I have learnt so much about Tolkien through your videos, they're so informative! But to be honest, I keep coming back to listen to them mostly because they're just so comfortable to listen to. Your passion and presentation make for wonderful company whilst I'm relaxing and doodling away in the evenings. So thank you for making these, and I hope this comment keeps the algorithm favorable to your works!
@@Jess_of_the_Shire Agree with the above comment. your speech pattern delivery makes your explanation of the lore so pleasurable to listen to. It's kind of musical. You should sing in Elvish again! I think that one was my favorite.
I've always preferred monsters and villains that have motivations and complexities and purposes of their own, rather than being mere hurdles to overcome. But there is something simple and satisfying about a hidden monster beneath the water.
The Zeno Clash series may supply on that front. That game series is full of monsters and freaks, and actual humans are rare. But it's not a big thing because nigh all Zenos are so bizarre and weird and different from one another, that there's not much point in trying to make a distinction between species and subspecies and the like. It's not really a story about heroes and villains. Just about the way things are in Zenozoik. About a secret that a parental figure is keeping, which the protagonist named Ghat -- who still dearly loves this matriarch/patriarch-- has learnt about. But out of fear of him revealing this information, the rest of his Family is sent after him to keep him away from the civilized world. Doesn't help that, you know, he actually blew up the patriarch/matriarch with a bomb at the beginning of the first game. There's another group of people who choose to go insane and become maniacs that obsess over a single ludicrous thing in their lives. Such as walking in a straight line forever. Wanting to become invisible and thus clawing out the eyes of every living thing near them. Teaching other people how to fight. Peeing yourself and dying. Trying to become a tree. Turning things upside-down and inside-out. Only eating things that end in Y. The reasoning is that, letting go of *all* mental inhibitions and limits, all worries about surviving and feeding yourself, all sense of anger or resentment or attachment to anything in life, makes you truly free. And from there you choose something that you decide will give your life fulfillment. In the words of one of these people, "if you are satisfied and do what you feel you must do, then you have reached perfection." The second game has themes of what happens when someone more developed tries to enforce law and morals on this anarchic, nigh prehistoric society. And the prequel Clash: Artifacts of Chaos takes place when there *was* a single law, however strange. People didn't necessarily like it and the only "enforcers" were the queen's bodyguards who pretty much stayed at the palace, but the Zenos obeyed it nonetheless. Because it's the One Law, and you can't just not obey the Law. It would be like saying trees don't grow leaves-- that's not how it works. Fascinating series. It being a monster world where a cow man can wear a human's face as a hood with nobody batting an eye, or a flabby-skinned meatball man has an addiction to rooster blood, makes it all the more intriguing to see what manner of creature is around the corner.
Jordan Peterson would have a field day responding to this comment, and how the meta-category of unseen predators - that are hyperreal - lurks in our subcouncious and our imagination fills the gap in knowledge with far more dreadful and scary things that could potentialy harm us than any actual (real) predator like a simple lion or wolf. It's also why the cosmic horror of Lovecraft fascinates people on a much deeper level than the mundane horror of being chased with a knife by some maniac or the very "human" horror of a villain like Raskolnikov.
When I was a kid and read "Goblin-men," for some reason, I processed it as Orcs are twisted Elves, and Goblins are twisted humans. So for decades I thought goblins were corrupted humans that the Dwarves faced in the Hobbit, while Orcs were corrupted elves that the fellowship faced in LOTR, and Uruki were the offspring of goblins and orcs mating. It made so much sense in my young mind that it blew apart when I learned the truth 10yrs ago.
@@brandonmunsen6035 Imagine coming to a video about LotR lore and then telling someone that a bit of LotR lore is "not that big of a deal". Why are you here if it's not important to you?
@@HolyMith ability to maintain separation of fantasy from reality is important. learning that a notion about a personally beloved fictional story was incorrect should not be mind-blowing at all unless there are serious real issues at play. wasn't all that far off from the actual book lore in any event. it's like finding out the words to "blinded by the light" aren't the words you've been singing. embarrassing maybe. mind-blowing? it' just that big of a deal, certainly not enough for your vicarious outrage in support of a stranger who is "confessing" an error of knowledge. i used to be able to quote the the passage about the breaking of the gates of minas tirith off by heart on command. it was the most moving prose in the whole story, for me. can't now. it's not that big of a deal. i'm disgusted with what the movies did to the books, but my mind was not blown by their violation of my favourite novel. i expected it. it's friggin' hollywood. it's not that big of a deal. as for what amazon has done to the "lore" ? might as well have erased the mona lisa and repainted it with cat vomit, but is it worth freaking out about? didn't subject myself to the torment of watching, so i was never emotionally invested in the tripe. it ain't that big of a deal. it's possible to love and enjoy something without it being an all-consuming passion, let alone an opportunity to virtue signal.
Jess of the Shire, as someone who read many fantasy and sci-fi books before even discovering LOTR - I must say, you have a serious grip on the lore and overall feel of so much of this legendary work of Tolkien! Amazing videos packed with information and insight! Thank you!
Tolkien's evolving ideas about the potential for Orcs to be redeemed has made them my favorite. I have this whole elaborate head-canon that I've been writing out, about Orcs in east who managed to rebel against the Darkness, and live relatively good lives.
As a child, Smaug was my favourite, because dragons are inherently very cool. When I became an adult, I started to really sympathise with the orcs. I didn't even know Tolkien was ambivalent about them (back when I was reading LotR for the first time, there was no internet as it exists now and I didn't have access to all the extra material that is prevalent now), it was more something I came to alone in reading the book. I could see why people thought they were "simple evil", but every time orcs are talking amongst themselves, you get this picture of their lives that is so sad. They are soldiers and nothing more. They complain about their superiors and while they have names, they are identified by command as just numbers. They are compelled into contest and competition with each other and have poor provisions to their front lines. They also don't want to really *be* on those front lines. They want victory, because maybe that will give them some breathing room, but they also know that war and the front line is a meat grinder from which they probably won't return. I've often wondered what life looks like for the future of the orcs, without Sauron literally invading their minds and punishing any dissention at a whim. I don't think they would turn into fluffy cottagecore uwu babies, but I do wonder what thousands of generations of continuous trauma would produce in terms of a society of their own. Would they be draconian victorians, where almost every crime is punished by death or humiliation? Where the rich exploit the poor? I dunno. But it's very interesting to think about. And that's why orcs are my faves.
Old English expert here! The pronunciation the digraph in is difficult to explain. The sounds like the letter A in "can", and the is like the letter A in "calm", and you glide quickly between the two. (The is voiceless like in "miss".) The pronunciation of in is like German Ü, it's like a letter i but with your lips rounded. And the letter "thorn", , is like a modern TH. The was probably a tap or a trill like in the modern Scottish accent. I hope that gives you all the information to pronounce them next time! :)
I assume this is American pronunciations of can and calm? I gave it a go with an American accent and it sounds a bit like me (English) saying "near". I don't know if ea has changed much from old English to modern English over here so maybe it's not supposed to, but perhaps it could be easier to explain as putting on an English accent? The amount of smoothing (I don't know the proper word) between the two varies by accent but it is two sounds everywhere.
@@biscuit715 Interestingly, the "American" English pronunciations and inflections of words spoken in the Appalachian, Midwest, and on the fringes of the upper Southeast areas of the country represent a "purer" form of English as it was spoken in the 18th, 19th, and the very early 20th century, although the English spoken in Britain was changing rapidly during that latter era. Tolkien did research on traditional Kentuckian and Tennessean family names and dialects, and used them as templates for his Hobbits, especially with regard to place names and how the etymology and phonetics of place-words changed over time, such as how the Baranduin River of the Second Age, became the Brandywine River by the time the Hobbits enter the story.
These long form videos are so awesome. I love to listen to your videos while I'm cleaing/cooking/doing literally anything, like a podcast. I know they don't do too well in the algorithm, but any long form content you out out is an 11/10 in my book Your channel has really given me a deeper understanding of Tolkien and helped me form my own opinions about his work. I'm so glad the algorithm let me find this channel because it's like a little escapist haven for me to go into. I hope you continue to do what you do and I hope your channel continues to grow, because you deserve all the success you can get.
I'm so glad to have caught another of your videos. You do such a bang up job with your descriptions, emphasis and story telling . I never would've guessed that there was THIS much( more) nuance to one of my favorite stories of all time.
Your description of Gandalf's succumbing to the will of Iluvatar being what ultimately allows him to return as Gandalf the White gave me chills lol I hadn't looked at it from the angle of Gandalf having ultimate faith in Erus plan (which also contrasts Saruman, the former white, who lost faith) for the fellowship to succeed without him being what gets him "promoted" so to speak
I liked the D&D campaign satire where a dragon is hunted by the players, only for the players to discover that the dragon has discovered investing and that there isn't any gold to be found in the lair.
I know there is this story of Tolkien having doubts about making Orcs be twisted Elves- as it would mean that even foul creatures have an eternal soul- but to me it seems like the most truthful concepts he could have come up with. Its the idea that all things are good in the beginning.
It was Gandalf who outwitted the trolls, not Bilbo. Gandalf mimicked their voices, and got them arguing among themselves. And as for Stone Giants, Gandalf actually considers looking for a useful one, implying that they are real. And when they do appear later, they aren't fighting, but simply playing a game of catch with boulders. Too many people, Jackson included, misunderstand the phrase "thunder battle" to literally mean that the giants were fighting. The phrase simply refers to a clash between two storm fronts in the mountains.
Or perhaps they were more akin to ogres, which Tolkien mentioned briefly in The Hobbit. And since they didn't seem to be followers or servants of The Shadow, at least not by the end of the Third Age, they were probably no longer under the sway of evil. They seem to be simple minded souls who keep to themselves.
@@StuartistStudio1964 yeah agreed I always pictured the stone giants to be like ents but made from stone, not caring about the woods but about their mountains.
Werewolves do appear in LOTR - - the Fellowship of the Ring is attacked by them after the Fellowship descends from the failed attempt to cross the pass over Caradhras, and are the reason that the Fellowship risks entering Moria. Gandalf even calls the werewolf leader "Hound of Sauron." When the werewolves attack the Fellowship many are slain, but no bodies are found the following morning, and the arrows of Legolas are all recovered, except the last one which was set afire by Gandalf's fire-spell.
Indeed. He literally say they were no ordinary wolves hunting in the wilderness. The incantation of the spell he uses against them is "Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurhoth!" Which roughly means, "Fire to save us all! Fire against the werewolves!" Ngaurhoth meaning werewolf/werewolves.
@@PiraticalBob werewolves are spirits in wolf form. That's why after that particular battle there are no bodies left behind. Legolas remarks that he killed four, but his arrows look as if they hadn't been used.
This is going to sound weird, but I wanted to compliment your makeup for this video. Especially the under-curve and over-curve of the sparklies around your eyes. That was a very nice touch and fits in nicely with my concept of elves. I also wanted to thank you for not including Beorn as one of the monsters, even though technically he is since he's a "were-bear," except he's one of the good-guys. Oh, almost forgot, the Eagles are the counterpoint of the Fell Beasts of the Nazgul, morally and evolutionarily, being giant feathered birds where the Fell Beasts are featherless pterosaurs, intelligent where the Fell Beasts are not, and only accept passengers by their own volition where the Fell Beasts are mere animal steeds. My philosophy is that horses are partners, not pets, and even Bill the pack horse is a fine example of this. There is a difference between intelligent partners from the animal kingdom, and non-intelligent animals used as basically slaves without volition or personality. JRRT seems to have understood this concept, even as badly as I have expressed it here. --Dan
The Watcher in the Waters is unquestionably terrifying, in part because Tolkien never actually tells us what it is. "Watcher in the Waters" is simply what it does, not what it is. You might say it's an octopus, but that's primarily just because it has tentacles. Tolkien might just as well have described these appendages as "giant cilia," in which case we'd probably never guess that it's an octopus. I think, though, the most fascinating of his monsters are the orcs, and the goblins before them. I say that because they are so very human-like, albeit the very worst of humankind. And they have language, both their own and the Common Tongue. I can't think of another monster in LotR that can speak, although the trolls spoke in The Hobbit. I remember when I was a small child and my father was reading the books to me (The Hobbit, not LotR, I think). One night I was terrified by a lightning storm after I went to bed, and my mind made some sort of connection to orcs, or goblins -- NOT to trolls, although in The Hobbit the lightning storm in the Misty Mountains was specifically caused by trolls.
As to the Orcs, here is my take: What if the elves and orcs, being wholly opposite each other are there to provide bookends to mankind? To illustrate that Men have the capability to become like either one - Elf or Orc. And it is this ability that sets Men apart from both. But I dont know.
What a wonderfully put together video. Gotta say the orcs are probably my favorite. A tragic race created to do harm and never shown any other way of life.
The story of Aule and the dwarves is one of the most emotional things Tolkien ever came up with. He created them but couldn't give them life, and then when Eru got on to him he prepared to destroy them, and then Eru gave them life and a place in creation. Because Aule made them out of love, and Melkor was always working out of ego.
Notably, the Dwarves are given life just as Aule is about to strike them with his hammer, and he notices them cowering, something they wouldn't do without the fire of life. The scene is almost reminiscent of Abraham and God in the Bible, really.
I was very sad the barrow wights were cut out of the movie. Favorite Tolkien monsters include the aforementioned barrow wights, Smaug, and those ogres. Outside of Tolkien I love Medusa, the Kraken, and the sirens of green myth. While I certainly appreciate the archetypes of big, bad, monsters for the hero to fight, I do have to say that the first time I heard the notion of having tea with a dragon, I was sold on the idea that not every monster needs to be bad, some can even be redeemed if they were bad. Redemption stories are among my favorite and if you can include a monstrous creature in that redemption, I’m here for it.
You may find something interesting in the Oddworld and Zeno Clash series. For Zeno Clash, most inhabitants of Zenozoik, as the land is called, are monstrous, freakish and horrible for our standards. Inspirations range from Hieronymus Bosch paintings and the Drolatic Dreams of Pantagruel, to more obscure prehistoric animals. All Zenos are quite different from one another and the few creatures we'd recognize as humans aren't considered any more special than any other Zeno. Zenozoik is not exactly a welcoming world-- you do need to know how to fight. There's no law to protect you or central authority to appeal to within the single city that exists and the wildlife can be dangerous too. But there's so few settings that are fully, or close to near-fully inhabited by monsters and Zenozoik is one that I hold close to my heart alongside Oddworld. Oddworld itself is much more developed, more alien, and sadly a capitalist dystopia with a strict caste system and entire peoples being enslaved by industry-inclined races in the name of profit. It gets to the point of wildlife being hunted to extinction for food products in big, horrible farms and butcheries, and the higher-ups decide that the next logical step for making quick profit is using the slave caste as the main ingredient for a new food line. Thusly, the main character Abe sets out to escape, and later learns from a shaman of how his people had at one point in time a strong connection to nature and mysticism. Now forgotten and forced away by the industrial races. Now he has to be a saviour, and hopefully with minimal casualties along the way. Tough job for a guy who gets frightened easily and regularly risks being shot, mauled, exploded, crushed etc Abe's not the only protagonist in the Oddworld series, though. There's Munch, an amphibian frog-like creature who seeks to safeguard the last remaining eggs of his species, and Stranger, a bounty hunter resembling a cross between a lion and a gorilla who needs money for a life-saving surgery. But there's more to him than simply being a fighter, and likewise ties into a sense of heritage. The creation story of Brütal Legend can be interesting too. It is thanks to primordial monsters that their world came to be, in the first place. The First Ones were so hideous that they desired the dark to hide in, from each other and themselves-- but one day, a horrific beast by name of Ormagöden came into the land, made of flesh and metal, blazing like an angry sun, roaring all the way. And his light forced the hateful First Ones to see themselves as they truly were. Ormagöden was lured into a trap thanks to a beautiful singing creature by name of Aetulia being used as bait to lure him in. From there, the First Ones tried to douse his flames with mud, but rather than letting himself be killed, Ormagöden destroyed himself. His Blood became a flood that drowned the First Ones and eventually the oceans, his Fire shot into the sky where it became the sun, his steel Flesh shot into the earth and enriched it with minerals of all sorts, while the Noise of his dying roar persists to this day in the form of music. Monsters are fuppin' awesome.
Fascinating, thank you. Yes these are longer than than the typical RUclips video, but great content. The only suggestion I'd have is a two parter to better fit into their preferred parameters. Gosh, I haven't read Beowulf since college...a lifetime ago! Thanks again, Jess.
I'm glad you gave Frodo one of his moments of heroism -- in the Barrow. Could you put together a video that showcases his Crowning Moment of Awesome -- his defiance of the Riders at the Fords of Bruinen? *** Frodo heard the splash of water. It foamed about his feet. He felt the quick heave and surge as the horse left the river and struggled up the stony path. He was climbing the steep bank. He was across the Ford. But his pursuers were close behind. At the top of the bank the horse halted and turned about, neighing fiercely. There were Nine Riders at the water's edge below, and Frodo's spirit quailed before the threat of their uplifted faces. He knew of nothing that would prevent them from crossing as easily as he had done; and he felt that it was useless to try to escape over the long uncertain path from the Ford to the edge of Rivendell, if once the Riders crossed. In any case, he felt that he was commanded urgently to halt. Hatred again stirred in him, but he had no longer the strength to refuse. Suddenly the foremost Rider spurred his horse forward. It checked at the water and reared up. With a great effort Frodo sat upright and brandished his sword. "Go back!" he cried. "Go back to the Land of Mordor, and follow me no more!" His voice sounded thin and shrill in his own ears. The Riders halted, but Frodo had not the power of Bombadil. His enemies laughed at him with a harsh and chilling laughter. "Come back! Come back!" they called. "To Mordor we will take you!" "Go back!" he whispered. "The Ring! The Ring!" they cried with deadly voices, and immediately their leader urged his horse forward into the river, followed closely by two others.. "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair," said Frodo with a last effort, lifting up his sword, "You shall have neither the Ring nor me!"
The fact that scene wasn't in the Peter Jackson film is an absolute shame. Heck, his attempt to attack the Ringwraiths at the base of Weathertop in the book was another point of heroism; unlike the film, he throws himself at the Witchking while calling out "Elbereth", but is simply outmatched. Though his desperate attack is probably what saved him, forcing the Witchking's stab to hit his shoulder rather than his heart.
I'm so so glad youtube recommended your channel. I love your content so much as someone who loves lord of the rings I truly enjoy your videos so freaking awesome.
Nice informative video! I've come to like the orcs specifically because if they have life like the children of Ilúvatar, then their story is a tragic one. Taken by the dark powers and twisted into a life of constant fighting and being hunted, not given the chance to be redeemed, probably the most "good" of the orcs sticking by their friends or slinking into a cave or forest not to disturb anyone. It gets even worse considering how death works in Tolkien's universe, since they might be derived from elves, even in death the most likely outcomes is they follow the counter-call of Morgoth or they're stuck to the world as houseless-spirits. I feel people overlook orcs/goblins a lot since they have interesting histories too, the Misty Mountain orcs escaping Beleriand's fall to hide in caves, the Eastern Orcs carving out their own petty independent realms before Sauron rose to power. And despite the fact that they suffer great losses (somewhat cause of themselves as well), they can spring back and survive on whatever they can find.
Wait, can we revisit were-worms for a second? I do love how often Tolkien’s understanding of evil is beautifully embodied in the behavior and origins of his monsters. It’s such a thoughtful approach to his creatures.
One curious thing about goblins in The Hobbit is that they are not a primitive species, given their obsession with machinery, fire and explosions. Also, the area in the vicinity of the Black Gate is described as an industrial wasteland, implying that Mordor under Sauron might be quite advanced in the terms of technolgical development. Unfortunately, Tolkien wasn't too specific about the society of Mordor except saying that it was based on slavery and that Orcs themselves hated Sauron as much as they hated Men or Elves, and without him they woud just turn to banditry. An interesting thing though. There's no orcish atrocity in the book that couldn't be matched by the things humans have done to each other irl throughout the history. Seems like Tolkien took all the things he hated in humanity (greed, uncontrolled industrial development, destruction of nature, war, especially his own WW1 experience) and projected them onto the Orcs and Mordor.
I just remembered something...in days of old in England specifically, a 'wolf's head' was an outlaw...a person that could be killed on sight, like a wolf, and who had a bounty on his life. Further, the wolf is extinct in the British Isles.
25:47 This is why i think the line spoken by Barbosa in the 1st PotC truly made it an almost epic story of modern time. Barbosa describing how they could not be satiated, made them truly scary. Something with no cesation, is scary, no appeasing, no satisfying, is truly scary. The minds, of some of man.😱
My favorites are Ungoliant and Shelob. They are not just "spider creatures", they are alien (in the broader sense of the word). The scene where Ungoliant sucks the light, the sap, of the Trees is so horrific and sad. Perfection
Smaug and Shelob are my favorites for what they represent and how they challenge the characters and themes... but then Ungoliant is just on a whole other level of cosmic horror that's way more interesting to me than the usual suspects of that genre.
Say what you will about Warner Brothers, but the Shadow of Mordor games did an amazing job fleshing out the Orcs. It pulls no punches about how violent and dangerous they are and how even when theoretically freed from Sauron's influence most won't hesitate to turn on you when they think they can get something out of it, and yet there are many others who are capable of finding contentment in being given a purpose beyond wonton destruction and even developing a sense of friendship. Even without Celebrimbor's powers cutting them off from the Dark Lord, there are still hints some are capable of questioning their lot in life and all of them have their own personalities.
In norse mythology there is actually a mention of a witch riding a wolf who comes to the aid of the gods. When they almost paralyzed with grief are unable to launch Baldir's burial ship out unto the sea, they ask the witch Hyrokkin for help. And she arrives at the beach riding a dire wolf and with her sorcery she succeeds in setting Baldir's burning ship afloat. Interrestingly, there is a depiction of a female figure with snakelike hair riding a wolf on a stone that was part of a stonemonument (including runestones) that consisted of at least eight stones found in southern Sweden. That female image has been interpreded as a depiction of Hyrokkin.
5:40 It's paraphrased, but I absolutely LOVE the delivery of this in the old animated Hobbit. Especially the way his stomps emphasize the growing "strong, strONG, STRONG!!"
Maybe this is 'basic' of me, but I just love Orcs and Goblins. There's an indie tabletop game called Boglanders, and the source book opens with a short essay about the history of Orcs and Goblins in literature and pop culture. There's something about them that's historic yet ubiquitous.
I think the fact that the orcs aren't completely evil, makes the perspective make the difference. the picture of the enemy is always presented by the victor of the war, and often twisted into the foulest form. I think that his writing them as evil from the perspective of the characters makes perfect sense based purely on the fact that for the characters they ARE monsters, they ARE evil for the characters; and yet he also still gives a hint of the fact that they aren't as purely evil as the characters think, through their own speech. it's the same as hearing history of a war through the victors of the war, while also hearing the reasoning of a normal soldier from the opposing side; it makes the other side's view less shallow and more human, helping you empathize with their struggle. ^I actually think this is something not done enough in literature, no, you don't ALWAYS need a motivation for the evil lord, but the pawns he's controlling, they are people, they may not agree, they may not even want to be on his side, but they have little agency to change their position. humanize the pawns, humanize the soldiers under the villains, give them a reason to be trapped and manipulated, help people to feel empathy for their situation, and they are suddenly no longer faceless masses.
I love longer form videos, I can have them on in the background and soak up that Tolkien goodness (or badness in this case) while doing other things. Definitely keep making more of this format, the father of modern fantasy deserves a full treatment of his work! Also, my favourite monster in the legendarium are the Nameless Things, only mentioned in passing by Gandalf after his plummet into the darkest pits of Moria. If he isn't being deliberately theatrical, they may be of the same caliber of creature as Ungoliant - older than the arrival of the Valar and created from the void rather than the direct action of Illuvatar or the Ainur. Very Lovecraftian and suitably terrifying. Edit: I forgot to mention that the Watcher may have been one of these things, as Gandalf theorises it made its way up from the aquifers beneath Moria and into the lake outside the secret door.
The inspiration for the Barrow-wights is likely the Draugar of Norse mythology. Draugar are undead creatures that lurk in barrows and tombs, guarding their treasure. An alternate name for them (or possibly a type of them) is Haugbui, which writers have sometimes translated as "Barrow-dweller" or "Barrow-wight."
I love the way you structure your videos into sounding like the beginning of an epic story and bridge it to become almost like an interesting lecture. ❤!
Great video! You clearly put a lot of work and thought into it. It's well thought out and touches on each monster's unique relationship to the themes and philosophies of Tolkien's writings in a very well done manner. Dragons are among my favourites, but, though they were not mentioned, Nazgûl are hands down my favourites. Their limited number and "undead" nature probably puts them and Barrow-wights in the same broad category, but the idea behind them is, in a way, similar to that of Orcs, being beings twisted into tragic monsters, though for the Nazgûl it is through exploiting their hubris and weakness rather than the more horrible origins of the Orcs.
Good job!!! 👹👺🐲🐉 I'd consider Gollum to be a monster. I'd think that he were my "favorite". Amongst the others, I'd think probably Smaug, who was capable of a conversation, was my favorite.
I was a young man, back in the ice ages, when last I read LOTR. I've come to think of them as long-winded and not very psychologically deep, but your words about Tolkien pulling at the threads of his own creation has made me want to reread - I did love these stories once and maybe I could again, thanks
I always thought of the watcher in the water as some aspect of the balrog; Gandalf says of their battle that when "his fire was quenched, but now he was a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake".
Regarding the Orcs, what people often fail to realize is that them not being entirely evil, just as the Haradim men were not, was always the point. And I personally think this is due to a lack of understand of IRL history, One of the cited inspirations other than the Mongols for the Orcs was the Ottoman army. And of the Mongols, Tolkien cited the Timurid-era Mongols as chief amongst the inspirations. For those unaware, the reason why these inspirations are so important to understanding the Orcs, is because both the Ottomans and the Timurids employed literal SLAVE ARMIES. In the same way the Easterlings, Variags, and Haradim represent imperial levies forced to fight on behalf of colonial overlords, the Orcs are people conditioned as slave soldiers for Morgoth and Sauron, albeit more genetically/morphologically as opposed to sociologically (although that happens too). Hell, we get a glimpse of what they probably did through Saruman's creation of the Uruk-Hai. Orcs past the first generation had very little chance to escape their lot as janissaries/mamelukes/habshis of Morgoth, and that emphasizes just how unforgiveable Morgoth, Sauron & Sarumans crimes are, even beyond their other atrocities. They force the allied resistance groups to cleave through fellow victims of their depredations to preserve their own freedom.
It's a long time since I read the Hobbit, but I think their was an explenation in it that orcs/goblins transformed over time into evil man who create wapons and start wars but beside that are nowadays indistingtable from humans. I somehow liked this explenaton and always wondered why Tolkien didn't stick with this explenation for the orcproblem.
Your videos are just so cozy. You and Nerd of the Rings are my Tolkien comfort channels, especially when doing Middle Earth themed things, like building Barad Dur in LEGO or importing the LOTR audiobooks I got from the library into my computer. Have a great day, you deserve it!
You brought up a good point. Evil isn't a thing in and of itself and not an absence of but a perversion of good things. Evil can't exist without good to feed on, twist, and corrupt. The idea that evil is a void like a black hole or something is brilliant. I could talk more on this, but not now. Will say this to you though. Good work.
I wonder if Tolkien was aware of Lovecraft? The Watcher and Balrogs are very much Eldritch horror, IMO. Great video, your guest star was a true delight and very insightful. Amazing thoughts and great work went into this and it shows.
I was thinking the very same thing. I have thought that the Watcher, which is tangential to the main storyline of TFOTR, has its parallel in the 'huge, formless white polypous thing with luminous eyes' that is legendary to the squatters who live south of New Orleans in 'The Call of Chthulhu.' In neither case do we know how these monsters relate to the established baddies in their respective stories, they are just there, which makes their presence all the more unsettling.
Great episode! Thank you for the legwork you put into these "encyclopedia" episodes, and for the inspired readings and interpretations. I may have caveats, addendums, or my own personal takes on some of these things, but that takes nothing away from what you have assembled from your own point of view.
No justification for the treatment of orcs needs to be sought. There is not one instance I can recall (in canon) in which an orc gave quarter, offered mercy, showed pity, or sought to change their ways. Orcs might be capable of redemption, but do not seek it. Had such a thing occurred in the narrative, I would like to believe that the free peoples of the west would reciprocate accordingly. While at the same time not forgetting the lesson of whatever is middle-earth's equivalent of the fable of the scorpion and the toad.
Very true. Jess seems to be confusing "they are forced to be evil" for "they are not actually that evil". Which isn't true. They are all evil. It's not their fault but that doesn't change the fact that they are monstrous and must be destroyed.
They are evil. Nobody disputes that. The question is: are they irredeemable evil? If they were good at first, and then they went corrupted, it is not possible to bring them back? In other words, is corruption only one-way in Tolkien's world?
@@tilltronje1623 Not even sure about this. For some reason the ainur at the end of the first age didn't try to undo this most wicked of Morgoth evils. If there would have been a way for them, I think they would have done it. On the other hand, you never know, there may be a plan even for them in Iluvatars grande scheme?
I don't know if it's canon or not, but it is believed that the Watcher is a RUclips reactor, who got it's name from watching movies and TV shows... Also, some barrows were portable. Surely you've heard of wheelbarrows? (Don't forget to tip Jess)
I find that the Orcs in the Lord of the Rings seem less evil than some heroes in Game of Thrones, and Presidents of some super powers in the real world 😁
I like Dragons, they'll always be one of my favorites, even if they're not really a Tolkien creation. I just think Smaug is a very cool character tbh. Here's to hoping you make a sequel video!
the orcs were captured elves (and some possibly seduced elves?) ruined by morgoth. morgoth's tendency was to infuse his mockeries of creation with his essence. thus, he diminished his own personal power, but infused his slaves and creations with his evil. obviously, as gandalf stated in the fellowship of the ring when asked to do some "magic", he had to to have something to work with. what means he used to warp and ruin elves into orcs are not known because tolkien didn't got into it. the dragons have terrible intelligence and power. i think they're like balrogs. maiar who followed and served morgoth who willingly became fixed creatures within the world, rather than remain spirits of malice, which must have required tremendous sacrifice of being, seeing as they die, and their spirit clearly leaves the confines of the world, likely to join morgoth in the void, although sauron didn't seem to vanish into nothingness within the world like that bloody witch king did.
I've tried to start Fellowship a few times, I suck at reading and it's a lot to take in. But, and I'm sure you've heard this, I would love an audiobook of you reading the books!! You have the perfect voice and passion for the stuff
Beowulf was one of my favorite book reports in HS! I learned my love for such writing from reading the original Hobbit in Elementary school. I was told "oh dear! That book prolly too advanced for you." "I wants it!"😅 I didn't say it like Smeagul! I am however very glad the librarian allowed me to check it out! It greatly expounded on my vocabulary, and whilst troublesome at times, I was enthralled! And thus began my life long love of the fantasy genre!🥰
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Having a favorite Tolkien dragon and having that dragon be Chrysophylax is just…so fabulously nerdy
Fabulously nerdy is what I'm going for, that's perfect!
I have never heard of this dragon. Finding out is now my new quest.
@@jessicascoullar3737 Read Farmer Giles of Ham. It's a fun shorter tale of Tolkien's.
Did Ed Greenwood name that one?
@@karlsweeney2328 It's straight up Greek, unlike Greenwood's random mishmash of consonants.
I have learnt so much about Tolkien through your videos, they're so informative! But to be honest, I keep coming back to listen to them mostly because they're just so comfortable to listen to. Your passion and presentation make for wonderful company whilst I'm relaxing and doodling away in the evenings.
So thank you for making these, and I hope this comment keeps the algorithm favorable to your works!
Oh you're so kind! I'm glad I'm able to join you for your evening doodles!
@@Jess_of_the_Shire Agree with the above comment. your speech pattern delivery makes your explanation of the lore so pleasurable to listen to. It's kind of musical. You should sing in Elvish again! I think that one was my favorite.
I've always preferred monsters and villains that have motivations and complexities and purposes of their own, rather than being mere hurdles to overcome. But there is something simple and satisfying about a hidden monster beneath the water.
The Zeno Clash series may supply on that front. That game series is full of monsters and freaks, and actual humans are rare. But it's not a big thing because nigh all Zenos are so bizarre and weird and different from one another, that there's not much point in trying to make a distinction between species and subspecies and the like.
It's not really a story about heroes and villains. Just about the way things are in Zenozoik. About a secret that a parental figure is keeping, which the protagonist named Ghat -- who still dearly loves this matriarch/patriarch-- has learnt about. But out of fear of him revealing this information, the rest of his Family is sent after him to keep him away from the civilized world.
Doesn't help that, you know, he actually blew up the patriarch/matriarch with a bomb at the beginning of the first game.
There's another group of people who choose to go insane and become maniacs that obsess over a single ludicrous thing in their lives. Such as walking in a straight line forever. Wanting to become invisible and thus clawing out the eyes of every living thing near them. Teaching other people how to fight. Peeing yourself and dying. Trying to become a tree. Turning things upside-down and inside-out. Only eating things that end in Y.
The reasoning is that, letting go of *all* mental inhibitions and limits, all worries about surviving and feeding yourself, all sense of anger or resentment or attachment to anything in life, makes you truly free. And from there you choose something that you decide will give your life fulfillment.
In the words of one of these people, "if you are satisfied and do what you feel you must do, then you have reached perfection."
The second game has themes of what happens when someone more developed tries to enforce law and morals on this anarchic, nigh prehistoric society. And the prequel Clash: Artifacts of Chaos takes place when there *was* a single law, however strange. People didn't necessarily like it and the only "enforcers" were the queen's bodyguards who pretty much stayed at the palace, but the Zenos obeyed it nonetheless. Because it's the One Law, and you can't just not obey the Law. It would be like saying trees don't grow leaves-- that's not how it works.
Fascinating series. It being a monster world where a cow man can wear a human's face as a hood with nobody batting an eye, or a flabby-skinned meatball man has an addiction to rooster blood, makes it all the more intriguing to see what manner of creature is around the corner.
Jordan Peterson would have a field day responding to this comment, and how the meta-category of unseen predators - that are hyperreal - lurks in our subcouncious and our imagination fills the gap in knowledge with far more dreadful and scary things that could potentialy harm us than any actual (real) predator like a simple lion or wolf. It's also why the cosmic horror of Lovecraft fascinates people on a much deeper level than the mundane horror of being chased with a knife by some maniac or the very "human" horror of a villain like Raskolnikov.
@@razvansfirlogea3134Eww
When I was a kid and read "Goblin-men," for some reason, I processed it as Orcs are twisted Elves, and Goblins are twisted humans. So for decades I thought goblins were corrupted humans that the Dwarves faced in the Hobbit, while Orcs were corrupted elves that the fellowship faced in LOTR, and Uruki were the offspring of goblins and orcs mating. It made so much sense in my young mind that it blew apart when I learned the truth 10yrs ago.
Its not that big of a deal.
@@brandonmunsen6035 Imagine coming to a video about LotR lore and then telling someone that a bit of LotR lore is "not that big of a deal". Why are you here if it's not important to you?
that's actually an awesome worldbuilding idea
@@HolyMith ability to maintain separation of fantasy from reality is important. learning that a notion about a personally beloved fictional story was incorrect should not be mind-blowing at all unless there are serious real issues at play. wasn't all that far off from the actual book lore in any event. it's like finding out the words to "blinded by the light" aren't the words you've been singing. embarrassing maybe. mind-blowing?
it' just that big of a deal, certainly not enough for your vicarious outrage in support of a stranger who is "confessing" an error of knowledge.
i used to be able to quote the the passage about the breaking of the gates of minas tirith off by heart on command. it was the most moving prose in the whole story, for me. can't now. it's not that big of a deal.
i'm disgusted with what the movies did to the books, but my mind was not blown by their violation of my favourite novel. i expected it. it's friggin' hollywood.
it's not that big of a deal.
as for what amazon has done to the "lore" ? might as well have erased the mona lisa and repainted it with cat vomit, but is it worth freaking out about? didn't subject myself to the torment of watching, so i was never emotionally invested in the tripe. it ain't that big of a deal.
it's possible to love and enjoy something without it being an all-consuming passion, let alone an opportunity to virtue signal.
@@eskizo1306 someone is probably already hammering it out with unreal engine or some similar program, as i type.
Jess of the Shire, as someone who read many fantasy and sci-fi books before even discovering LOTR - I must say, you have a serious grip on the lore and overall feel of so much of this legendary work of Tolkien!
Amazing videos packed with information and insight!
Thank you!
You're so kind! I just really love doing research haha. Thanks so much for watching!
Tolkien's evolving ideas about the potential for Orcs to be redeemed has made them my favorite. I have this whole elaborate head-canon that I've been writing out, about Orcs in east who managed to rebel against the Darkness, and live relatively good lives.
I'd like to read that head-canon sometime.
Maybe one kind orc opened a tavern to serve meat on the menu, boys!
Nah they're evil...even if they weren't, they're nasty and I wouldn't want them anywhere near me. HUMANITY FIRST!!!
Evolving? Did Tolkien revive?
As a child, Smaug was my favourite, because dragons are inherently very cool. When I became an adult, I started to really sympathise with the orcs. I didn't even know Tolkien was ambivalent about them (back when I was reading LotR for the first time, there was no internet as it exists now and I didn't have access to all the extra material that is prevalent now), it was more something I came to alone in reading the book. I could see why people thought they were "simple evil", but every time orcs are talking amongst themselves, you get this picture of their lives that is so sad. They are soldiers and nothing more. They complain about their superiors and while they have names, they are identified by command as just numbers. They are compelled into contest and competition with each other and have poor provisions to their front lines. They also don't want to really *be* on those front lines. They want victory, because maybe that will give them some breathing room, but they also know that war and the front line is a meat grinder from which they probably won't return.
I've often wondered what life looks like for the future of the orcs, without Sauron literally invading their minds and punishing any dissention at a whim. I don't think they would turn into fluffy cottagecore uwu babies, but I do wonder what thousands of generations of continuous trauma would produce in terms of a society of their own. Would they be draconian victorians, where almost every crime is punished by death or humiliation? Where the rich exploit the poor?
I dunno. But it's very interesting to think about.
And that's why orcs are my faves.
Old English expert here!
The pronunciation the digraph in is difficult to explain. The sounds like the letter A in "can", and the is like the letter A in "calm", and you glide quickly between the two.
(The is voiceless like in "miss".)
The pronunciation of in is like German Ü, it's like a letter i but with your lips rounded. And the letter "thorn", , is like a modern TH.
The was probably a tap or a trill like in the modern Scottish accent.
I hope that gives you all the information to pronounce them next time! :)
Thus is so helpful! Thank you so much
I assume this is American pronunciations of can and calm? I gave it a go with an American accent and it sounds a bit like me (English) saying "near". I don't know if ea has changed much from old English to modern English over here so maybe it's not supposed to, but perhaps it could be easier to explain as putting on an English accent? The amount of smoothing (I don't know the proper word) between the two varies by accent but it is two sounds everywhere.
@@biscuit715 Interestingly, the "American" English pronunciations and inflections of words spoken in the Appalachian, Midwest, and on the fringes of the upper Southeast areas of the country represent a "purer" form of English as it was spoken in the 18th, 19th, and the very early 20th century, although the English spoken in Britain was changing rapidly during that latter era. Tolkien did research on traditional Kentuckian and Tennessean family names and dialects, and used them as templates for his Hobbits, especially with regard to place names and how the etymology and phonetics of place-words changed over time, such as how the Baranduin River of the Second Age, became the Brandywine River by the time the Hobbits enter the story.
These long form videos are so awesome.
I love to listen to your videos while I'm cleaing/cooking/doing literally anything, like a podcast.
I know they don't do too well in the algorithm, but any long form content you out out is an 11/10 in my book Your channel has really given me a deeper understanding of Tolkien and helped me form my own opinions about his work. I'm so glad the algorithm let me find this channel because it's like a little escapist haven for me to go into. I hope you continue to do what you do and I hope your channel continues to grow, because you deserve all the success you can get.
I am glad that Tolkien-lore is still popular among younger folks. It was a big part of my childhood. Keep representing for the Shire!
I'm so glad to have caught another of your videos.
You do such a bang up job with your descriptions, emphasis and story telling .
I never would've guessed that there was THIS much( more) nuance to one of my favorite stories of all time.
Your description of Gandalf's succumbing to the will of Iluvatar being what ultimately allows him to return as Gandalf the White gave me chills lol I hadn't looked at it from the angle of Gandalf having ultimate faith in Erus plan (which also contrasts Saruman, the former white, who lost faith) for the fellowship to succeed without him being what gets him "promoted" so to speak
I liked the D&D campaign satire where a dragon is hunted by the players, only for the players to discover that the dragon has discovered investing and that there isn't any gold to be found in the lair.
I know there is this story of Tolkien having doubts about making Orcs be twisted Elves- as it would mean that even foul creatures have an eternal soul- but to me it seems like the most truthful concepts he could have come up with. Its the idea that all things are good in the beginning.
It was Gandalf who outwitted the trolls, not Bilbo. Gandalf mimicked their voices, and got them arguing among themselves. And as for Stone Giants, Gandalf actually considers looking for a useful one, implying that they are real. And when they do appear later, they aren't fighting, but simply playing a game of catch with boulders. Too many people, Jackson included, misunderstand the phrase "thunder battle" to literally mean that the giants were fighting. The phrase simply refers to a clash between two storm fronts in the mountains.
Yes, I imagine the Stone Giants as oversized trolls, more dangerous in their strength and clumsiness than intentionally harmful.
Or perhaps they were more akin to ogres, which Tolkien mentioned briefly in The Hobbit. And since they didn't seem to be followers or servants of The Shadow, at least not by the end of the Third Age, they were probably no longer under the sway of evil. They seem to be simple minded souls who keep to themselves.
@@StuartistStudio1964 Exactly.
@@StuartistStudio1964 yeah agreed I always pictured the stone giants to be like ents but made from stone, not caring about the woods but about their mountains.
Bilbo stalled for time, and Gandalf tricked them- It was a double tap.
As RUclips is my basic cable these days, I totally dig the longer presentations.
Werewolves do appear in LOTR - - the Fellowship of the Ring is attacked by them after the Fellowship descends from the failed attempt to cross the pass over Caradhras, and are the reason that the Fellowship risks entering Moria. Gandalf even calls the werewolf leader "Hound of Sauron." When the werewolves attack the Fellowship many are slain, but no bodies are found the following morning, and the arrows of Legolas are all recovered, except the last one which was set afire by Gandalf's fire-spell.
Indeed. He literally say they were no ordinary wolves hunting in the wilderness. The incantation of the spell he uses against them is "Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurhoth!" Which roughly means, "Fire to save us all! Fire against the werewolves!"
Ngaurhoth meaning werewolf/werewolves.
@@jasonnewell7036 So are Wargs the same as werewolves? Wargs arent regular wolves.
@@An_Iron_God69420 no, wargs are simply wolves with the intelligence of people and the wickedness of orcs.
@@PiraticalBob werewolves are spirits in wolf form. That's why after that particular battle there are no bodies left behind. Legolas remarks that he killed four, but his arrows look as if they hadn't been used.
I never realised that. I thought they were simply wargs.
I really like these long videos. They give a lot of good info.
Wowee another high quality video from Jess! She just don't quit!!
This is going to sound weird, but I wanted to compliment your makeup for this video. Especially the under-curve and over-curve of the sparklies around your eyes. That was a very nice touch and fits in nicely with my concept of elves. I also wanted to thank you for not including Beorn as one of the monsters, even though technically he is since he's a "were-bear," except he's one of the good-guys. Oh, almost forgot, the Eagles are the counterpoint of the Fell Beasts of the Nazgul, morally and evolutionarily, being giant feathered birds where the Fell Beasts are featherless pterosaurs, intelligent where the Fell Beasts are not, and only accept passengers by their own volition where the Fell Beasts are mere animal steeds. My philosophy is that horses are partners, not pets, and even Bill the pack horse is a fine example of this. There is a difference between intelligent partners from the animal kingdom, and non-intelligent animals used as basically slaves without volition or personality. JRRT seems to have understood this concept, even as badly as I have expressed it here. --Dan
The Watcher in the Waters is unquestionably terrifying, in part because Tolkien never actually tells us what it is. "Watcher in the Waters" is simply what it does, not what it is. You might say it's an octopus, but that's primarily just because it has tentacles. Tolkien might just as well have described these appendages as "giant cilia," in which case we'd probably never guess that it's an octopus.
I think, though, the most fascinating of his monsters are the orcs, and the goblins before them. I say that because they are so very human-like, albeit the very worst of humankind. And they have language, both their own and the Common Tongue. I can't think of another monster in LotR that can speak, although the trolls spoke in The Hobbit. I remember when I was a small child and my father was reading the books to me (The Hobbit, not LotR, I think). One night I was terrified by a lightning storm after I went to bed, and my mind made some sort of connection to orcs, or goblins -- NOT to trolls, although in The Hobbit the lightning storm in the Misty Mountains was specifically caused by trolls.
As to the Orcs, here is my take: What if the elves and orcs, being wholly opposite each other are there to provide bookends to mankind? To illustrate that Men have the capability to become like either one - Elf or Orc. And it is this ability that sets Men apart from both. But I dont know.
The giant spiders in Mirkwood disturb me the most. Reminds way too much of the oil room in my basement 😮
What a wonderfully put together video. Gotta say the orcs are probably my favorite. A tragic race created to do harm and never shown any other way of life.
The story of Aule and the dwarves is one of the most emotional things Tolkien ever came up with. He created them but couldn't give them life, and then when Eru got on to him he prepared to destroy them, and then Eru gave them life and a place in creation.
Because Aule made them out of love, and Melkor was always working out of ego.
Notably, the Dwarves are given life just as Aule is about to strike them with his hammer, and he notices them cowering, something they wouldn't do without the fire of life. The scene is almost reminiscent of Abraham and God in the Bible, really.
Beautifully presented, Jess. Keep it up!
I was very sad the barrow wights were cut out of the movie. Favorite Tolkien monsters include the aforementioned barrow wights, Smaug, and those ogres. Outside of Tolkien I love Medusa, the Kraken, and the sirens of green myth. While I certainly appreciate the archetypes of big, bad, monsters for the hero to fight, I do have to say that the first time I heard the notion of having tea with a dragon, I was sold on the idea that not every monster needs to be bad, some can even be redeemed if they were bad. Redemption stories are among my favorite and if you can include a monstrous creature in that redemption, I’m here for it.
You may find something interesting in the Oddworld and Zeno Clash series.
For Zeno Clash, most inhabitants of Zenozoik, as the land is called, are monstrous, freakish and horrible for our standards. Inspirations range from Hieronymus Bosch paintings and the Drolatic Dreams of Pantagruel, to more obscure prehistoric animals.
All Zenos are quite different from one another and the few creatures we'd recognize as humans aren't considered any more special than any other Zeno.
Zenozoik is not exactly a welcoming world-- you do need to know how to fight. There's no law to protect you or central authority to appeal to within the single city that exists and the wildlife can be dangerous too. But there's so few settings that are fully, or close to near-fully inhabited by monsters and Zenozoik is one that I hold close to my heart alongside Oddworld.
Oddworld itself is much more developed, more alien, and sadly a capitalist dystopia with a strict caste system and entire peoples being enslaved by industry-inclined races in the name of profit. It gets to the point of wildlife being hunted to extinction for food products in big, horrible farms and butcheries, and the higher-ups decide that the next logical step for making quick profit is using the slave caste as the main ingredient for a new food line.
Thusly, the main character Abe sets out to escape, and later learns from a shaman of how his people had at one point in time a strong connection to nature and mysticism. Now forgotten and forced away by the industrial races.
Now he has to be a saviour, and hopefully with minimal casualties along the way. Tough job for a guy who gets frightened easily and regularly risks being shot, mauled, exploded, crushed etc
Abe's not the only protagonist in the Oddworld series, though. There's Munch, an amphibian frog-like creature who seeks to safeguard the last remaining eggs of his species, and Stranger, a bounty hunter resembling a cross between a lion and a gorilla who needs money for a life-saving surgery. But there's more to him than simply being a fighter, and likewise ties into a sense of heritage.
The creation story of Brütal Legend can be interesting too. It is thanks to primordial monsters that their world came to be, in the first place. The First Ones were so hideous that they desired the dark to hide in, from each other and themselves-- but one day, a horrific beast by name of Ormagöden came into the land, made of flesh and metal, blazing like an angry sun, roaring all the way. And his light forced the hateful First Ones to see themselves as they truly were.
Ormagöden was lured into a trap thanks to a beautiful singing creature by name of Aetulia being used as bait to lure him in. From there, the First Ones tried to douse his flames with mud, but rather than letting himself be killed, Ormagöden destroyed himself.
His Blood became a flood that drowned the First Ones and eventually the oceans, his Fire shot into the sky where it became the sun, his steel Flesh shot into the earth and enriched it with minerals of all sorts, while the Noise of his dying roar persists to this day in the form of music.
Monsters are fuppin' awesome.
Fascinating, thank you. Yes these are longer than than the typical RUclips video, but great content. The only suggestion I'd have is a two parter to better fit into their preferred parameters. Gosh, I haven't read Beowulf since college...a lifetime ago! Thanks again, Jess.
I'm glad you gave Frodo one of his moments of heroism -- in the Barrow.
Could you put together a video that showcases his Crowning Moment of Awesome -- his defiance of the Riders at the Fords of Bruinen?
***
Frodo heard the splash of water. It foamed about his feet. He felt the quick heave and surge as the horse left the river and struggled up the stony path. He was climbing the steep bank. He was across the Ford.
But his pursuers were close behind. At the top of the bank the horse halted and turned about, neighing fiercely. There were Nine Riders at the water's edge below, and Frodo's spirit quailed before the threat of their uplifted faces. He knew of nothing that would prevent them from crossing as easily as he had done; and he felt that it was useless to try to escape over the long uncertain path from the Ford to the edge of Rivendell, if once the Riders crossed. In any case, he felt that he was commanded urgently to halt. Hatred again stirred in him, but he had no longer the strength to refuse.
Suddenly the foremost Rider spurred his horse forward. It checked at the water and reared up. With a great effort Frodo sat upright and brandished his sword.
"Go back!" he cried. "Go back to the Land of Mordor, and follow me no more!" His voice sounded thin and shrill in his own ears. The Riders halted, but Frodo had not the power of Bombadil. His enemies laughed at him with a harsh and chilling laughter. "Come back! Come back!" they called. "To Mordor we will take you!"
"Go back!" he whispered.
"The Ring! The Ring!" they cried with deadly voices, and immediately their leader urged his horse forward into the river, followed closely by two others..
"By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair," said Frodo with a last effort, lifting up his sword, "You shall have neither the Ring nor me!"
The fact that scene wasn't in the Peter Jackson film is an absolute shame. Heck, his attempt to attack the Ringwraiths at the base of Weathertop in the book was another point of heroism; unlike the film, he throws himself at the Witchking while calling out "Elbereth", but is simply outmatched. Though his desperate attack is probably what saved him, forcing the Witchking's stab to hit his shoulder rather than his heart.
I'm so so glad youtube recommended your channel. I love your content so much as someone who loves lord of the rings I truly enjoy your videos so freaking awesome.
Nice informative video! I've come to like the orcs specifically because if they have life like the children of Ilúvatar, then their story is a tragic one. Taken by the dark powers and twisted into a life of constant fighting and being hunted, not given the chance to be redeemed, probably the most "good" of the orcs sticking by their friends or slinking into a cave or forest not to disturb anyone. It gets even worse considering how death works in Tolkien's universe, since they might be derived from elves, even in death the most likely outcomes is they follow the counter-call of Morgoth or they're stuck to the world as houseless-spirits.
I feel people overlook orcs/goblins a lot since they have interesting histories too, the Misty Mountain orcs escaping Beleriand's fall to hide in caves, the Eastern Orcs carving out their own petty independent realms before Sauron rose to power. And despite the fact that they suffer great losses (somewhat cause of themselves as well), they can spring back and survive on whatever they can find.
I have the hope that they can travel to the halls of Mandros and be slowly untwisted over time.
Wait, can we revisit were-worms for a second?
I do love how often Tolkien’s understanding of evil is beautifully embodied in the behavior and origins of his monsters. It’s such a thoughtful approach to his creatures.
As always, thanks for improving my Friday!!!
One curious thing about goblins in The Hobbit is that they are not a primitive species, given their obsession with machinery, fire and explosions. Also, the area in the vicinity of the Black Gate is described as an industrial wasteland, implying that Mordor under Sauron might be quite advanced in the terms of technolgical development. Unfortunately, Tolkien wasn't too specific about the society of Mordor except saying that it was based on slavery and that Orcs themselves hated Sauron as much as they hated Men or Elves, and without him they woud just turn to banditry.
An interesting thing though. There's no orcish atrocity in the book that couldn't be matched by the things humans have done to each other irl throughout the history.
Seems like Tolkien took all the things he hated in humanity (greed, uncontrolled industrial development, destruction of nature, war, especially his own WW1 experience) and projected them onto the Orcs and Mordor.
OK, that ad transition was wonderfully done! Well done Jess
I just remembered something...in days of old in England specifically, a 'wolf's head' was an outlaw...a person that could be killed on sight, like a wolf, and who had a bounty on his life.
Further, the wolf is extinct in the British Isles.
Alas, criminals still run amok in Old Blighty.
25:47 This is why i think the line spoken by Barbosa in the 1st PotC truly made it an almost epic story of modern time. Barbosa describing how they could not be satiated, made them truly scary. Something with no cesation, is scary, no appeasing, no satisfying, is truly scary. The minds, of some of man.😱
My favorites are Ungoliant and Shelob. They are not just "spider creatures", they are alien (in the broader sense of the word). The scene where Ungoliant sucks the light, the sap, of the Trees is so horrific and sad. Perfection
Smaug and Shelob are my favorites for what they represent and how they challenge the characters and themes... but then Ungoliant is just on a whole other level of cosmic horror that's way more interesting to me than the usual suspects of that genre.
Love the channel Jess.... keep up the good work!
Thank you so much!
Bilbo went there and back again. Gandalf wandered all over, and over again . Frodo, though, he went to and fro.
Superb video Jess. As someone with a love for all things fantasy these videos are pure joy to me
My favorite has to be the Evil Cat Lady with her cat pack.
Beruthiel. My female cat is named after her 😆
And apparently shr didn't even like them. (I'm sure the cats flocked to her anyway because they misread her body language, lol)
I also love Crysophylax and Farmer Giles. I got so excited when he was mentioned 😂
Say what you will about Warner Brothers, but the Shadow of Mordor games did an amazing job fleshing out the Orcs. It pulls no punches about how violent and dangerous they are and how even when theoretically freed from Sauron's influence most won't hesitate to turn on you when they think they can get something out of it, and yet there are many others who are capable of finding contentment in being given a purpose beyond wonton destruction and even developing a sense of friendship. Even without Celebrimbor's powers cutting them off from the Dark Lord, there are still hints some are capable of questioning their lot in life and all of them have their own personalities.
In norse mythology there is actually a mention of a witch riding a wolf who comes to the aid of the gods. When they almost paralyzed with grief are unable to launch Baldir's burial ship out unto the sea, they ask the witch Hyrokkin for help. And she arrives at the beach riding a dire wolf and with her sorcery she succeeds in setting Baldir's burning ship afloat. Interrestingly, there is a depiction of a female figure with snakelike hair riding a wolf on a stone that was part of a stonemonument (including runestones) that consisted of at least eight stones found in southern Sweden. That female image has been interpreded as a depiction of Hyrokkin.
5:40 It's paraphrased, but I absolutely LOVE the delivery of this in the old animated Hobbit. Especially the way his stomps emphasize the growing "strong, strONG, STRONG!!"
You earned a subscriber, what a video!
You’re my new favorite Scholar/Channel by far! I’m sure you have to many video ideas to make; but you should totally narrate an audiobook one day.
Maybe this is 'basic' of me, but I just love Orcs and Goblins. There's an indie tabletop game called Boglanders, and the source book opens with a short essay about the history of Orcs and Goblins in literature and pop culture. There's something about them that's historic yet ubiquitous.
I love this channel. It's so cozy, and feels like a close friend is talking to me about their passions around a fireplace.
Great video as usual! Your commentary on the “humanity” of orcs in the last few minutes was particularly fascinating.
I think the fact that the orcs aren't completely evil, makes the perspective make the difference. the picture of the enemy is always presented by the victor of the war, and often twisted into the foulest form. I think that his writing them as evil from the perspective of the characters makes perfect sense based purely on the fact that for the characters they ARE monsters, they ARE evil for the characters; and yet he also still gives a hint of the fact that they aren't as purely evil as the characters think, through their own speech. it's the same as hearing history of a war through the victors of the war, while also hearing the reasoning of a normal soldier from the opposing side; it makes the other side's view less shallow and more human, helping you empathize with their struggle.
^I actually think this is something not done enough in literature, no, you don't ALWAYS need a motivation for the evil lord, but the pawns he's controlling, they are people, they may not agree, they may not even want to be on his side, but they have little agency to change their position. humanize the pawns, humanize the soldiers under the villains, give them a reason to be trapped and manipulated, help people to feel empathy for their situation, and they are suddenly no longer faceless masses.
I love longer form videos, I can have them on in the background and soak up that Tolkien goodness (or badness in this case) while doing other things. Definitely keep making more of this format, the father of modern fantasy deserves a full treatment of his work!
Also, my favourite monster in the legendarium are the Nameless Things, only mentioned in passing by Gandalf after his plummet into the darkest pits of Moria. If he isn't being deliberately theatrical, they may be of the same caliber of creature as Ungoliant - older than the arrival of the Valar and created from the void rather than the direct action of Illuvatar or the Ainur. Very Lovecraftian and suitably terrifying.
Edit: I forgot to mention that the Watcher may have been one of these things, as Gandalf theorises it made its way up from the aquifers beneath Moria and into the lake outside the secret door.
Definitely liked your end bit about orcs, got me thinking about gollum, and just how the will of Sauron ie. the ring could twist a hobbit
The inspiration for the Barrow-wights is likely the Draugar of Norse mythology. Draugar are undead creatures that lurk in barrows and tombs, guarding their treasure. An alternate name for them (or possibly a type of them) is Haugbui, which writers have sometimes translated as "Barrow-dweller" or "Barrow-wight."
I love the way you structure your videos into sounding like the beginning of an epic story and bridge it to become almost like an interesting lecture. ❤!
Great video! You clearly put a lot of work and thought into it. It's well thought out and touches on each monster's unique relationship to the themes and philosophies of Tolkien's writings in a very well done manner.
Dragons are among my favourites, but, though they were not mentioned, Nazgûl are hands down my favourites. Their limited number and "undead" nature probably puts them and Barrow-wights in the same broad category, but the idea behind them is, in a way, similar to that of Orcs, being beings twisted into tragic monsters, though for the Nazgûl it is through exploiting their hubris and weakness rather than the more horrible origins of the Orcs.
Good job!!! 👹👺🐲🐉 I'd consider Gollum to be a monster. I'd think that he were my "favorite". Amongst the others, I'd think probably Smaug, who was capable of a conversation, was my favorite.
To my mind Tolkien used the idea of corruption instead of evil.
As such there is also the idea of forgiveness and redemption.
This is great Jess. Also this outfit is amazing, on point for the subject.
Gah! I love this channel. You're easily one of the top Loremasters. Truly well researched and produced. Well done, looking forward to travel videos.
It's Goth Jess Day! Yaaaayyyy!!!
I was a young man, back in the ice ages, when last I read LOTR. I've come to think of them as long-winded and not very psychologically deep, but your words about Tolkien pulling at the threads of his own creation has made me want to reread - I did love these stories once and maybe I could again, thanks
I always thought of the watcher in the water as some aspect of the balrog; Gandalf says of their battle that when "his fire was quenched, but now he was a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake".
Regarding the Orcs, what people often fail to realize is that them not being entirely evil, just as the Haradim men were not, was always the point. And I personally think this is due to a lack of understand of IRL history, One of the cited inspirations other than the Mongols for the Orcs was the Ottoman army. And of the Mongols, Tolkien cited the Timurid-era Mongols as chief amongst the inspirations. For those unaware, the reason why these inspirations are so important to understanding the Orcs, is because both the Ottomans and the Timurids employed literal SLAVE ARMIES. In the same way the Easterlings, Variags, and Haradim represent imperial levies forced to fight on behalf of colonial overlords, the Orcs are people conditioned as slave soldiers for Morgoth and Sauron, albeit more genetically/morphologically as opposed to sociologically (although that happens too). Hell, we get a glimpse of what they probably did through Saruman's creation of the Uruk-Hai. Orcs past the first generation had very little chance to escape their lot as janissaries/mamelukes/habshis of Morgoth, and that emphasizes just how unforgiveable Morgoth, Sauron & Sarumans crimes are, even beyond their other atrocities. They force the allied resistance groups to cleave through fellow victims of their depredations to preserve their own freedom.
This was a GREAT video. Thank you so much. Love the make up and hair; too!
I love all your videos, especially these super niche deep dives
I’m so stoked for this video. And Jess’s makeup looks so cool! 😭
It's a long time since I read the Hobbit, but I think their was an explenation in it that orcs/goblins transformed over time into evil man who create wapons and start wars but beside that are nowadays indistingtable from humans. I somehow liked this explenaton and always wondered why Tolkien didn't stick with this explenation for the orcproblem.
Your videos are just so cozy. You and Nerd of the Rings are my Tolkien comfort channels, especially when doing Middle Earth themed things, like building Barad Dur in LEGO or importing the LOTR audiobooks I got from the library into my computer. Have a great day, you deserve it!
You brought up a good point. Evil isn't a thing in and of itself and not an absence of but a perversion of good things. Evil can't exist without good to feed on, twist, and corrupt. The idea that evil is a void like a black hole or something is brilliant. I could talk more on this, but not now. Will say this to you though. Good work.
Great video, Jess. Thank you!
Great work! Ending on the orcs as perhaps the one wicked creature in the legendarium that are not irredeemable was a perfect finish
Just watched the video. This was lovely and informative. Your voice is wonderful and the manner in which you read the quotes is marvelous.
I wonder if Tolkien was aware of Lovecraft? The Watcher and Balrogs are very much Eldritch horror, IMO. Great video, your guest star was a true delight and very insightful. Amazing thoughts and great work went into this and it shows.
I was thinking the very same thing. I have thought that the Watcher, which is tangential to the main storyline of TFOTR, has its parallel in the 'huge, formless white polypous thing with luminous eyes' that is legendary to the squatters who live south of New Orleans in 'The Call of Chthulhu.' In neither case do we know how these monsters relate to the established baddies in their respective stories, they are just there, which makes their presence all the more unsettling.
The description of Ungolient as a primordial creature of darkness is so Lovecraftian too!
Great episode! Thank you for the legwork you put into these "encyclopedia" episodes, and for the inspired readings and interpretations. I may have caveats, addendums, or my own personal takes on some of these things, but that takes nothing away from what you have assembled from your own point of view.
Your videos get better every time.
Thanks for another enjoyable video. Happy to see your numbers continue to go up.
Very in depth and informative. Awesome job!
No justification for the treatment of orcs needs to be sought. There is not one instance I can recall (in canon) in which an orc gave quarter, offered mercy, showed pity, or sought to change their ways.
Orcs might be capable of redemption, but do not seek it.
Had such a thing occurred in the narrative, I would like to believe that the free peoples of the west would reciprocate accordingly. While at the same time not forgetting the lesson of whatever is middle-earth's equivalent of the fable of the scorpion and the toad.
I think that squares with what Tolkien wrote.
Very true.
Jess seems to be confusing "they are forced to be evil" for "they are not actually that evil". Which isn't true. They are all evil. It's not their fault but that doesn't change the fact that they are monstrous and must be destroyed.
They are evil. Nobody disputes that. The question is: are they irredeemable evil?
If they were good at first, and then they went corrupted, it is not possible to bring them back? In other words, is corruption only one-way in Tolkien's world?
@@juanausensi499 they are redeemable. But not by mortals
@@tilltronje1623 Not even sure about this. For some reason the ainur at the end of the first age didn't try to undo this most wicked of Morgoth evils. If there would have been a way for them, I think they would have done it.
On the other hand, you never know, there may be a plan even for them in Iluvatars grande scheme?
Fantastic color palette for your hair and makeup, just wow
I don't know if it's canon or not, but it is believed that the Watcher is a RUclips reactor, who got it's name from watching movies and TV shows...
Also, some barrows were portable. Surely you've heard of wheelbarrows? (Don't forget to tip Jess)
Excellent! A great exposition and very informative. Thanks for taking the time to share!
This is another fantastic analysis - thank you for making all your videos comprehensive!
Love the longer format!
Just started the video and I have to say that I love your makeup! Carry on - I'll return to watching the video.
I have to admit as much as I like Jess of the shire, I really enjoy this apparent Jess of the shadows!
I find that the Orcs in the Lord of the Rings seem less evil than some heroes in Game of Thrones, and Presidents of some super powers in the real world 😁
You're awesome at reading Tolkien, your expressiveness easily paints a mental picture in my imagination.
I’m a huge fan of these longer in depth videos
I like Dragons, they'll always be one of my favorites, even if they're not really a Tolkien creation. I just think Smaug is a very cool character tbh. Here's to hoping you make a sequel video!
Love your understanding of the battle between Gandalf and the Balrog. And i think the Movie actually did this scene justice.
Thank you Jess! Great video, as always.
the orcs were captured elves (and some possibly seduced elves?) ruined by morgoth. morgoth's tendency was to infuse his mockeries of creation with his essence. thus, he diminished his own personal power, but infused his slaves and creations with his evil. obviously, as gandalf stated in the fellowship of the ring when asked to do some "magic", he had to to have something to work with. what means he used to warp and ruin elves into orcs are not known because tolkien didn't got into it.
the dragons have terrible intelligence and power. i think they're like balrogs. maiar who followed and served morgoth who willingly became fixed creatures within the world, rather than remain spirits of malice, which must have required tremendous sacrifice of being, seeing as they die, and their spirit clearly leaves the confines of the world, likely to join morgoth in the void, although sauron didn't seem to vanish into nothingness within the world like that bloody witch king did.
I've tried to start Fellowship a few times, I suck at reading and it's a lot to take in. But, and I'm sure you've heard this, I would love an audiobook of you reading the books!! You have the perfect voice and passion for the stuff
Beautifully done. Thank you.
Great video, very informative!
Beowulf was one of my favorite book reports in HS! I learned my love for such writing from reading the original Hobbit in Elementary school. I was told "oh dear! That book prolly too advanced for you." "I wants it!"😅 I didn't say it like Smeagul! I am however very glad the librarian allowed me to check it out! It greatly expounded on my vocabulary, and whilst troublesome at times, I was enthralled! And thus began my life long love of the fantasy genre!🥰
I got to say, that's a really cool necklace!