*Thank you all for your contributions. As some of you have mentioned, I didn't include a recording of the fault. As I mentioned the unit showed inconsistent resistance measurements as well as intermittent open-circuits. In order to keep the video short and to the point, I skipped the initial measurement. I will be doing more restoration with DeoxIT in the future and will make sure to show the fault also.*
Neat! I'm guessing that depending on the system, you should sometimes consider deoxidizing the contact surfaces as a temporary solution? Such as if you wear away the protective coating on a BNC (gold and nickel, say) and the underlying contact material(copper bronze?) will oxidize again due to air exposure or what not. Or enough material is removed from mateing the system further so that other "fun" stuff happens after a while.
I have one of those decade boxes but it looks like it's older than yours, the one I have has a wooden box that encases the components and the switches handles appear to be made of bakelite. I still haven't open it to inspect and clean it. Excellent video very interesting and informative.
Spraying liberally on a ceramic switch is not a problem but in older equipment with phenolic switch wafers it can be problematic with the wafers deforming if they get "wet" with too much solution. CAIG makes a 100% solution in a small needle tipped applicator bottle that allows for very precise application of minute amounts of liquid...a little pricey but my bottle has lasted now for many years and is still half full. I use it all the time for example on coax connectors to slightly lubricate the threads to make for easier turning.
We use Rainbow contact cleaner on our older equipment that contains phenolic and bakelite material. It works as well as the DeOxit and does not hurt the insulating materials when they get wet. There are some cases with our older crossbar equipment when we have to soak the whole contact assembly when spraying it. There's no way to just spray the contacts.
I've been using DeOxit for a few years. It's a very good product. I mostly use it on vintage tube gear up to the kV range (oscilloscope restoration) but generally in guitar amps, audio amps, and test equipment. A little goes a long way
I have some 1953 vintage precision resistance decade (0.02%) which has some much bigger multi contact contacts and they recommend cleaning with petroleum and then coating the contacts with vaseline.... I wish I had the equipment to check if that one is still in good condition...
About the only situation I haven't seen Deoxit (previously "Cramolin") perform well in, is a condition where a previous contact lube known as ...rigol was it? (been decades) anyway, a greenish compound that was thinned with toluene. Over time the toluene would outgass leaving a waxlike deposit that was impervious to just about anything you tried to clean it with, even Deoxit. Substance had to be physically wiped from contacts. Used long thin architect erasers or even edges of index cards dragged through points. Deoxit would then perform well.
Pointless? I described the problem thoroughly. Intermittent and non-repeatable resistance values were being observed. This box was in storage for many years before I got it and could not use it as a result. I am not selling DeoxIT, just using it.
I know you are not selling DeoxIT and I'm not questioning your integrity, but only showing the resistor box after applying the stuff and telling how good it is now without showing how bad it was before is not what I'm used to see from you. I rate your videos highly, I support you on Patreon, I just think this could have been done better. If you don't agree that's fine, it's just my opinion.
Interesting how the resistance steadily rose then stabilized after you "zeroed" the multimeter (around the 7:22 mark). I guess it was the cable heating up with the tiny current of the ohmeter (which of course can only be observed because we have so many digits)?
It’s going negative because charge is building up in the leads due to capacitance, the ohms range is a voltage source, so you’re seeing the capacitance of the meter leads.
You should repeat that process on each decade, adding Q-Tips to mechanically remove all Oxydes on the switches. Criterion for 'as-good-as-new' would be a consistent residual ~10mOhm resistance at 000.0000 setting. You might as well use 4W Ohm mode, with four cables attached directly to the boxes jacks, at for low resistances up to 10kOhm. If you're after using that box as sort of resistance standard, please split the 2W cables for readings above 10kOhm, especially @ 1MOhm, as shown. You'll be astonished, how the cable isolation conductivity already affects these high ohmic measurements.. I assume PVC being the isolation material, giving a few ppm error @ 10kOhm, but several 100 ppm already @ 1MOhm. These boxes are really very good, so you should get the most out of them.
I've had a can of CAIG Faderlube F5 for a while now it it works quite well. I also really like their very thin gel "non spill" flux Part No. RSF-R80-2. They sell it in 18kg pails. My 56g will last me forever so I can't see how any manufacturer would need to buy it in such huge quantities :)
Probably an acid. Acids eat oxides and turn them into salts, albeit nasty metal salts that only chemists would call salts. Example 1: circuit board etching with 2HCl+Cu -> CuCl2 + H2. Example 2: "pickling bath," which was historically H2SO4 but more recently HCl, used to remove rust after working steel at high temperature 6HCl + 2Fe -> 3H2 + 2FeCl3. Note that FeCl3 still has enough "bite" in it to etch copper on account of the metals' relative position in the activity series. HCl and Fe so cheap that I doubt the FeCl3 you buy from MG is actually recycled pickling bath, but in principle it could be. Example 3: organic acids produced by heating flux eat the crusty oxide shell off your solder joints letting the solder flow. Example 4: all the silly DIY tutorials about removing rust with lemon juice / vinegar / diet coke / etc (+ heat if they're smart). They're not entirely wrong, but it's a sloooow process compared to what you get with concentrated mineral acids. Rust will literally appear to dissolve into concentrated mineral acids as if it was so much dirt. I have heard that HCl has abnormally good selectivity for eating rust vs the base metal, so if I had to pick, my guess would be that DeOxIt is weak HCl.
if you want an idea of the composition of any product, google for its material safety data sheet or MSDS. Deoxit D5: hosatech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/MSDS-E-D5S-A_v31.pdf Mostly a thin oil, some propellant, and a few percent of "secret sauce". I'm pretty sure if it had a mineral acid in it that would be required by law to be listed on the MSDS, but I'm not an expert.
@W Bailey In the MSDS they disclose the refrigerant (used to generate pressure in the can) and the solvent, but not which acid they're using. It's marked "TRADE SECRET". What is safety next to the need to protect the corporate super-duper-secret-sauce? I'm half tempted to order some deoxit and get a GCMS done, IIRC they're only ~$100-ish. Or free if you know a bored grad student with unmetered access to one, but I don't atm.
Looks like GC/MS has been done, but the first try wasn't able to detect the active ingredient above the halocarbons, and the adventurous individual got discouraged. Pity. www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69169 www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=58725.0
@W Bailey: the MSDS does give us a clue: the exposure limit of the secret sauce is 15ppm, which is above that of mineral acids. On the short list www.osha.gov/dsg/annotated-pels/tablez-1.html 15ppm matches the STEL of acetic acid. Could it be? Lol. If not, I bet it's not too dissimilar, probably an organic acid.
Have a look at this if you want to see some real precision decade switches: I bought one by a photo on ebay, expecting it to be a small box, got quite a surprise when I got it and it was suitcase sized. Not very practical on the bench, but it's satisfying to adjust the fist sized knobs. Ever since I wrecked a Fluke bench meter with leakage from contact cleaner I'm wary of that stuff. I only use polyphenyl ether now, but I guess that Deoxit is better than the acidic stuff I used..
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*Thank you all for your contributions. As some of you have mentioned, I didn't include a recording of the fault. As I mentioned the unit showed inconsistent resistance measurements as well as intermittent open-circuits. In order to keep the video short and to the point, I skipped the initial measurement. I will be doing more restoration with DeoxIT in the future and will make sure to show the fault also.*
Neat! I'm guessing that depending on the system, you should sometimes consider deoxidizing the contact surfaces as a temporary solution? Such as if you wear away the protective coating on a BNC (gold and nickel, say) and the underlying contact material(copper bronze?) will oxidize again due to air exposure or what not. Or enough material is removed from mateing the system further so that other "fun" stuff happens after a while.
Don't the resistors on the decade box go bad after so many years? And they have to be replaced?
The depxit on the right hand that you showed is rap because the type of spray system they used leaks.
I have one of those decade boxes but it looks like it's older than yours, the one I have has a wooden box that encases the components and the switches handles appear to be made of bakelite. I still haven't open it to inspect and clean it.
Excellent video very interesting and informative.
What are these decade boxes used for?
Thank you
General Radio also recommend WD-40 in their service manual, along with Deoxit
Interesting, thanks!
Spraying liberally on a ceramic switch is not a problem but in older equipment with phenolic switch wafers it can be problematic with the wafers deforming if they get "wet" with too much solution. CAIG makes a 100% solution in a small needle tipped applicator bottle that allows for very precise application of minute amounts of liquid...a little pricey but my bottle has lasted now for many years and is still half full. I use it all the time for example on coax connectors to slightly lubricate the threads to make for easier turning.
TrickyNekro he works at bells lab. he is not really a "youtube" engineer.
We use Rainbow contact cleaner on our older equipment that contains phenolic and bakelite material. It works as well as the DeOxit and does not hurt the insulating materials when they get wet. There are some cases with our older crossbar equipment when we have to soak the whole contact assembly when spraying it. There's no way to just spray the contacts.
+TrickyNekro Take it easy dude, you kind of overreacted here. You can tell from the OPs name that English is probably not his native language.
I used exactly that decade resistor box at a place I worked - used it to simulate RTDs and thermocouples. It was incredibly handy.
I've been using DeOxit for a few years. It's a very good product. I mostly use it on vintage tube gear up to the kV range (oscilloscope restoration) but generally in guitar amps, audio amps, and test equipment. A little goes a long way
Works good on noisy pots too.
Great! I've had good results from DeoxIT before.
It's always nice to see a Keithley dmm7510 in use, it's my main DMM now.
I have some 1953 vintage precision resistance decade (0.02%) which has some much bigger multi contact contacts and they recommend cleaning with petroleum and then coating the contacts with vaseline.... I wish I had the equipment to check if that one is still in good condition...
About the only situation I haven't seen Deoxit (previously "Cramolin") perform well in, is a condition where a previous contact lube known as ...rigol was it? (been decades) anyway, a greenish compound that was thinned with toluene. Over time the toluene would outgass leaving a waxlike deposit that was impervious to just about anything you tried to clean it with, even Deoxit. Substance had to be physically wiped from contacts. Used long thin architect erasers or even edges of index cards dragged through points. Deoxit would then perform well.
was "Rigon", not Rigol. lol.
You have a great channel , I'm surprised I missed this video .
But , you should have done a before and after test ?
Nice gear you got there....
without showing the 'before' this is rather pointless...
Pointless? I described the problem thoroughly. Intermittent and non-repeatable resistance values were being observed. This box was in storage for many years before I got it and could not use it as a result. I am not selling DeoxIT, just using it.
I know you are not selling DeoxIT and I'm not questioning your integrity, but only showing the resistor box after applying the stuff and telling how good it is now without showing how bad it was before is not what I'm used to see from you. I rate your videos highly, I support you on Patreon, I just think this could have been done better. If you don't agree that's fine, it's just my opinion.
Interesting how the resistance steadily rose then stabilized after you "zeroed" the multimeter (around the 7:22 mark).
I guess it was the cable heating up with the tiny current of the ohmeter (which of course can only be observed because we have so many digits)?
It’s going negative because charge is building up in the leads due to capacitance, the ohms range is a voltage source, so you’re seeing the capacitance of the meter leads.
Nice!
why is the resistance on the keithley rising ?
mayowa ogundipe I'm guessing that it's due to heating from the test current.
It was actually *falling* (never ignore the minus sign). Which actually makes it a bit harder to explain, heating would be the wrong way around.
It’s building charge due to capacitance in the system. The ohms range sources voltage.
A two-wire measurement? But you have a nice 4-wire meter right there!
You should repeat that process on each decade, adding Q-Tips to mechanically remove all Oxydes on the switches.
Criterion for 'as-good-as-new' would be a consistent residual ~10mOhm resistance at 000.0000 setting.
You might as well use 4W Ohm mode, with four cables attached directly to the boxes jacks, at for low resistances up to 10kOhm.
If you're after using that box as sort of resistance standard, please split the 2W cables for readings above 10kOhm, especially @ 1MOhm, as shown.
You'll be astonished, how the cable isolation conductivity already affects these high ohmic measurements.. I assume PVC being the isolation material, giving a few ppm error @ 10kOhm, but several 100 ppm already @ 1MOhm.
These boxes are really very good, so you should get the most out of them.
I've had a can of CAIG Faderlube F5 for a while now it it works quite well.
I also really like their very thin gel "non spill" flux Part No. RSF-R80-2.
They sell it in 18kg pails. My 56g will last me forever so I can't see how any manufacturer would need to buy it in such huge quantities :)
Maybe for soldered radiator constructions?
you forgot to show us the before measurements
This video is awesome.
Love your vids!
I have also experienced miraculous results, but in most of those cases the issues returned within six months.
great vídeo! wd-40 works too! greetings from Argentina!
Where is the Amazon link?
🤔 assuming the product is dielectric ?
If you mean non-conductive, then yes.
What is it chemically?
Probably an acid. Acids eat oxides and turn them into salts, albeit nasty metal salts that only chemists would call salts. Example 1: circuit board etching with 2HCl+Cu -> CuCl2 + H2. Example 2: "pickling bath," which was historically H2SO4 but more recently HCl, used to remove rust after working steel at high temperature 6HCl + 2Fe -> 3H2 + 2FeCl3. Note that FeCl3 still has enough "bite" in it to etch copper on account of the metals' relative position in the activity series. HCl and Fe so cheap that I doubt the FeCl3 you buy from MG is actually recycled pickling bath, but in principle it could be. Example 3: organic acids produced by heating flux eat the crusty oxide shell off your solder joints letting the solder flow. Example 4: all the silly DIY tutorials about removing rust with lemon juice / vinegar / diet coke / etc (+ heat if they're smart). They're not entirely wrong, but it's a sloooow process compared to what you get with concentrated mineral acids. Rust will literally appear to dissolve into concentrated mineral acids as if it was so much dirt. I have heard that HCl has abnormally good selectivity for eating rust vs the base metal, so if I had to pick, my guess would be that DeOxIt is weak HCl.
if you want an idea of the composition of any product, google for its material safety data sheet or MSDS.
Deoxit D5:
hosatech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/MSDS-E-D5S-A_v31.pdf Mostly a thin oil, some propellant, and a few percent of "secret sauce". I'm pretty sure if it had a mineral acid in it that would be required by law to be listed on the MSDS, but I'm not an expert.
@W Bailey In the MSDS they disclose the refrigerant (used to generate pressure in the can) and the solvent, but not which acid they're using. It's marked "TRADE SECRET". What is safety next to the need to protect the corporate super-duper-secret-sauce? I'm half tempted to order some deoxit and get a GCMS done, IIRC they're only ~$100-ish. Or free if you know a bored grad student with unmetered access to one, but I don't atm.
Looks like GC/MS has been done, but the first try wasn't able to detect the active ingredient above the halocarbons, and the adventurous individual got discouraged. Pity. www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69169 www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=58725.0
@W Bailey: the MSDS does give us a clue: the exposure limit of the secret sauce is 15ppm, which is above that of mineral acids. On the short list www.osha.gov/dsg/annotated-pels/tablez-1.html 15ppm matches the STEL of acetic acid. Could it be? Lol. If not, I bet it's not too dissimilar, probably an organic acid.
Is there signs that they trimmed the resistors?
No, looks like it was done during the initial built.
I wonder how they built that 1 ohm decade then.
never heard of it, I use brake cleaner
I want a precision decade resistor box, but I have no idea why.
You probably just want to twiddle a bunch of knobs.
@@Liny_Fox Yes, that's it!
Me too.
👍👍
Have a look at this if you want to see some real precision decade switches:
I bought one by a photo on ebay, expecting it to be a small box, got quite a surprise when I got it and it was suitcase sized.
Not very practical on the bench, but it's satisfying to adjust the fist sized knobs.
Ever since I wrecked a Fluke bench meter with leakage from contact cleaner I'm wary of that stuff. I only use polyphenyl ether now, but I guess that Deoxit is better than the acidic stuff I used..