current so there's no real need for thicker cables. If both pieces of equipment support balanced output and input via XLR sockets, then go ahead and use whichever cable you want.
For connecting to speakers (which are low impedance), thicker speaker cables are usually better as there's less resistance. This is especially necessary if you're running a high power setup. You don't want your cables acting as a resistor, dissipating heat, and lowering the effective output power to your speakers.
Principal Audio That was a great response thank you so much. You articulated it perfectly and was exactly what I wanted out of a response. You just earned a new subscriber, thank you sir.
hi,..just wondering would it be relevant if the cable is 3.5mm jack at one end to XLR...will it still benefit anything?
Not really, as 3.5mm jacks aren't really designed for balanced signals. If you purposefully designed a piece of gear to use 3.5mm jacks with hot/cold/ground, then yes it would work, but usually most gear that uses 3.5mm jacks are consumer level and use unbalanced signalling.
@@PrincipalAudio tqvm..
No probs. :)
Why don't all speakers and amps use XLR or TRS connections rather than plain speaker cable?
I run XLR connections directly from my controller to my monitors and it's a fantastic sound, very clean and uncoloured.
Probably to save cost and complexity. I think most studio amps/monitors come with balanced inputs now, though. I used to use unbalanced cables years ago when I had hardware limitations (cheap, unbalanced mixer), and the move to balanced was like night and day in terms of the noise and hum.
I now use a homemade balanced passive volume control inbetween the audio interface and monitors to reduce the amount of electronics in the signal path. Also like night and day!
Nice one thank you. I have a question. Shouldn't the noise be directly in phase, because on the diagram it seems to be following or out of phase. One being at the top and one at the bottom inverting and in phase and then cancelling out. I was waiting to see this on the oscilloscope. Thanks again. Singem.
Hi Singem.
Do you mean the diagram at 02:35? The spike of noise is injected in-phase on both signals and is cancelled out. I had to draw it by mouse so it isn't perfect heh. I should have probably drawn it differently.
I didn't have any noise injected onto the oscilloscope signals since it's an old analog one and can't be 'stopped' to show what's going on. Noise would only show up for a split second and not be visible. I was just showing how signals add together to be silence (when they are in-phase) and add up to twice the signal level (when one is inverted) when using a differential amplifier. External noise would be in-phase on both channels and so would be cancelled out.
Yest at 02:35, but if you take a look at the link below I think it makes it clear what I'm saying. ruclips.net/video/edKmN6gc0QU/видео.html at 5:07. Noise on the peak and noise on the trough. Not peak and peak. I hope this makes clear and saves me drawing using my mouse!!!! Singem.
Ah I see what you're saying, but it doesn't matter whether the noise is on the peak or off it. It can be anywhere in the signal.
The balanced signal can be a complex signal (not a sine wave) and the common mode noise may not be clearly visible, but it'll still get cancelled out as long as it's in-phase on both the hot and cold.
If Hot is at +1 and Cold is at -1 then the output at the differential amp will be +2. If common mode noise perturbs both channels the same, then: Hot may be +1.3 and cold will be -0.7. These still add up to +2 in the output of the differential amp. This is a mathematical way of looking at it.
EDIT: It also works if the signal is at any other point:-
If Hot is at +0.4 and Cold is at -0.4, this adds up to be +0.8 in the differential amp. Insert some very loud common mode noise of +1.5 and you get Hot at +1.9 and cold at Cold at +1.1. This adds up to be +0.8 in the output of the differential amp, as it should be. The noise is cancelled out even though it's louder than the balanced signal.
EDIT 2: I have another video explaining Mid-Side matrixing. Might give an insight into signal mixing: ruclips.net/video/RA1hwMm9Ujo/видео.html
Hope this helps. :)
Hi again.
The main point I'm trying to get across is your noise is not in phase, therefore it will not cancel out, isn't that correct. As you say above: as long as it's in-phase on both the hot and cold!!!! I agree with all the rest. I'll take a look at your link. Thanks again.
The noise spikes are both in-phase (even though the drawing isn't too good). As long as the noise spike is going up and down at the same points in time in both the hot and cold, this is classified as being "in-phase" or "common mode".
Hi
great video explaining the basics. Im starting out wit DIY stuff and your videos are quite inspiring!
Wanted to check how to make a balanced headphone cable having one 2.5mm TRRS male jack at one end connecting to dual/2 3.5mm TRS plugs each plug connecting to Left and Right speakers/ headphone driver. Ive seen schematics that show the 2.5m TRRS plus has L+ (tip), L- (Ring1), R+ (Ring2), R- (Sleeve). Can do the continuity test on the 2.5mm TRRS, but unsure about the grounds and connections to the 3.5mm TRS plugs
Some questions:
1. Im not sure how and where the ground wires get connected on either the 2.5mm TRRS and 3.5 mm TRS jacks?
2. How do i connect the L+ and L- from the 2.5mm TRRS on the 3.5mm TRS on the headphone jacks?
3. If i connect the L+ and L- wires to Tip and Ring on one of the 3.5mm TRS plugs, will it work? Assuming same will work on Right side plug as well?
4. Does it mean neither plugs have a ground connection?
Appreciate your answers!
Thanks!
1. On TRRS, there is no ground connection. On unbalanced TRS jacks, the ground is connected to the Sleeve, Right is connected to the Ring, and Left is connected to the Tip.
2. TRRS = L+/R+/L-/R- || TRS = Left/Right/Ground
3. If you connect the L+ and L- to the Tip and Ring on an unbalanced (TRS) system, all you'll get in the Left headphone is the out-of-phase audio. L+ and L- electrically connect to each side of the headphone coil. So, you'd want:
L+ connected to 'T'
L- connected to 'S'
R+ connected to 'R'
R- connected to 'S'
4. TRRS doesn't have a ground connection, but TRS does (on the Sleeve).
Hope I've answered adequately! :) Let me know if I've confused you in any way haha.
Oh, I think I got the TRRS labels wrong. Apparently there's also:
TRRS = R-/R+/L+/L-
But I have also seen what I mentioned before:
TRRS = L+/R+/L-/R-
I'd check which is correct for your setup.
@@PrincipalAudio Yes same here..Can be both..from what ive also seen!
@@PrincipalAudio Yes. whats really got me confused is how the wires run between a single 2.5mm TRRS male jack to 2 separate 3.5MM TRS plugs (i.e. the headphone males), which is common for a 2.5mm jack to dual 3.5mm plug balanced cables? :) For instance, does the L+ (Tip) and R+ (Ring1) on the 2.5mm connect to Tips of the 3.5mm headphone plugs respectively and the L- (Ring2) and R- (Sleeve) connect to the 'Sleeves' of the 3.5mm headphone plugs respectively?
If thats the case, there is no ground wire running between/connecting the 2.5mm to none of two 3.5mm jacks? Sorry but im a newbie, just trying to fig stuff out!
Thanks for the patience :)
@@dopydude
That's correct. Since each headphone has + and - connected to either side of the headphone driver, both the - need to be grounded to the Sleeve for a current return, and L+/R+ respectively go to Tip and Ring on the TRS.
That is, if you're plugging a balanced headphone system into an unbalanced TRS system. Is that the case?
Can I use balanced cables on a system without nose canceling?
Will balanced cables have less interference or noise on equipment not designed utilize the benefit of balanced cables.
If the equipment is unbalanced, then it won't benefit from using balanced cables. Both the sending and receiving equipment need to have balanced outputs and inputs for it to work.
@@PrincipalAudio thanks YESHUA GOD ALMIGHTY bless you
Thank you
You're welcome. 😊
Omitted from this otherwise good explanation is the importance of ensuring that the impedance of both the non-inverted and inverted legs of a balanced signal are equal. If these impedances are not equal then noise on the cable will not be induced equally and the noise rejection offered by the differential receiver will not work as well. Please note that I am not referring to impedance matching which is making the source and load impedances equal. Instead, balanced lines require that the source impedances of both the legs that must be equal and the load impedances of both legs must be equal. Further, both legs of a balanced line need not be driven by a signal in order to achieve noise rejection. Instead, one leg of the output may simply be connected only through an impedance (usually a resistor) to common as long as that impedance is equal to the source impedance of the output driving the other leg.
Thanks. I was going to make a video about impedance but my knowledge is quite lacking in that respect. Wouldn't want to start explaining a subject that I don't know as much about as other people. Thanks for your comment. Very good info.
That's useful for the manufacturer.
@@Smitty-op4ld If you're referring to not having to drive both legs then, yes, that's useful to manufacturers. It's not free, though, as the signal voltage on that leg must be doubled or the level at the output of the differential receiver will be 6 dB lower than it would if both legs are driven. This often means that higher supply voltages and "beefier" parts must be used.
THEN what about Common mode rejection ratio of this differential amplifier
Yep, that's important. I was just covering the simple side of it for those that don't necessarily need to understand CMRR, impedance, and anything like that.
does it mean that balanced cable always send twice as much signal amplitude as unbalanced?
It depends on the scenario, to be honest. But essentially you are correct.
For a given scenario (two pieces of equipment sending/receiving a signal at +4dBu level): A balanced cable would be sending *twice the voltage*. Doubling the voltage also doubles the current, so the *audio amplitude* would be about 4x what it was (about +12dB). _Ohm's Law has to be taken into consideration._ It's fairly difficult to explain in a single comment, I'm afraid!
Here'sa good Wiki article on Line level signals:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level
Balanced doesnt mean inverted copy or out of phase, Balance is about impedances being equal. The benefit of inversion is improving SNR. You can have mirrored signals but if the impedances are not equal you will pick up interference.
Yes, thanks for making the point. I understand this but I was trying to make a simple video to make it easily digestible for most people. The subject of impedance is highly complex and would require a much longer video to teach.
It's akin to teaching about valence shells in school while people who understand higher physics will understand electron orbitals instead. You understand things in greater detail,so this video is no use.
But thanks for watching anyway, and I'll definitely produce some more advanced videos in future as there seems to be a demand for it. Criticism is always appreciated. 👍
@@PrincipalAudio I see but also consider this is not about advanced or simple. Your explanation of balanced transmission is wrong. You can teach things wrong for the sake of simplicity. Good luck!
Hi, I have heard something about "half-balanced",or so. Would please tell me if it's true and what are they, if they exist?
Thanks!
Hi there. I think you may be referring to _"quasi-balanced"._ This is when the cold is, instead, connected to the ground/shield through an impedance that is the same as the input impedance to the differential amp. This provides the same noise rejection as the balanced setup shown in this video but only the hot carries the signal. It's a bit difficult to explain, sorry!
@@PrincipalAudio
Thanks anyway, since I am a singer I think I read somewhere something about this cable useful for a use with a microphone.👍
Ok, so "out of phase" simply means "inverted", right?
Another question: When not to use balanced cables? What are the advantages of using unbalanced cables?
Yes, sorry for the mistake. While it's quite common for Sound Engineers to use the term "out-of-phase" when referring to audio that's inverted, Electronic Engineers use the term "inverted" because "phase shift" is a whole other ball park.
"When not to use balanced cables" is where signal quality isn't as important. It saves time and money. Balanced signals take more electronics to process so equipment generally costs more.
One example of ubalanced becoming a standard is electric guitars and amps. They don't use balanced cables due to the simpler/cheaper design. Theoretically, they could have designed them to be balanced in the past, but the standard of using unbalanced cables to connect the guitar to the amp stuck.
All clear! Thanks so much.
Phase always has a time element and Inverted polarity does not. Reversing polarity does not change time and therefore does not change phase.
"Out of phase" is used incorrectly and far too commonly as a synonym for "inverted" do they do not mean the same thing. They appear to be the same when considering monotonic sinusoids but the illusion fails when considering other signals. For example, a sawtooth wave shifted half of its wavelenth in time does not equal an inverted sawtooth.
An advantage of using unbalanced connections is that they are cheaper.
Balanced cables are always better than single ended, but for short runs the difference will not be very huge. cable cost will also be higher. But most cheap hifi equipment does not have balanced inputs or outputs.
Hey, I have a question - is TRS to XLR also balanced? (Like TRS to TRS and XLR to XLR are)? Thanks!
Hi Robart. Thanks for the comment. :)
Yes, TRS to XLR and vice versa should be balanced. They will both have one ground and two signal cables (in-phase/inverted):-
*TRS:*
Tip = Hot
Ring = Cold
Sleeve = Ground
*XLR:*
Pin 1 = Ground
Pin 2 = Hot
Pin 3 = Cold
When TRS is used for unbalanced stereo signals (1/4" or 3.5mm jack), it is:
Tip = Left
Ring = Right
Sleeve = Ground
Hope this helps! :)
Principal Audio Thank you very much! So in terms of flexibility, I should get XLR to TRS (having in mind that my mixer has both connections).
P.S. Great video!
Are you using it for a microphone? TRS inputs are generally "Line level" on mixers and XLR are always "Mic level". Best to stick with XLR to XLR or TRS to TRS.
Principal Audio I will use them for connecting dj controller (that has both connections) with studio monitors (that also has both).
My point is when I play in clubs I will have the flexibility of having both connectors for using my cables with their audio system (and not having to use their cheap unbalanced cables).
But now that you're saying that, probably I should stick to XLR - XLR...
Ah I know what you mean now. I used to use XLR to TRS into my studio monitors but recently changed over to XLR to XLR when I built my passive volume control. I suppose it doesn't matter which way you do it.
I tend to prefer XLR if they're available, but always good to have XLR to TRS cables on hand in case you need them for anything. :)
+Principal Audio
Nice vid, but I think I need a Differential Amp to cancel out the noise in the end ... LoL
Now I like to use my oscilloscope and generator what is a long time a go.
Power noise and hum are NOT RF noise. RF noise is reduced by the shield only but the shield does not reduce the low frequency (or AC magnetic field) you need a pair line that is twisted.
I know, they're nearfield EM radiation, inductively coupled onto the audio cables. Didn't want to go into an advanced explanation with this video as it's just to cover the basics.
why unbalanced input device still in use with modern equipment?
For a few different reasons:
1. Standards that were created a long time ago when technology wasn't as developed. They stuck, and now we're stuck with electric guitars that use unbalanced, for instance.
2. Additional cost of making the cables as well as systems capable of using balanced connection. Consumers aren't going to be worrying about maintaining a low noise floor or interference over long cable runs (as with live sound).
3. Compatibility between different pieces of equipment / Generally simpler to implement.
I'd say cost is the highest weighing factor, since consumers don't really need balanced cables with the tech they use. Only high end consumer gear tends to have balanced in/out support where people demand it.
@@PrincipalAudio im amused on cost as the reason as i seen people pay a lot just to get what the manufactures says as high end,stable or hifi and what they really need is actually a balanced input connection.
Thx!
You're welcome! :)
thank you
You're welcome!
The signals are simply opposite polarity. By saying they are "out of phase", you're implying that one signal is delayed, which is not the case.
Yes, I made a few mistakes here and there. I should have said "inverted" instead.
I agree the terminology "180 degrees out of phase" implies an actual time delay in the signal on one of the lines and it is a damn dirty lie that non EEs use to describe something they dont understand. Any audio nerd knows that it you combine two duplicate audio streams that are 180 degrees out of phase you get nothing, not some amazing magic that eliminates noise on transmission lines.
+Bob Boberson
Hi Bob. Thanks for the input. I'll try better with my upcoming videos to be more precise with my explanations. Since it was pointed out, I recognise the error in my explanation. I also understand that most audio nerds will get that cancellation of audio is something that occurs, but they may not comprehend exactly why, which is why I made the video. I thought that a visual representation may be of help to newbies.
I appreciate that you have corrected yourself with regard to phase and polarity but you still don't have it quite right.
A balanced connection's ability to reject common mode signals in no way depends on driving both signal conductors with signals of opposite polarity and equal amplitude. What is required is that the impedance of the conductors and the output circuits that drive them be equal so that induced noise results in equal noise amplitude. The system's Common Mode Rejection Ratio (CMRR) depends only on how accurately those impedances are equal.
It is, therefore, valid to drive only one conductor with a signal. In this case, the undriven conductor may be connected to ground through a resistance equal to the output impedance of the driven conductor's output circuit. Such a system's differential receiver does not output twice the signal amplitude but this can be readily accounted for.
Note, too, that balanced cables' conductors are typically twisted along their length to ensure their constant proximity so that, again, noises are induced in equal amplitude and CMRR is improved.
Here's the problem, connect the balanced output from a professional recorder to the unbalanced input of a consumer preamp, tape recorder, etc, and you will overload the consumer equipment as voltage to the consumer equipment is not matched to sensitivity of the consumer equipment. Best solution, enjoy RCA unbalanced.
If I didn't like the video, then my noise gets rejected.
This explains DIFFERENTIAL or SYMMETRICAL signals, not BALANCED. Balanced is about the same impedance on + and - leads! This is a common misunderstanding.
You're right, but I didn't want to confuse people by getting into impedance. It's a whole other subject that complicates things for people who are just beginners in the audio world (who don't necessarily need to understand impedance straight off the bat). Perhaps I should make a video explaining it in more depth. Thanks for your comment. 👍
So I have researched the shit out of this and still havent found an answer which means Im probably asking the wrong damn question on google but maybe some of you hifi geniuses can help me out here. I have currently 2 sets of headphones with unbalaced cables with 1/4" jacks. I found an adapter on amazon that supposedly will allow me to plug my unbalanced cables into a male 4 pin xlr so I can then use the higher power output provided the balanced section of my questyle cma400i amp/dac. My question is will this actually work and or is it bad for my equipment in any way? I would much prefer this option to spending a bunch of money on some balanced headphone cables. Any help greatly appreciated.
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Hi Daniel.
The only reason you'd ever need balanced headphone output is if you have:
1. A very long headphone cable (a lot more than 10 metres)
2. Surrounded by lots of electrical equipment that can induce currents on the cables
3. A desire to show off ;)
Noise from the surrounding environment only tends to affect unbalanced cables that carry *very low level signals,* in the order of microvolts to millivolts. Headphones are much higher than this and so any RFI noise induced on the cables is literally inaudible compared to even the quietest music you can listen to.
Ask yourself this: _"If I can't hear any RFI noise when the headphones are unplugged, then why would I hear RFI noise when I'm listening to music?"_
The truth is, it's to sell you on something you don't really need. Top studios use unbalanced headphones because, to the human ear, there is literally no audible difference. It's an additional cost for something that's not required.
Also, I'd like to apologise for your 1-week-old comment not being shown on the comments section earlier. RUclips had put it in the "Spam" section and I had to review it as not spam. It didn't notify me until today.
Thank you so much for your reply I really appreciate your answer. The only reason I am considering going balanced is simply because both amps I have put out more power through the balanced jack then the unbalanced one otherwise i dont think I would really care. but again thank you for your reply i have asked this question a lot and you are the only one to have responded. maybe all my stuff is showing up as spam.
+Daniel Moser
Ah, I see. Well, more power is better! :)
My comments (using this channel) also show up as spam on most channels. Probably a broken algorithm. Can only hope RUclips fix it in the future.
And you're welcome. I always try to reply to comments. :) Good luck with the amp!
oooohhhh...
You are aware that this does NOT work with RCA, right?
Yes. One of my most hated cables for many reasons.
That is NOT correct, or you are not explaining it very well. If RF was introduced, you are saying it would end up at twice the level, so be twice as bad on a balanced cable compared to unbalanced.
No system I have seen has powered microphones that produce two outputs out of phase...they are standard mics with a 3 pin plug and only 2 connectors are ever used.
I have spaghetti wires behind my entertainment center and I've never once heard any hum... And yes, my amp and speakers are high quality enough that if there was actually a hum passed through normally shielded cables, I would have heard it.... It simply doesn't exist... Yet another reason for the audio industry to manufacture a phony problem in order to sell their 'solution'.
It depends on the impedance and signal level versus background RFI. Unbalanced phono cable from a record deck is much more susceptible to RFI than, say, speaker cable going from an amp to speakers.
Unbalanced audio cables are shielded too. But they are never going to perform as well as balanced audio. If you used unbalanced audio in a professional sound reinforcement application, with many signal sources, the resulting noise and hum would be catastrophic.