How Relationism is Changing Football
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
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Relationism is an emerging philosophy that changes the way a team is structured on the pitch. In it’s essence, it embrases the chaos of a match, but to help clarify why it’s so unique, it’s important to understand what the current most used set up is.
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RESOURCES AND LINKS:
IS POSITIONAL PLAY COMING TO AN END (ANTONIO GAGLIARDI): / is-the-era-of-the-posi...
WHAT IS RELATIONISM (JAMIE HAMILTON) / what-is-relationism
/ stirling_j
www.itsjustasport.com/article...
/ dangerous-provocations
lagabbiadiorrico.com/2023/03/...
www.ja606.co.uk/articles/view...
Thank you @maxmoyer for the suggestion and help with getting started on this idea!
#relationism #dinizismo #fluminense #brazil #tactics #soccer #football #relazionismo
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Funny how in Brazil people compare Diniz to Guardiola just because his teams are characterized by having a lot of possession, but in the end they are polar opposites. Thanks for this mind-opening analysis!
This comparison was common when Diniz appeared, it's been a while since I've seen someone saying that
@@lhenri3724 po mano eu torço pro Flu e vejo isso toda hora 🤣
@@JVRD27 quem é guardiola comparado com o diniz, quantos cariocas tem o guardiola?
proprio diniz ja falou que le nao tem nada haver com guardiola
actually Abel is most frequently compared to pep
If relationism gains popularity given that it's heavily dependent on the individual's talent and capabilities could we see the oldschool playmakers like Özil, Riquelme, Kaka again?
I hope so, I miss the classic playmaker lol
I guess it’s inevitable. In Brazil, some clubs still play with a classic playmaker, and they’re all functional play teams. The point is that the players with these characteristics are still there, but they don’t have a role in positional play. Functional play allows the manager to prepare the squad based on the players characters, instead of just using a pre-made formula.
I hope so,
Yes 100%. Automated drills and matches ruin the fun.
@@FootballMeta Hear hear. Great vid btw, thanks.
This video was well timed. Diniz was announced as the Brazil manager until Ancelotti joins.
well that was lucky 😂
I think Ancelotti will not join our national team. But Diniz is a pretty good headcoach. With him, Brazil can perform a very good football again... The style that turns our style so popular around the globe decades ago.
@@edsonsilva-id1sx he just can't win
@@edsonsilva-id1sx Ancelotti was officially announced to join next year or so. Diniz is good but most players who have worked with him do complain about his behavior and how rude he is, player "Tchê Tchê" who is currently playing for Botafogo developed depression during his time in São Paulo when Diniz was the coach after being heavily judged and critized unnecessarily. Diniz isn't a bad coach and his tactics would definitely get Brazil far in a World Cup but I don't believe it would be good for the players.
@@Arthuriosity how so? apart from tchê tchê, every single player that has ever worked with diniz is in love with him to this day. most say that diniz is the kindest and best coach they have ever worked with in the human sense. palmeiras is almost unanimously regarded as the most dominant team in south america rn and their best player openly attributes his success to how diniz got him to seek therapy - something that (unfortunately) is still a huge taboo in the context of brazilian football
the situation with tchê tchê was definitely terrible - but it's a bit reckless to disregard how close diniz and tchê tchê were since audax; how diniz openly says he apologized and even cried for what he did; how this case is a drop in the ocean and mainly how famous he is for being a coach who is especially considerate of his players
diniz is certainly not perfect, although he has improved a lot. he's still stubborn, a lil bit too attached to his system, etc. but it's pretty undeniable that he's probably the most compassionate coach in all brazilian football
I would add just one thing, relationism is not just a method inside the game, but also a philosophy of life. Renato Gaúcho, Fernando Diniz and Anceloti all said in interviews how they like to work closely with their players, to give them freedom and space inside the clubs, hang out with them after games, get involved into their lives, in short, become friends.
i mean arteta seems very involved in the players life. but he is very strict when it comes to the onfield stuff.
it's stupidity. it's not a philosophy of life. Ancelotti is different from those brazilian coaches. It's just desperate attempt by some american tactical "gurus" to invent new style, new "philosophy" because they are sick and tired of Pep, I guess. lol. All they talk about, all this relationism nonsense smells like New Age nonsense. How coaches talk to players, hang out with them. LOL. Ancelotti barely hangs out with players. He failed at Bayern and Everton. And Napoli. So he didnt hang out with those players or what? Ancelotti just relies on individual quality and defensive tactics and less on structure in possession. Thats all. Such coaches have been around since forever. Look at Nico Kovac. Isnt he good relationist? But for some reason those relationism fanatics dont rush to take Kovac in their camp. lol. Or Terzic from BVB. Isnt he good relationist? He relies on improv in attack, not aware of any positional play, and is good pal with all players. But I dont hear relationist gurus mentioning Terzic.
Very interesting view. It makes total sense. MSN is kin to this. These guy had an immaculate connection on and off the field. Enrique gave them almost all three a free role position, with more emphasize on Messi. All three are South American and depend a lot on their individual talent and skill set.
It makes sense to me that this style of play really would benefit from close relationships off the field. Friends are more easily able to playfully experiment with different little moves and tactics they might try in a game. Cold rivals will criticize something different, and so they only give each other what they have come to expect.
Renato Gaucho, vai tomar nozói, assiste 2 jogos seguidos do gremio pra tu ver se o renato é tudo isso mesmo.
Here in Brazil we usually call this relationism "Jogo Funcional" (Functional Play), given that the players don't actually guard or focus on their positions, rather on their functions within a system. CBF calls it "Jogo de Aproximação" (Approximation Play), noting that for a relationist style of football to work, players tend to approximate one another in order to allow said relations. It's not anything new, by any means, and quite recently (2019) Jorge Jesus' Flamengo reigned sovereign in Brazil and South America with similar functional play. Renato Gaúcho also coached Flamengo in 2021, and reached the Libertadores Final also playing similar functional play. And Diniz himself had quite a bit of success in recent years with São Paulo's limited squad, fighting for a Brasileirão title nearly till the end.
I firmly believe that, given a complete squad, unhindered by injuries and limited options, Diniz COULD really shine in Brazil. And hopefully he'll shine with the Seleção! However he lacks repertoire and creativity to mix things up when they're not going his way. In the last 12 matches, he only won 2, and is being heavily criticized for this lack of repertoire, with some saying his teams play one way and only that way, so when other teams start to figure it out, his teams burn out. We'll see how the year goes, Fluminense has had a somewhat bad patch with injuries recently, but they're still alive in Copa Libertadores and are in 6th in Brasileirão.
Acho que ele tá tirando leite de pedra do Fluminense. Claro que tem jogador com muita qualidade tipo Cano, Ganso, André. Mas o que ele fez com Fábio, Samuel Xavier, outros outros é incrível.
Great comment. I'd like to add that the lack of repertoire Diniz is displaying right now is actually a great quality that Renato Gaúcho already possesses. Grêmio started the league this year with lots of injured players and went through a rough sequence of matches, playing very poorly even with Suárez in form. However, Renato was quick enough to make some changes that rebalanced the team. As a result, Grêmio currently sits in 2nd place and is playing very well and competitively. It's not a perfect team, of course, but they have tactical alternatives that fit their playing style. I hope and cheer for Diniz to become a little more pragmatic and expand his repertoire now that he has landed his dream job with the Seleção.
If you watched the vid you would see he mentioned functional play
@@H3c171 i did watch the video and my commentary doesn't discredit or contradicts it.
Just remember Diniz never had a top squad in his hands. Current Fluminense team salary is ranked 10th in Brasileirao, while that Sao Paulo was 7th. The fact he managed to place those teams among the top of the league is a feat in itself. He never had the kind of 20+ million salary squads like Palmeiras and Flamengo do for years now. The Brazil national team will be the first time he has such talent at his disposal.
Chaosness is way more exciting than playing with a specific shape imo. 😂
+1
watch lazio play sarriball i m telling you its better than chaos
No
I’m guessing you prefer Jürgen to Pep
that is true mainly when isnt your team that plays this way
I reckon relationism always existed, but the patterns of this style of play are rarer, because teams defend more disciplined and in a very compact manner. Thanks to your video, I just noted that the greatest Real Madrid goals of the last decade are often relationist.
That explains the need for high quality players at rm
100%, I've been watching Real Madrid since 1994 and this has been the philosophy for many eras since. People accuse Real Madrid of having no tactical identity... Well, no, you just haven't been paying attention - chaos is an identity in itself and for Madrid many times it has often been a premeditated choice. Madrid attacking in unstoppable waves with Redondo leading a charge or later the galácticos was not dissimilar to styles of play seen in many of the 2010's CL runs. The best players in the world know how to self-organize even if they've been brought up in academies. I think the current generation of midfield is actually being built with this philosophy in mind - talented but very physical players who can shift positions, overload, and tilt quickly in the face of also physical (increasingly so) but rather positional teams. People say that Bellingham, Camavinga, Tchouaméni, Valverde look nothing like KCM but that may have been the plan all along. I was also one to say that I could not see how, should he come, Mbappé might play with Vini but now I think they will be perfectly fine self-organizing in tight spaces around the left.
@@brickpooperanother philosophy is shady offside and penalty calls in their favour
@@iit5530😂
@@iit5530 Yes, it's all a conspiracy by UEFA and the ghost of Francisco Franco, you just need to learn to live with it.
i have the impression that "functional" style of play is better for knockouts in general, like the champions or the World Cup, while positional style is better for leagues, where total points defines the winner. But that is just an impression
I have observed the very same thing
Fluminense and Diniz won yesterday the Libertadores da América, the Champions League of South America
I agree with you; relationalism doesn’t work in Europe, where players are raised to follow a structure.
However, in Brazil, relationalism could be the key to bringing back the Selecao to the top. The main strength of the Brazilian players is improvisation. They need a system that allows improvisation and takes the most advantage of it.
This style of play brought back PH Ganso from the football scrap heap. Awsome player but tactics evolved and made him irrelevant but he's back. I'd like to see more players like him
Exato Ganso é crack, um talento do nível do Neymar, infelizmente a lesão em 2011 o tornou mais lento do que já era, e o estilo de jogo na Europa exige velocidade....se ele tivesse um bom ritmo de jogo, pode ter certeza que ele estaria acima de De Bruyne(estilo diferente) e de Modric nesta era
Ole gunnar solskjaer had a similar philosophy at Man utd. He wasn't concerned with positional structure but more concerned about the combinations and partnerships among players themselves and how to get the quality players in their most dangerous zone.
That's why rashford and martial had a good partnership under him and bruno had 46 goals plus assists in his first full season.
It's a shame the British media assassinated his career
Yep, ultimately he couldn't bring in enough quality to keep the momentum going and to raise the team's technical floor, so when it stopped producing results the players had nothing to fall back on and it collapsed like a house built on sand.
Solskjaer's in-game tactical changes and substitutions were his kryptonite, he just couldn't get those right.
@@cyn1clcynide His bench options weren't very good though, that was a big part of why he failed. Many of us said it all along, he'll live and die by the players he trusts.
@BenMcManus Lol, he had the money; spent it on Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo. The main issue with Solskjaer was, he relied solely on individual brilliance. His team lacked cohesion and especially balance between both phases.
I think additionally, he didn't have the personality to manage a big club like United.
If you rewatch the last France - Greece match you'll see how its already started seeping in Europe. Fluminense are doing a massively inspired thing by syncronising Brazilian football in the now. Making space irrelevant by tilting and defining vertical lines as a gestalt and not through rotations or positions, is a radical break from Cruyffian tactics.
Would you agree that relationism is a good tactic against teams with a very defensive and destructive approach?
@@eviljared11 i cant make the comparison, rly. i think that the tilting approach in general will result in more swarming tactics in the defensive end. On the other hand, we are in the most technical era ever. Deep balls and aerial prowess are top-notch everywhere you look, I cannot imagine how space irrelevance would fare against the bastards of catenaccio xD In relationism we must never forget the power of creation. It's not about what we analyse as relationsism, it's about what the players realise on the field through their football iq. Charging up the left and leaving your wingers roaming free to the right might result in a mixture of Fluminense and Beckham-esque creative action. Who's gonna guard the next generation's Sakas and Mbappes if they act like wide receivers? Really interesting question; I'll think deeply about it.
Actually Cruyff himself loved chaos and individual qualities, it is more Pep who has transformed his basic ideas into a a mathematical exercise.
"Making space irrelevant"
Yeah good luck with that.
@@rulifaller8474 as true as that is, Cruyff was all about space, and explicitly said players should not play close to each other ("you want to help your teammate so you move towards him, but you don't help him that way, you should move to the open space" he said, if i remember correctly). But I agree he did appreciate chaos and individualism more than todays extreme positionists)
Thats how we played football growing up. Not just on the streets even in 11-v-11 turfs...Basic 442 (based on roles rather than positioning) and just uhmm... chaos if I may also call it that...As always great video❤
The attacking plays you demonstrated seem to generate from moments of transition or to put it simply, when the opposing team is pressing. I can't think of how the extreme version of relationism will play out against low blocks. But if it is used as the "slightly slowed down" version of a counter attack it could have a chance of really disrupting European football...
@@alwymitch2980
6:59 Is that "low block" enough for you ?
Hey, could elaborate what you mean by when you “based on roles rather than positioning”.
@@Press_Eleven Think of Coutinho's "playmaking" role. On paper he has been positioned as a winger, as an eight etc. But he still does coutinho things.(playmaking) Its football based on individual freedoms and abilities rather than strict positioning 'rules'...not the most effective but really fun. You'd find scorelines like 6-4, 7-5, or even going to double digits in a single game🤣
Give Jamie Hamilton his flowers! I keep coming back to his beautifully written Medium article.
I think you're right about thinking to the Brasilian national team at the end. Relationism philosphies should be in struggle in the major europeans leagues and UCL. But for the international tournaments and football of selections, it could be a very refreshing surprise that leads to enthousastic successes for Brasil or other teams. A versus in world cup with very sophisticated defensive structures like Morocco did last year could be astonishing !
Encouragements from France ! Hope you'll talk about the women's World Cup this summer !
Some great insight !
With Ancelotti reported to become the Brasil NT manager in 2024, players like Vini, Rodrygo on the rise, we could see more of this soon enough.
@@manwhoasked5942and until Ancelotti isn't available Fluminense's Diniz will coach both Fluminense and the national team
As a Brazilian, I appreciate the last segment. You allude to how based on cultural differences, players will find it easier to play in different systems (I.e. positional vs relationst based on where/how they grew up). Feel like there’s been a notion of positional football being the right and only way to play due to the successes in Europe without realizing it may not be the best in other areas of the world or for certain types of footballers. Thanks for shedding light on relationism and how it’s not inherently the better way to play but rather a system’s success depends on the players themselves regardless If it’s positional or relationist.
Just have seen this video currently. To be honest: almost all aspects of relationism and its ideas remind me of fundamental aspects of Futsal. Maybe that's the reason it is so popular in South America.
1.) You have toce y me voy which resembles the rotations in Futsal.
2.) You have tabela with number 9 which resembles the pivot play.
3.) You have escadinhas which exist like this in Futsal very often in build up.
The resemblance in all these aspects was really eye-opening 🙂
actually diniz inspires some of his practices and drills in futsal drills, futsal is a huge part of the formation of a player in brazil, as well as beach football and street football.
I hope Diniz's style works for the Brazilian national team and the style inspires other coaches
Youth football coach here. And I've been using this concept for the past 3 years, but not in the way that it's now gaining attention for. The reason why the game has evolved into a Positional style in Europe is because of the culture, history, development and capability of players & teams to defend in a very intense way (also made possible by cooler European climates). Thus the European game has developed in such a way as to spread players as far as possible in order to discourage defensive players from man-marking, which has in turn led to the rise of fitter and more athletic defenders who can cover more ground. And this is the reason why Relationism won't catch on in most of Europe in the same way - because defenders here are more physical and more aggressive and intense and will shut down this style of play. However.... There is a way to implement Relationism in the European game, and it is to use it in a Defensive manner by clustering majority of the defending team's players into the area of the pitch where the ball is in order to initiate a full-team press in a very similar way to how some American basketball teams carry out full team presses. In European football, this is already a well established idea with the flood pressing of the Dutch National team in the 70s on one end of the spectrum and the more limited gegenpressing of Klopps Dortmund & Liverpool teams on the other end of the spectrum. Seen this way, Defensive Relationism (as it may be called) would be the most natural extension & application of this idea in European football, with more players in the defending team squeezing down the pitch into a smaller zone in order to press the space as well as the player on the ball. Inevitably though, this will lead to the rise of more Beckham style players who can switch the play with long balls like NFL quarterbacks to fast sprinters like NFL wide receivers. This is arguably what happened when Leicester won the Premier League as their style that season (avoiding pitch squeezes with quarterback to fast receiver style tactics) marked the then decisive victory of positional play over close-quarter combat. So, for Relationism to work in Europe, it will have to become "Defensive Relationism" ie. used in defensive phases only, in combination with a fast positional-focused transition when in the attacking phase. This works remarkably well at junior level. But to execute this, a team effectively needs all players to be able to outsprint the other team as in essence it becomes a game of who can move between transitions the quickest!
What an amazing concept, pu.2665. Thank you for the great read.
@@-shikajin-4078position play have certain key play who are afforded freedom in certain formation like Stryker, AM, winger in a 4-2-3-1 with DM and Defense being tired down to one portion
Why do you assume.that quality attackers won't out smart defenders in this way. This style is more complex and much less predictable to defend than a very rigid structure with wide players on the touch lines etc.
@@joblakelisbon Exactly what i thought. Fitter and stronger defenders just mean they can follow the play, but not exactly that they can properly defend against unpredictable movements, deceiving passes and moves. Also, a stronger defender will most likely be penalized more due to the higher chance to perform failed tackles on players without the ball (normally on 1-2 situations).
Hi coach,
I've been implementing a relational approach with my under-6s team, aiming to foster cooperation and teamwork. However, I'm exploring the idea of introducing dialectical methods and existential thought: instead of merely focusing on winning, I want to encourage the team to question, engage in dialogue, and make their own meaningful contributions to the game. In doing so, we're not just refuting the goals of the opposing side, but also actively creating our own narrative on the field.
I'm not sure if this is ironic or not
Hi Cameron, you really are at the forefront of player development. How existential are the thoughts your team are having? for it to really be effective, I would suggest at least one player per week has an existential crisis, that way you are really getting through to them! creating your own narrative is an excellent tactic in the modern game, it's interesting to hear its making it's way into football of all places, great work!
@@renanfilipe7459 why would it be lol?
Yeah mate, I'd totally recommend looking into how Sartre states that existence precedes essence and importantly explain Hegel's concepts of unity and interconnectedness especially in a dialectical sense
Just let them have fun plant pot
Really interesting. Scaloni being a relation-ist makes sense. He is more of a manager than a coach. The players totally respect him and understand that Scaloni and Messi are the two top guys. Though his system has structure, its is definitely true that Messi has the free role to do anything and link up with everyone as long as the rest of the team is solid in structure.
Also, the closing point about South American kids grow up in the streets depending a lot more on their individual talent and creativity is true. Perhaps its a reason why Enrique's MSN Barcelona was so fluid. MSN's chemistry was so natural on and off the field, all three had a somewhat of a free role position, mainly Messi as the main man. The rest of the team had structure defensively and retaining possession.
I didn't even know about this philosophy and ideology, got to know about it from purist football channel and honestly i was thinking of creating a similar style few months ago where football style of the team is chaotic but it creates patterns which are very improvised, happen at the moment and not again in similar pattern which has an unpredictability factor for the opposition. It can be unpredictable, chaotic but fun, i hope this style makes it big and brings back that creativity lacking in football. We need football to diversify and not have similar approaches, that is boring for me. I like football when it has different approaches. If everyone went with positional style id be boring for me. Thanks for the video, u explained amazingly and helped me understand the style more.
I highly agree! Glad you enjoyed the vid!
Relationism is something very natural here in Brazil. Everyone have some pitch or play football on the streets. Dribble is the key to detroy the opposition lines.
This Anceloti's Real often shows some degree of relationism, but just when the ball is at the left side of the field, where Vinicius plays. The right area stays more set back, and it's winger plays almost as a middle fielder, to thrive on the "chaos" at the left
It's kinda the opposite. Have a look at Vini's goal in the CL final - they congest the right side to open up the space on the left for Vini to do his thing. It's tougher though against teams that park the bus and hack Vini or others, playing on the counter. It probably happens more in Europe and against Barsa.
This relationism doesn’t work in Europe
@@abody499 You're wrong, Valverde simply shot a cross that he didn't expect to be a goal from Vinicious, plus they neglected Vini.
Madrid has no strategies, depending on Vinicius is not tactical.
@@asm7406 Militao, Alaba, and Mendy were in the space while Modric ignored them and passed it into the crowded right flank to Carvajal who draws 3 towards him and passes it to Casemiro who puts it down the flank to Valverde who runs in and crosses to Vinicius who was so alone that he had the time to have a bit of banter with Klopp on the sideline before running in and meeting the cross to win the 14th and inflict a lot of pain, amirite?
Have a look at the baño in the Camp Nou 0-4 for iirc goals 2/3/4 - same idea. I remember how long a wait it was for the 7th, but there has been no sweeter than the 14th. What pain it caused. So sweet, like merengue.
@@asm7406 And please expand on this claim that "they neglected Vini". In reality, while the press were questioning his ability for a year and a half - he wasn't questioned for the first 18 months - saying that they'd be better off selling him, the club never once entertained any transfer talk, and that was with Leonardo trying to get him in a deal for Mbappe. Not once did the club lose faith in him. They always believed and supported him. I admit that I personally thought that it would be best if they sold him and got Mbappe instead, as he just looked like he had no touch, but obviously I didnt see him in training every day. Not ashamed to admit I personally was wrong about that and in future when I hear people like Ramos say things like "Vini is the future", I'll take their word for it.
I think the patch for Brazil to win a World Cup again could be either relationism or positionism, there's no wrong answer here, but relationism is our identitiy, just like you said that's the way kids play on the streets. So, even believing that both styles could be succesful, I prefer much more to see the national team playing in a relationism system, it feels more brazilian, it is easier to identify myself in the team when they play like that, in the end that's the reason why the world know us as a team that play beautiful football so it seems more poetic to return to our glory days like that.
Great analysis. I prefer teaching Relationism, and I think most youth players should be taught in this way. It is easy to teach older players how to stand in their positions. Special players can solve the problems of the game without the manager, and it starts with the kids U6-U13.
Watching the game in the Maracanã standings can blow your mind. The team, time and time again, retains the possession of the ball for minutes, waiting for the adversary give enough space to try to score.
International basketball trends has also moved towards chaos (players reading and reacting). I went to a basketball clinic in May where the technical director of Australia basketball talked about how spacing and concepts are dominating over the typical north american (NBA, NCAA, US high school) styles of pick and roll, isolation and mismatch offenses.
I think the best example of this is Canada basketball, where we have the most players represented in the NBA (after the US of course), but still struggle internationally. To the casual Canadian, it's because "well we never have our best players playing together." As a long suffering Canada basketball fan, this shouldn't even matter anymore because Canada has depth in its program compared to dark era of the 2000s and early 2010s. A lot of our pros who went through the North American route to the NBA have struggled internationally whereas some of the Canadians who have played overseas or in the typical FIBA powerhouse nations have always had a place on the national team for FIBA Americas or Worlds. The casual Canadian wouldn't even be able to tell you who these players are, where they came from and where they play because they're not flashy, making viral plays, or aren't in video games. But those players have key international basketball concepts in their DNA.
This is going to be the big trend in sports for the next 2 decades. Coaches who can breath this philosophy will find success coaching, whether it's youth, teenagers, or professional. Young kids don't want to play in structures or be overcoached by adults who think they're better than everyone else when they're not. They want to play, and then they want to play, and then they want to play some more. So let them play; practice the basic principles of success of your sport and give 1-2 concepts where players can use their creativity/IQ and thrive in their strengths. I see 12-14 year olds play basketball who are waaaaay better than i ever was at 17-18 years old. Kids today are smart; they can create if coaches give them the canvas to do so.
It would be interesting to see him as national coach, his style is unique😊
Diniz will be National coach now until Ancelotti arrives next summer, it was announced yesterday
@@GNMbg maybe just maybe I hope diniz works and do wonders, it'll be a great story for him and Brazil 🇧🇷 , hope that Ancelotti stays in madrid
@@viscaelbarca4035 hell nah
Great news for Functional play (originated actually in the Danube with Ferencvaros, Honved, 1954 Magyars, Bela Guttman, and, some even say, the Scots low passes instead of kick & rush, and definitely still relevant also in the way eastern european players and teams approach the game): Fluminense's Fernando Diniz has been announced by CBF as the next Brazil national team manager, effective immediately (he will also remain Fluminense's manager, doing both jobs) . Possibly holding place for the arrival of Carlo Ancelotti next year. Jogo Bonito is back (hopefully).
And Bela Guttman coached teams in Brazil and was a massive influence for Telê Santana, who influenced Diniz.
Scottish pass n move was already being played in medieval times, but in the modern era, 19th century Glasgow streets was the origin of what's being called relationism here.
Excellent! I wish this becomes quickly popular ... that's how we grew up, how played and see all the great players being free and creative, so real talent could be really visible!
Excellent video! "Relationism" was the preferred way in which South American teams played soccer for the most part. The tactical understanding was there but definitely took a back seat to players like Pele, Garrincha, Maradona and their teams. Historically speaking, South American players had always had a "technical" advantage over their European counterparts, and that is reflected in the continued demand for players like Vini Jr., Luis Diaz and the like. However, I believe this technical advantage that allows for Relationism play is in danger of becoming far less common as soccer in South America becomes more monetized and free fields disappear, and "foreign" tactical models like Positional Play take precedence. All this can and possibly has affected our futbol as evident by the talks of the current Brazil National team "identity crisis" idea. Regardless, it is quite enjoyable to talk and see different styles being played and I would love to see a Flamengo v M City match!
As your economy grew at a fast rate not so long back the worse Brazil got as more career options was created. Imagine if it happen in Socrates time. Dr Socrates might never have been a footballer in his day and only been just a doctor. Brazil national team paid a price for industrial progress and to be honest it was always going to be on the cards as people realised you can put food on the table through other means bar football.
I would like to see Man City get walloped and Pep looking a fool.
I do not agree with the danger of south american's technical advantage, not in Argentina at least. You are forgetting 'Fútbol 5' or 'Futsal'. Amazingly popular in the argentinian population (I guess in other countries too). 5v5 and small fields that force you to connect very well and very quickly with your teammates and also encourages the dribble, specially the one that we call "en una baldosa" which litearlly means "on a single tile". These courts are everywhere here. From schools, to neighbourhoods, to every single club (and this land is absolutely full of neighbourhoods clubs). It is just part of our routine, it doesn't matter your age. That's where you celebrate birthdays when you are young, and your asado or 'seeing the guys' day of the week. There is a very funny whatsapp joke where a girl sends a 2 minutes long voice message in a very sexy way telling a guy all the things she is going to do to him and after all that she only receives a 3 seconds answer: "No puedo, tengo fútbol" (I can't, I've got a football match). I think south american football is safe.
The problem with this style for me is that you have to keep producing world class defenders for it to work at the highest level. Brazil defense was exposed in 1982 World Cup against an Italy team they should've beaten. Carlos Alberto, Djalma Santos and Nilton Santos were fantastic going forward as well as defending one on one so when got caught out of position during the Pele years it wasn't too much problem.
@@abukebbay8399 Garricha
Such a perfect and clear overview!! It was interesting seeing the "Football Politics" spectrum, never thought that Ancelotti and Scaloni were relationism-leaning! Also, I wonder if Ten Haag's neutrality is a cause for United's sub-par preformances? Also, I never considered the average passing distance stat, really interesting to note..
Wonderful vid, Meta!
I don't think that it relates to. Ten Haag overperformed given it's his first year, dealing with CR7 drama, dealing with internal drama, lack of a decent striker and decent goalkeeper.
Ancelotti yes because they would always bring the ball near the 18 and try to pass into way too tight spaces and then have 1 guy with ball try to dribble through 2-4 players 🤣
I don't know what Guardiola, Klopp, or Ancelotti are waiting to hire you as their tactical assistant. You're brilliant!
Hi! This is the channel that I'm always looking for and just found! I have some good thoughts on this, but it's nice to see someone sort all of it out and put it so clearly.
Relationism is our trademark. This game turns our soccer style so popular decades ago and I'm happy to see it back on the ages!
Football*
Possibly it could become a big thing because isn't the approach used nowadays in football. But once they get the patterns and style of play as some teams did with Liverpool, it will probably become much less effective.
If two teams out of 20 in your league play this innovative style, it is only worth a modest amount of effort to figure out. If it proves successful, we will see more of it, and the coaching staff will train the team in the means to deal with this style.
Speaking of Liverpool, Klopp only uses gegenpressing sparingly, preferring to rely on setting traps on passing lanes. But Klopp used to use very high energy traps, literally ambushing a receiving opposition player with two defenders coming from opposite directions. I would suggest such traps could work in the clogged up area of a relationalist attack, if you could study and anticipate preferred patterns of movement of specific key players.
This is a thought-provoking piece.
awesome video. i'm a gremio fan and it was really fun to see our style explained like this
and he won the copa libertadores
Yet another informative video.
thanks man
I am a Brazilian and I have watched a lot of matches of Diniz teams (including when he trained my team) and never understood his game so well like now with your explanation. Congrats! I’ll subscribe
Eu acho que O diniz agora tá melhorando muito no estilo de jogo dele. Antes ele vivia e morria pela espada. E tem também a noção de que tipo, Ele as vezes quer botar esse estilo de jogo com jogador que n tem essa capacidade que ele exige. Tipo no Vasco.
Proper media offering. Many thanks.
Semsational video. I, however, would want to see more about Renato's tactics. He's been doing an amazing work with a recently promoted Grêmio (we should've never left Série A, but still).
This needs players with individual brilliance not all players can play relationism
Not realy. Diniz have been know to improve players creativity e skill.
Thanks for the amazing work!!!
This video is fantastic and sums up a bunch of learning I've been doing over the past few weeks. Really well done!
A very thought provoking video. I'd never heard of relationism in football until now and because I've always watched football through my own lens of tactics and order it was so counter intuitive that it took me a while to get my head around. But it does makes sense. For me sitting in the middle of the positionism /relationism line is optimal. I could see it working with the ball in the opposition's final third in the attack, out of possession defending in your own final third, not so great.
Love the vid, great analysis as always! One thing I would like to push back on is that positional play and relational play are opposing philosophies. That doesn’t seem right to me. I think they are different approaches sure, but they can definitely work together. To me it’s nothing more than different lenses through which to view what is happening on the pitch. The midfield box that city used last season is very relational unit in a “positional” team.
Mind blowing analysis! Amazing work
awesome video, a very rich analysis to say the least. I'm Brazilian and am also a proud supporter of Fluminense. I'm so glad to see people recognizing my team for its ideas. Fernando Diniz deserves that. Thanks for the video, I wish the best for you and for your channel, may it grow a lot so you can keep producing high quality stuff. o/
A tip, there is a team that has taken a lot of inspiration from this in Sweden, Malmö FF. The new coach Henrik Rydström for the season has implemented a relationism style of play and are currently sitting in 3rd of the Allsvenskan. In the beginning of the season they smashed all opposition and went 9 games unbeaten. Would seriously recommend checking them out
I think the best indicator of what will come next is to look back at what caused the downfall of the 3-2-5 of old
💯
simply awesome content!! Congrats man!!
Great video. Had not heard about this philosophy until now but it makes a lot of sense in retrospect. This channel seems to be getting better and better every time. Keep it up guys!
Welp, Diniz is now the new temporary coach for Brazil national team at least until Ancelloti arrives by the end of his contract with Real Madrid in the final of the next European season (we hope so)
Let's see how this whole new experience and test goes in the next Brazil match till there
This reminds me the ajax of tenhag the season with CL semifinal. In Europe this tactics cant work, İ think the positional play is way harder to defend and the risk of counter attack can be reduced by positional play.
I love to see Diniz getting some recognition. I don't know if people in europe are aware of this but he is heavily criticised in Brazil because he never achieved any major title.
Diniz will be Brazil's manager until Ancelotti comes. It was announced yesterday. Finally some recognition.
@@AlexandreAugustin É os coringa do diniz, não tem como.
@@AlexandreAugustin Ganso e Neymar juntos novamente KKKKK
He won the Rio de Janeiro state championship against Flamengo this year.
I'm afraid he Will be our Bielsa.
Positional play has some pros, like some you already mentioned in the video. It's easier to teach to players than fluid football and pretty effective when being on the counter attack, when you don't have much time and need to know where your teammates are running to. But in no means you don't need good players to make it work. It's the opposite.
Because the opponent can turn your positional play against you and man-mark your players or marking the positions, some of the players have to be exceptionally good to make positional play work. The wingers need to be good in 1v1s and playmakers need to be exceptionally good in finding pockets of space. And to know when to break out of the positional play and get back to relationism or functional play.
You can see it on every tactical analysis. "Playmaker A and B were playing in these positions but the opponent was covering these positions, so the playmakers had to drift away into other pockets of space that were open...". Positional play always turns into relationism, at least for some of the players.
Because that's the natural way of playing football how we did it when we were kids, before someone indoctrinated us with positional play. Street soccer how you called it in the video. Getting closer to your teammates to make it easier for them to connect a pass, getting out of the cover shadow to be open for a pass, running with the ball if you have some space. That's how we played as kids and it all happened naturally.
Relationism isn't that hard to understand when you look at it that way and teach it that way. All you have to do is add some of your own principles like De Zerbi with his "always play the most forward pass you can savely play". Another pro for relationism is that, because of the dense pitch, you have more players close to the ball and can win the ball back easier after losing it. Something that can be quite difficult and require a lot of running with the wide formations of positional play. And if you go away from the "always short" approach, you can force your opponents into a dense area, open wide spaces on other parts of the pitch and quickly distribute the ball into these open spaces that then can be exploited for spearhead attacks.
But relationism also has downsides. You need players with very good first touch, overall technique, agility and vision to make it work. In the Bundesliga just Bayern Munich, Leverkusen and Leipzig could use relationism. Nagelsmann used it for the first half of his second season at Bayern and they stomped most of their opponents. But you can forget to try relationism with any other Bundesliga team because their midfielders are workhorses with bad first touch that are just there to win the ball and play long balls to the fast wingers and strikers.
Toppmöller is using a mix between general positional play but relationism on the wings with 4 - 5 players being closer together and pulling opponents out of position. With players like Skhiri, Götze, Chaibi and Larsson. Hugo Larsson excells from the squad and became a starter pretty quick. No one expected him to be in the starting 11 that often before maybe the second half of the season. But i guess being familiar with relationism from his time at Malmö FF helped a lot.
I love love love relational play! Thank you so much for doing this!
I'd love to see the crazy play from the South American teams, I think that's what they were known for. Different to the Europeans teams, with creativity and the freedom to play, that what makes it so exciting. Maybe scoring GK will be making a comeback soon, who knows... 😁
Line goalkeeper when the team is losing, as in futsal lol
Rogerio Ceni in a nutshell
Positionism is good at wining league titles, but for UCL you definitely need to embrace the chaos of the crucial moments of knockout games were pressure gets to players and the structure falls apart. Thats why Real was so good at UCL over the years. They have some loose structure, but it is the individual talent of Ronaldo, Benzema, Modric, Kroos, Bale, Marcelo and others that decides the games in second half of knockout games, overtimes and so on.
Just watch their QF game against Chealsea last year. You can even say that they were outplayed, but one pass from Modric to Rodrygo go them back into the game. That's all they need. Of course, Gvardiola this year reached another level. Man City looks like an elite military unit. But still they kind of needed some luck in the final to get that title and you could see their structure starting to evaporate when the title was at their arms length.
At the end it is a balance. You want your players to play as an unit but also you don't want to suffocate their creativity with structure and scripted plays.
Elegant good quality analisys. I have never seen such on TV here in brasil
what a great video, thanks!
Ted Lasso really implement the relationism style with AFC Richmond 😉
Great vid mate. This is defintely dependent on having those style of players in your team and allowing them freedom to play as they like and having tactical savvy players around them to cover the gaps they leave especially on defense
Agreed. If you have Messi Iniesta Dani Alves Xavier etc of course you can give them freedom
Cool video! To me there are two more major concepts to be discussed:
1. Relationism is so much easier to play if a manager has very technically gifted players.
No wonder Scaloni was playing like this having one of the most talented player in football history.
No surprise De Zerbi wants to give his more normal players a detailed script of what to do.
2. Football is played against an opponent. As a manager I would try to modify the way my team plays, also based on the opponent instead of only relying on a single hard phylosophy otherwise it would be my team to become the easy one to predict.
Great video thanks for sharing
To be honest, i always love to see football played this way. The idea is great because if the team links well with movement, creativity, fluidity, technique and etc. If they manage to play this way with 60% possession, this is very dangerous as compare to controlled 60% possession, because the aim is to create chance and score. Not just keeping the ball. Tiring the opponents as well.
But i think the hardest part was how they can perform all of the others task like counter attacks, transitions, stamina and so on. And sometimes facing an opponents, we can either attack on left, middle or right side. So i wonder how players can adapt. Training the team must be really hard. And maybe to begin with, how does the team formation starts. For example we can start with 442, it can change to maybe 352 or 451, and when they loose the ball, probably if they get back to 442 to defense, the winger might be at RB, or FW at CM n etc. This can post some risk because of its fluidity. Maybe a counter-press of about 3-6 seconds, might delay the opponents buildup/transition. Or all players drop down and defend as 1 team as how thay attack as 1 team.
In Brazil there are an excessive amount of games in the season.
I believe this is what leaves this system vulnerable because of physical wear and tear.
Thanks! Amazing content!
Brilliant video. Learning so much from you! Thank you!❤
I'm really interested in these since the purist football video on diniz. it looked like it has elements I liked about tiki taka. I'm glad we still have other phylosophy to play the game. I hoped some crazy other can still emerge from other country. And I would like to see maybe smaller team in europe trying to implement relationism in their tactic.
I think this will be great in Afriacan teams too cus this is how we play football in the streets growing up...
It's time for some African team to win a World Cup. I bet there are some major talents across african contries, but many players don't have many oportunities.
@lucascorreia1864 yeah the opportunity is the problem I am a coach In the Gambia West Africa and I concentrate mostly on youth development but its a whole lot of talent and clubs around the world are noticing it and most are concentrating on Africa now...
@@basirujobe186Africa should develop similar philosophy having it's own flavour.
Young players should be trained in a relationist environment.
Great players are functional to every system, as they make the best decisions in any environment.
This line of training forces the player to react based on its surroundings and its perception of the game. This not only helps the player to become independent and versatile, but in addition makes the training harder purely from a technical standpoint: as you have said, positional play takes some of the thinking off the player and helps him/her to focus on the play, on the contrary putting the pressure of the decision back on the young player makes for a harder technical and mental challenge, and if the player is a good player, an harder training should be a better training.
I should clarify that by training i do not refer specifically to what you do at junior club centers to prepare for matches, but the philosophy of play the youngsters are in within the different matches.
Probably the fluminense style is too extreme, because you need some kind of discipline in the field, since in modern football all the players participate in defense; I think that the compromise sits somewhere between Pioli and Spalletti's level of chaos.
This "relazionismo"(as it is called here in Italy) surely has positive effects on the developement of offensive talents; on the other hand the Selecao and Seleccion(which come from the most purely relationist football cultures) do not seem to be at any time short on good, if not amazing, defenders and central defensive midfielders. (Bremer, Militao, Lisandro and Romero are world-class, and the generation before, more undisciplined, was even better)
As an Italian, i can see the effects of the opposite approach on our football movement and I can safely say it's been a disaster. Since our World Cup winning golden generation, we have not been at all able to produce talents as consistently as neighbouring countries which have similar population count and prominence of the sport in the culture.
Here in italy youngster training is not centered on making the player better, but on winning youth league matches for the manager through tactics.
Improvisation and dribbling is discouraged, mistakes are harshly punished, tactics are overwhelming and hard-coded into the players from a young age. What is valued as "Talent", is not the ability to produce the most from any given situation, which is the point of relationism, but the ability to not make mistakes.
You have to bear in mind that the orthodox tactical thought of italian football is not associative play like in spain nor intensity like in germany, but ultra-disciplined positional defense and counter-attack and the winger-less, trequartista-less, 352 lineup.
The players our kind of positionism selcts for are not creative risk takers, but error-fearing conservative play producers.
The obsession for safety rather than creativity has depleted the offensive quality of La Nazionale and rendered us unable to compete with other european nations, if not by the means of catenaccio and tilting the field.
This is the main factor behind Azzurri winning the Euros but not being able to qualify for the world cup repeatedly: against stronger teams who take the initiative, counter-attacking of course works and we prove to be very hard to beat in defense.
But when we have to take the initiative and need to rip open a closed defense, we simply lack the talent to do so and we lose confidence.
May Azzurri's demise be a testament to how conservative football destroys talent.
Sacchi has condemned us.
May Ancelotti save us all.
Thks for a balance presentation..... especially the point the approaches growing organically...... from the time player are of young ages
Here is the thing: I think Pep has gotten to the point where positional play is not just about organized attack and taking mental pressure off of his players but also having good coverage against a counter attack if they do turn the ball over. Where relationism can struggle is being left open to a counter attack simply because, in the moment, the ball is lost and a key space is left open that the opponent can counter attack. Positional play is about attacking with control and stifling counter attacks with players covering key spaces.
No really , with the relational play, players can quickly counter press when the lose posssesion of the ball, because they are all in a very compact space , and even if the opposition switches to the other side of the pitch , they can easily adjust because must players are all in that compact space created by the team in possession.
que lindo que tomen en cuenta nuestro fútbol latino :')
At 5:37 i knew you knew your stuff when you put ten hag right in the middle , his plays that display when progression is made in crowded areas then the quick switch to the lesser populated half side of the pitch has largely gone unnoticed in europe. And i honestly think he can still play alot more free flowing allowing the players make individual decisions. This is an excellent video and you have done an excellent job. You have my subscription. Back to the video.
I am so greatful to have found this channel!
Are you considering writing a book on how football evolved? I would surely buy it!
You didn't add Henrik Rydström of Malmö FF.... already implementing Diniz level relationism in Europe
I hope brazil bring back this revolution, football will be more entertaining when there are different styles and plays
Great video!!! What is great about the relationism, here called something like "functionalism" or "functional attack" is the freedom it gives to the players.
That kind of thinking comes a lot from Diniz college degree, he is a psychologist, and as he says the players are supposed to have fun on the pitch because they are the protagonists of the spectacle that is football!
Thanks for the video, it's very informative and useful to us coaches and analysts. To note this is the usual style in almost all the the big teams in the southern hemisphere, South African and South American teams play this style to perfection because almost the whole squad in a team has skills and if you check they prefer local (African/South American), Spanish and Portuguese coaches because European football is too restricts self expression to a certain level.
I think this kind of playstyle is good for the fans and probably for finals given that most of the times all strategies go to shite on most of them. But other than that I cant see this one give constant results on a higher level. Few questions too, lets say Madrid plays a full relationism style like Fluminense with Modric being their playmaker or "Classic 10", if he gets injured the player that comes in say Ceballos wont give you half of what Modric did and on top of that players around will now have to get used to Ceballos movements and timing since theres no clear instructions on how to play. How do they deal with that kind of situation? And also, does this style makes the team a lot more prone to get counter-attacked easily?
Exactly! The downsides of this philosophy is defensive exposure and relying too much on individual talents. But when you lose an important player you gotta find a new relation between players. Recently Diniz lost his 10 Ganso, and found a new structure by playing with 4 strikers and relying on the playmaking of sidebacks and central midfielders, using long balls and beating the opposition in a speed game.
Venezuela loved Relationism
Uruguay and Colombia too.
Thank you so much for this video
Este video es sin duda uno de los mejores que he visto en mucho tiempo, muchas gracias por corroborar mis analisis personales y por darles un nombre. Desde ahora cuentas con mi apoyo. Abrazos
Please @Football Meta can you do a video on Ten Hag philosophy and style of play? Because most United fans are still struggling why there’s no consistency in the style of play.
Thank you 🙏🏾
From what I've read and see Ten Hag looks to create a balance between transitional football and positional football since Man u players are quite fast the team looks to control the ball not to close to the area to drag teams out and then strike with speed
Fernando Diniz was made the interim coach of the Brazilian national team until Ancellotti's arrival in 2024 this week. I'm a fluminense fan myself, but me and a lot of fans have some qualms with Fernando Diniz and his tactical play. The start of his tenure at Fluminense during this year's regional championships (essentially a pre-season) was met with great success. Fluminense won the Campeonato Carioca, the Rio de Janeiro state tournament, with a 4-3 on aggregate Fla-Flu derby match against Flamengo. The team also delivered well at the start of the season, especially in the Libertadores Cup (South American continental tournament), beating arguably Argentina's best team currently, River Plate 5-1 in the group stages. But eventually teams adapted their pressing to Diniz's tactics, so they began to trap us on our side of the pitch for the entire game. Diniz is too reliant on this style of play, so until now he has not been able to or willing to adapt and evolve his tactics. The past 10 games or so we've only won twice. A lot of draws, but enough defeats to make it hurt, so I'm reluctant to think he's going to work out for us or the national team. While relationism does give near absolute freedom to the player, players in fact have limited ways they can play in the constrained area. So they're forced to repeat the same tactics over and over, even when it's clear the opponent has us completely figured out. I've watched the games for most of the season so far and recently we've been only scoring from set pieces and the odd mistake from the opposing team.
Você deve ser poliglota, fala inglês, português e muita merda.
Inglês bom em paizão
@@Calvoguedes837 vlw man
what a great video. thanks and greetings from Grêmio!
It feels to me that Relationism is a new way of looking at the same core idea of pressing. Instead of pressing, whether it's being performed in possession or not, being something that is conducted vertically from end to end, compressing the pitch into a smaller space, this appears to be doing something similar but horizontally.
I actually think it's a very clever innovation as to me it seems if it's utilised in a team with the same athletic and technical qualities as the Tiki-Taka Barça, that used possession, quick short passes, and overlapping runs to achieve it's goals, it could also mitigate some of the flaws that style began to encounter as it reached it's logical conclusions. As those teams became so extreme in their compression of the pitch, it made them vulnerable to explosive counter attacking football. A horizontally pressing team can mitigate this somewhat by not compressing the vertical space as much and leaving defensive players in more natural areas of the pitch even if more tilted to one flank.
Very interesting to see some genuine innovation as the Guardiola-isation of elite football has made things a little stale in recent years in my opinion. Klopp being an example of this, where his name was made at BVB through rapid counter attacking football that actually this Relationism seems to be a development of in some sense as it seeks to exploit those moments where there are gaps in the opposition structure, the more he has been at Liverpool the more his team resembles a slight variation on the Pep blueprint.
Will relationism gain more popularity? Yes. It seems like you're already seeing that in the EPL with the way Arteta and Pep are embracing some of the concepts of tilting to break down the low block. But it's not the stopping point. They still want that control. Well Pep does, Arteta has stated he wants more chaos. So what it seems like will be the future is some form of amalgamation of both positional and relationism to create this perfect fluidity that allows you to solve the problem that is the other team. It requires the discipline of positional play, but embraces the ideas of tilt and field collapsing (Arsenal did this more and more in the second half of the season) and the key will be players needing to understand when to do which. Several players talk about the intellectual requirements to play under Arteta and De Zerbi and I suspect that it's because you aren't allowed to street ball (which is a lot more intuition). Instead, they have to understand when to go with that intuition and when to reign it in. It's a scary combination if anyone can piece it together, but it seems to solve the problems of positional play, but still allow for its advantages.
I absolutely love this type of content.
More of the same please.
Maybe assess why Guirdiola is ALWAYS able to change his tactics midway through the season and still win the league. Like ALWAYS. Hes become so comfortable that his players are even comfortable doing this.
Fluminense just won the Copa Libertadores da America 2023 with it's relationism. 👍
U’re an amazing teacher.
So its basicly structrure vs chaos.
Football in Brasil always had this factor Improvisation while european football is structrured and it became mainstream with Lobonovsky's 4-4-2 with Kiev.
peak Wengerball is definitely relationism
Yeah he would play like 5 very technical playmakers that just shifted around
Great vid! So interesting and easy to understand the concept due to your clear explanation.
Thanks a lot for this insightful content - it changed my perception of 'chaos' football. I will definitely implement some elements into my training sessions.
So, it is essentially how football was played in the 90s and 00s.
Diniz will make the Brazilians do some weird magic on the pitch 😂