Wow.. What a job........ Sold my 72 C177B a couple of years before this happened. Loved that airplane. Had it 16 years. Flew it for business and virtually lived out of it 5-6 days a week. FBO's, Airports, Shops, I&R schools, Charter operators - you name it. Those were my customers, so it made no sense to travel any other way, Went through one overhaul and was 1200 hrs into the next when I sold it. Never had any major squawks with it either. Glad you got it taken care of and hope the C177 will be around a long time to come....Retired and bought me a J3 to play with now...
Sorry to hear you received that most unwelcome news. With that said your attitude is the right one. You inspired me to buy a Cardinal earlier this year, I got very lucky that when the AD came out in March I went ahead and got the inspection done and I got a pass on my spar. Cant wait to see you in that 210 some more. I might just be inspired to follow you there as well. Cheers!
The thoroughness and quality of work will increase your resale value when that day comes. Cardinal buyers are generally quite knowledgeable and will take comfort in and pay a premium for one as well maintained in yours. Your right, much cheaper than a funeral!
Oh no!!! Great job on keeping your eye on safety and having a good attitude in the face of such disappointing news and expense. I always enjoy your content!
Am over 50 (71) and learning to fly in a Cardinal. It passed the visual last annual and doing the eddy current test in a couple days. Thanks for the video.
Thanks, Ted! I have never researched the ADs for the Cardinals or Centurions, so was unaware of this doozy. ADs such as this one (or the Cherokee family wing spar AD) go a long way to explaining the used aircraft price range varying so much. As you eloquently stated, any AD is cheaper than the price of a funeral.
Great presentation👍 I learnt in Cessnas and have flown both the 177 & 210 as well as did several years aircraft engineering before I went on to fly commercially. When the C210 crashed here in Oz where the wing let go I silently prayed that I got away with it all those years ago!
Ted, Thanks very much for sharing your experience with the carry through spar replacement. My ‘75 177B spar passed, but it was definitely a nerve wracking inspection day. Your analytical approach and experience locating an excellent part replacement and contracting with a skilled and trustworthy shop will no doubt ease some of the fears and anxiety as many more owners run this gauntlet. The fleet will be safer and we can all fly with confidence. Appreciate your videos.
Sorry for the experience, but great that you found it and addressed it. And, I appreciate your attitude and commitment to safety. The next owner will get a solid and safe airplane!
Looks as if there was no corrosion treatment even in 1968. And it doesn't look as if you took the aircraft completely apart, although you have taken the interior out, the wings off and the carry through out.
+1 For stopping corrosion as early as possible…. Do not wait. Spar replacements are expensive… and are most concerning when performing a pre-purchase inspection…. The work involved is huge. Metal airplanes in general… not just 210s. Eddy current inspections are a nice non-destructive test that also looks for corrosion and cracks of propeller hubs… 😀 Ownership is challenging…. But, easier Over Fifty, than under 30…. 😃 Get that house paid down… kids through college… career in full bloom…. Go Fly!
Great video and attitude. I had a similar reaction when I found a crack in the crankcase of my 177RG while tracking down an oil leak. As I said to my wife, "I like finding the answer. I may not like the answer, but I like finding the answer." Could you share more details about what pushed your old spar over the edge? What tests, measurements, and/or observations were used to determine it needed replacement? Was it a decision made by Textron, your A&P, or both? A lot of spars have some amount of corrosion present, yet few have failed to pass inspection. It would be informative to get a "real world" example of failure.
It was a Textron at the end of the day. The Eddie inspection revealed no cracks, but the corrosion was really bad. There was a lot of bad pitting, and there were many areas that were previously filed down which I didn’t realize had been done. The other side of the spar, which wasn’t in the photos was really bad, and after the pictures went to Textron Textron did the safe thing for them and they failed the spar. I wasn’t happy about it at all but you can’t do anything about it and without a successful inspection, you just have a pile of aluminum the plane is worthless.
The pass/fail criteria is spelled out in the AD. It’s not a judgement call. Having said that, your spar looked terrible frankly. Most failures are from corrosion on the lower cap where Cessna glued a pad that trapped water. Yours was bad all over! Like maybe it was kept outside near the ocean for a long time?
I did, and it had been previously filed down beyond what was acceptable and that’s why I couldn’t be repaired so it will become a very expensive coffee table that will look outstanding, and it will be the only one like it!
I don’t really know but there was plenty of corrosion on it and during the pre-buy they don’t really look at the spa and they don’t do an any inspection on the spar and the same with the annual they don’t really do an Eddie inspection on the annual that’s why The FAA put out an AD on the Cardinal… so far, so good the planes in good shape now
So I have a question and this could be for anyone that has the answer. My 177 is in the shop now and they say there’s enough corrosion and they’re not sure they’re going to be able to get it all and it may not pass Eddy current test. If it does not pass, they said that they understand it would take well over 100 to 150 hours to put a new spar in plus the cost of a spar. Which what they tell me would cost at least 50 to 75% of the overall value of the airplane its current condition. The rest of the plane is beautiful and has all new avionics including auto pilot. And his IFR certified. So what is the guy to do if you have to spend the value of your plane to put a new sparring? Provided you can afford to do that in the first place? Just not having a good sleep at night until I learn what’s going on.
@@Over50andLearningToFly Thank you for the videos btw! Your channel is one of the best finds I've seen and have rekindered my interest in flying again. Ive always wanted a 177RG, its just captured my imagine for some reason. It will see the 177 moving away but I am excited to find another plane. Keep up the work!!
I have questions. Why/how did you buy a plane with corrosion so bad on a spar that it has to be replaced? How long have you owned it? how has it passed annual? Pass a pre-buy? How could the spar be so corroded that it has to be replaced but it wasn't found ? How did you go through all this and still not know how to spell EDDY?
Great video and explanation. Too bad that Cessna won't manufacture new spar carry-throughs for the 177 - I guess there aren't enough of them to make it economically feasible? Does Cessna make a new spar carry-through for the 210?
Are the spars coming from BAS Parts used serviceable with 8130's or COC's? I think that White Industries was aircraft salvage. I guess it's cheaper than NEW! Jeff, Ohio
Not the news an owner wants to hear. At what point would the repair be deemed "beyond economical" in which case your only option would be to part out the plane? You are lucky to find an airworthy replacement spar, but eventually the supply will dry up. Then what will owners do? Does Cessna /Textron have new spars available for the 210/177 aircraft?
Well, I think it would always be beneficial to replace the spar. Even if you have an aircraft with an older engine and avionics that are not updated, putting a new spar would lengthen the life of the plane so at the minimum you’re always be able to get your use out of it and if you went ahead and updated it, you’d have a better plane to. Unfortunately, with luxury items like boats planes and luxury cars, you can’t look at getting all your money out of it every single time I am about the break even point may be a little bit underneath the plane by five or $10,000 but the enjoyment I’ve gotten out of it is priceless. And if I wasn’t going to upgrade my airplane I definitely keep it because it’s a fun airplane. Cessna text Ron is offering new spores, but there is a long wait for them like up to a year, and there are plenty of spar’s out there. Another alternative I would imagine, not that I’ve tested this, is an owner could get the aircraft recertified as experimental and then they would be able to do what they want with it however, I’m not sure if that would be accurate .. it was just an idea. Thanks for watching!
For anyone else watching, the Cessna experts that I've heard from suggest getting a second opinion if a spar inspection fails for corrosion. And probably from an expert.
Not really. The AD specifies exactly how much material can be removed to address corrosion pitting. It the depth of the pitting exceeds limits, you fail. Pretty cut and dried.
@@SkylaneGuy it certainly does but the analysis of those amounts is not consistent. I'm not an expert. Just going off what I've heard experts say. I think Mike Busch had something on this. And anyway, does it sound like a good idea to dive into such a major expensive project based on the say -so of one person? I know people rip out perfectly good engines all the time for that reason. Mike Busch certainly has feelings on that one also.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
“Better than it was before” was exactly what I was thinking at the start of your video.
Wow.. What a job........ Sold my 72 C177B a couple of years before this happened. Loved that airplane. Had it 16 years. Flew it for business and virtually lived out of it 5-6 days a week. FBO's, Airports, Shops, I&R schools, Charter operators - you name it. Those were my customers, so it made no sense to travel any other way, Went through one overhaul and was 1200 hrs into the next when I sold it. Never had any major squawks with it either.
Glad you got it taken care of and hope the C177 will be around a long time to come....Retired and bought me a J3 to play with now...
Sorry to hear you received that most unwelcome news. With that said your attitude is the right one. You inspired me to buy a Cardinal earlier this year, I got very lucky that when the AD came out in March I went ahead and got the inspection done and I got a pass on my spar. Cant wait to see you in that 210 some more. I might just be inspired to follow you there as well. Cheers!
Great vid sir! Never the less I am so happy that we passed EDDY last year and got the SEL completed fine.
The thoroughness and quality of work will increase your resale value when that day comes. Cardinal buyers are generally quite knowledgeable and will take comfort in and pay a premium for one as well maintained in yours. Your right, much cheaper than a funeral!
Oh no!!! Great job on keeping your eye on safety and having a good attitude in the face of such disappointing news and expense. I always enjoy your content!
Am over 50 (71) and learning to fly in a Cardinal. It passed the visual last annual and doing the eddy current test in a couple days. Thanks for the video.
Thanks, Ted! I have never researched the ADs for the Cardinals or Centurions, so was unaware of this doozy.
ADs such as this one (or the Cherokee family wing spar AD) go a long way to explaining the used aircraft price range varying so much. As you eloquently stated, any AD is cheaper than the price of a funeral.
Can’t believe you didn’t mention the asking price and “ask for the sale” 😆 good info , thanks 👍
I may not want to sell it …😉
Great presentation👍 I learnt in Cessnas and have flown both the 177 & 210 as well as did several years aircraft engineering before I went on to fly commercially. When the C210 crashed here in Oz where the wing let go I silently prayed that I got away with it all those years ago!
Ted, Thanks very much for sharing your experience with the carry through spar replacement. My ‘75 177B spar passed, but it was definitely a nerve wracking inspection day. Your analytical approach and experience locating an excellent part replacement and contracting with a skilled and trustworthy shop will no doubt ease some of the fears and anxiety as many more owners run this gauntlet. The fleet will be safer and we can all fly with confidence. Appreciate your videos.
Dear Lord !
I never knew these fully "Cantilever" Cessna wings were so flimsy/dangerous !!!!!
Thanks for letting all of us see the EYE OPENING TRUTH !
Sorry for the experience, but great that you found it and addressed it. And, I appreciate your attitude and commitment to safety. The next owner will get a solid and safe airplane!
Thanks for making this video...the best video I've seen on the topic. P.S. I'm sorry you had to go through this.
An expensive repair is still cheaper than a funeral. Thanks for watching!
Ouch . . . I don't feel so bad about our last annual . . .Hope all goes well
Looks as if there was no corrosion treatment even in 1968. And it doesn't look as if you took the aircraft completely apart, although you have taken the interior out, the wings off and the carry through out.
I don’t know, maybe fire Eddie and get an eddy current inspection?
+1 For stopping corrosion as early as possible…. Do not wait.
Spar replacements are expensive… and are most concerning when performing a pre-purchase inspection…. The work involved is huge.
Metal airplanes in general… not just 210s.
Eddy current inspections are a nice non-destructive test that also looks for corrosion and cracks of propeller hubs… 😀
Ownership is challenging…. But, easier Over Fifty, than under 30…. 😃
Get that house paid down… kids through college… career in full bloom….
Go Fly!
Just had my carry thru spar test and thankfull it passed.
Great video and attitude. I had a similar reaction when I found a crack in the crankcase of my 177RG while tracking down an oil leak. As I said to my wife, "I like finding the answer. I may not like the answer, but I like finding the answer."
Could you share more details about what pushed your old spar over the edge? What tests, measurements, and/or observations were used to determine it needed replacement? Was it a decision made by Textron, your A&P, or both? A lot of spars have some amount of corrosion present, yet few have failed to pass inspection. It would be informative to get a "real world" example of failure.
It was a Textron at the end of the day. The Eddie inspection revealed no cracks, but the corrosion was really bad. There was a lot of bad pitting, and there were many areas that were previously filed down which I didn’t realize had been done. The other side of the spar, which wasn’t in the photos was really bad, and after the pictures went to Textron Textron did the safe thing for them and they failed the spar. I wasn’t happy about it at all but you can’t do anything about it and without a successful inspection, you just have a pile of aluminum the plane is worthless.
The pass/fail criteria is spelled out in the AD. It’s not a judgement call. Having said that, your spar looked terrible frankly. Most failures are from corrosion on the lower cap where Cessna glued a pad that trapped water. Yours was bad all over! Like maybe it was kept outside near the ocean for a long time?
G, day from Sydney Australia. When the corroded and pitted spar is out, it would be great to have a close look at a cut section of the aluminium.
🌏🇭🇲
I did, and it had been previously filed down beyond what was acceptable and that’s why I couldn’t be repaired so it will become a very expensive coffee table that will look outstanding, and it will be the only one like it!
what caused such a high level of corrosion? What else is corroded? How it pass your pre-buy inspection? How did it pass the yearly annuals?
I don’t really know but there was plenty of corrosion on it and during the pre-buy they don’t really look at the spa and they don’t do an any inspection on the spar and the same with the annual they don’t really do an Eddie inspection on the annual that’s why The FAA put out an AD on the Cardinal… so far, so good the planes in good shape now
So I have a question and this could be for anyone that has the answer. My 177 is in the shop now and they say there’s enough corrosion and they’re not sure they’re going to be able to get it all and it may not pass Eddy current test. If it does not pass, they said that they understand it would take well over 100 to 150 hours to put a new spar in plus the cost of a spar. Which what they tell me would cost at least 50 to 75% of the overall value of the airplane its current condition. The rest of the plane is beautiful and has all new avionics including auto pilot. And his IFR certified. So what is the guy to do if you have to spend the value of your plane to put a new sparring? Provided you can afford to do that in the first place? Just not having a good sleep at night until I learn what’s going on.
What’s your number and I’ll call you …
Other than getting the dreaded call to replace the spar. Was the next thought, "Ahhhh I was just flying that yesterday!" 😯
And will be tomorrow!😎
@@Over50andLearningToFly Thank you for the videos btw! Your channel is one of the best finds I've seen and have rekindered my interest in flying again. Ive always wanted a 177RG, its just captured my imagine for some reason. It will see the 177 moving away but I am excited to find another plane. Keep up the work!!
I have questions. Why/how did you buy a plane with corrosion so bad on a spar that it has to be replaced? How long have you owned it? how has it passed annual? Pass a pre-buy? How could the spar be so corroded that it has to be replaced but it wasn't found ? How did you go through all this and still not know how to spell EDDY?
It wasn’t corrosion… 😇
Wonder why this wasn't found on annual.
An Eddie current inspection is not part of an annual… this was a specific AD… thanks for watching!!!
Glad you found the part quickly. Have you had your plane treated with CorrosionX or any corrosion inhibitors?
Yes - all the green ! Thanks for watching!
Great video and explanation. Too bad that Cessna won't manufacture new spar carry-throughs for the 177 - I guess there aren't enough of them to make it economically feasible? Does Cessna make a new spar carry-through for the 210?
I am too afraid to ask !!!
Usually, at least for 210s, Cessna has to forge a new carry-through since the planes have been out of production for so long. It ain't cheap...
I know !!!
Are the spars coming from BAS Parts used serviceable with 8130's or COC's? I think that White Industries was aircraft salvage. I guess it's cheaper than NEW! Jeff, Ohio
Spars from BAS are provided with an 8130, inspection reports, and a work order showing all the work done showing the AD is completely satisfied
The paperwork it was perfectly in order, and there were other companies that I could’ve chosen to purchase as far from, but Bas paperwork was perfect!
a movie with Tom Hanks and Shelly Long comes to mind.
Oh gosh, you said this was a '68, did you get the tail fixed or was that taken care of in the original recall?
That was all taken care of. Thanks for watching!
Not the news an owner wants to hear. At what point would the repair be deemed "beyond economical" in which case your only option would be to part out the plane? You are lucky to find an airworthy replacement spar, but eventually the supply will dry up. Then what will owners do? Does Cessna /Textron have new spars available for the 210/177 aircraft?
Well, I think it would always be beneficial to replace the spar. Even if you have an aircraft with an older engine and avionics that are not updated, putting a new spar would lengthen the life of the plane so at the minimum you’re always be able to get your use out of it and if you went ahead and updated it, you’d have a better plane to. Unfortunately, with luxury items like boats planes and luxury cars, you can’t look at getting all your money out of it every single time I am about the break even point may be a little bit underneath the plane by five or $10,000 but the enjoyment I’ve gotten out of it is priceless. And if I wasn’t going to upgrade my airplane I definitely keep it because it’s a fun airplane. Cessna text Ron is offering new spores, but there is a long wait for them like up to a year, and there are plenty of spar’s out there. Another alternative I would imagine, not that I’ve tested this, is an owner could get the aircraft recertified as experimental and then they would be able to do what they want with it however, I’m not sure if that would be accurate .. it was just an idea. Thanks for watching!
TL;DR. The answer is yes. Textron is making new ones. Twice the price of a salvaged one, but at least you can get them.
It's' "eddy" as in "eddy current".
Oooops! 😇
As an NDT guy, I’m used to the typos 😂
Welcome back. LOL 😅😊😂
For anyone else watching, the Cessna experts that I've heard from suggest getting a second opinion if a spar inspection fails for corrosion. And probably from an expert.
Now you tell me…. 😉
@@Over50andLearningToFly lol yeah. Apparently there can be quite a diversity of opinion. And these inspections are highly subjective.
Not really. The AD specifies exactly how much material can be removed to address corrosion pitting. It the depth of the pitting exceeds limits, you fail. Pretty cut and dried.
@@SkylaneGuy it certainly does but the analysis of those amounts is not consistent. I'm not an expert. Just going off what I've heard experts say. I think Mike Busch had something on this. And anyway, does it sound like a good idea to dive into such a major expensive project based on the say -so of one person? I know people rip out perfectly good engines all the time for that reason. Mike Busch certainly has feelings on that one also.
Are you a CFO member?
Yes!
i never had a plane fail a inspection
Then it's time to replace.
That wing spar nightmare is enough to keep me out of a 177 or 210. No thanks.
ha ha.... you put that to bed quick!!!
"Eddie" inspection? I think you mean eddy... Thanks for the video though.
You are correct