Eddie Trunk: Nirvana 'Backlash (Against Glam Metal) was unforgiving ...It was Brutal'
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- FULL INTERVIEW: • Eddie Trunk on Nirvana...
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Throughout the mid to late 1980s, Glam Metal was the most prominent genre of rock n' roll as far as mainstream attention was concerned. Around the same time, in the mid to late 1980s, the grunge movement in the pacific northwest of the United States was beginning to form: It came to it's full fruition in the early 90s. When grunge, and in particular Nirvana broke out in the early 1990s, it marked the definitive end of the glam metal era. Eddie Trunk describes what that period of time was like for people associated with glam metal and the backlash some of them still face. This clip is from my third interview with Eddie Trunk. My previous interviews with Eddie Trunk appear in my documentaries 'What is Classic Rock?' & 'Rock is Dead?'
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Видеоклипы
Full interview: ruclips.net/video/wJ-Os6cjEGo/видео.html
I know someone, and their metal band that was literally about to sign a huge contract, a ta famous female singers home in Los Angeles, and a call came in. They were told, "This is canceled." ..."Why?".... the guy said ? Nirvana".... that's all he said. True story.
Oh.
God.
I can’t fathom what that’s like … but I can picture it happening all too easily…!
They still perform. But they were gutted. Pen literally in hand.@@kmexperience
I believe can believe it
It is true...
@@larrygcrews7971
No
Love 90s rock or grunge really great music, still listening.
The funny thing is lots of the Grunge/Alternative bands that got huge in the early 90s hid the fact that they were glam or looked really goofy in say 1989.
1. AIC was a glam metal band in the late 80s
2. Pantera was a glam metal band in the 80s
3. Gavin Rossdale from Bush was doing goofy pop music around 1989 basically as a George Michaels ripoff(the music video he did never surfaced until a few years ago online)
4. Pre-Stone Temple Pilots they originally called Swing and really goofy looking before they went hard and started dressing in times with the Seattle scene
It's funny how all those years when these bands were huge on MTV nobody had any idea because the internet was really a thing and all of these bootlegs were not public.
Nirvana was one of the few bands in that time that got huge but everyone knew there past in say 1987 because Nirvana wasn't ashamed of it(Kurt looked basically the same in 1987 as he did in 1991). Soundgarden was in a similar boat.
Green River was half glam metal and Mother Love Bone ever more so.
Alice N’ Chains were a hair metal band in plain clothes. They wouldn’t be out of place on a bill with Faster Pussycat. They were just marketed as a grunge band.
Don’t forget Layne Staley’s makeup and feathered mullet circa 88
@@headyBCshould’ve read your comment before posting 😂
STP were Mighty Joe Young before the STP name
80s was not only about hair bands like Poison and Winger. I grew up in that era and there were bands like AcDC, Iron Maiden, Queensryche,Ozzy, Metallica and the thrash movement. The 90s wasn't all about grudge either. I remember Pantera being top of the world in 1994.
Metallica peaked in the 90s
The impact that Nevermind had can be compared to a certain giant asteroid, that hit the Earth 65 million years ago and wiped out a certain species of giant reptiles.
Guns N Roses were actually the first of those asteroids that came in and cut a swathe . It was not going to get much better once Appetite for Destruction dropped .
Not all dinasours were reptiles most were Bird like👍
I’ll never forget where I was the 1st time I heard that album
It only took a couple of times hearing Nirvana to know I hated them. Even though the metal scene had became a parody, it was still far better than grunge.
@@odyssey6684the most wildly overrated band in history
If you go from Stadiums to clubs in 6 months, that says a lot.
And vice versa
It was like an overnight switch most definitely! I was 18 in 1993 and loved the 80s bands and still do! My cousin and I where into music very heavily and we had a ton of CDs to listen to and it seemed like once NEVERMIND was released he turned his back on all the bands we listened to just a few weeks prior like Cinderella..Ratt..Motley Crue and others and never looked back. I didn't care what anyone thought and kept listening to those bands and listened to STP... Nirvana and Soundgarden also. It was weird because it was like if you was riding around with buddies listening to STP and then after that CD had played and if you asked to put in Cinderella you was probably gonna be walking home.
I can personally attest to that shift. In mid 1991 I went into the military. Total isolation while in boot camp for 3 months. Before I left everyone in my peer group were long haired and wearing parachute pants and into the heavy metal glam rock scene. I came home near the end of 91 and just like that they all were not into that anymore. It's like a switch was flipped and it felt like a different world. Many have cut their hair and all were not wearing the heavy metal t-shirts and parachute pants anymore. For me the shift was very abrupt and mind blowing. Before I left, heavy metal was cool, come back and now it wasn't.
It didn't take much for a change did it? Interesting perspective man and very pronounced shift .
I remember that time like yesterday. You nailed it buddy!
Got to remember that the ‘90s music renaissance also encompassed other styles. Think about Massive Attack, Lauryn Hill, Moby, Leftfield, P J Harvey, Bjork, and many other ground breaking groups from that time. It was a great time to grow up as the groundswell of new music came in from all directions. The 80s bands were too often wedded to corporate packaging and had sold out in the parlance of the day.
Glam metal was formulaic, shallow, and extremely commercial. Same crap over and over again just to sell records. F*** nirvana, Alice in chains came out before them & so did Jane's Addiction. The change was already happening, Nirvana was just an opportunistic heavy promotion of that band by the record company that signed them to take advantage of the burgeoning trend. We had an appetite for something real. Curt pretended to be that, but the mainstream got opened up for lots of genuine creative artists.
@@matthewatwood8641 That's why I keep saying if it wasnt Nirvana it would have been someone else. Our generation came of age and we wanted our own music, not the last decade's music.
@@Joe-ny2up Because of your comment, I am remembering that too. Love or hate him, Garth was HUGE during those times. The alternative anthem of that time was Friends in Low Places
That bands like Poison, Motley Crue and Def Leppard were considered dead meat in 1992-94, and had the most successful tour only behind Taylor Swift 30 years later is so strange.
Like, how is that even possible?
I'm grew up in Seattle and was around for the grunge era. Nirvana was like a nuclear bomb going off in the city; our little town was never going to be the same again.
Most of the Seattle bands come from the punk scene…you would still see them at punk shows even after they were big.
It was a harsh end, but 80's hard rock had a really good run. It was basically an offshoot of the 70's hard rock of Van Halen, Hanoi Rocks and Aerosmith . Those 80's bands enjoyed over a decade of popularity. When it was time to go, it had to go. Most bands were fixating on power ballads and weren't writing heavy hitters anymore by the time Seattle bands started breaking out.
Glam metal suck for the most part. I was glad to see you get ground into the dirt, frankly. I do feel bad for musicians who got screwed over though.
@@matthewatwood8641 you were glad to see me get ground into the dirt??
@@robwalsh9843 Not you personally. The genre.
@@matthewatwood8641 okay lol I was never a fan and was glad of its downfall as well.
@@robwalsh9843 😆
My first concert was Guns N Roses at Madison Square Garden, the week Nevermind came out. It's written about in the book Come As You Are. As a grade schooler at this concert, i could clearly see "Hair Metal" was dying out. Metallica, thrash metal, Jane's Addiction and even pre-mega fame RHCP were already clearing out the way from that era. It was dying out for a couple years before the public at large had heard one note of Nirvana's music. Also, everyone says "Grunge Killed Hair Metal", but GNR was still the biggest rock band of the next few years. Motley Crue made their biggest album ever at the end of 89. Metallica's Black Album was a hard rock album that sonically a handful of hair metal bands coulda made, yet it sold more records than any metal band ever. More than the Beatles ever did. Those bands all just made really bad follow up albums their fans didn't want, and all roughly around the same stretch of time from 90-92.
@matthewmolnar8140 Well said!! You are absolutely correct in every way. I experienced those years as well and witnessed it first hand!!
Guns N Roses were the exclamation point at the back end of that so called hair metal era- even though GNR were not of that ilk .It was not going to get better after Appetite for Destruction dropped .Point being it was them who started the shift and were the zenith of that era making a lot of pre existing bands sound pedestrian by comparison . Totally agree with your point too re: RHCP and Janes . These bands & GNR were the ones who nudged the boulder to the edge of the cliff. Nirvana pushed it over the edge .
@@JETTBADASSMICHAELS I agree with GNR and Appetite. None of those bands could compete with it. GNR were the America's late 80's answer to the Rolling Stones.
I think there is something to this. A lot of the legacy bands in the glam scene broke up around that time as well: Mötley Crüe, Ratt, Poison, Cinderella and, eventually, Guns N' Roses all flamed out or broke up within a couple of years, leaving a vacuum that I am not convinced that the up-and-coming bands could fill.
"More than the Beatles ever did. "
Not true, the White Album sold more. Now that's irony.
I love both Glam Rock and Grunge. Just enjoy music.
It's funny how he frames it 🤔 But I remember specifically that the attitude of the 90s was like an alternate history, "going back to what they were doing in the 70s." No one can argue against this point: whiles 80s music was good, no one could escape what I'll call the "corny decade." It was a decade of strangeness and goofiness... To be honest.
I love Eddie , but what he fails to recognize is that 80's stuff was so cheesy on so many levels. From the drum reverb in productions to the fruity choruses, to the "party dude" interviews, to the whole look. For me personally we used to mock the "metal" kids in high school. And to be clear - not the ones wearing Maiden, Armoured Saint, Metallica, Sabbath, Motorhead gear. Those cats had it right. I could't wait until people figured out how lame & super soft that Motley Crue, Poison, BonJovi, Europe, Winger etc, were. Along came The Replacements, Nirvana, Sound garden, Alice in Chains, & STP to play real honest rock again. Good Lord when I hear 80's rock drums on the radio I can't change the channel quick enough. Those producers got what they deserved
Eddie was already in his 20s when Nirvana, grunge, and alternative rock blew up so he wasn't interested in discovering new sounds and styles because his music tastes had already formed by then. The new 90s music was for a new generation of kids not for people who were already in their 20s who grew up on the previous generation of music.
@@Chaz4543 I'm the same age as Eddie. I loved all those 90's bands but despised the hair metal in the 80's
"Those cats...* You twat 😂
Grunge lasted 5 years and sank very quick Grunge had no lasting period
@@diamondd2778 Only because the main face of the genre died. If Kurt Cobain had stayed alive, grunge would have carried on for a longer period of time.
I grew up with and loved 80’s hard rock and metal. Then I loved grunge and post-grunge alternative rock. 90’s was some of the best music ever
I got into AIC - STP- some Nirvana- hated Pearl Jam 😅
"Why do you think the 80s got looked over like that to a large extent?" "Because I think there's still a stigma against it. I think there's still a bias against it." True. Everybody know this. He goes on to say it's because those in the media who are anti-80s rock think it's style over substance. However, anything that has gone mainstream in any sense largely emphasizes style over substance. Even the "grunge" 90s bands had their look and sound and lyrical themes: flannels...disheveled look...depressing lyrics...heavy detuned riffs...raw production. These are cliches every bit as much as teased hair, heavily produced rock riffs, and overtly sexual lyrics. So the real question is, why did the 80s rock scene get singled out and destroyed in such a calculated manner? And why were Nirvana chosen (yes they were chosen) to be the chief wrecking ball and not Soundgarden or Alice in Chains? One could make the claim that Nirvana's chosen status to replace 80s rock was every bit as much, if not more, inorganic than the rise of 80s rock. That is, the ascendancy of the "realness" of "grunge" wasn't very real at all, and more a mainstream media and music business strategy.
It was exactly that. just CLICK. and there it was. great job, Daniel.
I think hair metal was sort of killed by convenience. LA’s Sunset Strip scene remained a hub for bands to get signed long after hair meta broke nationwide. And it was so easy for labels to sign bands from that scene when they had offices in the Sunset Strip. Basically, they gave us WAY more hair metal bands than we wanted. And even some of the better ones got ignored.
Labels and MTV were already looking for something different in hard rock by the late 80s, and that’s when Faith No More and Living Colour got huge, and King’s X and Saigon Kick got signed. And Soundgarden, Alice In Chains and Mother Love Bone got signed during that wave.
So once Nirvana got big, Soundgarden and AiC were putting out their second records with a big label, and Mother Love Bone’s follow-up band Pearl Jam had a record on the way.
And the big labels who were wondering how to market them could now say “They’re Seattle Grunge! You know, ALTERNATIVE music!”
And now MTV and radio could play entire blocks of alternative music. And hair metal was gone from the mainstream in less time than it took to read this comment (only one year, if even)
I feel like Nirvana/Grunge was just an excuse for the record companies to put in motion plans that had been brewing for some time. When you read interviews or bios with pretty much any band from that era, all of them talk about how the whole industry was in a state of flux. Most of the old corporate guard were being replaced by new blood at the executive level who not only had different tastes and sensibilities, but were also hungry to make their mark and push a new agenda. Between Nirvana/Grunge and Hip-hop, these individuals had the perfect tools to push their vision to the younger generation. Ever since it's been basically like living in a thousand year reich of shitty Rap, Alternative and Pop acts. I'm sure this was indeed a deliberate 'assassination' rather than just the organic 'death' of the whole 80's Hard Rock genre. It happened too swiftly and too completely to be a mere whim of circumstance.
ahh...the good ole days when there WAS a music industry and smart A&R that discovered and signed bands. Miss those days
It will be 30 years this April since Kurt’s passing.
If you didn’t come of age during 91-95 it’s impossible to even begin to explain the impact (musically, socially, and culturally) that the grunge/alternative movement had on the youth of the day.
I vividly recall older music fans at the time saying that our revolution was the closest thing to the Beatles that had ever come about. It’s just about the same time distance between the Beatles and Nirvana as it is to Nirvana to now and nothing has come remotely close to grunge’s impact since its explosion.
So much has been written, rewritten, and analyzed in 30 years but the fact remains grunge/alt was so much better in every possible aspect than hair metal (sound, production, chord structure, and of course lyrics) that it’s still embarrassing to note that both two genres operated from the same medium (guitar-based rock).
I saw an interview with Joe Elliot of Def Leopard just last week and when asked about grunge you could still see a visceral reaction of disdain in his body language and speech. It’s like, bro, that was nearly 30 years ago. Let your ego go.
Everyone ages and music changes. Grunge’s flame was a relatively quick 4-5 year burn with most of the key players succumbing to their demons. They will always be remembered as artists first though. Musicians and poets. And that’s what really bothers the hair metal guys.
Just a few years ago Eddie Vedder made an off-hand remark in a magazine about hating Motley Crew’s “Girls Girls Girls” WHEN IT CAME OUT and Nikki Sixx actually responded as if was a legit shot across the bow like it was 1989. It’s like, why in the hell would old man Vedder preplan an attack on old man Sixx and his band 30some years later?
These 80s guys never got over being exposed. Their music was cheesy and terribly produced. And it’s not like they weren’t trained musicians because many were. They had no interest in anything (don’t need nothing but a good time) aside from being rock stars. And it’s not like the 80s didn’t have good rock music you just had to go underground or to college radio to get it.
People slag on the grunge/alt guys being moody and depressed which is fair to some extent but at least it’s accurate considering how most of them left this earth at a young age.
I just feel like the 80s guys need to embrace what they did and be honest about it. A few do. Dee Snider of Twisted Sister seems to have a good attitude about the whole thing although his career was already over by the late 80s.
I came of age during that period and for the most part I hated grunge. I was still listening to "hair bands" in my Walkman. To me, most of the grunge singers sounded like they were trying to take a dump but couldn't squeeze one out. Kurt Cobain wasn't my hero and when he died I just shrugged. Not everybody saw grunge the way you saw it, all I saw was a bunch of people who needed to take shower and get off heroin. Most of their lyrics were depressing and not fun. Make of that what you will, "hair metal" has had numerous festivals and grunge barely any. Grunge in the end, as much as you and the music press say didn't make out so well in the long run, because nobody wants to be depressed all the time.
@@RockLibertyWarrior Did you even watch the video? You and Eddie Trunk are of the minority opinion on this topic.
Grunge as a genre was dead by 94
@@TheRubberStudiosASMR Only because the main face of the genre died in 1994. If Kurt Cobain had lived, grunge would have continued for a longer period of time
I turned 21 in 1989 and got to see Nirvana, Soundgarden, Mudhoney, Tad, The Fluid, all of the 1st wave bands at small bar shows. What a time to be alive!
What Eddie doesn’t see is that a big reason Nirvana was successful was because the culture wanted a change. 80s hair metal, whatever you want to call it, was vapid party music. It said nothing of substance and had no artistic merit in that regard. The musicians were outstanding and the singers were amazing- but what did they say?
Nirvana and grunge spoke to a generation of alienated kids. I wonder if that part is forgotten amid all the talk. Grunge felt like all those kids, myself included, had music that shared in their confusion and anger and depression and isolation. Even the way the grunge acts dressed, t shirt and jeans, felt so normal and relatable. Songs like Jeremy by Pearl Jam or Jesus Christ Pose by Soundgarden…on and on…said something meaningful unlike anything on radio. By the 90s it was common to see divorced families, race riots were starting, school shootings were starting…there was so much change that the younger generation experienced how could a party song possibly feel relatable? But a skinny kid from Seattle who was just as frustrated, wasn’t the voice of the generation, he was a part of the generation.
Eddie was already deep into his 20s when grunge exploded so he wasnt a "alienated kid" so naturally he didnt like it or get. it. It wasnt meant for him.
Heavy metal, or "hair metal", or whatever you want to call it, was always looked down upon by music fans who loved innovation in the punk rock genre. It doesn't matter how well it's played, recorded or produced, but anything that falls into that "cock rock" genre was embarrassing for most people to listen to. Nirvana understood and communicated that, but there were plenty of bands before them who did the same (Big Black, Dead Kennedys, Nomeansno, Fugazi, Pixies, etc.), but Nirvana obviously hit the criticism home hard, and it had an effect. What always puzzled me, as someone who was into Nirvana from 1988, was that - although I always considered them to be a punk rock band - when they got big some people considered them to be "heavy metal", and arguments about that would erupt from time to time. Myself, and my circle of friends who were all into big music in the late 80s and early 90s, considered most heavy metal to be the domain of children, (football) jocks, and bad films. There are some exceptions, but most metal bands were seen as nothing short of Spinal Tap...
Yes this... my first guitar was physically damaged and broken by two asshole jocky hockey kids when I was in 9th grade, and they mashed blue cheese packets into the pickups and output jack. All because they asked if I played any guns ‘n roses or aerosmith, I said I didn’t really like those types of bands and preferred Nirvana and Butthole Surfers or Pixies to 80’s “cock rock” so to speak, or the macho bonehead music. Most of my friends laughed at those bands because they were ridiculous, we would listen to them to make fun of them if we ever did.
This is the first Eddie Trunk interview I"ve heard where Eddie does not talk about himself. It's only 10 minutes long. I bet at the 11th minute Eddie namedrops and puffs himself.
I think there has been a kind of shift over the last two decades. I came of age in the early 2000s, and at the time the glam scene simply was not spoken of. I discovered that scene really late as a result, but when I first heard Dokken's Just Got Lucky I instantly connected the dots and heard that this, and not Led Zeppelin and their like, was where Guns N' Roses' Sweet Child of Mine actually had its roots. I was hooked.
I have a brother who is a decade younger than me, and I remember some years ago it turned out that some of his friends were listening to Poison, oblivious to their being a band you are (or at least were) told not to listen to. I have to admit that was a cool moment.
7:09 you really think Cinderella, Whitesnake or Bon Jovi can hold their own against Led Zeppelin? Really? What are you smoking because I want some.
Cinderella, Whitesnake & Bon Jovi were entertainment, more then they were music. Even if one doesn't like Zeppelin, it's hard to deny there was artistry there, and that the 80's bands all lacked it.
Keep in mind that Gangster Rap and County Western were also contributing factors to the decline in 80s music during the 90s. I know a lots of people who had been fans of 80s rock but 1991 were listening and embracing Garth Brooks, Reba McIntire, and Dr. Dre.
Gangsta rap killed off rock bands being as big as Nirvana ever again because no rock band could ever be as dangerous and threatening as rap was.
5:35 the 80s?
No, just the glam metal which was hated even back then by most musicians.
I think a lot of those groups just got overplayed and the sound was just played out at that point. I do think that it was manufactured but I also feel that it was a change that was long overdue. That being said, I really do wish we would have seen more out of some of those groups like extreme or white lion for instance. I'm somebody who grew up with grunge and I would say I prefer it in a lot of ways. I think Kurt Cobain was an awesome songwriter in a lot of ways and had some really cool sounds and his ethos I really appreciate it. But how can you not enjoy New no betancourt, I'm using voice to text I'm sure you can figure out who I'm talking about, or veto brada, again I'm talking about the guitarists from extreme and White Lion lol. So I would have really liked to continue to hear more from these people. So although I do think the switch was something that was just bubbling under the surface waiting to happen, I feel that the cold transition stopped the evolution of a lot of bands. I think the groups from the '80s could have learned a bit from the raw production style and interesting songwriting that the various different alternative artists had at that time. I think they both could have learned from each other. For instance, we saw later on that some of the guitarists from those grunge groups were actually super talented and started showing their prowess a bit more later on. Although I do think the overemphasis on guitar solos being flashy and technical was getting a bit irritating, there's no reason that guitar solos can't be interesting, soulful, emotional, and technically really cool. So I think instead of an on-off switch it would have been nice to see a kind of evolution even if there was a bit of a switch.
I remember the band.. Salty Dog. They put out 1 album and was crushed by grunge.
There's still a stigma against hair bands because the music is derivative and music culture has been significantly upgraded since the brief yet painful time in our history when Ratt and Motley Crue were the torchbearers for what previously was art in the hands of Led Zeppelin. These are the broad strokes. Lets also not forget that hair metal was created not as a form of rebellion but it signified a corporate takeover of youth culture. MTV was a huge factor in all of this. Meanwhile, there was all the real music of the 80s that was (until Nirvana broke) still underground. That music is still around today, and hair metal gets to play a county fair or two, but that was always where it was going to end up regardless.
I’m 55 and remember when i heard Nirvana when they came out….i dropped all my metal and goth records for 10 years .
And Goth is still big today because of Christian Death. A band made by Rozz and Valor.
Eddie's totally right about this. I was in college when the Nirvana thing happened. Anything/anyone attached to the 80's scene was instantly out of favor. The backlash was ridiculously horrible.
Glam metal killed itself ! All the bands were copycat'ing each other by the late 80's .
shame that last White Lion album Mane Attraction (that they spent a fortune on recording...apparently 1/4 million $) just sank because of Nevermind launching...such an incredible album ...top notch sound and production and it was just too late. Even a few months earlier and it woulda kicked hard. Musta killed the guys
There was a station in Philly called Y100 and it was straight alternative in the 90,s.
Eddie really does have the best taste in music, it’s painful to even watch him talk about grunge and the downfall of glam in the early 90s because his heart is in true rock n roll, poison, ufo, Dokken etc…
I don't disagree with anything Eddie said, but he left out the fact that all of those bands started to look, sound, and act, the same. There was a formula and it got really tired. He didn't mention how ready the audience was for something else. It wasn't just random, nor JUST the next big thing... hair/glam was ripe to be booted out. And the biggest of the big bands that all of those Glam metal bands were inspired by, continued to have success. Aerosmith, Van Halen, Guns n' Roses, Metallica had no problem selling records in 1992-95. The formulaic stuff is what had to go... And boy did it go.
I call bs on this. Can you honestly say that Skid Row's Slave to the Grind and Trixter's Give it to Me Good sounds the same? Does Great White's Congo Square sound the same as Winger's Rainbow in the Rose? Do either of them sound like Extreme's Warheads or Enuff Z'Nuff's Hollywood Ya?
For what is worth, all of the bands you mentioned were on a downwards spiral in the years 1992-1995; VH and GnR both flamed out after disappointing albums. Even Metallica, which ostensibly were still peaking, had each album sell less and less. Both the thrash scene and the classic metal scene suffered great sales losses through the 90s.
Memories grunge is such a bummer music compared to the 80s. Good time. I miss it.
Late summer 1991 I was working at a nightclub and helped load in the band Morbid Angel who were on tour, the sound guy while dialing in the PA was playing this I band I had never heard of, it caught my ear because it was simple, catchy and rock'n. I asked him who it was and he said it's this band Nirvana, they're going to be huge! It was an advance copy so the world was yet to catch on but about two weeks later Nevermind came out and the rest is history. Initially I liked them because it was different but had my reservations, it quickly was played out, the early 90's especially were so drab and dreary musically. There still was a strong underground metal scene which I gravitated towards but overall, it wasn't "cool" to like Judas Priest or the Scorpions anymore, music wasn't fun anymore....
cool video. thanx man.
It wasn’t only grunge that killed Rock n roll. It was Garth Brooks to. He took all the chicks from glam to cowboy hats.
Grunge/Alt exposed the late 80s LA glam metal scene for the nonsense that it was. Other rock/hard rock/metal bands fourished in 90s. Pearl Jam and Nirvana helped differentiate the Metallicas from the Wingers, for example.
Isn't this interview like 4 years old?
Yeah...he's been milking these for videos for years now
I remember grunge hitting when I was in junior high and I was still listening to Motley Crue, Guns n' Roses, Poison etc. in my Walkman and it wasn't a guilty pleasure either, all through junior high and high school I was known as "that kid". In fact, when Kurt Cobain died I just shrugged while everybody around me was crying in the hallway. "Grunge" was a legitimate, underground movement but the corporations and Mtv pushed it because they were sick of paying large amounts of money to these hair bands, their tours, albums and videos, it was a cynical move to boost their profits. The music press who was too "hip" for "corporate rock" gladly sneered at a lot of these hair bands and put them down to seem cool and trumpet "grunge". All these hipster types forget that "grunge" became what the hipsters hated about hair metal, overproduced, over hyped, plastic, all sounding the same etc. Yet the music press was so full of itself and arrogant it never admitted it, grunge died like hair metal but silently. Does Creed, Nickelback etc. ring a bell?
Who knew there would be this thing called "Resurgence." I also remember the new wave bands like "A Flock Of Seagulls" and etc were called hair bands in the early to mid-eighties.
IMO, there’s a reason why the 80’s glam metal scene is skipped over in the programming of classic rock radio. The reason is that the look and the scene were bigger than the music. Some consider Van Halen the beginning of glam metal. Well, VH’s music has never stopped being relevant and has always been played on rock radio. But once Jump came out and VH softened their music for for the mainstream and MTV, rock bands all started following them and did the same thing. But by the time Poison, Cinderella, Warrant and bands like that were dominating the charts, the whole scene had become a mockery of itself, and regardless of how talented many of those musicians were, the formula they all followed was so obvious and uninspiring. Most of the 90’s grunge bands I’m sure will tell you that VH was an inspiration for them, but not the glam metal cliche bands that followed them. The reason the 90’s grunge scene killed that glam scene so quickly was because the whole scene itself had no foundation. It was shallow and weak and originality was hard to find. Once the masses saw Kurt Cobain, the anti-glam punk rocker, and heard the first thirty seconds of Smells Like Teen Spirit, it was immediately obvious to almost everyone that something meaningful had arrived. It was undeniable. The glam scene was instantly irrelevant and now rock music fans had something they felt they could relate to and something that was speaking to them, unlike the glam scene that to most people was a strange world of spandex and hairspray, filled with songs about girls and good times, two things they had none of. Most music that stands the test of time does so because it speaks to people’s souls and even when dark or sad, somehow makes them feel relevant. The glam scene was filled with music and images that made the average teenager feel irrelevant and that’s the reason why the music didn’t survive or inspire future generations
Lots of good music came out of the 80s bands. I think the biggest issue was the image of the bands and their misoygnistic lyrics totally did not age well but I admit, I still find pleasure in some of it. Same with the 90s bands. I never really cared for Nirvana, it was pop mixed with heavy guitars… very catchy but too pop sounding for me. Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, and Pearl Jam were doing something new and really resonated with me as a 19-20 year old but I still loved Motley, GnR, & Def Lep.
From my recollection of that period, the glam bands didn't disappear overnight. I find that those bands promoted a lifestyle that eclipsed the music.
Was like the British invasion w the beatles leading the way in early 60s...just changed everything...so we're the early 90s...hasn't happened again since...probably never will thanks to the internet...diluted everyone's mindset, imagination, musical integrity and exposed the belly of the beast displaying how disloyal humans are to artistic integrity for clout and self absorption. Truly sad digital manifestation of how small and basic our minds really are in front of a mirror aka a camera in your hand. Indirectly reverting to 80s mythos of image driven "content" first , art second.
I was such a huge hair metal fan back in the day and I was so mad when grunge came out! But now Nirvana and Alice in Chains are my favorite bands, funny how things change! And I'll admit it, Im obsessed with Kurt Cobain!
i went to high school from 88-92 so the bands like whitesanake etc was what i grew up with and to live through grunge was insane and to see the hair bands stigmatized hurts.
I think one of the reasons Nirvana has lasted on the radio is because of its more stripped down, raw nature. A lot of that 90s stuff fits with the 70s when played together on the radio. The 80s stands out more and in a way sounds even more dated than a lot of 70s rock.
The underground metal and rock scene was Alive and kicking then
Very good
The music business ALWAYS latches on to the latest trends. I like Black Sabbath and Alice In Chains for all the same reasons, but at the music store Sab was under Heavy Metal and AIC was under Alternative.
80's bands were entertainers, 90's bands were artists, 80's bands were loud mouthed extroverts, 90's bands read books.
How about Metallica, Queensryche, Savatage, or Iron Maiden? They had pretty thoughtful lyrics, rife with literary references and sociopolitical observations. Oh, and they could play. Say whaaaat!?
Same thing happened to grunge but at a slower pace
Good point. Grunge was a 4-5 year run. By ‘96 Nirvana was long gone and the Foo Fighters were in, and STP was one of the biggest bands around. It was a weird time because hair bands were done, grunge was quickly fading and I remember suddenly liking Seal, Sarah McLachlan, and Shawn Colvin. It was a confusing decade.
It was awesome!
Hair metal was a joke by '91.
Never cheered for something more ever.
My got hooked up in 1989 we were working on our stuff at Rock one connections and I can tell you it was all marketing had nothing to do with music I played for 20 years in San Francisco straightforward Hard Rock heavy metal and we packed the house every night everybody hated that music but it was shoved in your face and it gave another generation a ball bat so they could reprogram them turn them into s*** and now look what we have today nobody cares about music at all bands or nothing now all bands rock and roll is still alive and well he hasn't gone anywhere radio is nothing to listen to It's just crap made by crap people to control crap people hard rock and heavy metal they still can't play it long live rock and roll
It was a brutal switch because those second third string glam metal acts Trunk championed were f***ing awful.
Songs always win. The “asteroid” didn’t hurt GNR.
That’s what happens when the labels are pushing a horrible style that the people don’t really like
GNR and Metallica towards the back end of the 80's was the beginning of the end for the glam stuff. GNR was overnight but Metallica more a slow burn with Puppets and Justice I literally remember people saying "fuck Poison and all those bands this is where it's at now". The Seattle scene finished it off.
gnr never stopped selling out stadiums
@@benburndred2226 I know, I'm saying the start of the hair bands decline had started before grunge and GNR was a huge reason for that. I think GNR pretty much toured the Illusions albums in stadiums the whole time Nirvana was at its peak.
most of those hair metal guys were only in their late 20s imagine being told at 28-29 that your washed up crazy
The bands that started out as what I call either hard rock or metal were good in the beginning of their career like Motley Crue cuz after Shout album they seemed to be more poppy sounding an more of chic type tunes which in a way I get it. An I loved Def Leppard as a kid an their last good album was pyromania and even that album was starting to get poppy sounding. But those bands had that raw hard sound in the beginning. And when a couple of friends I ran into back in the day stopped me an said check out the tape we just bought an they showed me the cover and they all looked like chics! It was poison! Now that I’m older I wouldn’t doubt the big wigs in the music biz had an agenda! Pun intended!😂 I started Highschool in 1989-90 school year and AIC, PEARL, NIRVANA, STP we’re a great welcome as far as I’m concerned! But now that I know more about STP and trying to learn their songs on guitar, it makes more sense that the Deleo brothers were into jazz cuz some of the chords in their songs I just couldn’t figure out cuz I was used to regular chords and barre chords, so they totally brought something a lil different to their music. Even tho rock is a partial spin off of jazz. And as far as my opinion goes all those bands are either hard rock or metal and even punk sounding to me. And it’s obvious that those band members were influenced by a lot of those bands like Crue & Leppard, they just went the wrong way with their sound in the 80’s. Especially what’s goin on in the world today how THEY are De-masculinizing men & De-feminizing women, I wouldn’t doubt there coulda been an agenda way back then….. But what do I know…. I try to appreciate all music, since I play an instrument, shouldn’t I? PEACE!
Surprised no Green Day or Smashing Pumpkins in the top 10, but I guess they'd probably have some tunes in the top 40.
I think the rise of feminism (third wave, I believe) is to blame for 80s rock still being overlooked. Grunge came in with the Gen X bands, a generation of men raised by women. Kurt Cobain was a noted feminist who's ideology went hand-in-hand with that of the mainstream media's and counter to what the 80s metal bands generally wrote and sang about.
I remember it like yesterday: it was the fall of '91, my senior year of high school. All of the kids who were wearing Motley Crue t-shirts before summer break were wearing flannel. I said, "Who the hell is Nirvana?" Because by that time I was listening to stuff like Bolt Thrower and Nocturnus, and I thought grunge was super-lame. But everybody adored it, and the perception for the next decade was that metal was dead as a doornail.
I don't remember if being that way. All I know is that twenty years went by and suddenly Nirvana was the band. 😊
It’s difficult to articulate how ridiculous glam metal looked at that time. We were using flying Vs for firewood. Even KISS took their makeup off.
Kiss took off the make-up… in 1983, just as glam started rolling.
Kiss was still wearing makeup but it wasn't there trademark makeup I remember gene had I think it's called blush on the cheeks and they looked ridiculous
It was the best thing that could have happened to rock at that time. Glam/hair music had become a boring formula that churned out watered down garbage. Even the best bands from that time were on the downslope.
Rock radio is so boring, and the fact that those 10 overplayed songs are still the most played songs even today on rock radio shows that. So much great metal still being made, yet is ignored by corporate radio in favor of mainstream "alt" rock from 1991-94 is downright sad. Glad I no longer listen to FM.
As much as I loved that music it was inevitable. Band after band were coming out one after the other it started getting ridiculous how much they looked alike sounded alike something had to change.
Nirvana was a tsunami that took out the weak hair bands like lightning striking.
Hair metal is like any other genre. You have the innovators and the good shit. Then you have the copy cats and the bad shit.
I love both scenes tbh however grunge just hits harder Aic is my favorite band of all time!
Well yeah, do you want to listen to something that has an edge to it or Unskinny Bop by Poison? The music that has an edge is going to last. Doesn’t mean unskinny bop doesn’t have a place, but it doesn’t hold a candle to them bones by Alice n chains.
Anyone who has looked at the music charts from 1990 could see that some kind of change was needed. Outside of AC/DC releasing Thunderstruck, the rock charts were basically a few C-tier hair metal songs and one hit wonders. R.E.M. busted their way through to mainstream success in early '91 after years of knocking on the door, but then summer '91 led to that ridiculous stretch of releases with Metallica, RHCP, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and Smashing Pumpkins all having big releases.
soundgarden was gnr's support group at the height of their fame[soungarden] whats that tell you
Mudhoney was the best of the Seattle grunge bands, they started the whole thing and never got big.
100%.
Its pretty much the same list for most plays on spotify. Was just reading Danny Goldbergs book serving the servant and he mentions it
Marketing! - same as how they rebranded punk as new wave to get some airplay. Grunge is just rock - same as it ever was.
Ok, the end was abrupt? I disagree. The support ended abruptly, That is undeniable, but the glam rock scene started a serious demise around 1988. Skid Row was the exception in 89, but Winger, Warrant, Steelheart, and Firehouse (as talented as the guys were/are) were putting out such a burned out manufactured sound - an anthem and a ballad. Poison, Ratt, Bon Jovi, and Motley Crue all put out their 5th (and final as far as I’m concerned) albums. The party was ending. By 89’ every metalhead I knew had long graduated to thrash to the point where glam lost its edge. Pantera’s CFH and Sepultura’s Arise…. Come on- those guys made songs like Unskinny Bop and Cherry Pie unbearable. Even the glam bands didn’t like their own songs. Then Trixter… I mean come on. It sucks that bands like Vain, Bang Tango, and Junkyard didn’t get to the party soon enough, but god… Van Hagar was on their 3rd adult rock record. So metal, after being ridiculed for being satan worshipers, wearing lingerie and makeup, the whole pmrc thing and trying to de-metal kids, the industry started shoveling the softest version of metal they could find to mtv and radio, and the popular kids who previously wanted nothing to do with metal all the sudden got a product watered down enough to claim it their own… So anyway, in 1990 you’re watching Trixter sing Give it to me Good and you get mad in 1991 because Nirvana grabbed enough attention to wake up the industry and shovel the 80s into the archives. Let’s just call it: More than Words being played 24/7 on the radio was basically TAPS playing for the glam scene.
Man, as someone who was born just as Nirvana burned out, I really cannot agree that Hair Metal could sit with anything of the 70's and the 90's. I can see why someone who grew up with that music would feel so but for someone who's emotionally disconnected from those all those 3 decades, I can't listen to most hair metal and I don't think it's just the hair and the outfits honestly. The songs were formulaic, even the voices have what I call that "bon jovi" vibe where they all sound the fucking same hah.
I'm sure the backlash was complete horse shit and unfair seeing how they were being criticized for the act, the excesses and such but at the same time, I really do think there was a bit of stagnation in music during the 80's. It's way worse these days though, modern music has completely regressed, not just stagnated.
Go find that interview by Nikki Sixx in 89' saying exactly what everyone knew about glam but never said out loud xD.
Yeah, bud. But you weren’t there so you actually have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
@@headyBC Right, because my opinion in their music couldn't possibly be "correct". Not like I can whip up spotify and compare or anything 🤣
If the hair metal guys in '89 were saying their genre is staler than a week old piece of bread, I'll take their word for it over yours.
You are doing a good job but I see two bad points here If I may ad
1- I don't think the industry dictates whether rock is dead or not, they just where in it "for the money" during 80's and 90's.
2- You are leaving the "Scene between" behind
There where much other bands doing things other than Nirvana, such as Spacemen 3 or The Swans that reinvented rock during the 80's.
And there influence still reings much of the underground where rock is from.. just like the blues.
Honorable mention: Nirvana where a great band, no question but we need to let them go and start looking for others that need to be recognised too and stop talking about the same thing, same bands, same history over and over.
Still much appreciated your work but please get out of the mainstream box and realized the truth
There is no mainstream for rock...
We don't need another grunge hero, we need to hear and study more music and look forward and let the past be Wath it was
Nirvana were my Jesus when I was 8 when Teen Spirit came out. As a middle aged man my punk rock is Thrash Metal from the 80s. My all time rock star heros are Mozart and Prince. Prince, now he mastered all the instruments, wrote incredible music, many hits, and he wrote hits for other artists making their careers for them, and....when I listen to Prince I struggle to categorize his music. That says something. When I ask myself, "what genre is this?"... The first answer without thinking is " Prince". That's a musical hero to me as an adult. One thing I've realised is that my musical hero's aren't necessarily the ones I'm listening to the most at a given time.
The stygmata is due to the excesses, the misogyny, the politics and the sociocultural ethos that the 80's had in contrast to 90's, it will always be there.
Stigma*, stigmata is the wounds of Christ appearing on peoples hands, I usually don’t make corrections like this, but the definitions are just too far apart for me not to say anything
last time i checked girls like sex just as much as guys and those girls that hung around those bands were down for everything just as much as the guys. were i hate when you hear these libs who werent even alive in the 80s say that these bands exploited women when those girls were having the time of their lives and were there willingly partying with those bands no one was holding a gun to their heads
Eddie is a knowledgeable guy but I don't agree with him on his stance about 80's rock not being on classic rock radio. I work in classic rock radio and so many 80's songs get air time. Motley, GNR, Poison, Ratt, Def Leppard, Whitesnake, Quiet Riot, Bon Jovi, Skid Row. Sure you don't see Bullet Boys, Kix, Trixter or Faster Pussycat but those bands were never big in the first place
Bon jovi
Motley crue
Def leppard
Guns n roses
All still tour. Grunge came and went too. Grunge is hardly still selling out huge stadiums now .
Burning Time by LAST CRACK was a great find for me in the early 90 s. Never liked all the other so called Grunge stuff. Hairmetal? Dunno. My old 70 s heavy rockbands like WHITESNAKE sometimes hit the big time going there. Would not call AEROSMITH hairmetal.
Btw, what was and is big in USA still does not bother me.
Such a shame Y and T never got what they deserved. So I skipped a lot along the way.
Never was into real heavy metal, I m a 60 s/70 s man and still enjoy the old stuff. Last week saw GLENN HUGHES plus band firing on all cylinders.
NIRVANA et all, overrated depressive punk/newwave leaning shit.
Glam destroyed my music career, we were based in Los Angeles
Rock is dead and will never be the same. The generations and times have changed. Tbh
No way mann.....
That's like saying PUNK is dead also!
As long as theres a pissed off kid or dude with a guitar in his room!
Itll never die!
Rather or not theres a good wave or scene in the mainstream!!?!?
That's a different story
If rock is dead, then why are bands still playing it? I'm not talking about middle-aged codgers like me, but young kids doing metal and hard rock.
Who the hell even bothers listening to radio anymore? Smells Like Teen Spirit has become the new Brown Sugar and there's nothing anyone csn do about it.
Radio Friendly Unit Shifter indeed.
And modern rock can't produce anything worth listening to. It can't produce any rock stars basically. I feel sorry for today's youth. At least I had good music to get me thru when the world got overwhelming. Now the world is an unstable, explosive, fucked up place and they have MGK. Jesus wept.
Maybe I'm wrong but didn't he call early 90's grunge? Grunge is a style of clothing not a type of music.. bands from Seattle do not sound alike
In the early 80s Mark Arm used the words "pure grunge" to describe his band's "sound" and his band had not even been created yet. In the late 80s a Subpop producer used the word "grunge" to describe the music of three bands they had signed, one of the being Nirvana.
@travzimmerman1340 my point nirvana doesn't sound anything like pearl jam who doesn't sound anything like AiC who doesn't sound anything like sound garden & from what I remember the big 4 didn't like the term either
80’s glam bands had good guitar players, but everything else totally sucked.
The eighties "Hair metal" is looked down on because it was gay they wanna say it was ultra masculine but many kids knew that shit was gay.
both grunge & glam were not my cup of tea, some of the music isn't bad. Nirvana was jockstrap, and glam looked goofy later on
Trunk being a “rock journalist” doesn’t like the term “hair band” I guess it’s ok that he uses the term “Cookie Monster” for any music with “not clean vocals”