I'm a contractor and I never leave my tool batteries on the chargers overnight in my personal garage, my shop, or on a jobsite. I may start keeping them in a Firebox outside.
Yea, I here you, but cordless can reach anywhere easily, probably might be a good idea if they are kept in the far end of a garage,, iside a metal cabimet, that's what I need to hurry up and do.
2 years ago after hearing about these battery fires, I changed. I charge my batteries only when I am in the same room as the charger. When batteries are full, I remove the batteries and shut off the power to the chargers. All my batteries except 1 are dewalt batteries. Have bought cheaper in the past but those don't last and crack easily.
I live next door to you in Rochester Hills. I use, as do many in these parts, Ego electric lawn tools. They work great and you only need one battery for all the tools. However, a generation of the batteries feature a defective high temperature cutoff switch connection which randomly throws an error condition and disables the battery even though it is fully charged and not overheated. The problem is that a widely published workaround on social media is to drop the battery onto a concrete surface from a height of about 2 feet. The impact re-seats the switch connector and the battery begins working correctly. I have tried this and it does work, but only temporarily. If you have to do this every time you need to cut the grass, it's only a matter of time until some internal physical damage will cause other issues.
Thank you, I've wanted to get a battery operated lawnmower for some time now. Saw some nice reviews - - going green and all. Then I started searching for fire safety battery storage and found none. I've been very uncomfortable with the idea of winter storing large lithium-ion batteries in my basement. So . . . I keep up the repairs on my Lawnboy mower and hope they will upgrade battery technology. (I'm thinking that as more EV's and the like catch fire, the insurance industry may decide to put their finger on the development scale.)
Another thing with cheap, off-brand replacement tool batteries - they are often advertised as having greater capacity than the originals, but almost always have significantly less, generally about 60%.
Thank you for the battery storage tips, Captain! I have an Li-powered lawn mower and snow thrower, one of which is actually the Kobalt brand (from Lowe's) you show at 2:06. Since discovering your channel (now subscribed👍), I've become worried about those things out in my _attached_ garage. It turns out I am following all the charging/storage guidelines you stated. I've always followed the rules of (1) getting replacement batteries from the original manufacturer (hey, there's an identifiable company to sue if they cause a fire) and (2) using the original manufacturer's charger and being present while it's charging. And yes, not leaving the battery on the charger once it's charged. This technology offers a lot of nice benefits, but it seems it was adopted way too fast without taking into account the risks involved in using it. I get the impression fire fighters had to figure out how to deal with these fires kind of on the fly - and kudos to them for doing it so quickly! 👏
I break down old tool and laptop batteries to recover cells, some observations on failures : There are a fair number of close call tool batteries where they've vented a cell or more, but haven't started on fire. Some only leave a faint stain, some melt a little, but all these are going unreported I assume. Makes me wonder. Water kills more batteries than any other single thing. Most tool batteries are made up of 18650 or 21700 cells, both of which look like big AAs or C cells and use a steel case. Tool batteries have vents to let the internals dry, but they also often have a padded tray on the bottom row that traps moisture. If your battery gets wet (rain happens), take it apart and lift the cells out. You'll need a "security torx" to open most. When the cells rust the metal thins and makes it easy to rupture. Short of that, shake them upside down and other orientations move the trapped water. These rusty ones have tons of vented cells. The BMS is supposed to protect the batteries, but BMSs fail more commonly than cells in my findings. Usually they fail toward safety, locking up a battery while the cells are fine - looking at you Dyson. I've also found many with a 0v cell or two with the others overcharged to compensate. B&D 40v comes to mind here, sample size of them is 2 so could be related to the same broken charger, but a pack should never able to be overcharged on some cells to make pack voltage. I've also seen it with a brand new 4ah Wally battery. Burnt terminals - several new looking batteries turn out to have the plastic around the slots where the battery engages with the tool to be warped, disassembly shows the terminal burnt. Give a look at the terminals on your tools, are they clean? Same with the socket on the battery, is it getting gunky? They're hard to clean from the exterior, shot of contact cleaner should do. But if you have that torx driver and some Q-Tips why not spend the five minutes? Those terminals are soldered to the BMS, the heat of a bad contact is being transferred to the BMS, can't be good for it working correctly. Please do not use the jumpstart tricks you see here on YT. Battery charger won't charge because it's too low, you might get away with it if it's just a little under the cut off, but why's it below in the first place? I see people taking 0v batteries and "reviving" them. If a cell's been that low the chances of failure go way up, IF it takes a charge, and it'll most likely self discharge in the future anyway. Probably how it got that low.
I can see a time perhaps a hundred years from now when people will look back on the widespread use of lithium battery technology in disbelief and ask, "What were they thinking?" in the same way that we view the now horrifying Victorian applications of 'miraculous, health-giving' substances such as tobacco, radium and cocaine.
@joejones4172 - Naah, you're being deliberately obtuse. Dig a little deeper, with emphasis on the totally unregulated distribution of radium (sic) to pregnant mothers and babies, and cocaine (sic) as a 'fortifying tonic for daily consumption', not the clinical application of radiation and opiates for pain relief. If you dig deep enough you'll find the still-glowing bones of Marie Curie.
@joejones4172 - No, I said specifically: tobacco, radium and cocaine, not 'herbal infusions' and the clinical application of all drugs and radioactive substances. The first three things were sold freely and used in products intended for consumption by all, including pregnant women and babies. They did enormous harm. Totally irresponsible, totally unacceptable, and - importantly - something that's no longer done. Similarly, I was not condemning ALL battery technology, just lithium, the most energy-dense and least suitable for widespread distribution. We still have plenty of tolerably effective battery chemistries. In a century, I doubt if lithium will be one of them.
Like when we look back to 1800's, Ladies with big full length dresses navigating across roads covered in horse poo. (then dragging it into the house when they got home)
And if you have an E-bike use a "countdown timer to interrupt the mains after 4 or 6 hours when it is changed and if you have to charge indoors don't block exits and don't sleep.
We need a better way to deal with and store our lithium tool batteries. Is it worth it to get an official fire proof cabinet? My concern with that is all my batteries would be in there and could possibly go up in flames also making the fire bigger. I don't care about losing batteries but care very much how to protect myself. It seems like we need a fire proof cabinet with individual compartments so the other batteries are separate. Please respond, anyone.
re: "It seems like we need a fire proof cabinet with individual compartments so the other batteries are separate. Please respond, anyone." yes, you can trust your instincts on this. having SEPARATE COMPARTMENTS and "isolating" the batteries one from the other is how you reduce the chances of "Propagation". it's essentially no different than how you saw all the Teslas and other EV's on that Good Morning America news report that had incurred salt water damage after Hurricane Ian parked in a field with like 25ft of separation between vehicles in the event one of them decided to "light off". mind you this does NOT 100% guarantee of safety, but the idea here is to simply MINIMIZE RISK.
You convinced me to install some battery operated smoke detectors in my garage and two large wood sheds. I don't know if the extreme temperature will cause false alarms or if I'll here one going off at night with my windows close, but it cheap insurance if they alert me before the shed fire extends to my house's siding.
@@kimfleury I would prefer to hardwire, but I don't know how they will react to the outdoors. I have tested thousands of fire detector of all types and I have seen environment issues but none in a resident sheds across from a farm field. What I would like is to get 220v ionization detectors from the 1960s. They held up the best in environments (except steam) and you could clean them under dust conditions and the panels were analog.
During construction of the Waterfront Place condos at the Port of Everett, WA, a fire occurred in the tool crib, which was a shipping container. A week later, one of the two buildings under construction burned to the ground. Embers threatened homes on the bluff above the port. The cause was determined to be batteries in both cases, although I believe it was deliberate arson.
Something that I found that maybe is not considered is the typical alkaline battery….yes I had an incident where a battery fresh out of the package installed in an aluminum body Mag flashlight immediately started a thermal runaway, I discovered this as it was in my pocket….I could hardly handle the case and dump the battery(s)-2….never did I experience such an event…but it can occur…I did contact the manufacturer, and provided lot and date info…they didn’t seem to be to concerned….Rayovac…AA’s….be aware!
On a related manner. I recently scrapped 3 aluminium torches, all powered by 3 D batteries. In all 3, the middle battery shed acid and caused corrosion fusing the battery to the case. And you then have to remove the batteries by brute force. Batteries were recent and rarely used. Unless these torches are used daily, you may have this problem. I will use the torches put out by the tool makers, as those batteries last much longer. My Dewalt led torch will run over 12 hours on a dewalt battery. The D battery torches only last for 1 or 2 hours at most.
My alarm systems both have a lithium battery for brief backup power. Both of them had swollen batteries after a few years. Another thing to check, as it would be ironic if your alarm system caused your house or business to burn down.
re: "At over $80 per tool battery I expect it NOT to burn down my home." indeed, that's why in Psychology, "Grift", and Fraud Investigation circles they have a term called EXPECTATION SUBVERSION.
That's the biggest problem with all this cordless junk, the batteries are way to expensive and don't last. The only one's who benefit are the manufacturers, sell more crap more often.
@@paulstubbs7678 Exactly my thoughts as well. I was looking for a power tool a few weeks ago, and nearly everything the store offered, was battery powered. I wanted a cord. I have several plugs in the garage, and plenty of extension cords. I have no problem with a cord, and it would last forever and not force me to continue to spend money replacing batteries.
For R/C flying, I stored lithium-ion batteries at the proper mid storage voltage in a metal trash can with a sheet of metal laid over the top. This way there would be no pressure buildup but the heat would be contained. That said the smoke would have been bad enough but at least any fire would be contained. Thanks for your informative videos 🙂
I'd like to add that if you plan to not use a lithium battery pack for a while (days, weeks, months) they are best stored at nominal voltage which is 3.6V for most lithium cells or roughly 50% charge capacity, just like they come from factory. This will greatly extend their useful life, reducing the risk of dendrite formation leading to poor performance over time and possibly causing thermal runaway during charging or discharging. People are often confused by old advice given for other battery chemistries like NiMH which should be stored at full charge, but this is a very bad idea for basically any lithium cell, at any length of time.
Seems like something is seriously wrong with our system of regulations which is often overly burdensome in respect to insignificant items like plastic straws but apparently completely lacking for the most dangerous items. At what point do we outlaw the manufacture and import of batteries that pose such high risk? There are already batteries that are orders of magnitude safer and still have high capacities… and there are already unsafe batteries everywhere that will have to be dealt with over time, so it seems like there has to come a time when as a society we have had enough of this misadventure, especially as we move ahead with EV mandates, putting car chargers in every home and letting the charging happen at night for the grid’s sake… a bad game of Russian roulette.
I happen to own a DJI drone and it is said that it is improper to leave the battery plugged into either the drone itself or the charger because it will interrupt the battery management system of the battery itself. That once plugged into either goes into the battery management mode of the product it's plugged into. I haven't read my DeWalt tool battery manuals yet, but I bet something similar is going on in the tool maker would likely recommend to charge the battery and then disconnect it from anything. Now that doesn't mean a fire can't occur and it would be nice if chargers had an 80% switch. You could click in order to charge the battery for simple storage, maybe that could be a new proposed law. We would need testing for that but it's an idea.
great advice. sometimes engineering innovations like Li Ion energy storage has consequences engineers never envisaged. battery management systems evolved for larger batteries where consequences were worse. i’ve become more guarded in choosing to use from YT reviews . the consumer is the ideal test bed & will choose every mismatch possible. in a competitive world there will be damage beyond the battery itself. the benefits proven by high consumer uptake cannot be ignored either. 99% will perform very well over their life. hopefully electro-chemistry will evolve to safer more compact electric energy storage.
What about other tool brands? Most of the tools out there are just rebranded and made by a few companies. If we need to be this vigilant over batteries in our homes, how insane it is that we are putting these in our cars!!
Heavy construction worker here. In the last thirty years since battery tools have become ubiquitous on jobs I can truly say I’ve never seen a battery fire on a job. And where the shops supply the power tools, these battery drills and saws are totally beat to crap on a daily basis. For the most part on the job site you see Dewalt and Milwaukee battery tools. Some Makita. You almost never see any other brand because they don’t stand up to the hard usage or outright abuse. If you plan on buying one for your home, don’t go with some cheap no-name brand. I prefer Milwaukee. I couldn’t kill them on the job so for home use it should last forever. I still use caution about where my charging station is located.
I use DeWalt cordless tools, use OEM batteries and never leave batteries on charger overnight, never leave them on charge unless I am awake and in the house.
Most lithium batteries run into issues, due to overcharging, overcurrent and overdischarge. Physical damage to Charger or the Battery pack could result in any of the above as well. OverCurrent, OverCharging happens due to poor BMS. What is even more important is overdischarge. Eventhough BMS prevents overdischarge, With enough time, any lithium battery will fully discharge. Dendrites form during the process of charging them again. Certain well designed chargers, either flag batteries as non chargeable/eol or charge at a very low current for several hours to mitigate this issue. Any fast charging, will result in shorting out the battery and a thermal runaway at sometime in future. Incase of BEV battery packs, they have a hidden capacity, to prevent running them down too low on charge. If that happens, as in extreme weather, it takes a while to charge them, even at a supercharger. We know what has happened at Chicago a while back. Never let a lithium battery stay discharged. Maintain atleast 50% SoC, when storing them away. BMS-Battery ManagementSystem, SoC-State of Charge.BEV-Battery Electric Vehicle.
The one incident I had was because the charger was knocked over and the battery disengaged from the contacts. Plugging the battery back in started the charge cycle over and the battery quickly overheated and went up in flames. Fortunately I was standing right next to it and was able to kick it out of the service truck. This was a well known name brand product otherwise undamaged.
Not sure if it’s the same thing but I received a Battery Backup System for a Home Safe that requires 4 alkaline batteries, when I placed the 4th battery into the case it immediately started burning my hand. The batteries were blustering and smoking, It slightly burned my hand while removing the 4 Batteries. I was in my kitchen and didn’t want to drop it and was too far from a door to place it safely outdoors! Any thoughts?
@ I didn’t think Alkaline Batteries would do that either, but hate to tell you it did happen to me. Immediately after I removed the 4 batteries I tossed the 2 worst batteries into a pile of crushed stone, went to retrieve them a day later and couldn’t find them (big pile of crushed stone). I do have 2 batteries showing some blistering and have a photo but can not upload to U-Tube.
after getting some service done on one my Milwaukee tools, at the same time i additionally returned 2 defective batteries to Milwaukee for disposal via my local Cooper Electrical Supply. i had those two 5ah batteries for a few years now, but they just stopped charging past 3 bars and they were definitely out of warranty. now i know there is some common problem that can occur with these packs that the DIY guys will do a "self-repair" on but to that i say HARD PASS, i simply wanted those two batteries OUT of my garage, OUT of my house, and OUT of my truck. i'm already stopping in visiting Home Depot at least 3x per week, so it's not like i don't know where to buy new ones when i'm ready to "come off the dime". for safety i recognize it actually helps to REDUCE the total number of packs i own anyway.
This has been occurring for over 30 years. Lithium Ion batteries are a known fire risk and putting them in vehicles has only high-lighted this. Many sadly do not realise their dangers and I would love to know how many EV owners know exactly what type of batteries their cars have and the preventative measures you may take to prevent an avoidable fire. The Lithium Ion battery is a chemical battery and if spontaneously combusts either internally or catches fire from another source is a chemical class D fire, the worst type, develops quickly, burns hot and is almost impossible to extinguish and may re-ignite and this is exactly what we are seeing. Having completed 30 years in the London Fire Brigade I have seen so many people who "thought it would never happen to me" at fires. Fires destroy life and property, most of which are avoidable so think very carefully what you buy and how you use it with regard to anything powered by Lithium Ion batteries.
I agree with the safety tips given. For sake of argument I think the story of battery safety is more nuanced than stated. Battery safety is general increasingly safer in my view. I agree to a degree that chaeper battery could pose more safety concerns. I have heard that in the most lower end tool batteries sime batches are part of resold minor production error batteries that are resold and rebranding or refurbished slight. In my view and experience it is not perse se an issue as long as the the threshold defective battery limits are not surpassed for reuse safety concerns. In that case cheaper batteries are in my view not per se an issue in safety concern per se. In this regard it is noteable that in this report fire risk report is from a Skil battery, which is considerd a a high tier/quality brand!!! In that regard for arguments sake the story is more nuanced in my view. When I critically look at battery pack design and bms board implementations there is a lot to be desired in terms of a battery health and safety quality of tool batteries, where both top tier and lower tier batteries both have their pro's and cons, with battery safety. In my experience, despite currenty data on battery health and safety data on tool batteries, is not the whole story, as rightly pointed out in this video. Ther are several videos on RUclips showing tool battery issues. General advice with tool with visual cues for battery inspection sounds correct to me. But even then, such as with battery packs, the outsid quality or state doesn't always tell the whole story. It is certainly worth buying or having tool battery packs that allow opening of the case to inspect the pack, leads and bms boards for damage to get a clearer picture, and issues can found and repaired easily, without compromising the whole pack. Three things in general I have noticed that are battery health concerns in my experience with using, maining and repairing tool batteries are: 1. A lack of good cell balancing technologies in all tool batteries.Cell balancing technologies have improved greatly but are not always taken advantage of, even in the newest tool batteries. This lack of balancing causes voltage drifting over time, which causes cell imbalances in packs, and in my view at are a risk of thermal runaway risks because of the cell imbalances; 2. A lack of standard in tool battery charge and power connectors, which causes behavior of desiging and using third party adaptors, which can attribute perhaps to lower quality pseudoconnections to tools 3. A lack of proper liquid cooling in tool batteries. Batteries are passively or air cooled sometimes. EVs have shown that liquid cooling works better and safer for battery health and safety. 4. A good and closed battery case that doesn't allow water, condensate or and other liquid into the battery pack. Some batterie packs have holes for battery cooling, but liquids can get in. With proper use however, I have found tool batteries safe to use, both high amd low quality batteries. Again, in my view, the helathy and safe use and choice tool batteries is more nuanced, bit I agree there is still room for a lot of improvement of battery health and safety and practicality for both the top tier and lower tier tool battery packs, for both the newest and older packs.
If an incident happens with the off brand battery, the lawsuit against the tool manufacturer will be harder to win. You were using an unauthorized battery. Storing the batteries properly makes total sense.
The chargers for tool batteries stop charging once the battery is full or one they sense a fault condition. It's those unmanaged cheap Chinese batteries in everything from tiny drones to even some full size bicycles that are the actual problem. Every single example of a fire has been from unmanaged charging or battery damage or exposure to external sources of heat.
I'm honestly too burdened with obligations and duties to pay attention to the status of batteries being charged. I think I'll avoid lithium ion batteries.
Leaving Li-ion batteries on charge ruins em! Especially tool batteries which typically charge to a higher state than cell phone batteries and device batteries which often to charge to only ~ 80% so that repeated charging doesn't damage them and the battery will retain capacity longer. Tool batteries usually chrage to near 100% because batteries are more easily replaced and motors need that extra 20% to spin faster and you want ur drill or watever to last as long as possible, A good source of info on all this is BatteryUniversity just fyi.. C:
NMC/NCA batteries are intrinsically unsafe and we may have 10X more of them 10 years from now if governments keep pushing for electric-everything at any cost the way they are right now. The first thing authorities should do if they care about safety is ban the use of NMC/NCA lithium batteries in new devices. LFP isn't immune but it is significantly more stable.
You can't tell people not to buy cheap packs. One 18650 costs 3 cents each when bought by the pallet and they sell six of them for 70 to 100 bucks or more, an amazon 💩 sandwich is like 35. Realistically, you need to tell people to get metal boxes, trashcans or cabinets and pack a vent into it with steel screen and keep it as far away as possible when you're sleeping or gone or just to be prudent.
I bought a Makita clone with Makita clone battery. Useless!! The so called 5 battery lasts less time than the 3 Makita. I am bad,, I leave batteries on charge too often. BUT at least do turn the power off in the shed whan I close up for the night. Something I recomend everyone does. There is no viable recycling of batteries that I know of anywhere in the world,, potential recyclers have gone up in smoke!!! Or cannot get insurance to do so.
A very good point about old phones - how many of us have several old phones in drawers and never think of the fire risk of the batteries
Erm... after a month or so, they are completely discharged...
@@davidlloyd1526 Are they no longer a fire risk when fully discharged? I have no idea
omg
Well, if the companies would stop locking the batteries inside phones, we could remove them.
@@cc2681 Thermal runaway happen when there's thermal. No thermal no fire.
I'm a contractor and I never leave my tool batteries on the chargers overnight in my personal garage, my shop, or on a jobsite. I may start keeping them in a Firebox outside.
Just used corded now
Another Public Service Announcement! Great Job!
Thank you for keeping us informed.
This is why I prefer my corded tools with endless power. No bombs hidden inside.
I mostly use impact wrenches. Do not miss air hoses one bit
Yea, I here you, but cordless can reach anywhere easily, probably might be a good idea if they are kept in the far end of a garage,, iside a metal cabimet, that's what I need to hurry up and do.
2 years ago after hearing about these battery fires, I changed. I charge my batteries only when I am in the same room as the charger. When batteries are full, I remove the batteries and shut off the power to the chargers. All my batteries except 1 are dewalt batteries. Have bought cheaper in the past but those don't last and crack easily.
what an absolute loo zur
I live next door to you in Rochester Hills. I use, as do many in these parts, Ego electric lawn tools. They work great and you only need one battery for all the tools. However, a generation of the batteries feature a defective high temperature cutoff switch connection which randomly throws an error condition and disables the battery even though it is fully charged and not overheated.
The problem is that a widely published workaround on social media is to drop the battery onto a concrete surface from a height of about 2 feet. The impact re-seats the switch connector and the battery begins working correctly. I have tried this and it does work, but only temporarily. If you have to do this every time you need to cut the grass, it's only a matter of time until some internal physical damage will cause other issues.
Got my attention - ran out to see what my Skil battery is.
Thank you,
I've wanted to get a battery operated lawnmower for some time now. Saw some nice reviews - - going green and all.
Then I started searching for fire safety battery storage and found none.
I've been very uncomfortable with the idea of winter storing large lithium-ion batteries in my basement.
So . . . I keep up the repairs on my Lawnboy mower and hope they will upgrade battery technology. (I'm thinking that as more EV's and the like catch fire, the insurance industry may decide to put their finger on the development scale.)
Going green 🤣😂
Another thing with cheap, off-brand replacement tool batteries - they are often advertised as having greater capacity than the originals, but almost always have significantly less, generally about 60%.
This is great content 🇺🇸
Thanks, I wasn't aware of the Skil battery recall. I have a few, will check them to see if they're in the affected lot.
Looking forward to your upcoming series on Li-ion battery disposal and recycling. 😀
Building awareness and great advice as always, many thanks.
Thank you for the battery storage tips, Captain! I have an Li-powered lawn mower and snow thrower, one of which is actually the Kobalt brand (from Lowe's) you show at 2:06. Since discovering your channel (now subscribed👍), I've become worried about those things out in my _attached_ garage. It turns out I am following all the charging/storage guidelines you stated. I've always followed the rules of (1) getting replacement batteries from the original manufacturer (hey, there's an identifiable company to sue if they cause a fire) and (2) using the original manufacturer's charger and being present while it's charging. And yes, not leaving the battery on the charger once it's charged.
This technology offers a lot of nice benefits, but it seems it was adopted way too fast without taking into account the risks involved in using it. I get the impression fire fighters had to figure out how to deal with these fires kind of on the fly - and kudos to them for doing it so quickly!
👏
I take all my old batteries to the local household hazmat recycling center. I hope they are shipping them correctly.
Do you have to pay for that?
@ no. It’s free to the community. The cost of running the program is baked into the monthly trash bill.
I throw mine in the trash.
Thanks for the advice and warning 😊
I break down old tool and laptop batteries to recover cells, some observations on failures :
There are a fair number of close call tool batteries where they've vented a cell or more, but haven't started on fire. Some only leave a faint stain, some melt a little, but all these are going unreported I assume. Makes me wonder.
Water kills more batteries than any other single thing. Most tool batteries are made up of 18650 or 21700 cells, both of which look like big AAs or C cells and use a steel case. Tool batteries have vents to let the internals dry, but they also often have a padded tray on the bottom row that traps moisture. If your battery gets wet (rain happens), take it apart and lift the cells out. You'll need a "security torx" to open most. When the cells rust the metal thins and makes it easy to rupture. Short of that, shake them upside down and other orientations move the trapped water. These rusty ones have tons of vented cells.
The BMS is supposed to protect the batteries, but BMSs fail more commonly than cells in my findings. Usually they fail toward safety, locking up a battery while the cells are fine - looking at you Dyson. I've also found many with a 0v cell or two with the others overcharged to compensate. B&D 40v comes to mind here, sample size of them is 2 so could be related to the same broken charger, but a pack should never able to be overcharged on some cells to make pack voltage. I've also seen it with a brand new 4ah Wally battery.
Burnt terminals - several new looking batteries turn out to have the plastic around the slots where the battery engages with the tool to be warped, disassembly shows the terminal burnt. Give a look at the terminals on your tools, are they clean? Same with the socket on the battery, is it getting gunky? They're hard to clean from the exterior, shot of contact cleaner should do. But if you have that torx driver and some Q-Tips why not spend the five minutes? Those terminals are soldered to the BMS, the heat of a bad contact is being transferred to the BMS, can't be good for it working correctly.
Please do not use the jumpstart tricks you see here on YT. Battery charger won't charge because it's too low, you might get away with it if it's just a little under the cut off, but why's it below in the first place? I see people taking 0v batteries and "reviving" them. If a cell's been that low the chances of failure go way up, IF it takes a charge, and it'll most likely self discharge in the future anyway. Probably how it got that low.
I can see a time perhaps a hundred years from now when people will look back on the widespread use of lithium battery technology in disbelief and ask, "What were they thinking?" in the same way that we view the now horrifying Victorian applications of 'miraculous, health-giving' substances such as tobacco, radium and cocaine.
Radiation and poisons for Cancer treatment. Oh wait, that hasn't changed.
@joejones4172 - Naah, you're being deliberately obtuse. Dig a little deeper, with emphasis on the totally unregulated distribution of radium (sic) to pregnant mothers and babies, and cocaine (sic) as a 'fortifying tonic for daily consumption', not the clinical application of radiation and opiates for pain relief. If you dig deep enough you'll find the still-glowing bones of Marie Curie.
@joejones4172 - No, I said specifically: tobacco, radium and cocaine, not 'herbal infusions' and the clinical application of all drugs and radioactive substances. The first three things were sold freely and used in products intended for consumption by all, including pregnant women and babies. They did enormous harm. Totally irresponsible, totally unacceptable, and - importantly - something that's no longer done.
Similarly, I was not condemning ALL battery technology, just lithium, the most energy-dense and least suitable for widespread distribution. We still have plenty of tolerably effective battery chemistries. In a century, I doubt if lithium will be one of them.
Except lithium batteries worked. Tabacco, radium and coccajne are known to simply be drugs and have no positive benefits
Like when we look back to 1800's, Ladies with big full length dresses navigating across roads covered in horse poo. (then dragging it into the house when they got home)
Thanks for this.
You're welcome!
And if you have an E-bike use a "countdown timer to interrupt the mains after 4 or 6 hours when it is changed and if you have to charge indoors don't block exits and don't sleep.
BS advice, i sleep next to 20KwH of batteries for years and never had a problem
@Blox117 so far.
I guess I had best go check my batterys . . . thank ya stacheD.
We need a better way to deal with and store our lithium tool batteries. Is it worth it to get an official fire proof cabinet? My concern with that is all my batteries would be in there and could possibly go up in flames also making the fire bigger. I don't care about losing batteries but care very much how to protect myself. It seems like we need a fire proof cabinet with individual compartments so the other batteries are separate. Please respond, anyone.
I have like 8 tool batteries and a power bank in my service truck so I want to know too
This IS the huge elephant in the room.
Nobody has a solid solution!
re: "It seems like we need a fire proof cabinet with individual compartments so the other batteries are separate. Please respond, anyone." yes, you can trust your instincts on this. having SEPARATE COMPARTMENTS and "isolating" the batteries one from the other is how you reduce the chances of "Propagation". it's essentially no different than how you saw all the Teslas and other EV's on that Good Morning America news report that had incurred salt water damage after Hurricane Ian parked in a field with like 25ft of separation between vehicles in the event one of them decided to "light off". mind you this does NOT 100% guarantee of safety, but the idea here is to simply MINIMIZE RISK.
@@dwightsmith5174 Looks like an opportunity to make some money considering how many of these batteries are out there.
You convinced me to install some battery operated smoke detectors in my garage and two large wood sheds. I don't know if the extreme temperature will cause false alarms or if I'll here one going off at night with my windows close, but it cheap insurance if they alert me before the shed fire extends to my house's siding.
Just make sure that when they go off you know about it in your house, as in will it wake you in the middle of the night?
Maybe set up a baby monitor in the shed?
@@kimfleury I would prefer to hardwire, but I don't know how they will react to the outdoors. I have tested thousands of fire detector of all types and I have seen environment issues but none in a resident sheds across from a farm field. What I would like is to get 220v ionization detectors from the 1960s. They held up the best in environments (except steam) and you could clean them under dust conditions and the panels were analog.
During construction of the Waterfront Place condos at the Port of Everett, WA, a fire occurred in the tool crib, which was a shipping container. A week later, one of the two buildings under construction burned to the ground. Embers threatened homes on the bluff above the port. The cause was determined to be batteries in both cases, although I believe it was deliberate arson.
The problem I have is my tools are great but the manufacturer stopped making the batteries when they dropped that style of tool.
Also Skil is the same as Denali (for Amazon and maybe others).
Something that I found that maybe is not considered is the typical alkaline battery….yes I had an incident where a battery fresh out of the package installed in an aluminum body Mag flashlight immediately started a thermal runaway, I discovered this as it was in my pocket….I could hardly handle the case and dump the battery(s)-2….never did I experience such an event…but it can occur…I did contact the manufacturer, and provided lot and date info…they didn’t seem to be to concerned….Rayovac…AA’s….be aware!
On a related manner. I recently scrapped 3 aluminium torches, all powered by 3 D batteries. In all 3, the middle battery shed acid and caused corrosion fusing the battery to the case. And you then have to remove the batteries by brute force. Batteries were recent and rarely used. Unless these torches are used daily, you may have this problem. I will use the torches put out by the tool makers, as those batteries last much longer. My Dewalt led torch will run over 12 hours on a dewalt battery. The D battery torches only last for 1 or 2 hours at most.
They are called "flashlights" in the colonies, sir. Your audience may not be as en"lightened", and need more context.
My alarm systems both have a lithium battery for brief backup power. Both of them had swollen batteries after a few years. Another thing to check, as it would be ironic if your alarm system caused your house or business to burn down.
Thank You for posting this very informative and important video. Stay Safe. Firefighters Rock!!!
I had a customer have a Milwaukee go thermal but they were so switched on after my constants complaints that they got the battery out in time.
CHEERS from AUSTRALIA
At over $80 per tool battery I expect it NOT to burn down my home.
re: "At over $80 per tool battery I expect it NOT to burn down my home." indeed, that's why in Psychology, "Grift", and Fraud Investigation circles they have a term called EXPECTATION SUBVERSION.
That's the biggest problem with all this cordless junk, the batteries are way to expensive and don't last.
The only one's who benefit are the manufacturers, sell more crap more often.
@@paulstubbs7678 Exactly my thoughts as well. I was looking for a power tool a few weeks ago, and nearly everything the store offered, was battery powered. I wanted a cord. I have several plugs in the garage, and plenty of extension cords. I have no problem with a cord, and it would last forever and not force me to continue to spend money replacing batteries.
Try $400 in Australia
i saw a video where the guy had tool battery chargers mounted to his garage wall.. all i could think was WHEN those batteries explode.. ?
Older American here. I've got a serious question regarding the storage of LI tool batteries. Should they be stored in metal bucket with a metal lid?
For R/C flying, I stored lithium-ion batteries at the proper mid storage voltage in a metal trash can with a sheet of metal laid over the top. This way there would be no pressure buildup but the heat would be contained. That said the smoke would have been bad enough but at least any fire would be contained. Thanks for your informative videos 🙂
Is there a database of LI-on recalled batteries?
Why don’t you do a video on the LA fires close to 500.000 ev in KA how many are gone and how they fueled the blaze
I'd like to add that if you plan to not use a lithium battery pack for a while (days, weeks, months) they are best stored at nominal voltage which is 3.6V for most lithium cells or roughly 50% charge capacity, just like they come from factory. This will greatly extend their useful life, reducing the risk of dendrite formation leading to poor performance over time and possibly causing thermal runaway during charging or discharging. People are often confused by old advice given for other battery chemistries like NiMH which should be stored at full charge, but this is a very bad idea for basically any lithium cell, at any length of time.
Store them in an unused fire place?
Great advice, thank you.
You're welcome!
Seems like something is seriously wrong with our system of regulations which is often overly burdensome in respect to insignificant items like plastic straws but apparently completely lacking for the most dangerous items. At what point do we outlaw the manufacture and import of batteries that pose such high risk? There are already batteries that are orders of magnitude safer and still have high capacities… and there are already unsafe batteries everywhere that will have to be dealt with over time, so it seems like there has to come a time when as a society we have had enough of this misadventure, especially as we move ahead with EV mandates, putting car chargers in every home and letting the charging happen at night for the grid’s sake… a bad game of Russian roulette.
I agree, especially your first sentence. Does anyone remember when Congress decided what kind of toilets we could use?
Ever hear of thalidomide?
Swallowing the camel but straining the gnats.
I happen to own a DJI drone and it is said that it is improper to leave the battery plugged into either the drone itself or the charger because it will interrupt the battery management system of the battery itself. That once plugged into either goes into the battery management mode of the product it's plugged into. I haven't read my DeWalt tool battery manuals yet, but I bet something similar is going on in the tool maker would likely recommend to charge the battery and then disconnect it from anything.
Now that doesn't mean a fire can't occur and it would be nice if chargers had an 80% switch. You could click in order to charge the battery for simple storage, maybe that could be a new proposed law. We would need testing for that but it's an idea.
great advice. sometimes engineering innovations like Li Ion energy storage has consequences engineers never envisaged. battery management systems evolved for larger batteries where consequences were worse. i’ve become more guarded in choosing to use from YT reviews . the consumer is the ideal test bed & will choose every mismatch possible. in a competitive world there will be damage beyond the battery itself. the benefits proven by high consumer uptake cannot be ignored either. 99% will perform very well over their life. hopefully electro-chemistry will evolve to safer more compact electric energy storage.
What about other tool brands? Most of the tools out there are just rebranded and made by a few companies. If we need to be this vigilant over batteries in our homes, how insane it is that we are putting these in our cars!!
Heavy construction worker here. In the last thirty years since battery tools have become ubiquitous on jobs I can truly say I’ve never seen a battery fire on a job. And where the shops supply the power tools, these battery drills and saws are totally beat to crap on a daily basis. For the most part on the job site you see Dewalt and Milwaukee battery tools. Some Makita. You almost never see any other brand because they don’t stand up to the hard usage or outright abuse. If you plan on buying one for your home, don’t go with some cheap no-name brand. I prefer Milwaukee. I couldn’t kill them on the job so for home use it should last forever. I still use caution about where my charging station is located.
Waiting for my kit.
If you could share the details when you get it, it would be appreciated.
Not many people know that damp conditions can cause lithium to get very excited
I use DeWalt cordless tools, use OEM batteries and never leave batteries on charger overnight, never leave them on charge unless I am awake and in the house.
Most lithium batteries run into issues, due to overcharging, overcurrent and overdischarge. Physical damage to Charger or the Battery pack could result in any of the above as well.
OverCurrent, OverCharging happens due to poor BMS. What is even more important is overdischarge. Eventhough BMS prevents overdischarge, With enough time, any lithium battery will fully discharge. Dendrites form during the process of charging them again. Certain well designed chargers, either flag batteries as non chargeable/eol or charge at a very low current for several hours to mitigate this issue. Any fast charging, will result in shorting out the battery and a thermal runaway at sometime in future. Incase of BEV battery packs, they have a hidden capacity, to prevent running them down too low on charge. If that happens, as in extreme weather, it takes a while to charge them, even at a supercharger. We know what has happened at Chicago a while back. Never let a lithium battery stay discharged. Maintain atleast 50% SoC, when storing them away. BMS-Battery ManagementSystem, SoC-State of Charge.BEV-Battery Electric Vehicle.
The one incident I had was because the charger was knocked over and the battery disengaged from the contacts. Plugging the battery back in started the charge cycle over and the battery quickly overheated and went up in flames. Fortunately I was standing right next to it and was able to kick it out of the service truck. This was a well known name brand product otherwise undamaged.
Does it somehow make you feel important to throw around acronyms that almost no one knows?
If you ordered Lithium batteries directly from China expect to be on that list of mishaps.
I like how Linus tech tips built a steel charging box
Not sure if it’s the same thing but I received a Battery Backup System for a Home Safe that requires 4 alkaline batteries, when I placed the 4th battery into the case it immediately started burning my hand. The batteries were blustering and smoking, It slightly burned my hand while removing the 4 Batteries. I was in my kitchen and didn’t want to drop it and was too far from a door to place it safely outdoors! Any thoughts?
Shouldn't happen with alkaline bats (only with rechargables if any type).
Alkalines auto-limit maximum amps.
@ I didn’t think Alkaline Batteries would do that either, but hate to tell you it did happen to me. Immediately after I removed the 4 batteries I tossed the 2 worst batteries into a pile of crushed stone, went to retrieve them a day later and couldn’t find them (big pile of crushed stone). I do have 2 batteries showing some blistering and have a photo but can not upload to U-Tube.
@ronarch7910
Incredible !!!!! 🙈🙈🙈🙈
Thanks for sharing 🙏🙏🙏
after getting some service done on one my Milwaukee tools, at the same time i additionally returned 2 defective batteries to Milwaukee for disposal via my local Cooper Electrical Supply. i had those two 5ah batteries for a few years now, but they just stopped charging past 3 bars and they were definitely out of warranty. now i know there is some common problem that can occur with these packs that the DIY guys will do a "self-repair" on but to that i say HARD PASS, i simply wanted those two batteries OUT of my garage, OUT of my house, and OUT of my truck. i'm already stopping in visiting Home Depot at least 3x per week, so it's not like i don't know where to buy new ones when i'm ready to "come off the dime". for safety i recognize it actually helps to REDUCE the total number of packs i own anyway.
This has been occurring for over 30 years. Lithium Ion batteries are a known fire risk and putting them in vehicles has only high-lighted this. Many sadly do not realise their dangers and I would love to know how many EV owners know exactly what type of batteries their cars have and the preventative measures you may take to prevent an avoidable fire. The Lithium Ion battery is a chemical battery and if spontaneously combusts either internally or catches fire from another source is a chemical class D fire, the worst type, develops quickly, burns hot and is almost impossible to extinguish and may re-ignite and this is exactly what we are seeing. Having completed 30 years in the London Fire Brigade I have seen so many people who "thought it would never happen to me" at fires. Fires destroy life and property, most of which are avoidable so think very carefully what you buy and how you use it with regard to anything powered by Lithium Ion batteries.
Algo bump!
It's almost like these lithium batteries choose the right or wrong time to go into thermal run away
I agree with the safety tips given. For sake of argument I think the story of battery safety is more nuanced than stated. Battery safety is general increasingly safer in my view. I agree to a degree that chaeper battery could pose more safety concerns. I have heard that in the most lower end tool batteries sime batches are part of resold minor production error batteries that are resold and rebranding or refurbished slight. In my view and experience it is not perse se an issue as long as the the threshold defective battery limits are not surpassed for reuse safety concerns. In that case cheaper batteries are in my view not per se an issue in safety concern per se. In this regard it is noteable that in this report fire risk report is from a Skil battery, which is considerd a a high tier/quality brand!!! In that regard for arguments sake the story is more nuanced in my view. When I critically look at battery pack design and bms board implementations there is a lot to be desired in terms of a battery health and safety quality of tool batteries, where both top tier and lower tier batteries both have their pro's and cons, with battery safety. In my experience, despite currenty data on battery health and safety data on tool batteries, is not the whole story, as rightly pointed out in this video. Ther are several videos on RUclips showing tool battery issues. General advice with tool with visual cues for battery inspection sounds correct to me. But even then, such as with battery packs, the outsid quality or state doesn't always tell the whole story. It is certainly worth buying or having tool battery packs that allow opening of the case to inspect the pack, leads and bms boards for damage to get a clearer picture, and issues can found and repaired easily, without compromising the whole pack.
Three things in general I have noticed that are battery health concerns in my experience with using, maining and repairing tool batteries are:
1. A lack of good cell balancing technologies in all tool batteries.Cell balancing technologies have improved greatly but are not always taken advantage of, even in the newest tool batteries. This lack of balancing causes voltage drifting over time, which causes cell imbalances in packs, and in my view at are a risk of thermal runaway risks because of the cell imbalances; 2. A lack of standard in tool battery charge and power connectors, which causes behavior of desiging and using third party adaptors, which can attribute perhaps to lower quality pseudoconnections to tools 3. A lack of proper liquid cooling in tool batteries. Batteries are passively or air cooled sometimes. EVs have shown that liquid cooling works better and safer for battery health and safety. 4. A good and closed battery case that doesn't allow water, condensate or and other liquid into the battery pack. Some batterie packs have holes for battery cooling, but liquids can get in.
With proper use however, I have found tool batteries safe to use, both high amd low quality batteries. Again, in my view, the helathy and safe use and choice tool batteries is more nuanced, bit I agree there is still room for a lot of improvement of battery health and safety and practicality for both the top tier and lower tier tool battery packs, for both the newest and older packs.
I bought SKIL when I first started in the trades.
I don't buy anything with the name SKIL, Black And Decker, or WEN on them.
Is there an alternative to lithium batteries that is safer? I don't remember batteries ever be so hazardous.
For the amount of power/cost lithium is the best we have at the moment. Lithium was a huge jump and took a long time.
they never were hazardous. channels like these are misinformation campaigns built to create fearmongering and to push an agenda
And dont use the battery as a hammer for knocking in wall plugs!
Yes its common!
If an incident happens with the off brand battery, the lawsuit against the tool manufacturer will be harder to win. You were using an unauthorized battery. Storing the batteries properly makes total sense.
The chargers for tool batteries stop charging once the battery is full or one they sense a fault condition.
It's those unmanaged cheap Chinese batteries in everything from tiny drones to even some full size bicycles that are the actual problem.
Every single example of a fire has been from unmanaged charging or battery damage or exposure to external sources of heat.
Put your charger behind a timer so it doesn't charge indefinitely.
Haven’t had any problems with Ryobi batteries, got like 18 of em. Just saying.
I'm honestly too burdened with obligations and duties to pay attention to the status of batteries being charged. I think I'll avoid lithium ion batteries.
Leaving Li-ion batteries on charge ruins em! Especially tool batteries which typically charge to a higher state than cell phone batteries and device batteries which often to charge to only ~ 80% so that repeated charging doesn't damage them and the battery will retain capacity longer. Tool batteries usually chrage to near 100% because batteries are more easily replaced and motors need that extra 20% to spin faster and you want ur drill or watever to last as long as possible, A good source of info on all this is BatteryUniversity just fyi.. C:
Who needs firelighters when we have lithium batteries.
How many EV owners say there safe
Drive a 16 p nail thru a Lion battery....
Just wait until all those trash battery cars get older
Battery chemistry gotta change
I believe it will a long time before that happens.
My ex neighbor bought a battery powered lawn mower because he didn't want to store flammable gasoline in his garage. 🤣
That's why I only buy OEM battries and not Chinese made junk. It's either bad battries or improperly designed BMS systems.
I wonder, what are they doing with all these spent batteries. More toxic waste to further pollute the environment.
Lithium batteries on their own are dangerous good you need to put a sticker on the box 📦 saying it’s there’s a small amount of dangerous good inside
NMC/NCA batteries are intrinsically unsafe and we may have 10X more of them 10 years from now if governments keep pushing for electric-everything at any cost the way they are right now. The first thing authorities should do if they care about safety is ban the use of NMC/NCA lithium batteries in new devices. LFP isn't immune but it is significantly more stable.
You can't tell people not to buy cheap packs. One 18650 costs 3 cents each when bought by the pallet and they sell six of them for 70 to 100 bucks or more, an amazon 💩 sandwich is like 35.
Realistically, you need to tell people to get metal boxes, trashcans or cabinets and pack a vent into it with steel screen and keep it as far away as possible when you're sleeping or gone or just to be prudent.
I bought a Makita clone with Makita clone battery. Useless!! The so called 5 battery lasts less time than the 3 Makita.
I am bad,, I leave batteries on charge too often. BUT at least do turn the power off in the shed whan I close up for the night. Something I recomend everyone does.
There is no viable recycling of batteries that I know of anywhere in the world,, potential recyclers have gone up in smoke!!! Or cannot get insurance to do so.
Take old batteries to recycle companies.