A roadmap to end aging | Aubrey de Grey
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 15 янв 2007
- www.ted.com Cambridge researcher Aubrey de Grey argues that aging is merely a disease -- and a curable one at that. Humans age in seven basic ways, he says, all of which can be averted.
TEDTalks is a daily video podcast of the best talks and performances from the TED Conference, where the world's leading thinkers and doers give the talk of their lives in 18 minutes. TED stands for Technology, Entertainment, Design, and TEDTalks cover these topics as well as science, business, development and the arts. Closed captions and translated subtitles in a variety of languages are now available on TED.com, at www.ted.com/translate.
Follow us on Twitter
/ tednews
Checkout our Facebook page for TED exclusives
/ ted 
Наука
I'll be 62, October 2023. I went back to school in 2010 to do graduate work in Gerontology. I WISH I could have seen Dr. Aubrey de Grey speak, but never have. I think this guy is brilliant. I was hired (at USC) to work on the tail end of a 40+ year longitudinal study on Alzheimer's (a tragic cognitive disease). I was responsible for cognitive testing (and some gofer work being new in the field at 49 - lol). This guy is my hero as I've always had a fascination for longevity and immortality. I wrote a successful memoir in 2022 called "Alive After Dying" (not about life after death) and will be releasing book 1 of a sci-fi trilogy incorporating some of Dr. de Grey's theories called "Her Immortal Menagerie" literally this weekend. I would never have thought about releasing it if it hadn't been for this amazing man.
i will comment on this in 1000 years, cya!
Quite low probability.
But your comment had all chances be here in nearest 1000 years.
It's like 21 century rock painting :)
I hope you are right! We need to solve the problems in the organelles of the cells.
Check out my July 17, 2019 interview of Dr. Aubrey de Grey: ruclips.net/video/TquJyz7tGfk/видео.html
I must live forever. Survival is my prime directive.
Portable PlatypusDotCom
I'm aware. I know Keith :)
read Rational Fasting by Arnold Ehret if this is really your life goal
@@M0B1US :O Thanks for sharing
Prismira Vex you won’t that’s the only problem
Check out my July 17, 2019 interview of Dr. Aubrey de Grey: ruclips.net/video/TquJyz7tGfk/видео.html
Regardless of what people think of these ideas...there is simply no denying how freaking cool this guy is.
Check out my July 17, 2019 interview of Dr. Aubrey de Grey: ruclips.net/video/TquJyz7tGfk/видео.html
Awesome interview! I learned a lot of updates from Aubrey in your 2019 interview compared to this 2007 video.
I don't wanna lose anyone no more losses.
That's the attitude. Progress here will benefit some of your loved ones.
Same for me a cure for ageing so. I can save my family pets and elderly relitives hopee it will happen sooner than later
Now roughly eleven years have passed, and I was contemplating the same thing. We are on quite the journey, quite the transaction. I feel as though I just awoke 6 months ago and truly realized that I am here, too. To those reading, keep doing it. Keep living, breathe. I found this video in the 11th grade, 2008. I led a very different Life back then, and 2015 I very nearly passed on. I made it through though, and happened to just get married this last February. I met my Wife on Final Fantasy XIV. strange things have happened to me. They have all been good. This is a mystery worth solving, if not enjoying. Born 1991. Born in a very, beyond interesting time. Here's to exisiting as long as possible!
Hope you are still around mate!
Sadly after 13 years the world as a whole hasn't invested 13 years worth of *serious* effort in this. More like 2 weeks worth of *serious* effort.
*sigh*
Here's to hoping indeed.
@@cyberneticbutterfly8506 why no one invested?
@@cyberneticbutterfly8506 It's finally starting to invest seriously now. All of the longevity start-ups popping up all over the place, a few of them with essentially unlimited funds. And protein folding has been cracked, meaning drug discovery has been vastly accelerated. It took a long time, but Aubrey's efforts, among those of others, have led to this, in combination with huge and largely unforeseen breakthroughs in artificial intelligence.
@@MaestroStefanoPetrini Not enough people thought it was possible until very recently. Now, many people do, and most importantly, people with a great deal of money. These people are mostly tech billionaires, because they think in terms of a paradigm of constant progress.
Imagine how long this dudes beard would be in 1000 years????
+Amy Stevens Rhetorical question
human hair does slow down after a certain length but i don't know if it actually stops or not...
@@TheCanterlonian it does...It would be cool if it didn't
the purpose of life is to solve the problems of aging
Esdynu genius!
Well you can either donate to SENS directly, or at the very least set them as your nonprofit to donate to through AmazonSmile and Amazon will give them 0.5% of every purchase you make at no cost to you
start with the environment, that's all your genes care about
I'll add that I'm 100% on board with de Grey's argument and he's right on the matter.
The purpose of life is to be happy. The more time we have to learn about to be happy, the better.
freaking scared the hell out of me when it finished with that high volume
Guys like this one are the future. Good luck sir.
No one dies forever
This man is brilliant for actually saying this to the public. my familly has been working with DuPont for years and have successfully extended the lives of mice that normally live 3 years to 8.5 years, using the right theropy. the only downside to this was that within 5 days of stopping theropy, they died. So this is highly possible for the human species, i'm just curious how to live that way without daily theropy sessions
Aging is a disease, no one should be forced to live with it but we are. We will one day be able to decide between growing old, or staying biologically young for as long as desired. Some of us will take it a step further, merging with technology and becoming transhuman. I myself would take this route.
LOL
Check out my July 17, 2019 interview of Dr. Aubrey de Grey: ruclips.net/video/TquJyz7tGfk/видео.html
Well you can either donate to SENS directly, or at the very least set them as your nonprofit to donate to through AmazonSmile and Amazon will give them 0.5% of every purchase you make at no cost to you
Funny how I remember this video from the first time I watched it, to being apart of a community that donated to this cause amazing how time works
thank you for this great talk!
amazing beard
TOTALLY enjoy "TEDS Talks"....this particular presentation is one of my favorites. Mr. de Grey cracks me right up....huge intellect...down to earth presentation...and a flabbergasting joke or two. He's also got a longer program on YT as well (almost an hour) which is also worth a watch "Aubrey de Grey - In Pursuit of Longevity". Glad I've been for decades what lots of TEDS presenters are suggesting.
22:40 I love the way he says 'was a little bit of a'.
Great ideas! Thanks.
I look forward to the day when the average citizen is capable of deciding and choosing how they truly want to live. I for one would love to live far beyond my current biological clock. There is much great technology which awaits the future, from cyborgs, shapeshifting, and nano tech, to the grandeur of space, and I want to be a part of it. The future of humanity, a good portion of individuals will be able to choose whether they want to grow old and die, or stay young and healthy. I want all individuals to have this. Sure, the technology will likely start out expensive, but as it progresses, the costs come down. This trend has been ongoing for most technologies.
As for Overpopulation, BARE IN MIND that technology advances somewhat parallel, in the sense that both food energy and medical technology advances greatly as well. Some examples are growing meat from stemcells from animals to reduce meat footprint and renewables and fusion energy, and of course nano tech applications. These are just a minor few examples.
Birth rates have been declining worldwide and are expected to continue as contraceptives, family planning and education become more readily available. When individuals are given the ability to have children at say age 130, it's entirely logical to expect that a good portion of individuals will wait longer before having children. As said, education too will still play a major role in the future. When educated masses taught and given the resources about the issue of overpopulation individuals will act in response by say waiting longer before having children or having fewer or not having until the said future tech arrives. (according to polling numbers between educated population that believes overpopulation is an issue VS population that does not agree in relation to procreation rates)
I agree Overpopulation and Aging are both pressing issues, but ignoring one issue to focus on the other is not the way to go about it. Work creatively to solve both problems. Condemning the innocent to die because of concerns of overpopulation is not the way to go.
If you do not believe aging should be defeated, that's fine for yourself and you will have my respect. But when the therapies become available to the masses to extend human lifespan, do not obstruct individuals rights to excess such resources.
More information on Aubrey De Grey and if you want to donate!
www.sens.org/
Overpopulation is a myth.
To me the answer is rather easy. I would gladly hand over my nuts in exchange for this kind of therapy. After all we'll eventually be able to reconstruct nuts if need be anyway...
Brilliant peer into it. And its already been over four years. 11 since this was posted. To Life!
@@solomonroskin8879 si pero hoy en dia es 2023 y la gente sigue sin entenderlo
@@luismiguelmartinezsanchez4069 I don't speak Spanish, bro
My dads actually a doctor and has done a lot of work in the medical field and very solemnly believes in what Aubrey's doing because he understands that it is a real battle to stop aging as soon as possible. That and he actually understands what hes talking about in a sense that most people dont since it's half of what hes studied in his life. Anyways im just 14 so even if it doesn't turn out that well, it will probably have made decent progress by the time i'll actually start needing it.
Great talk! A classic!
I agree with you. what should we do abut this?
he is researching since 35 years about it and nothing is discovered.The most advanced solution is still broccoli and tomatoes
normal si la gente no le interesa vivir y no pone de su parte normal que esto tarde en avanzar
you have zero idea what is being done in research.
7 years have past since this talk was released. For those who are in the field? were there palpable advances? please explain.
Thus far the biggest advances have been in longevity research going mainstream. Google founded a company called Calico in 2013 dedicated to anti-aging research, and Craig Venter (of the Human Genome Project) founded Human Longevity Inc. Both are massive ventures involving serious brainpower and money. When de Grey gave this talk, those kinds of initiatives and numerous smaller ventures that have sprung up would have been unthinkable. It means that the promising research directions that he and others have noted will be followed up on to their full potential. So no anti-aging drugs as of yet, but it's only a matter of time now.
*****
Heh. Regarding the philosophical implications of extreme longevity or immortality, I have actually found Tolkien to be very thought-provoking, as he spent a lot of time thinking about what its psychological implications might be. This is a realm where scientists are not necessarily the best people to turn to for answers, or even the right questions. Some of what he communicated in his stories was inspiring, some sobering, as in and of itself immortality certainly did not stop all sorts of grief and tragedy. And of course *mortality* was perhaps the central theme of his work.
*****
Well, there we have a disagreement. I think the study of consciousness is the biggest issue facing modern science and pretending it isn't quite possibly not solely a product of the brain, as most scientists think, is itself a religion. But I also refer to mortality in the sense that nothing ever lasts, and grasping after permanence creates terrible suffering. I view great longevity as a means to evolve spiritually, not as an end in itself. That will lead nowhere. IMO, of course.
valinor100 Are you speaking of Galdalf de Grey???
***** David works on resveratrol does he not?
It is, words are very easily spoken and written, very observant of you.
I totally agree with you.
Where can we find more of this info
I will provide you with a link here:
www.sens.org/
It's a great charity, they have made plenty of progress not only through research but have been gathering support from leading scientists.
There's Aubrey's book Ending Aging. You also may want to join this Discord chat: discord.gg/ftSbffu
SENS website has a lot of information. Aubrey's book is very good as is David Sinclair's book and Ray Kurzweil's book. You can also encourage the science by donating to them directly, or at the very least set them as your nonprofit to donate to through AmazonSmile and Amazon will give them 0.5% of every purchase you make at no cost to you
it's been 14 years, I hope more progress comes quickly, time is ticking.
have you not followed David Sinclair? There has been enormous progress.
@@BlitzOfTheReich no progress at all,in these 40 years of research
@@MaestroStefanoPetrini how?
@@BlitzOfTheReich what progress you talking about we can't even regrow hair :D
I wish the Q&A segment was longer.
The end of this video scared the fuck outta me - VOLUME ADJUSTMENT PLEASE!
FREE AUBREY!
Aubrey isn't in jail lol
@@adamradiv No, I mean free him from the ire of anti-male ideologues and their ability to drag his name through the mud and take away what he's built.
This guy must be related to Gandalf "de Grey."
Long hair, long beard, English accent, wants to live 1000 years...
Brilliant an innovative ideas...
you can go into advanced mode and choose preference or settings and rev up your cpu and use gpu if you want. I don't know how you opt in for the cancer and other projects.
Plot twist: he is actually 158
see you in 3021
999...
lol...
998...
Can't wait to comment again in 3021
997...
I will definitely link this to others.
Thank you for bring this into attention.
Well you can either donate to SENS directly, or at the very least set them as your nonprofit to donate to through AmazonSmile and Amazon will give them 0.5% of every purchase you make at no cost to you
I'm going through all of Aubrey de Grey's talks/interviews looking for like-minded people who want to see this work happen sooner, so I've started a thunderclap campaign to help get the word out. I hope you'll take part! thunderclap.it/projects/25558-fight-aging-with-sens
Portable PlatypusDotCom Their MitoSENS project is being crowdfunded: www.lifespan.io/campaigns/sens-mitochondrial-repair-project
It's been 13 years already :/
Anyone still here?
@@absoluteunit3885 yep sadly It doesn't look like it at all :/
I mean I want to believe it, but progress hasn't been that much the last 20 years and we cant even cure the tiniest diseases or in most case dont even know what they are. Biology is just sooo freaking complicated.
I guess ai could save us, but who knows how long that will take (if ever).
So I guess till then I am not trying to get my Hope's up.
@@ingenium7135 Eeehm cheer up buddy at least in that particular time in history we actually do have a shot at it even if it's kinda optimistic ,so I guess let's try our best, becouse if we succed on reaching longevity escape velocity the reward is to great for the human mind to coprehend I mean with the exponetial growth of technology the possibilities are endless (full dive vr for example).So to conclude it's a cause worth fighting for.
@@ingenium7135
Could you update me on the significant and practical scientific discoveries of the last 20 years? I understand that there are none
Yeah, this clip is harder to find of pushed back in older youtube videos, you really have to search for this one.
There are never been discoveries regarding life extension.We can't add a single second to our lives
Youth, health is a temporary gem, with research, funding, dedication it can become more permanent then a diamond.
Hmm, good point.
Why his hair and beard is so long?
nikos t why is your hair so short and why dont you have a beard?
Adi Shakti i see your point...
but i'll answer you, bc they have taught me to like that style of my hair...
but i'm trying to let my hair grow long...
i thought maybe he have a spiritual reason to let his hair and beard go long...
like sikhs...
or 3OH sect fans
tbh, i have read research papers on long hair and beard playing a part in energetic pathways / intelligence. Hence the image of Gandalf pops to my mind.
Because - to be honest - he is 158 years old already.
We probably could have achieved this a long time ago if we got rid of religion entirely. Imagine the world being a more scientific place of understanding.
Fanciful human endeavours (imaginary or not) are part of being human. It's also part of how we invent things, including scientific development. Can't quantify all of history without it, even if one did agree that such a world was better. I speak on neither behalf of science or religion, nor do I entirely agree with Aubrey about lack of advancement equalling condemnation. For all we know, the Singularity will wipe us all out in 20 years. Not to mention how dogmatic mainstream science can be already, look at Dean Radin or Rupert Sheldrake's talks. In summary, your statement is broad and unsupportable. There are things you have not seen.
religion is a rational science imo but w/e, the biggest antagonisti of gerontologic research is not religion, but stupidity of humanity decision making as in refusing to cooperate in important sciences.
@@OttoGrainer27religion tries to eradicate science, human rights, free speech, ... at every point of time in history. it's the most malicious cancer in human culture
amazing guitarist.
No entiendo porque pusieron el título del video en español si el vídeo está en inglés y ni siquiera tiene subtítulos 😒
He’s Speaking way too fast, without pauses or a breather!
You can slow down the video. It helps a lot for my brainage to keep up!
Don't want to break high hopes but if a scientist ever figures it out you can bet it's going to stay in the hands of the top 0.1%, would never get in the hands of mere peasants.
Soul Reaver developed nations already spend a great deal on healthcare that doesn't work very well so we will actually save money by deploying such technologies -
chris mcaulay in what sense does allowing a human being to use resources for an infinite amount of time save anything? overpopulatoin is a problem being combatted right now heavily by the elite, this would work very counter productive.
Nanotechnology and asteroid mining will have a big impact on resource availability
Soul Reaver Resource related tech is getting better and better as well though.
Soul Reaver overpopulation is a myth. the planet is not over populated and could easily sustain billions more. However, the resources going around is lacking, and we need more of it. this is a problem when population increases, however advancing technologies will bring about easier and more efficient methods to sustain larger and larger populations. and EVEN IF overpopulation became an issue, there are other planets to populate. Also, most of the "overpopulation" is mainly caused by increase birth rates, saving the people dying from aging will not have a major impact, relatively speaking.
Can you believe that Dr. Aubrey de Grey is younger than me? He turned 60 on April 20, 2023! He's my hero! Sorry for my two comments and my adulation for the man!
When one reads some comments below, one can sense some people are very judgemental n comment upon the guys looks rather than appreciating his efforts n knowledge in the subject. He is confident about his subject n he ll succeed for sure n people ll benefit by his research.
@ladhymn Im glad you understand the current situation.
Dammit!!!! Not so loud, the freaking outro SUPERSONIC BANG.
@nathernrock I agree, he's off to a great start. Like he said, people seem very uninterested in expanding our life expectancy for some reason. We seem very content to just die and never wonder if we can live longer. You'd think many more scientists would be interested in this field but it seems like many aren't.
I think that we will make great strides in living longer and Aubrey might be remembered in the future the same way Pasteur, Salk and Edison are today.
This is fascinating! I can't wait to see when he succeeds! (I believe he will.)
Well you can influence it by either donating to SENS directly, or at the very least set them as your nonprofit to donate to through AmazonSmile and Amazon will give them 0.5% of every purchase you make at no cost to you
Thankyou science!!!
You have to Google it. There is a Wikipedia page as well. You can get links on the video on my youtube page
Very interesting. Also couldnt stop watching Aubrey "dancing" as he gave the lecture he he!
I'm 18 and this presentation makes me feel excited. :D
Well you can either donate to SENS directly, or at the very least set them as your nonprofit to donate to through AmazonSmile and Amazon will give them 0.5% of every purchase you make at no cost to you
The ending when TED came on the screen scared the shit out of me haha!
And families are a big part of that life for most of us.
There is a "lifestar video presentation" under video responses that will elaborate on the aging crisis.
@cosmicalryu When I said 'us' I was talking about humans, so yes having children makes 'us' evolve. I was also talking about 'physically' evolving, and that we don't do it anymore. Learning later how to survive in other dimensions is still not 'physically' evolving. (and a space suit does count as adapting our environment to handle us, we carry a suitable environment with us inside the suit... so yes, we have adapted space to fit us as well)
I love de Grey and his work. I really do. Bought the book, follow his articles and everything. One thing that bothers me about his message, though, is the fact that he doesn't seem to advocate better nutrition as contributing to a longer life.
He downplays the role of lifestyle probably for a couple of reasons. Basically, because it can only so far in extending lifespan.
But that doesn't explain the very obvious effect that lifestyle has on healthspan. He always says when asked that he himself doesn't live a particularly healthy lifestyle. He won't gain weight no matter how much he eats, for instance. He says he is well aware that this is not true for a lot of people, but I would say this has infiltrated his thinking anyway.
The other reason I would see he downplays lifestyle for healthspan is problematic - he's an alcoholic. He drinks "only" (his words) 4-6 beers a day and four glasses of hard liquor a day. He was fired from SENS for failing to treat his alcoholism. He knows that sort of massive alcohol consumption takes its toll on people, but he's chosen to ignore the toll it's certainly invisibly taking on him.
Some people are innovative even as they get older. Like Da Vinci. Though for the most part you have a point, though by that same token, if you're right then young people with new ideas will always be there to take over once people become old enough and too set in their ways. Really, if someone wants to live for a thousand years and experience all the things that happens to humanity and the world, I think that's a pretty admirable and understandable dream.
@Umbrage00 That sounds nice and all, and even a little feasible, but bear in mind there's a lot of questions that spring up from a transfer as opposed to rejuvenation. First and foremost, How would we ensure it was actually my conciousness and not just a perfect copy of my conciousness after the fresh body is made? Just because the synaptic connections and neurons all match doesnt mean I've made it to the other side. I'm all for cell transfer, but certainly not body transfer.
@TheZippy1011 yeah me too i think its frustrating. People 100 years ago didnt know that theres probably other planets to explore, but us, we know it and we will never see them.
But this time is probably more far than you think. Too find new life from we would need to get to the closest star and it doesnt mean there is. It's Proxima Centuri and it would take 19,000 years to get to it at 300,000 km/hr.
damn, the end scared me!
Wow!
@Llortsaccount wow first time you actually made sense.
Keep in mind that by the time we start making progress in extending human life, we'll most likely be making parallel improvements in other technology, such as food production, housing developments and waste disposal/recycling. Also, there's the more distant technological advances in space exploration and eventual colonization.
Agreed....and it probably helps weed out the nitwits ;)
Cliff's notes, please.
@classicrockforever66 any links to that if not don't bring it up
Tech Review went over this a few years ago and found the ideas not yet well supported enough to say that de Grey's proposals can definitely be achieved. I'm going to be going over the relevant research related to SENS myself for a final project in my scientific writing class. I really hope it turns out this stuff is viable. And if it is, let's hope the world is ready.
This ideas are not supported means that a lot of people don t agree with his ideas that people can be rejuvenated and we might have the choice of not getting old.
It s easier to stick to old ideas and they prefer this from economical reason not for scientifically ones .they prefer people to get Old and die.
I just wonder why doctor put still the stupid questions how old are you when it has no relevance for the vascular disease you might have .there re people with hypertension in theirs 20s.and why biological age which is not introduced instead of chronological age bcs it shoes all pathologies.
The society definitely wants us ignorants aold and sick
@arunkumarvikram Unless the mental aspects of the person get rejuvenated as well
@lhowlett88 Reseach in improving lifespans are decades away aswell. It will take at least a few decades at least before aging is fully defeated. If all fields, both eco-friendly research + longevity research were to be researched simultaneously, I think it will make a very nice future.
I would like to address the aging problem. The % of elderly population and the rate of age related diseases has been climbing due to higher elderly population. this contributes to the increase of healthcare costs
Slowing down or ending aging would be great for those of us who strive for perpetual development and gaining the greatest range of experiences possible... For the mass population that lives a life of routine living forever will be daunting. Their lives are so pathetic anyway. I am all for ending aging, as my goals far exceed even a few lifetimes...
Yes I agree.. there is a certain point at which I would rather die than age any further I think
I understand, and during the bad times even I have thought that death is not such a bad thing. But we talk so much about the value of life, and how suicide is so bad and selfish. Yet here we have people who want to live forever and love life to the fullest and instead of standing behind them we tear them down. So it's like one is damned if he does or damned if he don't.
No, your right. Non of them offer incentives but that doesn't stop some teams from running contests among their own teammates.
I avoided the first one, because I have experience in such matters, but the one at the end caught me by total surprise and I, too, felt like I almost suffered a heart attack. They really need to stop making that so loud.
I might be able to get behind his revolution, in all the videos I've seen him speaking on the subject, if he just once acknowledged that reproduction does not merely serve the function of replacing the ones of us who die. It also serves as our main means of improving genetically as the generations go on. I would believe bio-engineering and such enhancements could plausibly trump genetics but it's never mentioned so breeding still holds one potential advantage over immortality as I see it.
@ladhymn I was mainly talking about technology like innovating solar, wind, outer space explorations and technology, energy use. Vertical Farming. That's the point, if aging were cured and widely available to the public, not only will we have more money for such research and projects, but more people will be excited about the future instead of the attitude I get alot "I will be 85 by the time it comes out" or "we will all be dead anyways so..."
what does his tshirt say?
soon i'll be 25 too, I am aging so fast :(
@gumme1234 That was simply an example, we don't know much about that system, If it is true that there is alot of interesting planets and moons there, I would like to visit.
What I was talking about was living long enough to journey beyond Earth, although Earth is a pretty sweet planet.
i watched this in 2007 , and was more than skeptical about it , but as i watch it now , i agree ,and accept the evidence, its pretty solid
watching this guy talk is like pressing fast forward on the remote!
TENINCHLUVABOY's profile would make a great argument both for those AGAINST the extension of human aging, and those IN FAVOR OF sterilization of "the unwanted's"
Enki!
Empathy is what drives the desire to help fellow man and empathy is a thing that primarily relies on pain, by putting yourself in another persons shoes (realizing just like you they have dreams and aspiration). In a place where pain or death does not exist, empathy will die too. Im not against stopping aging (actually extremely for it), but we have to consider the social, political and philosophical ramifications it will do
@classicrockforever66 Thanks, so happy to hear it, i sure hope you're right, but i'm still a bit worried.
;)
I read this.. and thought - thanks, I'll remember that - but I didn't remember. And I really did nearly die.
@Ullbritt He is 115 yrs old.
Don't loose hope. There are quiet a few smart futurists who say that we'll arrive at LEV in 8 years from now, that would be the year 2030. Excited for what's going to happen
"Experts" have been saying that for many decades. Always 5-15 years away. I am sure it will happen one day, but probably still many decades away.
Check out the exponential growth of technology, that says something different.@@jimj2683
Liked and favorited.
this guy is fucking mind-blowing.
HA! obviously! my point exactly........