I remember when I first heard we weren't going to be playing as Marston in RDR2 and instead some guy named Arthur Morgan, disappointed doesn't even come close to how I felt, but damn what a story it was to playthrough with Arthur, playing as John in the epilogue was no where near as fun as playing as Arthur.
Felt the same way. I put off playing rdr2, and went through ghost of tsushima instead simply for that reason. When I get to actually playing rdr2, I'm glad what I felt was not justified. I enjoyed playing as Arthur a lot more than I did John in the epilogue.
Its because RDR2 John is trying too hard to be mr. "wholesome" and has none of the badass or cool qualities that RDR1 had. Which kind of flies in the face of who he is really supposed to be.
One thing that seems to bother me the most about john is whenever i greet people while going fast on a horse, it doesnt sound like a greet but more of john trying to get their attention to ask them a question. I dont know why this bothers me as much as it does lol
treat yourself to the Antagonise options instead much more satisfying but while your Arthur try to greet twice then antagonise as there is lots of third options dialogue for greet + greet + antagonise = funny put downs formula IE howdy miss. you remind me of a female i once knew. anyway I really loved that horse!
YESSS, why is this exactly what I did on purpose. Killed EVERYONE. walked into the saloon and everybody just standing around like 👁️👄👁️ Then I killed em Then I pointed a gun at the bartender because I already seen a video about this from this guy
I felt the same way in general, I couldn't be bad in Red Dead, I always played with high honour. On GTA (even though it was the same manufacturer) I had to qualms with beating/shooting/blowing things and people up and raising hell, it was fun, particularly in Vice City.
@@whitezombie10 ... because as John it literally does nothing story wise. Only benefits you get are slightly discounted items in shops and some other minor shit.
For me it's the opposite. As Arthur, I'm supposed to be a brutal and murderous outlaw. As John, I'm supposed to have turned over a new leaf and become an ordinary citizen.
U can't rob this NPC in fact you can't rob the bars on the first place not even with arthur he just wanted a scene I'd say the reason to hate playing as John is getting a call about scar face or not being able to swim they hit the worst cuz with arthur u safe from those
@@aliddda328 the reason he can’t swim is because in the first game there was no swimming mechanic or animation for any character or npc at all so as a nod to rdr1 they made it so he’s renowned for not being able to swim
This is why I playing as John, at this point he's a young and up and coming gangster but he's still has the moral compass of the John we all know and love. So people hold him accountable when he slips up BECAUSE he hasn't been in the game long enough to become apathetic yet, people don't hold Arthur accountable because he's experienced they know what to expect out of him.
Comparing the characters in both games. John was really more cut out to be a family man than an outlaw he just didn't have other opportunities. Arthur was more someone who was meant to be an outlaw and wanted to be someone else. Granted another point of the second game is that there's honor on both sides of the law. However one side clearly ends up winning in the end.
i dont like it cause in an open world playing as a very defined character i like to have actual reasons to explore and do what i want john's got no reason to leave his family on pointless little voyages and is so rich he doesn't need to rob. arthur was an actual active outlaw and always needed money this is more controversial, this is why i prefered playing as jack as well, he's completely free to do as you please
@@mossymoose8920 ikr we got 20000$ at the end of the epilogue, thats over 600,000 in todays money. we dont have any incentive to do anything ever again, unlike the start of the story and start of the epilogue, where we actually do stuff like bounties and robberies bc we need the money
Rockstar did Epilogue John dirty. 1)They ruined his epilogue look and ruined his animations (He looks like Arthur reskin) 2)His character is far different than his npc and rdr1 version 3)He gets belittled by everyone 4)He was meant to have more content and better voices for him. 5)Rockstar did even design his own clothes, his own body, his own hair, his own better animations for walk, run, shoot, hold gun, and more.
@@weplo1597 Yeah the entire point of epilogue should've been that we see John character development into what we see during events of Rdr1 but they couldn't do that Rdr2 is a good game but hell there are so many parts where it's just plain lazy writing
@@sauge677 the fact that they included these traits into them both is amazing, I also prefer Arthur's lines but it makes sense for John's character that his are duller
That's the only thing concerning Arthur's character that I actually agree with. John sounds like he's reporting to a drill sergeant "sir" "hey" "buddy!!!!"
It’s funny how you can be riding around accidentally brush into a 100 foot radius of some random dudes camp and start a gun fight. All seriousness I never thought I’d like a protagonist more then John but Arthur is the one
Goes back to the first standoff in RDR1 between him and Bill before Bill just shoots him. Dude really should've made sure he was dead, this is the same dude who spent several days severely wounded up in the mountains when another gang member succumbed to their injuries WITH medical assistance
Jokes on them, if you play rdr1, you realize that John, unlike Arthur, truly became a legend of the west, much like the other legends. He participated in much grander spectacles if the technology of videogames in 2010 could show us. He fought on both sides of mexican revolution war, with the side he was on prevailing. He took out numerous gangs singlehandedly. Imagine how that would have looked on rdr2 engine with the amount of possible npcs on screen etc. Also the fame rank, that somehow was missing in rdr2 was a very nice touch. At the beginning of the game, npc would react to or greet you passively, but at the end of the game and during the duels, a special music would play, similar to ''american venom'', and people would be like ''holy shit thats John marston''. The difference is John was mostly trying to be the ''white hat cowboy'' and his adventures apart from the new austin chapter are more like ''oddyseus journey'', in terms of how grand they are, the stuff of legends. Meanwhile Arthur and the gang did do some nasty or ''cool'' things, but nothing that compared to what John has done in RDR1 in terms of badassery.
yeah, Arthur robbed a few banks, killed a few gangsters and died of turbosomething I cannot even spell that disease. while it feels pretty realistic, we value games for something else
This is the comment I’ve been looking for. Arthur Morgan is lit but John is the goat. Everyone got attached to Arthur reeeeaal fast and for good reason but still, facts are facts.
When they made this game, it's almost like they forgot John was supposed to be smart. He doesn't use fancy words or wax poetic, even though it was implied those were habits he picked up from Dutch in his teenage years long before the events of this game. Just because he's not the main character anymore doesn't mean they had to turn him into a complete buffoon.
It’s bad writing, simple as that. It’s disgusting how they absolutely (and intentionally) NERFED his character in favor of Arthur. The worst part is that 85% of the fandom don’t care or call it out because RDR2 is majority of the player-base. So they think RDR2 John is a true representation of his character.
@@supremedreams6789 his okay for me in rdr 2, for me he is more realistic in rdr 2 than rdr 1, in rdr 1 he is kinda stuck up and typical badass cowboy cliche, while rdr 2 makes him more like a human, its not that bad writing, after all the rdr 2 story its obviously he became more thoughtful, wise, and calming person, its just another OG rdr 1 fanboys always have to complain about everything
@@labelnineNot bad writing? So you mean to tell me it makes sense for John to act stupid af in 1899 to acting even more dumb and weird in 1907 but suddenly in 1911 he starts to act like how Dutch originally taught him while also being confident, witty, sarcastic, smart and not taking shit from anyone? All from working in a farm for 4 years? That type of knowledge you get from years of being taught like that and from all the death and murder you see that hardens you up. That’s not just something you act like because you suddenly woke up and felt like acting that way or because of milking cows and feeding chickens for 4 years or because your family was suddenly taken away. It would make sense for him to act like in the epilogue in 1899 and 1907 he should’ve started acting more like rdr1 John. His character was clearly retconned to make Arthur look better. Also you can’t talk about “rdr1 fanboys” like rdr2 fanboys are known for complaining and criticizing anyone who talks badly about the game or Arthur (like you’re clearly doing)
@@BeatleHarrison I like john in rdr 2 , all you fanboys are simps for badass cowboy stereotype shit like marston from red dead 1 , your guys is surely whiners , i mean they changed him for Arthur , but thats a game after all and shouldnt cry so much about it
Another reason is the narrative. It’s so hard to try to be playing outlaw when you’re constantly reminded that this particular part of the story is where you’re suppose to be DONE at being an outlaw. It just doesn’t make sense to me for John to be doing crimes when they’re laying low. Even more so if you choose to rob Pearson of all people! This in turn also affected Red Dead Online negatively, because that mode really allows you to craft your own cowboy experience freely, but the microtransaction and tedious grind really holds it back.
as arthur i was trying to be the kindest man with high honor almost at the max, never robbed anyone / stealed any coach and barely antagonized anyone ever, but as john..... discovered the "bandit" quest.......... god i'm being bad BAD.
Rockstar did Epilogue John dirty. 1)They ruined his epilogue look and ruined his animations (He looks like Arthur reskin) 2)His character is far different than his npc and rdr1 version 3)He gets belittled by everyone 4)He was meant to have more content and better voices for him. 5)Rockstar did even design his own clothes, his own body, his own hair, his own better animations for walk, run, shoot, hold gun, and more.
Playing as John in the epilogue felt like the whole story was over. Even though he's the main protagonist of the first game, everything felt like it was the end after RDR2 when every living member of the gang went their separate ways
Let's be honest, they absolutely nerfed John on this game and massacred giving that Arthur's body structure. I mean, I love playing as him, and kinda don't understand why people want to shit on him by everything he does, it's like when Andy got his new toy Buzz and despised Woody. John can do almost everything Arthur does, but, like I said, the nerfed him a lot with the jokes, charisma and some other things; but it kinda fits his character development, from becoming a not that imponent and funny guy to the absolutely gangster he is in rdr1, still I wouldn't have nerfed him that bad and still would have kept his rdr1 essence.
I enjoy Arthur’s NPC’s interaction than John. I think the reason is, Arthur is more socialable when it comes to outside activities where John mostly stays at the camp or less interact with NPCs outside camp. Also the fact, he can’t swim is such a shame
Neither of them can swim really. They just kinda' flounder until they run out of stamina. (Tried to swim to treasure on an island in the middle of a lake as Arthur. Didn't go well.)
Rockstar did Epilogue John dirty. 1)They ruined his epilogue look and ruined his animations (He looks like Arthur reskin) 2)His character is far different than his npc and rdr1 version 3)He gets belittled by everyone 4)He was meant to have more content and better voices for him. 5)Rockstar did even design his own clothes, his own body, his own hair, his own better animations for walk, run, shoot, hold gun, and more.
But it makes more sense for Arthur to shoot people more than John. I understand people being upset to not play with Arthur (it’s the same with RDR1 and John) but it’s like people can’t put their feelings away for story purposes. Rockstars fault because they dulled down Johns character in RDR2 so Arthur could stand out more. I’m not saying Arthur wasn’t beautifully written cause he was I just find it unfair that John gets so much stigma. But I am an OG fan so that may explain it
John in the epilogue is ment to be a changed man, trying to put his past behind but it eventually crept up to him and got Bureau agents holding him in chains.
@@whyareyouevenreadingmyname950 oh I didn’t mean any offence bro, I was just expecting something else when I started reading your comment. It’s all good don’t worry
@@sethburch9273 i can respect that and almost agree..i only say that bc john lives a little longer and in RDR1 he is mostly shooting people. RDR2 has a lot of “errands” and focuses on hand to hand a little more. :)
I once spent 5 minutes antagonizing the Blackwater deputy. Apparently if lawmen tell you to move on instead of giving you a bounty, you can insult them all you want and I took advantage of that HARD.
@@Popcorn-ch7uy Oh yeah in gameplay the only difference I can think of is swimming, dialogue, and depending on how late game the Arthur is, TB. The only real issue I do have is the model, especially since it's in the game but they had to can it because of crunch time. And John's insults aren't as good as Arthur's or RDR1 John's.
It’s a nod to the fact that there was no swimming animation coded into rdr1 so they used that to have him renowned for not knowing how to swim and remember he isn’t real lol
@@cym2605 Nobody could swim in that game, could they? Thus, there was no reason to single him out, and to punish you for finishing the game by giving you a character that could never be as capable as the one you'd been playing the whole game was just crap.
@@ronarprefect7709 swimming in this game is pointless anyways. Arthur can swim for like 45 seconds so I don’t know why you’d swim especially when it’s better to travel through small bodies of water on horseback
I tried the exact same thing with Arthur a couple of times and she had two reactions 1: She had a shotgun and she shot at me 2: The same thing in the video, she just hit me and go away
@@pnwfisher2144 What I mean is that there are no side missions that are available for John only, like it would be better if there were side missions in New Austin that only John could access
They did John dirty in the rdr2 writing, thew newer generation who never played rdr1 dont even realize what a badass he ends up being later on (and should have been more so that way in rdr2 they made him too awkward)
I like playing as John in this game then rdr , I just never grew to the character , especially in the epilogue were he puts on his classic outfit and for some reason In the mission were you Save Johns boss , it feels like Arthur’s watching over me in the night time sky full of stars , I forgot the name of the mission
I think Arthur's roasts are better than John's but least with John I don't have to worry much about honor. But the way I've done playthroughs is just bad honor all the way till after Guarma I take time to change Arthur after he finds out he has TB so I can get the better endings.
I think this was a short you did (specifically the van horn one), but this isn't something specific to John. I've had these interactions with Arthur as well. I much prefer John to Arthur, but these are really reasons as they aren't specific to John. Things like: being unable to swim, preference for Arthur in general, his walking/running animation, I consider all valid. I've had the same interactions with Arthur so it comes off weird saying it's against John.
I always saw it as Arthur is the Artful Dodger Jack Dawkins. Funny, outgoing, sly wit, deeply flawed. And John is Oliver Twist. Serious, self-critcal, whiny, deeply flawed. Both make for great stories, but one make for a much better video game protagonist.
I wonder, if many of us will get our wish, and rdr3 will be the Rise of the Van der Linde gang. Maybe with an epilogue that shows us what actually happened in Blackwater...?
Arthur really did steal the show in this game. In a way, it's kinda genius. They introduce him, give him this great deep story, make you relate to him and see his good sides and his bad, then they take him away from you at the end and force you to play as John. It makes you miss Arthur, like someone you actually know died. Solidifying him as a legend in your mind that can't be felt again (unless you start a new game of course lol). But by doing that, I think that's the secret touch that makes Arthur such a beloved character. You only get him for a short window of time. The entire main game, yes, but once that's beat, the epilog is pretty much just any time you wanna pick up the game and play it again after beating it. And every time you do, dear Arthur won't be there 😢 it's just not the same 💔 it's the brilliant icing on the cake that shoves him right in to a hall of fame in your mind. Otherwise, he'd still be a great character, but you would be able to play as him whenever. Almost taking him for granted in a way. What a way to make a legendary character! Hell I even started over a new game just BECAUSE I missed Arthur. I wouldn't have done that if they left him alive in the end to freely play as. God damn Rockstar you really did nail it with this game and character!
''John Morgan'' is the main reason I don't like playing as ''John'' in RDR2 its not John.... its Arthurs Body / beard / hair. ( but black ) with Johns Marston's face & voice. Don't care for John in RDR2. i have beaten the game 6 times over now and every time I kill Micah i just do a new save to play as Arthur again.
I got extremely angry after Arthur died I burned that stupid replacement horse alive "Rachael" because I lost my Standardbred "Pallas" that stuck with me through the whole game. I shot up every town I went to, shot Micah in the balls, took the bad option everywhere I went cause I was playing as John. When at the beginning of the game I was Angry I WASN'T playing as John lol
im almost 39 and i played a LOT of games and yet this story.... wish i played the first one too :D and boy did i think san andreas and gta v had a good story :D
@@Orchid.Mantispede My best advice: buy the Ps3 Slim. It has Ps2 compatibility! I have the Super Slim so I can't play Ps2 games. It is worth it, believe me!
I don't like John as much because his dialogue is so much less friendly and charismatic than Arthur's. Like I appreciate how they're diffirent personalities show but like, John feels like he doesn't want to greet anyone and he's forcing himself to do it, Arthur feels like he's having an amazing day and wants to share that feeling with the world
I love RDR 1 John Marston , such a hero and a badass RDR 2 John Marston is a bitch tbh , John's my favorite character in all of Red Dead... but I can't stand RDR 2 John...
@@ha1up We dont know enough about mac callendar let alone davey other than 1 they are both of Scottish origin 2 prone to violence 3 mac was a brawler 4 davey was an alcoholic 5 mac beat up sailors 6 davey got shot in his stomach/ right abdomen. 7 the pinkertons and andrew milton finished off mac callendar They both were probably middle aged
Beta Arthur is more menacing though. He tortures a man for fun in one of cut content audio. Also he yells and gets angry at camp for sitting around during chp1. He was supposed to be really angry enforcer of this gang.
If you want have fun playing as John then I recommend not finishing storylines as Arthur and letting John wrap them up in his honor. Its cool to have John fill in the pages of the journal Arthur wasnt able too. Also Buell in the epilogue is a must.
Same thing for me. Playing as Marston feels like a total anti-climax after spending the bulk of the game as Arthur Morgan. The family man persona makes for a very boring character.
Rockstar did Epilogue John dirty. 1)They ruined his epilogue look and ruined his animations (He looks like Arthur reskin) 2)His character is far different than his npc and rdr1 version 3)He gets belittled by everyone 4)He was meant to have more content and better voices for him. 5)Rockstar did even design his own clothes, his own body, his own hair, his own better animations for walk, run, shoot, hold gun, and more.
Rockstar does this . Even in Rdr1 , after spending hours as John Marston, he is killed by Edgar Ross and we've to play as Jack Marston to avenge his death
@@roachdoggjr419 idk Arthur and the whole rest of the gang seem like pieces of shit and their all criminals I believe everything that happend is justice apon them.
I remember when I first heard we weren't going to be playing as Marston in RDR2 and instead some guy named Arthur Morgan, disappointed doesn't even come close to how I felt, but damn what a story it was to playthrough with Arthur, playing as John in the epilogue was no where near as fun as playing as Arthur.
Felt the same way. I put off playing rdr2, and went through ghost of tsushima instead simply for that reason. When I get to actually playing rdr2, I'm glad what I felt was not justified. I enjoyed playing as Arthur a lot more than I did John in the epilogue.
I don't know I loved the parts playing as John I think they killed the whole game never played a game I got that into the story
Lord
Its because RDR2 John is trying too hard to be mr. "wholesome" and has none of the badass or cool qualities that RDR1 had. Which kind of flies in the face of who he is really supposed to be.
👍
One thing that seems to bother me the most about john is whenever i greet people while going fast on a horse, it doesnt sound like a greet but more of john trying to get their attention to ask them a question. I dont know why this bothers me as much as it does lol
Feels like he's just shouting at em
@@AshwinY ikr, “HEY, BUDDY” “YOU, MISTER”
treat yourself to the Antagonise options instead
much more satisfying
but while your Arthur try to greet twice then antagonise as there is lots of third options dialogue for greet + greet + antagonise = funny put downs formula
IE
howdy miss.
you remind me of a female i once knew.
anyway I really loved that horse!
Yeah, he usually just yells "MISTER!!"
AH YES SAME! there has to be a reason they did that surely. maybe it’s him getting more comfortable talking to strangers 🤔
I don’t feel as guilty causing a massacre in van horn with John then with Arthur lol.
So true 😅
YESSS, why is this exactly what I did on purpose. Killed EVERYONE. walked into the saloon and everybody just standing around like 👁️👄👁️
Then I killed em
Then I pointed a gun at the bartender because I already seen a video about this from this guy
Lmaooo i did the same thing, massacring people with a shotgun
I felt the same way in general, I couldn't be bad in Red Dead, I always played with high honour. On GTA (even though it was the same manufacturer) I had to qualms with beating/shooting/blowing things and people up and raising hell, it was fun, particularly in Vice City.
Why would you feel guilt about van horn of all places
Npcs are in grave danger when I'm playing with John instead of Arthur.
Especially since honour doesnt matter
@@AA-bz1pr why?
@@whitezombie10 ... because as John it literally does nothing story wise. Only benefits you get are slightly discounted items in shops and some other minor shit.
@@AA-bz1pr yeah
For me it's the opposite. As Arthur, I'm supposed to be a brutal and murderous outlaw. As John, I'm supposed to have turned over a new leaf and become an ordinary citizen.
Points a gun at someone
Doesn’t do anything else to threaten the person he’s robbing
Gets punched
Blames it on the fact he’s playing as John
U can't rob this NPC in fact you can't rob the bars on the first place not even with arthur he just wanted a scene I'd say the reason to hate playing as John is getting a call about scar face or not being able to swim they hit the worst cuz with arthur u safe from those
@@aliddda328 the reason he can’t swim is because in the first game there was no swimming mechanic or animation for any character or npc at all so as a nod to rdr1 they made it so he’s renowned for not being able to swim
@@aliddda328 u can rob that npc.you just have to press triangle near her and then threaten with a gun.
Misses the joke
Where was the place he robbed where was it was it in van horn was it a bar
This is why I playing as John, at this point he's a young and up and coming gangster but he's still has the moral compass of the John we all know and love. So people hold him accountable when he slips up BECAUSE he hasn't been in the game long enough to become apathetic yet, people don't hold Arthur accountable because he's experienced they know what to expect out of him.
"This is why i like playing" *****
I love your profile picture!
"I'm a bad man, but i have a heart."
-John Marston
34 years is old young xD
@@seamuswbiggerarmalite3379 To most of the gang's standards yes that is young.
Comparing the characters in both games. John was really more cut out to be a family man than an outlaw he just didn't have other opportunities. Arthur was more someone who was meant to be an outlaw and wanted to be someone else. Granted another point of the second game is that there's honor on both sides of the law. However one side clearly ends up winning in the end.
well put
i dont like it cause in an open world playing as a very defined character i like to have actual reasons to explore and do what i want
john's got no reason to leave his family on pointless little voyages and is so rich he doesn't need to rob. arthur was an actual active outlaw and always needed money
this is more controversial, this is why i prefered playing as jack as well, he's completely free to do as you please
That’s more of a overall design flaw than it is a character.
Making money in this game was way too fucking easy and kinda jarring
@@mossymoose8920 ikr we got 20000$ at the end of the epilogue, thats over 600,000 in todays money. we dont have any incentive to do anything ever again, unlike the start of the story and start of the epilogue, where we actually do stuff like bounties and robberies bc we need the money
I could have bought several mansions by the end of act 2... Arthur didnt need money. Try again.
@@grilledleeks6514 at the first 3-5 hours. implying at the start of the game. as i said
@@mossymoose8920 Easy? you must be joking, it was easier to make money in Red Dead Redemption ithan it is in this one.
Especially through hunting.
It's funny to see the progression, john goes from being a laughing stock push-over in rdr2 to being the biggest badass of all time in rdr
Rockstar did Epilogue John dirty.
1)They ruined his epilogue look and ruined his animations (He looks like Arthur reskin)
2)His character is far different than his npc and rdr1 version
3)He gets belittled by everyone
4)He was meant to have more content and better voices for him.
5)Rockstar did even design his own clothes, his own body, his own hair, his own better animations for walk, run, shoot, hold gun, and more.
pretty much@@weplo1597
@@weplo1597 Yeah the entire point of epilogue should've been that we see John character development into what we see during events of Rdr1 but they couldn't do that
Rdr2 is a good game but hell there are so many parts where it's just plain lazy writing
I honestly feel like rockstar could have wrote John way better in rdr2
@@Mcsnickers_7yeah the whole epilogue felt rushed
I don’t know if this makes any sense but
Arthur’s “Greet” >>> John’s “Greet”
SIR! I love Johns greet greet antagonise lmao. Arthur flows so well but John just doesn’t give a shit lmao.
@@lucadeeley8377 yeah I always get into more fights playing John, he has no filter haha
@@lucadeeley8377 John antagonizes like a middle schooler honestly lmao, i prefer arthur's because his actually are pretty witty/threatening usually
@@sauge677 the fact that they included these traits into them both is amazing, I also prefer Arthur's lines but it makes sense for John's character that his are duller
That's the only thing concerning Arthur's character that I actually agree with. John sounds like he's reporting to a drill sergeant "sir" "hey" "buddy!!!!"
It’s funny how you can be riding around accidentally brush into a 100 foot radius of some random dudes camp and start a gun fight. All seriousness I never thought I’d like a protagonist more then John but Arthur is the one
Old comment, but true. I’ll be riding around, doing nothing, and some guy points a rifle at me like: “I don’t want no company on the road.”
No one takes Marston seriously which is hidden skill set of him
Goes back to the first standoff in RDR1 between him and Bill before Bill just shoots him. Dude really should've made sure he was dead, this is the same dude who spent several days severely wounded up in the mountains when another gang member succumbed to their injuries WITH medical assistance
Rdr1 John is meant to be taken seriously though.
@@weplo1597 that's because rdr1 is set before 2 and in 1 John is much older and more skilled
@@eat457Not that much
Jokes on them, if you play rdr1, you realize that John, unlike Arthur, truly became a legend of the west, much like the other legends. He participated in much grander spectacles if the technology of videogames in 2010 could show us. He fought on both sides of mexican revolution war, with the side he was on prevailing. He took out numerous gangs singlehandedly. Imagine how that would have looked on rdr2 engine with the amount of possible npcs on screen etc. Also the fame rank, that somehow was missing in rdr2 was a very nice touch. At the beginning of the game, npc would react to or greet you passively, but at the end of the game and during the duels, a special music would play, similar to ''american venom'', and people would be like ''holy shit thats John marston''. The difference is John was mostly trying to be the ''white hat cowboy'' and his adventures apart from the new austin chapter are more like ''oddyseus journey'', in terms of how grand they are, the stuff of legends. Meanwhile Arthur and the gang did do some nasty or ''cool'' things, but nothing that compared to what John has done in RDR1 in terms of badassery.
yeah, Arthur robbed a few banks, killed a few gangsters and died of turbosomething I cannot even spell that disease. while it feels pretty realistic, we value games for something else
This is the comment I’ve been looking for. Arthur Morgan is lit but John is the goat. Everyone got attached to Arthur reeeeaal fast and for good reason but still, facts are facts.
@@ThatsWhatSheSaid-people always meatride Arthur without appreciating the real legend that is Marston
in the epilogue, the world always felt empty and unfulfilling to me
Kind of the point the game was over they only made the epilogue so people could keep playing if they wanted and too connect to rd1
and finish Micah,But I liked John and I really liked epilogue,@@xanderlaskey2753
The opposite for me. RDR2 as Arthur is so boring
@@JesseVenturaHatbro what are you on
@@crazymangoz9583 He's on his opinion. Go cope.
John is the OG. John is the reason we were interested in RDR2 in the first place.
John Marston is first protagonist.
@@Whocares158No. Red Harlow is
@@borek92no that universe is separate and not cannon
@@anci3nt_moon578 Well it wasn’t exactly specified in this thread was it? And Harlow is the first red dead protagonist so 🤷🏻♂️ but I get you
@@borek92 true man true
If you don't like me, don't control me. It's a win-win
You ok John?
@@AshwinY Yes
Let me know if you'd like me to peel you a grape
F these ppl. Stay honorable John
@@christopherjohnson1212 I will
Proceeds to be the backbone of a mexican revolution a few years later
And becomes an absolute legend in the wild west
When they made this game, it's almost like they forgot John was supposed to be smart. He doesn't use fancy words or wax poetic, even though it was implied those were habits he picked up from Dutch in his teenage years long before the events of this game. Just because he's not the main character anymore doesn't mean they had to turn him into a complete buffoon.
Didnt you forget he was only 26 years lmao?
It’s bad writing, simple as that. It’s disgusting how they absolutely (and intentionally) NERFED his character in favor of Arthur. The worst part is that 85% of the fandom don’t care or call it out because RDR2 is majority of the player-base. So they think RDR2 John is a true representation of his character.
@@supremedreams6789 his okay for me in rdr 2, for me he is more realistic in rdr 2 than rdr 1, in rdr 1 he is kinda stuck up and typical badass cowboy cliche, while rdr 2 makes him more like a human, its not that bad writing, after all the rdr 2 story its obviously he became more thoughtful, wise, and calming person, its just another OG rdr 1 fanboys always have to complain about everything
@@labelnineNot bad writing? So you mean to tell me it makes sense for John to act stupid af in 1899 to acting even more dumb and weird in 1907 but suddenly in 1911 he starts to act like how Dutch originally taught him while also being confident, witty, sarcastic, smart and not taking shit from anyone? All from working in a farm for 4 years? That type of knowledge you get from years of being taught like that and from all the death and murder you see that hardens you up. That’s not just something you act like because you suddenly woke up and felt like acting that way or because of milking cows and feeding chickens for 4 years or because your family was suddenly taken away. It would make sense for him to act like in the epilogue in 1899 and 1907 he should’ve started acting more like rdr1 John. His character was clearly retconned to make Arthur look better. Also you can’t talk about “rdr1 fanboys” like rdr2 fanboys are known for complaining and criticizing anyone who talks badly about the game or Arthur (like you’re clearly doing)
@@BeatleHarrison I like john in rdr 2 , all you fanboys are simps for badass cowboy stereotype shit like marston from red dead 1 , your guys is surely whiners , i mean they changed him for Arthur , but thats a game after all and shouldnt cry so much about it
Another reason is the narrative. It’s so hard to try to be playing outlaw when you’re constantly reminded that this particular part of the story is where you’re suppose to be DONE at being an outlaw. It just doesn’t make sense to me for John to be doing crimes when they’re laying low. Even more so if you choose to rob Pearson of all people! This in turn also affected Red Dead Online negatively, because that mode really allows you to craft your own cowboy experience freely, but the microtransaction and tedious grind really holds it back.
as arthur i was trying to be the kindest man with high honor almost at the max, never robbed anyone / stealed any coach and barely antagonized anyone ever, but as john..... discovered the "bandit" quest.......... god i'm being bad BAD.
Rockstar did Epilogue John dirty.
1)They ruined his epilogue look and ruined his animations (He looks like Arthur reskin)
2)His character is far different than his npc and rdr1 version
3)He gets belittled by everyone
4)He was meant to have more content and better voices for him.
5)Rockstar did even design his own clothes, his own body, his own hair, his own better animations for walk, run, shoot, hold gun, and more.
Tough guy. Gun slinger 🤣🤣
Excuse me?
@@Zapper-Zac nothing. I didn't say anything
😅
@@Zapper-Zac opp
Playing as John in the epilogue felt like the whole story was over. Even though he's the main protagonist of the first game, everything felt like it was the end after RDR2 when every living member of the gang went their separate ways
Let's be honest, they absolutely nerfed John on this game and massacred giving that Arthur's body structure. I mean, I love playing as him, and kinda don't understand why people want to shit on him by everything he does, it's like when Andy got his new toy Buzz and despised Woody. John can do almost everything Arthur does, but, like I said, the nerfed him a lot with the jokes, charisma and some other things; but it kinda fits his character development, from becoming a not that imponent and funny guy to the absolutely gangster he is in rdr1, still I wouldn't have nerfed him that bad and still would have kept his rdr1 essence.
I enjoy Arthur’s NPC’s interaction than John. I think the reason is, Arthur is more socialable when it comes to outside activities where John mostly stays at the camp or less interact with NPCs outside camp. Also the fact, he can’t swim is such a shame
Neither of them can swim really. They just kinda' flounder until they run out of stamina. (Tried to swim to treasure on an island in the middle of a lake as Arthur. Didn't go well.)
@@Raphie009 i think they went to much realism xD , so thats why as Arthur you can swim , but not that long
I like playing as John but I really want him to swim but I respect R* embracing the original
Rockstar did Epilogue John dirty.
1)They ruined his epilogue look and ruined his animations (He looks like Arthur reskin)
2)His character is far different than his npc and rdr1 version
3)He gets belittled by everyone
4)He was meant to have more content and better voices for him.
5)Rockstar did even design his own clothes, his own body, his own hair, his own better animations for walk, run, shoot, hold gun, and more.
What the hell is wrong with people? Why does everyone hate John and think that Arthur is an Angel and not flawed? Goddamn.
RDR1 John is a different animal. The strong, silent type
like gary cooper
The John Marston slander in these comments is actually appalling, god damned heathens.
Ofc. Rockstar ruined epilogue John alot so it is far more easy to like Arthur and belittle John
John Marston in Rdr1 is more badass thn arthur in my opinion
Same, but apparently expressing in any shape or form that you find Arthur inferior in any way is a crime. Man, what a disrespect to the OG.
@@leonecartelreborn9628 Yeah, people will skin you alive for liking John more than Arthur
No its your opinion though i like Arthur more@@2FortTourist
Imagine robbing someone at gunpoint and they just walk up and smack you and call you an idiot lol
Npc will go rough when we playing as John Marston
Halo orang keren, saya orang pesatir
@@Raul_Reborn_Arc halo psatir
@@Raul_Reborn_Arc hello?
@@AshwinY just ignore him, he just says some indonesian jokes
haha dutch colony L
But it makes more sense for Arthur to shoot people more than John.
I understand people being upset to not play with Arthur (it’s the same with RDR1 and John) but it’s like people can’t put their feelings away for story purposes.
Rockstars fault because they dulled down Johns character in RDR2 so Arthur could stand out more.
I’m not saying Arthur wasn’t beautifully written cause he was I just find it unfair that John gets so much stigma. But I am an OG fan so that may explain it
John in the epilogue is ment to be a changed man, trying to put his past behind but it eventually crept up to him and got Bureau agents holding him in chains.
@@whyareyouevenreadingmyname950 yes I know, you recapping the epilogue mate ? Hahaha
@@r3idmcread212 I didn's say anything bad. Why are you laughing?
@@whyareyouevenreadingmyname950 oh I didn’t mean any offence bro, I was just expecting something else when I started reading your comment. It’s all good don’t worry
well he becomes a better gunman then arthur
I dont think so, I'd say they are the same, but gameplay wise the shooting and dead eye feels better in rdr2 for me at least
@@sethburch9273 i can respect that and almost agree..i only say that bc john lives a little longer and in RDR1 he is mostly shooting people. RDR2 has a lot of “errands” and focuses on hand to hand a little more. :)
@@juvidisciple that's very true
I don't wanna play as John, I wanna play as Arthur
I don't wanna play as Jack, I wanna play as John.
So true
ngl i liked playing as jack.. weird ik
Rdr 3
I don't wanna play as Arthur, I wanna play as Mac or Davey Callander
Damn that bartender had the balls to walk up to an armed man slap him and walk away
John: everyone is so mean to me
💔
Tbh I enjoyed playing as john because he has funnier roasts
In no world. Lol
John's antagonizing sounds like a 3rd grade bully. Arthur's has defined old man wit.
@@mr.jameson218 not necceccarily "old man", he's only 40 I think. But he's more educated than John
@@roachdoggjr419 he’s 36
@@mr.jameson218 that's why its funnier lmao
I once spent 5 minutes antagonizing the Blackwater deputy. Apparently if lawmen tell you to move on instead of giving you a bounty, you can insult them all you want and I took advantage of that HARD.
U should play the first rdr it's worth it
I honestly like playing as John and Arthur equally. They aren't really different imo.
I think they wanted to give off that feeling since Arthur sacrificed himself to get him out
Yeah even their player models aren't that different lmaooo
@@wannabecliffburton4275 Eh, John's a lot skinnier than Arthur, but their animation are basically the same.
@@wannabecliffburton4275 I meant in gameplay but I agree, they shouldn't have neglected Johns model that way.
@@Popcorn-ch7uy Oh yeah in gameplay the only difference I can think of is swimming, dialogue, and depending on how late game the Arthur is, TB. The only real issue I do have is the model, especially since it's in the game but they had to can it because of crunch time. And John's insults aren't as good as Arthur's or RDR1 John's.
John is the face of Red Dead
Was, now arthur took the lead
@@Outlaw1856-8but you cant change the fact that John started the redemption
I laughed so hard when the lady jaw punched him and as he held his mouth in surprise she walked away.
0:26 sounds like the pigeons are laughing 😂😂😂
The disrespect that John gets by rdr community is unbelievable, that tells you that most of them didn't play the first one
As someone who has played both games, I prefer Arthur.
I prefer Arthur, but you're totally right. John don't get no respect.
for me it's the fact that a grown-ass man can't be bothered to learn how to swim.
It’s a nod to the fact that there was no swimming animation coded into rdr1 so they used that to have him renowned for not knowing how to swim and remember he isn’t real lol
@@cym2605 Nobody could swim in that game, could they? Thus, there was no reason to single him out, and to punish you for finishing the game by giving you a character that could never be as capable as the one you'd been playing the whole game was just crap.
@@ronarprefect7709 swimming in this game is pointless anyways. Arthur can swim for like 45 seconds so I don’t know why you’d swim especially when it’s better to travel through small bodies of water on horseback
@@Outrigger200 To go from swimming 45 seconds to not at all is a great loss. I have swam to many places that you could not get to on a horse.
The fact that people complain about john not being able to swim is so dumb
Personally if that was me I wouldn’t take that level of disrespect
I tried the exact same thing with Arthur a couple of times and she had two reactions
1: She had a shotgun and she shot at me
2: The same thing in the video, she just hit me and go away
For me it this:
Arthur:"Howdy mister."
John:"MISTER!!!!:
Arthur Morgan what a character and what a story line, this game was phenomenal and left me speechless
That's not Marston. That's John Morgan
I still prefer John Marston.
The only complaint I have with John is that there were no side missions for him
You did them all as Arthur? You can literally do almost all of them as John.
@@pnwfisher2144 What I mean is that there are no side missions that are available for John only, like it would be better if there were side missions in New Austin that only John could access
@@Arthur_Morgan-1863. Yeah that woulda been cool. I do wish there was more to do as John overall.
@KayKo Personally I woulda preferred New Austin
both would have been nice, but yeah i'd def take New Austin over Blackwater@@Arthur_Morgan-1863.
They did John dirty in the rdr2 writing, thew newer generation who never played rdr1 dont even realize what a badass he ends up being later on (and should have been more so that way in rdr2 they made him too awkward)
I like playing as John in this game then rdr , I just never grew to the character , especially in the epilogue were he puts on his classic outfit and for some reason In the mission were you Save Johns boss , it feels like Arthur’s watching over me in the night time sky full of stars , I forgot the name of the mission
I played as a murderer at the beginning with Arthur, become nice, play as John, instantly become a mass murderer again knowing that John wont die
Play rdr1
@@sethburch9273 I have. I meant I knew he wouldnt die in 2
John Marston is first protagonist.
I think it’s better starting a massacre with John than Arthur
I don't really know why I prefer to play as Arthur
Rdr1 John=Arthur>Rdr2 Epilogue John
John is a maniac. I was chasing a guy in Saint Denis and he had a smile on his face lmao
Lol
John in RDR1>Arthur in RDR2
People are starting to dislike me:(
I think Arthur's roasts are better than John's but least with John I don't have to worry much about honor. But the way I've done playthroughs is just bad honor all the way till after Guarma I take time to change Arthur after he finds out he has TB so I can get the better endings.
My least favorite thing about John is how it’s hard to make him look like his RDR 1 self or the 1899 version.
I think this was a short you did (specifically the van horn one), but this isn't something specific to John. I've had these interactions with Arthur as well.
I much prefer John to Arthur, but these are really reasons as they aren't specific to John.
Things like: being unable to swim, preference for Arthur in general, his walking/running animation, I consider all valid.
I've had the same interactions with Arthur so it comes off weird saying it's against John.
I always saw it as Arthur is the Artful Dodger Jack Dawkins. Funny, outgoing, sly wit, deeply flawed.
And John is Oliver Twist. Serious, self-critcal, whiny, deeply flawed.
Both make for great stories, but one make for a much better video game protagonist.
I wonder, if many of us will get our wish, and rdr3 will be the Rise of the Van der Linde gang. Maybe with an epilogue that shows us what actually happened in Blackwater...?
I just don’t like playing as him because his hair isn’t actually his hair. Same with his body and face structure.
Arthur really did steal the show in this game. In a way, it's kinda genius. They introduce him, give him this great deep story, make you relate to him and see his good sides and his bad, then they take him away from you at the end and force you to play as John. It makes you miss Arthur, like someone you actually know died. Solidifying him as a legend in your mind that can't be felt again (unless you start a new game of course lol).
But by doing that, I think that's the secret touch that makes Arthur such a beloved character. You only get him for a short window of time. The entire main game, yes, but once that's beat, the epilog is pretty much just any time you wanna pick up the game and play it again after beating it. And every time you do, dear Arthur won't be there 😢 it's just not the same 💔 it's the brilliant icing on the cake that shoves him right in to a hall of fame in your mind. Otherwise, he'd still be a great character, but you would be able to play as him whenever. Almost taking him for granted in a way. What a way to make a legendary character!
Hell I even started over a new game just BECAUSE I missed Arthur. I wouldn't have done that if they left him alive in the end to freely play as. God damn Rockstar you really did nail it with this game and character!
''John Morgan'' is the main reason I don't like playing as ''John'' in RDR2 its not John.... its Arthurs Body / beard / hair. ( but black ) with Johns Marston's face & voice. Don't care for John in RDR2. i have beaten the game 6 times over now and every time I kill Micah i just do a new save to play as Arthur again.
Give me 15 mins with my semi auto shotgun I can clear the town out
I got extremely angry after Arthur died I burned that stupid replacement horse alive "Rachael" because I lost my Standardbred "Pallas" that stuck with me through the whole game. I shot up every town I went to, shot Micah in the balls, took the bad option everywhere I went cause I was playing as John. When at the beginning of the game I was Angry I WASN'T playing as John lol
I lost my beloved Arabian Mary, obviously named after her.
Why burn the horse
Ur messed up. Why the heck would you burn Rachel.
@@pnwfisher2144 Rockstar thinks they can replace my Horse that stuck with me for 80+ hours.
@@WalrusWinking No they don’t. You can get back the horse you had you’ll just have to rebond with it.
RDR: I want to play as John Marston
RDR2: I want to play as Arthur Morgan
my first day as john went terrible my horse died and i almost died from getting shot when i had no weapons
If you played rd1 years ago you’d get it I’ll never forget when uncle goes down and your trying to avenge him only for the inevitable to happen
Everybody is mocking Rip Van Winkle.
We're gonna get RDR 3 which goes further back with Dutch or Hosea and the greet is just going to be "Well hi diddly do, feller!"
im almost 39 and i played a LOT of games and yet this story.... wish i played the first one too :D and boy did i think san andreas and gta v had a good story :D
So… what is the reason?
After RDR2's storymode, and how badly they screwed up John's face in this game... If I wanna play as John Marston I just turn on my Ps3 man.
you have your own ps3 man? im thinking about owning one too but idk the ethics.
@@Orchid.Mantispede My best advice: buy the Ps3 Slim. It has Ps2 compatibility! I have the Super Slim so I can't play Ps2 games. It is worth it, believe me!
More John's face. His anims, his clothes, his hair ,his hair color, his head shape, his body.
I don't like John as much because his dialogue is so much less friendly and charismatic than Arthur's. Like I appreciate how they're diffirent personalities show but like, John feels like he doesn't want to greet anyone and he's forcing himself to do it, Arthur feels like he's having an amazing day and wants to share that feeling with the world
I love RDR 1 John Marston , such a hero and a badass
RDR 2 John Marston is a bitch tbh , John's my favorite character in all of Red Dead... but I can't stand RDR 2 John...
John Marston is Da GOAT
0:25 You dare do THAT?! Lol
I prefer John.
Love Johnny. Awesome character
Arthur was great, but i always felt they did John dirty in this game, speaking as a veteran of the first game.
My reasons do not like playing as John :
- he can’t swim
- he can’t draw
- he is less funny than Arthur
If arthur is more intimidating and imposing I bet mac callendar makes both Arthur and john look like school boys.
Don’t think so
@@ha1up
We dont know enough about mac callendar let alone davey other than
1 they are both of Scottish origin
2 prone to violence
3 mac was a brawler
4 davey was an alcoholic
5 mac beat up sailors
6 davey got shot in his stomach/ right abdomen.
7 the pinkertons and andrew milton finished off mac callendar
They both were probably middle aged
Beta Arthur is more menacing though. He tortures a man for fun in one of cut content audio. Also he yells and gets angry at camp for sitting around during chp1. He was supposed to be really angry enforcer of this gang.
If you want have fun playing as John then I recommend not finishing storylines as Arthur and letting John wrap them up in his honor. Its cool to have John fill in the pages of the journal Arthur wasnt able too. Also Buell in the epilogue is a must.
Buell dying as Arthur's main horse is canon.
Same thing for me. Playing as Marston feels like a total anti-climax after spending the bulk of the game as Arthur Morgan. The family man persona makes for a very boring character.
Yet John is also a family man in rdr1 and doesn’t ruin the game for anyone lol
Rockstar did Epilogue John dirty.
1)They ruined his epilogue look and ruined his animations (He looks like Arthur reskin)
2)His character is far different than his npc and rdr1 version
3)He gets belittled by everyone
4)He was meant to have more content and better voices for him.
5)Rockstar did even design his own clothes, his own body, his own hair, his own better animations for walk, run, shoot, hold gun, and more.
Rockstar does this . Even in Rdr1 , after spending hours as John Marston, he is killed by Edgar Ross and we've to play as Jack Marston to avenge his death
Yes but how do I even do that? How do i play as john marson?
This is like me in the real life...
Idk about yall but my john is literally the skinner brothers alike, honor doenst matter if u play with john that's why
Ya missed arther the second he died… like marston as a friend
This is the reason why i love playing as john
It was the you ass in the beginning for me 😂😂😂
How can you play as JHON is rd2?
Fact: Some of the comments can be the next video's title lol
Once you play as john your gonna be wanted dead or alive in blackwater again
Okay so I'm only thru chapter 2 and my Arthur is so evil. When I get to John I want to make him an angel.
it will be the other way around
Jeez what a way to ruin a playthrough💀💀
@@roachdoggjr419 how?
@@thepatriarchy819 Arthur's character is BUILT around redemption, not pure evil
@@roachdoggjr419 idk Arthur and the whole rest of the gang seem like pieces of shit and their all criminals I believe everything that happend is justice apon them.