James Marsters as Spike is one of the greatest castings of all time. I met JM earlier this year and he is just as charismatic and funny irl as he is in the show
The Cordelia death fakeout has gotta be my favorite moment in reaction history... it gets everyone and its always hilarious LMAO you guys were one of the few that didn't immediately yell "you bitches!"
I don't like it because there was no reason for them to ve in a cemetery except to freak out fans. I wish they at least attempted to come up with a BS reason for them to be there.
@@johncampbell756 who was in a cemetery? Buffy and Willow were walking past a cemetery, not inside it. Considering how many cemeteries there are in Sunnydale, it's not unusual to be walking past one. Were you paying attention?
@maruskaehrensdorfer They were inside the walls of the cemetery, on an outer road around the inside walls so you can drive closer to certain sections. That cemetery has walls.
Ahahaha the obligatory, ‘I f’ing hate this show’ reaction to the Cordy fake out 😂 Love Spike roaring into town, wreaks havoc and blasts out of there without a care in the world - JM plays this character to perfection ❤
Such a fantastic performance from James Marsters. He hits every beat in the script from comedy to pathos to menace and makes you believe each and every one of them comes from the same character.
Spike is an agent of chaos. Everyone in the Scoobies seems to be happy... Spike rolls in, all sad and depressed...and stirs shit up, spits some facts, causing secrets to be exposed, truths to be faced, people to get hurt. Now nobody in the Scoobies is happy...but Spike gets his mojo back and rolls out of town having a good time!
This is such a staple episode in season three. Spike just nuking everyone’s relationships then going on his way is such a great way to get everything out in the open. I love how Spike is often the catalyst for change.
Spikes hand catching fire, remember when They first moved into the mansion and Spike told Angel that the garden would be perfect if they wanted to catch fire.
Spike sitting down with Joyce to talk about his ex-girlfriend Dru = comedy gold. I just love their new, weird little "friendship." P.S. Mike, you let me down, man... Mikey mentioned fish monsters and you didn't immediately say "I hate fish people." 🤣😉
This is why I like it when guys react to Buffy. When female reactors like Spike, people say it's cause Spike is hot. But this just helps prove that Spike is just an amazingly written and acted character. Yes, he is evil. But he's just super fun and charismatic.
@@JHowesitgoing123 That was my point? People assume that of women reactors when they like Spike. Those people being the anti Spike fans. When guys like Spike, antis are a little quieter.
He's evil yes, but this is a TV show and he's a complex villain who does things for himself only and even if he threatens the crew, we aren't worried. The more lax we are, the more shocked we will be when another death occurs
"They're probably in the factory." "Uh, no. Not there." Later "They're in the factory." Spike/Joyce for the win. Apparently, they put the rebar where Charisma has a scar from getting impaled on rebar as a child. Cordy was hurt badly as she had admitted to Buffy that she loved Xander.
Very solid episode analysis and comments. This is a fun episode that also tackles many of the points of drama that mark Senior year at Sunnydale High. Spike is a great agent of chaos and like the fools/ jesters in classic plays, behind the humor is spot on commentary of what’s going on emotionally with the characters. It’s the fool/ comic relief of Spike that dominates the first half of this episode and then he becomes the herald of truths. You are also absolutely on the mark about Joss Whedon. First he gets you to become involved with the characters. Then he tells a story…. At his pace, not yours. Then he always gives you what you want but it’s always, “ Be careful what you wish for because you’ll be sorry when you get it” Watching Buffy is entertaining, thought provoking. , and painful. Great reactions to a really good year. It’s getting ramped up and the take off is ready. Buckle up and keep up the fun discussions.
Mikey guessed the trolling of Cordelia's death before Buffy said Cordelia was gonna be OK. You don't see that often. The second Xander and Willow stopped looking for a way out and started kissing, they were no longer hostages, in my opinion. *Edit* I had someone thread that they thought this was victim blaming because I didn't expand on it, so here's the expansion of what I mean: My theory is that Xander and Willow, while kissing, didn't feel themselves hostages because they gave into hormones and until something like Spike shows up again, or they stop kissing, or they are rescued, they don't see themselves as hostages, so I think until that status quo changes I don't see them as such, either. That was my point. I found it offensive when this comment assumed victim blaming, but my comment was short enough that I understand the miscomprehension, so I decided to correct the misconception. *End Edit* I love the fact that despite the fact that Spike has kidnapped Willow and Xander, and Buffy and Angel (because of that) feel compelled to tag along, it is the group's own problems that create the sorrowness they feel at the end. Spike leaving town happier than the group (singing along to _My Way,_ showcasing that) is so amusing to me. I call a lot of this season _Becoming_ cleanup, so to hear the first thing Mike says about the episode, "This whole season is oh my, the consequences of my actions" was great. Spike taught Buffy and Angel a lesson about love, but in the process told us his views of love were tying Drusilla up and torturing her until she liked him again. It's amusing considering Buffy's takeaway in breaking up with Angel is that Spike was right.
That depends on who the person is (Spikes idea of wooing Drusilla) It has been shown to us that Drusilla is into BDSM. Not only is her dress very Goth, the way she tortured Angel in What's My Line, but also the way she enjoyed Angel emotionally torturing Spike in the later half of season 2. She very much is into that sort of thing, Spike said.
@@spamfilter32 She's soulless, as well. So she thinks the toxic views of love are great. That doesn't mean either of them are actually in love. It means both of them are soulless. Who they were as human makes them have personalities under their soullessness, but in both Spike and Drusilla's cases, its still just a soulless view of what love is. Not actually love. With Buffy and Angel, they are both going through first love combined with the woes of being in denial. Spike unintentionally helped Buffy by stating a truthfullness about how great he considers his (actually toxic views no matter how great Drusilla thinks it is) views on love to be, while referencing Buffy and Angel's issues, which pulled Buffy out of her denial to the point of breaking up with Angel.
@Buffy8Fan yes, the soulless thing is a very good point. Angel said it himself, he has only ever loved 1 person in his entire life. Spike and Dru, have emotions but not love because they have no soul.
hos·tage [ˈhästij] noun; a person seized or held as security for the fulfillment of a condition That Will & Xander had given up on escaping (considering Xander's condition, it would be highly unlikely on their own) doesn't change that they were being held against their will. "Why didn't you try harder to get away?" is victim blaming/shaming & something done far too often in real life. Deriving comfort from someone who shares ones horrific circumstances is hardly unusual. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with their choice to make out. "...impending death..." isn't a valid excuse for cheating. love [ləv] noun; an intense feeling of deep affection Simple as that. Love in & of itself doesn't include respect or altruism (a healthy relationship, of any kind, will certainly include these things or at least the 1st one). The soul, as far as the BtVS universe is concerned, simply allows one to make altruistic decisions. Soulless beings can love. They simply cannot love selflessly. The Judge himself stated that Spike & Dru shared affection & jealously. Spike said a lot of things about love: that Angel & Buffy were still up to their eyeballs in it, what it is (blood screaming to work it's will), and one of the ways that he & Dru express it (torture). Buffy's takeaway was that she & Angel have been playing with fire and, thanks to Spike, she realized that. She couldn't deny it anymore. Just because Spike was right about some of what he said doesn't mean that he was right about all of it. Buffy is well aware of that. She's simply mature enough to separate the message from the messenger. She acknowledged that she couldn't hide her feelings for Angel from herself (or Spike) & that one can't stop loving another by merely willing it to be so. It takes time & distance. So that's what she decided to do. Angel not wanting to listen is understandable in this case. He's still traumatized from his recent trip to hell & Spike is the last person he wants to listen to in terms of any kind of advice. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
@@becca1189 SPOILERS I know what the two definitions mean. Xander and Willow while kissing didn't feel themselves hostages because they gave into hormones. It had nothing to do with trying to keep fear at bay. Until Spike shows up again, or they stop kissing, or (in ths episode's case) they are rescued, they don't see themselves as hostages, so I don't, either. That was my point. I find it offensive you thought I was victim blaming, but my comment was short enough that I understand the miscomprehension. Still, try not to jump to conclusions. No one ever knows what people think, even after comments are posted. As for Spike and Drusilla. Drusilla's using Spike because Angelus isn't around. That's not love. And Spike being affectionate towards Drusilla doesn't mean love. Your textbook definition of love is just that: the textbook definition. Love is too complex for soulless creature and for the textbook definition. What the textbook definition describes is only a sliver, but not the whole meaning. Spike and Drusilla have emotions and feel effection for one another, but, as stated that's only a small sliver of what the definition truly means. The Judge killed the humanity in creatures and burned them up in the process. That doesn't mean Spike or Drisilla have the ability to love. It means as soulless creatures they have memories of their human selves, ergo humanity. I agree with your last paragraph. I just worded it differently. It still doesn't mean he's in love. It means he has William's comprehension of love. Doesn't mean he comprehends it the way people with souls would or understands it. William doesn't even know beyond what he read in books.
Joss Whedon= the king of giving you what you want in such a way that you no longer want it or it will tear your heart out that you wanted it in the first place
I never understood why no one in the Scoobies thought to revoke Spike's invitation. You know, besides the plot needed him cry into his cup with Joyce 😂
Spike is one of the best characters this show ever made. Just wait to see what he does next. That is saying a lot as all of the characters are really great. Just wait for what is coming . . . .
Thanks guys, great reaction/discussion. This episode is so much fun and so much happens. It is always fun to watch reactors react to the death fake out. If they didn't realize it before, they now know how much they care for Cordy. Congrats to Mikey for catching on so quickly. Spike's mugging behind Joyce while Angel is barred from entering is one of my favorite comic scenes. Lastly, Spike's "I may be love's bitch" monologue is great. Now that Spike has left the Scooby gang in chaos, it'll be fun to watch your reactions on how everything plays out.
1600 was the highest combined score. 800 for the verbal and 800 for the math. Buffy's score was indeed very very good. I took the SAT a few years before they did, and at that time, the avg score for an enrollee at Harvard was 1150. So her score was good enough to get into any school in the country. Her grades and after school activities on the other hand...
Charisma Carpenter actually has a scare in the same place that they had Cordelia impaled because at 5 years-old she fell on some rebar while playing around a pool that was being constructed.
Using guns attracts the attention of law enforcement, which attracts the attention of the Mayor. Nobody on the Supernatural since of Sunnydale wants to come to the Mayor's attention for creating chaos (cops, lights, sirens, people looking, etc.).
This episiode directly compares 2 vampires relationship with Buffy and Angel and says that it's nature is the same and that a vampire without a soul understands them. And the story tells you it's romantic. For the record, let's check what the plot will say later about whether a vampire without a soul can love someone. Let's wait and check.
You do remember that Spike is pure evil, right? And right now he is holding two people hostage. Just try to remember that, before cheering for him joining the gang.
Charisma Carpenter was actually impaled just like this, in the exact same spot by rebar in her youth. Joss Whedon being a sadistic sob, thought it would make good tv, so he had her go through it again in the show. Lol. Later on there's a scene of Cordelia in a bikini and the scar is clearly visible. Sadly, it was edited out of her Playboy photos.
Or genius Joss thought this would be a great opportunity to have a built in explanation if anyone noticed the scar and Charisma happily went along with it so she could wear various outfits on Angel? If you watch her on Baywatch the scar is barely noticeable.
Regarding Spike winning Dru back by torturing her, Drusilla is into BDSM. Although, I get the sense that she is a top only. So this still might not work.
And so Season 3 continues having strong odd-numbered episodes followed by weaker even-numbered eps. This isn't quite as awful as 3.04 or 3.06, though, because they have an excuse: Drusilla WAS supposed to be in the episode, but Juliet Landau bailed at the last minute and they had to rewrite the script. So as excruciating as FIVE CONSECUTIVE SCENES with Spike moaning about Dru is (the monologue about the homeless one the park bench is as blatant a time-stall as you could ever see), there is a necessity exception. And the episode has a few good things: they get some nice comedy about Buffy never having brought Joyce up to date or being so sloppy that she never did the uninvite spell on the house for Spike, even though it really doesn't say much for Buffy. And Xander trying to keep Willow calm during the danger is a thing of beauty…"I won, right? Kicked his ass?" make me go misty, every time. But there's *SO* much contrivance and stupidity. Oz has super-werewolf senses, even in human form? Since when? He's been a wolf for 15 episodes previously, you might have mentioned it. And if he CAN smell Willow, how come he hasn't smelled her all over Xander the past three episodes? And wouldn't his nose be overwhelmed by all the other, nearer, odors, like the fumes from the car and Cordelia's perfume, anyhow? Just a contrivance to get Oz and Cordelia to the factory in time to walk in on the kiss. Whereupon the two of them walk down the stairs perfectly fine, but Cordelia alone then breaks the stairs? The same stairs that Spike carried Willow and Xander down before? So I guess having her heartbroken makes Cordelia instantly gain 300 lbs, is that it? Huh. And remember how Xander was so concussed he couldn't stand up? Well, gosh, here he is Spider-man climbing down the hole 30 seconds later, no problems! Must have been a real temporary concussion, I guess. But the worst part is that Buffy now completely no longer resembles any sort of a Slayer. I do think it's cute that they slide in a reference to Spike raping the shopkeeper's corpse (they haven't been this obliquely naughty since the swim coach got gang-raped to death by his team), but when Buffy finds the police tape on the door, she should have a stronger reaction than a bored "your work?" to Spike. To quote Giles, "It's staking time, surely?" But no, Buffy just lets Spike walk around casually, the whole episode. Threaten to kill MY MOM? No big deal. Kidnap Willow and Xander? Who cares? (To be fair, Buffy seems to NEVER give a shit about Spike nearly killing Willow, since she walked off at the end of "School Hard" leaving Willow trapped in a closet and terrified all night long.) Murder a civilian, even if Buffy doesn't know about the necrophilia? Whoop-de-do, that's what vampires do. And Spike is popular, so we don't want to kill him, we want to briing him back, right? Ooooh, right, Buffy lets the MASS-MURDERING DEMON who KIDNAPPED HER FRIENDS and BROKE HIS WORD ABOUT LEAVING TOWN last time (it hasn't even been SIX MONTHS, you lying piece of shit!) just stroll off (even though she and Angel have a 2-on-1 advantage and she now knows W/X are safe) because Spike gives her some soppy idiotic "wisdom" about "love"???? WHAT-THE -FUCKETY-FUCKETY-FUCK??? And what does Spike know about "love" anyhow? It's canon that Drusilla has ALWAYS preferred Angel (she shagged him practically in front of Spike's face all spring), quite possibly because Spike can't satisfy her sexually (Angel pretty much said that in "What's My Line, part 2" and Drusilla didn't deny it) and now Dru is making out with any demon she can get her hands on (slime and antlers and all) and Spike's plans to win her back are magic and then torture. Yeah, that's definitely True Love. Spike is about as good an authority on sunbathing. And yet, Buffy just lets Love Guru Spike walk off, unbothered, without even TRYING to kill him, because the producers know the audience likes the character. Not even TRYING to keep Buffy (our hero, One Girl in All the World, etc.) consistent. Much as how Oz is spending an ENTIRE YEAR back in high school to chase after his underage girlfriend (interesting thought that Oz was hinting Willow needs to come across with the cooch, Mike…hmm) when Buffy tested out of the 11th grade despite being on the run and wanted for murder. You'd think that Mr "practically a Genius" could knock off that G.E.D before lunch and move on with his life, right? But nope, they just want to have Oz at the High School (even though he is never seen in class with the others) because saying he's at a local college and stops by the Library after class is too much work, or something. The show no longer seems to care about internal consistency because they're too busy pandering to the fans (Spike, Oz, Buffy and Angel again and again and again…), which is clearly a sign of Rot Setting In. No, Spike isn't in the group. Bringing him in would be ridiculous and pretty much kill the show. But clearly Whedon is tempted, which is sad. Of course, if Whedon had any integrity, he would have just left Angel in Hell, since logically the Buffy/Angel story should be over. So perhaps this isn't as incompetent as "Band Candy"…but it is as infuriating. Sigh. "So, Buffy, what happened to Spike?" "Well, he killed a shopkeeper, but we let him go, because he gave Angel and me some relationship advice." "Yeah, if a man who spends a century with an insane woman that doesn't love him back doesn't know about relationships, who does?" "You're not offended that I let a man who assaulted you, kidnapped you and threatened to murder you walk away, are you?" "Also threatened to mutilate me and to rape me. But nah. Your and Angel's relationship is way more important that we measly humans! All hail True Love!!"
I mean, in Becoming Part 2, Buffy only let Drusilla (who killed Kendra, Buffy's fellow Slayer) live because Spike promised he would help her beat Angel and then he and Dru would leave town and "you'll never see us again, I bloody hope!" Instead, Spike left her to die at Angel's hands,, and he's back in town before the first frost. But why should Buffy be mad? It's Spike! Everybody LOOOOOOVES Spike, right? Grotesque what they've done to Buffy (and "Buffy").
@@Jessica_Roth You're free to...yanno...go watch other reactions if this one bothers you so much. Instead of whining about Spike and how his mere existence ruins Buffy.
I think perhaps you've taken the whole "over-thinking" thing to an entirely new Master Level. You obviously have watched the entire series enough to have memorized and deconstructed it completely. But since you've come to the conclusion that you basically hate the show and everything about it, maybe it's time to stop watching the reaction channels.
@@albertcornett7408 I have watched Charmed. Buffy is better because it favors logical character development over cheap, jokey "antics". "Band Candy" is more like Charmed than it is the better episodes of this series. BTW, this series is known for having a reasonably non-toxic fandom. Of course, there are always exceptions…
This episode is awesome. Spike rolls in, breaks up every relationship, and then leaves...
One of the greatest trolling scenes in tv history! lol
The Joyce/Spike relationship is arguably one of the most wholesome ones in the series.
Yeah - Joyce recognises Spike's damaged and needs some care and somehow he brings out her mothering instinct.
James Marsters as Spike is one of the greatest castings of all time. I met JM earlier this year and he is just as charismatic and funny irl as he is in the show
The Cordelia death fakeout has gotta be my favorite moment in reaction history... it gets everyone and its always hilarious LMAO you guys were one of the few that didn't immediately yell "you bitches!"
That funeral scene after Cordelia was possibly fatally injured never gets old! 🤣Spike is also my fav character!
I don't like it because there was no reason for them to ve in a cemetery except to freak out fans. I wish they at least attempted to come up with a BS reason for them to be there.
@@johncampbell756 who was in a cemetery? Buffy and Willow were walking past a cemetery, not inside it. Considering how many cemeteries there are in Sunnydale, it's not unusual to be walking past one. Were you paying attention?
@maruskaehrensdorfer They were inside the walls of the cemetery, on an outer road around the inside walls so you can drive closer to certain sections. That cemetery has walls.
Ahahaha the obligatory, ‘I f’ing hate this show’ reaction to the Cordy fake out 😂 Love Spike roaring into town, wreaks havoc and blasts out of there without a care in the world - JM plays this character to perfection ❤
Such a fantastic performance from James Marsters. He hits every beat in the script from comedy to pathos to menace and makes you believe each and every one of them comes from the same character.
"- we can still be friends!".apparently even vampires hate that expression!
Spike is an agent of chaos.
Everyone in the Scoobies seems to be happy...
Spike rolls in, all sad and depressed...and stirs shit up, spits some facts, causing secrets to be exposed, truths to be faced, people to get hurt.
Now nobody in the Scoobies is happy...but Spike gets his mojo back and rolls out of town having a good time!
That funeral scene always gets people!! 😂
I never understood how Spike wasn't surprised that Angel was still around.
Too drunk and depressed to care 🤷♀
This is such a staple episode in season three. Spike just nuking everyone’s relationships then going on his way is such a great way to get everything out in the open. I love how Spike is often the catalyst for change.
Joe still talking and Mikey’s like, I’ve done the outro, go home, CLICK! 😂
Willow becoming Spike's new Drusilla - nah, that wouldn't work.
Spikes hand catching fire, remember when They first moved into the mansion and Spike told Angel that the garden would be perfect if they wanted to catch fire.
Spike sitting down with Joyce to talk about his ex-girlfriend Dru = comedy gold. I just love their new, weird little "friendship."
P.S. Mike, you let me down, man... Mikey mentioned fish monsters and you didn't immediately say "I hate fish people." 🤣😉
Love this episode! Spike is such a fun character and he made for a great catalyst for all the relationship drama coming to a head
This is why I like it when guys react to Buffy. When female reactors like Spike, people say it's cause Spike is hot. But this just helps prove that Spike is just an amazingly written and acted character. Yes, he is evil. But he's just super fun and charismatic.
Respectfully, not all of us women are that shallow.
@@JHowesitgoing123 That was my point? People assume that of women reactors when they like Spike. Those people being the anti Spike fans. When guys like Spike, antis are a little quieter.
@@beccarosewriter I'll give you that. Very annoying occurrence. Good observation.
He's evil yes, but this is a TV show and he's a complex villain who does things for himself only and even if he threatens the crew, we aren't worried.
The more lax we are, the more shocked we will be when another death occurs
Agree, Spike is attractive but that's nothing to do with why I enjoy his character.
"They're probably in the factory."
"Uh, no. Not there."
Later
"They're in the factory."
Spike/Joyce for the win.
Apparently, they put the rebar where Charisma has a scar from getting impaled on rebar as a child.
Cordy was hurt badly as she had admitted to Buffy that she loved Xander.
Very solid episode analysis and comments. This is a fun episode that also tackles many of the points of drama that mark Senior year at Sunnydale High. Spike is a great agent of chaos and like the fools/ jesters in classic plays, behind the humor is spot on commentary of what’s going on emotionally with the characters. It’s the fool/ comic relief of Spike that dominates the first half of this episode and then he becomes the herald of truths.
You are also absolutely on the mark about Joss Whedon. First he gets you to become involved with the characters. Then he tells a story…. At his pace, not yours. Then he always gives you what you want but it’s always, “ Be careful what you wish for because you’ll be sorry when you get it” Watching Buffy is entertaining, thought provoking. , and painful. Great reactions to a really good year. It’s getting ramped up and the take off is ready. Buckle up and keep up the fun discussions.
Aw Mikey was wiping tears! Hi Spike! Bye Spike! Love how Marsters can go from comical to quite threatening, it is amazing.
"Tell me that you don't love me."
Call back to I only have eyes for you. It's what the boy (James) demands the teacher (Ms. Newman) tell him.
Mikey guessed the trolling of Cordelia's death before Buffy said Cordelia was gonna be OK. You don't see that often.
The second Xander and Willow stopped looking for a way out and started kissing, they were no longer hostages, in my opinion. *Edit* I had someone thread that they thought this was victim blaming because I didn't expand on it, so here's the expansion of what I mean: My theory is that Xander and Willow, while kissing, didn't feel themselves hostages because they gave into hormones and until something like Spike shows up again, or they stop kissing, or they are rescued, they don't see themselves as hostages, so I think until that status quo changes I don't see them as such, either. That was my point. I found it offensive when this comment assumed victim blaming, but my comment was short enough that I understand the miscomprehension, so I decided to correct the misconception. *End Edit*
I love the fact that despite the fact that Spike has kidnapped Willow and Xander, and Buffy and Angel (because of that) feel compelled to tag along, it is the group's own problems that create the sorrowness they feel at the end. Spike leaving town happier than the group (singing along to _My Way,_ showcasing that) is so amusing to me.
I call a lot of this season _Becoming_ cleanup, so to hear the first thing Mike says about the episode, "This whole season is oh my, the consequences of my actions" was great.
Spike taught Buffy and Angel a lesson about love, but in the process told us his views of love were tying Drusilla up and torturing her until she liked him again. It's amusing considering Buffy's takeaway in breaking up with Angel is that Spike was right.
That depends on who the person is (Spikes idea of wooing Drusilla) It has been shown to us that Drusilla is into BDSM. Not only is her dress very Goth, the way she tortured Angel in What's My Line, but also the way she enjoyed Angel emotionally torturing Spike in the later half of season 2. She very much is into that sort of thing, Spike said.
@@spamfilter32 She's soulless, as well. So she thinks the toxic views of love are great. That doesn't mean either of them are actually in love. It means both of them are soulless. Who they were as human makes them have personalities under their soullessness, but in both Spike and Drusilla's cases, its still just a soulless view of what love is. Not actually love. With Buffy and Angel, they are both going through first love combined with the woes of being in denial. Spike unintentionally helped Buffy by stating a truthfullness about how great he considers his (actually toxic views no matter how great Drusilla thinks it is) views on love to be, while referencing Buffy and Angel's issues, which pulled Buffy out of her denial to the point of breaking up with Angel.
@Buffy8Fan yes, the soulless thing is a very good point. Angel said it himself, he has only ever loved 1 person in his entire life. Spike and Dru, have emotions but not love because they have no soul.
hos·tage
[ˈhästij] noun; a person seized or held as security for the fulfillment of a condition
That Will & Xander had given up on escaping (considering Xander's condition, it would be highly unlikely on their own) doesn't change that they were being held against their will. "Why didn't you try harder to get away?" is victim blaming/shaming & something done far too often in real life. Deriving comfort from someone who shares ones horrific circumstances is hardly unusual. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with their choice to make out. "...impending death..." isn't a valid excuse for cheating.
love
[ləv] noun; an intense feeling of deep affection
Simple as that. Love in & of itself doesn't include respect or altruism (a healthy relationship, of any kind, will certainly include these things or at least the 1st one). The soul, as far as the BtVS universe is concerned, simply allows one to make altruistic decisions. Soulless beings can love. They simply cannot love selflessly. The Judge himself stated that Spike & Dru shared affection & jealously.
Spike said a lot of things about love: that Angel & Buffy were still up to their eyeballs in it, what it is (blood screaming to work it's will), and one of the ways that he & Dru express it (torture). Buffy's takeaway was that she & Angel have been playing with fire and, thanks to Spike, she realized that. She couldn't deny it anymore. Just because Spike was right about some of what he said doesn't mean that he was right about all of it. Buffy is well aware of that. She's simply mature enough to separate the message from the messenger. She acknowledged that she couldn't hide her feelings for Angel from herself (or Spike) & that one can't stop loving another by merely willing it to be so. It takes time & distance. So that's what she decided to do. Angel not wanting to listen is understandable in this case. He's still traumatized from his recent trip to hell & Spike is the last person he wants to listen to in terms of any kind of advice. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
@@becca1189 SPOILERS
I know what the two definitions mean.
Xander and Willow while kissing didn't feel themselves hostages because they gave into hormones. It had nothing to do with trying to keep fear at bay. Until Spike shows up again, or they stop kissing, or (in ths episode's case) they are rescued, they don't see themselves as hostages, so I don't, either. That was my point. I find it offensive you thought I was victim blaming, but my comment was short enough that I understand the miscomprehension. Still, try not to jump to conclusions. No one ever knows what people think, even after comments are posted.
As for Spike and Drusilla. Drusilla's using Spike because Angelus isn't around. That's not love. And Spike being affectionate towards Drusilla doesn't mean love. Your textbook definition of love is just that: the textbook definition. Love is too complex for soulless creature and for the textbook definition. What the textbook definition describes is only a sliver, but not the whole meaning. Spike and Drusilla have emotions and feel effection for one another, but, as stated that's only a small sliver of what the definition truly means. The Judge killed the humanity in creatures and burned them up in the process. That doesn't mean Spike or Drisilla have the ability to love. It means as soulless creatures they have memories of their human selves, ergo humanity.
I agree with your last paragraph. I just worded it differently. It still doesn't mean he's in love. It means he has William's comprehension of love. Doesn't mean he comprehends it the way people with souls would or understands it. William doesn't even know beyond what he read in books.
Joss Whedon= the king of giving you what you want in such a way that you no longer want it or it will tear your heart out that you wanted it in the first place
This is one of my favorite episodes. Spike is hands down my favorite character and his scenes with Joyce are gold.
Spike is awesome but Buffy is my favorite. That’s the only correct answer 😏
I never understood why no one in the Scoobies thought to revoke Spike's invitation. You know, besides the plot needed him cry into his cup with Joyce 😂
We didn't see Jenny's funeral, only Buffy and Giles visiting the tombstone. If I remember correctly.
Spike is one of the best characters this show ever made. Just wait to see what he does next. That is saying a lot as all of the characters are really great. Just wait for what is coming . . . .
Thanks guys, great reaction/discussion. This episode is so much fun and so much happens. It is always fun to watch reactors react to the death fake out. If they didn't realize it before, they now know how much they care for Cordy. Congrats to Mikey for catching on so quickly. Spike's mugging behind Joyce while Angel is barred from entering is one of my favorite comic scenes. Lastly, Spike's "I may be love's bitch" monologue is great. Now that Spike has left the Scooby gang in chaos, it'll be fun to watch your reactions on how everything plays out.
1600 was the highest combined score. 800 for the verbal and 800 for the math. Buffy's score was indeed very very good. I took the SAT a few years before they did, and at that time, the avg score for an enrollee at Harvard was 1150. So her score was good enough to get into any school in the country. Her grades and after school activities on the other hand...
Spike and poetry, huh?! Who'd have thought...😉😉
18:26 a sentiment shared by many. And this won't be the last time you feel it 😉
I love this season so much and we haven't even get to the best episodes yet!!! Marsters is so amazing as Spike! Such charisma, such fun!
Charisma Carpenter actually has a scare in the same place that they had Cordelia impaled because at 5 years-old she fell on some rebar while playing around a pool that was being constructed.
such a shame that funeral got in the way of the directors shot. gotta work with the hand you're dealt though i guess.
Using guns attracts the attention of law enforcement, which attracts the attention of the Mayor. Nobody on the Supernatural since of Sunnydale wants to come to the Mayor's attention for creating chaos (cops, lights, sirens, people looking, etc.).
BTW Sunnydale has a remarkable headstone industry - it's already there for the funeral.
Can’t wait for the next episode!!
One of my fave episodes and so is the next one. This season is just full of bangers! Spike makes everything better.
I watched this episode, video and liked it 👍only because it has Spike in it. So 😁
When the homeless person moniologue starts you can see Boreanz lose it.
Spike and Joyce having hot chocolate was just money.
Well, Darla tried to use guns. Two of them. Didn't do much good. Basically, these things never work.
This episiode directly compares 2 vampires relationship with Buffy and Angel and says that it's nature is the same and that a vampire without a soul understands them. And the story tells you it's romantic.
For the record, let's check what the plot will say later about whether a vampire without a soul can love someone. Let's wait and check.
Just wait till season 5
Yay! all caught up. Getting sick sucks 😷
You remember who helped Buffy prepare, right?
Spike has always been my favorite!
You do remember that Spike is pure evil, right? And right now he is holding two people hostage. Just try to remember that, before cheering for him joining the gang.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Charisma Carpenter was actually impaled just like this, in the exact same spot by rebar in her youth. Joss Whedon being a sadistic sob, thought it would make good tv, so he had her go through it again in the show. Lol. Later on there's a scene of Cordelia in a bikini and the scar is clearly visible. Sadly, it was edited out of her Playboy photos.
Oh wow. That's terrible :(!
Or genius Joss thought this would be a great opportunity to have a built in explanation if anyone noticed the scar and Charisma happily went along with it so she could wear various outfits on Angel? If you watch her on Baywatch the scar is barely noticeable.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho your comment contains a spoiler, get that out of here
@@MsKimifer They know about Angel, they've talked about it before, stop the Joss bashing
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho it was a joke, it wasn't inaccurate, and they don't know Cordelia is on his show. You're being a chode.
Regarding Spike winning Dru back by torturing her, Drusilla is into BDSM. Although, I get the sense that she is a top only. So this still might not work.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍
And so Season 3 continues having strong odd-numbered episodes followed by weaker even-numbered eps. This isn't quite as awful as 3.04 or 3.06, though, because they have an excuse: Drusilla WAS supposed to be in the episode, but Juliet Landau bailed at the last minute and they had to rewrite the script. So as excruciating as FIVE CONSECUTIVE SCENES with Spike moaning about Dru is (the monologue about the homeless one the park bench is as blatant a time-stall as you could ever see), there is a necessity exception.
And the episode has a few good things: they get some nice comedy about Buffy never having brought Joyce up to date or being so sloppy that she never did the uninvite spell on the house for Spike, even though it really doesn't say much for Buffy. And Xander trying to keep Willow calm during the danger is a thing of beauty…"I won, right? Kicked his ass?" make me go misty, every time.
But there's *SO* much contrivance and stupidity. Oz has super-werewolf senses, even in human form? Since when? He's been a wolf for 15 episodes previously, you might have mentioned it. And if he CAN smell Willow, how come he hasn't smelled her all over Xander the past three episodes? And wouldn't his nose be overwhelmed by all the other, nearer, odors, like the fumes from the car and Cordelia's perfume, anyhow? Just a contrivance to get Oz and Cordelia to the factory in time to walk in on the kiss.
Whereupon the two of them walk down the stairs perfectly fine, but Cordelia alone then breaks the stairs? The same stairs that Spike carried Willow and Xander down before? So I guess having her heartbroken makes Cordelia instantly gain 300 lbs, is that it? Huh.
And remember how Xander was so concussed he couldn't stand up? Well, gosh, here he is Spider-man climbing down the hole 30 seconds later, no problems! Must have been a real temporary concussion, I guess.
But the worst part is that Buffy now completely no longer resembles any sort of a Slayer. I do think it's cute that they slide in a reference to Spike raping the shopkeeper's corpse (they haven't been this obliquely naughty since the swim coach got gang-raped to death by his team), but when Buffy finds the police tape on the door, she should have a stronger reaction than a bored "your work?" to Spike. To quote Giles, "It's staking time, surely?"
But no, Buffy just lets Spike walk around casually, the whole episode. Threaten to kill MY MOM? No big deal. Kidnap Willow and Xander? Who cares? (To be fair, Buffy seems to NEVER give a shit about Spike nearly killing Willow, since she walked off at the end of "School Hard" leaving Willow trapped in a closet and terrified all night long.) Murder a civilian, even if Buffy doesn't know about the necrophilia?
Whoop-de-do, that's what vampires do. And Spike is popular, so we don't want to kill him, we want to briing him back, right?
Ooooh, right, Buffy lets the MASS-MURDERING DEMON who KIDNAPPED HER FRIENDS and BROKE HIS WORD ABOUT LEAVING TOWN last time (it hasn't even been SIX MONTHS, you lying piece of shit!) just stroll off (even though she and Angel have a 2-on-1 advantage and she now knows W/X are safe) because Spike gives her some soppy idiotic "wisdom" about "love"???? WHAT-THE -FUCKETY-FUCKETY-FUCK???
And what does Spike know about "love" anyhow? It's canon that Drusilla has ALWAYS preferred Angel (she shagged him practically in front of Spike's face all spring), quite possibly because Spike can't satisfy her sexually (Angel pretty much said that in "What's My Line, part 2" and Drusilla didn't deny it) and now Dru is making out with any demon she can get her hands on (slime and antlers and all) and Spike's plans to win her back are magic and then torture. Yeah, that's definitely True Love. Spike is about as good an authority on sunbathing.
And yet, Buffy just lets Love Guru Spike walk off, unbothered, without even TRYING to kill him, because the producers know the audience likes the character. Not even TRYING to keep Buffy (our hero, One Girl in All the World, etc.) consistent. Much as how Oz is spending an ENTIRE YEAR back in high school to chase after his underage girlfriend (interesting thought that Oz was hinting Willow needs to come across with the cooch, Mike…hmm) when Buffy tested out of the 11th grade despite being on the run and wanted for murder. You'd think that Mr "practically a Genius" could knock off that G.E.D before lunch and move on with his life, right?
But nope, they just want to have Oz at the High School (even though he is never seen in class with the others) because saying he's at a local college and stops by the Library after class is too much work, or something. The show no longer seems to care about internal consistency because they're too busy pandering to the fans (Spike, Oz, Buffy and Angel again and again and again…), which is clearly a sign of Rot Setting In.
No, Spike isn't in the group. Bringing him in would be ridiculous and pretty much kill the show. But clearly Whedon is tempted, which is sad. Of course, if Whedon had any integrity, he would have just left Angel in Hell, since logically the Buffy/Angel story should be over.
So perhaps this isn't as incompetent as "Band Candy"…but it is as infuriating. Sigh.
"So, Buffy, what happened to Spike?"
"Well, he killed a shopkeeper, but we let him go, because he gave Angel and me some relationship advice."
"Yeah, if a man who spends a century with an insane woman that doesn't love him back doesn't know about relationships, who does?"
"You're not offended that I let a man who assaulted you, kidnapped you and threatened to murder you walk away, are you?"
"Also threatened to mutilate me and to rape me. But nah. Your and Angel's relationship is way more important that we measly humans! All hail True Love!!"
I mean, in Becoming Part 2, Buffy only let Drusilla (who killed Kendra, Buffy's fellow Slayer) live because Spike promised he would help her beat Angel and then he and Dru would leave town and "you'll never see us again, I bloody hope!"
Instead, Spike left her to die at Angel's hands,, and he's back in town before the first frost. But why should Buffy be mad? It's Spike! Everybody LOOOOOOVES Spike, right?
Grotesque what they've done to Buffy (and "Buffy").
@@Jessica_Roth You're free to...yanno...go watch other reactions if this one bothers you so much. Instead of whining about Spike and how his mere existence ruins Buffy.
I think perhaps you've taken the whole "over-thinking" thing to an entirely new Master Level. You obviously have watched the entire series enough to have memorized and deconstructed it completely. But since you've come to the conclusion that you basically hate the show and everything about it, maybe it's time to stop watching the reaction channels.
If you think 3.06 Band Candy is bad episode then you are a weird Buffy fan. Why are you here except to shit on the show? Go watch Charmed.
@@albertcornett7408 I have watched Charmed. Buffy is better because it favors logical character development over cheap, jokey "antics". "Band Candy" is more like Charmed than it is the better episodes of this series.
BTW, this series is known for having a reasonably non-toxic fandom. Of course, there are always exceptions…