4 Reasons You NEED This Behind Your Siding
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- Опубликовано: 18 авг 2022
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I find it interesting how different building practices are, in different areas, just here in North America. I’ve been in the business for 20 years, here in Nova Scotia. Rain screen has been practice for the entire time, and who knows, how long before me. Locally, if we even repair more then 1/3 the siding on a wall, we’re required to remove it all, and install rain screen. Makes so much sense. A big benefit to it,is it allows your siding to dry out. Wood siding painted with latex paint, can hold a lot of water. For clapboard style siding, we often just use a pressure treated 1 1/2 x 3/8 lath. Very inexpensive, and very easy to use.
Agreed, here in the US we like to gamble.........
In a hot, dry climate, that air gap is very much worth having for the cooling benefit. Any circulation behind the siding really helps to lower the heat conduction from the wall surface.
Yep, especially with dark metal siding.
White paint or stain.
Steve & Matt,
Excellent short take Men!
I love that point about Calk being optional since water will dry out... so "let water out!" Awesome looking product in the drain plane.
Dr Joe taught that water gets in cuz water under wind pressure flows uphill and all around.
Cheers,
Eric
Good point: that's another crucial reason to focus on the interface of these vertical air gaps with the soffit vents and with similar air gaps to vent the roof. Off the top, I should think a continuous air gap should be designed to minimize water intrusion at that crucial connection at the soffits. Yes, strong wind will drive water UPWARDS, particularly at the soffits.
Thanks!!! We'll be moving from Phoenix and building in the Knoxville area in a couple years and will be getting around 50" of rain annually. This is timely info for my list of to-do's!
I live in Knoxville and the moisture issues are major. Lots of issues with crawlspaces.
Wonderful ending this one!! Nice option to underline the importance of air gaps. Let it all out!!
#5 Sound Abatement! An air gap is a great way to decouple the wall to lower sound transmission into the home.
It certainly does contribute
Probably bit it really depends on how the system is built, in theory it can even amplify sound
It 3am here and I’m watching about rain screen assembly
Awesome!!!
This is very interesting. In Norway we've practiced to have constructions that breathe for maybe 30-40 years now. We always do siding that breathes, same goes for any sub-roof construction, soffits etc. But we use wood, minimum usually 23mm spacing on horizontal, with 36mm horizontal nailers on vertical paneling on top of 23mm vertical.
Please explain the effects of thousands of siding nails thru the previously sealed Zip panels. Significant extra money is spent on ZIP panels, then more time and materials to repair and re-seal them, then drive thousands of nails into them to attach siding. Also, in 2017 you showed a 3-step sealing system over plain OSB. Wouldn't that, followed by Zip tape to seal mechanical penetrations, be more cost effective for the same performance? Thanks.
That's a good question. I'd be interested to hear an answer as well!
I would be interested in knowing also!
Not that it is a good answer, but perhaps add a seal over the nail points? Perhaps spray a water sealant over the entire Zip panel system as well?
I can't stop thinking about how to either attach outer cladding in a way that doesn't penetrate the just-obsessively sealed water barrier, or, have a water barrier that also passes as a final cladding. There's gotta be something out there, right? After a couple years of casually following building science I haven't found the silver bullet yet.
I though you only need to seal the nails if you overpenetrate the zip outer layer?
the air gap will help in hot seasons or climates. It reduces the thermal bridge from radiative and conductive heating from siding into the building.
In the winter, the same will be true just in reverse.
I have a crazy idea that on top of a conventional roof, you should build another roof for essentially the same reasons; the conventional roof is there for sealing the house and tieing in the structure, the exo-roof provides protection from the elements.
Good lord. I've had this same theory on double roofing for years. It's nice to see somebody else who thinks this way. 👍🏆🇺🇲
The double roof concept is essentially what Matt did on the remodel/rebuild of his personal home. I think the Pure Living for Life channel did something similar with their build. Furring strips down on top of their SIP roof and then a steel roof attached to the furring strips.
@@michiganengineer8621 that's very true. I've always thought of something like a sun shade or some kind of metal awning above the house, but it would be hard to do without making it look tacky. I should look into those techniques you mentioned thanks. 👍
@@michiganengineer8621 well that's an elegant method, but my concept is more like a steel roof a couple of inches to feet above the structural roof
@@0Sirk0 So you use a standard (or ZIP) roof deck instead of the SIP system. Probably be a lot cheaper even figuring in the cost of the insulation in the attic.
Wonderful. Great details.
My favourite Polish builder on this show ;)
I assume you were born in America, but still your Polish heritage makes me proud of my country of origin :)
I’m always happy to see you on this show.
BTW: when a civil engineer calls an architect a “builder”, please take it as a sign of respect :)
Your knowledge and common sense is great.
Well thank you very much, many builders are my best friends, but I am an architect. Just don't want to mislead you - and yes 100% Polish heritage / 2nd generation American.
Great pointers Matt!
I have a Taylor Morrison home in SC, wish the contractors would watch your Channel, they would learn a thing or two
Two years ago I was in process of building a new house. Was looking for ways to try to create better energy efficiency, and came across this "entangled mesh". We laid an entire full coverage layer of this material between the metal roof skin and the roof deck sheathing. The metal roof just effectively floats on it, although it is nailed down, with offset spacers to keep from crushing the mesh at the nail sites. Next important step was to create a ventilation path from the drip edge on the roof all the way to the ridge vent. To accomplish that, we used a corrugated plastic strip with parallel through and through channels aligned vertically, and placed these strips between the drip edge and the fascia. That allows a thermal draft to be created, all the way to the ridge vent, where the air can escape. Overall goal was to create a dynamic updraft between the metal roof and the underlying decking. I really don't have a good objective way to measure it, but I think it is helping with keeping temperature down a little. I've got about 9000 square feet under roof, and admittedly, half of its a walkout basement, but my utility bills were under $800 a month.
nosedoctor, And I was complaining because I pay $85/mo. 800 SF heated.
@@chinookvalley well I am in Texas and we just went 67 days without rain, and the daily high temps were averaging about 101 -103 for the majority of it , so I am not unhappy with the cost, considering rates have gone up > 25% in the last year. I should have mentioned there is almost 2000 sq ft of basement storage that is AC'd that is not living space so I guess the total is about 11,000 sq ft. AC space. Will be downsizing in a few years. or maybe take on tenants LOL. Will be empty nesting then.
The whole above ground structure including attic is foam encapsulated and the stem wall for all the underground structure is ICF. I wanted to go with the AeroBarrier but my GC was gun shy about new technology, so we went with the encapsulation. Wish we had done the AeroBarrier and pink stuff in the walls.
Matt Risinger is the one who got me started on looking at ways to create an air space between the metal skin on the roof and the underlayment on the roof deck. He did a video on something called Delta Trela. I ended up going with different manufacturer, but the same idea.
I really like the accurate language you have chosen to describe that "dynamic updraft". Builders should benefit from mastering essential gas laws in physics: PV/T is a constant. Also, that "dynamic updraft" should be assisted if there is a reflective foil on the bottom surface of that "ventilation path".
@@supremelawfirm you are right, and I thought of that, but did so too late. The underlayment was already on the roof deck. Considered doubling up but we were looking pretty overbudget versus projections by that time, so I saved my $ for insulating under the slab. I was happy I did that. The cost of radiant heating on the ground floor was higher, and after two winters, the floor (which is stone) stays comfortable with just the insulation. So many cool ideas I would like to have tried, but the money gets crazy, an its much worse now, unfortunately.
I’m really interested in what you used @nosedoctor, is there any way I could find your details to pick your brains a bit on how you did it, maybe get some photos of the vent paths and flashing systems you used?
If you live anywhere that you have tropical storms or hurricanes, rain will be blown uphill. Up under Hardie planks, up under shingles, up into ridge vents. Anyway you can have for this water to drain out is a good thing. I have learned this the hard way. Having had a house with synthetic stucco and lived in hurricane zones, giving water a place to leak out of a wall is a good thing.
Yea interesting, here in New Zealand all buildings are built on what we call a cavity system, they won’t get consent without it. There are different types on cavity battens we use, 3/4” thick by 2” wide treated timer (copper oxide, chromium & arsenate) is standard for vertical battens (for horizontal cladding) and plastic slotted cavibats for horizontal battens (vertical cladding). I remember the 4 D’s from when I did my apprenticeship relating to waterproofing and cavity systems, Deflection + Drainage + Drying = Durability. We have a very good system with consents relating to water tightness, but have a long to go with regards to air tightness, thermal breaks in framing and insulation standards and practices, that’s why I love your channel, great to share building tips and better practices from all around the world. I’m working on starting up pre-fab construction with thermally broken framing for exterior walls based on learned knowledge from channel like yours 🙏🏼
Another great video Matt awesome
Keene Building Projects has a lot more products like 020-1 rainscreen and 10mm rainscreen. Easy fur is very easily to install. Great video!
In low moisture high solar exposure desert climates, the air gap provides a movement plane for air behind the siding to move up and out of the the top venting, as the solar exposure heats the siding. This reduces the heat transfer into the interior.
Steve is lookin kinda jacked, nice work!
It was a nice profile wasn't it - thanks man!!
It's pretty dry here in Salt Lake City. The thing that I find I have to be fanatical about is shoveling snow off and away from the bottom foot or so of my sheds. As soon as the snow starts to melt and soak against the siding, the paint job is toast.
It’s like the old Vietnam jungle boots. Acknowledged that there’s no keeping water out, so give it a place to go once it gets in.
Water "management" is key
I remember watching "This Old House" in the 70's. Finally you guys are doing this right. Passive air flow designs walls and roofs. If your home has good storm water drainage, can't this be carried inches below the outside into the foundation with a pebble rock in place of soil?
Steve is the best!
Well thank you very much sir
Curious about putting a radient barrier on the zip behind the furling strips and shething I'd it would have enough air gap to be effective.
I’d like to see a video that has some details on how to get your doors windows and corners done using this type of rain screen
Hello Matt, nicely done on the information on all your shows. Going to be siding my home with 1x10 ruff sawn and 1x4 batten and will be using the rain fur .500
I have a question about how to do the ventilation in the lumber near the sofit and eves? Maybe you have a link to direct me on one of the shows that is pointed out.
Thanks ,Eric
Do all exterior paints, oil or water based allow water and / or air to pass through for drying or is there a special type paint that should be used?
Hey guys I have an upcoming building project that will use steel siding what's the best practice for providing an air gap without causing oil can on the metal?
do you ever reccomend spray foam behind your siding for extra insulation?
More PURR-FECT CLARIFY from the "Rising-Air" Team. You B the BEST, Matt & friends!!
Matt, just a thought: in a future follow-up, you might consider illustrating some of the best details to interface that air gap in exterior walls with a similar air gap in a vented roof.
Matt- Perfect world/best furring material? Some type of wood type furring strips or a material such as depicted in the video?
The Keene stuff is some of the best out there
Nice sharing Vidio.. thanks for sharing this video.. always succses friend.. greeting from Indonesian traditonal gold prospecting 🇮🇩⚒️⛏️👍
Hi Matt - Great episode! I am a huge fan. of your channel and the BSN. This might not be a best platform to ask so I apologize in advance. I am a IT guy that’s looking to break home performance space with zero working experience or training. Basically looking for a new career path. I was thinking starting out at HVAC then becoming a high performance home improver. I know it not as simple as I make it sound to be and there’s a lot of training, learning and work evolved but wondering if others subscriber like myself have come to you about this and what is your advice to them? Appreciate your time!
With your background you should look into getting in the Smart Home/ Home Automation area. I took an on-line course through a local college and it seem like it could be a real game changer for new construction if done properly. Wi-fi switches/controls greatly reduce the amount of wiring and labor that's required.
West side wall temperature in the desert can reach 130F.
James Hardie requires an air gap on all multi family installations to maintain warranty.
How did you do the rain screen on your second story and popup at your house where the siding would touch the roofing? Did you just leave a small space at the base of the siding to allow airflow and let water out?
It does make a lot of sense if you can keep the house dry it will literally last forever what about if you put vinyl siding over it or do you need something a little bit stiffer such as Hardy for real wood
Vinyl siding is somewhat a self rainscreen
What about behind insulated vinyl siding? The insulation is reduces the risk of rain penettation but I suspect humidity can condense behind it. And additionally, what about the bottom attachment of vinyl siding, how to navigate the bug/rain screen with the bottom channel for the vinyl siding?
@matt Risinger I have a mid-century modern house that has original redwood plywood sheathing with 4 inch on center grooves, similar to t1-11 but with smooth sanded face and 90deg edges on the grooves. I have some walls of siding that I need to replace. When I redo complete walls I can change up the methods and account for more thickness. I was wanting to adopt a rain screen strategy for this and wondering if this product is what you would recommend for use beneath 4x10ft plywood sheets. Originally it didn’t have a rain screen and was 2x4 construction with fiberglass bats in the cavity’s with tar paper then the plywood siding. Would using a rainscreen product such as this effect my shear/racking as the siding is also the shear. Thanks so much
Would like to see wild fire protection technique’s
Is this needed for brick or only when using a Hardie or vinyl type siding?
On a long wall how wavy does the siding look while sighting down the wall? since the rain screen isn't solid if you over or under drive your nail you will start to get wave in the siding? maybe
In my 30 years I have seen probably more wavy non-rainscreen walls than rainscreen walls - good execution is good execution, also please understand the venting option keeps your siding from warping, twisting, checking, etc because the siding experiences the same conditions on all sides - I did a house with spruce siding - straight as an arrow
Would termites still be able to get around the mesh?
What is that air gap material called? Also what about the kick-out all along the first row of lap siding? Won’t that trap water?
Do you nail on those rain screens? Or in between? if it's in-between, I'd be worried about compressing the material with no support
they said it was relatively non-compressible.
What do you recommend for wall shingles? It's not code for IRC projects in the PNW. Anything residential project built per the IBC is required to be designed by a licensed Architect and have an exterior waterproof inspection by a 3rd party inspector before covering the vapor barrier system with cladding.
"Homeslicker" by Benjamin Obdyke - check it out
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 Hi Steven, is it necessary to caulk the shingles to the exterior trim with Homeslicker vapor barrier? I was going to have the painter pre-stain the shingles but was told by Benjamin Obdyke not to stain the wall side of the shingles as they do not want moisture trapped within the shingle. They want any moisture that makes it into the shingle to be able to pass thru to the vapor barrier and let is dissipate in the airspace behind the shingle otherwise the vapor can get trapped into the shingle and not completely dry out. Any opinions on this? It does have some logic to it.
Thanks for the information.
Rear ventilated Rainscreen 👍🏻
In my country, there are no Huber Zip System products. Can I use phenolic film-coated plywood instead of zip system sheathing?
Is rain screen important if vinyl siding is the cladding? Doesn't vinyl siding inherently create an air gap?
No it doesn't, maybe a millimeter at best. The nailing flange will prevent most of the vertical air flow and water draining.
The code aknowledges Vinyl siding as a rainscreen. It is certainly not the best, but it does have a space - also it is inherently indestructible
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 Don't go pressure washing vinyl siding thinking it's indestructible.
Matt, my wife and I are having a barndominium built near Auburn, AL. The plans show the insulation kit is also the air seal for the house. Would this system be a god idea behind the metal siding?
Rob
I'm in your area and haven't seen any new construction using Zip around here.
Personally, that's what I'll be doing - Zip with airtight envelope around the entire house, rock wool in the walls, and foam in the conditioned attic. Had to talk my builder into the additional expense of Zip, but I think that's really the way to go.
As Matt has said in other videos - foam is a bit disappointing in terms of air sealing, but having both can really help.
One question...how is the top of the wall ventilated to allow airflow to occur behind the siding?
Usually just a small half-inch to 3/4 inch gap at the top of your siding, don't butt the siding up to the soffit, with an air permeable filter material at the top. Plenty for air to work through, and it lines up with the top edge perfectly so it blends.
Wont adding all these 3/4 inch staples into the 7/16 zip create more ways for water and air to infiltrate the assembly that we are trying to make tight?
No, the rainscreen equalizes the pressure and creates a pressure drop - water falls to gravity
Can this be put over tyvek drainwrap?
@mattrisinger- how would you externally insulate with Rockwool and this setup?
Where do you buy Keen rain screen in the USA?
Building in Tucson, AZ, would this be applicable?
Do you have any videos showing detail under windows? I don't understand how vents under the window.
Question, wouldn’t you be able to use scrap zip boards ripped through a tablesaw to create furring strips?
Do you have a source for the easy fur?
How can this work in high fire zones, where we need to prevent embers from penetrating the vents?
I have used bronze screen in some cases
Someone asked about critters? What about wasps getting in there or termites getting behind wood siding? Matt let us know what your experience has been with this. Thanks.
Yup. Perfect for bees as well if they gain an entrance.
@@conniemtompkins Actually they don't like the vented space, it dry and undesirable to them. I have a ton of rainscreens out there - they don't move in
How does it keep bugs from getting up in the air gap?
A fine mesh screen runs along both the bottom and top of the siding.
What do you do if you use tyvek to osb
I like furing strips with coravent better.
I don't see any structure to that keen strip. It looks like the product would crush causing an uneven look. Any alternative products for rain screen venting?
How does it dry after that bugscreen clogs with dust? If fact when it gets wet it eliminates the airflow
I have yet to find this in the US. Canada has it but I can't find anyone willing to ship it. Where can you buy it in the US?
I can't find it either. Only in Canada. Even my local contractor supply doesn't carry it.
@@michaelrdegroat if you do find some, please post it.
Should this be done in a new England area?
Definitely
Matt, what about high winds? Like in Charleston SC where I live. Hurricanes winds can get behind that and pull it off easier right?
No - it's about fastener and embeddment
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 wow thanks for the reply. I watch every build show video to educate myself before building my dream home. If you say it's good to use in a coastal setting I'll believe it.
if you don't caulk the corners and window trim how do you keep bugs out of there while keeping your expansion gaps for your siding?
You really think caulking stops bugs? And no, they don't like it in there especially if it is air open. The caulking provides an environment more desirable to them
I am building in the Carolinas, in a high wind and driving rain region. My builder is telling me the cladding needs to be securely fastened to the sheathing, or wind will get behind it and rip the siding off. I am new to the area, but he is pushing back hard on any exterior insulation or rain screen. Any words of wisdom? Thanks for educating consumers and builders!
It's a fair concern. Properly applied, I don't think that a rain screen would catastrophically fail any faster than a non-rain screened application. Again, properly done, I can't really picture an entry point for wind to get into. All the siding is still overlapped, or however it's 'normally' applied, the rain screen doesn't really change that, it just makes it go out a half inch further. But it's not like there are any gaping open holes remaining necessitated by the wind screen. I would guess that your contractor's concern relies on a misunderstanding of physics. By not using a rain screen, the siding isn't any 'more' fastened to the wall. The wall isn't providing any magnetic-like hold to it, just cuz it's touching the siding. If he's going to apply the same amount of fasteners (nails) either way, then that's no difference. And if the siding is applied the same way, just 1/2" further out (with no gaping openings), then theres kinda no difference in the end (except for multiple benefits of having a rain screen (thermal gap, drying, etc). Finally, think of how many people use a rain screen nowadays, and yet there's just not a crisis of siding blowing off, at least that I've heard of.
Unfortunately, there are builders that are stuck building the old way. Refusing to give merit to present better building techniques ( exterior insulation- rainscreen ) and will find excuses not to do them. Probably not wise to trust a builder who pushes back hard on installing these systems to do a good job. Good luck, if it was my house I would find another builder.
Dump him, I did the same on my house and had zero problems If your worried about rip off you just increase the nail schedule. and it goes like this, rain screen , air Gap, exterior insulation, water barrier fluid applied, zip board. you will thank me in 40 years
Success is in the embedment of the fastener, if you use a wood furring strip typically we would screw those on and nail to them
Where can the Keene Easy Fur be purchased?
nice . i think it bug proof?!
It is
Water crawls uphill....learned ALOT in Ornamental Aluminum classes....especially during a storm
We used to do water tests around the nation, on various new builds....its AMAZING how water seeps in
The redwood trees are powered by the capillary action of water. The General Sherman is what almost 300ft tall. So water breaks are essential.
@@steven7650 bruh, I've been DYING to move to N Cali and help protect the Redwoods ❤🙏⚠️❤ life with purpose ♻️🤌 Mr.Bellows runs a program up there and is passing the torch to the next generation 🥲❤🙏
With this kind of air gap benefit vinyl siding in any way Benefit vinyl siding in any way
We have a million dirt dobbers that live behind our siding in the air gap. We live in the woods and these black wasps get in every space. Southeastern US
Ripple strips
How is that setup not going to make your siding wavy af?
I'm hammer drilling cement out from behind my houses brick veneer. The builder was so sloppy they filled some wall regions up with brick mortar, and the wall cannot dry.
Mortar bleeds water in about 10 minutes of a wetting event - like a highway
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 I clued in after having to continuously replace rotted and twisted wood boards. Now that the wall can breath as normal, from weep holes to soffit, I'll bet there will be no more problems.
how about vinyl
Pure crap
4:48
“Orientation doesn’t matter.”
#IfHeOnlyKnew
yo
Yo Yo
A bit of a problem if you are adding insulation on the outside as some codes now require,
Not when the insulation is a rigid board of EPS, XPS or even an rockwool board. By the way, external insulation should preferably be done with load bearing insulation boards in order to avoid thermal bridges.
@@edmarferreirajunior724 Most siding manufacturer recommends installing there product without furring. So there will always be thermal bridging. You can see pics of hurricane damage where siding peels from the wall when it’s nailed thru a rigid board with roofing nails .
Not clear how the cladding adheres to the easy fur without puncturing the air barrier? Guess it's not possible?
That stuff will definitely compress. James hardie does not allow it! Look it up!
Name of the material please Matt.
Product maker is Keene
Product: Easy-Fur
www.keenebuilding.com/products/building-envelope/walls-and-siding/easy-fur
They also market a product called Driwall, in various thicknesses.
@@PhotonHerald Thank you !!!!
@@John-2632 No problem. It's mentioned in there, but it flashes by so fast that if you're not paying REALLY close attention, you miss it.
I just happen to be the kind of anal retentive person who'll spend 10 minutes scrubbing through the video. 😁
Lol someone else problem thanks neighbor 🤣
Yeah - I like that line
This seems useful in not las vegas
UBAKUS
Free pro software
I don’t know not so sure about paint, paint will go bad and fade faster from sun then rain water.
Water from the backside will bubble it off, leaving the wood exposed and necessitating scraping when repainting. Sun alone won't do that.
That architect looks like a bouncer.
He is one bad ass, I know him personally lol
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 I get the feeling you guys are really close.
@@percyfaith11 LOL
Are you worried about stapling that to the zip board? I feel you are making a million small perforations for water to get in...
Holes only matter if there is a pressure across the hole, the rainscreen provides a pressure equalized space so the water is forced to fall to gravity
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 That makes sense, but there's bound to be some kind of seepage of water into the wood fibers over the years around screw, nail, and staple holes, right? Definitely better than tyvek, but it still removes some of the water tight benefit of zip system. Is there a way around that?
@@frostman9661 I would think some yes, but wetting/drying is a rate question - the rainscreen tips the scales in favor of drying time
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 oh I see what you are getting at. That makes sense! Thanks your responses!
I thought hulk was green
This is before I get mad and mean
Or… you could just build ICF and forget about all that nonsense 😉
Rainscreens and ICF's is apples to elephants - not even in the same zip code
oops, I should have finished watching the whole video before I commented, won't make that mistake again.
So many people think siding is waterproof
Baffles me
This channel has had years of sponsored content (Prosoco, Huber Zip, Hardie) showing me all the reasons one WOULDN’T need this. And along comes a new sponsor (Keene) showing how necessary it is.
Matt's been talking about the benefits of a rain screen for a long time. Zip doesn't negate the benefits of a rain screen, it's just better than non-sealed panels.
bro have you even watched these years of videos? He has talked up rainscreens for as long as I can remember. The point is to protect the SIDING and zip does not do that on its own.
@@ssl3546 Yes Bro, He’s “talked up” rain screens for awhile, and now he has a sponsor. Funny how that works. Hardie siding (which was referred to) is cement based with a 30 year warranty.
@@seanm3226 it's not just about the siding - the vent space dries out the wall too. Infact the code allows you to decrease in class of vapor retarder when using a rainscreen. There are many advantages to a rainscreen beyond siding durability - even though it significantly enhances that too
I find it funny that americans are just now finding this out that nailing straight to the underlayment is a bad thing , where i live we have been doing this for about 40 or 50 years now
Well we are still talking about it because our industry is hard headed, There are rainscreen cases here 40 and 50 years old