"Rip and tear...." "You're not going to go to Hell for this..." "I don't hear enough RIP!" That photo from Good Will Hunting of his platoon... OH MY GOD! Robin Williams was the Doom Marine!
Well I think those two literary periods are unfitting to describe this scene, sure romanticism prefers a focus on the emotions, while classicism shows a preference for reason and logic. However, they overlap, particularly classicism is familiar with emotion, such as nostalgia. So I think that two more fitting literary periods would be the Enlightenment (rationalism) and Storm and Stress (emotion).
In my high school American Literature class, we also had a poetry book with a terrible introduction. My teacher said we could rip it out like in Dead Poet’s Society. When we read the poem “O Captain! My Captain!” we stood on our desks.
How does one measure literature by empirical means? Do they take the number of words divided by the chapters or stanzas, then multiply every syllable, solve for X? Excrement indeed.
I had a teacher like this in high school. He taught me to love and value all the things that I do today. He started my love of beauty, poetry, life. Gary Owens’ taught me how to be a good person. I’d forgotten under all my academic studies, which have sparked no joy in me at all. But watching this clip? It reminds me of everything I love and hold dear.
One of my favourite movie scenes. J Evans Pritchard is a perfect example of a non-creative person trying to explain the creative process. Something he has absolutely ZERO comprehension, so he relies on his own rigid, mathematical formulas to try to figure out how creatives draw outside the lines. And because of his total lack of imagination, still comes to the conclusion that you MUST draw inside the lines. If you want to have creative kids, give them a pen and a blank piece of paper. If you want to raise dullards, give them colouring books.
I admit this reminds me of that episode of The Office when Michael Scott starts ripping the pages out of the student's economic textbook. Given that Michael is a big Robin Williams fan, this scene was probably his inspiration.
Cameron is the only one who copies what Keating puts on the board, notice? And when he hears Keating's analysis, he crosses it out. Seeing that moment in the theater got a laugh from the audience.
If you freeze the video at 2:02 you can see the opening paragraph as Neil, and later Cameron, read it, and you can see it is a complete match. However, it looks like Neil read two paragraphs if you look closely.
I was brought to tears at the majesty of those words and that riveting performance. For a moment, wished I for that vigor of youth and those past times of boundless optimism. But alas, there is today only disinformation, a Ministry of Truth, filth and plastic excitement and manufactured desolation and war.
The fact that I’m too dumb for college is sort of a blessing. I love that I can read poetry completely void of the intellectual measurements and just enjoy the beauty of it.
The limits that you have are the limits that you place upon yourself. Poetry here is part of the human experience, its subjective value changes from person to person, 1 poem can shout differently depending on the person that reads it.That is the value out of poetry, it means something, out of nothing. The beauty of our life against the wall at the end of our long corridor. Don't be so lost in the technicalities and logic of your brain, so that you don't sound incomprehensibly wrong for not finding a different perspective. Anyways, IQ is not a thing, college is a choice, and if you want to know how much more you can think, get a good teacher, they will learn with you.
@@KB-gd6fc The same person that came up with the nowadays colloquialism for IQ regretted creating it and its use. The same person who made it also considered the flexibility of it, and therefore, the implication that someone could get better at a subject [which was its use when it was made, academically wise based on subject.] the more they practiced it and tried to understand it by confronting it more often. ruclips.net/video/u-c_4wVPUcI/видео.html Have fun watching this video.
The best teacher I ever had was my 11th grade foundations 2 class(if that tells you how bad I was in math) but have a very extreme passion for history, culture, and language. He taught us with such practicality that it was like we weren't learning math at all. Mr.Shepard was his name bearded old man who'd get high before coming in and he'd dance down the hallway and got to know him so well when I was put in his class he had a nickname for me "Cowboy Man" I never found out why he called me that. When school finished he gave me his number and said if you ever need work let me know and gave me a hug. He passed away from cancer not to long after.
For all this movie's pretense, it's actually pretty anti-intellectual. This scene is a great demonstration of that. Rather than having a spirited intellectual discussion about the technical, aesthetic, and philosophical aspects of poetry and literature, and to what degree they can be objectively analyzed, he blithely declares another academic's perspective 'excrement' as though it were objective fact then tells his students to cause damage to a textbook for no discernable reason.
well yeah if the point he's trying to get across is "think for yourselves" then them annihilating the idea of "think only inside this stated box" then he got his point across pretty effectively. it wasn't "an" opposing point of view, it was the complete antithesis of the message he was trying to get across
No, he then goes into explaining why he wanted them to rip out the introduction. He wanted them to understand that poetry is important and not something you just measure.
"Good Will Hunting" is incredibly good. But nothing-NOTHING-will ever convince or persuade me otherwise that "Dead Poets Society" was Robin Williams' career-best performance.
This film was a huge influence on how I taught in the classroom for 31 years...had an A to Z idea about a daily lesson, but it was a stream of consciouness path. No better way to teach Am Hist and Philosophy. Used this film in my Phil class. Kids loved this film...compared it with "Blackboard Jungle". Miss my classroom...too much bullshit now...
As a mathematician, I ended up hating my English classes because they precisely treated poetry and literature in a mechanical way. I don't want literature and poetry to be treated the way mathematics and science to be treated. There is beauty in math, but it is an entirely different beauty than in literature.
I just noticed that for the first time. But the BS is really initials for Byron and Shakespeare, which were in the intro. Keating just used first letters for everything except the GREAT to save time.
Art is subjective. Mostly. If you try to hard to pin it down, you "Miss the Forrest for the trees". The woods are pretty and quiet. And amazing on their own. But more so shared with like minded company. Too often we analyze an experience rather than fully live it.
I have to ask, did anything like that ''graph'' concept in the textbook preface ever actually exist? Or was it just some bullshit made up by the movie to give the instructor a fictional ''establishment'' villain to rebel against?
@@joshweiner4645 I figured. Few things are more insufferable than a person, movie, novel, or show feeling smug for defeating a fictional straw-man of their own invention...
There is actually something worse than just a rationalist approach to poetry criticism. The Humanities are now overrun by political idealogues who wish to destroy the essential heart of Literature by perverting it towards rescuing the unrepresented minorities and debasing the standards of Literature studies. Read Harold Bloom for wise insight and deep literary criticism.
@@Robert-hz9bjSo do you think that a fictional script should only draw it’s names and figures from real life? Your criticism of this element of the film is confusing. It’s worth mentioning that there are academics out there who approach poetry similarly to this “strawman”. I looked up if Pritchard was real as well after seeing the film, I hated the notion of his character so much! In my search I also came across “real” scales on which to measure poetry. I think they’re all bullshit :)
Great movie. I actually went to see it before popular. Each time I watch it gets better perhaps. Not sure this reflects actual learning experience. Join the conversation. Is this a great movie? Why or why not?
I think this “ understanding poetry” IS important in 2024 considering AI. Often AI poems are missing meter, figures of speech,objective and how the objective is rendered.
This could also be interpreted in a different way. That not everything taught in school or in books is correct. That our societies are full of flaws and contradictions.
What Dr. Perrine/Pritchard was trying to say is that some works of literature are more important than others. This is an idea that should be engaged with, not dismissively ripped out.
Now when the Nazis did something like this they were rightly condemned. When the Soviets pulped the material of Boris Pasternak, they too were rightly condemned. In fact if this film was intended as a film about 'a cult' then indeed it is a masterpiece. But really for that to have been the case, it would require a DPS 2. There wasn't one, so I assume it is simply a piece of Hollywood pap.
@@imakequestionablechoices7446 Hi, you are clearly a fan boy/girl. As such you assume I misunderstand - it's convenient. I understand the scene, it's not complicated. It's the protagonist's response that is the problem. Now, if you'd been just a little curious you'd have understand, from my examples that that was my concern. But then cult thinking has no room for curiosity.
@@peterdowney1492 Actually, I've never watched the movie, simply fell down a youtbue wormhole. The point of this scene is not to form a cult, in fact it's intentions are the opposite. The thinking demonstrated in the book that poems must be measured to prove their greatness is instead what leaves no room for curiosity. Whilst I do not condone the destruction of literature and do very much understand the significance of the oppression of knowldege and critical thinking throughout history. Furthermore, whilst I agree with you that that is a serious subject, this scene is not about the ripping of the books. It is partly about grabbing attention, not only of the students in the movie, but that of the audience and as such many books had to suffer, but it is more importantly about the liberty of thinking in the world of poetry. Poetry is so vast and versatile, lending itself to many a format and subject, that it is infact near impposible to compare or' measure' poems as the book instructed students to do so.
@@imakequestionablechoices7446 Hi, I haven't read beyond your first two points. You haven't watched the film?? How can you hope to put the scene in context without having done so? You then say the intention was not to set up a cult. I never said it was his intention. I think you need to read what it is I've written. Be curious and stop shooting from the hip. Cheers.
@@peterdowney1492 apologies if I misunderstoood something in your comment, english is only my third language. That said, you sould read beyond those first two points, after all, how can you hope to put them in context without having done so. That said, I do agree with your encouragment of curiosity, it is important to maintain critical and logical thinking especially in this day and age.
I hate the way they make a hero out of this Keating bastard. I agree with most of his pedagogical insights and strategies except the way he let down that boy who had trouble with his dad was awful.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
let's be honest if every teacher was like him no one would skip school.
yes
We would also not have textbooks 😂
There’d be a lot more young boys committing suicide. That’s for sure
I had some really great teachers like him and stopped going to school anyways. Life is about living and some see a classroom as a cage.
so true OMG 🤣
Teacher like that is like a breath of fresh air, not just another brick in the wall
"Rip and tear...."
"You're not going to go to Hell for this..."
"I don't hear enough RIP!"
That photo from Good Will Hunting of his platoon...
OH MY GOD! Robin Williams was the Doom Marine!
Even if it had been the Bible, I don't think they'd have gone to hell for this.
This scene gives a perfect example of the difference between classicism (rationalism) and romanticism (emotion).
Well I think those two literary periods are unfitting to describe this scene, sure romanticism prefers a focus on the emotions, while classicism shows a preference for reason and logic. However, they overlap, particularly classicism is familiar with emotion, such as nostalgia. So I think that two more fitting literary periods would be the Enlightenment (rationalism) and Storm and Stress (emotion).
Or between art and science.
Really, between formula/dogma and thinking.
@@filippo_7133Good point. Though I never heard about the "Storm and Stress" movement.
That within itself spilt the audience in half. But at the same time brought them together. They don’t make good movies like this anymore
In my high school American Literature class, we also had a poetry book with a terrible introduction. My teacher said we could rip it out like in Dead Poet’s Society. When we read the poem “O Captain! My Captain!” we stood on our desks.
Poetry books probably don’t have introductions anymore 😂
@@Coneman3 Lol probably not. Or kids might be using their iPads/ebooks.
Poetry is meant to be understood not calculated
Not necessarily even 'understood', rather 'felt'. But I get your point
And appreciation of it subjective, not something that can be rated objectively.
How does one measure literature by empirical means? Do they take the number of words divided by the chapters or stanzas, then multiply every syllable, solve for X? Excrement indeed.
Hi, Pranav. That's your opinion, indeed, I would agree with you. But what does that have to do my point? Cheers.
@@Meesterlijker I'd say the fact that you felt it means you've understood its message.
this is a battle - a war - and the casualties can be your hearts and souls - truer words were never spoken
this movie had a treasure trove of great scenes - a shame more people can't see beyond their noses when teaching children about life
I had a teacher like this in high school. He taught me to love and value all the things that I do today. He started my love of beauty, poetry, life. Gary Owens’ taught me how to be a good person. I’d forgotten under all my academic studies, which have sparked no joy in me at all. But watching this clip? It reminds me of everything I love and hold dear.
True, the brilliant teachers that only teach a script or agenda, are not of caliber to those that have the student muster courage to be free
One of my favourite movie scenes. J Evans Pritchard is a perfect example of a non-creative person trying to explain the creative process. Something he has absolutely ZERO comprehension, so he relies on his own rigid, mathematical formulas to try to figure out how creatives draw outside the lines. And because of his total lack of imagination, still comes to the conclusion that you MUST draw inside the lines. If you want to have creative kids, give them a pen and a blank piece of paper. If you want to raise dullards, give them colouring books.
My 7th Grade English teacher was just like this. My favorite teacher of all time
this scene altered my brain chemistry forever
I admit this reminds me of that episode of The Office when Michael Scott starts ripping the pages out of the student's economic textbook. Given that Michael is a big Robin Williams fan, this scene was probably his inspiration.
I remember Van Wilder 2 scene.😂 "Damn, these pages aren't getting ripped even this book is of 1600's! Throw the entire book out!"
Cameron is the only one who copies what Keating puts on the board, notice? And when he hears Keating's analysis, he crosses it out. Seeing that moment in the theater got a laugh from the audience.
"That you are here-that life exists and identity,
That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse." -----Walt Whitman
If you freeze the video at 2:02 you can see the opening paragraph as Neil, and later Cameron, read it, and you can see it is a complete match. However, it looks like Neil read two paragraphs if you look closely.
I was brought to tears at the majesty of those words and that riveting performance. For a moment, wished I for that vigor of youth and those past times of boundless optimism. But alas, there is today only disinformation, a Ministry of Truth, filth and plastic excitement and manufactured desolation and war.
theres a party in my tummy (so yummy so yummy)
8 years ago today the world lost Robin Williams😰❤️
August 11th, 2014
Goosh, How come we never had teachers like this
The fact that I’m too dumb for college is sort of a blessing. I love that I can read poetry completely void of the intellectual measurements and just enjoy the beauty of it.
The limits that you have are the limits that you place upon yourself. Poetry here is part of the human experience, its subjective value changes from person to person, 1 poem can shout differently depending on the person that reads it.That is the value out of poetry, it means something, out of nothing. The beauty of our life against the wall at the end of our long corridor.
Don't be so lost in the technicalities and logic of your brain, so that you don't sound incomprehensibly wrong for not finding a different perspective.
Anyways, IQ is not a thing, college is a choice, and if you want to know how much more you can think, get a good teacher, they will learn with you.
@@flouglemireindustries4335 IQ is certainly a thing. And is certainly a limiting factor in people’s lives.
@@KB-gd6fc The same person that came up with the nowadays colloquialism for IQ regretted creating it and its use. The same person who made it also considered the flexibility of it, and therefore, the implication that someone could get better at a subject [which was its use when it was made, academically wise based on subject.] the more they practiced it and tried to understand it by confronting it more often. ruclips.net/video/u-c_4wVPUcI/видео.html
Have fun watching this video.
@@KB-gd6fc See if you went into higher education you would know how bullshit IQ is
The best teacher I ever had was my 11th grade foundations 2 class(if that tells you how bad I was in math) but have a very extreme passion for history, culture, and language. He taught us with such practicality that it was like we weren't learning math at all. Mr.Shepard was his name bearded old man who'd get high before coming in and he'd dance down the hallway and got to know him so well when I was put in his class he had a nickname for me "Cowboy Man" I never found out why he called me that. When school finished he gave me his number and said if you ever need work let me know and gave me a hug. He passed away from cancer not to long after.
I think Mr mcallister learned a lesson from keating aswell. At the end of film he's teaching students outside like keating
Yes, that's the idea of him teaching the class outside and using the building parts to teach Latin words.
- Mr. Keating... I didn't know you were here...
- I am! 😁
It just hit me. "You will learn to think for yourselves again! That's why I badgered you all into destroying a perspective I don't agree with!"
For all this movie's pretense, it's actually pretty anti-intellectual. This scene is a great demonstration of that. Rather than having a spirited intellectual discussion about the technical, aesthetic, and philosophical aspects of poetry and literature, and to what degree they can be objectively analyzed, he blithely declares another academic's perspective 'excrement' as though it were objective fact then tells his students to cause damage to a textbook for no discernable reason.
well yeah if the point he's trying to get across is "think for yourselves" then them annihilating the idea of "think only inside this stated box" then he got his point across pretty effectively. it wasn't "an" opposing point of view, it was the complete antithesis of the message he was trying to get across
In order to become a free thinking spirit, one first needs to learn to defy framed thought patterns such as the one by Pritchard.
@@Robert-hz9bj JJ. ROBERTS
No, he then goes into explaining why he wanted them to rip out the introduction. He wanted them to understand that poetry is important and not something you just measure.
"Good Will Hunting" is incredibly good.
But nothing-NOTHING-will ever convince or persuade me otherwise that "Dead Poets Society" was Robin Williams' career-best performance.
Crimes of Keating:
Crime 1: Destruction of property.
1:23 With that Sweater and Glasses, the actor playing Neil; Robert Sean Leonard. Kinda looks like Steve Ditko era Peter Parker.
Oh, I took this so literally when I saw this in the theater! LOL!
something similar should be done in most economics lessons that simplifies human actions and preferences of millions of people into curves
I love how you see the exact moment Charlie goes from cruising along to fascinated at 1:57 and then engaged at 2:07.
This film was a huge influence on how I taught in the classroom for 31 years...had an A to Z idea about a daily lesson, but it
was a stream of consciouness path. No better way to teach Am Hist and Philosophy. Used this film in my Phil class. Kids
loved this film...compared it with "Blackboard Jungle". Miss my classroom...too much bullshit now...
teachers like mr. Keating really are life-changing, i had one teacher that acts and teaches like him and i am Todd in my case
I really like this scene.
The Fugitive 1922-1925 were some of the best poetry.
As a mathematician, I ended up hating my English classes because they precisely treated poetry and literature in a mechanical way. I don't want literature and poetry to be treated the way mathematics and science to be treated. There is beauty in math, but it is an entirely different beauty than in literature.
Very well put. They’re two entirely different disciplines that can be appreciated in their own individual way.
He called the introduction for what it was : BS. Just look at the chalkboard a little more closely.
I just noticed that for the first time. But the BS is really initials for Byron and Shakespeare, which were in the intro. Keating just used first letters for everything except the GREAT to save time.
This hit me hard❤
This scene, in part, made me want to be a teacher.
How often do you tell them to rip up their textbooks?
It inspired me to be a teacher as well.
@@MrOdsplut It inspires me too. If I had the resources, I would try to replicate this scene.
3:27 - What was the original line that was dubbed?
In a similar vein, I find musical analysis by musicologists to be of similar merit and usefulness.
I tried to do this with my physics students but I got fired :(
Did you tell your students to rip the Newton's laws' pages from their books?
Oh, like Keating, huh?
Art is subjective. Mostly. If you try to hard to pin it down, you "Miss the Forrest for the trees". The woods are pretty and quiet. And amazing on their own. But more so shared with like minded company. Too often we analyze an experience rather than fully live it.
Two things that don’t match: numbers and words; you can’t apply mathematic to poetry
Does anyone know if that second "...and you, may contribute a verse." was scripted or improv'd!
It almost seemed improvised. Would like to know
Robin: Rip and Tear
Demons:
Dr. J Evans Prichard literally bringing algebra into poetry 😂what’s next? Poetry =mc2?
I lived between the chalkboard and the whiteboard. Who am I?
What happened to scenes like this?
Not enough CGI, diversity and LGBTQ kissing going on.
1:25 haha that guy
Rip Robin Williams
What will MY Verse be?
I have to ask, did anything like that ''graph'' concept in the textbook preface ever actually exist? Or was it just some bullshit made up by the movie to give the instructor a fictional ''establishment'' villain to rebel against?
As best I can tell, it's made up, as is the whole "J Evans Pritchard" character.
@@joshweiner4645 I figured. Few things are more insufferable than a person, movie, novel, or show feeling smug for defeating a fictional straw-man of their own invention...
There is actually something worse than just a rationalist approach to poetry criticism. The Humanities are now overrun by political idealogues who wish to destroy the essential heart of Literature by perverting it towards rescuing the unrepresented minorities and debasing the standards of Literature studies. Read Harold Bloom for wise insight and deep literary criticism.
@@Robert-hz9bjSo do you think that a fictional script should only draw it’s names and figures from real life? Your criticism of this element of the film is confusing. It’s worth mentioning that there are academics out there who approach poetry similarly to this “strawman”. I looked up if Pritchard was real as well after seeing the film, I hated the notion of his character so much! In my search I also came across “real” scales on which to measure poetry. I think they’re all bullshit :)
Did they have paper shredders back then?
I think so, but what were they going to do, have the students line up in front of one to shred the pages?
Great movie. I actually went to see it before popular. Each time I watch it gets better perhaps. Not sure this reflects actual learning experience. Join the conversation. Is this a great movie? Why or why not?
I saw it in the theater and when Cameron crossed out the graph he copied because Mr. Keating put it on the board, the audience laughed.
What a game changing play. Momentum swings very pivotal in team ball. Unity!
A young Robert sean leonard for some rason he reminds me of a male version of anne Hathaway:/
3:41
...and for the rest of them, let them continue to choke while granny runs after them with a weed whacker gumming on a cracker! 🍘
Love this movie, love this scene and love Williams, but I gotta be honest, I kindda agree with dr. Pritchard PhD… I think he has the right of it.
I'm sure everyone has noticed, but when Keating gives the waste basket to Neil to pass around, his lips do not match what he is saying.
I think this “ understanding poetry” IS important in 2024 considering AI. Often AI poems are missing meter, figures of speech,objective and how the objective is rendered.
humanity, poetry is human, my case rests there
❤❤❤😊😊😊
Wilsoooon!!!
❤️🔥❤️🔥
Fantastic movie except the suicide
What suicide? The movie ends at the play and Neil and Todd get married and live happily ever after
Scribblomation Which version of the movie did you watch!?
@@georgeso4364 The better one ):
@@drwilsonstoenailpolish3194 AAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for giving that away, you blabbermouth!
I’m still gonna use the Pritchard method, it sounds good
This could also be interpreted in a different way. That not everything taught in school or in books is correct. That our societies are full of flaws and contradictions.
He didn't recycle all the pages that were ripped out.
What Dr. Perrine/Pritchard was trying to say is that some works of literature are more important than others. This is an idea that should be engaged with, not dismissively ripped out.
Agreed
Ok. Don't write this down, but I find Pritchard just as boring as you find Pritchard. Mrs. Pritchard found him boring too.
Now when the Nazis did something like this they were rightly condemned. When the Soviets pulped the material of Boris Pasternak, they too were rightly condemned.
In fact if this film was intended as a film about 'a cult' then indeed it is a masterpiece. But really for that to have been the case, it would require a DPS 2. There wasn't one, so I assume it is simply a piece of Hollywood pap.
You have clearly missed the entire point of this scene
@@imakequestionablechoices7446 Hi, you are clearly a fan boy/girl. As such you assume I misunderstand - it's convenient. I understand the scene, it's not complicated. It's the protagonist's response that is the problem.
Now, if you'd been just a little curious you'd have understand, from my examples that that was my concern.
But then cult thinking has no room for curiosity.
@@peterdowney1492 Actually, I've never watched the movie, simply fell down a youtbue wormhole. The point of this scene is not to form a cult, in fact it's intentions are the opposite. The thinking demonstrated in the book that poems must be measured to prove their greatness is instead what leaves no room for curiosity. Whilst I do not condone the destruction of literature and do very much understand the significance of the oppression of knowldege and critical thinking throughout history. Furthermore, whilst I agree with you that that is a serious subject, this scene is not about the ripping of the books. It is partly about grabbing attention, not only of the students in the movie, but that of the audience and as such many books had to suffer, but it is more importantly about the liberty of thinking in the world of poetry. Poetry is so vast and versatile, lending itself to many a format and subject, that it is infact near impposible to compare or' measure' poems as the book instructed students to do so.
@@imakequestionablechoices7446 Hi, I haven't read beyond your first two points. You haven't watched the film??
How can you hope to put the scene in context without having done so? You then say the intention was not to set up a cult. I never said it was his intention. I think you need to read what it is I've written. Be curious and stop shooting from the hip. Cheers.
@@peterdowney1492 apologies if I misunderstoood something in your comment, english is only my third language. That said, you sould read beyond those first two points, after all, how can you hope to put them in context without having done so. That said, I do agree with your encouragment of curiosity, it is important to maintain critical and logical thinking especially in this day and age.
❤
I hate the way they make a hero out of this Keating bastard. I agree with most of his pedagogical insights and strategies except the way he let down that boy who had trouble with his dad was awful.
💀
He couldn’t control the students’ families though but yea honestly the dad was terrible without a doubt
He's not professional.
Good
What ? Lol
❤