Excess 12 Catamaran Review 2019 | Our Search For The Perfect Catamaran.
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- The Excess 12 is the smallest Catatmaran in the Beneteau ECS range. The cruising catamrans are in direct competition withe the likes of Lagoon, Fountaine Pajot and Leopard. However is this the perfect catamaran for us?
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Great video. Super informative. Other than Neal, have you had any responses from manufacturers to your reviews?
We’ve had really lovely feedback from Seawind, Outremer, Leopard and Lagoon. I guess it’s easy to respond when the reviews are positive.
One thing we keep getting picked up on is that we are being unfair on “charter” boats. As we mention in every video, we are looking for a liveaboard. If the boat isn’t suited to being a liveaboard, for our needs, we mention it. We also have the advantage of not being brokers. We have no agenda and no bias. We also try to further eliminate the bias by using averages from your votes to make our “Top 10”
Chuck Price Huh?! You having a hemorrhoid flare up today?
@@chuckprice9500 Now here's a guy who obviously has a copy of _How to Win Friends and Influence People_ on his desk. Carnegie came to you for advice, yeah? ROTFLMAO
@@chuckprice9500 Ok maybe I am a little slow, but since you didn't watch (your words) just how are you informed enough to make any comment?
@@chuckprice9500 0/10 for grammar. 0/10 for style. 0/10 for attitude. 1/10 for spelling your name correctly which gives you a combined score of 1/40.
Thanks. You are the only reviewers who actually criticize boats rather than chatting them up like the owner is holding the camera for you. It is so helpful. Your fair assessments both - pro & con - provide insights that help viewers understand how one should look at every boat, not just the one y'all happen to be on.
We try to be fair and objective when we are assessing a boat. Bear in mind it is simply our opinion. However, we are not brokers with a potentially hidden agenda, so we are freer to point out things we think could be improved upon.
In summary: The Excess Cat is a nice boat to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there. 💨⛵️. Thanks guys for the thorough review yet once again!
Thanks for the comment Troy!
This is what happens when a monohull builder starts trying to build catamarans. I know Bavaria build Nautitech, but they bought out a company that already had expertise in that area. It seems to me that Beneteau made a corporate decision that they had to get into this market. They then realised that they didn't have the expertise and to design from scratch would take years and money. So instead, they bought the hull in. Lagoon being sensible charged them a premium for that which then left Beneteau not much money to fit out the boat, and this now shows in the interior. Great review again Nick and Terysa... looking forward to your Antares review.
Thanks mate.
Darker hair. I like it!! Makes your eyes stand out! Just saying by6 the way. Young man, you are curt and straightforward. Some or many people do not like this. I do Nick. People grumble but they keep looking at your videos! Good job you two!!!!THANK YOU BOTH! For bringing us along on your journey!!!!!!
Having just spent time in Japan, I have a new appreciation for Terysa's obsession with ventilation. - Which might be one thing this boat has going for it.
Disk0 I’m telling you, it’s important! 😆
A couplle thoughts.
Lagoon and Beneteau are owned by the same company. Kind of like GM ownes Chevorlet and Buick, ect...
Lagoon started out as part of Jeanneau. Then went to thier own Brand in 1999- 2000.
My thoughts are that with it being a charter target market. They wanted to make the cockpit as large as possiable thus putting the helm outboard. Also charter boats are only sailed or driven a few hours a day so that isnt a big deal being exposed for hours at a time or in a nasty sea at night.
I get that totally. However they make an owners version too
Lagoon is part of the Beneteau group, hence the economy of using the hull from that range
life boat access???? what life boat access.... oh you mean the one that would be completely blocked by your dinghy and when there is no dinghy there it's just out in the middle of nowhere and you have to lean way over the rear launder to heave it out hoping it doesn't pull you over with it. that life boat access. love the video guys and love your channel, fully support what you guys are doing and thank you sooo very much for sharing your wonderful journey with us. this cat is a 100% no go for me mad my family's needs!!!!
Thanks mate
@@sailingrubyrose good morning to you and good night to me lol
Just took a look at the excess 12 at Valencia boat show. Agreed. Plus; Haven’t found any!! storage in the pantry except two small overhead cupboards.
I know this is old, however.... My plan in the next two years is to buy the best used multihull I can find, and then pray that I can forget your review of that model, and never ever watch it again. You're a great team, scathing about pointlessly dumb things. Wait, that didn't sound right. What I mean is you point out the dumb things the boat company has done for no good reason. I hope they're watching.
I would hate to be sailing around my bargain cat with your list of short comings rattling in a loop through my head. It would be impossible to forget because I'm sure you are absolutely right. Maybe some day you can do a video "List of great used cats, but... here's what's wrong about each of them." That would be a great watch. Again, thank you
I was really anticipating something special from Beneteau when they announced these. But, I was also disappointed when I went on board. One dealer told me that Beneteau made these for their dealer network so they could stem the sales losses to competing catamaran sales. This seems the best explanation for the end result to me. SK in the UK.
Interesting that they threw it out soley to fill a gap.
As I want at least 4 cabin this layout is VERY refreshing and nice because as an owner I can have my masters hull with full bathroom but have also three other cabins in the other hull. Though I would have deleted one bathroom.
Was excited to see a review of a catamaran that I personally hadn't heard of, and built by Beneteau with a good reputation in the monohull world. Too bad it really doesn't seem to offer anything particularly exciting for a boat you'd want to own.
As to the outboard helms, I can see those being exciting. Even if the boat isn't a racer by catamaran standards, off the wind it's still a fast boat if you compare to a monohull. Think about it as a really wide monohull instead of a catamaran and suddenly some of the choices make more sense. Even at slower speeds, getting outboard with the good sight lines and the water right there next to you makes everything _feel_ more exciting, even if it might not be. On a charter boat or a weekender, I bet they'll actually be rather fun to have.
Overall I think you're right on - a boat for the charter market and not what you're looking for.
The only good reviews I hear on the beneteau monohulls are from coastal cruisers that have never sailed an ocean or owned a different sailboat. We looked a some new ones at Annapolis a couple years ago. The tankage was horrible. Build quality bad. No handholds. Have you noticed that a lot of the sailing channels who crossed a ocean with one no longer own one. They are made cheap to sale cheap to the 95% of people who never leave the lake or bay.
Thank you for showing just how hard it would be to get on top of the cabin... Highlight of the video.. 😉👍🔥
Well, at least stuff isn't falling off the cabin walls and bulkheads.
Your review of the Seawind 1600 gives it an astronomical 42 out of 50. But, we're talking about a 50' yacht versus a 38' yacht. I'm sure that a Seawind 1260 will be at Annapolis, and I would be interested in seeing how that compares to the production cats like Lagoon, Nautitech, Excess and such. It might be a little bit more money, fully spec'd for bluewater cruising, but it would be money well spent.
Really wish I could support you on Patreon, but right now, just not possible. Maybe one day.
Mate, your comments are more than enough for us.
@@sailingrubyrose Thank you, Nick.
The unit shown in Cannes was an owner’s version, way better refined. After seeing it in Cannes, the unit in Southampton felt like a prototype, which I think this boat was.
It is faster than a Lagoon 40 because the boom is much lower and sail area (optionally) bigger. But yes in the end it’s just a lightly modified Lagoon 40.
Also just to remind you that Excess and Lagoon are one company, both brands belong to Beneteau. This boat is made by Lagoon on a practical level, if you spoke to people from Excess they also work for Lagoon. This is just Lagoon’s attempt to compete with Nautitech (and failing miserably at it).
Thanks for your great videos.
According to our information, the sail area is identical between the lagoon 40 and the excess12. We put both specs in the video. Do they have an option for a different mast?
Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose yes, they mention it in the specs and the brochure and on their website, they call it pulse line. And the unit in Cannes had this pulse line rig, which comes as part of a sportier package. Honestly the unit in Cannes was significantly better, the one in Southampton was probably just an early prototype, there were many bits missing! And the UK dealer is useless.
In the end, the Nautitechs are way better, no doubt.
Looking forward to the Antares review!!
We're looking forward to seeing it!
Love your review series! Thanks for helping all of us narrowing our search. My favorite line - Teresa "I can stand" Not sure it helps most of us!
Ha! True 😊
Excellent RANT on the "no love" Galley. Put some love in your work. Love it!!!!
"It's like putting a spoiler on a bathtub" LOL!! 🤣🤣
yep. i laughed out loud with that. lol 😂👏👏
I spit up my morning coffee I laughed so hard when he said that.
It reminds me of the spoilers I saw on buses in El Salvador! Ahh, sweet memories ^_^
Lagoon is owned by Beneteau Group. It sounds like Beneteau designed the Excess to not compete with the Lagoon 40, but to appeal to a different mix of small catamaran shoppers. I like the Lagoons better personally.
As always, a great video. We are also looking for our next catamaran (currently in a PDQ36). You all are looking at cats WAY outside our price range, but we are really learning a lot from what you look at on each boat. Looks like we are crossing the Beneteau right off our list of 'boats to see,' so thanks for that! Are in love with the seawinds (the 1260s); maybe if we hit the lottery!
We are seeing a 1260 soon
Friends of mine run a charter company from a Beneteau 52, that boat is immaculate.
Oh we have seen some amazing Beneteau monohulls. Friends of ours had a 44 (I think) beautiful inside and out.
Well said, I totally dont understand where they were going with this boat! I wouldn’t even bother looking at it, for me its its an epic fail on the helms alone.
Did you leave a review score mate?
Toatally agree with your review on this one. I think you were a little generous with your scoring on fit and finish. We’re looking at the lagoon 40 and even more so now! Thanks guys you always provide excellent reviews.
A pleasure mate
A pity they don't take a leaf out of Toyota's way and make the equivalent of a Lexus with the Lagoon 42 for private owners.
I hope you do a video of the St Francis 50 mkii. Looks like it would be a great fit for you and I am interested in your thoughts.
Honey we can't find a boat we really like, so let just build one... These reviews are best on mark we never knew there were so many aspects right down to making the bed to safety next to a stove top.... Carry-on
let the catamaran review season begin.
I was just excited that you used inches and not CM! Lol! But ya I didn’t expect quality from that company. I’ve sailed many days on one of their monohulls.
Maybe the helms are there to give the cockpit more space. It's a charter boat targeted at a young clientel. They want space for entertaining over other considerations.
True. And the cockpit is lovely and spacious.
That's what my husband thinks, as well-he says if you're hardly ever going to use the helms, de-prioritize them (aka charter boats).
ARRRGH!!!...Thar be me favorite sailors on the briny deep....Ole Blackbeard would be a'watchin if'nn he not be in Davy Jone's locker....fine video mate, fine video indeed!
I wasn't aware that Lagoon and Beneteau were under the same flag. It takes some time to get your head around that thought. Under either brand name they will sell a lot of these boats just on affordability alone. Most boat owners drool over the luxury brands but buy boats like these because that's what they can afford. Compared to some other boats on your list you could buy three of these.
oddly enough im actually ok with cheap materials executed well. both my wifey and i are simple people and were actually a bit put off by opulence since that isnt how we were raised were just not used to it. helm position is a non-starter for me. interesting note is that of all the cats you've reviewed this one actually looks like the easiest to refit; a lot of that stuff looks like its off the shelf from a hardware store.
Still like the X50 the best. Just need to hit the lottery. Look forward to the day you review one.
I think what they are aiming at is charter companies, not individuals. Beneteau is one of the largest sailing yacht manufacturers and, as such, can discount large orders plus customize on said large orders. I also think that outboard helm stations are done on charters to separate the 'sailors' from everyone else.... In this case, you are def. not the target market and neither is anyone watching this (unless you are a buyer for a charter company....).
Agreed 100%...... although they do an owners version too
Highly informative & in-depth review ...looking forward to the Balance Catamaran... thanks.
Wow! Theresa your hair looks fab. Gorgeous gal xxx
Heh, thanks Annette 😊
Yay! Love watching the reviews as you look for your new boat. Any news on the sale of Ruby Rose? I cant wait to see you choose the new boat and move in. So exciting and looking forward to more reviews.
Cheers mate. Brexit is putting a cramp on selling RR as she’s Uk flagged. We’re not in any great rush though. It will all work out
Hi guys - love your videos, especially the catamaran reviews. Are you planning on trialing or reviewing any catamarans with electric sail drives? One or two manufacturers have one available in their ranges and FP are at prototype stage. It must the the future of liveaboard sailing boats?
I would think the outboard helms would be a positive for the increased living space. Love your opinions, I hope these manufactures take this feedback seriously.
Oh they definitely free up cockpit space
I agree about the fitment and finish of the boat. What is the dent under the port light at the 12:19 mark? just looks flimsy when you are seeing these types of things and chips on a factory new craft. Nice review once again!
Loved this bit "They've crammed a lot of volume in here".
It “is” a Lagoon 40 thru and thru. Every aspect of the interior is exactly the same, including the grab rail that Terysa pointed out going down in the owners hull. And the Excess 15 is a carbon copy of the Lagoon 50.
Lagoon is part of Beneteau group so no surprising its a knock off to offer a sportier version
Probably your best review so far guys. Some really good points made. But It's still a cat 🤣Think what else you could get monohull for that money, not lose the vat when you leave the dock, and hold its price for years to come...... Sail safe. Ant, Cid and the pooch crew xx
We had a look at the Excess 11 at the Southampton Boat Show last week, and whilst space was good overall, especially the master cabin with it’s huge bed. We found that storage was a little lacking and as you found, the fit and finish felt like Ikea to say the least. Reckon you’d be repairing and replacing it all after a year or two. They also confirmed the Hull was brand new on the 11 so it may well be a different sailing experience, whereas the Excess 12 and 15 are indeed Lagoon mounds. Good to see though, but I’d really want a better spec’d interior for that cash, or at the very least one that looked harder wearing.
Loving your reviews, thanks for taking the time! I'm looking forward to your reviews on the Majestic and St. Francis. You guys share a bit more info than Craig over on Sailing Off Duty though I do love his video tours.
Kitiala we have different styles and both are valuable!! I think cruising off duty does a brilliant job. Definitely worth watching both our reviews.
@@sailingrubyrose Couldn't agree more, everyone should definitely watch both!
Thanks for the great in-depth reviews with debate. Any chance of a Seawind 1260? I know you have done the 1600 but the smaller one is quite a bit cheaper than the more ultra performance sister.
We are seeing it next week in Annapolis
@@sailingrubyrose Also looking forward to seeing the 1260 review
Man, that galley is two times smaller than in our old 36ft/11mts cat! But hey, how many owners of these boats will ever cook a decent meal? :-) Agree with you about those helm stations. Nice for sunny, light weather sailing, but not for year round cruisers.
Happy greetingz, Wim
Cheers mate
Good job on the review, but we don’t care for the boat especially after visiting the Antares today at the Annapolis Boat Show.
Another great review. You guys are awesome. I've seen other videos on this boat and I've never really like them. I don't like the design and layout. And the helms, in my humble opinion, is stupid. I don't like the "tent" cover, or the foldable seat, or.... all of it really. After this informative review, now I like it even less hahah. My wife and I love your channel.
I think the sole reason for the outboard helms was for the gain in outdoor cockpit area.
“final kick in the ass”
😂😂😂🤣🤣👏👏👏
Love the honesty, thanks for posting!
Great review
Particularly dislike sharp corners on a boat in house or office these are hazards waiting to hurt you!!! Rounded corners maybe like a lot of Art Deco stuff are inherently safe and attractive.
Fantastic format embodied in your review
Thanks
Nick is next for a signal little color. Cooking with Salt and pepper. Great Video as always!! This one does look sleek...
Slurms MacKenzie would be partying hard on that Slugoon.
Thanks for sharing your travels and your thoughts on the Cats.
The mind boggles. What must have that meeting been like at Beneteau group HQ where they all sat around and said let's go spend a crap ton of money creating a new brand to what end? "New Coke" anyone? When EXS was first announced I was hopeful that they were going upmarket as I think Lagoon is more in line with Beneteau, so was hoping for a Jeanneau or better cat.
Us too. We had high hopes for this.
Hi Nick & Terysa, thanks for the video and the serie of cat reviews, great stuff.
It was announced that FP has introduced some new finishes to their cats. Do you have any chance to re-visit previously filmed models (i.e. Astrea may be) and to compare if quality is improved over joinery and in the engine bay?
I don’t think we’ll revisit any, but we’re definitely open to reviewing alternative models in the line up. We’ll see how we go at the show. Thanks for the info!
Perhaps a similar review of Ruby Rose would provide some context to your critique.
That’s a good idea mate
There is a ladder that is stored underneath the cabin top to get on top the cabin.
Love your comparison process, it is very educational
Thanks a bunch
Well, you confirmed my thoughts. With all the hype this boat got, it is just my opinion, this boat is a flopp! Beneteau is going to really up their game if they are going to compete in this market. Thanks for sharing.
I have a small Beneteau monohull. Can confirm basic, unloved interior
Isn't the life raft position blocked by a dinghy and especially hard to reach if the back of the catamaran is deeper in the water in an emergency situation? (like a flood in the engine compartment)
As usual, a brilliant review!
Helm position - On the Outremer et al it makes sense. But, on this ?!?!?!?!? The 'spoiler on a bathtub' comment says it all.
I would love to hear the senior management rationale for this clusterf%&k! Poor design choices, poor build quality, cheap components ... AND competing in a crowded market with no defining USP. It's almost like they gave all the marketing and management trainees/interns ( and non sailors ) free reign to ruin their business.
In comparison to FP and Lagoon I can't see the viewers review marks being very favorable. Even the Neal Trimaran stands a chance of being rated higher !!
it wouldn't stand up to the wear and tear of charters and one would think a company of that sized with umpteen designers could do allot better - would never buy one - maybe a charter for a week - but if i could get a Lagoon on charter i would take that.
See you two in Annapolis next week! We are looking pretty hard at sub 45ft catamarans. One realization I am coming to is that I am falling back in love with mono hull designs. My wife is sold on cats (thanks Nikki and Jason Wynn), so one thing I want to accomplish at Annapolis is showing her what $500k usd gets in a cat vs a mono. In your reviews thus far, have you felt that catamarans have a much more “caravan” or cheap feel to them? I think a budget of $300-$500k would get you a beautiful monohull but a rather disappointing cat.
Agree 100% mate
As a GWTW's fan and now catamaran owner, my husband tried the same argument on me. I can tell you it's not about "what you get for the price" for me, it's about the lifestyle. I felt like going down into a coffin on every expensive monohull we went on, and the pitching and rolling was a no bueno for me. The movement of the cat and feeling like I'm skating across the ocean instead of sitting in it were why I pushed us to not get half a boat. ;)
You would think Beneteau would throw their best quality work at their first Cat offering.... Thinking you are correct in assuming that this being a Beneteau, the quality should have been thru the roof. Obviously they don't think of Cats the same way they do about Monohulls....
about the stanchions - I think I know why they are recessed. I believe you showed a recessed "gutter" about 4" wide. I believe that could be a channel for water drainage possibly going to a storage tank. There was even a channel around one of the hatches going to the outer gutter. The stanchions would have less chances of water damage to the bases by not sitting in that channel and having water pooled around it.
It may be the case my friend.
I think the maverick 440 would be a contender against the Seawind.
You cups be right here mate
Funny that "Excess" is the absolute last thing you'll find on this boat.
Maybe it's for people with Excess money?
True that my friend
You cannot measure with the same level charter boats than Owner ones. And sometimes i believe that your opinion its a little biased and capricious. Although this boat seems to be on the cheap side and is not value for the money, your assessment and consideration not only in this boat but in others too, are not enough fair.
Anyway i like this series of Catamarans sort of comparison.
It will be interesting too, if you do a series of 45 ft monohull comparison of production brands.
I realise that it can be seen as bias. It is all part of the human condition.
For this reason the final scores and ratings are taken as the averages of your voting scores. It is the best way we could think to remove bias. Did you vote? 😀
@@sailingrubyrose thanks for not get in anger with my comment. Of all the Cats you've reviewed, i would choose the nautitech 46 or the lagoon 42. (Its not in the list but the new lagoon 46 is the ideal size).
Lagoon all the way
Outremer pretty stunning you’ll find ❤️
It was the accounts dept designed it.
Very good point
Looking fwd to the Antares.
Coming soon my friend
This feels like the automotive equivalent of General Motors building a new Chevy from a Cadillac platform and then asking more money for it. What’s the point?
Good analogy my friend
Hi guys. Enjoying your work, thanks.
Great video, and yes agree with John looks like a cheapy caravan interior and for all that money , not good, couldnt understand anyone buying this apart from a charter company getting a special deal
Good looking boat with a box store, or an Ikeel finish
please do the seawind 1260
We definitely will! We're lucky enough to have also scheduled a test sail at Annapolis, so if the weather cooperates we'll also have that to share 😊
p.s. I've come to the conclusion you (Nick) will find even more enjoyment entertaining fellow sailors than Terysa in your new 50X cat.....
Thanks for the excellent review guys. When first talked about this line was talked of as some sporty game changer and yet the reality is much different it would appear. A well known RUclips broker - and seemingly nice chap - speaks of them as cruiser/liveaboards. I guess this is because his firm has the onerous job of selling them. Neither fish nor fowl for me and a major faux pas from the world's biggest cat maker. Odd.
Excess catamarans are just not charter boats. Where did you get that idea from? Built to a budget and boats that sail really well. The power from the mainsail is phenomenal compared to the Lagoon 40 and 42. It absolutely is a performance cruiser compared to Lagoons.
I don't get why they are saying the performance is the same as the Lagoon 40. The Excess 12 should preform better, it has more sail area and is lighter. The boom is lower for one thing.
I might be wrong but I think it's Beneteau's first catamaran product. Maybe they will make improvements?
Hopefully they will
"Blue"...34 foot if I recall....
A catamaran designed more like a caravan than a sailing boat. It's not really set up for cruising distances or in interesting weather. Great for summer holidays not so much for the north sea.
No, but I would assume most catamaran owners don't intend to do the north sea (I know we certainly don't!). We don't have a problem with the concept of a catamaran that focuses more on interior volume and less on performance. But if that's what you want, then you have a lot of options, and we're not sure that at this time Excess are doing enough to compete in that market. Hopefully they'll improve at some point!
Thanks for the review, now I don't have to go look at this boat in Annapolis this weekend. I have the feeling that the Excess people are not going to like this video.
Hi guys I was wondering if you are doing a review on the Leopard 40? As this has no forward facing cockpit you didn’t t like on the 45.
We’ll see if we can get one done sometime
To be honest, I prefer the voice over with panoramic views of the space you are discussing, as opposed to watching you sit and talk to the camera. Unless of course, you are illustrating head room or seating position. I am not implying either of you are unpleasant to look at, just for boat reviews I prefer as much footage of the vessel as possible. Just my opinion.
It’s a fair point mate. The reason we started doing the talking on the boat was because we found that our thoughts on the day, taken from within the boat were a good counterpoint to our views taken after reviewing the footage at home.
Often the “wow factor” or disappointment is easier to convey on the day, rather than in edit.
We felt that in this case it was better for the viewers to get a better feel for our reactions. We will however try to get more walkthrough footage in.
@@sailingrubyrose Thank you for taking it in the spirit it was intended. Love your vid adventures and and looking forward to see your next boat. Cheers from flyover America!
I don’t get the point in the xs series of boats. Why build the same thing, with minor changes and a new name. When I first heard about it. I was really excited thinking it was going to be a performance cat. Even if all they did was a foam core and a larger rig. But they didn’t do anything but add a different option to an existing boat. You’re basically paying almost $50k US more for an extra helm station.
Don't understand why nav tables face to the side. When I'm actually navigating or looking at instruments, I find it important to be situated (seated) towards the front of the boat for direction orientation. Its a simplicity thing. When tired, my mind doesn't want to mentally adjust for a 90 degree sitting position. How can sitting sideways be a natural position when moving forward? Like trying to drive a car while sitting on the center console pointed to the side window! :-) And if you want to do a horizon check, you have to stand and turn completely around instead of just standing and looking port and starboard. Seems silly to me.
It’s a fair pint and we don’t get it either. After a few weeks of that you’ll need a chiropractor
Agree with you. Could have done so much more.
like the few diesel duck videos I find though they don't seem at all like what you two are looking for - what is the difference between a sail assisted trawler vs sail trawler vs a sailboat/cat? Also, advantages and disadvantages of steel hull w/ aluminum sub structure vs fiberglass or even carbon fiber?
Hi like your videos very much how about a Lagoon 50 for one of the next films? Thanks
As all others nicely presented , like your point system . Wonder , did you view the Alubat ?
When it comes out we will look at it
@@sailingrubyrose Cool , like their helm position solution
www.alubat.com/ovnicat-48
@@PaulusPHM that helm position is the same as the Lagoon 380 or the mid 00's Leopard 43's.
Great review, as always.
Cheers mate
Cool