And also willing to cause a huge political scandal because he was horny. Maegor, arguably Jaehaerys, Saera, Viserys I, Aegon IV, Jaehaerys II, Aerys, Rhaegar, and that’s just a few of them. All caused significant scandals if not full wars so they could get their rocks off
“Blood magic dragon windows are so out of season rhaenyra “ made me actually LOL. Read it in the actors voice and everything hahaha. This is definitely one of my top 3 favorite ASOIAF channels. Thanks for the content!
Your theory is perfectly in line with the ancient Valyrians being big into blood magic and apparently most if not all of the things they did being rooted in blood/fire magic as well as making the psychic connection between dragon and rider make sense
I'm glad you pointed out the stillbirths playing a role in hatching dragons. My thinking on the situation is that the Targaryen babies that are not only stillborn but twisted and malformed like half dragon hybrids, are the ones who die in order to perpetuate the dragon's own births . I think that this sacrifice must be paid as part of a larger magical "contract" the Targaryen line made with the dragons centuries ago
I think that there's a good chance that in Old Valyria they would burn their elders alive in order to merge their consiousnesses into dragon eggs. (And maybe explain why they were so large? Stronger bond with the riders?) It would help explain why the Targaryens burn their dead in funeral pyres and why it's tradition to place an egg in a babies crib. If you incubated grandpa in a dragon egg, there would already be a paternal instinct to protect or bond with that child. I also think that it's too strange that a bunch of Targaryens have these dragon dreams and do crazy s*** like drink wildfire. If they were near an egg that would probably be enough to merge their consciousness into the egg itself. I also think that the tragedy at Summerhall was 100% not an accident. Egg did that on purpose to sacrifice Targaryens and hopefully get some eggs to hatch. I'm just curious on how it went wrong, considering it seems like all the conditions were met. Love your stuff dude! I'm 100% hooked and think you've definitely got a pulse on what's going on in the story.
I fully agree one of the most likely things is the dragon lords stored their dead ancestors in dragons directly as a merged mind like the weirwoods store souls of ancestors. Ice and fire soul storage methods. Glad you like the videos!
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff I've watched David Lightbringer video about this an explaining in the similar way as you the soul of the dragon Lord's are in the dragon an to be awakened
@@cherylbaxter8986Can you link the video? I saw his steam on his theory of HOW the dragons were created but I haven't heard his theory on the souls being merged
I heard someone that thought they missed one part of the ritual, the woodswitch that supposedly died during the tragedy managed to escape the fire, while Dany killed the enslaved maegi in her pyre.
Interesting thing: "three dragons" what we have in ASOIAF, (Daenerys, Jon Snow and Aegon the Young Griff or "Faegon" as fans call him) are gender inverted from the original conquering Targaryens. All though there's possibility of another secret Targaryen (one theory goes rather than fulfilling spot of "real Targeryen", Young griff is supposed to fill same role as Orys Baratheon did as Aegon the first's half-brother and "real" third dragon is Tyrion Lannister....long story, but Tyrion Targeryen is quite popular theory) the propechy is taken quite a twist. Not that it already hadn't: Jon born as a boy probably would've given Rhaegar some pause, as Rhaegar had already planned his other two children be reincarnations of original conquerors and Jon was supposed to be Visenya.
I like this video, especially the last part about the maesters and just how they helped to wipe out the dragons the first time. However, I have one caveat. You mentioned earlier that there was a mind sending dreams and visions to manipulate people into making choices that fulfill it's own goals. However, I believe it's more than one mind, and that these minds have conflicting goals. It's a metaphysical game of thrones within a game of thrones. Each of these metaphysical players are attempting to achieve an outcome. Some want a second long night. Some want to prevent it. Some don't care one way or another. They have other ambitions. The characters we meet in the books are the pieces, not the players, even when they move the action of the story, many of them are being played on metaphysical level.
I do agree it isn't just one vision sender with one goal. It is a chess match conflict. It might however be a bit of a mind meld making it one sender with multiple goals and a bit of a split personality haha but that will have to be talked about in detail in a future video
Not to belittle your theory but it immediately made me think of the "psychic battle" on South Park where they put a finger to their temple and pretend to attack with mind waves 😂 "I just sent a vision about 3 dragon heads to the targaryens!" "Oh yeah?! Well I just sent crow dreams to the cripple boy! He's gonna be my special boy!" "NO HES MY SPECIAL BOY"
I don't see it quite like that, more like they are sending dreams, or controlling animals, putting visions in flames, etc. in hopes of getting people to behave in a certain way. It's no guarantee, which Bloodraven tried to warn Bran about, but it's what's happening behind the scenes.@@Seattletyy93
I know, it is probably irrelevant but Dany, John and Tyrion are third kids in some ways. John is third child of Rhaegar, Dany third living child of Rhaella Targaryen, Tyrion is third child of Joanna Lannister. Also their older siblings are either brutally killed(in case of Dany and John) or destined to be brutally killed(I highly doubt that Jaime outlive Cercei much)
It makes sense! Blood sacrifices are at the base of all the strongest magic that actually works in these books and the Maesters were against everything that Targaryens stood for from the very beginning.
There are also lost Targaryen tapestries that might contain info- I think House Darry has some. The obsidian daggers are also known as glass candles and can be used to communicate at nighttime. A maester spending the night with a glass candle might receive messages from someone else doing the same (Marwyn?). There might also be something to pricking oneself with the dagger/candle to add blood to the recipe to light it ablaze. Finally, Blackfish’s “obsidian black fish brooch” is also an obsidian dagger and glass candle, so he might be part of this nighttime communion ritual.
I will have to look more into the tapestries. You are totally right that is a perfect place some lost dragon lore could be hidden. I wonder if there is anything like that going on in the show or any detailed descriptions of the actual images on the tapestries from the books... Also if the daggers aren't glass candles themselves they could certainly be related. They seem like smaller versions of the glass candles from the books. They could be literally them but also if the candles have to be renewed with blood magic from time to time a smaller version of them that had some connection and was constantly used for sacrifices could be a good method to renew the bond.
A glass candle isn't a dagger an I'll have to look at the Blackfish broach as it's to small to be a glass candle I do think that's how Quaithe is communicating with Danny an Marwyn will bring Daenerys a glass candle with him for her
Also coming back to say I just realized I used the scene in the thumbnail where they are laughing at the idea that Daemon would want to see the new tapestries Alicent put up hahaha so literally a scene where they are hiding dragon knowledge and laughing about it... I will from this moment on pretend that was all planned and on purpose because how much more fitting could it be
Daemon is singing to Vermithor because he hasn’t had a rider since Jahaerys died and Vermithor flew back to Dragonstone, and in the decades since, he’s become increasingly more wild during his time there, surrounded by other wild dragons like Sheep Stealer and The Cannibal. But they’re going to need him to be willing to take another rider soon; the Blacks are going to use the dragon seeds or targeryan bastards to significantly increase their number of dragon riders because right now, the Greens and the Blacks are too evenly matched what with Aemond bonded to Vhagar, and Luke and his dragon being killed at the end of Season 1. But the hightowers forget that the Targaryens and Valarions are now settled on dragonstone, which not only has several riderless dragons, wild and otherwise, PLUS the dragons are producing eggs there.
It could be an expression with more than one meaning like "words are wind" and "a Lannister pays his debts." I think your three consciousness theory and its reflection in the Targaryen sigil is right and the sigil has another layer of meaning by representing Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys. Plus Dany's frequently called Aegon the Conqueror come again, Drogon's called Balerion come again, Viserion and Rhaegal are namesakes of Visenya and Rhaenys, there's the allusions to WoT and time being cyclical, so it seems like there are two other people meant to fill similar roles.
Agreed, GRRM loves multiple meaning. I believe the 3 heads is a magic recipe, but the sigil hides the recipe by also representing the 3 conquerors. Then Bran/vision sender of your choice has also warped the meaning to represent something else to make Rhaegar act in the way he wants.
It would be interesting. It very GRRM that Rhaeger brought his own doom to his dynasty with ignorance and misunderstanding of prophecy - like they say how two edged prophecies are in the books. Due to loss of Targaryen culture - the recent Targaryens with no idea about their own people which then allows Dany to reveal and unlock their lost culture in her journey and avoid Rhaeger mistake.
It always seemed strange to me that even in times where there were a lot of dragons and obviously a lot of eggs, the eggs were hatched away from the mother. Yes, naturally reptiles don't always take care of their eggs, but dragons aren't "natural" in every other lore, dragons are very careful with their eggs and protect the nests with their life. So what we have in Valiryan lore then (to englobe HotD and GoT) is either natural reptile behaviour in dragons or the fact that without blood sacrifices, these eggs are unable to hatch.
I watched an interview with GRRM and someone asked him if a blood sacrifice was required to hatch a dragon, and he said something like "I can't answer that, you'll have to wait and find out/read more"
I know that I've read in some comment section somewhere someone trying to do a 1 to 1 with the Targaryen babies that had birth issues and the dragons that were hatched in westeros after they arrived (on dragonstone). I hope that person is here because I know theyve already looked, I wouldnt know where to find it.
The Dance of Dragons. That's what wiped out the dragon lore. I would imagine the dragon keepers died when the dragon pit crumbled and as far as Targaryens with the lore after that war we're with just two young Targaryens one whom would later be known as Dragonbane and hated dragons, is more than happy to see the end of them. It makes me wonder if the War of the Wolves isn't what led to the Starks losing their knowledge but then it could have just been attrition from their many wars.
It’s interesting your input, but if we take it for a fact, then what the heck happened at summer hall? It is theorised that Egg orchestrated the burning in a failed attempt to hatch dragons and that possibly there may have been sacrifices of several people implicated. If he indeed sacrificed people and burnt the whole place along with the dragon eggs, why none of them hatched?
After seeing the video, I still agree more with Preston Jacobs' theory on the hatching of dragons. We see in Bran's wolf dreams that the fused mind is something different than the wolf and the boy. The dragon must have 3 heads: the dragon, the "dragon" (the Targaryen), & the fused mind.
So the dragonkeepers are sacrificing in order to continually hatch dragons, and the Targaryen line is seeing continual still births qua child sacrifices in order to keep a strong link to the blood magic which allows them to bond with the dragons. When the sacrifices by the dragonkeepers cease, the stillbirths continue. Dragons are also getting smaller and smaller. Are the later hatched, smaller dragons being powered solely by the child sacrifices (which presumably get less and less frequent owing to (1)shrinking of the genetic line and (2) advances in natal science practiced by the maesters)? Does this explain the shrinking dragon phenomenon?
Curious how laying the eggs comes into play. It does seem like Dreamfyre laid several eggs when Rhaena was happy in love & the same with Syrax / Rhaenyra when she was popping out kids.
The 2 heads to a third sing could be even more simple. My head, the dragons head, and our mind meld being the third. Similiar to how the third eye is explained. Not a literal 3rd eye.
i think the dragons are dead targaryens, but not necessarily just the stillbirths, at least thats not how its supposed to work. I think its ancestors, which is why the bond works, and why they do the incest. basically grandpa dies but gets to haunt a dragon, and recognizes their grandkids so they cooperate. But you need targaryen blood to make it work, so they avoid diluting it, as they don't have full on wizards to refresh the rituals. Dany happens to stumble on, or at least intuit, the correct ritual to hatch new ones, as it requires people who love or are at least beholden to you in order to submit to riding. I also think this is why targs tend to think they'll turn into dragons if they jump in fire or drink napalm or whatever. cause they might, if there are any dragons available to become
I do agree on one level or another there are probably Targ ancestors inside the dragons that recognize and like their descendants. Certainly seems like the most consistent and most GRRM answer to the info we have.
@michaeltalksaboutstuff makes sense, except we've rarely seen two living targs that don't hate each other at some level, why would ancestors be so fond of distant kin?
@kevinfloyd808 that's actually part of it, I think. It's why the dragons are so picky. Their ability to sense the personality or essence of a prospective targaryen is likely filtered through dragon brain and a few layers of blood magic and a compulsion to serve, but they choose a rider that's compatible with their vibe.
i think the heads of the dragon represents the three sacrifices it took for dragons to be created,hatched and ridden 1st sacrifice was made in old valyria to create them by both bloodmagic and firemagic 2nd sacrifice inorder to hatch them again by both bloodmagic and firemagic(heat with certain songs) 3rd sacrifice by bloodmagic to tame the dragon to a person's will as for rhaegar,he didn't misinterpret the prophicy,he had a vision of three dragons ridden by 2 men and a woman(i think jon snow will ride rhaegal and bloodraven will ride viserion) therefore he decided to have a second son with a different woman(his wife became barron after aegon's birth) to fulfill the vision he saw
Hi I love all the videos you make It's very deep and realistic Thank you for your effort to enrich the world of A Song of Ice and Fire🌹 I have some questions regarding the three-headed dragon theory Do all dragons have to be sacrificed for them to hatch? and What kind of sacrifice? Would anyone be able to ride a dragon if they knew the secret, or its just the Targaryens hwo can? is it the knowledge of the secret what makeTargaryens control dragons? This is also supported by what King Viserys said (the idea that we control dragons is an illusion)
So I think the dragons probably require a sacrifice to hatch but the exact kind seems up in the air because Dany can be argued to burn 3 human souls on the pyre but it is also arguable she burns two people and a horse. I kinda think it probably requires human souls. As far as riding dragons I think the Targs have the ability possibly as a result of being descended from the original souls put into the dragons and therefore there is a legit family connection on some level. So while I think that is incredibly helpful to Targs bonding with their dragons I don't actually really think you NEED to be a Targaryen to do it. I think the mind meld happening is the thing that allows them control but it is a two way thing meaning the dragons are just as likely to be controlling the rider compared to the rider controlling them.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuffI like the idea of the dragon controlling the rider somewhat as well. Now that Daenerys is developing a fully-formed dragon bond with Drogon, I bet we’ll see her start to exhibit more of his aggression and ferocity which could play a role into her waging war across Essos and willingness to sacrifice innocent people as collateral damage
I’m not sure if I personally think it takes a sacrifice to hatch a dragon but I definitely don’t think it’s unlikely. I think the sacrifice that dany had to make was to bring back the petrified eggs into a hatchable state. I really love Preston Jacob’s theory that dragon riding is an X chromosome linked gene, and to hatch dragons you need two of those genes which is why only women can hatch dragons. And it just so happens at the dance of the dragons there was the possibility of 3 dragon hatchers. I also like this theory because it would likely mean that the Targaryens themselves don’t even understand what it takes to keep their power going and there’s some irony that on top not knowing how to produce more dragons, it’s only the women in this patriarchal world that can produce them.
Great analysis. My version (which I put up on reddit a while back), is simpler. Its that the eggs are trying to tell them the recipe for hatching dragons. That recipe is that you need three human consciousnesses interred in an egg before it can hatch because "the dragon must have three heads" *inside it*. I prefer this version on the basis that it is funnier.
My thinking is that the Targaryen house was not fully aware of the process. There’s never any mention of them using blood sacrifice (except maybe summerhall), no mention of artifacts like the dragon binder horns, no construction of Valyrian steel, or any reference of the actual dragon human cross breeding that made them what they are, only legends and myths. They were always a lesser Valyrian house before the doom. Maybe the extent of their knowledge on the topic is that their blood is part dragon and they have no idea how to maintain its “purity”, other than through incest. My theory is that the Targaryens have little to no actual knowledge of the ancient techniques used to transform the Valyrians from sheep herders to the dragon riding empire. The lack of proper procedure led over time to the smaller deformed dragons. Maesters may have had a hand in ensuring the knowledge was never recovered but they didn’t have to sabotage them any further than that
Hmm, I certainly agree with the first two parts, but not with the third. There is really a sharp decline in dragons'... fertility? health? after the Dance. IMO this could mean that even with their very limited knowledge on the topic the Targaryens knew enough to just keep the dragons going on, but some critical piece of the puzzle was lost during the Dance.
@@8Hshan Good point but they lost a ton of Targaryen’s and dragons during the dance! It wouldve been easier to maintain their steady decline prior to that. Afterwards there are far less dragons, that means less eggs. Maintaining their lizardy Valyrian blood via rudimentary means like incest could have sufficed for a while longer, however lack of knowledge towards the blood rituals used to hatch eggs/bond etc. all of the sudden became a much bigger issue when there weren’t half as many dragons left. Eggs hatching deformed dragons would have far more significant impact than it would have when there were more of them. Not saying that’s the only factor but I think it certainly can be seen as one. Magic waning from the world due to a lack of the ritualistic worship that fueled it being a recurring theme
I think you are absolutely right. Even by the time of the Dance, no dragon came even close to rival Belarion or Vaghar in size, both born over a century ago.
@@lucasbakeforero426 Yes! Belarion and Vaghar were born in Valyria, presumably by blood magicians using those proper rituals and methods. Also no practices like dragon pit
Its pretty obvious how the knowledge could have been lost: aegon the third +his brother viserys were basically the last targaryens left both only children when the dance ended. Too young to have been taught the secrets of dragon hatching. Also the dragon keepers were all killed in the storming of the dragon pit in the book.
So Valyrian nobles (Targaryens), Pyromancers, and Dragon Keepers, each bringing a necessary element to hatch a dragon egg are the three heads of the dragon?
I think the three heads originally are essentially minds in the mind meld. A dragon(which might have been a sacrificed Valyrian to create an original dragon soul) a sacrifice (seemingly killed with fire to hatch the dragon like on Dany's pyre) and then the 3rd head being the rider who tames the wild dragon and makes it a fully powerful beast.
i t hink jeharys used to sing it to vermithor when he rode him, or whatever. but i think i saw somewhere jeharys used to sing it to him. that's why it seems familiar to him. daemon playing 4d chess
Damn this is so good! This *is* the shadow war. Worth adding to this: Marwyn and Co seem to be team Dragonmancer. Aerion Brightflame is wildfire associated and shares the exile prince stuff with Daemon. The Faceless Men are a guild with a mission, and they are the guild of the Alchemist. The FLM have the same "blood sacrifice accounting" vibe. Pay the Red God his due.
I don't disagree with you about "the dragon has 3 heads"being misunderstood, but I'm not sure I totally agree. See, I get stuck on the fact that Dani also had 3 eggs and hatched 3 dragons. Do you think that Dani received 3 dragon eggs because GRRM wanted to throw us off? Or was the prophecy misunderstood by many people of the time so perhaps they were a gift because they also added up to 3 and Master Ilyro read into that as well? I just don't think that we can ignore that there are 3 eggs and then eventually Dani has 3 dragons. I do think you are spot on about the Masters screwing up the knowledge transfer around dragon hatchings. For sure, they played a part. What are your thoughts on the theory that it takes a silver haired Targaryen mother to hatch dragons successfully? I feel like somehow Damon also has that gift, even though he's a man. Maybe the gift isn't sexist and just the Masters were.
I do kinda like the idea of the powerful woman of some sort needed to hatch them because then the sexism and bending to a bad tradition of Westeros would have been the Targaryens screwing over themselves which I feel is very GRRM
Similiar to how the abolishment of the First Night slowly weakened the Night's Watch, I wonder if Targaryen abandonment of inc*st lowered the incidence of lizard babies, thus weakening dragons as well.
They didn’t really abandon incest tho. In the entire dynasty line there’s only 3 times a non-Valyrian woman is the mother of the next generation of kingd. Most of the times when a queen isn’t a Targ, she’s from Lys, she’s a Velaryon or she’s half Targ via her mother, and if the dragon X theory is right, that’s a pretty safe bet. The three women who marry into the royal line are a Martell, a Dayne, and a Blackwood. All with strong links to their own kinds of magic, and house Martell has dragon blood, although weak. I’m not counting women like Alicent Hightower or Aelinor Penrose who ended up not contributing blood to the main ruling line
The whole blood sacrifice thing is very interesting in this lore and it made me think a curious possibility: so the Targaryens obviously have some sort of fire/dragon magic in their blood, so what if death accompanied with birth sort of "boosts" that magic? Like let's take Dany, Jon and Rhaegar. All great Targaryens or about to be. Danys mom died giving birth to her, and so did Lyanna giving birth to Jon. Rhaegar was born at Summerhall while countless people burned to death. What if these deaths are sort of unintentional blood sacrifices that make the magic in the blood of the born babies stronger? What if they can unlock the secrets of magic more naturally and easily because of this? Like Dany in the pyre when her 3 dragons are born and Jon, well, he has both Stark magic and Targaryen magic and is bound to do great things yet. What if birth accompanied by death just happens to boost the magical potency and if conditions are met, these individuals can harness the magic powers in ways normal people can't?
I have a few thoughts: 1. HotD seems to be hammering in the message that the Targaryens don't really control their dragons. Viserys makes a big deal about it to Rhaenyra and Vhagar doesn't obey Aemond. The dragons have a lot of agency as characters in their own right. So Valyrian Blood is more of a marker for the dragons that you are worthy of riding them. 2. It seems clear after season 2 that the reason the dragonkeepers left Rhaenyra was because she betrayed their traditions by allowing the dragonseeds to claim dragons. In which case, the Targaryens are just as much at fault for abandoning the Valyrian traditions when it could give them an advantage in the short term.
My bet is that the Targaryens woke dragons by sacrificing their own children whose consciousnesses went into the dragon eggs. Eggs are put into Targaryen cribs not so that the babies will bond with the hatched dragons, but because babies have high mortality rates in their cribs due to SIDS and the babies are skinchangers who go into the dragon eggs when they die. This explains in part also why the old Daenerys when she was dying of the Shivers was going to have a dragon brought to her by her desperate father - not to heal her, but to have her consciousness maybe go into it because she was dying anyway and he was willing to go to any level not to lose her. And the fetuses could also be going into the dragons when their moms miscarry - or the fetuses being deformed is just a deformity and they looking like dragons is a hint that the dragons are dead babies. I can see the Masters and the Faith going to great lengths to end this practice and hide that it ever existed - or even for them to induce miscarriages through drugs with the rationalization that the babies would be sacrificed anyway if they were born. It also reminds me of Maester Luwin and his weird relationship with the Starks - where they weirdly assign this guy to be Catelyn Stark’s obstetrician when she’s about to give birth who happens to have a Valyrian Steel link in his chain and her sister and so many other women from magical bloodlines have trouble having kids - but Catelyn has lots of strong healthy kids that Luwin seems to care for and even die for (with his blood going into the heart tree). He had a choice between love and duty and he chose love.
I think Targaryen sacrifice for their dragons can be the children they lost who are born like some half human dragon and maybe their funeral pyre. Every Targaryen who die is incinerated by dragon fire. It became a tradition after losing their real meaning. Because Daenerys lost her child to the magic and it was used in the pyre along with the other 2.
I always thought the maesters forcing the acolytes to spend a night trying to light a glass candle was an attempt by the maesters to find the 1-in-a-million people who have the power to use glass candles
Let me get this straight. The "Mad King" is old, frail and has long nails. Married his sister Rhaella and she is also old and has had many still births of babies that were stunted and deformed. So, the king raped her (or sex somehow, they hate each other) and the whole thing went off without a hitch that last time. More likely Dani is a child of someone else.
Well... Aerys wasn't that "old" when he died. He was only 39 or 40 years old and his sister was about 38. The reason behind his hatred was that neither he nor his wife loved each other (even as siblings, there was little to no affection). And, unfortunately, Daenerys is the Mad King's daughter.... :( Jaime Lannister was guarding Rhaella's chamber while she was...you know...this happened very close to the battle of the Trident (Rhaegar's death) and by the time Viserys and his mother were evacuated; Rhaella was already pregnant.
The thing about prophecy is - why do you need to "make it work" by (say) running off with a Stark Lady? If a prophecy is true it shouldn't require you to do anything - "Let Prophecy attend to Prophecy" (Babylon 5) - in fact, just about every prophecy of doom in Greek myth is all about how in trying to fight their fate, various Kings ended up causing it. It's simple hubris (and/or lust!) for Rhaegar to assume that he had to have children with Lyanna Stark. And even if he was right, why did he have to do it the way he did? Why not challenge Robert to a duel for her hand? If the Prophecy is inevitable, he's bound to beat Robert and would that cause the "Robert's" rebellion? Almost certainly not (as the new head of House Baratheon, Stannis probably stays loyal to the Crown, the Starks probably are relatively happy to be married into the Targaryens while the Arryns and Tullys have no real reason to go to war by themselves). Even assuming he was right (and he'd been wrong before about the same prophecy) he went about it in a way that was almost guaranteed to cause the most chaos.
Maybe the maesters put potential candidates with a glass candle, and if they actually light it the maesters kill them for being fire mages. They're actively keeping out people with magical ability.
Miri Maaz Duur's soul isn't in Viserion, it's Daenerys' brother, Viserys. Dany may not intentionally know the secret, but the fact that she named each dragon after the soul that inhabits them suggests her dreams have at least buried it subconsciously for her. Drogo = Drogon Rhaego = Rhaegal Viserys = Viserion
The 3 heads of the dragon are, the dragon, the Targaryens ancestor sacrificed to have their spirit put into the dragon and the dragon rider. Rhaegar defiantly had it wrong. In Valeria they sacrificed a Targaryen, put their spirit in a dragon with magic. The descendent’s of that Targaryen can bond with descendents of that dragon. The song Daemon sings goes with this theory as well as the scene in the tapestry where we see a women being sacrificed in front of a dragon and a human head is put over the dragons head. So they used magic to put the spirit of the sacrificed person into the dragon. After the doom the only dragons left in the world are Targaryens dragons. This is why only Targaryens can bond with dragons. The spell that was done on these dragons has a Targaryen ancestor in them. I also think they did some kind of magic to put dragon dna inside of Targaryens. That’s why they sometimes have dragon/human babies. Rather thus was the same spell that was used to create the dragon bond as I explained above, or a different spell all together, who knows. Now needling a human sacrifice to hatch a dragon egg is a new one on me but I like it. I always thought that the reason Danny needed human sacrifice to hatch her dragons is because she was restarting dragon magic. The ancestor is already in the eggs but to give them life she needed a death for each dragon, drogo, rhaego, and merri mazz dorr. But maybe they did always need a sacrifice to hatch each dragon egg, it’s an interesting idea. Only death can pay for life. I don’t know it’s the first time I’ve heard this one I’ll have to think about it. I like that this would give the maesters one more reason to want to end dragons. But dragons are magic, they were created with magic even before the spell that bound them to riders and maesters hate magic so that’s enough of a reason. I love your ideas, just saw you on LML channel a couple months ago n that’s how I found your channel so I’m new here.
House Targaryen - “Dragons were such majestic and wise beings.” Maesters - “Man fuck dragons. All my homies hate dragons.” The reverence of dragons is a direct inverse correlation to the abundance of dragons.
I think they deliberately destroyed the secrets to maintain their monopoly on dragon power. Which was a horrible decision considering Aegon took his entire conquest to fulfill the song of ice and fire. Ofc I’m just speaking based on the events of the show, we have no idea if the night king will do anything yet.
I think they would have had the knowledge themselves, within the trusted dragon keepers and then hidden within some books and secretly hidden in symbols. All of these things could be taken out over time in theory. But yes the removal of the knowledge also requires taking out some Targs directly at some point
Rhaegar is totally a red herring. Anything we see through the “eyes” of the 3 Eyed Crow is distorted. We were told that the 3EC distorts visions from the very beginning when it distorted Bran’s vision of Jaimie. At most what we see through its eyes can not be trusted. Therefore, I question “The making of the Night King”, I think we will see that the Night King is Jon Snow. Bran’s visions of the Tower of Joy, none of it makes sense> Why would Ned spend time dismantling the tower when he had his sister’s dead body to return to Winterfell and a baby. In the show that last scene of Bran and the 3EC in the courtyard of Winterfell. Lastly, the “marriage” of Lyanna and Rhaegar…. GRRM tells us out right that it is a lie. First of all it is written at the bottom of the page of a journal and only one or two sentences long. It was found in the diary of a maester that kept meticulous records of his bowel movements. Ergo… this diary was full of shti!!!
Raegar seems like a fake.. He's got no legacy, the thing he's best known for is sad songs and leaving his wife to get with another woman for a prophet baby. Someone said it in House of the Dragon: "Words are wind". Raegar feels like a dragon without teeth.
i doubt the maesters had anything to do with death of dragons. you have 3 wild dragons in the wild. two of the dragons are hard to impossible to get to. you have sheepstealer who has dragonrider neetles, possible children of the forest. the other dragon is cannibal. that is one dragon you mess with. so how do you spray or neuter them? if you look, there is hint that children of forest were in on this. i'm thinking of doing a vidoe on this one day.
yeah i know but this dragons could have eggs they can't poison. that my point. you have some that you can't control or stop form having eggs. @@ashleydoll2056
@@championjdg I don't mean to suggest they killed every dragon and made the species extinct or removed the ability worldwide. Just that they made the Targs bad at it. Asshai being able to still have dragons seems like if anything it is proof the ability still exists in the world. Which means you need a reason the Targs lost the ability besides the current Maesters explanation that magic just faded away. The Maesters if this is true are trying to sabotage the dragons in westeros. Also in terms of the possibly surviving dragons I actually do think Cannibal and Sheepstealer could still be out there. It isn't like they wiped them all out, more just that they seem to have undermined the Targaryen ability to use dragons to control Westeros via fire and blood. Also in terms of the Children of the Forest being involved I do agree. I think Bran, thus the COTF would also want dragons gone or mostly gone and that faction might be working toward it in general. Possibly influencing the Maesters or the Targs via visions/dreams. So I am also in on the COTF wanted the dragons gone from westeros. (Perhaps with the exception of Sheepstealer and Cannibal if they are useful to the COTF)
Did you see when Jon Snow birth a dragon? There are two parallel realms the living (fire) and the dead (ice). The spirit of the 3 Eyed Crow leads the realm of the living and the Night King leads the realm of the dead. Dany hatched three living dragons with a dead priestess, wailing and surrounded by fire. Dany, is baptised by fire and emerges unscathed after being consumed by fire. Jon raised a dead dragon with a dead priest, wailing and surrounded by ice. Jon is baptised by ice and emerges unscathed after drowning in ice water. However, it was the Night King not Jon who woke the dragon with his consciousness. I agree that the maesters have interfered with the dragons. This is why the 3 Eyed Crow and the Night King have been plotting to get Dany and Jon to “birth” dragons. I think it was clear that the Night King expected the resurrection of a dragon and even had the chains ready to raise the dragon from the water. The missing parallel link is how and when did the Starks lose their bonds with dire wolves. Just as the 3 Eyed Crow and the Night King manipulated the “births” of Dany and Jon’s dragons. I think that the 3 Eyed Crow sent the first 5 dire wolf pups but it was the Night King who sent Ghost to Jon.
@DD-ok2pt the GOT show shouldn't be used for lore related stuff. It's so far from the books, that it has absolutely nothing lore wise from S4 onwards that could be considered "lore accurate"
I really like your theories but these videos are so slow and you keep repeating the same things over and over again. This might be more my problem than it is yours. I'm two minutes into this one and all you've said is that Rhaegar thought his kids would be the three heads. I feel that it would really help your videos a lot to be more succinct.
In old Valyria, they had fire worms and wyverins. They mixed the two to create the chimera known as a fire breathing, flying dragon using blood magic they mixed genetic markers of certain families with these chimeras, creating human dragon riders. Because they literally have dragon in their blood they occasionally give birth to deformed little dragon, babies. This is the price they pay for being dragon riders. It all comes down to fire and blood~ 🔥🩸
But this is also just your interpretation kind of takin in a way to suit your needs on your narrative, you are very similar to all these Targaryen’s and false interpreting fellows you speak of in that sense lol cause you have no way of knowing what context Daemon was singing that song in, I’m sure many would say it IS about 3 dragon riders and this just confirms that it’s a solidified old prophecy. All in how you perceive things tho I suppose 🦾🥷🏿👍🏿
the intro to the show with the blood flowing from the top of stone temple into the Targaeryen three headed dragon makes so much more sense now!
I think Rhaegar was thinking like a typical Targaryen, "it's all about Me".
And also willing to cause a huge political scandal because he was horny. Maegor, arguably Jaehaerys, Saera, Viserys I, Aegon IV, Jaehaerys II, Aerys, Rhaegar, and that’s just a few of them. All caused significant scandals if not full wars so they could get their rocks off
“Blood magic dragon windows are so out of season rhaenyra “ made me actually LOL. Read it in the actors voice and everything hahaha. This is definitely one of my top 3 favorite ASOIAF channels. Thanks for the content!
Your theory is perfectly in line with the ancient Valyrians being big into blood magic and apparently most if not all of the things they did being rooted in blood/fire magic as well as making the psychic connection between dragon and rider make sense
I'm glad you pointed out the stillbirths playing a role in hatching dragons. My thinking on the situation is that the Targaryen babies that are not only stillborn but twisted and malformed like half dragon hybrids, are the ones who die in order to perpetuate the dragon's own births . I think that this sacrifice must be paid as part of a larger magical "contract" the Targaryen line made with the dragons centuries ago
This is a GREAT point, I always felt like it was more than just "incest gets malformed babies"
well, we always hear about the black cells in the red keep but there also is a fourth level below them which nobody leaves alive ...
I think that there's a good chance that in Old Valyria they would burn their elders alive in order to merge their consiousnesses into dragon eggs. (And maybe explain why they were so large? Stronger bond with the riders?)
It would help explain why the Targaryens burn their dead in funeral pyres and why it's tradition to place an egg in a babies crib. If you incubated grandpa in a dragon egg, there would already be a paternal instinct to protect or bond with that child.
I also think that it's too strange that a bunch of Targaryens have these dragon dreams and do crazy s*** like drink wildfire. If they were near an egg that would probably be enough to merge their consciousness into the egg itself.
I also think that the tragedy at Summerhall was 100% not an accident. Egg did that on purpose to sacrifice Targaryens and hopefully get some eggs to hatch. I'm just curious on how it went wrong, considering it seems like all the conditions were met.
Love your stuff dude! I'm 100% hooked and think you've definitely got a pulse on what's going on in the story.
I fully agree one of the most likely things is the dragon lords stored their dead ancestors in dragons directly as a merged mind like the weirwoods store souls of ancestors. Ice and fire soul storage methods. Glad you like the videos!
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff I've watched David Lightbringer video about this an explaining in the similar way as you the soul of the dragon Lord's are in the dragon an to be awakened
@@cherylbaxter8986Can you link the video? I saw his steam on his theory of HOW the dragons were created but I haven't heard his theory on the souls being merged
I heard someone that thought they missed one part of the ritual, the woodswitch that supposedly died during the tragedy managed to escape the fire, while Dany killed the enslaved maegi in her pyre.
@@blvalverdedunk the lunk screwed house targ over seems egg misjudged his loyalty and underestimated his honor
Interesting thing: "three dragons" what we have in ASOIAF, (Daenerys, Jon Snow and Aegon the Young Griff or "Faegon" as fans call him) are gender inverted from the original conquering Targaryens. All though there's possibility of another secret Targaryen (one theory goes rather than fulfilling spot of "real Targeryen", Young griff is supposed to fill same role as Orys Baratheon did as Aegon the first's half-brother and "real" third dragon is Tyrion Lannister....long story, but Tyrion Targeryen is quite popular theory) the propechy is taken quite a twist.
Not that it already hadn't: Jon born as a boy probably would've given Rhaegar some pause, as Rhaegar had already planned his other two children be reincarnations of original conquerors and Jon was supposed to be Visenya.
This makes me think about current and past real world wars and how much knowledge has probably been lost and how much there may still be covering up.
I like this video, especially the last part about the maesters and just how they helped to wipe out the dragons the first time. However, I have one caveat. You mentioned earlier that there was a mind sending dreams and visions to manipulate people into making choices that fulfill it's own goals. However, I believe it's more than one mind, and that these minds have conflicting goals. It's a metaphysical game of thrones within a game of thrones. Each of these metaphysical players are attempting to achieve an outcome. Some want a second long night. Some want to prevent it. Some don't care one way or another. They have other ambitions. The characters we meet in the books are the pieces, not the players, even when they move the action of the story, many of them are being played on metaphysical level.
I do agree it isn't just one vision sender with one goal. It is a chess match conflict. It might however be a bit of a mind meld making it one sender with multiple goals and a bit of a split personality haha but that will have to be talked about in detail in a future video
This is such a badass theory and I actually hope it's true
Not to belittle your theory but it immediately made me think of the "psychic battle" on South Park where they put a finger to their temple and pretend to attack with mind waves 😂
"I just sent a vision about 3 dragon heads to the targaryens!"
"Oh yeah?! Well I just sent crow dreams to the cripple boy! He's gonna be my special boy!"
"NO HES MY SPECIAL BOY"
I don't see it quite like that, more like they are sending dreams, or controlling animals, putting visions in flames, etc. in hopes of getting people to behave in a certain way. It's no guarantee, which Bloodraven tried to warn Bran about, but it's what's happening behind the scenes.@@Seattletyy93
I know, it is probably irrelevant but Dany, John and Tyrion are third kids in some ways. John is third child of Rhaegar, Dany third living child of Rhaella Targaryen, Tyrion is third child of Joanna Lannister. Also their older siblings are either brutally killed(in case of Dany and John) or destined to be brutally killed(I highly doubt that Jaime outlive Cercei much)
Sorry to break it to ya little one but YG is the real Prince who was promised, he bears the sword.
It makes sense! Blood sacrifices are at the base of all the strongest magic that actually works in these books and the Maesters were against everything that Targaryens stood for from the very beginning.
There are also lost Targaryen tapestries that might contain info- I think House Darry has some. The obsidian daggers are also known as glass candles and can be used to communicate at nighttime. A maester spending the night with a glass candle might receive messages from someone else doing the same (Marwyn?). There might also be something to pricking oneself with the dagger/candle to add blood to the recipe to light it ablaze. Finally, Blackfish’s “obsidian black fish brooch” is also an obsidian dagger and glass candle, so he might be part of this nighttime communion ritual.
I will have to look more into the tapestries. You are totally right that is a perfect place some lost dragon lore could be hidden. I wonder if there is anything like that going on in the show or any detailed descriptions of the actual images on the tapestries from the books...
Also if the daggers aren't glass candles themselves they could certainly be related. They seem like smaller versions of the glass candles from the books. They could be literally them but also if the candles have to be renewed with blood magic from time to time a smaller version of them that had some connection and was constantly used for sacrifices could be a good method to renew the bond.
The fire of the candles could symbolically be the Fire of the Gods, representing Promethean supernatural power
@@JamieEgg-qs9mc Agreed, GRRM has the fire of life and fire of the gods type magic going on in his fire magic for sure. It is capable of making life
A glass candle isn't a dagger an I'll have to look at the Blackfish broach as it's to small to be a glass candle I do think that's how Quaithe is communicating with Danny an Marwyn will bring Daenerys a glass candle with him for her
Also coming back to say I just realized I used the scene in the thumbnail where they are laughing at the idea that Daemon would want to see the new tapestries Alicent put up hahaha so literally a scene where they are hiding dragon knowledge and laughing about it... I will from this moment on pretend that was all planned and on purpose because how much more fitting could it be
If Rhaegar were in an opera, he'd be not only a tenor, but A Tenor(TM).
Dude you’ll be a huge youtuber in no time, greetings from brazil
Daemon is singing to Vermithor because he hasn’t had a rider since Jahaerys died and Vermithor flew back to Dragonstone, and in the decades since, he’s become increasingly more wild during his time there, surrounded by other wild dragons like Sheep Stealer and The Cannibal. But they’re going to need him to be willing to take another rider soon; the Blacks are going to use the dragon seeds or targeryan bastards to significantly increase their number of dragon riders because right now, the Greens and the Blacks are too evenly matched what with Aemond bonded to Vhagar, and Luke and his dragon being killed at the end of Season 1. But the hightowers forget that the Targaryens and Valarions are now settled on dragonstone, which not only has several riderless dragons, wild and otherwise, PLUS the dragons are producing eggs there.
It could be an expression with more than one meaning like "words are wind" and "a Lannister pays his debts." I think your three consciousness theory and its reflection in the Targaryen sigil is right and the sigil has another layer of meaning by representing Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys. Plus Dany's frequently called Aegon the Conqueror come again, Drogon's called Balerion come again, Viserion and Rhaegal are namesakes of Visenya and Rhaenys, there's the allusions to WoT and time being cyclical, so it seems like there are two other people meant to fill similar roles.
Agreed, GRRM loves multiple meaning. I believe the 3 heads is a magic recipe, but the sigil hides the recipe by also representing the 3 conquerors. Then Bran/vision sender of your choice has also warped the meaning to represent something else to make Rhaegar act in the way he wants.
It would be interesting. It very GRRM that Rhaeger brought his own doom to his dynasty with ignorance and misunderstanding of prophecy - like they say how two edged prophecies are in the books. Due to loss of Targaryen culture - the recent Targaryens with no idea about their own people which then allows Dany to reveal and unlock their lost culture in her journey and avoid Rhaeger mistake.
Excellent video! Got your ASOIAF videos recommended this week, almost finished watching all of them. Love your theories
It always seemed strange to me that even in times where there were a lot of dragons and obviously a lot of eggs, the eggs were hatched away from the mother. Yes, naturally reptiles don't always take care of their eggs, but dragons aren't "natural" in every other lore, dragons are very careful with their eggs and protect the nests with their life. So what we have in Valiryan lore then (to englobe HotD and GoT) is either natural reptile behaviour in dragons or the fact that without blood sacrifices, these eggs are unable to hatch.
I watched an interview with GRRM and someone asked him if a blood sacrifice was required to hatch a dragon, and he said something like "I can't answer that, you'll have to wait and find out/read more"
We did it guys, at 7:12 we can see the ultimate equine theory: Rhaegal is a Horse.
Unexpected Glidus reference. 😂
I know that I've read in some comment section somewhere someone trying to do a 1 to 1 with the Targaryen babies that had birth issues and the dragons that were hatched in westeros after they arrived (on dragonstone). I hope that person is here because I know theyve already looked, I wouldnt know where to find it.
The Dance of Dragons. That's what wiped out the dragon lore. I would imagine the dragon keepers died when the dragon pit crumbled and as far as Targaryens with the lore after that war we're with just two young Targaryens one whom would later be known as Dragonbane and hated dragons, is more than happy to see the end of them. It makes me wonder if the War of the Wolves isn't what led to the Starks losing their knowledge but then it could have just been attrition from their many wars.
It’s interesting your input, but if we take it for a fact, then what the heck happened at summer hall? It is theorised that Egg orchestrated the burning in a failed attempt to hatch dragons and that possibly there may have been sacrifices of several people implicated. If he indeed sacrificed people and burnt the whole place along with the dragon eggs, why none of them hatched?
After seeing the video, I still agree more with Preston Jacobs' theory on the hatching of dragons.
We see in Bran's wolf dreams that the fused mind is something different than the wolf and the boy. The dragon must have 3 heads: the dragon, the "dragon" (the Targaryen), & the fused mind.
So the dragonkeepers are sacrificing in order to continually hatch dragons, and the Targaryen line is seeing continual still births qua child sacrifices in order to keep a strong link to the blood magic which allows them to bond with the dragons. When the sacrifices by the dragonkeepers cease, the stillbirths continue. Dragons are also getting smaller and smaller. Are the later hatched, smaller dragons being powered solely by the child sacrifices (which presumably get less and less frequent owing to (1)shrinking of the genetic line and (2) advances in natal science practiced by the maesters)? Does this explain the shrinking dragon phenomenon?
That seems like a timeline and logic that all tracks to me
Curious how laying the eggs comes into play. It does seem like Dreamfyre laid several eggs when Rhaena was happy in love & the same with Syrax / Rhaenyra when she was popping out kids.
The 2 heads to a third sing could be even more simple. My head, the dragons head, and our mind meld being the third. Similiar to how the third eye is explained. Not a literal 3rd eye.
I think "Rhaegar did not know what he was talking about" is a true statement in any context 😂😂
Really good channel man, you deserve a bunch more subs
Re-watching this vid and it made me wonder if the main "point" of the 'storming of the dragonpit' was actually about getting rid of the dragon-tamers
i think the dragons are dead targaryens, but not necessarily just the stillbirths, at least thats not how its supposed to work. I think its ancestors, which is why the bond works, and why they do the incest. basically grandpa dies but gets to haunt a dragon, and recognizes their grandkids so they cooperate. But you need targaryen blood to make it work, so they avoid diluting it, as they don't have full on wizards to refresh the rituals. Dany happens to stumble on, or at least intuit, the correct ritual to hatch new ones, as it requires people who love or are at least beholden to you in order to submit to riding. I also think this is why targs tend to think they'll turn into dragons if they jump in fire or drink napalm or whatever. cause they might, if there are any dragons available to become
I do agree on one level or another there are probably Targ ancestors inside the dragons that recognize and like their descendants. Certainly seems like the most consistent and most GRRM answer to the info we have.
Does that mean that Drogon might literally be Khal Drogo?
@@jasons.2807 Oh dang... yeah maybe?
@michaeltalksaboutstuff makes sense, except we've rarely seen two living targs that don't hate each other at some level, why would ancestors be so fond of distant kin?
@kevinfloyd808 that's actually part of it, I think. It's why the dragons are so picky. Their ability to sense the personality or essence of a prospective targaryen is likely filtered through dragon brain and a few layers of blood magic and a compulsion to serve, but they choose a rider that's compatible with their vibe.
i think the heads of the dragon represents the three sacrifices it took for dragons to be created,hatched and ridden
1st sacrifice was made in old valyria to create them by both bloodmagic and firemagic
2nd sacrifice inorder to hatch them again by both bloodmagic and firemagic(heat with certain songs)
3rd sacrifice by bloodmagic to tame the dragon to a person's will
as for rhaegar,he didn't misinterpret the prophicy,he had a vision of three dragons ridden by 2 men and a woman(i think jon snow will ride rhaegal and bloodraven will ride viserion) therefore he decided to have a second son with a different woman(his wife became barron after aegon's birth)
to fulfill the vision he saw
Hi
I love all the videos you make
It's very deep and realistic
Thank you for your effort to enrich the world of A Song of Ice and Fire🌹
I have some questions regarding the three-headed dragon theory
Do all dragons have to be sacrificed for them to hatch? and What kind of sacrifice?
Would anyone be able to ride a dragon if they knew the secret, or its just the Targaryens hwo can?
is it the knowledge of the secret what makeTargaryens control dragons? This is also supported by what King Viserys said (the idea that we control dragons is an illusion)
So I think the dragons probably require a sacrifice to hatch but the exact kind seems up in the air because Dany can be argued to burn 3 human souls on the pyre but it is also arguable she burns two people and a horse. I kinda think it probably requires human souls.
As far as riding dragons I think the Targs have the ability possibly as a result of being descended from the original souls put into the dragons and therefore there is a legit family connection on some level. So while I think that is incredibly helpful to Targs bonding with their dragons I don't actually really think you NEED to be a Targaryen to do it.
I think the mind meld happening is the thing that allows them control but it is a two way thing meaning the dragons are just as likely to be controlling the rider compared to the rider controlling them.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuffI like the idea of the dragon controlling the rider somewhat as well. Now that Daenerys is developing a fully-formed dragon bond with Drogon, I bet we’ll see her start to exhibit more of his aggression and ferocity which could play a role into her waging war across Essos and willingness to sacrifice innocent people as collateral damage
I’m not sure if I personally think it takes a sacrifice to hatch a dragon but I definitely don’t think it’s unlikely. I think the sacrifice that dany had to make was to bring back the petrified eggs into a hatchable state. I really love Preston Jacob’s theory that dragon riding is an X chromosome linked gene, and to hatch dragons you need two of those genes which is why only women can hatch dragons. And it just so happens at the dance of the dragons there was the possibility of 3 dragon hatchers. I also like this theory because it would likely mean that the Targaryens themselves don’t even understand what it takes to keep their power going and there’s some irony that on top not knowing how to produce more dragons, it’s only the women in this patriarchal world that can produce them.
Great analysis. My version (which I put up on reddit a while back), is simpler. Its that the eggs are trying to tell them the recipe for hatching dragons. That recipe is that you need three human consciousnesses interred in an egg before it can hatch because "the dragon must have three heads" *inside it*. I prefer this version on the basis that it is funnier.
My thinking is that the Targaryen house was not fully aware of the process. There’s never any mention of them using blood sacrifice (except maybe summerhall), no mention of artifacts like the dragon binder horns, no construction of Valyrian steel, or any reference of the actual dragon human cross breeding that made them what they are, only legends and myths.
They were always a lesser Valyrian house before the doom. Maybe the extent of their knowledge on the topic is that their blood is part dragon and they have no idea how to maintain its “purity”, other than through incest.
My theory is that the Targaryens have little to no actual knowledge of the ancient techniques used to transform the Valyrians from sheep herders to the dragon riding empire. The lack of proper procedure led over time to the smaller deformed dragons. Maesters may have had a hand in ensuring the knowledge was never recovered but they didn’t have to sabotage them any further than that
Hmm, I certainly agree with the first two parts, but not with the third. There is really a sharp decline in dragons'... fertility? health? after the Dance. IMO this could mean that even with their very limited knowledge on the topic the Targaryens knew enough to just keep the dragons going on, but some critical piece of the puzzle was lost during the Dance.
@@8Hshan Good point but they lost a ton of Targaryen’s and dragons during the dance! It wouldve been easier to maintain their steady decline prior to that.
Afterwards there are far less dragons, that means less eggs. Maintaining their lizardy Valyrian blood via rudimentary means like incest could have sufficed for a while longer, however lack of knowledge towards the blood rituals used to hatch eggs/bond etc. all of the sudden became a much bigger issue when there weren’t half as many dragons left. Eggs hatching deformed dragons would have far more significant impact than it would have when there were more of them. Not saying that’s the only factor but I think it certainly can be seen as one. Magic waning from the world due to a lack of the ritualistic worship that fueled it being a recurring theme
I think you are absolutely right. Even by the time of the Dance, no dragon came even close to rival Belarion or Vaghar in size, both born over a century ago.
@@lucasbakeforero426 Yes! Belarion and Vaghar were born in Valyria, presumably by blood magicians using those proper rituals and methods. Also no practices like dragon pit
Its pretty obvious how the knowledge could have been lost: aegon the third +his brother viserys were basically the last targaryens left both only children when the dance ended. Too young to have been taught the secrets of dragon hatching. Also the dragon keepers were all killed in the storming of the dragon pit in the book.
So Valyrian nobles (Targaryens), Pyromancers, and Dragon Keepers, each bringing a necessary element to hatch a dragon egg are the three heads of the dragon?
I think the three heads originally are essentially minds in the mind meld. A dragon(which might have been a sacrificed Valyrian to create an original dragon soul) a sacrifice (seemingly killed with fire to hatch the dragon like on Dany's pyre) and then the 3rd head being the rider who tames the wild dragon and makes it a fully powerful beast.
i t hink jeharys used to sing it to vermithor when he rode him, or whatever. but i think i saw somewhere jeharys used to sing it to him. that's why it seems familiar to him. daemon playing 4d chess
fire magic and sacrifice also aligns with the idea that old Valyria used slaves as their sacrifices for creating Valyrian steel.
Damn this is so good! This *is* the shadow war. Worth adding to this: Marwyn and Co seem to be team Dragonmancer. Aerion Brightflame is wildfire associated and shares the exile prince stuff with Daemon. The Faceless Men are a guild with a mission, and they are the guild of the Alchemist. The FLM have the same "blood sacrifice accounting" vibe. Pay the Red God his due.
Yeah but I think the faceless Men opposed the dragon Lords of old Valyria.
I love your channel
I don't disagree with you about "the dragon has 3 heads"being misunderstood, but I'm not sure I totally agree. See, I get stuck on the fact that Dani also had 3 eggs and hatched 3 dragons.
Do you think that Dani received 3 dragon eggs because GRRM wanted to throw us off? Or was the prophecy misunderstood by many people of the time so perhaps they were a gift because they also added up to 3 and Master Ilyro read into that as well? I just don't think that we can ignore that there are 3 eggs and then eventually Dani has 3 dragons.
I do think you are spot on about the Masters screwing up the knowledge transfer around dragon hatchings. For sure, they played a part.
What are your thoughts on the theory that it takes a silver haired Targaryen mother to hatch dragons successfully? I feel like somehow Damon also has that gift, even though he's a man. Maybe the gift isn't sexist and just the Masters were.
I do kinda like the idea of the powerful woman of some sort needed to hatch them because then the sexism and bending to a bad tradition of Westeros would have been the Targaryens screwing over themselves which I feel is very GRRM
At this point, your theories are just Winds of Winter spoilers lol, keep it up
Similiar to how the abolishment of the First Night slowly weakened the Night's Watch, I wonder if Targaryen abandonment of inc*st lowered the incidence of lizard babies, thus weakening dragons as well.
They didn’t really abandon incest tho. In the entire dynasty line there’s only 3 times a non-Valyrian woman is the mother of the next generation of kingd. Most of the times when a queen isn’t a Targ, she’s from Lys, she’s a Velaryon or she’s half Targ via her mother, and if the dragon X theory is right, that’s a pretty safe bet.
The three women who marry into the royal line are a Martell, a Dayne, and a Blackwood. All with strong links to their own kinds of magic, and house Martell has dragon blood, although weak.
I’m not counting women like Alicent Hightower or Aelinor Penrose who ended up not contributing blood to the main ruling line
The whole blood sacrifice thing is very interesting in this lore and it made me think a curious possibility: so the Targaryens obviously have some sort of fire/dragon magic in their blood, so what if death accompanied with birth sort of "boosts" that magic?
Like let's take Dany, Jon and Rhaegar. All great Targaryens or about to be. Danys mom died giving birth to her, and so did Lyanna giving birth to Jon. Rhaegar was born at Summerhall while countless people burned to death. What if these deaths are sort of unintentional blood sacrifices that make the magic in the blood of the born babies stronger? What if they can unlock the secrets of magic more naturally and easily because of this? Like Dany in the pyre when her 3 dragons are born and Jon, well, he has both Stark magic and Targaryen magic and is bound to do great things yet. What if birth accompanied by death just happens to boost the magical potency and if conditions are met, these individuals can harness the magic powers in ways normal people can't?
Daemon, the dragon whisperer
I have a few thoughts:
1. HotD seems to be hammering in the message that the Targaryens don't really control their dragons. Viserys makes a big deal about it to Rhaenyra and Vhagar doesn't obey Aemond. The dragons have a lot of agency as characters in their own right. So Valyrian Blood is more of a marker for the dragons that you are worthy of riding them.
2. It seems clear after season 2 that the reason the dragonkeepers left Rhaenyra was because she betrayed their traditions by allowing the dragonseeds to claim dragons. In which case, the Targaryens are just as much at fault for abandoning the Valyrian traditions when it could give them an advantage in the short term.
My bet is that the Targaryens woke dragons by sacrificing their own children whose consciousnesses went into the dragon eggs. Eggs are put into Targaryen cribs not so that the babies will bond with the hatched dragons, but because babies have high mortality rates in their cribs due to SIDS and the babies are skinchangers who go into the dragon eggs when they die. This explains in part also why the old Daenerys when she was dying of the Shivers was going to have a dragon brought to her by her desperate father - not to heal her, but to have her consciousness maybe go into it because she was dying anyway and he was willing to go to any level not to lose her.
And the fetuses could also be going into the dragons when their moms miscarry - or the fetuses being deformed is just a deformity and they looking like dragons is a hint that the dragons are dead babies.
I can see the Masters and the Faith going to great lengths to end this practice and hide that it ever existed - or even for them to induce miscarriages through drugs with the rationalization that the babies would be sacrificed anyway if they were born.
It also reminds me of Maester Luwin and his weird relationship with the Starks - where they weirdly assign this guy to be Catelyn Stark’s obstetrician when she’s about to give birth who happens to have a Valyrian Steel link in his chain and her sister and so many other women from magical bloodlines have trouble having kids - but Catelyn has lots of strong healthy kids that Luwin seems to care for and even die for (with his blood going into the heart tree).
He had a choice between love and duty and he chose love.
I think Targaryen sacrifice for their dragons can be the children they lost who are born like some half human dragon and maybe their funeral pyre. Every Targaryen who die is incinerated by dragon fire.
It became a tradition after losing their real meaning.
Because Daenerys lost her child to the magic and it was used in the pyre along with the other 2.
I always thought the maesters forcing the acolytes to spend a night trying to light a glass candle was an attempt by the maesters to find the 1-in-a-million people who have the power to use glass candles
ASOIAF books: Shakespeare + tolkein + Lovecraft with unbelievable world building.
ASOIAF shows: Star wars plot fed through medieval incest porn dialogue.
Let me get this straight. The "Mad King" is old, frail and has long nails. Married his sister Rhaella and she is also old and has had many still births of babies that were stunted and deformed. So, the king raped her (or sex somehow, they hate each other) and the whole thing went off without a hitch that last time. More likely Dani is a child of someone else.
Well...
Aerys wasn't that "old" when he died. He was only 39 or 40 years old and his sister was about 38.
The reason behind his hatred was that neither he nor his wife loved each other (even as siblings, there was little to no affection).
And, unfortunately, Daenerys is the Mad King's daughter.... :(
Jaime Lannister was guarding Rhaella's chamber while she was...you know...this happened very close to the battle of the Trident (Rhaegar's death) and by the time Viserys and his mother were evacuated; Rhaella was already pregnant.
The thing about prophecy is - why do you need to "make it work" by (say) running off with a Stark Lady? If a prophecy is true it shouldn't require you to do anything - "Let Prophecy attend to Prophecy" (Babylon 5) - in fact, just about every prophecy of doom in Greek myth is all about how in trying to fight their fate, various Kings ended up causing it. It's simple hubris (and/or lust!) for Rhaegar to assume that he had to have children with Lyanna Stark. And even if he was right, why did he have to do it the way he did? Why not challenge Robert to a duel for her hand? If the Prophecy is inevitable, he's bound to beat Robert and would that cause the "Robert's" rebellion? Almost certainly not (as the new head of House Baratheon, Stannis probably stays loyal to the Crown, the Starks probably are relatively happy to be married into the Targaryens while the Arryns and Tullys have no real reason to go to war by themselves). Even assuming he was right (and he'd been wrong before about the same prophecy) he went about it in a way that was almost guaranteed to cause the most chaos.
Maybe the maesters put potential candidates with a glass candle, and if they actually light it the maesters kill them for being fire mages. They're actively keeping out people with magical ability.
Miri Maaz Duur's soul isn't in Viserion, it's Daenerys' brother, Viserys.
Dany may not intentionally know the secret, but the fact that she named each dragon after the soul that inhabits them suggests her dreams have at least buried it subconsciously for her.
Drogo = Drogon
Rhaego = Rhaegal
Viserys = Viserion
The 3 heads of the dragon are, the dragon, the Targaryens ancestor sacrificed to have their spirit put into the dragon and the dragon rider. Rhaegar defiantly had it wrong. In Valeria they sacrificed a Targaryen, put their spirit in a dragon with magic. The descendent’s of that Targaryen can bond with descendents of that dragon. The song Daemon sings goes with this theory as well as the scene in the tapestry where we see a women being sacrificed in front of a dragon and a human head is put over the dragons head. So they used magic to put the spirit of the sacrificed person into the dragon. After the doom the only dragons left in the world are Targaryens dragons. This is why only Targaryens can bond with dragons. The spell that was done on these dragons has a Targaryen ancestor in them. I also think they did some kind of magic to put dragon dna inside of Targaryens. That’s why they sometimes have dragon/human babies. Rather thus was the same spell that was used to create the dragon bond as I explained above, or a different spell all together, who knows. Now needling a human sacrifice to hatch a dragon egg is a new one on me but I like it. I always thought that the reason Danny needed human sacrifice to hatch her dragons is because she was restarting dragon magic. The ancestor is already in the eggs but to give them life she needed a death for each dragon, drogo, rhaego, and merri mazz dorr. But maybe they did always need a sacrifice to hatch each dragon egg, it’s an interesting idea. Only death can pay for life. I don’t know it’s the first time I’ve heard this one I’ll have to think about it. I like that this would give the maesters one more reason to want to end dragons. But dragons are magic, they were created with magic even before the spell that bound them to riders and maesters hate magic so that’s enough of a reason.
I love your ideas, just saw you on LML channel a couple months ago n that’s how I found your channel so I’m new here.
This dragon math/melded consciousness seems very GRRM to me.
One head is the dragon head, the second is the one of whoever was sacrificed, the third is the rider’s.
Algormancy!
House Targaryen
- “Dragons were such majestic and wise beings.”
Maesters
- “Man fuck dragons. All my homies hate dragons.”
The reverence of dragons is a direct inverse correlation to the abundance of dragons.
I think you're right but prophecies can be made hundreds of years in advance. Perhaps the song's writer wrote it to have a double meaning.
Its possible the dragonglass daggers have some magic ritiual but with hotd season 2 its just their method of suicide if the dragons ever burn them
Dragonglass daggers, you say? Where?
You would think when they went to dragonstone they would have taken some secrets with them
I think they deliberately destroyed the secrets to maintain their monopoly on dragon power. Which was a horrible decision considering Aegon took his entire conquest to fulfill the song of ice and fire. Ofc I’m just speaking based on the events of the show, we have no idea if the night king will do anything yet.
Dragon born 😂
I don't think the targaryens would depend on other people to guard the knowledge of dragon egg hatching
I think they would have had the knowledge themselves, within the trusted dragon keepers and then hidden within some books and secretly hidden in symbols. All of these things could be taken out over time in theory. But yes the removal of the knowledge also requires taking out some Targs directly at some point
He made vermithor think he was special so he didn't eat him.. duh!!
Unpopular opinion: if the Maesters and the Hightowers were consciously trying to kill off all the dragons, they were right
The dragon baby miscarriages are the critical sacrifice I think.
Lets go Algorithm ❤🎉❤ July 2024
gots whole plot is basically pass the sentence lol
Rhaegar was a jerk and Lyanna was a hypocrite
consciousness of the rider, consciousness of the dragon......they merge together as one.......3 heads....
There sure are a lot of narcissists using their supposed dreams to justify their lousy behavior.
In a world where chivalrous knights are rapists and murderers I want to see Rhaegar's narcissist ass visions and speculations fall into pieces
Rhaegar is totally a red herring. Anything we see through the “eyes” of the 3 Eyed Crow is distorted. We were told that the 3EC distorts visions from the very beginning when it distorted Bran’s vision of Jaimie. At most what we see through its eyes can not be trusted.
Therefore, I question “The making of the Night King”, I think we will see that the Night King is Jon Snow. Bran’s visions of the Tower of Joy, none of it makes sense> Why would Ned spend time dismantling the tower when he had his sister’s dead body to return to Winterfell and a baby. In the show that last scene of Bran and the 3EC in the courtyard of Winterfell.
Lastly, the “marriage” of Lyanna and Rhaegar…. GRRM tells us out right that it is a lie. First of all it is written at the bottom of the page of a journal and only one or two sentences long. It was found in the diary of a maester that kept meticulous records of his bowel movements. Ergo… this diary was full of shti!!!
@DD-ok2pt I'm more than certain Ned even remembers dismantling the Tower of Joy back in AGOT, when he's having those dreams.
@@SpiritStoneWarrior94-yx3gs That is my point Ned’s “fevered dreams” are a distortion.
Raegar seems like a fake.. He's got no legacy, the thing he's best known for is sad songs and leaving his wife to get with another woman for a prophet baby.
Someone said it in House of the Dragon: "Words are wind". Raegar feels like a dragon without teeth.
i doubt the maesters had anything to do with death of dragons. you have 3 wild dragons in the wild. two of the dragons are hard to impossible to get to. you have sheepstealer who has dragonrider neetles, possible children of the forest. the other dragon is cannibal. that is one dragon you mess with. so how do you spray or neuter them? if you look, there is hint that children of forest were in on this. i'm thinking of doing a vidoe on this one day.
Theres a theory the maesters poisoned sone of the eggs. Not the dragons themselves.
yeah i know but this dragons could have eggs they can't poison. that my point. you have some that you can't control or stop form having eggs. @@ashleydoll2056
removing knowledge of the proper way to do a hatching ritual sounds a lot like poisoning eggs
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff so if that is true why are there dragons in asshai?
@@championjdg I don't mean to suggest they killed every dragon and made the species extinct or removed the ability worldwide. Just that they made the Targs bad at it. Asshai being able to still have dragons seems like if anything it is proof the ability still exists in the world. Which means you need a reason the Targs lost the ability besides the current Maesters explanation that magic just faded away. The Maesters if this is true are trying to sabotage the dragons in westeros.
Also in terms of the possibly surviving dragons I actually do think Cannibal and Sheepstealer could still be out there. It isn't like they wiped them all out, more just that they seem to have undermined the Targaryen ability to use dragons to control Westeros via fire and blood.
Also in terms of the Children of the Forest being involved I do agree. I think Bran, thus the COTF would also want dragons gone or mostly gone and that faction might be working toward it in general. Possibly influencing the Maesters or the Targs via visions/dreams. So I am also in on the COTF wanted the dragons gone from westeros. (Perhaps with the exception of Sheepstealer and Cannibal if they are useful to the COTF)
Did you see when Jon Snow birth a dragon?
There are two parallel realms the living (fire) and the dead (ice).
The spirit of the 3 Eyed Crow leads the realm of the living and the Night King leads the realm of the dead.
Dany hatched three living dragons with a dead priestess, wailing and surrounded by fire. Dany, is baptised by fire and emerges unscathed after being consumed by fire.
Jon raised a dead dragon with a dead priest, wailing and surrounded by ice. Jon is baptised by ice and emerges unscathed after drowning in ice water. However, it was the Night King not Jon who woke the dragon with his consciousness.
I agree that the maesters have interfered with the dragons. This is why the 3 Eyed Crow and the Night King have been plotting to get Dany and Jon to “birth” dragons. I think it was clear that the Night King expected the resurrection of a dragon and even had the chains ready to raise the dragon from the water.
The missing parallel link is how and when did the Starks lose their bonds with dire wolves. Just as the 3 Eyed Crow and the Night King manipulated the “births” of Dany and Jon’s dragons. I think that the 3 Eyed Crow sent the first 5 dire wolf pups but it was the Night King who sent Ghost to Jon.
There is no Night King in the first 5 books.
@@andrewb2156 I was referencing the show as there is no resurrecting of a dragon in the books.
@DD-ok2pt the GOT show shouldn't be used for lore related stuff. It's so far from the books, that it has absolutely nothing lore wise from S4 onwards that could be considered "lore accurate"
@@SpiritStoneWarrior94-yx3gs GRRM was consulting that seasons
I really like your theories but these videos are so slow and you keep repeating the same things over and over again. This might be more my problem than it is yours. I'm two minutes into this one and all you've said is that Rhaegar thought his kids would be the three heads. I feel that it would really help your videos a lot to be more succinct.
Danny needs 2 people with Valaryion blood to be able to bond with a dragon Jon is one the 3rd not sure yet
I think it's Young Griff/Aegon potentially
In old Valyria, they had fire worms and wyverins. They mixed the two to create the chimera known as a fire breathing, flying dragon using blood magic they mixed genetic markers of certain families with these chimeras, creating human dragon riders. Because they literally have dragon in their blood they occasionally give birth to deformed little dragon, babies. This is the price they pay for being dragon riders. It all comes down to fire and blood~ 🔥🩸
But this is also just your interpretation kind of takin in a way to suit your needs on your narrative, you are very similar to all these Targaryen’s and false interpreting fellows you speak of in that sense lol cause you have no way of knowing what context Daemon was singing that song in, I’m sure many would say it IS about 3 dragon riders and this just confirms that it’s a solidified old prophecy. All in how you perceive things tho I suppose 🦾🥷🏿👍🏿
Lets go Algorithm ❤🎉❤ July 2024
Lets go Algorithm ❤🎉❤ July 2024
Lets go Algorithm ❤🎉❤ July 2024