If you enjoyed this, check out my reaction to Robocop ruclips.net/video/xy1WQ93sdg4/видео.html And Total Recall ruclips.net/video/_XOeOF1vy8M/видео.html Thanks for watching 👊 🤙
I love this movie. I think it suffered when it was released because most people didn't understand that there was an underlying satire to the whole thing.
@@gambarit isn’t satire. It fails miserably at satire, instead showing a society we could aspire to be. This is a liberal democracy where rights are preserved and the military is strong.
The lead actors were chosen by the Director Verhoven because they were cheesy delivering their lines at audition. He was also encouraging them to be over the top in their acting and expressions. It’s all very intentional.
Verhoeven says of the feeling of the film with the pretty and bad actors: "If I tell the world that a right-wing, fascist way of doing things doesn't work, no one will listen to me. So I'm going to make a perfect fascist world: everyone is beautiful, everything is shiny, everything has big guns and fancy ships but it's only good for killing fucking Bugs!"
For the record, this movie is based on Robert A. Heinlein's controversial Hugo-award winning book. In it he argued that the right to vote, and therefore the right to spend other people's money or risk other people's lives must be earned. Simple existense within a particular geographical boundry was not enough. He also argued that military service should be voluntary and not compulsory. People who did not care to be 'citizens' were never forced into military service.
"I object to conscription the way a lobster objects to boiling water. It may be his finest hour, but it's not his choice". RAH (Heinlein had originally intended to be a career navy officer. Tuberculosis ended that idea).
Add to that the movie was completely different from the book. Still love both though, and that’s very rare in a movie made from a book. It was so great that I didn’t mind that it was basically it’s own story apart from the book.
Well, yes and no. Verhoeven was writing a film about fighting giant bugs for a while, and his co-writer remarked that it was quite similar to Heinlein's book. Verhoeven tried to read it, got bored, and just let the co-writer add some stuff in to make it into a movie of the book. So not based on the book. Rather it was edited to come in line with the book halfway through writing.
People always seem to miss the fact that the book was also a satire. And think Heinlein was being sincere, and therefore criticize him over it. It wasn't as over the top as the movie, but that's because it's from a very different time and therefore treading a very different line. But at its core, the messages are the same. That this sort of intention often leads to control through propaganda and political exclusion of counterpoints, with eventual trends towards fascism.
This movie is intentionally campy, awesomely gory, and definitely satire. The VFX still holds up surprisingly well. I'll never forget seeing this in theaters as my first R rated movie with my dad. Top 10 for sure
@@KurNorock It literally is. Paul Verhoeven was very explicit in that. The BOOK is a little closer to supporting fascism (even though Heinlein didn't view it as such, but rather a Pro-Military perspective) but the Movie is a very different thing. Hell, Verhoeven even criticised the proposed remake as far too likely to end up being outright fascist, unlike his film which was a direct satire of it. You might as well say RoboCop wasn't a satire of corporate America.
@@Lachdonin I don't care. Paul Verhoeven is an idiot, and is wrong. He doesn't know what fascism is, and his attempts to portray it failed miserably because there is ZERO fascism in this movie. And no, there is no fascism in the book either. Being "pro-military" isn't fascism. At. All. Go ahead. Give me even one example of fascism from this movie. Show me one fascist thing. I'll wait. And what exactly is the satire of corporate America in Robocop by the way? That corporations have the ability to produce effective and useful goods and services for the benefit of mankind, especially in areas where government has clearly failed? Because that's what Robocop himself is. An effective product of a mega corporation that has done far more good for the community than harm. And while that corporation had its share of corruption, the product of that corporation also rooted out and eliminated that corruption. So what exactly was Verhoeven supposed to be satirizing? As I said, he's an idiot. He keeps making the exact opposite points in his movies that he sets out to make.
@@Lachdonin And if you are legitimately interested in this subject, then I HIGHLY recommend watching this video as it goes into pedantic detail about the politics of Starship Troopers and breaks down exactly why it is not a movie about fascism, satirical or otherwise. ruclips.net/video/kVpYvV0O7uI/видео.html
As I recall, essentially one needs to be a "Citizen" to vote (and it makes it much easier to get a license to have kids and you get some other perks). The line "Service guarantees citizenship" means just that. The idea is that you need to serve the nation and take some responsibility for it if you want a say in it (the ability to vote). Service is not for life either (though some do become lifers like Dizzy wanted to be) and no matter any sort of disabilities they will find a way for you to serve to earn your citizenship.
I didnt realise that was the case. I assumed it was the classic roman model where people born in the US were citizens and client nations such as the South American nations werent granted US Citizenship unless they served military service. Non romans were considered a lower class of people and had limited rights.
@@sqdn As I recall it is just citizens and non-citizens and citizenship is not granted by birth. One must serve to be a citizen, even children of citizens. It is very much an individual thing. Now that being said, a non-citizen can still do very well for themselves, acquire wealth, have the protection of the military and so on, and can still apply for a license to have a child (just look at Rico's parents).
Earning the right to vote and have children by having to join a fascist military force and committing genocide against an alien race in order to steal their land, yeah real noble
I actually don't think it's that bad of an idea because these days people that have no business in politics is hip deep not making any sense because they don't have to know what they're talking about. With this model only the people willing to serve is allowed and you wouldn't be able to use the money for votes and influence that we see on both sides today. It's not a bad idea.
@@RyanCarrington nah, man, think of the news... everyone is so steeped in jingoist propaganda that they think it will be a grand adventure culminating in their advancement to the citizenry.
@@RyanCarrington Verhoeven intentionally asked for "good looking, soap opera type" actors for the recruits. And he took Casper Van dean for the main character because he looked charismatic and hollow at the same time. The only exception was for NPH character who was ment to be likable and smart but manipulative and morally ambiguous
I hate this phrase but "read the book." It's 180 degrees away from the movie, written in the 1950's. It used to be required reading at west point military academy.
The score in this movie absolutely rocks. Play the Klendatu Drop music while folding clothes or washing dishes and you feel like you are conquering the world.
"Citizenship" is what you earn by your service to the Federation - medics, soldiers, pilots, office work etc, it doesn't matter WHAT will you do to serve, what matters is that you ARE actively doing something for the well being of the State and it's Citizens + Civilians! Notice that Rico's parents are not Citizens, yet still they are wealthy and can afford off World Luxury Holidays for the entire family. Hell, Rico's father actively hates the idea of Citizenship - in times of Soviet Union or German Reich, such statements would be enough for you to be send into to the workcamps. Rico asks his tracher "is worth it?" and the teacher replies "THAT is YOUR choice." Also once you join the Federal Service you CAN and you are also encouraged to LEAVE....but you CAN try it anytime you feel fit again! Very interesting idea IMO.
Incorrect on a single point, you can only attempt to become a citizen once, that's why they actively encourage you to quite and why how you serve is chosen for you, why it's always physically and mentally hard, it's to weed out those without the mental strength to endure and sacrifice for the whole.
I watched it when I was about 10 I think 😬 Although all I can remember is Arnie and a woman with 3 boobs I think? It wouldn't be a proper first time reaction. But I can't remember for the life of me what it's about so it almost would 😂 I dunno, what do you reckon?
@@RyanCarrington That sounds like a first time watch reaction to me with just a caveat or two. No big deal. I don't think people would have an issue. The movie is definitely worth a"rewatch" I say.
I always thought it was fun that the blind biology teacher in the high school was played by Rue McClanahan, one of the Golden Girls. Always loved this movie. I guess I shouldn't be surprised so many people failed to see the obvious satire throughout and thought it was just a generic sci-fi action movie.
When I was a kid, that's how I saw the movie. When I was a teenager, I realized that it was meant, at least in part, to mock the book. When I was a college student and saw "Triumph of the Will", I realized that it was calling the society Fascist.
My whole family just love this movie. I've met casper/ Rico a few times, met dizz and Ace as well and they were so sweet.. love them all!! But yes this film is satire on fascism and people really didn't get it at the time.. it grew a following later.
It's not that people didn't get it at the time, it's that it completely failed at representing fascism in anything other then the imagery. It's litteraly a libertarian utopia. There's no career politician sending kids to war, it's people who served themselves and know the costs. Leaders who fail don't get to stay in power or don't get taken out, they willfully step down, recognizing their failures in front of EVERYBODY and citizens select a replacement. What is taken as propaganda because of the presentation is actually a free media, showing both the good sides and the bad, the wins and the defeats, something you'd never see in fascism. Non-citizen can be successful and rich, they simply can't vote because they refuse to SERVE the people before LEADING the people. Seems like people nowadays have no idea what fascism is supposed to be... All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state. The fascist state is the corporate state. Benito Mussolini
It only thinks that it's a satire of fascism, because the director, and evidently you as well do not understand what fascism is. I'd recommend to look at The Politics of Starship Troopers on this platform to get a better idea what this kind of society is. Can't link even YT vids, or the censorbots of youtopia will nuke my post.
@@RyanCarrington Then I recommend you watch The Politics of Starship Troopers on YT as well, very informative. Saying it's critique of fascism, doesn't make it so.
It is NOT a satire on fascism. There is ZERO fascism in this movie. Yes, I know the director thinks it was, and so people like you repeat that endlessly, but the fact remains, it just isn't true. I challenge you to find any example of fascism in the movie. And once you fail at that, take a moment to watch this video which goes into detail explaining how the government depicted in this movie is not fascist at all. ruclips.net/video/kVpYvV0O7uI/видео.html
As a German (born way after the obvious event Im referring to - but like all Germans INTENSELY schooled on this topic during our history lessons) I always love showing this movie to folks who say things like: "I dont understand how anyone could fall into a fascist ideology - "I" would never have done that!" After watching this it mostly turns to "Oh! Yeah... I get it now... my bad!" Thats the brilliance of this picture. Along with some truely stellar acting and effects. Im always amazed how well these visuals hold up considering their age.
Yeah, I've heard about your schooling over there in regards to that. We could definitely take a leaf out of your book in our schools. The effects and this really blew me away! Can't believe how well they look considering it's age.
@@RyanCarrington Hmmm... I always have trepidation getting into politics online - but F-it! This is a political movie after all ;P So yeah... the aftermath of WW2 specifically is very interesting to me. The allies basically (lets go with a "house breaking a dog" analogy here) forced our noses into the messy carpet and said: "Dont do it again!". Then patted themselves on the back, went home and pretended they didnt have to look into their own shortcomings as well - because you know... they had "won" after all. They had beat the evil fascists. So what if the US didnt give their black population voting rights for another 20 years, so what if the UK still chemically castrated homosexuals and do we even have to talk about what Russia continued doing? :D (not to mention that all of these countries had large portions of their population who would have rather allied with Nazi Germany than against it in the first place) Its just one of the quirks of history. And it unfortunately still reverberates to this day. Though Im not putting current day Germany on a pedestal by any means. Sadly we to have had a resurgence of far right wing nut jobs - especially given the refugee issues in recent times. And every nation these days seem to have their ... lets call them "funny hairstyle populists ranting against foreigners" if you catch my drift
@@MrLiquar i used the past tense there buddy - im not getting into current day politics in a comment section about this movie But if I have to say what Russia did during and after WW2... sure: estimates of Gulag victims range around 2.5+ million. So yeah... the Soviet Union did some f-ed up shit for a few decades after they "beat the bad guys"
@@MrLiquar If you want a taste of what the Soviets did during and after the war, ask a Polish person about kill pits. But lest you think the Nazis were better, having just about exhausted the Jews in Germany, the Poles were the next up for the gas chambers and were already being sent to the work camps when the Allies arrived.
I suggest watching "The Politics Of Starship Troopers" documentary on RUclips. I'd link it, but RUclips sometimes deletes comments with links in them. It is a very enlightening video, as it clears up many misconceptions about the movie and book. Fun Fact: A miniature Millennium Falcon can be seen on the backside of one of the starships' bridges. How I Killed Your Father Fact: During the live-fire training scene, Djana'D (Tami-Adrian George) shoots and kills Breckinridge (Eric Bruskotter) accidentally, resulting in Rico's flogging. In real life, the two actors are together and have a child. They met on this film. No CGI Needed Fact: When Rico, Carmen, and Carl meet with the recruiting officer after pledging, and the officer shakes his prosthetic hand with Rico, the recruiting officer has no legs. Robert David Hall, who plays the recruiting officer, had both legs amputated after a car crash in 1978. Three years later, Hall appeared in CSI: Crime Scene Investigation (2000) as the medical examiner Dr. Al Robbins, wearing prosthetic legs using a crutch, and walking with a limp.
Haha amazing! I moved house when I was little and the previous owners left a copy of the stargate movie behind in one of the bedrooms. That was when my love of Stargate began! Later on I discovered SG1.
The movie is definitely a ironic take on militaristic societies. People will have a really hard time convincing me that the bugs really sent the asteroid. When they showed the news reel, they made a clear point to show that Klendatu was the farthest away possible from earth. Not that it would the first time a government would blame an event on a population they were looking to invade anyway…
The asteroid is my favorite thing people usually gloss over. The bugs not only accurately get an asteroid from one end of the Milky Way to the other by farting on it, but get it to Earth in the characters' lifetimes. I know it's a movie so you suspend disbelief sometimes for the sake of the movie needs to happen, but I feel like that was intentional. The asteroid was probably purely coincidence, but no one really cares because they have an enemy and a reason to fight.
They sent numerous asteroids. The first one got through. If it was such a militaristic, fascist society as everyone describes, no false flag would be needed.
@@chago4202000 the Nazis used a false flag attack as their excuse to invade Poland, and then used the claims that a secret Jewish cabal was going to use the Soviet Union to invade them as their excuse to invade. The militarist Japanese government used a false flag attack as an excuse to invade China. Even fascists need excuses to convince people they’re in the right.
The director grew up under Nazi occupation in WWII...so he very much intended this to be laughing at the stupidity and and emptiness of fascism. "If I just made an anti-fascist movie, no one would listen to it..." -Verhoeven
Where exactly is the fascism? People keep making the “it’s militarism so therefore fascism” leap in logic. Fascism is inherently patriarchal, and ethnic-centric, yet this imagined society is much more “inclusive” than our own. Also, fascism is a marriage of the State and industrialists, yet the corporate angle isn’t explored whatsoever in this film other than perhaps the state-run media.
@@GeorgeEugeneBarrett Dig: I'm into a discussion 💯...no desire to "be right" in an argument. I'm very down with a discussion! What I'm thinkin: ST is a silly, cartoonish, satire of fascism. Authoritanism (need a license to be pregnant), Nationalism (become a "citizen"), militarism (yep), xenophobia (the enemy is literally dehuman). Neil P Harris's uniform in the end is not a subtle style. And most is that the director Verhoeven *has* spoken about the film and his intentions. Tbc, I _love_ this movie. I think it's hilarious and a helluva lotta fun.
@@gggooding You are correct. I see people attacking Verhoeven for not understanding the novel, but I think, actually, many are not understanding *the novel* and are defending it. There are layers of misunderstanding going on here. People misinterpret the lack of overt nationalism or racism, because in an interstellar war nationalism is defunct at an ethnic or national level. Now its bigger game. It is about a conflict of species and supremacy of humanity.
Verhoeven took Robert A Heinlein's book and made a total satire of it. It was also rewritten so much as to be almost totally unrecognizable from the original. It's a fun romp but I would have liked to see a serious screenplay taken from the book. It is a very libertarian Heinlein take on where we should go as a society and not the comic book Verhoeven made. This was a Hugo Award winner and is also more a philosophical discussion than a story of war.
I saw this in the theaters 3 times in the theater when I was a kid. It was packed every night. The crowd reaction was akin to avengers end game audience reaction. Don’t feel bad about laughing, You’re suppose to have a grin from ear to ear while watching this. Verhoven movies are thoughtful and fun as fuck.
I think Verhoeven cast very pretty people (i.e., Van Dien and Richards) who thought they were in a bog-standard sci-fi. Having them "act" and not realizing they were in a politically minded satire of fascism adds a new layer of frisson. The shiny, happy sheen - the 90210ness of the acting - is on purpose. My theory, anyway. BTW, it is very strongly implied that Earth started the war.
Thinking about Michael Ironside led me back to Scanners. If you like the Verhoeven vibe, chances are pretty high you would appreciate David Cronenberg movies. He is bonkers. Hides his weirdness behind layers of socially approved layers of movie-making techniques and tropes in his stabs at the conventional market. Dead Ringers is a favorite of mine. Other times he is just gonzo weird. I love his weird shit. Even Crash. Other times he is within the boundaries of kinda mainstream. A History Of Violence fucking rocks as a mainstream acceptable movie. Viggo Mortensen kicks ass in the nude. He is odd, but he is very good at his job. He is blatantly subversive and yet a lot of his movies did pretty good box-office. He is an intriguing enigma.
@@RyanCarrington I shall. Thanks for the heads up. I only discovered you a month or so ago so I have not seen all your back catalog yet. In Dead Ringers Jeremy Irons plays twins. Two gynecological surgeon twins. Things go massively awry. It is exceedingly creepy and dark and gross and weirdly hilarious. It is shot and framed and scored as if it were a big budget Hollywood doctor movie and then things go very weird. Subverts expectations in every scene.
Hell yeah! Saw this in theaters with my pops. Citizens are allowed to vote and help decide the politics. Civilians are only allowed to exist by the rules set by the citizens. The only way to be a citizen is to serve.
@@RyanCarrington It gets explained a lot better in the book. The basic idea is: you have this optional military service wich is hard and dangerous. You can quit anytime and get encouraged to do so time and time again so it filters out a specific kind of people. Those who made it through are willing and able to put the well being of their society above their own and this is the keypoint why only citizen get to vote. e
The great thing about this film is the many viewer interpretations of it. Some misunderstand the satirical concept and think it is pro-fascist. Conversely, some love it for the same reason. Some hate it because they think Verhoeven misunderstands the book because *they* misunderstand the book, or at least the critiques of Heinlein's message. Some love it as a simple cheesy action flick. I can attest that the novel itself as a very strong following in the US Army; it is both loved and detested.
It's such a fascinating film - one of the only things I can think of that is *entirely* satire, even down to its construction and overall storytelling. It's the perfect little fascist society, and the only thing it can do is fight bugs and it only works because it will always have bugs to fight. The ideal fascist dream, and all it amounts to is death. I am forever in awe of the fact that this came out in 1997. Think about how well it understood where the internet was headed with those glorious "Would you like to know more?" intermissions and how disturbingly well it predicts the US's militarism of the 21rst century by understanding the US's militarism at the end of the 20th century.
Where's the fascism? EVERYTHING is voluntary. The government is completley open with information to the public. The humans were a attacked, millions were killed, and we defended ourselves.
So something different in the book from the movie, the Recruiter in the book was in the same boat as in the movie. Former Mobile Infantry, multiple amputee, with a prosthetic arm. Though in the book he's purposefully put in that position to deter "eager young recruits" from signing up. A whole "This might be you if you sign up." You only get one chance to sign up for Citizenship, and if you decide to walk away between signing your form and reporting for duty, the government doesn't care. They'll file your form as abandoned, and leave it at that. In the book they had a whole bunch of different options for service, including being a bonded partner with a weird half-dog/half-man creature with psychic abilities. Mobile Infantry was literally considered the last option for people. The Recruiter tried to see if Johnny could qualify for ANYTHING other than MI. Also, it wasn't bugs in the book. Honestly I forget what the enemy was. I don't think they talked much about them, just Johnny's experiences. I should listen to the book again.
I believe the primary enemy in the book was the "Skinnies" - - a race of tech-advanced humanoids. But they couldn't compete with ape-like marauder "mech" suits and humanity's guerilla tactics...
The Bugs were the main enemy in the book. But the first battle was against the "Skinnies" (allies of the Bugs that the Federation was trying to force to change sides).
Fun fact: Zim (the drill instructor who catches the Brain Bug) is portrayed by Clancy Brown, who is the voice of characters such as Head Paladin Rhombus in Fallout 1, and Eugene Krabs on SpongeBob SquarePants.
It's kind of scary how good this movie actually is when one looks beneath the surface. Like Robocop, it's a heart-pounding action film, and yet also simultaneously both funny, satirical, and extremely disturbing and tragic.
I've been hit by an errant whip before. Even though it didn't break the skin, it left an awful S-shaped welt and the sting was unbelievable. I can see why they were used as motivation in times past. Can't imagine how horrific getting hit hard enough for the skin to split would be.
My grandfather got me with a buggy-whip once by accident, when I was getting into something that I knew I wasn't supposed to be getting in. He went to pop it behind me and I backed up mid swing and got the back of my thigh. It bled a little, but my grandmother lost her mind! He slept on the couch downstairs in the bar 🍸 area for 10 day's on a pull-out, before she let him back in their bed 🛌 I was crying, he was crying cause it really was a accident and she was 😱 scolding him. LOL..from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸 🤠
Blade Runner is up there, Brazil, Alien (and Aliens), Moon, and this one. I really like the civics in this movie, it's an interesting look at the state and the individual and makes one question where the line between a strong, unified state and fascism lies. It is a harsh world, but one with equality for all who choose to accept the costs of being a citizen.
It always bothered me that they never acknowledge that the only reason carman’s ship hit that asteroid and severely damaged the ship & very likely killed a Fairly large amount of crew was because she changed course without telling anyone regardless of it being More efficient 🤔 I wonder how many lashes that would get her
You're forgetting that she's a female, in the military 🪖, they fail upwards...oh oppression points for being female, in the military, and has brown hair, oppression points are at least 3 points!..lol..from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸 🤠 I worked on this film back in 95!
The entire film can remind one of all sorts of things that are going on now. Verhoeven is a genius. An absolute master of feeding the audience's perspectives back to them. In Robocop the awfulness is evident to the characters, as well as the audience. In contrast, this film's characters are utterly oblivious to how awful they are. They are only the good guys by virtue of asserting it. Their perception of themselves has no connection to what they're actually doing.
Klendathu invasion: within the first hour of the attack, mobile infantry lost 100,000 troopers, with max-cas ranging in the millions by the end, these including missing and killed in action, while fleet was absolutely devastated by ground based anti-orbit plasma bombardment.
Okay,when the director screened this film for movie execs...They freaked out. The film is really violent and gory and they weren't expecting that,but the scene that really freaked out the execs was the bug rapes a female soilder scene.Its the scene at the beginning when a bug drags the female into a tunnel.The footage was never released.
I think you caught everything. If you’re still thinking about it even now, the movie hit you just right. All the details of what a citizen is and what they are entitled to are intended to pull you up short as you put it together. Realizing gradually who the people you’re rooting for in this movie actually are is part of the fun. Dressing everything up as a propaganda-flavored patriotic war movie glorifying the cause completely confused American audiences back in the day but everyone in Europe seemed to get it right away. Usually people figure it out when SS Standartenfuhrer NPH strides out but even then plenty of people new to this movie seem to think the Nazi-ness was somehow accidental. Verhoeven’s commentary track is worth a listen - he breaks everything down. Another detail you noticed but didn’t actually call out is how many walking wounded adults there were all over the beginning of the movie before the bug thing starts, suggesting that this society is always coming up with wars to send their kids to fight and line the pockets of those who profit from such things. You asked why they sent in infantry during that first attack? Because someone has to arm and supply all those soldiers - certainly not for tactical reasons. Paul Verhoeven grew up during the tail end of the Nazi occupation of Holland so a lot of fascist overtones turn up in his stuff. You should give his war movies a look - “Soldier of Orange” and “Black Book” are two sides of the same coin, they tell of resistance fighters and do it better than just about anything else. They’re not as twisted as his American films, but it’s definitely the same guy at work.
Unfortunately all this movie does is depict a libertarian wet dream, with added militarism due to, you know, a literal war going on. And the "military propaganda" in this film is the most unedited transparent shit that would have ever existed in history. A far, FAR cry from *actual* tyrannical regimes in history who lie about basically everything, all the time, in order to control public opinion. Is the military depicted as comically incompetent? Yeah, but that's about the only thing the director gets correct about its "satire."
Hit the nail on the head. So many people just **dont read** the satire. I knew a dude in college you actually believed being in the military should be a pre-requisite to voting
"To have light in our kitchen... we have to use the switch first!!!" Audience went nuts "Boy she's right about that. Wish we had known that on our first attempt. Well... who cares?"
I don`t know why they bothered to buy the rights to the book. If they had just changed the names, no one would have ever connected the film with the book.
If you pay close attention, we started the war with that initial colony on bug property. The fact they're teaching bug anatomy in the schools is because the government always knew they were a threat. The sequels never match this high, but they can be enjoyable for other weirdness.
The Federation did not start the war. The Federation established the Bug Quarantine Zone which forbid establishing colonies on Bug planets. A bunch of Mormon settlers illegally colonized a Bug planet in violation of the Quarantine Zone. They were, in essence, illegal immigrants seeking a better life in Bug country. The Bugs responded to the establishment of a small colony of at most a couple hundred people by 1) slaughtering all of them then 2) dropping an asteroid on Buenos Aires. So, if the US government responded to a caravan of illegals crossing the southern border by machine gunning all of them, then nuking Cancun, would you say that Mexico started the war? Or would the US response to a minor border incursion be a criminally excessive human rights atrocity? And yes, the Federation is teaching Bug anatomy. Yes, they know Bugs are dangerous, hence the Quarantine Zone. But they don’t know that the Bugs are intelligent. (Which really makes no damned sense considering that the Bugs have colonized multiple planets, a feat which no naturally evolved nonsentient species would be capable of. But, y’know, movie logic, I guess.)
I'm not sure I believe that the bugs sent the asteroid at all. I think it's a possible false flag operation, or maybe even just bad luck and the federation used that as a reason to invade. We've seen that over and over in our own history. Their whole society seems completely interwoven with the military, so you're gonna need a war every now and then just to keep the public sold on that idea. I dunno man, I don't trust them at all haha
@@RyanCarrington In the novel the Federation was completely unaware of the existence of the Bugs until the Bugs atttacked, destroying Buenos Aires as well as numerous other targets. The Bugs also used weappons in the book, so there was no question that they were intelligent. Obviously, the movie made changes. And just as obviously, Verhoeven wanted to pain t the Federation as the bad guys. So it's possible that the attack on BA was a false flag. But...Doogie Howser is in military intelligence. And he doesn't seem to know much more about the Bugs than Rico or Carmen. The Bugs have those enormous plasma cannon Bugs that were shooting down Federation spaceships so they would seem to have the ability to launch an asteroid at BA. The asteroid that hit BA was the same one that took off the superstructure on Carmen's ship. So it seems kind of odd that, as a false flag operation, the Fedration would be willing to blow up one of ts own ships as well as nuke a city. Either one would suffice. Heck, even a failed attack on the ship would do. And btw, their society is not completely interwoven with the military. It bases citizenship on service to the state. That service doesn't have to be military. We're just following characters who chose the military as their service path. Absent the Bugs (which the Federation wasn't at war with in the beginning) there is absolutely no mention of any other war the Federation was involved in. That recruiter guy - we have no idea how he was injured. It might have been a training accident, like the one that killed Rico's squaddie. To again reference the book, there the Federation is the only human government and has been at peace for centuries prior to the initial Bug attack. The Federation isn't some totalitarian fascist dictatorship. No such government would ever allow a ive broadcast of a military invasion. Fascism is predicated upon the infallibility of the leader as the embodiment of the state. So no fascist distator would accept personal responsibility for the failure of the invasion of Klendathu and resign. They'd blame sabotage by traitorous radicals. Verhoeven wants to sell the idea that war breeds fascists. So Verhoeven picked a fight with a dead guy, Heinlein. Verhoeven chose which parts of Heinlein's book to present in making his case that Heinlein's Fedration is a fotalitarian fascist regime. Verhoeven got to straw man Heinlein's entire argument by cherrypicking what to include and how to present it. And Verhoeven still lost. Putting characters in Nazi-inspired uniforms doesn't make them Nazis any more that calling a movement "antifascist" means its actually antifascist. Aesthetics isn't a substitute for substance.
This is definitely one of those underappreciated and underrated movies that has aged really well. It basically mirrors society, except the mirror is like one of those mirrors from a fun house at a theme park and everything is just exaggerated. It's the same director who did Robocop and you can see many similarities with how he uses the media.
The way I watch the movie at this point is two layers. Layer 1 is that it is a propaganda movie from the federation. It explains everything that is weird about the movie. Layer 2 is the implicit commentary; the characters are flat, the situations are ridiculous, and the humans probably aren't the good guys. So it makes you look at other movies/news and consider "Is this just cool/patriotic action, or is it actually propaganda?"
Back during the days of the Roman Republic and Roman Empire, citizenship was broken into two classes: Roman Rights amd Latin Rights. People with Latin Rights were people born outside of Italy and basically second class citizens. The couldn't vote and the worst punishments for crimes were reserved for them. Not saying the writers pulled from this but it's an interesting historical parallel
Not sure if you read the novel but it had basically the same exact concept as Republican Rome specifically the connection between military service and citizenship.
Having been in the military and deployed to war a few times, I can offer a somewhat unique perspective. Just because those guys came across as child-like to you regarding war, doesn't necessarily mean that is what they were going through. I know plenty of guy and gals who had sudden wake-up calls when they went to war, but it didn't deter them one bit. Also, the seemingly childish actions were more a combination of bonding, and an autonomic nervous response. In order to process the response in their own way, they did things that would, to the unfamiliar eye, come across as childish. But the largest percentage of it had to do with the bonding. I know, I went through it myself. Friends become brothers and sisters through it all.
This movie is intentionally VERY over the top. Campy action, extreme gore, ridiculous punishments, etc. It's all part of the satire. And yet, the film is extremely well made. The sets, vfx, music... all extremely top notch. "Why do I feel sorry for the brain bug." Because in this film, humans are the bad guys.
- Lot of people look at the idea of "Whipping" as barbaric but effective. If he went to prison he'd just sit there doing nothing. Failing that what our prisons do is turn people into better criminals when they get out. The look on the girl’s face as Rico’s getting whipped. She realizes how severe his punishment is as do recruits Some watching is clearly enjoying seeing Rico get the lash; separates those clearly sadistic and unworthy of armed service. In the end, his punishment is painful, but brief...publicly humiliating, but no lasting or expensive prison. I had to choose 10 lashes or jail time I'd choose the lashes. -bad strategy - No tanks - no armor - no air support
“Wasn’t expecting that just driving through corpses. These bugs are a problem man.” 😂😂💙 love your laugh. I probably wouldn’t laugh as much but then watching your reactions I’m like how did I not find that funny before lol
Made on a $100 million dollar budget, it made $122 million dollars at the box office, but was nominated for Best Visual Effects, yet it lost to Titanic.
This was my favorite Sci-Fi film when I was a kid. I even had the toys growing up. Now I The Thing is my favorite. Also the guy that got the knife in the hand was Gary Busey's son and the guy that throws the knife is Mr. Krabs.
The director has stated that the theme of the film is "war makes fascists of us all". Our characters didnt become disillusioned, they just became even more brainwashed.
The live action Voltron movie that'll be directed by Rawson Marshall Thurber and stars Daniel Quinn Toye and Henry Cavill will make this movie look like a joke
One thing I learned years after watching this is the author meant this to be a serious work. He believed that the federation was his utopian society and the bugs are more of a representation of 'commie's' representing the endless horde's and careless loss of life, 'Every time we killed a thousand Bugs at a cost of one M. I. it was a net victory for the Bugs. We were learning, expensively, just how efficient a total communism can be when used by a people actually adapted to it by evolution'
Heinlen fully believed that the red Chinese menace was going to attack the United States, partially through psychological means, and he felt that the Baby Boomers were not ready to handle the problems of tomorrow. Its such a good book honestly, one that I think we should all take at least a look at.
I've seen this so many times and it's the perfect movie to roast while you're watching it. I love your sense of humor and wish you didn't have to be on your good behavior for YT.
I think this is a horrible movie to roast, because it's deliberately over-the-top and campy, and very self-aware. I didn't see Ryan's commentary as "roasting."
I read this as a kid. Loved your reactions. Here's some Wiki Background info: Starship Troopers is a military science fiction novel by American writer Robert A. Heinlein. Written in a few weeks in reaction to the US suspending nuclear tests. The story was first published as a two-part serial in The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction as Starship Soldier, and published as a book by G. P. Putnam's Sons in December 1959. Starship Troopers has been identified with a tradition of militarism in US science fiction, and draws parallels between the conflict between humans and the Bugs, and the Cold War. A coming-of-age novel, Starship Troopers also critiques US society of the 1950s, arguing that a lack of discipline had led to a moral decline, and advocates corporal and capital punishment. Just like Rico and his parents I have seen the same conflicts and ideals between those having grown up in the 1940's and 50's (With the same ethics and moral of the movie) conflicting with the new adults from the 1960s. Maybe out-of-date ethics and values are what threw you off. Remember, WWII had just ended and many thought this way.
Heinlein was also a wannabe who never saw action in the war, and wrote a lot of stuff that combat grunts found laughable and childish. His idealization of the command structure was especially absurd, since most experiences of grunts will talk about an officer corps that is a mixture of criminals, psychopaths, and useless rich kids, where it's basically impossible to ever hold them accountable. The movie savagely makes fun of this by showing how lacking in self-awareness and utterly doomed Heinlein's society would be, with everyone being outrageous hypocrites, sadists, and moral cowards while praising themselves as brave and ethical.
@@dudermcdudeface3674 And Verhoven brings another layer of the satire as a European critiquing the American love of military unique to the 80s and 90s (which was, in its way a conservative reaction the liberalism of the late 60s and early 70s,) as being clueless adoration as it was nationalism and militarism that engulfed Europe in cataclysm twice in 25 years.
I read the book a long time ago and it's remarkable to hear commentary about the 1950s being a time of moral decay when it's been idealized for decades as the standard of 'the good old days'. I see it now with people talking about how superior it was to be raised during the 70's and 80's when they want to bad mouth the current youth generations. People have been complaining about the youth since Plato.
I still don't believe that this lost the best special effects to Titanic that year. This was beyond amazing for 1997, all Titanic did was build a ship and sink it.
The CGI in Titanic was genuinely groundbreaking, including the first photorealistic CGI water and water vapour. Plus a lot of other effects that had never been done before either.
Paul Verhoeven (who also directed movies like Robocop, Total Recall and Basic Instinct) was born in Holland in 1938. While he was a kid, the nazis were occupying his country (as you may know, Ann Frank was a Dutch Jew). So many of his movies have been critical of the nazis and fascism. In Starship Trooper nazism isn't mentioned by name, but the costumes of the military intelligence we see when the brain bug is captured don't even look closely like the costumes of the nazi officers in WW2. They're exactly the same. Verhoeven is not even subtle in this. You are right, everybody look like taken out of some 90's teenage drama and it was a conscious decision by Verhoeven as well as showing the propagandist face of the society they were living in. When it came out in 1997, the movie wasn't a big hit but it kinda became a classic now and it's pretty solid.
No, Hugo Boss didn't design the black SS uniforms. He was one of the suppliers, but the uniforms were designed by others. That being said, there were elements of German WW2 uniforms, like the cut and some insignia (props to those who spot the Feldherrnhalle insignia) and the Litzen (double bars on the collars; incidentally found on current Russian parade uniforms).
Okay, now that I've finished my watch of your watch, here's a bit of explanation: This is *totally* satire - the original book by Robert Heinlein has long been criticized for being a sort of pro-fascism story, and Verhoeven's movie version plays this as a commentary on the type of society that would require civilians to fight for the right to vote, and therefore to have actual, tangible rights as, well, citizens. The constant stream of propaganda-style adverts in between scenes (much like the adverts that pop in during RoboCop) are a further expression of the neo-Fascist dystopia Paul Verhoeven is depicting and satirizing here... And yes, those Hugo Boss uniforms were very much on purpose ;)
" plays this as a commentary on the type of society that would require civilians to fight for the right to vote, and therefore to have actual, tangible rights as, well, citizens." Well, this society was every society in older countries that didn't have the luxury (or decadence) to delegate their freedom and protection to some other "pro guys" (in the modern US, usually poor blacks and other poor who sign for army). The switch to "pro" and "mercenary" armies came about in feudal societies - when the population was just subjects working for the kings and lords.
Except you are NOT required to fight. You are required to serve. Please name one society in human history that didn't have some method of determining who gets to vote and who doesn't? Provided, of course, that ANYBODY got a vote, as opposed to a dictatorship.
@@chago4202000 this is splitting hairs...if you can be required to serve, and service can mean being forced to fight the Federation's wars, then where exactly is the middleman?
@@The_Zharan_Colonel Being a police officer MAY require you to shoot someone. Shooting someone IS NOT a requirement to be a police officer. They are two different things. MOST soldiers never see combat, never fire their weapon. Serving and being required to fight are two very different things. The military specifically recognizes the difference between combat jobs and non combat jobs.
What happened with this film is that the director, Paul Verhoeven (who never laid down in a bed without first checking under it for Nazis hiding there), read two chapters of Robert Heinlein's novel -- which is about civic virtue, social responsibility, social justice, and sacrificing for the greater good of society -- and immediately dismissed it as "fascist trash," which is a complete misunderstanding of the novel entirely. He then made a movie satirizing his straw man version of the original book. The point of the book is that political power should be reserved for those who have proven themselves willing to go the extra mile for society as a whole. Thus, society is divided up into two classes: citizens and civilians. The only difference between these two classes is that citizens get the right to vote after doing a voluntary "term of service", while civilians -- who choose not to serve -- do not. Otherwise, civilians retain every single other right a citizen has. While the book centers on a kid who joins the military because he wants to become a citizen, the book explicitly states that a term of service can be almost anything that renders a social good to the greater society. Teaching, repairing infrastructure... I think in the book they mention "testing spacesuits on Pluto", even... as long as it helps the greater society, its a service. And its totally voluntary. You can quit any time you want. But if you do, you never get another chance. And if you volunteer for a term, they have to take you, even if you're paralyzed from the neck down. They'll find some way for you to serve... And Verhoeven read this as "fascism." Truth is, Verhoeven is a bit of an asshole. He's also a concentration camp survivor, and thus could possibly be excused for being paranoid about fascism.
I have to disagree with you. Verhoeven isn't misunderstanding any of it. He understands the book very well. And his criticisms of it are the same long-standing critiques that have been around as long as the book. Moreover, Verhoeven may not have read the whole book, but the actual writer of the screenplay, Ed Neumeier has been obsessed with the book since he was a kid and knows it inside out. Not to get into an argument or political debate, but when one is assessing the novel, solely focusing on the good of service, and the merits of a completely engaged body-politic, one is missing the other half of the equation which is what Neumeier and Verhoeven bring into the film. The world in the novel and film is not run by a benign government of altruistic veterans. People often overlook this: Particularly veterans. I know many US Army officers who both love and loathe the book and there is an ongoing duel between their points of view on it. Essentially you are either bought-in into that program, or you're an outsider who has no voice or political agency.
The book also states that everyone in-universe also thinks that civil service = military service. That's why the dad in the book reacts the same way, something about there not being a war so military service is stupid. The author post-hoc wrote that 90%+ of civil service was non-military, but that didn't come across in the actual book at all. It's similar to how Rowling wrote later that Dumbledore was gay. Sure that might be the case in the author's head but nothing in teh book actually suggested that.
So the distinction between civilian and citizen in this movie would be similar to say, an American civilian and someone inside America with a work Visa both of them have the full protection of the law and rights afforded to them but the person on a work visa (the civilian in starship trooper) would be unable to vote, and you would have difficulties with some legal restrictions in things like setting up your own business or getting personal licenses. Ricco didn’t really need it though since his family was very wealthy and much like real world with economic citizenship (if you are a billionaire and desire citizenship of another country you just give the government a couple million dollars and bam your a citizen) ricco family had the money to just kind of circumvent many of the restrictions the only thing he would never be able to buy is the right to vote
His parents also strongly suggest that they think the elections are rigged anyways, and that the sky-marshals are really just figureheads for industry leaders.
19:56 I've seen this clip before. This is a man who is good at his job. I don't know what he's being paid, but he deserves a raise. My gosh, I love this movie. Don't feel bad for enjoying it. Having fun while talking about important issues is sort of the point of the film. If all you want is a bang, boom, pow, kind of film, this delivers in spades. If you're paying attention, however, it's a completely different experience. The book is worth reading if you, "Would like to know more." The book is quite different. I think this is probably the only case in which I can say that I like the film more than the book. You used one phrase that must have been uttered a thousand times. "Who came up with this battle plan?" Unfortunately, you shouldn't be surprised that "we're sending children into war." We always do that. Most of the 'men' who invaded Normandy were 16-19. My grandfather lied about his age and joined the Navy at 14, so that kind of thing certainly did happen too. Young men die in war and that's just the way it is. No matter how much it sucks. Have a great day, Ryan and all. I'm doing my part! to help the channel grow by commenting.
It's interesting that you made the terminator 2 reference during the brain bug scene, considering that Dean Norris, who played the boot camp commander, had also played the SWAT team leader in the scene in terminator 2 you'd included in this video
Honey I'm home! Wine, weed and starship troopers! This is one of those films that you can't understand why it's so good lol but somehow it's got that secret thing that makes us love it.
The armour used in this film was reused in both Firefly and Power Rangers and possibly other shows/films too, it has been joked that the armour has seen more work than those that wore it.
It seduces you into cheering for the baddies, then makes you wonder how, and somehow without being preachy. Every few years I gain more real-world insight from this movie, and it's always fun.
I am continually amazed by the ways Verhoeven came up with to get his points across by exploiting the psychology of the audience. At times, so slick that the people watching have no idea what's happening.
How are the humans the bad guys? Everyone sees the intentional costume choice and says Fascists! It's a costume for the movie. What did the humans do to make them the "bad guys"?
@@chago4202000 The humans are expansionists with a dystopian, militaristic culture, and violated Arachnid sovereignty by colonizing their homeworld. One might write it off as a mistake, but instead of using psychics to apologize and negotiate a truce, they just double-down and use them to optimize their genocide engine. The "costumes" are there to spell it out plainly, for anyone who completely missed the *satire* and bouquets of red flags up to that point, and to confirm the suspicions of those who already smelled the smell.
@@bmatt2626 The human government explicitly told people NOT to settle near the bugs. So they were NOT attempting to settle bug worlds. When all this began, human psychics were not able to communicate with higher intelligence, they made that clear. Also, WHEN exactly would we have apologized for a group of humans being slaughtered without even a demand that they leave first? The very next thing the bugs did after the massacre was to launch an asteroid at Buenos Aires. And what is "militaristic" about the society? There's no compulsion at all to join the military. Even during the war, there is NO DRAFT. They are still recruiting volunteers. They are at war because they just basically got nuked. A rogue group of people camped in the wrong back yard, got slaughtered. The yard owners then nuked the rest of us, but we should have apologized. I suppose a psychic would have just walked up to one of the brains, since they had to be touching them just to catch an emotion.
@@chago4202000 "The human government explicitly told people NOT to settle near the bugs." Yes, if you believe the propaganda, and completely ignore the satire and subtext. Emperor Palpatine was just trying to restore peace and order to the Star Wars galaxy too, because he said so... in words!
Johnny Rico was the son of a wealthy businessman. He was teased about being a "rich kid". He was headed for Harvard. He was supposed to go on an interplanetary vacation. His parents had a kid. All this and they weren't citizens and were actually opposed to the idea. Doesn't sound like they were exactly being held back from pursuing a happy life. The military was completely voluntary and they were upfront about what you were getting into. Recall the gentleman at the reception desk with no legs and one arm. That wasn't by accident.
This is a fun movie, but there are two things to know about it in reference to the Heinlein novel that should tell you how little this movie has to do with it. The script was originally a generic alien bug war piece called Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine, but then the producers bought the rights and attached the Heinlein Starship Troopers imprimatur on it. The 2nd thing to know is that Paul Verhoeven started reading Heinlein's book, decided he did not like what Heinlein had to say about a few political things, but never finished reading the book...he has famously said he got a fee chapters in and gave it up for being too boring. He then proceeded to try and satirize material that he had not read and did not understand. The REAL Starship Troopers is a masterpiece of sci fi, regardless of what you may think about its political messages. It is based on the idea of armored suit combat, and bears almost no relation to what Verhoeven put on screen, which is a really funny alien bug hunt scenario, but fails as commentary on what Heinlein wrote. I really hope that you will read the Heinlein book yourself and make up your own mind...it is iconic science fiction that every fan of the genre must read.
The opening scene of powered suits falling from a drop ship. And then the short fight with personal nukes. That really stuck with me, and lot's of times I think about it when seeing something with a Mech suit.
I personally really enjoyed reading the book too. But it was quite obvious that it was a bunch of right wing fascist bullshit. Sort of like how Warhammer 40K is awesome, but the "good guys" are still fascist psychopaths. You give Verhoven too little credit. He understood exactly what the book was trying to say and knew it was bullshit too. This movie isn't just fun, its a perfect satire of what Heinlein wrote. The choices in this movie were very deliberate, but most people missed the point when it came out. The whole reason its so much more popular these days than when it was released is because people have learned to interpret the satire. I'll admit, it would have been awesome to see the mech suits, but I think having them be regular troops makes it easier to identify with the horrors of war.
@@MuadDib042 There is no fascism at all in Heinlein's book...none at all. If you can find an example of it...I will consider it, but I reread it recently, and there is no fascism in it at all.
@@MuadDib042 The only people who criticize the book for being pro-fascist are either those who didn't read it themselves or those who misunderstood it. There are several videos on RUclips debunking the idea that the society in the novel was fascist. Not to mention Verhoeven himself admitted to getting a couple of pages into the book before quitting because he thought it was too boring. The movie was a classic case of movie studios mating a movie idea to a novel in hopes of making a quick buck. Besides the fact that there are bugs and humans fighting the film and movie have nothing in common.
This kind of a big spike into the brain would have been instant lights out. How the hell was the pilot guy still screaming and twitching, even when his brains were mush in a tube?
Hey Ryan, Fun Fact for you: This movie was based on the novel of the same title by Robert Heinlein, but there's a number of major differences between the movie and it's source material One of the most notable differences is that Dina Meyer's character of Dizzy Flores in the novel was a guy
![Watching STARSHIP TROOPERS for the first time! [ REACTION / COMMENTARY ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BOtSVTNUQNU/mqdefault.jpg)
If you enjoyed this, check out my reaction to Robocop ruclips.net/video/xy1WQ93sdg4/видео.html
And Total Recall ruclips.net/video/_XOeOF1vy8M/видео.html
Thanks for watching 👊 🤙
I love this movie. I think it suffered when it was released because most people didn't understand that there was an underlying satire to the whole thing.
Doesn't surprise me! 😅
Yet nine year old me could see it... AND LOVED it!
It wasnt satire it was a skewdring of the military industrial complex and facism read the book its based on
most people still don't understand that it's a satire
@@gambarit isn’t satire. It fails miserably at satire, instead showing a society we could aspire to be. This is a liberal democracy where rights are preserved and the military is strong.
The lead actors were chosen by the Director Verhoven because they were cheesy delivering their lines at audition. He was also encouraging them to be over the top in their acting and expressions. It’s all very intentional.
exactly, the entire movie even outside of the obvious news snippets is meant to feel like propaganda. Stilted and cheesy acting included.
Verhoeven says of the feeling of the film with the pretty and bad actors: "If I tell the world that a right-wing, fascist way of doing things doesn't work, no one will listen to me. So I'm going to make a perfect fascist world: everyone is beautiful, everything is shiny, everything has big guns and fancy ships but it's only good for killing fucking Bugs!"
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 Paul verhoven completely failed in his vision of a satire btw
For the record, this movie is based on Robert A. Heinlein's controversial Hugo-award winning book. In it he argued that the right to vote, and therefore the right to spend other people's money or risk other people's lives must be earned. Simple existense within a particular geographical boundry was not enough.
He also argued that military service should be voluntary and not compulsory.
People who did not care to be 'citizens' were never forced into military service.
"I object to conscription the way a lobster objects to boiling water. It may be his finest hour, but it's not his choice". RAH
(Heinlein had originally intended to be a career navy officer. Tuberculosis ended that idea).
Add to that the movie was completely different from the book. Still love both though, and that’s very rare in a movie made from a book. It was so great that I didn’t mind that it was basically it’s own story apart from the book.
You know its a good book when two people can have a completely different view of it.
Well, yes and no. Verhoeven was writing a film about fighting giant bugs for a while, and his co-writer remarked that it was quite similar to Heinlein's book. Verhoeven tried to read it, got bored, and just let the co-writer add some stuff in to make it into a movie of the book.
So not based on the book. Rather it was edited to come in line with the book halfway through writing.
People always seem to miss the fact that the book was also a satire. And think Heinlein was being sincere, and therefore criticize him over it. It wasn't as over the top as the movie, but that's because it's from a very different time and therefore treading a very different line. But at its core, the messages are the same. That this sort of intention often leads to control through propaganda and political exclusion of counterpoints, with eventual trends towards fascism.
This movie is intentionally campy, awesomely gory, and definitely satire. The VFX still holds up surprisingly well. I'll never forget seeing this in theaters as my first R rated movie with my dad. Top 10 for sure
It's so cheesy it somehow goes all the way around to awesome again!
People keep saying it is a satire of fascism, but it isn't. Not even close.
@@KurNorock It literally is. Paul Verhoeven was very explicit in that. The BOOK is a little closer to supporting fascism (even though Heinlein didn't view it as such, but rather a Pro-Military perspective) but the Movie is a very different thing. Hell, Verhoeven even criticised the proposed remake as far too likely to end up being outright fascist, unlike his film which was a direct satire of it.
You might as well say RoboCop wasn't a satire of corporate America.
@@Lachdonin I don't care. Paul Verhoeven is an idiot, and is wrong. He doesn't know what fascism is, and his attempts to portray it failed miserably because there is ZERO fascism in this movie.
And no, there is no fascism in the book either. Being "pro-military" isn't fascism. At. All.
Go ahead. Give me even one example of fascism from this movie. Show me one fascist thing. I'll wait.
And what exactly is the satire of corporate America in Robocop by the way? That corporations have the ability to produce effective and useful goods and services for the benefit of mankind, especially in areas where government has clearly failed? Because that's what Robocop himself is. An effective product of a mega corporation that has done far more good for the community than harm. And while that corporation had its share of corruption, the product of that corporation also rooted out and eliminated that corruption.
So what exactly was Verhoeven supposed to be satirizing?
As I said, he's an idiot. He keeps making the exact opposite points in his movies that he sets out to make.
@@Lachdonin And if you are legitimately interested in this subject, then I HIGHLY recommend watching this video as it goes into pedantic detail about the politics of Starship Troopers and breaks down exactly why it is not a movie about fascism, satirical or otherwise.
ruclips.net/video/kVpYvV0O7uI/видео.html
As I recall, essentially one needs to be a "Citizen" to vote (and it makes it much easier to get a license to have kids and you get some other perks). The line "Service guarantees citizenship" means just that. The idea is that you need to serve the nation and take some responsibility for it if you want a say in it (the ability to vote). Service is not for life either (though some do become lifers like Dizzy wanted to be) and no matter any sort of disabilities they will find a way for you to serve to earn your citizenship.
I didnt realise that was the case. I assumed it was the classic roman model where people born in the US were citizens and client nations such as the South American nations werent granted US Citizenship unless they served military service. Non romans were considered a lower class of people and had limited rights.
@@sqdn As I recall it is just citizens and non-citizens and citizenship is not granted by birth. One must serve to be a citizen, even children of citizens. It is very much an individual thing.
Now that being said, a non-citizen can still do very well for themselves, acquire wealth, have the protection of the military and so on, and can still apply for a license to have a child (just look at Rico's parents).
Earning the right to vote and have children by having to join a fascist military force and committing genocide against an alien race in order to steal their land, yeah real noble
Somebody definitely read the book!
I actually don't think it's that bad of an idea because these days people that have no business in politics is hip deep not making any sense because they don't have to know what they're talking about. With this model only the people willing to serve is allowed and you wouldn't be able to use the money for votes and influence that we see on both sides today. It's not a bad idea.
"i feel like i'm watching 90210" is pretty much exactly what they were going for 😉
Good to know 😂
Thought that comment might've annoyed people 😅
@@RyanCarrington nah, man, think of the news... everyone is so steeped in jingoist propaganda that they think it will be a grand adventure culminating in their advancement to the citizenry.
@@RyanCarrington Verhoeven intentionally asked for "good looking, soap opera type" actors for the recruits. And he took Casper Van dean for the main character because he looked charismatic and hollow at the same time. The only exception was for NPH character who was ment to be likable and smart but manipulative and morally ambiguous
I hate this phrase but "read the book." It's 180 degrees away from the movie, written in the 1950's. It used to be required reading at west point military academy.
The score in this movie absolutely rocks. Play the Klendatu Drop music while folding clothes or washing dishes and you feel like you are conquering the world.
Noted! I'm definitely doing this.
Basil Poledouris - he also did soundtrack for Conan, maybe the most epic movie soundtrack.
@@dacsus
"Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!"
Pure testosterone on steroids.
@@dacsusI think he did Robocop as well
"Citizenship" is what you earn by your service to the Federation - medics, soldiers, pilots, office work etc, it doesn't matter WHAT will you do to serve, what matters is that you ARE actively doing something for the well being of the State and it's Citizens + Civilians!
Notice that Rico's parents are not Citizens, yet still they are wealthy and can afford off World Luxury Holidays for the entire family. Hell, Rico's father actively hates the idea of Citizenship - in times of Soviet Union or German Reich, such statements would be enough for you to be send into to the workcamps. Rico asks his tracher "is worth it?" and the teacher replies "THAT is YOUR choice."
Also once you join the Federal Service you CAN and you are also encouraged to LEAVE....but you CAN try it anytime you feel fit again! Very interesting idea IMO.
Incorrect on a single point, you can only attempt to become a citizen once, that's why they actively encourage you to quite and why how you serve is chosen for you, why it's always physically and mentally hard, it's to weed out those without the mental strength to endure and sacrifice for the whole.
@@KnIf0rTITAN oh damn! Thanks for correcting me!
Now you've gotta go for the final of Verhoeven's trio of 80's/90's masterpieces-1990's original Total Recall.
I watched it when I was about 10 I think 😬 Although all I can remember is Arnie and a woman with 3 boobs I think?
It wouldn't be a proper first time reaction. But I can't remember for the life of me what it's about so it almost would 😂
I dunno, what do you reckon?
@@RyanCarrington That sounds like a first time watch reaction to me with just a caveat or two. No big deal. I don't think people would have an issue. The movie is definitely worth a"rewatch" I say.
@@okeefe757 ok, yeah, I think I'll do it then!
@@RyanCarrington Nice!
"Blue skies on Mars? That's new."
I always thought it was fun that the blind biology teacher in the high school was played by Rue McClanahan, one of the Golden Girls. Always loved this movie. I guess I shouldn't be surprised so many people failed to see the obvious satire throughout and thought it was just a generic sci-fi action movie.
I reckon that If I watched this when I was younger, I definitely think a lot of it would've gone over my head 🙃
When I was a kid, that's how I saw the movie. When I was a teenager, I realized that it was meant, at least in part, to mock the book. When I was a college student and saw "Triumph of the Will", I realized that it was calling the society Fascist.
My whole family just love this movie. I've met casper/ Rico a few times, met dizz and Ace as well and they were so sweet.. love them all!! But yes this film is satire on fascism and people really didn't get it at the time.. it grew a following later.
Oh that's nice to know 🙂
Yeah, I'm hearing this a lot in the comments! Crazy!
It's not that people didn't get it at the time, it's that it completely failed at representing fascism in anything other then the imagery. It's litteraly a libertarian utopia. There's no career politician sending kids to war, it's people who served themselves and know the costs. Leaders who fail don't get to stay in power or don't get taken out, they willfully step down, recognizing their failures in front of EVERYBODY and citizens select a replacement. What is taken as propaganda because of the presentation is actually a free media, showing both the good sides and the bad, the wins and the defeats, something you'd never see in fascism.
Non-citizen can be successful and rich, they simply can't vote because they refuse to SERVE the people before LEADING the people.
Seems like people nowadays have no idea what fascism is supposed to be...
All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.
The fascist state is the corporate state.
Benito Mussolini
It only thinks that it's a satire of fascism, because the director, and evidently you as well do not understand what fascism is. I'd recommend to look at The Politics of Starship Troopers on this platform to get a better idea what this kind of society is. Can't link even YT vids, or the censorbots of youtopia will nuke my post.
@@RyanCarrington Then I recommend you watch The Politics of Starship Troopers on YT as well, very informative. Saying it's critique of fascism, doesn't make it so.
It is NOT a satire on fascism. There is ZERO fascism in this movie. Yes, I know the director thinks it was, and so people like you repeat that endlessly, but the fact remains, it just isn't true.
I challenge you to find any example of fascism in the movie. And once you fail at that, take a moment to watch this video which goes into detail explaining how the government depicted in this movie is not fascist at all. ruclips.net/video/kVpYvV0O7uI/видео.html
As a German (born way after the obvious event Im referring to - but like all Germans INTENSELY schooled on this topic during our history lessons) I always love showing this movie to folks who say things like: "I dont understand how anyone could fall into a fascist ideology - "I" would never have done that!"
After watching this it mostly turns to "Oh! Yeah... I get it now... my bad!"
Thats the brilliance of this picture. Along with some truely stellar acting and effects. Im always amazed how well these visuals hold up considering their age.
Yeah, I've heard about your schooling over there in regards to that. We could definitely take a leaf out of your book in our schools.
The effects and this really blew me away! Can't believe how well they look considering it's age.
@@RyanCarrington Hmmm... I always have trepidation getting into politics online - but F-it! This is a political movie after all ;P
So yeah... the aftermath of WW2 specifically is very interesting to me. The allies basically (lets go with a "house breaking a dog" analogy here) forced our noses into the messy carpet and said: "Dont do it again!". Then patted themselves on the back, went home and pretended they didnt have to look into their own shortcomings as well - because you know... they had "won" after all. They had beat the evil fascists. So what if the US didnt give their black population voting rights for another 20 years, so what if the UK still chemically castrated homosexuals and do we even have to talk about what Russia continued doing? :D (not to mention that all of these countries had large portions of their population who would have rather allied with Nazi Germany than against it in the first place)
Its just one of the quirks of history. And it unfortunately still reverberates to this day. Though Im not putting current day Germany on a pedestal by any means. Sadly we to have had a resurgence of far right wing nut jobs - especially given the refugee issues in recent times. And every nation these days seem to have their ... lets call them "funny hairstyle populists ranting against foreigners" if you catch my drift
@@Daelyas what is Russia doing?
@@MrLiquar i used the past tense there buddy - im not getting into current day politics in a comment section about this movie
But if I have to say what Russia did during and after WW2... sure: estimates of Gulag victims range around 2.5+ million. So yeah... the Soviet Union did some f-ed up shit for a few decades after they "beat the bad guys"
@@MrLiquar If you want a taste of what the Soviets did during and after the war, ask a Polish person about kill pits. But lest you think the Nazis were better, having just about exhausted the Jews in Germany, the Poles were the next up for the gas chambers and were already being sent to the work camps when the Allies arrived.
I suggest watching "The Politics Of Starship Troopers" documentary on RUclips. I'd link it, but RUclips sometimes deletes comments with links in them. It is a very enlightening video, as it clears up many misconceptions about the movie and book.
Fun Fact: A miniature Millennium Falcon can be seen on the backside of one of the starships' bridges.
How I Killed Your Father Fact: During the live-fire training scene, Djana'D (Tami-Adrian George) shoots and kills Breckinridge (Eric Bruskotter) accidentally, resulting in Rico's flogging. In real life, the two actors are together and have a child. They met on this film.
No CGI Needed Fact: When Rico, Carmen, and Carl meet with the recruiting officer after pledging, and the officer shakes his prosthetic hand with Rico, the recruiting officer has no legs. Robert David Hall, who plays the recruiting officer, had both legs amputated after a car crash in 1978. Three years later, Hall appeared in CSI: Crime Scene Investigation (2000) as the medical examiner Dr. Al Robbins, wearing prosthetic legs using a crutch, and walking with a limp.
Yea these are fashistic view of war The Politics of Starship Troopers ruclips.net/video/kVpYvV0O7uI/видео.html
And Eric have a twin brother...
Dude that SG-1 reference at about 13:30 has given me new life...good on ya for knowing your classic '90s sci-fi shows! :)
Haha amazing!
I moved house when I was little and the previous owners left a copy of the stargate movie behind in one of the bedrooms. That was when my love of Stargate began! Later on I discovered SG1.
@@RyanCarrington I grew up with it as well :)
My dad and I used to watch the episodes on premiere night every week
The effects on this are so good. It's amazing how well the majority of it holds up.
I was surprised with it all!
The movie is definitely a ironic take on militaristic societies.
People will have a really hard time convincing me that the bugs really sent the asteroid. When they showed the news reel, they made a clear point to show that Klendatu was the farthest away possible from earth.
Not that it would the first time a government would blame an event on a population they were looking to invade anyway…
👀👀👀 you speaking facts.
It's a satirization of the politics espoused in the 1959 novel by Robert Heinlein.
The asteroid is my favorite thing people usually gloss over. The bugs not only accurately get an asteroid from one end of the Milky Way to the other by farting on it, but get it to Earth in the characters' lifetimes. I know it's a movie so you suspend disbelief sometimes for the sake of the movie needs to happen, but I feel like that was intentional. The asteroid was probably purely coincidence, but no one really cares because they have an enemy and a reason to fight.
They sent numerous asteroids. The first one got through. If it was such a militaristic, fascist society as everyone describes, no false flag would be needed.
@@chago4202000 the Nazis used a false flag attack as their excuse to invade Poland, and then used the claims that a secret Jewish cabal was going to use the Soviet Union to invade them as their excuse to invade. The militarist Japanese government used a false flag attack as an excuse to invade China.
Even fascists need excuses to convince people they’re in the right.
The director grew up under Nazi occupation in WWII...so he very much intended this to be laughing at the stupidity and and emptiness of fascism.
"If I just made an anti-fascist movie, no one would listen to it..." -Verhoeven
Where exactly is the fascism?
People keep making the “it’s militarism so therefore fascism” leap in logic. Fascism is inherently patriarchal, and ethnic-centric, yet this imagined society is much more “inclusive” than our own. Also, fascism is a marriage of the State and industrialists, yet the corporate angle isn’t explored whatsoever in this film other than perhaps the state-run media.
@@GeorgeEugeneBarrett Dig: I'm into a discussion 💯...no desire to "be right" in an argument. I'm very down with a discussion!
What I'm thinkin: ST is a silly, cartoonish, satire of fascism. Authoritanism (need a license to be pregnant), Nationalism (become a "citizen"), militarism (yep), xenophobia (the enemy is literally dehuman). Neil P Harris's uniform in the end is not a subtle style.
And most is that the director Verhoeven *has* spoken about the film and his intentions.
Tbc, I _love_ this movie. I think it's hilarious and a helluva lotta fun.
@@gggooding You are correct. I see people attacking Verhoeven for not understanding the novel, but I think, actually, many are not understanding *the novel* and are defending it. There are layers of misunderstanding going on here. People misinterpret the lack of overt nationalism or racism, because in an interstellar war nationalism is defunct at an ethnic or national level. Now its bigger game. It is about a conflict of species and supremacy of humanity.
Verhoeven took Robert A Heinlein's book and made a total satire of it. It was also rewritten so much as to be almost totally unrecognizable from the original. It's a fun romp but I would have liked to see a serious screenplay taken from the book. It is a very libertarian Heinlein take on where we should go as a society and not the comic book Verhoeven made. This was a Hugo Award winner and is also more a philosophical discussion than a story of war.
Seeing this movie in theaters when I was in middle school was wild. I never realized that they were the same director, thanks for the video.
I saw this in the theaters 3 times in the theater when I was a kid. It was packed every night. The crowd reaction was akin to avengers end game audience reaction. Don’t feel bad about laughing, You’re suppose to have a grin from ear to ear while watching this. Verhoven movies are thoughtful and fun as fuck.
I think Verhoeven cast very pretty people (i.e., Van Dien and Richards) who thought they were in a bog-standard sci-fi. Having them "act" and not realizing they were in a politically minded satire of fascism adds a new layer of frisson. The shiny, happy sheen - the 90210ness of the acting - is on purpose. My theory, anyway.
BTW, it is very strongly implied that Earth started the war.
Thinking about Michael Ironside led me back to Scanners. If you like the Verhoeven vibe, chances are pretty high you would appreciate David Cronenberg movies. He is bonkers. Hides his weirdness behind layers of socially approved layers of movie-making techniques and tropes in his stabs at the conventional market. Dead Ringers is a favorite of mine.
Other times he is just gonzo weird. I love his weird shit. Even Crash.
Other times he is within the boundaries of kinda mainstream. A History Of Violence fucking rocks as a mainstream acceptable movie. Viggo Mortensen kicks ass in the nude.
He is odd, but he is very good at his job.
He is blatantly subversive and yet a lot of his movies did pretty good box-office.
He is an intriguing enigma.
I actually did The Fly on the channel. So you can check that out if you fancy!
Definitely want to check out more of his stuff!
@@RyanCarrington
I shall. Thanks for the heads up. I only discovered you a month or so ago so I have not seen all your back catalog yet.
In Dead Ringers Jeremy Irons plays twins. Two gynecological surgeon twins. Things go massively awry. It is exceedingly creepy and dark and gross and weirdly hilarious.
It is shot and framed and scored as if it were a big budget Hollywood doctor movie and then things go very weird. Subverts expectations in every scene.
Scanners was fun! I prefer Videodrome personally
Michale ironside was amazing in v the series
Hell yeah! Saw this in theaters with my pops. Citizens are allowed to vote and help decide the politics. Civilians are only allowed to exist by the rules set by the citizens. The only way to be a citizen is to serve.
That sounds like a good day!
@@RyanCarrington It gets explained a lot better in the book. The basic idea is: you have this optional military service wich is hard and dangerous. You can quit anytime and get encouraged to do so time and time again so it filters out a specific kind of people. Those who made it through are willing and able to put the well being of their society above their own and this is the keypoint why only citizen get to vote. e
The great thing about this film is the many viewer interpretations of it. Some misunderstand the satirical concept and think it is pro-fascist. Conversely, some love it for the same reason. Some hate it because they think Verhoeven misunderstands the book because *they* misunderstand the book, or at least the critiques of Heinlein's message. Some love it as a simple cheesy action flick. I can attest that the novel itself as a very strong following in the US Army; it is both loved and detested.
at a certain point you dont need a medic as much as a mop an bucket
😂😂😂
It's such a fascinating film - one of the only things I can think of that is *entirely* satire, even down to its construction and overall storytelling. It's the perfect little fascist society, and the only thing it can do is fight bugs and it only works because it will always have bugs to fight. The ideal fascist dream, and all it amounts to is death. I am forever in awe of the fact that this came out in 1997. Think about how well it understood where the internet was headed with those glorious "Would you like to know more?" intermissions and how disturbingly well it predicts the US's militarism of the 21rst century by understanding the US's militarism at the end of the 20th century.
Where's the fascism? EVERYTHING is voluntary. The government is completley open with information to the public.
The humans were a attacked, millions were killed, and we defended ourselves.
ya thats what the move was satirizing. that and apparently how war makes fascist out of everyone.
I love that bug that swallows the grenade, he's just like gulp.
LOVED THIS BOOK! the movie is enjoyable if you pretend the book never happened
I always liked how they presented Xander as an antagonist but he was actually a good guy.
So something different in the book from the movie, the Recruiter in the book was in the same boat as in the movie. Former Mobile Infantry, multiple amputee, with a prosthetic arm. Though in the book he's purposefully put in that position to deter "eager young recruits" from signing up. A whole "This might be you if you sign up."
You only get one chance to sign up for Citizenship, and if you decide to walk away between signing your form and reporting for duty, the government doesn't care. They'll file your form as abandoned, and leave it at that.
In the book they had a whole bunch of different options for service, including being a bonded partner with a weird half-dog/half-man creature with psychic abilities. Mobile Infantry was literally considered the last option for people. The Recruiter tried to see if Johnny could qualify for ANYTHING other than MI.
Also, it wasn't bugs in the book. Honestly I forget what the enemy was. I don't think they talked much about them, just Johnny's experiences. I should listen to the book again.
Ahhh interesting stuff! Appreciate all the detail. Thanks for that! 👊🤙
I believe the primary enemy in the book was the "Skinnies" - - a race of tech-advanced humanoids. But they couldn't compete with ape-like marauder "mech" suits and humanity's guerilla tactics...
The Bugs were the main enemy in the book. But the first battle was against the "Skinnies" (allies of the Bugs that the Federation was trying to force to change sides).
@@iapetusmccool my bad, I was getting the book and Roughnecks mixed up, I think...
Fun fact: Zim (the drill instructor who catches the Brain Bug) is portrayed by Clancy Brown, who is the voice of characters such as Head Paladin Rhombus in Fallout 1, and Eugene Krabs on SpongeBob SquarePants.
It's kind of scary how good this movie actually is when one looks beneath the surface. Like Robocop, it's a heart-pounding action film, and yet also simultaneously both funny, satirical, and extremely disturbing and tragic.
I saw it on the big screen when it came out. MIND BLOWN. They start the movie with throwing body parts at your face and simply don't stop. :D
Didn't notice the children among the soldiers in the end scenes? NOT a sign of winning a war when you have access to a whole civilization. :P
I didn't! Geeeeez.
I've been hit by an errant whip before. Even though it didn't break the skin, it left an awful S-shaped welt and the sting was unbelievable. I can see why they were used as motivation in times past. Can't imagine how horrific getting hit hard enough for the skin to split would be.
And did you notice that it was a black man holding the whip, and a white man on the receiving end? Definitely not the antebellum model.
I think it’s safe to say we’ve all been whipped by a rubber snake in our childhoods.
My grandfather got me with a buggy-whip once by accident, when I was getting into something that I knew I wasn't supposed to be getting in. He went to pop it behind me and I backed up mid swing and got the back of my thigh. It bled a little, but my grandmother lost her mind! He slept on the couch downstairs in the bar 🍸 area for 10 day's on a pull-out, before she let him back in their bed 🛌 I was crying, he was crying cause it really was a accident and she was 😱 scolding him. LOL..from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸 🤠
Blade Runner is up there, Brazil, Alien (and Aliens), Moon, and this one. I really like the civics in this movie, it's an interesting look at the state and the individual and makes one question where the line between a strong, unified state and fascism lies. It is a harsh world, but one with equality for all who choose to accept the costs of being a citizen.
It always bothered me that they never acknowledge that the only reason carman’s ship hit that asteroid and severely damaged the ship & very likely killed a Fairly large amount of crew was because she changed course without telling anyone regardless of it being More efficient
🤔 I wonder how many lashes that would get her
THIS!!!!!!!!
She just got praised 😂
You're forgetting that she's a female, in the military 🪖, they fail upwards...oh oppression points for being female, in the military, and has brown hair, oppression points are at least 3 points!..lol..from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸 🤠 I worked on this film back in 95!
@@billallen4793 Which is why Diz had a long career- oh wait.
I think you might just hate women.
I love that at 24:42 you can see the guy yelling "Get out of here now!" directly into the camera lens 😂
"Don't be a Rico." Words to live by.
The entire film can remind one of all sorts of things that are going on now. Verhoeven is a genius. An absolute master of feeding the audience's perspectives back to them. In Robocop the awfulness is evident to the characters, as well as the audience. In contrast, this film's characters are utterly oblivious to how awful they are. They are only the good guys by virtue of asserting it. Their perception of themselves has no connection to what they're actually doing.
I'm doing my part!
By commenting for the algorithm.
Haha appreciate it! 🤙🤙
What's everyone's favourite Sci-Fi movie? 🙂
Original Star Wars trilogy
Event Horizon-space horror
Alien & Aliens
Like shit loads. But currently it's gotta be blade runner.
Total Recall ( same director) and The Abyss
I was nicknamed after Annie Oakley would you like lessons in gun control 😂
Hmmm, good question. Alien perhaps. or The Terminator. Does Waking Life count? lol
Klendathu invasion: within the first hour of the attack, mobile infantry lost 100,000 troopers, with max-cas ranging in the millions by the end, these including missing and killed in action, while fleet was absolutely devastated by ground based anti-orbit plasma bombardment.
I cracked up my friends beyond belief at the 20 minutes line: "Call Guinness: we're about to break a climax record..."
Okay,when the director screened this film for movie execs...They freaked out. The film is really violent and gory and they weren't expecting that,but the scene that really freaked out the execs was the bug rapes a female soilder scene.Its the scene at the beginning when a bug drags the female into a tunnel.The footage was never released.
Oh my god!
I think you caught everything. If you’re still thinking about it even now, the movie hit you just right. All the details of what a citizen is and what they are entitled to are intended to pull you up short as you put it together. Realizing gradually who the people you’re rooting for in this movie actually are is part of the fun. Dressing everything up as a propaganda-flavored patriotic war movie glorifying the cause completely confused American audiences back in the day but everyone in Europe seemed to get it right away. Usually people figure it out when SS Standartenfuhrer NPH strides out but even then plenty of people new to this movie seem to think the Nazi-ness was somehow accidental. Verhoeven’s commentary track is worth a listen - he breaks everything down. Another detail you noticed but didn’t actually call out is how many walking wounded adults there were all over the beginning of the movie before the bug thing starts, suggesting that this society is always coming up with wars to send their kids to fight and line the pockets of those who profit from such things. You asked why they sent in infantry during that first attack? Because someone has to arm and supply all those soldiers - certainly not for tactical reasons.
Paul Verhoeven grew up during the tail end of the Nazi occupation of Holland so a lot of fascist overtones turn up in his stuff. You should give his war movies a look - “Soldier of Orange” and “Black Book” are two sides of the same coin, they tell of resistance fighters and do it better than just about anything else. They’re not as twisted as his American films, but it’s definitely the same guy at work.
Unfortunately all this movie does is depict a libertarian wet dream, with added militarism due to, you know, a literal war going on.
And the "military propaganda" in this film is the most unedited transparent shit that would have ever existed in history. A far, FAR cry from *actual* tyrannical regimes in history who lie about basically everything, all the time, in order to control public opinion.
Is the military depicted as comically incompetent? Yeah, but that's about the only thing the director gets correct about its "satire."
@ 24:28
One of my favorite moments in film.
The camera guy getting the shot.
Hit the nail on the head. So many people just **dont read** the satire. I knew a dude in college you actually believed being in the military should be a pre-requisite to voting
"To have light in our kitchen... we have to use the switch first!!!" Audience went nuts "Boy she's right about that. Wish we had known that on our first attempt. Well... who cares?"
I don`t know why they bothered to buy the rights to the book. If they had just changed the names, no one would have ever connected the film with the book.
If you pay close attention, we started the war with that initial colony on bug property. The fact they're teaching bug anatomy in the schools is because the government always knew they were a threat. The sequels never match this high, but they can be enjoyable for other weirdness.
The Federation did not start the war. The Federation established the Bug Quarantine Zone which forbid establishing colonies on Bug planets. A bunch of Mormon settlers illegally colonized a Bug planet in violation of the Quarantine Zone. They were, in essence, illegal immigrants seeking a better life in Bug country.
The Bugs responded to the establishment of a small colony of at most a couple hundred people by 1) slaughtering all of them then 2) dropping an asteroid on Buenos Aires.
So, if the US government responded to a caravan of illegals crossing the southern border by machine gunning all of them, then nuking Cancun, would you say that Mexico started the war? Or would the US response to a minor border incursion be a criminally excessive human rights atrocity?
And yes, the Federation is teaching Bug anatomy. Yes, they know Bugs are dangerous, hence the Quarantine Zone. But they don’t know that the Bugs are intelligent. (Which really makes no damned sense considering that the Bugs have colonized multiple planets, a feat which no naturally evolved nonsentient species would be capable of. But, y’know, movie logic, I guess.)
I'm not sure I believe that the bugs sent the asteroid at all. I think it's a possible false flag operation, or maybe even just bad luck and the federation used that as a reason to invade.
We've seen that over and over in our own history.
Their whole society seems completely interwoven with the military, so you're gonna need a war every now and then just to keep the public sold on that idea.
I dunno man, I don't trust them at all haha
@@RyanCarrington In the novel the Federation was completely unaware of the existence of the Bugs until the Bugs atttacked, destroying Buenos Aires as well as numerous other targets. The Bugs also used weappons in the book, so there was no question that they were intelligent.
Obviously, the movie made changes. And just as obviously, Verhoeven wanted to pain t the Federation as the bad guys. So it's possible that the attack on BA was a false flag.
But...Doogie Howser is in military intelligence. And he doesn't seem to know much more about the Bugs than Rico or Carmen. The Bugs have those enormous plasma cannon Bugs that were shooting down Federation spaceships so they would seem to have the ability to launch an asteroid at BA. The asteroid that hit BA was the same one that took off the superstructure on Carmen's ship. So it seems kind of odd that, as a false flag operation, the Fedration would be willing to blow up one of ts own ships as well as nuke a city. Either one would suffice. Heck, even a failed attack on the ship would do.
And btw, their society is not completely interwoven with the military. It bases citizenship on service to the state. That service doesn't have to be military. We're just following characters who chose the military as their service path. Absent the Bugs (which the Federation wasn't at war with in the beginning) there is absolutely no mention of any other war the Federation was involved in. That recruiter guy - we have no idea how he was injured. It might have been a training accident, like the one that killed Rico's squaddie. To again reference the book, there the Federation is the only human government and has been at peace for centuries prior to the initial Bug attack.
The Federation isn't some totalitarian fascist dictatorship. No such government would ever allow a ive broadcast of a military invasion. Fascism is predicated upon the infallibility of the leader as the embodiment of the state. So no fascist distator would accept personal responsibility for the failure of the invasion of Klendathu and resign. They'd blame sabotage by traitorous radicals.
Verhoeven wants to sell the idea that war breeds fascists. So Verhoeven picked a fight with a dead guy, Heinlein. Verhoeven chose which parts of Heinlein's book to present in making his case that Heinlein's Fedration is a fotalitarian fascist regime. Verhoeven got to straw man Heinlein's entire argument by cherrypicking what to include and how to present it. And Verhoeven still lost. Putting characters in Nazi-inspired uniforms doesn't make them Nazis any more that calling a movement "antifascist" means its actually antifascist. Aesthetics isn't a substitute for substance.
This is definitely one of those underappreciated and underrated movies that has aged really well. It basically mirrors society, except the mirror is like one of those mirrors from a fun house at a theme park and everything is just exaggerated. It's the same director who did Robocop and you can see many similarities with how he uses the media.
This movie is full of throw away characters, they make it fun to watch them die. I love this fucking movie.
They really do 😂
The way I watch the movie at this point is two layers. Layer 1 is that it is a propaganda movie from the federation. It explains everything that is weird about the movie. Layer 2 is the implicit commentary; the characters are flat, the situations are ridiculous, and the humans probably aren't the good guys. So it makes you look at other movies/news and consider "Is this just cool/patriotic action, or is it actually propaganda?"
Whenever that Starship Troopers score plays I feel like I can take a direct hit from a nuke and still survive.
Paul Verhoeven spent his early childhood in Nazi occupied Netherlands. He has a perfect perspective to make a fascism satire movie like this one.
This is a deeply philosophical movie posing as a dopey action flick.
Back during the days of the Roman Republic and Roman Empire, citizenship was broken into two classes: Roman Rights amd Latin Rights. People with Latin Rights were people born outside of Italy and basically second class citizens. The couldn't vote and the worst punishments for crimes were reserved for them. Not saying the writers pulled from this but it's an interesting historical parallel
Not sure if you read the novel but it had basically the same exact concept as Republican Rome specifically the connection between military service and citizenship.
Never read it but thanks for the info. Interesting
Having been in the military and deployed to war a few times, I can offer a somewhat unique perspective. Just because those guys came across as child-like to you regarding war, doesn't necessarily mean that is what they were going through. I know plenty of guy and gals who had sudden wake-up calls when they went to war, but it didn't deter them one bit. Also, the seemingly childish actions were more a combination of bonding, and an autonomic nervous response. In order to process the response in their own way, they did things that would, to the unfamiliar eye, come across as childish. But the largest percentage of it had to do with the bonding. I know, I went through it myself. Friends become brothers and sisters through it all.
one of my favorites sci fi of all time !
This movie is intentionally VERY over the top. Campy action, extreme gore, ridiculous punishments, etc. It's all part of the satire. And yet, the film is extremely well made. The sets, vfx, music... all extremely top notch. "Why do I feel sorry for the brain bug." Because in this film, humans are the bad guys.
- Lot of people look at the idea of "Whipping" as barbaric but effective. If he went to prison he'd just sit there doing nothing. Failing that what our prisons do is turn people into better criminals when they get out. The look on the girl’s face as Rico’s getting whipped. She realizes how severe his punishment is as do recruits Some watching is clearly enjoying seeing Rico get the lash; separates those clearly sadistic and unworthy of armed service. In the end, his punishment is painful, but brief...publicly humiliating, but no lasting or expensive prison. I had to choose 10 lashes or jail time I'd choose the lashes.
-bad strategy
- No tanks
- no armor
- no air support
“Wasn’t expecting that just driving through corpses. These bugs are a problem man.” 😂😂💙 love your laugh. I probably wouldn’t laugh as much but then watching your reactions I’m like how did I not find that funny before lol
Made on a $100 million dollar budget, it made $122 million dollars at the box office, but was nominated for Best Visual Effects, yet it lost to Titanic.
I'm actually going to check out at Titanic pretty soon. So I'll see if it deserved it 😂
This was my favorite Sci-Fi film when I was a kid. I even had the toys growing up. Now I The Thing is my favorite. Also the guy that got the knife in the hand was Gary Busey's son and the guy that throws the knife is Mr. Krabs.
The director has stated that the theme of the film is "war makes fascists of us all". Our characters didnt become disillusioned, they just became even more brainwashed.
The live action Voltron movie that'll be directed by Rawson Marshall Thurber and stars Daniel Quinn Toye and Henry Cavill will make this movie look like a joke
One thing I learned years after watching this is the author meant this to be a serious work. He believed that the federation was his utopian society and the bugs are more of a representation of 'commie's' representing the endless horde's and careless loss of life, 'Every time we killed a thousand Bugs at a cost of one M. I. it was a net victory for the Bugs. We were learning, expensively, just how efficient a total communism can be when used by a people actually adapted to it by evolution'
Heinlen fully believed that the red Chinese menace was going to attack the United States, partially through psychological means, and he felt that the Baby Boomers were not ready to handle the problems of tomorrow. Its such a good book honestly, one that I think we should all take at least a look at.
I've seen this so many times and it's the perfect movie to roast while you're watching it. I love your sense of humor and wish you didn't have to be on your good behavior for YT.
I think this is a horrible movie to roast, because it's deliberately over-the-top and campy, and very self-aware. I didn't see Ryan's commentary as "roasting."
I read this as a kid. Loved your reactions. Here's some Wiki Background info: Starship Troopers is a military science fiction novel by American writer Robert A. Heinlein. Written in a few weeks in reaction to the US suspending nuclear tests. The story was first published as a two-part serial in The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction as Starship Soldier, and published as a book by G. P. Putnam's Sons in December 1959. Starship Troopers has been identified with a tradition of militarism in US science fiction, and draws parallels between the conflict between humans and the Bugs, and the Cold War. A coming-of-age novel, Starship Troopers also critiques US society of the 1950s, arguing that a lack of discipline had led to a moral decline, and advocates corporal and capital punishment. Just like Rico and his parents I have seen the same conflicts and ideals between those having grown up in the 1940's and 50's (With the same ethics and moral of the movie) conflicting with the new adults from the 1960s. Maybe out-of-date ethics and values are what threw you off. Remember, WWII had just ended and many thought this way.
Heinlein was also a wannabe who never saw action in the war, and wrote a lot of stuff that combat grunts found laughable and childish. His idealization of the command structure was especially absurd, since most experiences of grunts will talk about an officer corps that is a mixture of criminals, psychopaths, and useless rich kids, where it's basically impossible to ever hold them accountable. The movie savagely makes fun of this by showing how lacking in self-awareness and utterly doomed Heinlein's society would be, with everyone being outrageous hypocrites, sadists, and moral cowards while praising themselves as brave and ethical.
@@dudermcdudeface3674 And Verhoven brings another layer of the satire as a European critiquing the American love of military unique to the 80s and 90s (which was, in its way a conservative reaction the liberalism of the late 60s and early 70s,) as being clueless adoration as it was nationalism and militarism that engulfed Europe in cataclysm twice in 25 years.
I read the book a long time ago and it's remarkable to hear commentary about the 1950s being a time of moral decay when it's been idealized for decades as the standard of 'the good old days'. I see it now with people talking about how superior it was to be raised during the 70's and 80's when they want to bad mouth the current youth generations. People have been complaining about the youth since Plato.
Each one of Denise Richards’ teeth should get a credit line.
😂😂😂
I still don't believe that this lost the best special effects to Titanic that year. This was beyond amazing for 1997, all Titanic did was build a ship and sink it.
The CGI in Titanic was genuinely groundbreaking, including the first photorealistic CGI water and water vapour. Plus a lot of other effects that had never been done before either.
I've only ever seen clips of Titanic so I've got no idea how they stack up really!
You have to imagine this world as a Spartan world
The laughing is warranted, man. This movie calls for it.
Paul Verhoeven (who also directed movies like Robocop, Total Recall and Basic Instinct) was born in Holland in 1938.
While he was a kid, the nazis were occupying his country (as you may know, Ann Frank was a Dutch Jew).
So many of his movies have been critical of the nazis and fascism.
In Starship Trooper nazism isn't mentioned by name, but the costumes of the military intelligence we see when the brain bug is captured don't even look closely like the costumes of the nazi officers in WW2.
They're exactly the same.
Verhoeven is not even subtle in this.
You are right, everybody look like taken out of some 90's teenage drama and it was a conscious decision by Verhoeven as well as showing the propagandist face of the society they were living in.
When it came out in 1997, the movie wasn't a big hit but it kinda became a classic now and it's pretty solid.
No, Hugo Boss didn't design the black SS uniforms. He was one of the suppliers, but the uniforms were designed by others. That being said, there were elements of German WW2 uniforms, like the cut and some insignia (props to those who spot the Feldherrnhalle insignia) and the Litzen (double bars on the collars; incidentally found on current Russian parade uniforms).
Okay, now that I've finished my watch of your watch, here's a bit of explanation:
This is *totally* satire - the original book by Robert Heinlein has long been criticized for being a sort of pro-fascism story, and Verhoeven's movie version plays this as a commentary on the type of society that would require civilians to fight for the right to vote, and therefore to have actual, tangible rights as, well, citizens. The constant stream of propaganda-style adverts in between scenes (much like the adverts that pop in during RoboCop) are a further expression of the neo-Fascist dystopia Paul Verhoeven is depicting and satirizing here... And yes, those Hugo Boss uniforms were very much on purpose ;)
" plays this as a commentary on the type of society that would require civilians to fight for the right to vote, and therefore to have actual, tangible rights as, well, citizens." Well, this society was every society in older countries that didn't have the luxury (or decadence) to delegate their freedom and protection to some other "pro guys" (in the modern US, usually poor blacks and other poor who sign for army). The switch to "pro" and "mercenary" armies came about in feudal societies - when the population was just subjects working for the kings and lords.
I'd buy that for a dollar.
Except you are NOT required to fight. You are required to serve. Please name one society in human history that didn't have some method of determining who gets to vote and who doesn't? Provided, of course, that ANYBODY got a vote, as opposed to a dictatorship.
@@chago4202000 this is splitting hairs...if you can be required to serve, and service can mean being forced to fight the Federation's wars, then where exactly is the middleman?
@@The_Zharan_Colonel Being a police officer MAY require you to shoot someone. Shooting someone IS NOT a requirement to be a police officer. They are two different things.
MOST soldiers never see combat, never fire their weapon. Serving and being required to fight are two very different things. The military specifically recognizes the difference between combat jobs and non combat jobs.
What happened with this film is that the director, Paul Verhoeven (who never laid down in a bed without first checking under it for Nazis hiding there), read two chapters of Robert Heinlein's novel -- which is about civic virtue, social responsibility, social justice, and sacrificing for the greater good of society -- and immediately dismissed it as "fascist trash," which is a complete misunderstanding of the novel entirely. He then made a movie satirizing his straw man version of the original book.
The point of the book is that political power should be reserved for those who have proven themselves willing to go the extra mile for society as a whole. Thus, society is divided up into two classes: citizens and civilians. The only difference between these two classes is that citizens get the right to vote after doing a voluntary "term of service", while civilians -- who choose not to serve -- do not. Otherwise, civilians retain every single other right a citizen has. While the book centers on a kid who joins the military because he wants to become a citizen, the book explicitly states that a term of service can be almost anything that renders a social good to the greater society. Teaching, repairing infrastructure... I think in the book they mention "testing spacesuits on Pluto", even... as long as it helps the greater society, its a service. And its totally voluntary. You can quit any time you want. But if you do, you never get another chance. And if you volunteer for a term, they have to take you, even if you're paralyzed from the neck down. They'll find some way for you to serve...
And Verhoeven read this as "fascism." Truth is, Verhoeven is a bit of an asshole. He's also a concentration camp survivor, and thus could possibly be excused for being paranoid about fascism.
The "possibly" in that last sentence does it for me.
I'm sure this system of citizenship is worthy of lengthy discussion.
I have to disagree with you. Verhoeven isn't misunderstanding any of it. He understands the book very well. And his criticisms of it are the same long-standing critiques that have been around as long as the book. Moreover, Verhoeven may not have read the whole book, but the actual writer of the screenplay, Ed Neumeier has been obsessed with the book since he was a kid and knows it inside out.
Not to get into an argument or political debate, but when one is assessing the novel, solely focusing on the good of service, and the merits of a completely engaged body-politic, one is missing the other half of the equation which is what Neumeier and Verhoeven bring into the film. The world in the novel and film is not run by a benign government of altruistic veterans. People often overlook this: Particularly veterans. I know many US Army officers who both love and loathe the book and there is an ongoing duel between their points of view on it. Essentially you are either bought-in into that program, or you're an outsider who has no voice or political agency.
The book has ALWAYS been criticized for promoting jingoism and fascism.
The book also states that everyone in-universe also thinks that civil service = military service. That's why the dad in the book reacts the same way, something about there not being a war so military service is stupid. The author post-hoc wrote that 90%+ of civil service was non-military, but that didn't come across in the actual book at all.
It's similar to how Rowling wrote later that Dumbledore was gay. Sure that might be the case in the author's head but nothing in teh book actually suggested that.
This is one of mine and my father's favorite movies. Watched it multiple times in the theater
So the distinction between civilian and citizen in this movie would be similar to say, an American civilian and someone inside America with a work Visa both of them have the full protection of the law and rights afforded to them but the person on a work visa (the civilian in starship trooper) would be unable to vote, and you would have difficulties with some legal restrictions in things like setting up your own business or getting personal licenses. Ricco didn’t really need it though since his family was very wealthy and much like real world with economic citizenship (if you are a billionaire and desire citizenship of another country you just give the government a couple million dollars and bam your a citizen) ricco family had the money to just kind of circumvent many of the restrictions the only thing he would never be able to buy is the right to vote
His parents also strongly suggest that they think the elections are rigged anyways, and that the sky-marshals are really just figureheads for industry leaders.
19:56 I've seen this clip before. This is a man who is good at his job. I don't know what he's being paid, but he deserves a raise.
My gosh, I love this movie. Don't feel bad for enjoying it. Having fun while talking about important issues is sort of the point of the film. If all you want is a bang, boom, pow, kind of film, this delivers in spades. If you're paying attention, however, it's a completely different experience. The book is worth reading if you, "Would like to know more." The book is quite different. I think this is probably the only case in which I can say that I like the film more than the book.
You used one phrase that must have been uttered a thousand times. "Who came up with this battle plan?" Unfortunately, you shouldn't be surprised that "we're sending children into war." We always do that. Most of the 'men' who invaded Normandy were 16-19. My grandfather lied about his age and joined the Navy at 14, so that kind of thing certainly did happen too. Young men die in war and that's just the way it is. No matter how much it sucks.
Have a great day, Ryan and all. I'm doing my part! to help the channel grow by commenting.
Love this movie. Absolutely DRIPPING in satire. What a fun movie.
The book that this is based on is the only officially approved fiction book on the recommended reading list for the US Marine Corps
It's interesting that you made the terminator 2 reference during the brain bug scene, considering that Dean Norris, who played the boot camp commander, had also played the SWAT team leader in the scene in terminator 2 you'd included in this video
Honey I'm home! Wine, weed and starship troopers!
This is one of those films that you can't understand why it's so good lol but somehow it's got that secret thing that makes us love it.
This here could be the craziest anty-war movie. That's Verhoeven's magic!
The armour used in this film was reused in both Firefly and Power Rangers and possibly other shows/films too, it has been joked that the armour has seen more work than those that wore it.
Hahaa that's brilliant
It seduces you into cheering for the baddies, then makes you wonder how, and somehow without being preachy. Every few years I gain more real-world insight from this movie, and it's always fun.
I am continually amazed by the ways Verhoeven came up with to get his points across by exploiting the psychology of the audience. At times, so slick that the people watching have no idea what's happening.
How are the humans the bad guys? Everyone sees the intentional costume choice and says Fascists! It's a costume for the movie.
What did the humans do to make them the "bad guys"?
@@chago4202000 The humans are expansionists with a dystopian, militaristic culture, and violated Arachnid sovereignty by colonizing their homeworld. One might write it off as a mistake, but instead of using psychics to apologize and negotiate a truce, they just double-down and use them to optimize their genocide engine. The "costumes" are there to spell it out plainly, for anyone who completely missed the *satire* and bouquets of red flags up to that point, and to confirm the suspicions of those who already smelled the smell.
@@bmatt2626 The human government explicitly told people NOT to settle near the bugs. So they were NOT attempting to settle bug worlds.
When all this began, human psychics were not able to communicate with higher intelligence, they made that clear. Also, WHEN exactly would we have apologized for a group of humans being slaughtered without even a demand that they leave first? The very next thing the bugs did after the massacre was to launch an asteroid at Buenos Aires.
And what is "militaristic" about the society? There's no compulsion at all to join the military. Even during the war, there is NO DRAFT. They are still recruiting volunteers. They are at war because they just basically got nuked. A rogue group of people camped in the wrong back yard, got slaughtered. The yard owners then nuked the rest of us, but we should have apologized. I suppose a psychic would have just walked up to one of the brains, since they had to be touching them just to catch an emotion.
@@chago4202000 "The human government explicitly told people NOT to settle near the bugs." Yes, if you believe the propaganda, and completely ignore the satire and subtext. Emperor Palpatine was just trying to restore peace and order to the Star Wars galaxy too, because he said so... in words!
I LOVE this movie. Watched it countless times.
the entire movie was very intentional satire
I can't tell what is bad camp and what has a deeper point in this movie. I love this movie
The new live action Voltron movie will make Starship Troopers movie look like a joke
Johnny Rico was the son of a wealthy businessman. He was teased about being a "rich kid". He was headed for Harvard. He was supposed to go on an interplanetary vacation. His parents had a kid. All this and they weren't citizens and were actually opposed to the idea.
Doesn't sound like they were exactly being held back from pursuing a happy life.
The military was completely voluntary and they were upfront about what you were getting into. Recall the gentleman at the reception desk with no legs and one arm. That wasn't by accident.
This is a fun movie, but there are two things to know about it in reference to the Heinlein novel that should tell you how little this movie has to do with it. The script was originally a generic alien bug war piece called Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine, but then the producers bought the rights and attached the Heinlein Starship Troopers imprimatur on it. The 2nd thing to know is that Paul Verhoeven started reading Heinlein's book, decided he did not like what Heinlein had to say about a few political things, but never finished reading the book...he has famously said he got a fee chapters in and gave it up for being too boring. He then proceeded to try and satirize material that he had not read and did not understand.
The REAL Starship Troopers is a masterpiece of sci fi, regardless of what you may think about its political messages. It is based on the idea of armored suit combat, and bears almost no relation to what Verhoeven put on screen, which is a really funny alien bug hunt scenario, but fails as commentary on what Heinlein wrote. I really hope that you will read the Heinlein book yourself and make up your own mind...it is iconic science fiction that every fan of the genre must read.
The opening scene of powered suits falling from a drop ship. And then the short fight with personal nukes. That really stuck with me, and lot's of times I think about it when seeing something with a Mech suit.
I personally really enjoyed reading the book too. But it was quite obvious that it was a bunch of right wing fascist bullshit. Sort of like how Warhammer 40K is awesome, but the "good guys" are still fascist psychopaths. You give Verhoven too little credit. He understood exactly what the book was trying to say and knew it was bullshit too. This movie isn't just fun, its a perfect satire of what Heinlein wrote. The choices in this movie were very deliberate, but most people missed the point when it came out. The whole reason its so much more popular these days than when it was released is because people have learned to interpret the satire. I'll admit, it would have been awesome to see the mech suits, but I think having them be regular troops makes it easier to identify with the horrors of war.
@@MuadDib042 There is no fascism at all in Heinlein's book...none at all. If you can find an example of it...I will consider it, but I reread it recently, and there is no fascism in it at all.
@@MuadDib042 The only people who criticize the book for being pro-fascist are either those who didn't read it themselves or those who misunderstood it. There are several videos on RUclips debunking the idea that the society in the novel was fascist. Not to mention Verhoeven himself admitted to getting a couple of pages into the book before quitting because he thought it was too boring. The movie was a classic case of movie studios mating a movie idea to a novel in hopes of making a quick buck. Besides the fact that there are bugs and humans fighting the film and movie have nothing in common.
This kind of a big spike into the brain would have been instant lights out. How the hell was the pilot guy still screaming and twitching, even when his brains were mush in a tube?
Very funny to watch you repeatedly saying "what did I miss" because you understood the movie correctly almost the whole way through.
34:19 yeah, it's campy AF, but it totally works because this is deliberate. It's a direction choice and it's fully assumed
Hey Ryan, Fun Fact for you:
This movie was based on the novel of the same title by Robert Heinlein, but there's a number of major differences between the movie and it's source material
One of the most notable differences is that Dina Meyer's character of Dizzy Flores in the novel was a guy
Neil Patrick Harris:
Can´t do humans...
WAIT FOR IT
...jet.