I never dreamed to see so many pastors sell out the approval of God for the approval of man. The spirit of pride from our leaders is totally unacceptable.
Thank you for your discussion on this topic. I've been having discussions with other RUclipsrs that have been discussing this situation. You are the only ones I have heard speak the same way as I have on this topic. Just because someone falls, does not negate all the good and works done by that person prior to falling. Christians are so quick to judge a leader by tossing out everything the person has done in Christ. Christians forget, we would need to toss out major parts of scripture for the same reason these Christians judge other Christians today.
No excuse. Fact. And you are correct. The leaders of GOD'S word will be held accountable more by GOD. Not defending MacDonald here. However, pletty of people around to point fingers at. Starting with the elders down to the person sitting in the pew. I pray for all involved. This a great time to look at the word of God first and not of men. Seek the Kingdom first and not our earthly ways.
Least of Saints MC Erie Crew some elders did confront him in 2013. JM had them removed....that’s the type of power he wielded. He then filed frivolous lawsuits to try to keep the truth from getting out..
I was a longtime listener and follower of Walk in the Word ministry and of Dr. James Mc Donald. His ministry has touched and changed my LIFE and helped set me and my family on this spirtual journey!!! God bless HIM and his family and God's continued work in the Harvest ministry!!!
What we see happening in the world today, with all the corruption. We have to remember that the word of God says judgment begins in the house of the Lord. So what’s happening in the churches that God is dealing with it’s because he can’t deal with the world until He deals with the church,Bless you for this very good post
I'm grieving this soo much. I can't come to terms that my place of hope has gone this way. I need to pray and cry out to my Lord and saviour Jesus Chris.
I really love to hear this man preach I really love the message it was really helpful especially when he did the elephant room I thought this was real good in spite of his struggles or what he has he's a brother and we need to love him unconditionally we don't throw our own to the wolves
I think it is great to discuss the issue of the church and how to handle their pain, I have been following and supporting the ministry for many years and I do not think that those who believe in the simple Bible based message have a problem with James' preaching simple uncomplicated messages and I do not think people will be tossing his preaching dvd's in the bin as much as you might think judging by what feedback I have been getting they are supporting each other through their grief and I have not heard too many harsh statements due to the fallout of losing a respected pastor as you might think. Is it troubling of course, I will tell you that I wept when I heard this news but my faith did not waver I prayed earnestly for James and his family and I know that God has a plan and will continue to use the church in Chicago. I feel that the Walk in the Word platform worked because of its uncomplicated Bible message and still do. The real issue I think that is far more damaging is James not coming forward to address his congregation as a whole via online where a lot of his listeners have become acquainted with him. I think I feel let down more by his lack of acknowledging his church in the broad sense of the word. Not so he can be bashed or ridiculed but so he can get Christian feedback and encouragement and perhaps hear that people will be praying for him and his family. James like the rest of us is flesh and is just as frail and weak and susceptible to the wiles as we are and it is sad but as Christians we should be caring forgiving and moving on with God's work. Having said that I am also grieved for those who are not Christians who hear yet another story of a high profile Christian in the media and the damage that this does to a not quite there listener that turns his back entirely on the Word of God. God help us to forgive and love and serve as Christ showed by HIs example.
NOT JUST HIM...WHERE WERE THE OTHERS...CECK AND BALANCE NOW OTHER OF HARVEST LEADERS ARE SAYING THEY KNEW...THE MONEY SHOULD GO TO THE ORPHANS AND WIDOWS. NOT ALL THESE RICH PASTORS...EVERYTHING THAT IS HIDDEN WILL BE REVILED .. JUDGEMENT BEGINGS IN THE HOUSE OF GOD...DO NOT CALL IT GRIEF...MY HUSBAND AND CHILD DIED...THAT IS GRIEF.....HE WILL BE FORGIVEN IF HE REPENTS LIKE JIM BAKER...JIMMY SWAGGERT...ETC. .LOOK AT THE BIG CHURCHES..KEN COPELAND. JOINING WITH THE POPE...ONE WORLD CHURCH...ONE WORLD ORDER...WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING YET...EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN WILL BE SHAKEN...ALL OF US MUST REPENT AND HUMBBLE OURSELFS....I PRAY FOR HIM THAT HE DOES NOT TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT....WHEN MY CHILD DIED AND HUSBAND ...THE DEVIL TOLD ME TO KILL MYSELF....WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO US IN THIS WORLD...YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO TO HE'LL FOR ETERNITY. PRAY FOR EACH OTHER
There's always going to be people who criticize Pastors who fall and think they know the whole story. You said my heart exactly brother, and I appreciate Christians like you who understand the nature of a Christ follower and not just another judgmental critic. I've listened to James MacDonald for a while and know, yes know, the Holy Spirit was guiding his messages which is why I'm grieved just like you. I know people are only speaking their true natures when they criticize without simply praying to the merciful God we serve in the name of the sacrificial lamb, Jesus about fallen leaders, so when I see heartfelt words like yours I understand that you're speaking from the Spirit of God and not just another stone thrower. God bless you brother.
After all I've seen so far of his offenses against the body, you guys did a stellar job of putting these situation in a Biblical context- for the building up of the saints. Many will use this fallout as excuse to not only break fellowship (Like I once did and backslid!) or start attacking the church like the liberals do. We are to do all things in love and you guys are doing it. I was thinking...wouldn't it be great if James stood before the congregation to receive his discipline publicly. He should see the faces of those he has betrayed. They should see him with a repentant spirit. They are in a tremendous debt and he needs to pay it back.
Its understandable to be hurt and even angry with what happen...please dont let the spirit of offence take over. You gave of your time and tithes and offerings with a good heart to God not these men, It is on them and God will deal with that. Let the anger and resistance go God has plan for you stay focused.
Quote: "We don't celebrate this..." I take the view of "I celebrate this" because those "church" leaders/elders FINALLY grew a pair and took action. The "board" is just as guilty as James MacDonald. I "celebrate this" because it's Truth triumphing and satan being defeated...again. "God NEVER TOLD US to build church buildings for a 'church'." Think.
Amen John Johnson Video from a former member of Harvest Bible Chapter under James Macdonald VIDEO ruclips.net/video/L4lpYgAjG0Q/видео.html My Response: These Reprobates who make merchandise of the unlearned. 2 Peter 2:3... I've never been to Harvest but I've seen James Macdonald's disgusting beggar video that screams hypocrisy promoting unbiblical social gospel and encourages Pathological Altruism. Please see link below. Please take a moment to read Blog of my personal testimony of 50 years of attending church (literally hundreds, Black churches, Korean, Mega, Evangelical, Baptist, AOG, TV ministries RUclips ,all over the United States and around the world) a thoroughly documented experience in the fraudulent 501C3 building operations, including even the private enterprises and foreign operations calling themselves churches that are run by mostly Jesuit influenced Seminary trained apostate CEOs calling themselves pastors. We have recently completed an 800 page Ebook with over 2,000 source based references to substantiate every detail and we also include solid King James Bible referenced doctrine that has completely been removed from every church operation. We will send a free copy of our Ebook to anyone who requests a copy by emailing us in link attached or people can purchase the $0.99 Ebook on Amazon direct. Or people can simply read through the Blogs attached in links below to glean information that is essential in understanding what's happening today in these churches. I begin with first hand accounts of my days going back to our home church of Calvary Temple in Denver Colorado when Charles E Blair was arrested on SEC violations in 1975-6, 17 counts of securities fraud and still only a fraction was ever repaid of the millions parishioners lost to Blair's Ponzi scheme. This is only a drop in the ocean of what is going on in churches today. I detail it in my Blog. One of my favorite to date is me on the phone with Kenneth Copeland ministries asking to speak to Kenneth about how my seed faith money of over $80,000. in multiple ministries including his, wasn't working out very well as we were losing our home. Or my years in Viet Nam to learn the extent of the Vatican's infiltration etc. Praise God I have now been homechurching and fellowshipping in small groups the same way I did in the underground church movement while living in Vietnam and visiting China. I'm now retired and have committed my life to exposing the Apostate Church and Charlatans that are fleecing the flock. Thank you. thirdheaventraveler.blogspot.com/2018/12/i-don-go-to-church-from-blood-bought.html thirdheaventraveler.blogspot.com/2019/02/social-gospel-is-not-only-not-biblical.html thirdheaventraveler.blogspot.com/2018/06/who-are-you-amir-tsarfati-my-brother-in.html thirdheaventraveler.blogspot.com/2018/12/an-open-letter-of-rebuke-to-stones.html
@@vietrandy1 Thank you brothers for doing what we are supposed to be doing. The modern church is failing in many ways. We now have the cult of personalities not Jesus.
Sorry to tell you this but according to historical acknowledge christianity was found it by the Roman empire and his legion of pagan mithological priests and all with the benefit of control of the masses. ActuallyThey were called followers of the Messiah (YAHSHUA) and not jesus(pagan satanic originated name few hundred years ago by monks or people in Roman hierarchy with a demonic meaning) that mayority of people are clueless...just pay a simple little observation and please dont shut down your common sense. : Rome (Vatican) the mother harlot of all of them . Pastors had been deceived and leading people to perpetual hell for many many years. Satan and his demons have twisted the criptures thousands of times .
Amen brothers. We are the under shepherds and can't forget this fact. It's Christ's church that He allows us the great privilege of shepherding. I pastor a small church and it's true for small church pastors and pastors of large ones. Blessings to you. Thanks for this great warning you have brought up. For any of us could falter as brother James has. May the Lord be with Him and bring him to where He wants him to go.
I for one will pray for brother James, it,s so unreal to not know this hurts his family as well, he alone will have to look to his savior for his needed answers.
@@lionessrising He's(JMcdonal) down to earth a total scumbag scammer parasite predestinated to destroy congregation's spirit and as always. : theres some idiots still insisting to pray for that parasite,Satan is also a true believer of lies and Deceivement so most like many that is born have the tendency to get fooled because ignorance of the TRUTH
Was he?..psshh!..obiously he as to start been good but once the cash flowed in gradually into his pocket then what, so who's fault?..both elders & him...ops! Correction:Satans fault 😂🤣😫😂🤣🤣LOL!!!..so keep praying hard ok? ..
Gail, I am the pastor of a small church. Can you give me some details on what you are saying? Give me some examples of what you saw and how you think things should have run. Thanks.
So many comments reflect “Praying for James.” How many years will it take for those of you who say “Fallen Pastor” to pay attention to those of us who were Members?
I understand yes the body is the one we should be praying for ❤️🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 I cant even imagine the pain and brokenness and it was more then J M falling it was a complete corruption from the inside this business elders and inner circle were all yes men to J M while he fleeced and abused his powers! This “church” aka cult took in a half billion dollars in 12 years and yet they are 43 million dollars in debt?? Per JD they excommunicated three elders who dared to stand up to him there’s so much ugliness at HBC I don’t even think people have a clue what was really going on yet
Listen you people who were members. This guy is right. There were 4-5 uppis men in his let's say who served him and knew what he was doing. They asked him to step down already in 2010 or 2011, and he refused. Those 4-5 men, who had the guts to ask him,, ALL left the church. A real loss to the members. Then, one man came to Wi to be an associate pastor. Guess what, when the congregation found out, because it was another Harvest church, members dropped out in droves. Then another small Harvest extension church merged and got a new pastor. That was fine. But that Harvest church was racked by 2 more scandals following this . More members left. The associate pastor retired and eventually the senior pastor stepped down. They have no senior pastor. That Harvest church in Wi has just a skeleton crew of staff plus once again, members left. Now I ask you, who is suffering the most, the pastor who can go back and hide in his mansion and go about his life in a wealthy manner and eventually head another church OR ALL THE MEMBERS WHO WORSHIPPED THIS MAN A ND GAVE AND GAVE TO SUPPORT HIS PRIDE, ARROGANCE, ETC, DO YOU NOT PRAY AND WEEP FOR THEM WHO HAVE BEEN ROBBED AND BETRAYED. AND WHAT ABOUT THE ELDERS THAT DIDN'T WALK AWAY. THAT PASTOR NOT ONLY HURT THE MEMBERS BUT VIOLATED HIS POSITION and how about those extension churches and all those members, more thousands. Believe me, Go's is truly shaking his church, started with Christ church in New Zealand with THE big earthquake as a sign. There will be more in all DENOMINATIONS coming soon. Willow creeks pastor and elders stepped down and 500 Catholic priests in illinois are accused of abuse. Now tell me, who has been truly hurt, betrayed, ETC. The pastors who have fallen off their pedestals or the members who may never attend another church again. The small church leaders are just as guilty of this also. Building their own kingdom instead of God's kingdom, ie, James, baker, Jimmy swagger, ETC. And what about any missionaries and their families and members in different countries that the missionary families served and their work in building God's kingdom. Yes, God is truly separating the goats from the sheep and the sheep from the sheep. I don't attend any church now because I have grown to dislike ORGANIZED RELIGION. You members watch David Heveaners RUclips interview with Christy who was a member from 1996-2013, served for years. And devastated by all of this happening. Actually, she has 2 videos on this subject. People, ALL of us, wake up and start to hold these leaders accountable before God and your congregation. And by the way, when you do, those leaders and those covering up, will make sure you are silenced or ostracized from your church. And the tv evangelists, not all, are the worst because they are leading millions of their followers to he'll, who worship them and support them. God founded his church to preach the gospel and get people saved for eternity to be with Him not for leaders yo build their own kingdoms on earth. The churches in America have no discernment. If anything, PRAY that God give us believers, DISCERNMENT. I grieve for you members because I know what you are going through. May God bless you and continue to heal your brokeness and your congregation.
I was very disappointed when I heard about this. Very surprised as well. Unexpected to hear this from a senior pastor like James Macdonald. Still, hope he is well. No one on God's Green Earth is perfect. We all have our flaws. God Bless...🙏🙏🙏
God used his ministry to literally save my life. Never saw him/ any ministry more than what they are. Always remember David, a man after God's own heart that NO ONE WOULD DESIRE TO HAVE AS A NEIGHBOR in this hypocritical, "publican" world today. Don't excuse the behavior, just extending Samaritan hand of prayer. Hope he restored soon with much wisdom from experience.
I enjoyed your video and your sincere hearts in addressing the firing of James MacDonald. Praise God for people like you who seek His way and His truth. I had one concern with your discussion. At the 29:46 mark you were saying "years down the road after much prayer, much restoration, much healing that comes through that God might not have a ministry for him now . . . " I agree with all that you said but you left out the most important point - REPENTANCE! Without repentance there can be no restoration or healing - repentance is a change of mind, you no longer seek to do things your way but to walk and live God's way. I really believe that we need to take a step back and look at the situation and ask God to show us what He is doing, what He wants us to see. The Church in North America is in decline and I wonder why has He chosen this moment in time to bring into the light an ugliness within the Church. People will say he is such a great speaker, he handles the word of God so well, here in the comments: "James preaching simple, uncomplicated messages". Well these simple, uncomplicated messages did absolutely nothing to bring James into a right relationship with God and Jesus Christ. A man who is truly under the headship of Jesus Christ could not act the way James acts, do what James has done, or take what James has taken. You never want to be lead by a man who practices such great wickedness. I wonder what the apostle Paul would say about all this - I can't imagine how much sorrow this has brought to the heart of God Himself! We need to pray for James but we also need to pray for all the elders who were complicit in covering up and/or encouraging all of James disgraceful behaviours.
Jesus picked 12 apostles. (Men) God worked thru Adam God worked thru Abraham God worked thru Moses God worked thru David God NEVER changes God is working thru the pope today
FELIPE GARCIA only one mainline church in the world is against abortion The Roman Catholic Church All Churches on earth were against condoms from Jesus till 1930. Then all churches changed. Except one The Roman Catholic Church is still against condoms. God never changes. The Roman Catholic Church never Changes.
Do not rejoice in this. Pray! If you think your better than this, your fooling yourself. Nothing in us is good, only God’s Grace on us threw Jesus our Lord.
He was the Singles pastor at The Arlington heights Evangelical Free Church (Now the Orchard Evangelical Free Church) from 1986-1988. I found him an excellent Pastor, though I admit he was somewhat combative and competative. i learned lots from him and am sad that all this happened.
We never truly know what public people are like behind the scenes. I'm the pastor of a small church so everybody in the church knows what I am like because they all deal directly with me. There is no public face. I have no public.
I really like his teaching and I am sure that there are many more that feel as I do.. 1. We all miss it at times. 2.God does not take the gift he gives..3. Was it done (the release), in Decency and order.. Did the Elders in the Church go to him about his behavior/language/ etc... If they did and he continued in inappropriate behavior then the release is valid.. I am going to say where I truly believe the Church is in error at across America... We have made the Pastors/Ministers/Laymen Gods... Yes, I said it because someone should.. Do we respect their seat that they have been Chosen by God to be in, Yes!.. But God is our Head, if we do not hold the Shepherd accountable to being a Shepherd (some) will act Dominate toward the sheep.. Bad Behavior from a Shepherd (must) be "Confronted" before the sore of ugly Spreads and damages sheep/people....I love the Pastor and his teaching but if love is not shown from him then he must go.... The Church is being Judged right now, exposure is happening.. We must get back to being a Church of Decency and Order....
I started trying to go back and bear the problems of 'brick and mortar' churches recently...where in their Sunday School they used his video taped lessons. I found him to be an entertainer, but messed up the accurate version of the Word of God, to his own opinion. I could not believe that nobody else caught it...and NOW I know who he is, I won't be attending that Sunday School! I just realized who that guy was today! He is definitely full of himself and is NOT rightly divided at ALL!
Anyone who is in McDonald's position always needs spiritual oversight. If not a thorn in their side. Paul of Tarsus had both, and never used any funds, especially, to do anything but build up the True Church, according to the Book of Acts and often mentioned in his Epistles. He had humility, and was correctable, unlike many mega-church pastors of today, eyes full of dollar signs, and self-regard. Sex and money are Satan's tools to destroy ministers of the Word, though there is a way back via true repentence, but PRIDE, the ORIGINAL SIN, underpins everything, and it is insidious. This is why we need prayerful vigilance, support from one another (given in grace, received in humbleness), and the aforementioned oversight. If one person, and there are many I could name, becomes the central plank of any ministry, for whatever reason, and it is an easy pit to fall into, then they will overpower those they are with and leading. They will have to face G-d's dealing with, and any subsequent consequences if they do not listen and respond appropriately, but they are not beyond redemption in this life. Pau reminds Timothy that teachers and pastor WILL be judged more stringently than others at the Bema Seat, and it is something I rarely hear from the pulpit, front or "stage". Remember, the ministers need to be prayed for, and we need discernment not to not be caught up in the cult of personality, as Paul reminded the Corinthians, in 1 Corinthians. Shalom.
@@chrismaguire3667 Jesus came for the sick not for the well..And when it comes to Funds.. Let us all know this.. Just like they prayed on the matter and the decision was to let him go. Everyone who read this mostly said, okay to that even if they still miss him... But and I mean there is a But..These same people who made that decision are (board) and have to okay any Funds requested. Most churches have elders/board/people in place. Whose job also is to okay/reject funds asked for for any project concerning the Church and it's Church matters.. Now, my question really is as well.. Who is going to question them?? He is not by himself on that matter.... I personally think, ( my opinion only), he was asked to vacate mainly because of a Behavior that went out of control, far too long, that is a very sick person..And let me say this as well. Gods gifts are not taken from us. Even when we might have to sit and allow the Potter to heal/deliver/comfort/put us back together again.. GOD LOVES BROTHER MCDONALD..It is (supposed) to be Christens who walk in these Perfect shoes of Religion and those who are truly saved know that Jesus is the only one who walk in those Perfect shoes Perfectly.... Jesus was Stern with people like that in the bible. They were Pharisees/Sadducees/Scribes....And oh yea! He got Angry when he went into the House of the Lord and they were Money Changing....He did not choose one, scripture said, (They)......The reason I brought in the Money Changing scripture is because. Pastor Mcdonald and the Money issue was more than he..He had a board which I believe need to go as well because they seem to have okayed every request.. There is more to the millions missing, I believe that he is not alone...A Board Denies or Okays, plain and Simple...And as one who sat on a leadership Board not every Request asked for was granted...
@@dominics7565 I do not believe anyone exactly said that he was a bad Pastor. But he exhibited a behavior, (anger), that probably really was out of hand and if so..They probably watched it/took its lash far too long...God knows we will get angry but we cannot stay angry or either sin knocks at the door...
Thank you for mentioning how people tend to idolize preachers and how they are human. As humans, even preachers, are tempted to sin and can struggle to overcome issues. They are not bad nor unusable by God. The point made if Twitter or Facebook was around in Biblical times just imagine the scandals. I also urge people to pray for Pastor James and to be careful about casting stones. Thank you a great conversation. To God be the glory and blessings.
Isn’t it revealing to see believers threatening anybody not to throw stones at Pastor James. And using the flimsy excuse no one is perfect. Certainly he has no business being a pastor if he can’t control his temper and his profanity against members!
This is a good conversation to have. This doesn't surprise me anymore. After being devasted by a former pastor and wife I am prepared to face more stories like this. I am still working through my feelings about that situation. The top lesson I learned was that I looked up to the pastor (and my spouse) WAY too much. I idolized them and thought I just had to do whatever they said. I am glad that I do not think that way anymore even though I have to go through that bad and painful church experience. I guess I can look at James though I am detached from the situation so that makes it easier, and have some compassion for him in that he is just a man. Still there are consequences. For the hurt people...it sure helps them to be able to have support from others to work through the pain and not be judge or criticized for not getting over it as quick as others would like. The other lesson is I don't just take the pastors word or interpretation of the scriptures. I research it for myself and I think critically!
ladyesther35 as followers of Christ the Messiah we need to have a Berean spirit, Acts 17:11 the Bereans had a noble spirit, they received the message from Paul with great eagerness, and they examined the scriptures to see if it was true. We must always examined the word, and remember these preachers are men. God help us all to be sold out for you only. We need to forgive and pray for the bride. People get ready Jesus is coming! Let’s not let our love grow cold. Lord God be with us🙏🏼🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼🙏🏼 James McDonald preaching help me when I was becoming born-again. For that I am forever grateful, the word was coming alive to me. The word is my Jesus!my love! my Savior! my Christ the Messiah King!!!!
Mmmm..@9:16 the speaker is so on point...Thats why its so important for every Believer to have a personally relationship with God....Remember he want fail/nor disappoint you...but man will Fail/Disapoint...So..we must move on and pray for that Man of God that he will ask God to search his Heart in Jesus Name
Exactly, I didn't know about this because I was in and out on Facebook and didn't watch much tv,but I'm just doing so much of both now,God wouldn't let my spirit rest, because all the comments was disabled,on every video,I'm so happy for God always opening my eyes on pepole of this way.
Am glad I always follow Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit 100%.Preachers,evangelists and religious leaders not so much!.Men can be misleading but God always shows you in his word (the holy bible) the right path to heaven.
@@PInk77W1 Him Bike Really? Did you know that Karl's previous church still averages just 1 baptism a year? That's the same number as when he was there. Have you ever listened to any of the sermons at Harvest? Every week people come to Christ and every week at Harvest people are baptized. And every week people give their testimonies: Who they were before they met Jesus Christ, How they met Jesus, and How their lives are different since Jesus lives within them. This video has absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. And that is too bad. 26,000 itching ears and nothing about the Gospel is here for them to listen to.
I appreciate the thoughtful nature of the topic. I especially appreciate the strong Christian ethic of them as well as HBC. Even though McDonald's sins may not have risen to removal...IDK. Of course i am not a member of HBC nor a member of its boardt. But in the times we live in where churches have flowed more in the vain of pop culture.... so .I commend them for their ethical stand. Ironically, a level of props to McDonald, who founded the church. That he had such a clause in the church Bylaws to allow his removal should be noted.
This is great teaching for today's falling away church, hold on to the part that was in truth of scriptures not all was a lost in sinful falsehood before the fall. May God heal restore all affected by falling leadership past present and future we pray in Jesus name. Keep our eyes on Christ he's our perfect example.
My heart is so heavy. I pray that Jame McDonald and his family are well. He is a human after all, and is not perfect. So, we need to be mindful of that. God bless my bothers and sisters here on this site.
Is anybody ever reached out to him to pray with him that anybody go to try to restore him while we're going about trying to put the stuff out there The Bible says even shameful for us to speak of these things so I don't think this podcast should be doing that however I do think that if anything they should be talking about things that bring restoration to the whole because while we are talking about these people the church is suffering based on what this is and if anybody got any spiritual heartbeat or not bigot or corner in their flesh then this would not even be a part of this discourse so disappointed
To clarify. The board announced he was fired due to failure to “... be above reproach”. That is NOT the same as “fallen”, who for some indicates a turning from the Faith. - horrible word choice.
He needs to repent and step out of ministry, and get back with God. I fear this is just the beginning of the purging of the church leadership, getting prepared for the end time harvest. I watched pastor McDonald on TBN, until i started noticing an arrogants.
I noted this mans Giftedness and ability expound the word of God,but I also saw something that from time to time was not befitting to what was best in the eyes of those followers listeners,ultimately doers of the word. it's unfortunate but this needed to happen that he might correct the error of his way (blessings)pastor,all things work together for good to those that love the Lord to them who are the called according to his purpose.🤔
He was certainly a bully to many, many people. He had a harsh, arrogant, authoritarian preaching and management style. I attended Harvest for several years. He preached false Calvinist doctrine like eternal damnation.
They claim his daughter's ex did some nasty stuff and posted her on porn sites,.. so he got mad and wanted to kill him,.. the devil is attacking him hard,.. he needs our prayers, Not our criticism!
First let the Lord be your first and best teacher and Second don't listen to Celebrity Pastors and third don't put Pastors on pedatals. We are all on equal ground with tje Lord if we are Born again. And also don't throw your money at preachers who teach the Tithe LIE!
Fall fall ?? from what So this bro got fired maybe he was going through aome emotional trama So he fell from what ? ? Can some say from where did he fall from ?
Don't celebrate this news but make a post to bring all this out smearing the church in your first few minutes gossip slander and one side without representation. Congrats you make a joke of this. What to do. You bring a charge before the deacons you have a clear trial against him and representation for him and then charges in the church and bring the results to the members of the said charge weather to look at new leadership or to heal as a congregation. James reminds me of Paul also a sinner. He is not fallen just because he fell. So sad that this post was made. Capitalizing on the situation. Yes Jesus is still Lord pain is not the evidence of a charge. Please if you are gonna call stuff out be honest about how hard it is to be in leadership. A constant attack. If you gonna be a Sheppard then be an honest one.
Hi, Karl. I am in the unique position of attending both Riverside, your previous church, on Sunday mornings and Harvest Bible Chapel Saturday evenings until recently. My husband is still in charge of the coffee at Riverside just as he was when you were still there, so perhaps you know who I am. I want to share some thoughts about the comments you guys have made about the Harvest situation. But first, people always ask us why were we attracted to a mega Church, Harvest, and why did we go to it when we already attended Riverside? The fact is that when we first went to Riverside, the only opening for us in a Bible study was one that was studying Revelation. My husband had just come to Christ, had not even read the 4 Gospels yet, but was studying Revelation. He needed milk but since there wasn't any, he was trying to eat tough steak without even water to help wash it down! Then driving home from work down Randall, God showed Harvest to me with 'Saturday services' on their sign and we decided to go. While Pastor W at Riverside "peeled the onion" in his sermons which I needed, the teaching was simple but profound at Harvest for my husband, a new Christian. We immediately met people at Harvest who are now long-time friends, and almost every week Pastor James taught a short Gospel message embedded into his planned big message inviting people to come to Christ- which was very different from Riverside -and every week people at Harvest responded to the Gospel! Interestingly, we noticed how often Pastor James and Pastor W taught the same lessons from 2 different Bible passages. It happened so often that I seriously asked Pastor W if there was a "liturgical calendar of topics" Evangelical Pastors used because of the same lessons at both churches week after week and Pastor W laughed! Suffice it to say that we chose to be fed God's Word twice every week by attending 2 churches because He set it up for us that way! But when the troubles at Harvest came to a head in December, I noticed differences between big and small churches. Since all who claim Jesus Christ as Savior are brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, I expected that those in small churches would pray for us, would offer us comforting words, and remind us of Scriptures such as God's promises to us. This is what I learned in Harvest Bible studies-- we pray for and support each other in times of trouble whether in our Harvest community or not! Every believer is in the body of Christ! So I listened to Julie Roys being interviewed by ministers/DJs from small local churches on radio shows but in addition to them giving no reason for repeating the gossip about Pastor's and Harvest's sins in great detail, there were no prayers offered up on our behalf, no comforting words, and no Scripture to help build us up. Since the news media embellishes the gossip, it has been disheartening to hear those from our small church seeking gossip from us and eager to tell us what they know. Sad; very sad. I still puzzle over this since Cassidy on your show apparently thinks we who are the shell-shocked, the walking wounded, the remnant in Harvest, are to be our own pastors to each other with no spiritual help from the rest of the body outside Harvest. Is this Scriptural? I really feel abandoned by Cassidy's statement. I asked Ms. Roys to share her testimony on her blog; but soon after she posted it, she took it down; it was a testimony about her family, not about Jesus in her life. Since then I heard her again and while she has changed it, it's still about her and little about Jesus in her life. My point here is that I do not understand why Christians wholeheartedly believe "investigative reporters" who say they are Christians-- What is the vetting process to determine who these people are? Do they have personal agendas against certain pastors and churches? Should they be considered "teachers" according to Biblical standards since Christians are listening to and following them and their advice, even their demands? How are these "Christian" journalists different from typical media reporters? Should they consider the fall-out, the hatred and persecution against those of us who choose to remain at Harvest? Are you aware of the security men who are stationed at Harvest campuses? Can you guess why they are needed? Finally, you may want to hold off on canonizing Mancow, alias Matthew Erich Muller. I and several friends had repeatedly asked him to really be a shock jock and share his testimony on his morning WLS radio show: Who he was before he met Christ; How he met Christ; and How accepting Christ into his heart has changed him to be more like Jesus. He responded to us by saying it was not the time to share the Gospel (Karl- do you agree?) and then he blocked us completely from his site. I also suggest you listen to Mancow's shows. On Valentine's day his guests included a fake preacher who said Jesus is no different from any of us people, and a dominatrix who was more lovable and far less scary than the "preacher" on his show. Karl- I hope that things go well for you. But I think it is a sad statement when the troubles and possible breaking up of a church are the hot topics of gossip across the body of Christ and not the teachings of God's Word, the Bible, as preached in sermons by Pastors in mega and little Churches alike. Our prayers and God's blessings for you and your family-
You guys are doing a terrible job! The word of God is the word of God. We all live under grace. This man has done great work for the Lord and I believe he truly loves the Lord. How dare you be his executor and judge
Do the people in the comments who think that they need to know all of the dirt of what happened. This is all you really need to know. We are not entitled to our own opinions about other Christians. Do not forget how much God has forgiven you. We are not entitled to know everything that's happened. Every Christian needs to learn to be open and transparent about what's truly in their hearts and get prayer and seek God for continual Deliverance and sanctification. Every Christian needs accountability partners. No Christian person is too strong and has such a great following that they are not susceptible to falling and failing and missing the mark like we all do every single day.
I'm sorry people in GOD that take a chance on hurting GOD,and their walk in CHRIST because they need to stay sensitive to GOD watching their life I pray for those who go there,I'm not going there it's too late in time for stupidity mess ups people don't know when their leaving here why not stay ready? Don't you want to make GOD happy with his investment in us?
Why can't you just say what you want to say and not Draaaaaaaaaaaaag it out? ... so boring, so boring. So you think it's your place to tear apart Christians who have missed the mark, like you never have. Please, get a job where Christians are not criticized.
I never dreamed to see so many pastors sell out the approval of God for the approval of man. The spirit of pride from our leaders is totally unacceptable.
Thank you for your discussion on this topic. I've been having discussions with other RUclipsrs that have been discussing this situation. You are the only ones I have heard speak the same way as I have on this topic. Just because someone falls, does not negate all the good and works done by that person prior to falling. Christians are so quick to judge a leader by tossing out everything the person has done in Christ. Christians forget, we would need to toss out major parts of scripture for the same reason these Christians judge other Christians today.
Just remember as we comment on this video that we all fall short of the glory of God. Great video though.
Give us all a break okay stop making excuses
Least of Saints MC Erie Crew we do, but the church leaders are called to a higher accountability, and are expected to have higher standards.
No excuse. Fact. And you are correct. The leaders of GOD'S word will be held accountable more by GOD. Not defending MacDonald here. However, pletty of people around to point fingers at. Starting with the elders down to the person sitting in the pew. I pray for all involved. This a great time to look at the word of God first and not of men. Seek the Kingdom first and not our earthly ways.
Least of Saints MC Erie Crew some elders did confront him in 2013. JM had them removed....that’s the type of power he wielded. He then filed frivolous lawsuits to try to keep the truth from getting out..
I was a longtime listener and follower of Walk in the Word ministry and of Dr. James Mc Donald. His ministry has touched and changed my LIFE and helped set me and my family on this spirtual journey!!! God bless HIM and his family and God's continued work in the Harvest ministry!!!
He may have helped you but he is abusive.
He was indited also for attempting to hire a hitman. And made child porn references.
What we see happening in the world today, with all the corruption. We have to remember that the word of God says judgment begins in the house of the Lord. So what’s happening in the churches that God is dealing with it’s because he can’t deal with the world until He deals with the church,Bless you for this very good post
I'm grieving this soo much. I can't come to terms that my place of hope has gone this way. I need to pray and cry out to my Lord and saviour Jesus Chris.
I really love to hear this man preach I really love the message it was really helpful especially when he did the elephant room I thought this was real good in spite of his struggles or what he has he's a brother and we need to love him unconditionally we don't throw our own to the wolves
I think it is great to discuss the issue of the church and how to handle their pain, I have been following and supporting the ministry for many years and I do not think that those who believe in the simple Bible based message have a problem with James' preaching simple uncomplicated messages and I do not think people will be tossing his preaching dvd's in the bin as much as you might think judging by what feedback I have been getting they are supporting each other through their grief and I have not heard too many harsh statements due to the fallout of losing a respected pastor as you might think. Is it troubling of course, I will tell you that I wept when I heard this news but my faith did not waver I prayed earnestly for James and his family and I know that God has a plan and will continue to use the church in Chicago. I feel that the Walk in the Word platform worked because of its uncomplicated Bible message and still do. The real issue I think that is far more damaging is James not coming forward to address his congregation as a whole via online where a lot of his listeners have become acquainted with him. I think I feel let down more by his lack of acknowledging his church in the broad sense of the word. Not so he can be bashed or ridiculed but so he can get Christian feedback and encouragement and perhaps hear that people will be praying for him and his family. James like the rest of us is flesh and is just as frail and weak and susceptible to the wiles as we are and it is sad but as Christians we should be caring forgiving and moving on with God's work. Having said that I am also grieved for those who are not Christians who hear yet another story of a high profile Christian in the media and the damage that this does to a not quite there listener that turns his back entirely on the Word of God. God help us to forgive and love and serve as Christ showed by HIs example.
NOT JUST HIM...WHERE WERE THE OTHERS...CECK AND BALANCE NOW OTHER OF HARVEST LEADERS ARE SAYING THEY KNEW...THE MONEY SHOULD GO TO THE ORPHANS AND WIDOWS. NOT ALL THESE RICH PASTORS...EVERYTHING THAT IS HIDDEN WILL BE REVILED .. JUDGEMENT BEGINGS IN THE HOUSE OF GOD...DO NOT CALL IT GRIEF...MY HUSBAND AND CHILD DIED...THAT IS GRIEF.....HE WILL BE FORGIVEN IF HE REPENTS LIKE JIM BAKER...JIMMY SWAGGERT...ETC. .LOOK AT THE BIG CHURCHES..KEN COPELAND. JOINING WITH THE POPE...ONE WORLD CHURCH...ONE WORLD ORDER...WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING YET...EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN WILL BE SHAKEN...ALL OF US MUST REPENT AND HUMBBLE OURSELFS....I PRAY FOR HIM THAT HE DOES NOT TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT....WHEN MY CHILD DIED AND HUSBAND ...THE DEVIL TOLD ME TO KILL MYSELF....WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO US IN THIS WORLD...YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO TO HE'LL FOR ETERNITY. PRAY FOR EACH OTHER
He doesn't care about anybody, but himself.
There's always going to be people who criticize Pastors who fall and think they know the whole story. You said my heart exactly brother, and I appreciate Christians like you who understand the nature of a Christ follower and not just another judgmental critic. I've listened to James MacDonald for a while and know, yes know, the Holy Spirit was guiding his messages which is why I'm grieved just like you. I know people are only speaking their true natures when they criticize without simply praying to the merciful God we serve in the name of the sacrificial lamb, Jesus about fallen leaders, so when I see heartfelt words like yours I understand that you're speaking from the Spirit of God and not just another stone thrower. God bless you brother.
After all I've seen so far of his offenses against the body, you guys did a stellar job of putting these situation in a Biblical context- for the building up of the saints. Many will use this fallout as excuse to not only break fellowship (Like I once did and backslid!) or start attacking the church like the liberals do. We are to do all things in love and you guys are doing it. I was thinking...wouldn't it be great if James stood before the congregation to receive his discipline publicly. He should see the faces of those he has betrayed. They should see him with a repentant spirit. They are in a tremendous debt and he needs to pay it back.
And I am in tremendous debt to God for teaching me His Word so powerfully through His messenger Pastor James.
Its understandable to be hurt and even angry with what happen...please dont let the spirit of offence take over. You gave of your time and tithes and offerings with a good heart to God not these men, It is on them and God will deal with that. Let the anger and resistance go God has plan for you stay focused.
Quote: "We don't celebrate this..." I take the view of "I celebrate this" because those "church" leaders/elders FINALLY grew a pair and took action. The "board" is just as guilty as James MacDonald. I "celebrate this" because it's Truth triumphing and satan being defeated...again. "God NEVER TOLD US to build church buildings for a 'church'." Think.
Amen John Johnson
Video from a former member of Harvest Bible Chapter under James Macdonald
VIDEO
ruclips.net/video/L4lpYgAjG0Q/видео.html
My Response:
These Reprobates who make merchandise of the unlearned. 2 Peter 2:3... I've never been to Harvest but I've seen James Macdonald's disgusting beggar video that screams hypocrisy promoting unbiblical social gospel and encourages Pathological Altruism. Please see link below. Please take a moment to read Blog of my personal testimony of 50 years of attending church (literally hundreds, Black churches, Korean, Mega, Evangelical, Baptist, AOG, TV ministries RUclips ,all over the United States and around the world) a thoroughly documented experience in the fraudulent 501C3 building operations, including even the private enterprises and foreign operations calling themselves churches that are run by mostly Jesuit influenced Seminary trained apostate CEOs calling themselves pastors. We have recently completed an 800 page Ebook with over 2,000 source based references to substantiate every detail and we also include solid King James Bible referenced doctrine that has completely been removed from every church operation. We will send a free copy of our Ebook to anyone who requests a copy by emailing us in link attached or people can purchase the $0.99 Ebook on Amazon direct. Or people can simply read through the Blogs attached in links below to glean information that is essential in understanding what's happening today in these churches. I begin with first hand accounts of my days going back to our home church of Calvary Temple in Denver Colorado when Charles E Blair was arrested on SEC violations in 1975-6, 17 counts of securities fraud and still only a fraction was ever repaid of the millions parishioners lost to Blair's Ponzi scheme. This is only a drop in the ocean of what is going on in churches today. I detail it in my Blog. One of my favorite to date is me on the phone with Kenneth Copeland ministries asking to speak to Kenneth about how my seed faith money of over $80,000. in multiple ministries including his, wasn't working out very well as we were losing our home. Or my years in Viet Nam to learn the extent of the Vatican's infiltration etc. Praise God I have now been homechurching and fellowshipping in small groups the same way I did in the underground church movement while living in Vietnam and visiting China. I'm now retired and have committed my life to exposing the Apostate Church and Charlatans that are fleecing the flock. Thank you.
thirdheaventraveler.blogspot.com/2018/12/i-don-go-to-church-from-blood-bought.html
thirdheaventraveler.blogspot.com/2019/02/social-gospel-is-not-only-not-biblical.html
thirdheaventraveler.blogspot.com/2018/06/who-are-you-amir-tsarfati-my-brother-in.html
thirdheaventraveler.blogspot.com/2018/12/an-open-letter-of-rebuke-to-stones.html
John Johnson It is the Lord that is chastening for sure, but it is not good satan was able to affect a saint causing them (him) to fall!
Oh,please.. satan got away with it. !!!
@@vietrandy1 Thank you brothers for doing what we are supposed to be doing. The modern church is failing in many ways. We now have the cult of personalities not Jesus.
Sorry to tell you this but according to historical acknowledge christianity was found it by the Roman empire and his legion of pagan mithological priests and all with the benefit of control of the masses. ActuallyThey were called followers of the Messiah (YAHSHUA) and not jesus(pagan satanic originated name few hundred years ago by monks or people in Roman hierarchy with a demonic meaning) that mayority of people are clueless...just pay a simple little observation and please dont shut down your common sense. : Rome (Vatican) the mother harlot of all of them . Pastors had been deceived and leading people to perpetual hell for many many years. Satan and his demons have twisted the criptures thousands of times .
Amen brothers. We are the under shepherds and can't forget this fact. It's Christ's church that He allows us the great privilege of shepherding. I pastor a small church and it's true for small church pastors and pastors of large ones. Blessings to you. Thanks for this great warning you have brought up. For any of us could falter as brother James has. May the Lord be with Him and bring him to where He wants him to go.
The truths of God will prevail regardless of the fallen leader speaking the message.
Pride is a sin and not one is immune from this sin.
I for one will pray for brother James, it,s so unreal to not know this hurts his family as well, he alone will have to look to his savior for his needed answers.
Are you serious??..he's living laaaaarge!!...please keep praying for him would you. ??.🙄🙄🙄
I pray for the victims.
@@khappy1286 I'm so happy you're one of the few to say that. 👌👍
Hurts his family ??! Oh no no!!!! He did this to them. They benefited from him mid appropriations of funds. He should be arrested!
@@lionessrising He's(JMcdonal) down to earth a total scumbag scammer parasite predestinated to destroy congregation's spirit and as always. : theres some idiots still insisting to pray for that parasite,Satan is also a true believer of lies and Deceivement so most like many that is born have the tendency to get fooled because ignorance of the TRUTH
He was a good psstor too, I'd listen to him on the radio at 12:30pm week days.
Was he?..psshh!..obiously he as to start been good but once the cash flowed in gradually into his pocket then what, so who's fault?..both elders & him...ops! Correction:Satans fault 😂🤣😫😂🤣🤣LOL!!!..so keep praying hard ok?
..
I have belonged to Harvest, I felt it was run more like a corporation then the way a church should run.😥
Gail, I am the pastor of a small church. Can you give me some details on what you are saying? Give me some examples of what you saw and how you think things should have run. Thanks.
So many comments reflect “Praying for James.” How many years will it take for those of you who say “Fallen Pastor” to pay attention to those of us who were Members?
I understand yes the body is the one we should be praying for ❤️🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 I cant even imagine the pain and brokenness and it was more then J M falling it was a complete corruption from the inside this business elders and inner circle were all yes men to J M while he fleeced and abused his powers! This “church” aka cult took in a half billion dollars in 12 years and yet they are 43 million dollars in debt?? Per JD they excommunicated three elders who dared to stand up to him there’s so much ugliness at HBC I don’t even think people have a clue what was really going on yet
Susan Hall not unless they were. Member I would recon ?
Listen you people who were members. This guy is right. There were 4-5 uppis men in his let's say who served him and knew what he was doing. They asked him to step down already in 2010 or 2011, and he refused. Those 4-5 men, who had the guts to ask him,, ALL left the church. A real loss to the members. Then, one man came to Wi to be an associate pastor. Guess what, when the congregation found out, because it was another Harvest church, members dropped out in droves. Then another small Harvest extension church merged and got a new pastor. That was fine. But that Harvest church was racked by 2 more scandals following this . More members left. The associate pastor retired and eventually the senior pastor stepped down. They have no senior pastor. That Harvest church in Wi has just a skeleton crew of staff plus once again, members left. Now I ask you, who is suffering the most, the pastor who can go back and hide in his mansion and go about his life in a wealthy manner and eventually head another church OR ALL THE MEMBERS WHO WORSHIPPED THIS MAN A
ND GAVE AND GAVE TO SUPPORT HIS PRIDE, ARROGANCE, ETC, DO YOU NOT PRAY AND WEEP FOR THEM WHO HAVE BEEN ROBBED AND BETRAYED. AND WHAT ABOUT THE ELDERS THAT DIDN'T WALK AWAY. THAT PASTOR NOT ONLY HURT THE MEMBERS BUT VIOLATED HIS POSITION and how about those extension churches and all those members, more thousands. Believe me, Go's is truly shaking his church, started with Christ church in New Zealand with THE big earthquake as a sign. There will be more in all DENOMINATIONS coming soon. Willow creeks pastor and elders stepped down and 500 Catholic priests in illinois are accused of abuse. Now tell me, who has been truly hurt, betrayed, ETC. The pastors who have fallen off their pedestals or the members who may never attend another church again. The small church leaders are just as guilty of this also. Building their own kingdom instead of God's kingdom, ie, James, baker, Jimmy swagger, ETC. And what about any missionaries and their families and members in different countries that the missionary families served and their work in building God's kingdom. Yes, God is truly separating the goats from the sheep and the sheep from the sheep. I don't attend any church now because I have grown to dislike ORGANIZED RELIGION. You members watch David Heveaners RUclips interview with Christy who was a member from 1996-2013, served for years. And devastated by all of this happening. Actually, she has 2 videos on this subject. People, ALL of us, wake up and start to hold these leaders accountable before God and your congregation. And by the way, when you do, those leaders and those covering up, will make sure you are silenced or ostracized from your church. And the tv evangelists, not all, are the worst because they are leading millions of their followers to he'll, who worship them and support them. God founded his church to preach the gospel and get people saved for eternity to be with Him not for leaders yo build their own kingdoms on earth. The churches in America have no discernment. If anything, PRAY that God give us believers, DISCERNMENT. I grieve for you members because I know what you are going through.
May God bless you and continue to heal your brokeness and your congregation.
@kryptoday Where is your pity for his victims? Kryptoday?
What exactly happened? What happened to you members?
I was very disappointed when I heard about this. Very surprised as well. Unexpected to hear this from a senior pastor like James Macdonald. Still, hope he is well. No one on God's Green Earth is perfect. We all have our flaws. God Bless...🙏🙏🙏
God used his ministry to literally save my life. Never saw him/ any ministry more than what they are. Always remember David, a man after God's own heart that NO ONE WOULD DESIRE TO HAVE AS A NEIGHBOR in this hypocritical, "publican" world today. Don't excuse the behavior, just extending Samaritan hand of prayer. Hope he restored soon with much wisdom from experience.
I enjoyed your video and your sincere hearts in addressing the firing of James MacDonald. Praise God for people like you who seek His way and His truth. I had one concern with your discussion. At the 29:46 mark you were saying "years down the road after much prayer, much restoration, much healing that comes through that God might not have a ministry for him now . . . " I agree with all that you said but you left out the most important point - REPENTANCE! Without repentance there can be no restoration or healing - repentance is a change of mind, you no longer seek to do things your way but to walk and live God's way.
I really believe that we need to take a step back and look at the situation and ask God to show us what He is doing, what He wants us to see. The Church in North America is in decline and I wonder why has He chosen this moment in time to bring into the light an ugliness within the Church. People will say he is such a great speaker, he handles the word of God so well, here in the comments: "James preaching simple, uncomplicated messages". Well these simple, uncomplicated messages did absolutely nothing to bring James into a right relationship with God and Jesus Christ. A man who is truly under the headship of Jesus Christ could not act the way James acts, do what James has done, or take what James has taken. You never want to be lead by a man who practices such great wickedness. I wonder what the apostle Paul would say about all this - I can't imagine how much sorrow this has brought to the heart of God Himself!
We need to pray for James but we also need to pray for all the elders who were complicit in covering up and/or encouraging all of James disgraceful behaviours.
Eyes on Jesus Christ ...don,t lose focus...it's not about men.
Sure,dont look focus...😫😫😫
Jesus picked 12 apostles. (Men)
God worked thru Adam
God worked thru Abraham
God worked thru Moses
God worked thru David
God NEVER changes
God is working thru the pope today
@@PInk77W1 what!!!??..the pope??? Are you serious?..I know you're joking. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
FELIPE GARCIA only one mainline church in the world is against abortion
The Roman Catholic Church
All Churches on earth were against condoms from Jesus till 1930.
Then all churches changed.
Except one
The Roman Catholic Church is still against condoms.
God never changes.
The Roman Catholic Church never
Changes.
@@PInk77W1 again?..that's hipocricy . You must be clueless and inocent..you have a lot to learn boy!.
They speak in grand generalities; so vague. What exactly happened? You want to warn other churches not to do what happened there? Well, what happened?
nosy
Everyone goes through a test or falls. King David did. James has to go through the test. He will decide with free will what he will do.
Yes!
what happened to forgiveness??? I thought that was the whole theme of the bible and the teaching thereof, i could never throw the first stone!
Do not rejoice in this. Pray! If you think your better than this, your fooling yourself. Nothing in us is good, only God’s Grace on us threw Jesus our Lord.
Why are so many comment sections about this scandal disabled
He was the Singles pastor at The Arlington heights Evangelical Free Church (Now the Orchard Evangelical Free Church) from 1986-1988. I found him an excellent Pastor, though I admit he was somewhat combative and competative. i learned lots from him and am sad that all this happened.
he pulled the wool over my eyes. Wolf in sheep's clothing.
We never truly know what public people are like behind the scenes. I'm the pastor of a small church so everybody in the church knows what I am like because they all deal directly with me. There is no public face. I have no public.
I really like his teaching and I am sure that there are many more that feel as I do.. 1. We all miss it at times. 2.God does not take the gift he gives..3. Was it done (the release), in Decency and order.. Did the Elders in the Church go to him about his behavior/language/ etc... If they did and he continued in inappropriate behavior then the release is valid.. I am going to say where I truly believe the Church is in error at across America... We have made the Pastors/Ministers/Laymen Gods... Yes, I said it because someone should.. Do we respect their seat that they have been Chosen by God to be in, Yes!.. But God is our Head, if we do not hold the Shepherd accountable to being a Shepherd (some) will act Dominate toward the sheep.. Bad Behavior from a Shepherd (must) be "Confronted" before the sore of ugly Spreads and damages sheep/people....I love the Pastor and his teaching but if love is not shown from him then he must go.... The Church is being Judged right now, exposure is happening.. We must get back to being a Church of Decency and Order....
I started trying to go back and bear the problems of 'brick and mortar' churches recently...where in their Sunday School they used his video taped lessons. I found him to be an entertainer, but messed up the accurate version of the Word of God, to his own opinion. I could not believe that nobody else caught it...and NOW I know who he is, I won't be attending that Sunday School! I just realized who that guy was today! He is definitely full of himself and is NOT rightly divided at ALL!
Anyone who is in McDonald's position always needs spiritual oversight. If not a thorn in their side.
Paul of Tarsus had both, and never used any funds, especially, to do anything but build up the True Church, according to the Book of Acts and often mentioned in his Epistles. He had humility, and was correctable, unlike many mega-church pastors of today, eyes full of dollar signs, and self-regard.
Sex and money are Satan's tools to destroy ministers of the Word, though there is a way back via true repentence, but PRIDE, the ORIGINAL SIN, underpins everything, and it is insidious. This is why we need prayerful vigilance, support from one another (given in grace, received in humbleness), and the aforementioned oversight.
If one person, and there are many I could name, becomes the central plank of any ministry, for whatever reason, and it is an easy pit to fall into, then they will overpower those they are with and leading. They will have to face G-d's dealing with, and any subsequent consequences if they do not listen and respond appropriately, but they are not beyond redemption in this life. Pau reminds Timothy that teachers and pastor WILL be judged more stringently than others at the Bema Seat, and it is something I rarely hear from the pulpit, front or "stage". Remember, the ministers need to be prayed for, and we need discernment not to not be caught up in the cult of personality, as Paul reminded the Corinthians, in 1 Corinthians. Shalom.
@@chrismaguire3667 Jesus came for the sick not for the well..And when it comes to Funds.. Let us all know this.. Just like they prayed on the matter and the decision was to let him go. Everyone who read this mostly said, okay to that even if they still miss him... But and I mean there is a But..These same people who made that decision are (board) and have to okay any Funds requested. Most churches have elders/board/people in place. Whose job also is to okay/reject funds asked for for any project concerning the Church and it's Church matters.. Now, my question really is as well.. Who is going to question them?? He is not by himself on that matter.... I personally think, ( my opinion only), he was asked to vacate mainly because of a Behavior that went out of control, far too long, that is a very sick person..And let me say this as well. Gods gifts are not taken from us. Even when we might have to sit and allow the Potter to heal/deliver/comfort/put us back together again.. GOD LOVES BROTHER MCDONALD..It is (supposed) to be Christens who walk in these Perfect shoes of Religion and those who are truly saved know that Jesus is the only one who walk in those Perfect shoes Perfectly.... Jesus was Stern with people like that in the bible. They were Pharisees/Sadducees/Scribes....And oh yea! He got Angry when he went into the House of the Lord and they were Money Changing....He did not choose one, scripture said, (They)......The reason I brought in the Money Changing scripture is because. Pastor Mcdonald and the Money issue was more than he..He had a board which I believe need to go as well because they seem to have okayed every request.. There is more to the millions missing, I believe that he is not alone...A Board Denies or Okays, plain and Simple...And as one who sat on a leadership Board not every Request asked for was granted...
Was he really bad though???
@@dominics7565 I do not believe anyone exactly said that he was a bad Pastor. But he exhibited a behavior, (anger), that probably really was out of hand and if so..They probably watched it/took its lash far too long...God knows we will get angry but we cannot stay angry or either sin knocks at the door...
Thank you for mentioning how people tend to idolize preachers and how they are human. As humans, even preachers, are tempted to sin and can struggle to overcome issues. They are not bad nor unusable by God. The point made if Twitter or Facebook was around in Biblical times just imagine the scandals. I also urge people to pray for Pastor James and to be careful about casting stones. Thank you a great conversation. To God be the glory and blessings.
Many people fail to realize this
Isn’t it revealing to see believers threatening anybody not to throw stones at Pastor James. And using the flimsy excuse no one is perfect. Certainly he has no business being a pastor if he can’t control his temper and his profanity against members!
The elders have failed to prevent this outcome with a more pro active development mentality
They can fire him but they should be fired
This is a good conversation to have. This doesn't surprise me anymore. After being devasted by a former pastor and wife I am prepared to face more stories like this. I am still working through my feelings about that situation. The top lesson I learned was that I looked up to the pastor (and my spouse) WAY too much. I idolized them and thought I just had to do whatever they said. I am glad that I do not think that way anymore even though I have to go through that bad and painful church experience. I guess I can look at James though I am detached from the situation so that makes it easier, and have some compassion for him in that he is just a man. Still there are consequences. For the hurt people...it sure helps them to be able to have support from others to work through the pain and not be judge or criticized for not getting over it as quick as others would like. The other lesson is I don't just take the pastors word or interpretation of the scriptures. I research it for myself and I think critically!
ladyesther35 as followers of Christ the Messiah we need to have a Berean spirit, Acts 17:11 the Bereans had a noble spirit, they received the message from Paul with great eagerness, and they examined the scriptures to see if it was true. We must always examined the word, and remember these preachers are men. God help us all to be sold out for you only. We need to forgive and pray for the bride. People get ready Jesus is coming! Let’s not let our love grow cold. Lord God be with us🙏🏼🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼🙏🏼 James McDonald preaching help me when I was becoming born-again. For that I am forever grateful, the word was coming alive to me. The word is my Jesus!my love! my Savior! my Christ the Messiah King!!!!
I will pray for all the VICTIMS and their families at HBC.
What happened?
Thank you
Mmmm..@9:16 the speaker is so on point...Thats why its so important for every Believer to have a personally relationship with God....Remember he want fail/nor disappoint you...but man will Fail/Disapoint...So..we must move on and pray for that Man of God that he will ask God to search his Heart in Jesus Name
Exactly, I didn't know about this because I was in and out on Facebook and didn't watch much tv,but I'm just doing so much of both now,God wouldn't let my spirit rest, because all the comments was disabled,on every video,I'm so happy for God always opening my eyes on pepole of this way.
Am glad I always follow Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit 100%.Preachers,evangelists and religious leaders not so much!.Men can be misleading but God always shows you in his word (the holy bible) the right path to heaven.
Judgment begins in the house of GOD. First Willow Creek, now Harvest.
Too bad the presentation of the Gospel was not part of this podcast.
23,200 views and people are still tuning in...
Harvest Bible Chapel has nothing to do with the Gospel
@@PInk77W1
Him Bike
Really? Did you know that Karl's previous church still averages just 1 baptism a year? That's the same number as when he was there.
Have you ever listened to any of the sermons at Harvest? Every week people come to Christ and every week at Harvest people are baptized. And every week people give their testimonies: Who they were before they met Jesus Christ, How they met Jesus, and How their lives are different since Jesus lives within them.
This video has absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. And that is too bad. 26,000 itching ears and nothing about the Gospel is here for them to listen to.
I appreciate the thoughtful nature of the topic. I especially appreciate the strong Christian ethic of them as well as HBC.
Even though McDonald's sins may not have risen to removal...IDK. Of course i am not a member of HBC nor a member of its boardt. But in the times we live in where churches have flowed more in the vain of pop culture.... so .I commend them for their ethical stand.
Ironically, a level of props to McDonald, who founded the church. That he had such a clause in the church Bylaws to allow his removal should be noted.
This is great teaching for today's falling away church, hold on to the part that was in truth of scriptures not all was a lost in sinful falsehood before the fall. May God heal restore all affected by falling leadership past present and future we pray in Jesus name. Keep our eyes on Christ he's our perfect example.
I would like to know, what did he say?
This was incredible. Thank you so much.
My heart is so heavy. I pray that Jame McDonald and his family are well. He is a human after all, and is not perfect. So, we need to be mindful of that. God bless my bothers and sisters here on this site.
Yes eyes back on Jesus not on a man standing behind a pulpit Jesus said my sheep hear my voice we should know when something isn’t right with someone.
Pray for your pastor folks. Pray for your pastor
Is anybody ever reached out to him to pray with him that anybody go to try to restore him while we're going about trying to put the stuff out there The Bible says even shameful for us to speak of these things so I don't think this podcast should be doing that however I do think that if anything they should be talking about things that bring restoration to the whole because while we are talking about these people the church is suffering based on what this is and if anybody got any spiritual heartbeat or not bigot or corner in their flesh then this would not even be a part of this discourse so disappointed
To clarify. The board announced he was fired due to failure to “... be above reproach”. That is NOT the same as “fallen”, who for some indicates a turning from the Faith. - horrible word choice.
I know God will restore pastor James Mcdonald's name and heal him.
Yes and even more so we should pray for his victims.
@@CloseEncounters1 I am not sure what he did wrong I only know he was fired at his church. Would you shade some light of what he did wrong?
He better not try to start a new church in the same area so he can take people away from Harvest. I've seen this before and it really bothers me.
He abused people verbally, made child porn references and abused finances.
He was indited also for attempting to hire a hitman.
He needs to repent and step out of ministry, and get back with God. I fear this is just the beginning of the purging of the church leadership, getting prepared for the end time harvest. I watched pastor McDonald on TBN, until i started noticing an arrogants.
Good conversation, God bless
What did he do exactly? I’m still not sure....
I noted this mans Giftedness and ability expound the word of God,but I also saw something that from time to time was not befitting to what was best in the eyes of those followers listeners,ultimately doers of the word. it's unfortunate but this needed to happen that he might correct the error of his way (blessings)pastor,all things work together for good to those that love the Lord to them who are the called according to his purpose.🤔
Search his name on Google and click the "News" tab.
From what i understand he was a bully & he stole from the people/church. I am devastated
He was certainly a bully to many, many people. He had a harsh, arrogant, authoritarian preaching and management style. I attended Harvest for several years. He preached false Calvinist doctrine like eternal damnation.
They claim his daughter's ex did some nasty stuff and posted her on porn sites,.. so he got mad and wanted to kill him,.. the devil is attacking him hard,.. he needs our prayers, Not our criticism!
Heard him a couple of times. Wasn't really impressed. Could hear the pride in his voice... PRAY FOR DISCERNMENT....
First let the Lord be your first and best teacher and Second don't listen to Celebrity Pastors and third don't put Pastors on pedatals. We are all on equal ground with tje Lord if we are Born again. And also don't throw your money at preachers who teach the Tithe LIE!
James Mcdonald is no Elijah or Peter. I hope James repents and that he is a brother. But he does not belong in the Pulpit ever again!!!
Genavieve Shaw amen and hallelujah to that but don’t let Liz C know you said that 😊😂
What exactly did he say and do? I've never found anything on the specifics.
Fall fall ?? from what So this bro got fired maybe he was going through aome emotional trama So he fell from what ? ? Can some say from where did he fall from ?
Don't celebrate this news but make a post to bring all this out smearing the church in your first few minutes gossip slander and one side without representation. Congrats you make a joke of this. What to do. You bring a charge before the deacons you have a clear trial against him and representation for him and then charges in the church and bring the results to the members of the said charge weather to look at new leadership or to heal as a congregation. James reminds me of Paul also a sinner. He is not fallen just because he fell. So sad that this post was made. Capitalizing on the situation. Yes Jesus is still Lord pain is not the evidence of a charge. Please if you are gonna call stuff out be honest about how hard it is to be in leadership. A constant attack. If you gonna be a Sheppard then be an honest one.
Jesus said we are all brethren.
Hi, Karl.
I am in the unique position of attending both Riverside, your previous church, on Sunday mornings and Harvest Bible Chapel Saturday evenings until recently. My husband is still in charge of the coffee at Riverside just as he was when you were still there, so perhaps you know who I am.
I want to share some thoughts about the comments you guys have made about the Harvest situation.
But first, people always ask us why were we attracted to a mega Church, Harvest, and why did we go to it when we already attended Riverside? The fact is that when we first went to Riverside, the only opening for us in a Bible study was one that was studying Revelation. My husband had just come to Christ, had not even read the 4 Gospels yet, but was studying Revelation. He needed milk but since there wasn't any, he was trying to eat tough steak without even water to help wash it down!
Then driving home from work down Randall, God showed Harvest to me with 'Saturday services' on their sign and we decided to go. While Pastor W at Riverside "peeled the onion" in his sermons which I needed, the teaching was simple but profound at Harvest for my husband, a new Christian.
We immediately met people at Harvest who are now long-time friends, and almost every week Pastor James taught a short Gospel message embedded into his planned big message inviting people to come to Christ- which was very different from Riverside -and every week people at Harvest responded to the Gospel!
Interestingly, we noticed how often Pastor James and Pastor W taught the same lessons from 2 different Bible passages. It happened so often that I seriously asked Pastor W if there was a "liturgical calendar of topics" Evangelical Pastors used because of the same lessons at both churches week after week and Pastor W laughed! Suffice it to say that we chose to be fed God's Word twice every week by attending 2 churches because He set it up for us that way!
But when the troubles at Harvest came to a head in December, I noticed differences between big and small churches. Since all who claim Jesus Christ as Savior are brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, I expected that those in small churches would pray for us, would offer us comforting words, and remind us of Scriptures such as God's promises to us. This is what I learned in Harvest Bible studies-- we pray for and support each other in times of trouble whether in our Harvest community or not! Every believer is in the body of Christ!
So I listened to Julie Roys being interviewed by ministers/DJs from small local churches on radio shows but in addition to them giving no reason for repeating the gossip about Pastor's and Harvest's sins in great detail, there were no prayers offered up on our behalf, no comforting words, and no Scripture to help build us up. Since the news media embellishes the gossip, it has been disheartening to hear those from our small church seeking gossip from us and eager to tell us what they know. Sad; very sad.
I still puzzle over this since Cassidy on your show apparently thinks we who are the shell-shocked, the walking wounded, the remnant in Harvest, are to be our own pastors to each other with no spiritual help from the rest of the body outside Harvest. Is this Scriptural? I really feel abandoned by Cassidy's statement.
I asked Ms. Roys to share her testimony on her blog; but soon after she posted it, she took it down; it was a testimony about her family, not about Jesus in her life. Since then I heard her again and while she has changed it, it's still about her and little about Jesus in her life.
My point here is that I do not understand why Christians wholeheartedly believe "investigative reporters" who say they are Christians-- What is the vetting process to determine who these people are? Do they have personal agendas against certain pastors and churches? Should
they be considered "teachers" according to Biblical standards since Christians are listening to and following them and their advice, even their demands? How are these "Christian" journalists different from typical media reporters? Should they consider the fall-out, the hatred and persecution against those of us who choose to remain at Harvest? Are you aware of the security men who are stationed at Harvest campuses? Can you guess why they are needed?
Finally, you may want to hold off on canonizing Mancow, alias Matthew Erich Muller. I and several friends had repeatedly asked him to really be a shock jock and share his testimony on his morning WLS radio show: Who he was before he met Christ; How he met Christ; and How accepting Christ into his heart has changed him to be more like Jesus.
He responded to us by saying it was not the time to share the Gospel (Karl- do you agree?) and then he blocked us completely from his site.
I also suggest you listen to Mancow's shows. On Valentine's day his guests included a fake preacher who said Jesus is no different from any of us people, and a dominatrix who was more lovable and far less scary than the "preacher" on his show.
Karl- I hope that things go well for you. But I think it is a sad statement when the troubles and possible breaking up of a church are the hot topics of gossip across the body of Christ and not the teachings of God's Word, the Bible, as preached in sermons by Pastors in mega and little Churches alike.
Our prayers and God's blessings for you and your family-
Pasture James is not Amighty.God ,so take the focus off man and onto God. Don't idol worship a man.
You guys are doing a terrible job! The word of God is the word of God. We all live under grace. This man has done great work for the Lord and I believe he truly loves the Lord. How dare you be his executor and judge
Do the people in the comments who think that they need to know all of the dirt of what happened. This is all you really need to know. We are not entitled to our own opinions about other Christians. Do not forget how much God has forgiven you. We are not entitled to know everything that's happened. Every Christian needs to learn to be open and transparent about what's truly in their hearts and get prayer and seek God for continual Deliverance and sanctification. Every Christian needs accountability partners. No Christian person is too strong and has such a great following that they are not susceptible to falling and failing and missing the mark like we all do every single day.
He was indited also for attempting to hire a hitman.
I'm sorry people in GOD that take a chance on hurting GOD,and their walk in CHRIST because they need to stay sensitive to GOD watching their life I pray for those who go there,I'm not going there it's too late in time for stupidity mess ups people don't know when their leaving here why not stay ready? Don't you want to make GOD happy with his investment in us?
Why can't you just say what you want to say and not Draaaaaaaaaaaaag it out? ... so boring,
so boring. So you think it's your place to tear apart Christians who have missed the mark,
like you never have. Please, get a job where Christians are not criticized.