Hi, I have worked for almost 30 years as a specialist in color, variable data, and workflow software at a major manufacturer of digital printers (laser, LEDs, and inkjets) for production, and your explanation is perfect, straight to the point. And as you mentioned, there is no need to convert RGB files to CMYK color space in environments with a good color management system. Congratulations on the video!
Thank you very much for your kind reply. Your remark on "environments with good color management" is very important, though. Some smaller print providers over here still don't have color management. In the 21st century ...
@@hoffmann-photography-Syke, I'm from Brazil and here just a few understand what means color management... The vast majority of print providers (offset or digital) simply waste a lot on paper, inks, supplies, and even customers due to not using the color management concepts and equipment that have been available for decades.
I've been working with printers and designers for twenty years and I've never heard a better explanation than this. Thank you so much! 😃 In my new computer (Linux) I use GIMP 2.10.34, so I can't work in CMYK by now, but thanks to this video now I know how to organize my work better.
Good video, but remember,... The advice in this video is for images (photos and raster-based illustration) specifically, not ALL print files. There are many instances where you might want single-color text on a printed piece (small text and body copy) or even jobs to be printed with less than 4-colors. That is impossible when designing everything in RGB. The biggest mistake I see from novice designers is working in RGB for all elements, including text and logos (usually in photoshop), just as they would for online work, when switching over to print jobs. That practice not only converts all their colors to 4-c mixes (even those that should stay pure 1-color black, yellow cyan or magenta), but can lead to lower output DPI on their vector-based items (text, logos, etc) depending on how they treated those within the files, and what file format they delivered them to the printer.
But what about placing a RGB jpg into a CMYK file that contains transparency? Back in the day, with an Epson large scale printer, I used to get weird boxes if I mixed color modes within a print document. I don't think all printers have new RIPs that solve this problem and you don't always have the ability to switch printers.
I found your video trying to understand whether I should choose RGB or CMYK for my Affinity Publisher 2 documents. I intend to print them in my Epson WF-C878R, which is CMYK, of course. A lot of videos say I use CMYK but something was telling me it was wrong. The document let me choose ICC and colour space. Your video helped me a lot! Thanks!
Thank you for your comment. Please note, that you should use RGB only for pixel images (photos). Everything else, meaning graphical elements, fonts etc. should be CMYK in Affinity Publisher when you intend to print the age.
From my experience working at two different traditional printing companies for ten years, when we received rgb files and offset or web printed them, the rgb images do not have a black profile and the images would print flat. Did you see the difference when the truck was converted to cmyk, which it needs to be to be offset printed, the black fades to nothing. My experience is that the rgb image needs to be converted to cmyk, and the black profile adjusted so image prints true to visual. I don't know everything... and I am old school print production, prove me wrong. Maybe in a non-offset, web, environment, such as high end copies, digital print environment it works.... but I don't subscribe to this working in a traditional printing environment, offset or web. Very good video.
Thanks for you comment. The ICC-Profile applied to the RGB file during exposure of the offset printing plate takes care of all the parameters needed including the correct black plate. Of course, the ICC profile needs to be specific to the printing process (e.g. offset printing) and especially the paper used. If the black goes flat it's because the paper is not coated and cannot handle more than say 240 % ink coverage (which the ICC Profile takes care of). If you use a coated paper that can handle, say, 340 % ink coverage the black will not go flat. Again, the correct (!) ICC Profile takes care of that. Whenever color and contrast are off it's due to a wrong ICC Profile or a non-existing color management. I haven't converted a single RGB file to CMYK in Photoshop since CS2 when PS first had a complete and working color management. I had never any complaint. All I can say is, it works when handled correctly.
Work in digital printing, the shop need me to convert the file to 240% overink for cmyk conversion, is it possible the knowledge is outdated or they using old printer?
Thanks for your comment. There are still some print companies that do it the traditional way. Personally, I would say they are not up to date. But of course, they may have a reason that I don't know of.
@@hoffmann-photography-Syke The reason i know of is that some rgb black color use too much cmyk ink and make them hard to dry and stick together, so if there is really dark color in the image, I was told to convert to cmyk with 240 overink limit
@@HeinleinShinobu Well, yes, uncoated papers can only take 240 % ink coverage. But that is one of the parameters an ICC Profile takes care of. All the printer needs to do is to specify the printing process, eg. offset printing, and, more importantly, the paper that is used for printing (coated, uncoated, glossy etc.). Then the correct ICC Profile is specified and that takes care of all the necessary parameters. For an uncoated paper we in Europe would perhaps use "Uncoated Fogra 29", in the US you could use "U.S. Sheetfed Uncoated v2". And there are other options. I just ask the print company what they prefer. It always worked for me ...
@@hoffmann-photography-Syke I guess probably the production team doesnt know how to use the icc profile, I do think that rgb to cmyk done on printer makes more sense when some of the printers like epson at the place I work use a lot of ink cartridges like light cyan/magenta/yellow/black and white
I'm not sure why anyone would convert a single image like that into CMYK unless it was a clean format poster. But the biggest issue with what you're saying is the customers' expectations. The final printed image is sometimes so different, they are not happy. I have one question regarding the ICC profiles you use. Why not fogra 27/39?
Well, I still get images from customers converted to CMYK despite the fact, that it is not yet clear, on which paper it will be printed. And that's somewhat silly in my opinion. I do use Fogra 27/39 of course for 4c offset printing. But it is less than optimal for inkjet printing with more than 4 colors. Modern inkjet printers use nine or even twelve colors that can print a wider gamut than simple 4c offset printing.
Thank you for your reply. It's a good topic which I also find graphic schools just don't teach their students enough about. People constantly send us designs, not only in RGB, but without bleed and registration. It can be frustrating.
@@hoffmann-photography-Syke I own a large format printing company and I always send photos and files in RGB to the "machine" to convert using its ICC profile, which we previously configured. Many customers don't believe it! I always said that! Who knows, maybe now they can learn from you!
Hi, I have worked for almost 30 years as a specialist in color, variable data, and workflow software at a major manufacturer of digital printers (laser, LEDs, and inkjets) for production, and your explanation is perfect, straight to the point. And as you mentioned, there is no need to convert RGB files to CMYK color space in environments with a good color management system. Congratulations on the video!
Thank you very much for your kind reply. Your remark on "environments with good color management" is very important, though. Some smaller print providers over here still don't have color management. In the 21st century ...
@@hoffmann-photography-Syke, I'm from Brazil and here just a few understand what means color management... The vast majority of print providers (offset or digital) simply waste a lot on paper, inks, supplies, and even customers due to not using the color management concepts and equipment that have been available for decades.
I've been working with printers and designers for twenty years and I've never heard a better explanation than this. Thank you so much! 😃
In my new computer (Linux) I use GIMP 2.10.34, so I can't work in CMYK by now, but thanks to this video now I know how to organize my work better.
Thanks a lot for your kind words. I'm always happy when I can help.
Good video, but remember,... The advice in this video is for images (photos and raster-based illustration) specifically, not ALL print files. There are many instances where you might want single-color text on a printed piece (small text and body copy) or even jobs to be printed with less than 4-colors. That is impossible when designing everything in RGB. The biggest mistake I see from novice designers is working in RGB for all elements, including text and logos (usually in photoshop), just as they would for online work, when switching over to print jobs. That practice not only converts all their colors to 4-c mixes (even those that should stay pure 1-color black, yellow cyan or magenta), but can lead to lower output DPI on their vector-based items (text, logos, etc) depending on how they treated those within the files, and what file format they delivered them to the printer.
Oh yes, absolutely! Of course this only pertains to pixel images. I haven't made that clear enough. Thanks for the heads up!
For offset printing, simply choose the appropriate ICC profile and export to PDF/X-1a (which will convert everything, bitmaps and vectors, to CMYK)!
But what about placing a RGB jpg into a CMYK file that contains transparency? Back in the day, with an Epson large scale printer, I used to get weird boxes if I mixed color modes within a print document. I don't think all printers have new RIPs that solve this problem and you don't always have the ability to switch printers.
I found your video trying to understand whether I should choose RGB or CMYK for my Affinity Publisher 2 documents. I intend to print them in my Epson WF-C878R, which is CMYK, of course. A lot of videos say I use CMYK but something was telling me it was wrong. The document let me choose ICC and colour space.
Your video helped me a lot! Thanks!
Thank you for your comment. Please note, that you should use RGB only for pixel images (photos). Everything else, meaning graphical elements, fonts etc. should be CMYK in Affinity Publisher when you intend to print the age.
Thank you! It definitely helped me. I was so confused if I should converter my digital art work or not. Thanks for clarifying it.
From my experience working at two different traditional printing companies for ten years, when we received rgb files and offset or web printed them, the rgb images do not have a black profile and the images would print flat. Did you see the difference when the truck was converted to cmyk, which it needs to be to be offset printed, the black fades to nothing. My experience is that the rgb image needs to be converted to cmyk, and the black profile adjusted so image prints true to visual. I don't know everything... and I am old school print production, prove me wrong. Maybe in a non-offset, web, environment, such as high end copies, digital print environment it works.... but I don't subscribe to this working in a traditional printing environment, offset or web. Very good video.
Thanks for you comment.
The ICC-Profile applied to the RGB file during exposure of the offset printing plate takes care of all the parameters needed including the correct black plate. Of course, the ICC profile needs to be specific to the printing process (e.g. offset printing) and especially the paper used. If the black goes flat it's because the paper is not coated and cannot handle more than say 240 % ink coverage (which the ICC Profile takes care of). If you use a coated paper that can handle, say, 340 % ink coverage the black will not go flat. Again, the correct (!) ICC Profile takes care of that. Whenever color and contrast are off it's due to a wrong ICC Profile or a non-existing color management.
I haven't converted a single RGB file to CMYK in Photoshop since CS2 when PS first had a complete and working color management. I had never any complaint. All I can say is, it works when handled correctly.
Work in digital printing, the shop need me to convert the file to 240% overink for cmyk conversion, is it possible the knowledge is outdated or they using old printer?
Thanks for your comment.
There are still some print companies that do it the traditional way. Personally, I would say they are not up to date. But of course, they may have a reason that I don't know of.
@@hoffmann-photography-Syke The reason i know of is that some rgb black color use too much cmyk ink and make them hard to dry and stick together, so if there is really dark color in the image, I was told to convert to cmyk with 240 overink limit
@@HeinleinShinobu Well, yes, uncoated papers can only take 240 % ink coverage. But that is one of the parameters an ICC Profile takes care of. All the printer needs to do is to specify the printing process, eg. offset printing, and, more importantly, the paper that is used for printing (coated, uncoated, glossy etc.). Then the correct ICC Profile is specified and that takes care of all the necessary parameters. For an uncoated paper we in Europe would perhaps use "Uncoated Fogra 29", in the US you could use "U.S. Sheetfed Uncoated v2". And there are other options. I just ask the print company what they prefer. It always worked for me ...
@@hoffmann-photography-Syke I guess probably the production team doesnt know how to use the icc profile, I do think that rgb to cmyk done on printer makes more sense when some of the printers like epson at the place I work use a lot of ink cartridges like light cyan/magenta/yellow/black and white
@@HeinleinShinobu Yes, agreed! When you have more than 4 inks, you would be totally lost without ICC Profiles.
Very clear and concise. Thank you.
Glad I could help!
I'm not sure why anyone would convert a single image like that into CMYK unless it was a clean format poster. But the biggest issue with what you're saying is the customers' expectations. The final printed image is sometimes so different, they are not happy.
I have one question regarding the ICC profiles you use. Why not fogra 27/39?
Well, I still get images from customers converted to CMYK despite the fact, that it is not yet clear, on which paper it will be printed. And that's somewhat silly in my opinion.
I do use Fogra 27/39 of course for 4c offset printing. But it is less than optimal for inkjet printing with more than 4 colors. Modern inkjet printers use nine or even twelve colors that can print a wider gamut than simple 4c offset printing.
Thank you for your reply.
It's a good topic which I also find graphic schools just don't teach their students enough about.
People constantly send us designs, not only in RGB, but without bleed and registration. It can be frustrating.
@@Jharries1971 Well, of course graphics should be in CMYK, but photos shouldn't.
Thank you
Very important information
Glad I could help.
👏 Great, very clear! Thank you
Thank you very much. Glad I could help.
I usually like. png files. They allow transparency and are compatible with most things and can be high quality.
Yes, indeed. You are quite right, .png is the way to go. JPGs have become more or less obsolete.
Yeah, The format is just another way to store data converting Won't really change anything unless it's in the conversion program to do so
Thanks for your comment.
Im trying convert a brown to another brown but red in the list is always selected so far, im working with rgb and python
This gave an idea that I think is going to fix my problem
@@PremiereHell Ah, that's good! Did it work?
Fantastic video
Thanks
Glad you liked it!
Nice..!!!
Thanks ;-)
Nice! Welcome 21st century! Hahahaha
He he, but believe it or not, there are still print shops around that request CMYK files ...
@@hoffmann-photography-Syke I own a large format printing company and I always send photos and files in RGB to the "machine" to convert using its ICC profile, which we previously configured. Many customers don't believe it! I always said that! Who knows, maybe now they can learn from you!