+Eddie Mo most of the hostile people are just clowns that do archery and suck or cant even get there skill to 5% of what lars is at and then they do what most saps do is hate or lie.
Photography Raptor Yeah, Lars said that himself. It’s either a record of a very lucky moment, or an exaggerated account of a man picking an arrow from the ground
I always thought shooting on the right side was traditional for everyone. Looking at historical books, pictures, and paintings, the arrow is on the right :o it would make sense during times of war as it would be faster
In my opinion, modern archers, or people in general, tend to complicate things. If you just think of the differences between a bow shot from a horseback or a bow used while standing still and using it at longer range, it makes a lot of sense to me why there have been different approaches to maximize effectiveness of archery. I can also imagine shooting a 150 lb bow or a 50 lb bow makes a huge difference talking about rate of fire, accuracy, effective range, etc. For example ... why would a European archer walk close with a 150 pound bow while you can't maneuver your 150 pound bow as fast as a 50-70 pound compound bow ... so you need different approaches to push your weapon to its absolute limit, depending on the situation you are in. I think this western and eastern style shooting discussion is completely out of date for modern archers as it tries to compare ways of thinking from earlier times when bows were mandatory to win a war... nowadays they are "only" used for fun or competition, which is obviously a complete different mindset about how to shoot and why to choose a particular style. Let me think what you think about it. Cheers \ o
Tacx, I understand exactly what you're saying, so I think it comes down to your mindset, if you're traditionally minded or just having fun when it comes to the modern traditions of archery! I love to delve into history and get the details right as much as possible 😅 I'm an archery member and shoot modern Olympic Target style, but I do love to play with history. About to start shooting longbow and will be trying both modern and old techniques from tapestries, writings and paintings as much as possible! ✌️
So Open minded his intellect fell and went splat along with any actual knowledge of this topic as he is still caught up in the misconceptions that has plagued the world for too long such as his beliefs around paradox simply are not true, unbeknownst to him an archer can use any drawing or locking method on either side of the bow....notice i said archer and not neophyte.
@@jareth7456 So true. But according to him, his brain wouldn't go splat because it didn't fall out of his head the right way and it was in the east end of the parking lot.
I am confused here. we call "western" shooting on the left side, "eastern" on the right..... Then why is there a mountain of evidence showing English and central europeans firing right sided throughout history? Just because modern sport archers don't prefer it, does not make it "eastern". I am learning to shoot right side on my traditional longbow and I find it HEAPS easier, faster, and more accurate, and YES it can be done with a split finger grip. Great video and points BTW....
There are some confusion about this. It's not much of shooting from right side, more of mediterranean draw from right side. It's a bit uncovensional and tricky. It can be done with some adjustments. Slavic/partian draw (Index finger on the side of the arrow and middle and ring finger under it) is somehow better for shooting from the right side and there are informations about this in Arab archery and Saracon archery.
Yes the three finger left side method is largely western because the western Europeans and Americans use it and you'll almost never see it in the Eastern European Eurasia, asia or especially the middle east . Lajos Kassai is a rare exception likely because he used to be an Olympic target competitor and lost the tip of his thumb as a child. The work and achievements of people like Murat Ozveri, Mihai cozmei and Lars andersen and our beloved Armin Hirmer are and have disproven many misconceptions while stirring the popularity of archery especially Eastern archery to heights never before seen in popular culture as the dynamic martial art it was in the distant past rather than the watered down and static traditionalist Mediterranean boring twang 1930's crap that had hitherto been associated with the bow and arrow.
This is actually false. The archers paradox is completely unaffected by the grip you use. There is a channel that tested this with a trigger release which imparts no torque on the string but yet in his slow mo footage it still wobbled in flight. What changed the wobble to fly straight is simple . You tilt thr arrow to point at the target. Imagine a cross bow. The arms are canted slightly up so that the string doesn’t rub into the sled and take away a portion of the force. Instead the canted angle keeps the sting straight along the sled. The same can be done with a bow however and this is very important. Canting the bow when shooting on the left side of the bow will make the string slap your arm. A lot of people get around this by bending the bow arm slightly but that is stressful to the ligaments in the elbow and shortens your draw. It’s best to shoot on the right side and can’t the bow outward so that the arrow flys straight. This allows your elbow in the drawing arm to pull back straight and not impart any torque on the string. Without the slight change in angle you’ll lose the form in your drawing arm and it with torque the string slightly causing the arrow to fall off. The safest way to fire a bow for the user is to shoot on the right. This is because the string is away from your body and your structure in your arms and back is more strong opening outward.
There is no correct or incorrect side of shooting arrows. Both side work. There is no single correct way to shoot either. There are different style of shooting bow all over the world and every style work in their own way. And the arrow bends with trigger release, but bends less because fingers doesn't affect the arrow. It still bends 'cause the arrow has to clear out the riser and rest anyway and also because of inertia.
You're both correct, but the OP does have a very significant point of bringing up the way you use your muscles. When you shoot on the right side and release while moving the bow left and outwards to clear the way of the arrow from the body (khatra), you also open out your chest and release back tension in a much more natural way. That being said, you can also do this with a very small amount of added difficulty when shooting in the left side of the bow. This way, you also get to aim closer to the arrow, if you prefer to shoot like that. I would definitely advocate shooting both ways. If you want to become a master of the art, you must know it well, and if you don't shoot all the methods then you will never know archery properly! But anyhow, there are many more grip styles which have the fingers and thumb held differently and arrows on different sides of the bow. As Armin Hirmer says: there is no right or wrong way. You try whatever you want to and go with what you prefer. What matters is that you hit your intended target, and that is all.
@@greenhoodedvigilante458 both work when you are not in war, but try left side in war - you will be at leasst 3 times slower and that is difference between death and life. No one sane would use left side on the battlefield.
@@kvarnerinfoTV Who told you that? It's just regional differect. Different region shot from different side, whether it's war or not. Can you show any proof that everyone in war shot from left side?
@@greenhoodedvigilante458 Medieval depictions, al old pictures and paintings represents western archers with right side arrows. And andother thing - logic, shooting 3-5 times faster is battle winner. Left side shooting is terribly slow compared to right side shooting. Try it yourself when you buy medieval bow - you will shoot at least 3 arrows from right side while you shoot one from left side. When you get better you would be ablet to outshood left sider maybe even 5 to one. 2:1 is battle winner, 3 to 1 is mayhem. Why would enyone coomit suicide by slow shooting on the battle field. Left side is modern technique, right side is old battlfield technique. www.bow-international.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2019/05/BOW133.Historical.01-662x1024.jpg bshistorian.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/luttrell-archers.jpg qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8ba582a662e1ef8aeced555f8d4bbcaf www.aemma.org/images/training/archery_2.jpg i.pinimg.com/564x/6c/6e/73/6c6e73bb7578fff306049937cb193ac2.jpg Just imagine using left side in the heat of the battle, losing all that time....being exposed and slow.
I was living under a rock and didnt hear about Lars Anderson until I saw your video several weeks ago. Initially I was going to purchase a samick sage recurve but after watching your video and Lars I decided on getting a really awesome horse bow. This allows me to shoot from both sides of the bow using either the three finger draw or thumb draw. Modern target archery is just boring. Traditional archery is way more exciting!
@@michaelgibbons1277 Sorry. Just seeing this now. I got two bows. One is the popular toparchery horse or turkish bow that is sold all over aliexpress and sold on Amazon. Its a pretty solid bow. The lightest they sell is 30lbs. Fiberglass limbs and wooden tips. I have shot close to a 800 arrows with that bow. I also got the Arc Rolan Snake bow. There are plenty of reviews on RUclips. Its a great plastic tough starter bow and it comes in 18, 22, 26#. Armin Hirmer gives a great review of that bow on his channel. Both are great. But I really prefer the Top Archery bow.
@@reln72 hmm, I bought a toparchery fibreglass Han style bow a while back because it was quite cheap and it turned out to be very bad, lots of limb bending, badly made siyahs, they actually began to cut my string and I had to sand them down a bit, and the leather arrow pass completely ripped through in about 2 months!
Good work as always Jim, and not a single zombie harmed in the making of this one. I do think Lars has put forward some interesting and entertaining food for thought. And your video provides context important to the dialogue.
Archers paradox is simply the compression of the arrow under the force of the string and affects the arrow exactly the same regardless of which side of the bow it is fired from. You can shoot in any style/hand/side combination.
The archer's paradox doesn't care about which side of the bow you release from, or which grip you use. It's only about stiffness of the arrow, length of the arrow/draw, acceleration, and how thick the handle the arrow has to bend around is. Draw doesn't change any of these variables, both grips ideally loose the arrows the same - straight and without interference.
I shot from the right side of my Bow using the Mediterranean Finger Hold as a Right Handed Archer from 1964 to 1974. Accuracy and repeatability were never a problem and I didn’t need to wear an Arm Guard because the Bowstring never hit my Arm unless I was shooting on the left side of the Bow
Not Western but modern target archery style. There is plenty of historical evidence for European medieval archers shooting on the right with 'mediteranean three finger' release. The fact that you are adamant that this is only an 'eastern' style shows that Lars describing the style as lost is very apt.
Great video. I was trying to find out why I sucked so bad shooting thumb side but could find it. Until I randomly happened upon this video so thank you.
I have watched Armin Hirmer shoot from the right side using several different grips. It seems to me that shooting from the left is something to do while learning as it is a lazy way of doing it. You don't have to worry so much about the arrow pulling away from the bow while aiming.
Thank you, i tried shooting on the right side of my bow and was wondering why my arrows didn't fly straight. I tried again using my thumb, and can confirm it works now!
Thank you so much, this video makes so much sense I was a skilled archer as a kid but trying to get back into archery I had forgot everything, this helped me realise my faults.
You don't need to only use a Mongolian thumb draw to shoot with the arrow on the right side of the bow. the Sassanid draw uses the index finger to stabilize the arrow against the bow, while the ring and middle finger (and even pinky) pull the string. You do not need a thumb ring for the Sassanid draw. As a variation, you can even use the side of your middle finger to press the arrow to the bow, while your index finger helps pull the string on top of the arrow. It really makes the work of drawing easier on your fingers, and most importantly... if you shoot with the arrow on the right side of the bow, you do not need a forearm guard. :) And yes, shooting on the right is A LOT faster... and you can still draw heavy bows just fine. (Trick: Your puller muscles are a lot weaker than your pusher muscles. Lock the string arm and then push the bow away from you instead of pulling on the string. Drawing even a heavy bow, will be magically easier.) ;) If it is stupid and it works, it ain't stupid.
Hey, im having issues shooting on the right side of the bow. It keeps veering off 5 feet to the right, i tried different draw styles and im not an expert, but i have no idea how to get this working. Any thoughts on how to get the arrow straight ?
@@TheRealEvades If you try to sight down the arrow, like you do when shooting on the left, your aim will be way off to the right. You don't sight the same way when shooting on the right. It is instinct shooting. Point shooting. Step closer to your target, even if you need to start only ten, or even 5 feet away. Point and shoot with out sighting down the arrow. Shoot at least 200 shots a day. (I can knock out 200 shots in 20 minutes easily) As your aim becomes better take a few steps back from the target. Keep doing this and soon you will be hitting bull's eyes from a good distance. You have to train a lot more, i.e. shoot a lot more arrows, for instinct shooting, which was probably why sight shooting was adopted. Sight shooting is much quicker to learn, but a lot slower to nock and shoot, and the arrow is not as secure when drawing the bow. Keep both eyes open. Instinct shooting is very different than sight shooting. It is a "feeling", not sighting down the arrow. "Feel" the shot. Instinct shooting even allows you to shoot blindfolded and in the dark, by using your hearing, and "feeling" the shot... something that sight shooting will never allow you to do. Instinct shooting also allows you to hit a target behind you by looking in a mirror... tricks I know, but it was part of really old school archery training for war. Because archers did need to shoot in the dark.
@@gatocles99 thank you for your reply and info, I have just ordered a beautiful mongolian bow and will do just that once it arrives. i may message again to either update or ask a question :) but feel free to ignore me if i bug you. thank you again
@@TheRealEvades No prob. Here is an old/ancient trick that many "experts" don't know about because most of them don't shoot. Wear a thumb ring on your left hand to use as an arrow rest, if your bow does not have an arrow rest. It keeps the fletching from tearing up your hand. It is why many ancient archers wore thumb rings on both hands, one as an arrow rest, one for the string. Also, consider investing in a cheap 10-30 pound fiberglass bow. With a canvas dropcloth as a backstop, you can set up a target inside your house and shoot all winter long(I live in a VERY cold area) Also, a light bow is better for learning the mechanics of shooting on the right... once you have that down shooting heavy is easy. Cultivate accuracy and speed first... then power... Have fun.
@heavenzceed I shoot the cheapest regular nocked arrows I can find... because I don't cry when they break, and I can afford to have a nice bucket of arrows, and just shoot away till the targets are too full to add any more arrows. Cheap arrows, cheap bows... I am not snobby about it. Proof of the archer is not in fancy gear, but in skill. Not that I am any good, I just dabble.
It isn't impossible to use three finger release on the right side of the bow, just takes time getting used to it. :) Shadiversity demonstrated this very well infact, after only a day of practice. :D
Oh my goodness! I am tired of people saying you can't use a Mediterranean release with the arrow on the right side of the bow! I do it ALL THE TIME! It works perfectly fine!
Thank you! I was terribly confused. It was appealing to me to shoot on the right side because of Lars's enthusiasm about speed shooting, but I didn't feel at all comfortable releasing an arrow with a split finger grip. Thank you for making this video!
I discovered Lars Andersen some few days ago, and i must say that my moderate interest for archery has been lifted greatly after that. :) And after seeing the last Robin Hood movie with Kevin Costner(that reminded me more about a perfume commercial), i decided it was the last American movie i would see about Robin Hood. That was until i discovered that those who made the last upcoming movie contacted Lars to learn from him, and for that reason alone i now look forward to see that movie. :) I think few people have done so much for the interest of archery as Lars have done in modern time. :)
I'm glad he emphasized that Lars mistakenly stated is the misconception of ”long lost." Tradition archery in the east still uses right side shooting (easily found on RUclips - middle eastern, Chinese, japanese, Korean - most right-sided). That said, love Lars Anderson doing for the archery community.
Why Lars Anderson calls it long lost, is that he actually found a way to do Mediterranean style on the right side. This was done a lot in the middle ages, as is evidenced by a lot of visual sources, but we've forgotten about it
People historically shot on which side was easiest for them and depending on the situation that suited them best. Any combination of three-finger, two-finger, thumb-release, slavic grip, left-side, right-side, bow tilded sideways to the left/right is possible given the right adaptation.
You'll just have to make sure you don't twist the string with your fingers while pulling, or the arrow might rotate away from the bow. Additionally you could hold up your thumb next to the bow as a little guide while drawing
Thank you so very much for this video and explanation, i came to the Uk from america and i recently started shooting again after many many years i been recently shooting mediterenean style and i dont remember as a child ever using any finger tabs, rings etc to protect my fingers also i dont recall any pain as i have find out now days i do feel if i dont use a finger tab and just realiced its becaquse i use to shoot western style and i never need it one ,but since i started shooting here i whent to Archery clases so i could be allowed to use the shooting areas and was tought clearly diferently seeing your video i realized it was not that i was doing things wrongly before its simply a diferent style and now a lot makes sense, so thank you have a amazing day.
Nice video and thank you for not turning the comments off like all these other Lars Anderson haters did. Even if whoever put the video together for him was being a little bit dramatic it doesn't take away from the fact that the dude is seriously talented.
Jim, I was taught that the reason was due to torque. The split finger style torques to the right (For righties) while a thumb will torque to the left (for righties). The left torque of the thumb also aids in keeping it in place while moving on a horse.
Yeah that's right Gregory... It's those pressures that determines which way the arrow paradoxes... When you boil it down there is a lot of science in this archery stuff isn't there ;)
Too much for me. I just like to shoot and have fun. The Japanese have a great saying when it comes to pressure points "I don't know why it hurts, but I do know that it hurts"
Hi, from what i've heard somewhere, using "three finger" style when you're righty you have to put arrow on a left side of a bow because when you drawin you're doin abit of a twist on a string to the right side, if you put arrow on a right side it could fall from your shelf, rest etc... Btw: seein you with this windfighter maybe review of it in a future?:P
You can easily practice to not twist the string while drawing, or give it a tiny pretwist before drawing, and the problem is solved. Additionally it's possible to use your thumb as a guide
Thank you for this. I think the "leaving out of information" is what puts people off about Lars. He does a lot of showing, but not enough explaining, and leaves out fine details like how exactly he is holding a bunch of arrows in his hand and how he nocks them and so on.
Thank you for clearing this up. I thought I was doing something wrong. Shot with a bow for the first time yesterday. I couldn't hit anything till I shot eastern style. Realizing now it was the way I was drawing the arrow.
+brybrycrivello your holding the bow with your left hand and drawing with your right, resting the arrow on the right side of the bow? This is how i shoot. but finding a bow to do this is difficult. since bows are mainly sold as LH or RH?
Actually a lot of mongolians shoot on the left side of the bow with a thumb release, The thing is they're so good they dont twist the string, before you comment do yourself a simple google search instead of raging.
left side or right side is not a problem with thumb release as long your technique is perfect. Once try shooting with two finger (better version of common meditteranean draw) on the right side and i dont see problem
The archers paradox is the fact that due to the string firing at the center of the bow and the arrow being set to one side or the other it causes the arrow to flex around the bow. It does not matter which side of the bow the arrow is on, the paradox happens. There are ways to control this, having a proper spine on your arrows to match the power and degree of deflection for your specific bow for example. Some bows are specifically designed to shoot on one particular side, if it has an arrow shelf for instance. I have designed some of my own bows in which the string is offset so that it does not drive directly at the handle but slightly to the side I prefer to shoot from (left side). The fact is if the archer accomplishes his goal his technique does not matter. I do understand that different grips do effect string twist, which effects how easy it is to keep the arrow at rest, but with practice you can eliminate that in your draw. If you are having problems with your accuracy what you are doing is wrong for you, an experienced archer can watch you and help you to develop a technique that works for you. If you goal is to fire 10 arrows in 3 seconds Lars technique is extremely effective. I have spent countless hours trying to increase my rate of fire and independent came to many of the same conclusions as Lars. If you want accuracy at a distance I suggest the technique of English longbow men. Throughout history many techniques have been developed for many different purposes and they are all right because they work, if it doesn't work the strategy is abandoned. It exhaust me to hear all of these different people telling me what is right and wrong when the fact is if something works it is right.
There is one thing I dont understand. In Lars Videos it always looks like hes doing a split finger release. Also I cant imagine how some of his stunts are possible with a thumb release (like the 10 arrows in 5 seconds). I am shooting split finger and arrow on the right side, the arrow is flying straight and hits roughly were I want it too. So there has to be something wrong. sry if there are mistakes in the text, im from germany.
He does a split finger release and edits out all his misses. In the real world no one shoots the way he does. The conventional pairings are more reliable, accurate, and powerful.
There's a channel on RUclips with high speed videos of archers paradox. The guy does a whole bunch of type of other tests too like spine stiffness at high speed, knocking points, bares haft testing. Check him out. I'm surprised his channel doesn't get a lot of views. His channel is 'puujousi TIR-Bow'
As someone who learned archery shooting on the inside (Right for right handed) WITH a mediteranean grip, the "archer's paradox" applies in reverse to me. If I notch it on the outside (left) two things happen: 1.) The arrow tends to want to come off the bow because my muscle memory is automatically trying to compensate as if the arrow were on the right. and 2.) Aiming with the arrow notched on the left always sends my arrow off-mark, aka, it falls victim to the archer's paradox. Really what matters most is what you learn and what your muscles becomes accustomed to, because trying to go against how you learned to shoot will default to those two things happening until you learn to compensate for them automatically.
He doesn’t say that for a right handed person shooting on the left side of the bow is slow awkward and clumsy., while shooting from the right side is fast, smooth and efficient.
Nice Video. Short note from myself - very late i´m sorry: You can shoot any Arrow/Spine from the right side with a eastern technique called Khatra. Theres no matter of Archers paradox anymore, because the Arrow has not to bend arround the bow, the bow clears the way. It gains also arrow speed (avoiding "arrow slap" and "grinding" along the bow) and a straight arrow flight. Greetings :)
I shoot with bow in right hand, does that mean I need a left-handed bow? I'm just wondering because I taught myself to shoot that way when I was young, and I am right-handed.
The way I hold the right side shot is by choking up on the arrow's nock end. I get my fingers right up in there near the feathers. I do that because it lets me hold the arrow in a positive way that allows me to fire it. It also has the benefit of allowing me to pull further back without the need for a ring or anything else other than a glove sometimes to stop nerve damage. Sometimes I arch my body and shoot over head to get a better more accurate shot. I also am trying to learn to shoot with my left hand and right hand holding the bow. It's slow but I am getting there.
Great video, and i love the informative but easy-going approach to this explanation. Armin Hirmer has a series of videos that go in-depth about how to shoot Eastern style (including reloading the arrows in draw hand). Looking at getting that kaya bow from your shop too, its gorgeous!
Dang, I was using the Mediterranean release on an arrow rest that was on the RIGHT hand side of the bow. That explains the black lash.. I'll give forefinger and thumb release a try. Thanks.
Why should it not work using the thumb release with the arrow on the left side? I don't think that it is a question of the archers paradoxon. Maybe you could some practical tests.
Because mechanical releases mitigate paradox, some right handed compound bow archers have found that they can shoot left handed compound bows equally well, and vice versa.
Check out Lars's longer 1hr 30 video explaining his short video from 5 years ago, it explains some of this. Also, Armin Hirmer on RUclips is an excellent teacher if you want to learn new methods with traditional archery. Please do make sure you practice enough and slowly. 5 ends shooting and then into the next type of archery is not enough to get it right at all. Do it a lot at a close target until you are hitting what you want to hit, take videos of your front and back sides and see if you release and shoulders are correct. Pulling to a specific reference point is not as important as many people make out, but if you're a beginner this is important to stick with for a while. Also practise your grip on the handle and the natural release of tension, sometimes referred to as Khatra
Sorry, I missed something. You told us about the release and the different types regarding left or right sided, but you didn't explain why. You mentioned the different way the arrow bends, but not how or why it bends differently to the left or to the right. If the bow handle and arrow are uniform, won't the arrow bend the same regardless of which side it passes?
I dont think you made it clear at all, why would the side on which you place the arrow would have to do with the placement of yours fingers... The archers paradox??? Because the archers parafox would work on one side with one finger and the other side with 3... I dont get your logic? The only difference i could see would be the draw length... But still not related to the result...
it's about the way the string moves when you release. no matter how good your release is the string will move sideways when you let it go. for a right hands the string moves left of a finger release and right of a thumb release. it is more preferable, for straight arrow flight, that the string moves toward the arrow side of the bow when released.
So, I'm an amateur archer and bowyer. I've recently made an osage shortbow, I am lefthanded shooting arrow on the right side, using the Mediterranean method? 3 finger. Should I switch to the index and thumb even though I'm a lefty?
Because why would he? All this retards think that target practice and archery are ONE same thing,they dont care about the speed or even if the target is moving,they like shooting standing still,at motionless targets and call themselves archers..even thou most of them are completely out of shape and wouldnt hit a dam thing in a medieval war.
I shoot a Korean bow with a thumb ring and it's not faster just different lars is a trick shooter with very low poundage bow slowing him to shoot faster.
Why? I watch the archer's paradox video which was very good. But I don't remember it explaining why the right side for the thumb and the left side for fingers... Scholagladiatoria seems to have the best video I can find on it: "Traditional archery: Reasons for having the arrow on different sides of the bow"
With the thumb draw, when you pull back the string you are pulling the String (twisting the string) to keep the Arrow in towards the Bow !! When using your fingers (Mediterranean) to pull the string, you do the same thing but the other way round> to keep the arrow into the bow !! I think you`ve missed this point ??
Archer's paradox has almost nothing to do with what side the arrow is on, as long as you're not emparting torque on it via your grip hand. It is perfectly possible to shoot mediterranian grip on the right side as a right-handed archer. It's also perfectly possible to shoot thumb grip on the left side.
Hey, when I was growing up all of us kids shot off either side of our 70 to 95# longbows using the Mediterranean release. We never heard of the thumb release .... long before there was internet. These were a little heavy for squirrel and doves, but that's what we shot with flu-flu blunts.
Hej Nice to see a Brit with a Bow. I am an ex pat now living in sweden. 1) how much do your bows cost for a noob ? 2) do you deliver outside of the uk ? I am a bit weary about import tax on a bow into sweden ? So i was thinking of making a pvc bow, i know it is not original and factory made but it means i dont have to worry about paying twice or three times the price of a bow just to get it imported to sweden. Any reccomendations or tips from you would be appreciated, Also i have liked your page and subscribed to you on youtube, Where are you based in the uk also ? Thanx.
because the Qing Manchu, destroy any Mongolian bow and forbiden any Mongolian to access any Bow. Only after the Kuo Ming Tang kick of the Qing Manchu, the mongolian start to learn the Archery. During that time, International Archery is more available. Note: The Mongolian only manage to retrieve the Static Archery (they almost forgot the mounted Archery due to Manchu Qing.
Firstly best intro ever.... lil grizzly has a big future! Now to Lars... He's bonkers, brilliantly bonkers and with the extremes of bonkers they'll always draw attention and controversy...
i'm not sure if i seen Lars use a thumb ring. I seen him shoot fast and accurate and under crazy adverse conditions but never noticed the ring . i'll take a closer look
He use thumb draw sometimes, but mostly slavic draw ( index finger on the side of the arrow and middle-ring finger under it), a bit different than mediterranean draw. And yes, he is skilled. Accurate? Yeah, very close distance. But he shoots very light poundage bow and his historical claims suck.
The Agincourt archers nocked their arrows on the right side of the bow as shown in the Bayeux Tapestry. They managed to shoot thousands of arrows in this quick reloading manner.
Then why all depictions from medieval western Europe shows arrows on the right side of the bow. If you use left side arrow you will bemuch much slower and in close engagements you are done.
on compound this is a moot point. you shoot from the center. and if it is a combat situation, the person with the compound will probably shoot this speedshooter's head twice before he reaches the distance to even touch him with the arrows.
So my left eye is dominant wich means i am one of the veary few people that is right handed and holds the bow in his right hand (normally hold in left, pull with right). Would it mean that with this eastern style i can use left handed bows while aiming with my left eye?
Realistically a arrow able to be fired that quickly shouldn't have the force necessary to penetrate real chain mail I'd think though. He pulls the bow way too quickly for it to be much over 50 and I'm not sure any man could split an incoming arrow. I don't even really believe the video.
He thought it would be stupidly hard and that he split the arrow with luck, and said he won't be doing it again anytime soon since it is so hard. It was something like 14th try he succeeded. And it was bamboo arrow so it is easier to split not normal one.
And here I am, knowing nothing about archery and wondering why anyone would bring the arrow across the bow to shoot it from the index... Is there any benefit or is it just what people train because of tradtition?
Nice video! Instead of putting down Lars's video (like everyone else) you just give us more info! Nicely done! But I still have a question.. How does the grip affect the arrow's oscilation? Honestly, I'm not an every-day-archer myself but everytime I've used a bow I always put the arrow on the right side and pull the string, not the arrow... And it works! But I would love to understand the physics behind it!!
"the grip" ? what do you mean by that ? the way you grip the bow ? square , oblique ... ? "arrow oscilation" ? what do you mean by that ? do you refer to archer's paradox , the fishtailing ... or what ? "How does the grip affect the arrow's oscilation?" this question is very strange ... I never heard that before . if you wanna ask how the position of the arrow in regard to the bow (left or right side of the bow) affect the paradox ... this is easy to explain .
I once made a bow a couple of years ago, it was really a crappy looking bow and the sides weren’t even, but it’s actually kind of accurate. Part of it is really thick, and the other part is really long but bendy. You just have to find the spot that gives you the most accuracy and find a grouping, and mark certain arrows that don’t group well. Don’t hunt with those. I made it out of maple and it has been sitting out for 3 years, hardening and thickening. I’m going to make another one, preferably out of maple, with a very specific design that I like to make my bows with.the design is to make the bow long, since making it long will relieve tension from the grain when you shoot.
Probably the most non-hostile video regarding Lars Andersen I have seen. Seriously bravo!
+Eddie Mo most of the hostile people are just clowns that do archery and suck or cant even get there skill to 5% of what lars is at and then they do what most saps do is hate or lie.
yeh but most of it is bollox though, like you can't catch an arrow unless its set up.
+Hound Zero he says this lol
Photography Raptor
Yeah, Lars said that himself. It’s either a record of a very lucky moment, or an exaggerated account of a man picking an arrow from the ground
Lmao Lars the one who was hostile towards other archery community
I always thought shooting on the right side was traditional for everyone. Looking at historical books, pictures, and paintings, the arrow is on the right :o it would make sense during times of war as it would be faster
In my opinion, modern archers, or people in general, tend to complicate things.
If you just think of the differences between a bow shot from a horseback or a bow used while standing still and using it at longer range, it makes a lot of sense to me why there have been different approaches to maximize effectiveness of archery.
I can also imagine shooting a 150 lb bow or a 50 lb bow makes a huge difference talking about rate of fire, accuracy, effective range, etc.
For example ... why would a European archer walk close with a 150 pound bow while you can't maneuver your 150 pound bow as fast as a 50-70 pound compound bow ... so you need different approaches to push your weapon to its absolute limit, depending on the situation you are in.
I think this western and eastern style shooting discussion is completely out of date for modern archers as it tries to compare ways of thinking from earlier times when bows were mandatory to win a war... nowadays they are "only" used for fun or competition, which is obviously a complete different mindset about how to shoot and why to choose a particular style.
Let me think what you think about it. Cheers \ o
Tacx, I understand exactly what you're saying, so I think it comes down to your mindset, if you're traditionally minded or just having fun when it comes to the modern traditions of archery! I love to delve into history and get the details right as much as possible 😅 I'm an archery member and shoot modern Olympic Target style, but I do love to play with history. About to start shooting longbow and will be trying both modern and old techniques from tapestries, writings and paintings as much as possible! ✌️
Actually for European Mediterranean release archers, while some historical pictures show arrow on the right, most show it on the left.
@@dennit1221 no. Left side bow have been used for long time. Looks at Ramses II painting
@@dennit1221just excelent
First open minded archer that made a non rebuttal video on Lars. Thanks man, keep up the good work...
So Open minded his intellect fell and went splat along with any actual knowledge of this topic as he is still caught up in the misconceptions that has plagued the world for too long such as his beliefs around paradox simply are not true, unbeknownst to him an archer can use any drawing or locking method on either side of the bow....notice i said archer and not neophyte.
@@jareth7456 So true. But according to him, his brain wouldn't go splat because it didn't fall out of his head the right way and it was in the east end of the parking lot.
Jesus christ get over yourselves...
I am confused here. we call "western" shooting on the left side, "eastern" on the right..... Then why is there a mountain of evidence showing English and central europeans firing right sided throughout history? Just because modern sport archers don't prefer it, does not make it "eastern". I am learning to shoot right side on my traditional longbow and I find it HEAPS easier, faster, and more accurate, and YES it can be done with a split finger grip. Great video and points BTW....
It points to the finger style, Europeans always shot Mediterranean style, and not with a thumb draw. So he shoots "western style" in the right side
Also from shadiversty?
There are some confusion about this. It's not much of shooting from right side, more of mediterranean draw from right side. It's a bit uncovensional and tricky. It can be done with some adjustments. Slavic/partian draw (Index finger on the side of the arrow and middle and ring finger under it) is somehow better for shooting from the right side and there are informations about this in Arab archery and Saracon archery.
Legendary Tortoise yeah I got my bow recently and I was using Mediterranean grip on the right side of the bow. Now I use sandeye though
Yes the three finger left side method is largely western because the western Europeans and Americans use it and you'll almost never see it in the Eastern European Eurasia, asia or especially the middle east . Lajos Kassai is a rare exception likely because he used to be an Olympic target competitor and lost the tip of his thumb as a child. The work and achievements of people like Murat Ozveri, Mihai cozmei and Lars andersen and our beloved Armin Hirmer are and have disproven many misconceptions while stirring the popularity of archery especially Eastern archery to heights never before seen in popular culture as the dynamic martial art it was in the distant past rather than the watered down and static traditionalist Mediterranean boring twang 1930's crap that had hitherto been associated with the bow and arrow.
This is actually false. The archers paradox is completely unaffected by the grip you use. There is a channel that tested this with a trigger release which imparts no torque on the string but yet in his slow mo footage it still wobbled in flight. What changed the wobble to fly straight is simple . You tilt thr arrow to point at the target. Imagine a cross bow. The arms are canted slightly up so that the string doesn’t rub into the sled and take away a portion of the force. Instead the canted angle keeps the sting straight along the sled. The same can be done with a bow however and this is very important. Canting the bow when shooting on the left side of the bow will make the string slap your arm. A lot of people get around this by bending the bow arm slightly but that is stressful to the ligaments in the elbow and shortens your draw. It’s best to shoot on the right side and can’t the bow outward so that the arrow flys straight. This allows your elbow in the drawing arm to pull back straight and not impart any torque on the string. Without the slight change in angle you’ll lose the form in your drawing arm and it with torque the string slightly causing the arrow to fall off. The safest way to fire a bow for the user is to shoot on the right. This is because the string is away from your body and your structure in your arms and back is more strong opening outward.
There is no correct or incorrect side of shooting arrows. Both side work. There is no single correct way to shoot either. There are different style of shooting bow all over the world and every style work in their own way.
And the arrow bends with trigger release, but bends less because fingers doesn't affect the arrow. It still bends 'cause the arrow has to clear out the riser and rest anyway and also because of inertia.
You're both correct, but the OP does have a very significant point of bringing up the way you use your muscles. When you shoot on the right side and release while moving the bow left and outwards to clear the way of the arrow from the body (khatra), you also open out your chest and release back tension in a much more natural way.
That being said, you can also do this with a very small amount of added difficulty when shooting in the left side of the bow. This way, you also get to aim closer to the arrow, if you prefer to shoot like that.
I would definitely advocate shooting both ways. If you want to become a master of the art, you must know it well, and if you don't shoot all the methods then you will never know archery properly! But anyhow, there are many more grip styles which have the fingers and thumb held differently and arrows on different sides of the bow.
As Armin Hirmer says: there is no right or wrong way. You try whatever you want to and go with what you prefer. What matters is that you hit your intended target, and that is all.
@@greenhoodedvigilante458 both work when you are not in war, but try left side in war - you will be at leasst 3 times slower and that is difference between death and life.
No one sane would use left side on the battlefield.
@@kvarnerinfoTV Who told you that? It's just regional differect. Different region shot from different side, whether it's war or not. Can you show any proof that everyone in war shot from left side?
@@greenhoodedvigilante458 Medieval depictions, al old pictures and paintings represents western archers with right side arrows.
And andother thing - logic, shooting 3-5 times faster is battle winner.
Left side shooting is terribly slow compared to right side shooting. Try it yourself when you buy medieval bow - you will shoot at least 3 arrows from right side while you shoot one from left side.
When you get better you would be ablet to outshood left sider maybe even 5 to one.
2:1 is battle winner, 3 to 1 is mayhem. Why would enyone coomit suicide by slow shooting on the battle field.
Left side is modern technique, right side is old battlfield technique.
www.bow-international.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2019/05/BOW133.Historical.01-662x1024.jpg
bshistorian.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/luttrell-archers.jpg
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Just imagine using left side in the heat of the battle, losing all that time....being exposed and slow.
Don’t understand people hating on Lars. The guys seriously mastered his craft. Respect is due
I was living under a rock and didnt hear about Lars Anderson until I saw your video several weeks ago. Initially I was going to purchase a samick sage recurve but after watching your video and Lars I decided on getting a really awesome horse bow. This allows me to shoot from both sides of the bow using either the three finger draw or thumb draw. Modern target archery is just boring. Traditional archery is way more exciting!
reln72 what model of bow did you purchase?
At the end of the day, you can do any style of archery with a traditional bow. This is not true with almost all modern styles.
@@michaelgibbons1277 Sorry. Just seeing this now. I got two bows. One is the popular toparchery horse or turkish bow that is sold all over aliexpress and sold on Amazon. Its a pretty solid bow. The lightest they sell is 30lbs. Fiberglass limbs and wooden tips. I have shot close to a 800 arrows with that bow. I also got the Arc Rolan Snake bow. There are plenty of reviews on RUclips. Its a great plastic tough starter bow and it comes in 18, 22, 26#. Armin Hirmer gives a great review of that bow on his channel. Both are great. But I really prefer the Top Archery bow.
@@reln72 hmm, I bought a toparchery fibreglass Han style bow a while back because it was quite cheap and it turned out to be very bad, lots of limb bending, badly made siyahs, they actually began to cut my string and I had to sand them down a bit, and the leather arrow pass completely ripped through in about 2 months!
@@BibtheChib I also had to sand down the notches and reapply the serving as the string started fraying. But aside from that the bow hasn't warped.
Good work as always Jim, and not a single zombie harmed in the making of this one. I do think Lars has put forward some interesting and entertaining food for thought. And your video provides context important to the dialogue.
Archers paradox is simply the compression of the arrow under the force of the string and affects the arrow exactly the same regardless of which side of the bow it is fired from. You can shoot in any style/hand/side combination.
The archer's paradox doesn't care about which side of the bow you release from, or which grip you use. It's only about stiffness of the arrow, length of the arrow/draw, acceleration, and how thick the handle the arrow has to bend around is.
Draw doesn't change any of these variables, both grips ideally loose the arrows the same - straight and without interference.
I don't think you understand the real meaning of archer's paradox
I shot from the right side of my Bow using the Mediterranean Finger Hold as a Right Handed Archer from 1964 to 1974. Accuracy and repeatability were never a problem and I didn’t need to wear an Arm Guard because the Bowstring never hit my Arm unless I was shooting on the left side of the Bow
Not Western but modern target archery style. There is plenty of historical evidence for European medieval archers shooting on the right with 'mediteranean three finger' release. The fact that you are adamant that this is only an 'eastern' style shows that Lars describing the style as lost is very apt.
Great video. I was trying to find out why I sucked so bad shooting thumb side but could find it. Until I randomly happened upon this video so thank you.
I have watched Armin Hirmer shoot from the right side using several different grips. It seems to me that shooting from the left is something to do while learning as it is a lazy way of doing it. You don't have to worry so much about the arrow pulling away from the bow while aiming.
Thank you, i tried shooting on the right side of my bow and was wondering why my arrows didn't fly straight. I tried again using my thumb, and can confirm it works now!
Thank you so much, this video makes so much sense I was a skilled archer as a kid but trying to get back into archery I had forgot everything, this helped me realise my faults.
Thanks for putting this out. I've been waiting for some archery tips and advice from you, Jim!
You don't need to only use a Mongolian thumb draw to shoot with the arrow on the right side of the bow. the Sassanid draw uses the index finger to stabilize the arrow against the bow, while the ring and middle finger (and even pinky) pull the string. You do not need a thumb ring for the Sassanid draw. As a variation, you can even use the side of your middle finger to press the arrow to the bow, while your index finger helps pull the string on top of the arrow. It really makes the work of drawing easier on your fingers, and most importantly... if you shoot with the arrow on the right side of the bow, you do not need a forearm guard. :)
And yes, shooting on the right is A LOT faster... and you can still draw heavy bows just fine. (Trick: Your puller muscles are a lot weaker than your pusher muscles. Lock the string arm and then push the bow away from you instead of pulling on the string. Drawing even a heavy bow, will be magically easier.) ;)
If it is stupid and it works, it ain't stupid.
Hey, im having issues shooting on the right side of the bow. It keeps veering off 5 feet to the right, i tried different draw styles and im not an expert, but i have no idea how to get this working. Any thoughts on how to get the arrow straight ?
@@TheRealEvades If you try to sight down the arrow, like you do when shooting on the left, your aim will be way off to the right. You don't sight the same way when shooting on the right.
It is instinct shooting. Point shooting. Step closer to your target, even if you need to start only ten, or even 5 feet away. Point and shoot with out sighting down the arrow. Shoot at least 200 shots a day. (I can knock out 200 shots in 20 minutes easily) As your aim becomes better take a few steps back from the target. Keep doing this and soon you will be hitting bull's eyes from a good distance.
You have to train a lot more, i.e. shoot a lot more arrows, for instinct shooting, which was probably why sight shooting was adopted. Sight shooting is much quicker to learn, but a lot slower to nock and shoot, and the arrow is not as secure when drawing the bow.
Keep both eyes open. Instinct shooting is very different than sight shooting. It is a "feeling", not sighting down the arrow. "Feel" the shot.
Instinct shooting even allows you to shoot blindfolded and in the dark, by using your hearing, and "feeling" the shot... something that sight shooting will never allow you to do. Instinct shooting also allows you to hit a target behind you by looking in a mirror... tricks I know, but it was part of really old school archery training for war. Because archers did need to shoot in the dark.
@@gatocles99 thank you for your reply and info, I have just ordered a beautiful mongolian bow and will do just that once it arrives. i may message again to either update or ask a question :) but feel free to ignore me if i bug you. thank you again
@@TheRealEvades No prob. Here is an old/ancient trick that many "experts" don't know about because most of them don't shoot. Wear a thumb ring on your left hand to use as an arrow rest, if your bow does not have an arrow rest. It keeps the fletching from tearing up your hand. It is why many ancient archers wore thumb rings on both hands, one as an arrow rest, one for the string.
Also, consider investing in a cheap 10-30 pound fiberglass bow. With a canvas dropcloth as a backstop, you can set up a target inside your house and shoot all winter long(I live in a VERY cold area) Also, a light bow is better for learning the mechanics of shooting on the right... once you have that down shooting heavy is easy. Cultivate accuracy and speed first... then power...
Have fun.
@heavenzceed I shoot the cheapest regular nocked arrows I can find... because I don't cry when they break, and I can afford to have a nice bucket of arrows, and just shoot away till the targets are too full to add any more arrows. Cheap arrows, cheap bows... I am not snobby about it. Proof of the archer is not in fancy gear, but in skill. Not that I am any good, I just dabble.
It isn't impossible to use three finger release on the right side of the bow, just takes time getting used to it. :) Shadiversity demonstrated this very well infact, after only a day of practice. :D
Oh my goodness! I am tired of people saying you can't use a Mediterranean release with the arrow on the right side of the bow! I do it ALL THE TIME! It works perfectly fine!
It doesn't bend around the bow, it flies past the left or right side of the bow.
What about not pulling the string, but pulling the arrow instead?
Thank you! I was terribly confused. It was appealing to me to shoot on the right side because of Lars's enthusiasm about speed shooting, but I didn't feel at all comfortable releasing an arrow with a split finger grip. Thank you for making this video!
I discovered Lars Andersen some few days ago, and i must say that my moderate interest for archery has been lifted greatly after that. :)
And after seeing the last Robin Hood movie with Kevin Costner(that reminded me more about a perfume commercial), i decided it was the last American movie i would see about Robin Hood.
That was until i discovered that those who made the last upcoming movie contacted Lars to learn from him,
and for that reason alone i now look forward to see that movie. :)
I think few people have done so much for the interest of archery as Lars have done in modern time. :)
I'm glad he emphasized that Lars mistakenly stated is the misconception of ”long lost." Tradition archery in the east still uses right side shooting (easily found on RUclips - middle eastern, Chinese, japanese, Korean - most right-sided). That said, love Lars Anderson doing for the archery community.
Why Lars Anderson calls it long lost, is that he actually found a way to do Mediterranean style on the right side. This was done a lot in the middle ages, as is evidenced by a lot of visual sources, but we've forgotten about it
People historically shot on which side was easiest for them and depending on the situation that suited them best.
Any combination of three-finger, two-finger, thumb-release, slavic grip, left-side, right-side, bow tilded sideways to the left/right is possible given the right adaptation.
You can do Mediterranean with the arrow on the right side, as most people did in the past. Absolutely nothing to do with archers paradox
Cant you mix both the techniques? Right side drawing and split finger release? How would this be different on releasing the arrow?
You'll just have to make sure you don't twist the string with your fingers while pulling, or the arrow might rotate away from the bow. Additionally you could hold up your thumb next to the bow as a little guide while drawing
very informative and concise video and of course the best technique is the one that consistently gets hits
Thank you so very much for this video and explanation, i came to the Uk from america and i recently started shooting again after many many years i been recently shooting mediterenean style and i dont remember as a child ever using any finger tabs, rings etc to protect my fingers also i dont recall any pain as i have find out now days i do feel if i dont use a finger tab and just realiced its becaquse i use to shoot western style and i never need it one ,but since i started shooting here i whent to Archery clases so i could be allowed to use the shooting areas and was tought clearly diferently seeing your video i realized it was not that i was doing things wrongly before its simply a diferent style and now a lot makes sense, so thank you
have a amazing day.
Nice video and thank you for not turning the comments off like all these other Lars Anderson haters did. Even if whoever put the video together for him was being a little bit dramatic it doesn't take away from the fact that the dude is seriously talented.
Jim,
I was taught that the reason was due to torque. The split finger style torques to the right (For righties) while a thumb will torque to the left (for righties). The left torque of the thumb also aids in keeping it in place while moving on a horse.
Yeah that's right Gregory... It's those pressures that determines which way the arrow paradoxes... When you boil it down there is a lot of science in this archery stuff isn't there ;)
Too much for me. I just like to shoot and have fun. The Japanese have a great saying when it comes to pressure points "I don't know why it hurts, but I do know that it hurts"
Deep ;)
Hi, from what i've heard somewhere, using "three finger" style when you're righty you have to put arrow on a left side of a bow because when you drawin you're doin abit of a twist on a string to the right side, if you put arrow on a right side it could fall from your shelf, rest etc... Btw: seein you with this windfighter maybe review of it in a future?:P
Its in the pipeline Paweł Wojciechowski ;)
You can easily practice to not twist the string while drawing, or give it a tiny pretwist before drawing, and the problem is solved. Additionally it's possible to use your thumb as a guide
I love your vids man! And i'd love to hear about archers paradox in detail in another vid :D keep up the good work!
I did not know that. Learn something new everyday!
Thank you for this. I think the "leaving out of information" is what puts people off about Lars. He does a lot of showing, but not enough explaining, and leaves out fine details like how exactly he is holding a bunch of arrows in his hand and how he nocks them and so on.
Thank you for clearing this up. I thought I was doing something wrong. Shot with a bow for the first time yesterday. I couldn't hit anything till I shot eastern style. Realizing now it was the way I was drawing the arrow.
+brybrycrivello your holding the bow with your left hand and drawing with your right, resting the arrow on the right side of the bow? This is how i shoot. but finding a bow to do this is difficult. since bows are mainly sold as LH or RH?
@merlinarchery Does it matter if you're right eye dominant or left?
Actually a lot of mongolians shoot on the left side of the bow with a thumb release, The thing is they're so good they dont twist the string, before you comment do yourself a simple google search instead of raging.
Most of them do left side with thumb release
left side or right side is not a problem with thumb release as long your technique is perfect. Once try shooting with two finger (better version of common meditteranean draw) on the right side and i dont see problem
The archers paradox is the fact that due to the string firing at the center of the bow and the arrow being set to one side or the other it causes the arrow to flex around the bow. It does not matter which side of the bow the arrow is on, the paradox happens. There are ways to control this, having a proper spine on your arrows to match the power and degree of deflection for your specific bow for example. Some bows are specifically designed to shoot on one particular side, if it has an arrow shelf for instance. I have designed some of my own bows in which the string is offset so that it does not drive directly at the handle but slightly to the side I prefer to shoot from (left side). The fact is if the archer accomplishes his goal his technique does not matter. I do understand that different grips do effect string twist, which effects how easy it is to keep the arrow at rest, but with practice you can eliminate that in your draw. If you are having problems with your accuracy what you are doing is wrong for you, an experienced archer can watch you and help you to develop a technique that works for you. If you goal is to fire 10 arrows in 3 seconds Lars technique is extremely effective. I have spent countless hours trying to increase my rate of fire and independent came to many of the same conclusions as Lars. If you want accuracy at a distance I suggest the technique of English longbow men. Throughout history many techniques have been developed for many different purposes and they are all right because they work, if it doesn't work the strategy is abandoned. It exhaust me to hear all of these different people telling me what is right and wrong when the fact is if something works it is right.
Love your vids there great, just wanted to ask you something what product do you put in your hair it looks really cool thx
There is one thing I dont understand. In Lars Videos it always looks like hes doing a split finger release. Also I cant imagine how some of his stunts are possible with a thumb release (like the 10 arrows in 5 seconds). I am shooting split finger and arrow on the right side, the arrow is flying straight and hits roughly were I want it too. So there has to be something wrong.
sry if there are mistakes in the text, im from germany.
He does a split finger release and edits out all his misses. In the real world no one shoots the way he does. The conventional pairings are more reliable, accurate, and powerful.
Hi there, thanks for clearing that up. But i do hope you will make a video explaining the arrows paradox. Thanks mate.
I will indeed but I am just waiting for a high-speed camera to record it all :)
There's a channel on RUclips with high speed videos of archers paradox. The guy does a whole bunch of type of other tests too like spine stiffness at high speed, knocking points, bares haft testing. Check him out. I'm surprised his channel doesn't get a lot of views. His channel is 'puujousi TIR-Bow'
As someone who learned archery shooting on the inside (Right for right handed) WITH a mediteranean grip, the "archer's paradox" applies in reverse to me. If I notch it on the outside (left) two things happen:
1.) The arrow tends to want to come off the bow because my muscle memory is automatically trying to compensate as if the arrow were on the right.
and 2.) Aiming with the arrow notched on the left always sends my arrow off-mark, aka, it falls victim to the archer's paradox.
Really what matters most is what you learn and what your muscles becomes accustomed to, because trying to go against how you learned to shoot will default to those two things happening until you learn to compensate for them automatically.
So what if your left handed ,and you hold the bow with your right hand and draw back with your left hand? Which side does the arrow go on?
Thanks for explaining the difference that I've confused before🙏😁
He doesn’t say that for a right handed person shooting on the left side of the bow is slow awkward and clumsy., while shooting from the right side is fast, smooth and efficient.
Nice Video. Short note from myself - very late i´m sorry: You can shoot any Arrow/Spine from the right side with a eastern technique called Khatra. Theres no matter of Archers paradox anymore, because the Arrow has not to bend arround the bow, the bow clears the way. It gains also arrow speed (avoiding "arrow slap" and "grinding" along the bow) and a straight arrow flight. Greetings :)
I shoot with bow in right hand, does that mean I need a left-handed bow? I'm just wondering because I taught myself to shoot that way when I was young, and I am right-handed.
The way I hold the right side shot is by choking up on the arrow's nock end. I get my fingers right up in there
near the feathers. I do that because it lets me hold the arrow in a positive way that allows me to fire it. It also
has the benefit of allowing me to pull further back without the need for a ring or anything else other than a glove
sometimes to stop nerve damage. Sometimes I arch my body and shoot over head to get a better more accurate shot.
I also am trying to learn to shoot with my left hand and right hand holding the bow. It's slow but I am getting there.
Great video, and i love the informative but easy-going approach to this explanation. Armin Hirmer has a series of videos that go in-depth about how to shoot Eastern style (including reloading the arrows in draw hand). Looking at getting that kaya bow from your shop too, its gorgeous!
Awesome man! I was curious to know that small tidbit. Also thanks for making a concise vid! Keep it up.
Dang, I was using the Mediterranean release on an arrow rest that was on the RIGHT hand side of the bow. That explains the black lash.. I'll give forefinger and thumb release a try. Thanks.
Why should it not work using the thumb release with the arrow on the left side? I don't think that it is a question of the archers paradoxon. Maybe you could some practical tests.
Have modern compound bows with rests eliminated the archers paradox?
important to note we shoot off the left side of bow for right handed Mediterranean draw. and reverse for lefties!
Thank you nice video. Is horse riding can be a reason to use right side of the bow?
I'm not sure what you mean exactly by eastern since I have seen old paintings showing european archers shooting on the outside... ?
Because mechanical releases mitigate paradox, some right handed compound bow archers have found that they can shoot left handed compound bows equally well, and vice versa.
I’ve been wondering about how to shoot from both sides.
Check out Lars's longer 1hr 30 video explaining his short video from 5 years ago, it explains some of this. Also, Armin Hirmer on RUclips is an excellent teacher if you want to learn new methods with traditional archery.
Please do make sure you practice enough and slowly. 5 ends shooting and then into the next type of archery is not enough to get it right at all. Do it a lot at a close target until you are hitting what you want to hit, take videos of your front and back sides and see if you release and shoulders are correct. Pulling to a specific reference point is not as important as many people make out, but if you're a beginner this is important to stick with for a while. Also practise your grip on the handle and the natural release of tension, sometimes referred to as Khatra
Sorry, I missed something. You told us about the release and the different types regarding left or right sided, but you didn't explain why.
You mentioned the different way the arrow bends, but not how or why it bends differently to the left or to the right.
If the bow handle and arrow are uniform, won't the arrow bend the same regardless of which side it passes?
I dont think you made it clear at all, why would the side on which you place the arrow would have to do with the placement of yours fingers... The archers paradox??? Because the archers parafox would work on one side with one finger and the other side with 3... I dont get your logic? The only difference i could see would be the draw length... But still not related to the result...
it's about the way the string moves when you release. no matter how good your release is the string will move sideways when you let it go. for a right hands the string moves left of a finger release and right of a thumb release. it is more preferable, for straight arrow flight, that the string moves toward the arrow side of the bow when released.
So, I'm an amateur archer and bowyer. I've recently made an osage shortbow, I am lefthanded shooting arrow on the right side, using the Mediterranean method? 3 finger. Should I switch to the index and thumb even though I'm a lefty?
Actually there are guys shooting with thumb rings and the arrow on the left side of the bow. Apparently with a thumb ring, it makes no difference?
not really. lars shoots a string holding two or three fingers and the arrow on the right side of the bow .
Well explained, thank you for your courtesy!
Dude, you didn't address the biggest reason why he shoots from the right, and why Eastern is better. IT'S FASTER! WTF! Why didn't YOU mention this?!?
Because why would he? All this retards think that target practice and archery are ONE same thing,they dont care about the speed or even if the target is moving,they like shooting standing still,at motionless targets and call themselves archers..even thou most of them are completely out of shape and wouldnt hit a dam thing in a medieval war.
this comment is too intense you should be more mellow
I shoot a Korean bow with a thumb ring and it's not faster just different lars is a trick shooter with very low poundage bow slowing him to shoot faster.
Dougy T and over sized nocks as well...
Why? I watch the archer's paradox video which was very good. But I don't remember it explaining why the right side for the thumb and the left side for fingers...
Scholagladiatoria seems to have the best video I can find on it:
"Traditional archery: Reasons for having the arrow on different sides of the bow"
Only 2 informations, but so important!!! Thanks a lot!!
With the thumb draw, when you pull back the string you are pulling the String (twisting the string) to keep the Arrow in towards the Bow !! When using your fingers (Mediterranean) to pull the string, you do the same thing but the other way round> to keep the arrow into the bow !! I think you`ve missed this point ??
Archer's paradox has almost nothing to do with what side the arrow is on, as long as you're not emparting torque on it via your grip hand.
It is perfectly possible to shoot mediterranian grip on the right side as a right-handed archer.
It's also perfectly possible to shoot thumb grip on the left side.
Don't forget the Slavic Release...split fingers and yet the arrow is on the draw hand side of the bow...😉😊🙂
thanks, just started I must be an eastern style shooter seems more natural and easier to to knock the arrow....
Hey, when I was growing up all of us kids shot off either side of our 70 to 95# longbows using the Mediterranean release. We never heard of the thumb release .... long before there was internet. These were a little heavy for squirrel and doves, but that's what we shot with flu-flu blunts.
What would you recommend for a decent left and right hand recurve? Cheers mate
I have the arrow on the right side and I use one finger above and one finger below (pointer and middle), does that work? I'm learning how to aim :)
He did actually mention that he had to relearn what he knew
Hej Nice to see a Brit with a Bow. I am an ex pat now living in sweden. 1) how much do your bows cost for a noob ? 2) do you deliver outside of the uk ? I am a bit weary about import tax on a bow into sweden ? So i was thinking of making a pvc bow, i know it is not original and factory made but it means i dont have to worry about paying twice or three times the price of a bow just to get it imported to sweden. Any reccomendations or tips from you would be appreciated, Also i have liked your page and subscribed to you on youtube, Where are you based in the uk also ? Thanx.
You can use mediterranean release on the right side just fine. Might take longer to learn though. But once you know how then it is a non issue.
How do you explain modern day shooters in Mongolia using the thumb draw with the arrow on the left side of the bow?
because the Qing Manchu, destroy any Mongolian bow and forbiden any Mongolian to access any Bow.
Only after the Kuo Ming Tang kick of the Qing Manchu, the mongolian start to learn the Archery.
During that time, International Archery is more available.
Note: The Mongolian only manage to retrieve the Static Archery (they almost forgot the mounted Archery due to Manchu Qing.
The side of the bow has not a great importance. It's just an habit. For accuracy it makes no difference at all.
Firstly best intro ever.... lil grizzly has a big future!
Now to Lars... He's bonkers, brilliantly bonkers and with the extremes of bonkers they'll always draw attention and controversy...
Totally bonkers.... But people are talking about archery :)
+MerlinArchery as they say any publicity is good publicity
Ty so much I always had a problem with this..... I have a western grip while putting the arrow on the right side :D
He has made a new video on this explaining that it does not effect it please look at it before saying he does not mention that.
i'm not sure if i seen Lars use a thumb ring. I seen him shoot fast and accurate and under crazy adverse conditions but never noticed the ring . i'll take a closer look
He use thumb draw sometimes, but mostly slavic draw ( index finger on the side of the arrow and middle-ring finger under it), a bit different than mediterranean draw.
And yes, he is skilled. Accurate? Yeah, very close distance. But he shoots very light poundage bow and his historical claims suck.
The Agincourt archers nocked their arrows on the right side of the bow as shown in the Bayeux Tapestry. They managed to shoot thousands of arrows in this quick reloading manner.
Then why all depictions from medieval western Europe shows arrows on the right side of the bow. If you use left side arrow you will bemuch much slower and in close engagements you are done.
on compound this is a moot point. you shoot from the center. and if it is a combat situation, the person with the compound will probably shoot this speedshooter's head twice before he reaches the distance to even touch him with the arrows.
So my left eye is dominant wich means i am one of the veary few people that is right handed and holds the bow in his right hand (normally hold in left, pull with right). Would it mean that with this eastern style i can use left handed bows while aiming with my left eye?
Realistically a arrow able to be fired that quickly shouldn't have the force necessary to penetrate real chain mail I'd think though. He pulls the bow way too quickly for it to be much over 50 and I'm not sure any man could split an incoming arrow. I don't even really believe the video.
He thought it would be stupidly hard and that he split the arrow with luck, and said he won't be doing it again anytime soon since it is so hard. It was something like 14th try he succeeded. And it was bamboo arrow so it is easier to split not normal one.
is this because its a tradition to shoot that way
or like something happens if like
your head get broken?
So you need a bow that's the opposite of your dominant side for an eastern style?
And here I am, knowing nothing about archery and wondering why anyone would bring the arrow across the bow to shoot it from the index... Is there any benefit or is it just what people train because of tradtition?
Great video!
Thanks for that info!
So helpful
Thank you. Exactly answered my question
Nice video! Instead of putting down Lars's video (like everyone else) you just give us more info! Nicely done! But I still have a question.. How does the grip affect the arrow's oscilation? Honestly, I'm not an every-day-archer myself but everytime I've used a bow I always put the arrow on the right side and pull the string, not the arrow... And it works! But I would love to understand the physics behind it!!
"the grip" ? what do you mean by that ? the way you grip the bow ? square , oblique ... ? "arrow oscilation" ? what do you mean by that ? do you refer to archer's paradox , the fishtailing ... or what ? "How does the grip affect the arrow's oscilation?" this question is very strange ... I never heard that before . if you wanna ask how the position of the arrow in regard to the bow (left or right side of the bow) affect the paradox ... this is easy to explain .
What length horse bow should an adult male get? They seem to come on 50, 53, and 57 inches.
Don't get a horsebow. Their hooves make them terrible archers.
I once made a bow a couple of years ago, it was really a crappy looking bow and the sides weren’t even, but it’s actually kind of accurate. Part of it is really thick, and the other part is really long but bendy. You just have to find the spot that gives you the most accuracy and find a grouping, and mark certain arrows that don’t group well. Don’t hunt with those. I made it out of maple and it has been sitting out for 3 years, hardening and thickening. I’m going to make another one, preferably out of maple, with a very specific design that I like to make my bows with.the design is to make the bow long, since making it long will relieve tension from the grain when you shoot.
Oh really, that's so interesting, please tell me more.
Hey, I really like that horse bow! What brand and model is it?
That raquelestelag is a Kaya Windfighter:
www.merlinarchery.co.uk/kaya-windfighter-traditional-bow-50.html
Thanks for sharing in detail