@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket And check fraud was rampant at one time. One of the best things we've done in our society is reduce the use of checks. I used to go through a box of checks every 6 months, I now have a box of checks that I got nearly 20 years ago that I'll most likely never have to replace.
Are you people slow? So she signed a blank piece of paper then the neighbor went home and just printed out a form with the blank piece of paper with the signature on it. Therefore, it seems like she signed a paper she read but actually didn’t. Easy to get notarized.
No witnesses, no notary? If I was the judge I would be suspicious. On a personal note, my grandparents and parents have been badgered by these high pressure "sales" people (I'd call them borderline scam artists)
My wife was once a part time care taker for a elderly women. She would visit her home for a few hours a day and one day I salesmen came by trying to sell electricity services. My wife explained she was the caretaker and would pass along the brochure to the women's daughter but the old lady had subsidized electricity and most likely can't change providers. A few days later my wife pull up to her house just as that salesman walked out and drove away. A week later and gets an angry phone call from the daughter claiming her mom lost her subsidized plan because of the provider switch and was promptly fired because the salesmen claim not only did my wife let him in she was present during signing the contract.
Yes, and the fact that this woman is 80 years old. I hope somebody saw her sign that blank piece of paper. I'm 68 and am constantly getting these house flipper idiots coming to my door pressuring me to sell my house to them at some ridiculous price. I tell them what I want. They laugh and try to haggel with me. I tell them, "That's a hint to get your ass out of here pal.".
More than just suspicious. If I was that judge, I would say "Not a legally binding contract, you are out of luck!" to that person who I'll go out on a limb here and say "He's a scammer!"
If there are no witnesses, can't they just look at the compensation and see that this is not an honest agreement? Who willingly sells their million dollar home for a few thousand dollars that go to a sibling instead of the home owner? It seems pretty predatory, and that's consistent with the woman's claim.
@@n1gak However a court would consider the AGE of the owners and the amount of compensation offered to them. If it looked like the crook was getting the property for, say, a fifth of it's market value, then it is clear that deception was involved, especially if the owners are over age 65.
Wait..is this like the property issues black decendants were having with land inherited to the entire bloodline? One decendant can just decide to sell off their individual right. There's some news stories on RUclips about it. I wonder if the blank paper sign was like a family member pretending to gather signatures for a family album type thing.
@@n1gakBut apparently her sister didn't sell her share of the property, so why is she getting anything for it. I find that an interesting question myself.
If she has received no compensation for the property and her bank records can confirm this, he's going to have a really hard time explaining why this lady he barely knows suddenly decided to turn over her ownership of the property to him.
Right? Consideration is an important part of a contract. That’s why a quit claim between family member even shows $1 or $100 or whatever as consideration.
Did the quit claim stipulate any consideration? If not, what motivated the women to sign? If it defined an appropriate consideration, prove it was provided (cancelled check, etc.).
I know a guy who, in college, had a clipboard with a petition on it, and had people signing on the bottom of what seemed to be CC paper. Someone noticed it was actually just two sheets together, with a cut in one of them well concealed. We were signing the second sheet, which was agreeing to pay for tutoring classes. He got expelled. Went to work for Cutco until it went away, and now works for one of the scummiest car dealerships in the state, still scamming. Some people are just born slimeballs, sounds like this neighbor might be one.
The vastly overpriced brand Cutco still exists. Their stamped knives are terrible when compared to a properly forged knife. I happen to like the feel of the handle on their large metal spoons and spatulas vs. the silicone handles you find in cheaper brands like Oxo. But I honestly don't care since they aren't market/price-competitive. Why spend $60+ for a spoon when you can get the same spoon but with a silicone handle for $10? For $60, you can get an entire drawer of silverware.
That's the oldest trick in the book. Here, Sign this piece of paper on the dotted line, ignore that clear cellophane tape. After she signs it, he rips off the top sheet with a square hole in it and She's signed her property away. Perhaps he just ran that signed sheet into his Printer and printed the Quick Deed over the blank sheet with her signature conveniently in the right spot. Love to see what really happens next.
@@privacyvalued4134 I was looking into buying some knives a while back and came to the conclusion that Wusthof knives were sort of pretty high quality but I am not a chef nor am I wealthy but wanted a good knife set. I settled on Mercer culinary set that is made from the same steel but forged in Taiwan (lol a guy at work always points at things made in Taiwan... Says TWAIN... Made in Twain Mississippi 😂) Which isn't even a real place I don't think 😂
Here in Michigan a quit claim deed needs to be notarized. I would think Florida has similar requirements. Of course a it could have been notarized after the fact by a not so ethical notary.
@@adamofblastworks1517 It's much harsher in Florida than any other state I'm aware of. I got my JD at a Florida law school. We had a course specifically on elder abuse.
I had solar panels installed. The company that installed them wanted me to sign a blank change order. I asked them if they think I'm an idiot. It's like signing a blank check.
Heard a similar story about a guy who got a boat shipped cross-country. The driver delivering it asked him to sign the release form immediately, before he'd had a chance to inspect the boat for damage. He refused to sign, and as expected they'd screwed up and nearly snapped the boat in two.
That just reminded me -- the same thing happened to me. Dealership wanted me to sign a blank odometer affidavit. I have no reason to believe they were trying to bilk me -- I just told them to fill in the mileage (which they did, right on the spot), and then I signed it. It's hard to tell when someone's just being lazy or malicious!
Being that Florida is full of septagenarians I would imagine it would behoove them to protect the elderly who are losing their mental faculties from scams and abuse.
@@Tb0n3 Being that Florida is full of septagenarians I would imagine it would be a huge impediment to business and life if a witness or notary was required for every contract.
@@ChadBoss-qr4hl I used it correctly as I was basically implying 70+ because that age range tends to be where mental decline starts. I just thought septagenarians and octogenarians would be too wordy.
Had a supervisor at a previous job try to get me to sign a blank timesheet. She wasn't happy that I refused to sign a paper with the clear purpose to be photocopied then filled out. Some time later the office threw a fit that I hadn't signed any timesheets which I was never provided with an opportunity to sign. I was regularly shorted on hours as the supervisors friend who I couldn't leave until he arrived always came in 10-30 minutes late.
@@manitoba-op4jxtook me a few tries too but OP couldn't be relieved from duty until supervisor's friend came in. That friend regularly came in late thus stealing time.
If you had any proof of that that, you can report it and they would get in immense trouble for a special type of Fraud, called 'Time Fraud'. Its an incredibly serious crime with penalties of up to a $100,000 fine and 10 years in prison for each offense. So every day they shorted you would be an offense.
If I remember my chemistry, It is possible to get someone to sign with permanent ink a legitimate contract printed with special ink that can be erased, and then print over the erased part with regular ink.
Painfully obvious? There's so many suspicious things about this story. She claims this was at a birthday party in a restaurant, which would be a really strange place for someone to be bugging someone else and nobody notice. There should almost certainly be witnesses if this took place where she claims. Now if she received next to nothing in return for the land then I would be more likely to believe her, but I didn't see any speculation over what the transaction was.
This happens to the elderly from time to time unfortunately. A researcher and author hired a webmaster to run a website where patrons could buy digital copies of his work. The webmaster printed a lifetime services contract and lied to the elderly author his employer about what was in the contract. The agreement stated all of his works ever written published, any squeaking engagement, employment wages, or honorariums paid were to be paid to the webmaster instead. The author in effect became an indentured servant to the webmaster he paid to build a website for him. It took two years in court to unwind the contract. In the end the Judge refused to believe that anyone would voluntarily agree to become a slave and sign over all real property and lifetime income for nothing in return.
To be legally valid, a contract has to have consideration - something received in exchange for what's given. Usually it's cash, but it can be anything with value. Any contract without consideration (i.e. where only one party gives but doesn't receive) isn't a legally valid contract. That's why you frequently hearing about people selling something like a car for $1. Because the $1 counts as consideration, and makes the "sale" legal. (For donations, you have to receive a donation receipt, which you can usually use to decrease your taxes.)
@@zackfelkerI want you to build a box in the middle of the desert, and as payment for building the box, I'll let you keep me concealed inside it where you can poke me with a stick. Where is the consideration? There is no logical flow to either this contrived hypothetical or the very real one in the video. Mcdonald's does not hire a cashier and pay them 100% of the profits. Hospitals do no hire janitors or nurses or doctors and sign over ownership to said employees. It makes no sense. Stop being obtuse.
@@zackfelker If the webmaster gamed the contract so that any profit the author could have made from the website (directly or indirectly) went to him (the webmaster), that means the website is of zero benefit to the author and would not be consideration. It's like writing up a contract where Jim gives everything he owns to Bob. And in consideration Bob gives Jim $100 which Jim then immediately has to give back to Bob per the previous clause. It doesn't work.
I remember I got in trouble in grade school. This was the early 80's. I asked my mom how she signed things, and I wanted to see her autograph. Needless to say it was used to 'autograph' some paperwork from the school about my behavior, lol
Celebrities sign blank pieces of paper all the time. You don't get to run that blank piece of paper through the computer printer after it's signed and fill in the quit claim deed. Last quit claim I signed had to be notarized. So yeah, put me on the jury and I'd go with that... no notarization, no contract.
From what I've heard, most celebrities don't use their legal signature for autographs, but rather a different one they came up with for that purpose. Precisely to easily avoid situations like this.
This happened during the soviet period in Lithuania. A priest was convinced to sign a blank piece of paper. Later it turned into a declaration against him.
What a POS that guy is. The attorney for the lady should file a subpoena for video footage from the restaurant. Hope one of the cameras caught the signature on the empty piece of paper. (I know; provided they have cameras. ). Steve; the example you gave of the car sale, you stated the seller signed it and gave it you. That would be the proof that he sold you the car.
Look up the Douglas Treaties in BC. Indigenous groups on what would become Vancouver Island signed blank pieces of paper after negotiating verbal agreements on sharing the land with settlers. They literally had no idea what this meant and the treaty details were filled in after the fact with their land being ceded. This was in the mid-1800's and there have been several lawsuits about this in the past, with the government prevailing in most (all?) cases.
Could Indigenous Americans even read English? Just give the Tribal leaders a few trinkets. Just like in Africa today. They are finally getting smarter in Africa, but not in America where everyone has been dumbed down by the educational system teaching lgbt instead of the 3Rs. Some school districts are teaching STEM, but not all.
@@mikereagan1254 No. That's the issue in this case. They didn't understand the legal ramifications from a system they never operated under before Europeans arrived.
@@mikereagan1254 Sounds like someone has been listening to propaganda. Oh no, schools might occasionally mention that gay people exist. How exactly is that detracting from their function of educating children and preparing them for adulthood? You have likely fallen victim to another right-wing manufactured "crisis", like when they got their panties in a bunch about CRT, something that was never being taught in K-12. The real problem with American education is the historical revisionism, the whitewashing of atrocities. While this occurs everywhere, it is especially bad in red states. Right-wingers don't want kids to know about the bad things in our history, because knowing about the bad things in our history is how you make sure they don't happen again. And they want those bad things to happen again.
Could ask for a search of his computers if they were at court and see if they can find the document in question and check its creation date and time. If it's before the signature that helps him, if it's after that helps her. Now it's not definitive proof but it would help one of them, plus if he resists then it seems less likely it's going to help him and may also help her case.
Definitely! Most people do not know this but I learned that printers leave unseen watermarks on the paper that do have the date of the printing. I think he's toast.
The woman is in her 80's. There has to be some kind of "senior" laws against this. I dont know this woman's mental health, but with her age, you would think a good lawyer would get her out of this. There has to be a meeting of the minds. Was this notarized? If not, is it legal? If he can't prove he gave her money, that would be enough for me as a judge to lock the man up for fraud.
Yeah, I was gonna bring this up as well. My mother is in her 80s and I can easily see her get flustered and confused. Actually, my sister pulls shit like this on mom, luckily our other sister is with mom at all times to keep our evil sibling from taking advantage if mom.
No tolerance for taking advantage of seniors, but many retain their facilities and play on the stereotype. A friend of mine sold his truck to a 70 something man, it was sold as is and was used for landscaping jobs. The engine finally failed on the new buyer, he contests the sale claiming he's an old man who knows nothing about vehicles some young kid took advantage of. So his lawyer, who was family friend helping him out as a favor, ended up asking him various technical questions about the engine, and the man claiming ignorance actually answered them! Which of course proved he wasn't some ignorant feeble minded old man. He lost the case, buyer beware.
Laws claiming to protect elderly people, if improperly used, can easily become laws that take away their ability to make their own decisions. So one would hope she gets her stuff back and this guy gets some kind of charges, but I'd still be a little leery of the state's ability to say "you can't sign contracts unless we think you should" especially when it's florida.
I'm confused. I remembered when I bought my house & even my disillusionment documents I had to sign every page. To me, a blank isn't agreeing to anything.
quit claim deeds are pretty short, and it looks like at least in Florida there's only one signature page. But there's also a notary page in the packet, so yeah, seems like it would be hard to forge, even if you DID have a signature you could use.
I can attest to the risk of signing a blank piece of paper. In 1978 I was a senior in high school. My parents were divorced, and I had just gotten my braces off the prior year. Every other week I still had to go to the orthodontist and get a checkup. It had become an on-going issue to get one of my parents to write me a note to get back into class. I was working at Baskin Robbins ice cream at the time and had left my dad a message that I needed a note. He came into the store when it was busy. Not wanting to wait, he spied a note pad on the back counter. He asked me to hand it to him. He put his signature on about 15 sheets of paper. Big mistake. I pretty much stopped going to school and instead did a lot of skiing and going to music concerts and camping/party trips. Eventually the "system" caught up with me, and I found myself in the principal's office with my mom crying and my dad with a red face and smoke coming out of his ears. I would call it a "shit-hit-the-fan moment for me. The real consequence would come later in life when I was first a teacher and then an administrator. Paybacks are a, well you know the rest. : P
Wow, one of the most miss-reads I've seen in comments. Sorry you missed my intent. It was I who was paid back for being a bad student and conning my school and parents. It was tongue and cheek humor mixed with some irony of being a bad student and ending up being a teacher and getting paid back by bad students many times over the years. To be sure, I loved every one of my students, good and bad. The bad ones usually made me smile (inside), as I saw myself in them. Hopefully, my life of service to my community and my dedication to my students and staff serves as testimony that even bad students can turn out good. Hope this helps.@@_PatrickO
I think the operative phrase here from the lawyer representing the neighbor is that he hasn't been charged with any crime, yet. There are laws on the books in most states dealing with elder financial abuse. Even if the paper was filled out when she signed it, she can argue she didn't understand what she was signing and that the neighbor was taking advantage of her diminished capacity to steal her portion of the property.
@redlion145 I could see someone on the opposing side saying that is consideration but normally I would get the money and then give it to my sibling. I can't picture myself selling something and then saying don't pay me pay my brother.
@@TheKingOfCasuals Even if you did want to sell something and have the proceeds go to your brother, that's what a written contract is for - to specify those details so there's no confusion later on. It's not just on the seller, it's on the buyer too. How can the buyer prove to a court that they've fulfilled their end of the bargain?
@@TheKingOfCasuals I was scrolling through the comments are your pic caught my eye. It looks like a plutonium core just about to start runaway fission. 👍
Honestly I don´t understand how something as easily forgable and by it´s nature inconsistent as a hand-signature has become the standard way of verifying anything at all let alone stuff with this kind of value.
This reminds me of those robo calls where they would just try to get you to say "yes" or some other phrase on the phone that would then be used to mimic your voice for verification purposes to banks, etc. also when people get really aggressive asking for stuff, it is usually a sign that you need to run the other way.
Steve, I'm really glad that you made the distinction between the actual agreement and a piece of paper as evidence of the agreement. We enter into a contract every time we agree to perform a certain way. If you ask someone out on a date and they agree, it's a contract. If I agree to meet you at Starbucks tomorrow morning at 8:00 am, I have entered into a contract with you. While breaches of verbal contracts would probably not be litigable in court they are nonetheless contracts and it's up to the harmed party how they choose to respond. If I loaned a person $20 and they failed to repay what recourse do I have? In a legal sense none but it's a red flag never to enter into another such agreement with that person.
Not sure how this can be legal. Isnt there laws saying a one way contract isnt legal. I mean if you signed a contract that says you pay me a million dollars because I gave you a penny, every court will throw it out because the contract is so one sided there is no way its legit.
Lacking witnesses, the next question for me would be, was there compensation? No witness and no compensation with differing stories, I'd have no issue siding with the elderly woman if the man couldn't provide proof that it wasn't a blank piece of paper when she signed it.
What happens if they don't find any evidence in one direction or the other? Is the burden of proof on her to prove that it wasn't legal, or is it on him to prove that it was?
The party suing has to provide enough to make a claim. Then the defense gets to refute their claims. Tthe disputed facts then have to get decided based on which side's evidence is more believable according to the judge (or jury in a jury trial).
to sue someone you must have standing, there has to be an actual or imminent injured party, concrete not hearsay etc,there must be competent ist hand knowledge witness and authenticated document/s, without these elements theres not even a case before the court, google 4 secrets of the legal society and youtube 4 secrets of the legal society ( Richard Conforth states most judgments are void) videos 1 2 and 3, there are also crucial elements needed for a court judgment/order not to be void abinitio (from the outset) google void judgments, google the void order by Shirley , a law advocat etc. the court must have standing authority and jurisdiction, they don't.
This makes me wonder, if you were to create a document with erasable ink and have someone sign it, then you could rewrite the document, and if you didn't give them a copy, they would have a difficult time proving that document isn't what they signed. Or even only slightly modify the terms so you gaslight the person into believing they *did* sign the document.
@@m.abhishekvarma3655 I am more just thinking of a way a scammer could scam a lot of people. There are plenty of documents 99% of people wouldn't get a lawyer to look over, say school enrollment forms or field trip forms.
My first thought is that one could scan the paper with the signature. Then using software, create a document that leaves that spot blank. After that, run the original blank paper with signature through your printer and then you have what appears to be a signed document. If any of the printed data intersects with the actual signature, it might be able to be forensically examined to find out if the printing was after or before the signature. Very devious.
Steve . My grandfather taught me this lesson when I was about 13 years old. Now being 57. I wont sign a blank piece of paper. after dinner one night . He asked me to sign a piece of paper. thinking its grandpa, whats the harm? Low and behold. He then turned the paper over. And wrote. "I owe grandpa $500.00." He then explained why not ! To this day I wont do it. And yes I've been asked.
I once heard a story about a Roman Emperor who had the bad habit of not reading anything he signed, which was distressing to his daughter. He'd simply sign any paper or document brought to him. One day, a servant brought him a document to sign and once again, he signed without reading it. Immediately after that, the daughter entered his chambers flanked by six members of the Praetorian Guard. Angrily, she stormed at him, asking him if he knew what he had signed. When he just sat there looking blank, she unrolled the document before him. It was his own Death Warrant. Then she informed him that she could have him killed right then and there and it would all be perfectly legal. Needless to say, he got the message.
I guess if I were a judge and neither side could prove their story I would say the transaction never happened so return to the previous state of affairs. Then let them renegotiate the whole thing.
There is actually a really easy way to prove this one. On most contracts there is a line where you sign. If you look at this line under magnification you can see whether the signature or line was put on the paper first. 'Contract' is either confirmed as a contract or is proof of fraud. Done!
Someone who moved in behind a lumberyard my dad owned passed around a petition to "beautify the neighborhood". My dad signed it. AFTER folks had signed, she added the name of my dad's business as being the problem. She did not expect any of the signers to show up to the county commission meeting, which took a very dim look at felony fraudulent filing of documents. She didn't live there long.
Back in the 80s a couple I knew were doing some kind of a real estate deal with another couple. My friends had signed the deed of trust but the other couple had not; their printed signature lines remained blank. At some point someone at the involved bank whited out the blank signature lines, made a copy of the document (so the white-out was not obvious) and used it to foreclose on the property. It was all very complicated, but my friend was actually arrested for real estate fraud. The altered deed of trust came to light during the trial, and I will never forget the shade of white that the loan officer turned on the stand when she saw what had happened. (She was not the culprit.)
Lol, you can't add stuff to a signed document AFTER it was signed and still have it be valid. How is this even a case? Thy should have laughed that guy out of court.
Even if she signed a fully formed document. The idea of a neighbor badgering an elderly person to sign over their land for 1/20th of the value in family aid, even if the aid is provided is still a scam and elder abuse. It would be another thing if he paid her 800k and had a document saying he paid current market value. That neighbor is committing elder abuse.
Whenever I'm trying to sell or buy property, dozens of signatures, witnesses, and notaries are involved. I didn't know that in some places you only need one signature. 🤷
Why is it legal to sell something without knowing that you're selling something? It seems like informed consent should be a critical part of such an agreement.
@@siggyincr7447 Except with her age, he would need a Lawyer witness and a legal notary to prove she wasn't tricked or anything. And he's got nothing. It's his word against hers. But he is the one at fault, and must prove it was legal with a witnesses and notary, which he can't do as they don't exist.
Informed consent is part of the process, but crooks seeking to take advantage of older or disabled folks use deception. In one case I mention in my comment, and older gentleman THOUGHT he was signing for a Home Equity Loan which was used to pay his wife's medical bills. He paid the loan back completely and thought his home was his. What he REALLY signed was a Quit Claim document turning the home over to someone else in exchange for a loan equal to only 1/5th of the equity he held in the property. Peopel cheat older folks and disabled folks all the time.
Great subject. I have had Lenders want me to sign an agreement to do Appraisals for them when the last page was blank. I then took my pen and drew a line from my Signature to the top of that page and on the next page I also drew this line. I also wrote that there was nothing in this contract that was presented to me in this space. Nothing ever happen out of this but I think that I protected my self from this action. The Appraiser is what I do business as.
I signed a sales slip once at a furniture store & the salesman stamped it afterward with restrictions. I walked out on pretense of gathering up my check book. Didn't ever look back.
One of the judges I worked for refused to sign any opinion or order that ended on one page and only had a signature line on the page because of the chance the opinion or order could be changed or forged and his signature attached. Don't sign anything in this situation.
Whenever I've bought property I went to an attorney's office somewhere that also is a title agency. You sit in there with the people from the office, and sign a whole bunch of different paperwork. You mean this is a thing you don't have to do? I'm not understanding how someone can just pull off something like this.
Neither side can prove the contract is real but there is proof it is already her property. If it is all hearsay, then we should stick to what the facts are. It’s her house and he can’t prove it isn’t.
It takes time to investigate. If her sister or relative received money, were they in on the scam? The whole thing sounds very suspicious. Her out is that other members of the family also own a portion of the property and they didn't sell, or, apparently aware that she might have.
Doesn’t Florida have laws and practices in place to protect seniors from things like this? And why wasn’t a notary required by the county assessor or deed authority?!?!?
At the 9:31 mark, "Steve...... Your honor"...... Has a nice ring to it right? (I kid only because I know how much you want to be a judge). 😅. You know a lot of people (probably pretty much everyone including a lot of your opposition) would like to see you become a judge because you seem to be fair and unbiased as much as possible. Have a great day Steve. Great videos of course.
The best justice eould be to take EVERYTHING from EVERYONE involved in scamming this old woman and give it to her! She gets their property and they get to be homeless and on the street!
Any judge worth anything would ask what did the woman gain from the contract. If she gained nothing and the man can’t prove he provided her any compensation for her property she should win.
The woman is culpable to some degree because she knew better or should have known better than to sign "a blank piece of paper" IF that's what happened.
@@BondJames-vz5wk She may or may not be. I don't have enough information to make that call. If things are as she says that may very well be the case. Hopefully the judge renders a wise decision. How many times in your life have you signed your name to a blank paper? I haven't ever signed my name on a blank piece of paper, but there have been a few times I signed something I wish I hadn't. Maybe that's the case here.
In Massachusetts, you need to have the deed notarized, but no extra witnesses are required. I don't know if every jurisdiction requires a notary/witness. There are many unethical people with notary stamps, but unless they happened to be at the party, it would be easy to prove fraud, if it is establish that is supposedly where the contract was signed.
If all they did is photoshop the signature onto a completed form, then any routine examination of the filed deed will reveal that it isn't an original wet signature. If you want to have a signature that is far more difficult to fake, get a fountain pen. Fountain pens are awesome, you should get one anyway.
@@nolongeramused8135 They take a little getting use to, but I love them. The learning is just when you need to dip and tap lightly so you don't run out of ink.
Gel Pens, especially the UniBall SIGNO 207, a pen that is fraud proof because any signature with that pen will LOOK false if copied and the ink cannot be washed off any document. But fountain pens and old-fashioned ink are good too.
A realtor once had 10 bank pages as a 23 year old i looked at him saying no. i took it home put xes on each page and marked through several things like all windows are my responsibility. the worst i was to be responsible for all the taxes on entire property. it was a mall with 6 or 7 seven spaces and 2 large open 4 rent. also no back door. i ended up leaving as did 4 others.
I was manipulated out of a sizable plot "9.65 acres" of inherited property when I was younger, considerably more naive and far less sceptical than I have grown to be. In the shadow of that loss I will not even sign a contract without reading it and understanding it completely. The thought of putting my signature on a blank sheet of paper is nightmare inducing.
I got billy Simms autograph too. It was mid 90's Norman Oklahoma at the U-Haul I worked at. He even gave me a coach's sideline shirt nicely embroidered and a hamburger as I had been helping him over a couple days. Really cool dude.
Pro tip: When signing a blank piece of paper, always sign along the edge of the sheet. That way there is no space for the notary’s stamp. That’s the theory, anyway.
Would the quick deed contain any information about the terms of a sale? Basically, could you look at the language of the contract and weigh if it a reasonable contract or whether it is blatantly unfavorable to the old lady in question, and could you then look at if any compensation changed hands? Because the way I see it, it is implausible that the old lady would sign the deed without obtaining something in return, and whether or not you can prove that she did get something in return could plausibly shed some light on the veracity of the claim.
And by extension, if all that exists is a deed that transfers ownership but there is no demonstrable documentation benefitting both sides, I think that circumstantially that lends a lot of credence to the claim that the old lady is making, considering that the other party was just a neighbor and not a family member or such.
It feels like to me the daughter is the one that teamed up with the neighbor to get the $40k in cash and other items in exchange for him to get the house.
There's a way to stop this from happening. All quit claims should have to be notarized, the notary should have to have a photo/video recording of the signing. The recording with county must include both parties with a photo /video record. Meanwhile this should be an easy case - to guy with quit claim "When did she sign that?" "Why did she sign that.?"
I think he had blank paper on top of the contract and cheated the woman out of the property. Always sign stuff as jack meoff if it doesn’t make sense. He could have edited the contract and printed it out after she signed it.
There are creeps that will swoop in when they think someone is mentally addled. My grandfather was in the hospital many years ago and it was thought he was on his deathbed. A local crook came to see him thinking his mind had gone as well as his body and tried to get him to sign over his farmland and he got so mad he managed to get out of the bed in an attempt to beat the hell out of the bastard. Nurse came to see a fleeing crook and a patient holding the door frame of his room out of breath trying not to fall. Upside it angered him so much that he recovered that particular ailment dying years later.
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How can it be legal if not notarized? Anyone can fake a signature that is why we have notaries.
exactly. And how is a blank a contract?
@@pinkfreud62 Have either of you heard of checks? You don't have to notarize a LOT of documents.
True. But a blank "document"?@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket And check fraud was rampant at one time. One of the best things we've done in our society is reduce the use of checks. I used to go through a box of checks every 6 months, I now have a box of checks that I got nearly 20 years ago that I'll most likely never have to replace.
Are you people slow? So she signed a blank piece of paper then the neighbor went home and just printed out a form with the blank piece of paper with the signature on it. Therefore, it seems like she signed a paper she read but actually didn’t. Easy to get notarized.
No witnesses, no notary? If I was the judge I would be suspicious. On a personal note, my grandparents and parents have been badgered by these high pressure "sales" people (I'd call them borderline scam artists)
There's no "borderline" about it.
That's called elder abuse
My wife was once a part time care taker for a elderly women. She would visit her home for a few hours a day and one day I salesmen came by trying to sell electricity services. My wife explained she was the caretaker and would pass along the brochure to the women's daughter but the old lady had subsidized electricity and most likely can't change providers.
A few days later my wife pull up to her house just as that salesman walked out and drove away. A week later and gets an angry phone call from the daughter claiming her mom lost her subsidized plan because of the provider switch and was promptly fired because the salesmen claim not only did my wife let him in she was present during signing the contract.
Yes, and the fact that this woman is 80 years old. I hope somebody saw her sign that blank piece of paper. I'm 68 and am constantly getting these house flipper idiots coming to my door pressuring me to sell my house to them at some ridiculous price. I tell them what I want. They laugh and try to haggel with me. I tell them, "That's a hint to get your ass out of here pal.".
More than just suspicious. If I was that judge, I would say "Not a legally binding contract, you are out of luck!" to that person who I'll go out on a limb here and say "He's a scammer!"
If there are no witnesses, can't they just look at the compensation and see that this is not an honest agreement? Who willingly sells their million dollar home for a few thousand dollars that go to a sibling instead of the home owner? It seems pretty predatory, and that's consistent with the woman's claim.
Part of the problem is that the woman is not *THE* owner, she is one of *MANY* owners.
@@n1gak However a court would consider the AGE of the owners and the amount of compensation offered to them. If it looked like the crook was getting the property for, say, a fifth of it's market value, then it is clear that deception was involved, especially if the owners are over age 65.
Wait..is this like the property issues black decendants were having with land inherited to the entire bloodline? One decendant can just decide to sell off their individual right. There's some news stories on RUclips about it.
I wonder if the blank paper sign was like a family member pretending to gather signatures for a family album type thing.
It's not a million dollar home; it's a quarter of a million dollar home. In other words $250,000.
@@n1gakBut apparently her sister didn't sell her share of the property, so why is she getting anything for it. I find that an interesting question myself.
If she has received no compensation for the property and her bank records can confirm this, he's going to have a really hard time explaining why this lady he barely knows suddenly decided to turn over her ownership of the property to him.
Right? Consideration is an important part of a contract. That’s why a quit claim between family member even shows $1 or $100 or whatever as consideration.
Is that your signature?
Yes....
Well then what's to debate
@@ineedapharmistsit was a blank piece of paper. She didn’t sign anything away or agree to anything.
Did the quit claim stipulate any consideration? If not, what motivated the women to sign? If it defined an appropriate consideration, prove it was provided (cancelled check, etc.).
@@wbay3848 lost more iq points reading your comment than you've ever possessed
I know a guy who, in college, had a clipboard with a petition on it, and had people signing on the bottom of what seemed to be CC paper. Someone noticed it was actually just two sheets together, with a cut in one of them well concealed. We were signing the second sheet, which was agreeing to pay for tutoring classes. He got expelled. Went to work for Cutco until it went away, and now works for one of the scummiest car dealerships in the state, still scamming.
Some people are just born slimeballs, sounds like this neighbor might be one.
How many divorces is he on?
Probably in Congress by now.
The vastly overpriced brand Cutco still exists. Their stamped knives are terrible when compared to a properly forged knife. I happen to like the feel of the handle on their large metal spoons and spatulas vs. the silicone handles you find in cheaper brands like Oxo. But I honestly don't care since they aren't market/price-competitive. Why spend $60+ for a spoon when you can get the same spoon but with a silicone handle for $10? For $60, you can get an entire drawer of silverware.
That's the oldest trick in the book. Here, Sign this piece of paper on the dotted line, ignore that clear cellophane tape. After she signs it, he rips off the top sheet with a square hole in it and She's signed her property away. Perhaps he just ran that signed sheet into his Printer and printed the Quick Deed over the blank sheet with her signature conveniently in the right spot. Love to see what really happens next.
@@privacyvalued4134
I was looking into buying some knives a while back and came to the conclusion that Wusthof knives were sort of pretty high quality but I am not a chef nor am I wealthy but wanted a good knife set.
I settled on Mercer culinary set that is made from the same steel but forged in Taiwan (lol a guy at work always points at things made in Taiwan... Says TWAIN... Made in Twain Mississippi 😂)
Which isn't even a real place I don't think 😂
One would think that a Notary seal is required at a minimum
Here in Michigan a quit claim deed needs to be notarized. I would think Florida has similar requirements. Of course a it could have been notarized after the fact by a not so ethical notary.
You are correct; to record a quitclaim deed, there need to be two non-party witnesses, and it must be notarized. [Fl. Statutes 695.26(1)(a) et seq ]
Notary is required for deed transfers including quitclaim. Not sure how they accepted this without a notary.
I would think some form of compensation for the property would be required. Contracts require that both parties get something out of the deal.
Elder abuse in Florida is a very serious crime.
I was thinking the same.
Elder abuse anywhere is.
@@adamofblastworks1517 It's much harsher in Florida than any other state I'm aware of. I got my JD at a Florida law school. We had a course specifically on elder abuse.
I had solar panels installed. The company that installed them wanted me to sign a blank change order. I asked them if they think I'm an idiot. It's like signing a blank check.
There are scumbags everywhere.
...but did you sign it??
Heard a similar story about a guy who got a boat shipped cross-country. The driver delivering it asked him to sign the release form immediately, before he'd had a chance to inspect the boat for damage. He refused to sign, and as expected they'd screwed up and nearly snapped the boat in two.
That just reminded me -- the same thing happened to me. Dealership wanted me to sign a blank odometer affidavit. I have no reason to believe they were trying to bilk me -- I just told them to fill in the mileage (which they did, right on the spot), and then I signed it.
It's hard to tell when someone's just being lazy or malicious!
It does not count due to her age in Florida. Any lawyer will be able to defend her and the cops will be able to arrest him.
Being that Florida is full of septagenarians I would imagine it would behoove them to protect the elderly who are losing their mental faculties from scams and abuse.
@@Tb0n3bro I've never heard of that word before. Didn't know they had a word for people in a certain age bracket
Title insurance? If the autograph collector is arrested, his exploitaveness may get him (justifiably) beaten up in jail.
@@Tb0n3 Being that Florida is full of septagenarians I would imagine it would be a huge impediment to business and life if a witness or notary was required for every contract.
@@ChadBoss-qr4hl I used it correctly as I was basically implying 70+ because that age range tends to be where mental decline starts. I just thought septagenarians and octogenarians would be too wordy.
Any time something like this happens to an elderly person, I assume "scammer" until proven otherwise. (Yes, I know that's not a legal premise.)
You know that one of, and perhaps *the*, most well known grifters in the US is 77, right?
"Scammer." / "Politician." - "Tomato." / "Tomahto."
Had a supervisor at a previous job try to get me to sign a blank timesheet. She wasn't happy that I refused to sign a paper with the clear purpose to be photocopied then filled out. Some time later the office threw a fit that I hadn't signed any timesheets which I was never provided with an opportunity to sign. I was regularly shorted on hours as the supervisors friend who I couldn't leave until he arrived always came in 10-30 minutes late.
@@manitoba-op4jxtook me a few tries too but OP couldn't be relieved from duty until supervisor's friend came in. That friend regularly came in late thus stealing time.
@@manitoba-op4jx It makes sense. He had to work until the supervisors friend showed up to relieve him but didn't get payed for that overtime.
If you had any proof of that that, you can report it and they would get in immense trouble for a special type of Fraud, called 'Time Fraud'. Its an incredibly serious crime with penalties of up to a $100,000 fine and 10 years in prison for each offense. So every day they shorted you would be an offense.
One of my first big-boy jobs, they wanted me to fill out the time sheets in pencil and sign them in ink. Yeah, no thanks on that.
That’s crazy how it’s easier to forge paperwork for land deed than a car title.
The contract would stipulate money transfer for the deed.
If there's no money transfer....would the contract be void?
@@janpost4764not in this specific case of a quit claim
If I remember my chemistry, It is possible to get someone to sign with permanent ink a legitimate contract printed with special ink that can be erased, and then print over the erased part with regular ink.
After seeing that civil forfieture is a thing, nothing is suprising.
@@afriedrich1452why spend all that effort? E-sign is so much easier!
It's painfully obvious that an elderly woman was forced into signing away her property. I hope we get an update soon that the guy is in prison.
For me it sounded like the sister sold the property and the old woman sighed it, but then the old woman changed her mind.
Painfully obvious? There's so many suspicious things about this story. She claims this was at a birthday party in a restaurant, which would be a really strange place for someone to be bugging someone else and nobody notice. There should almost certainly be witnesses if this took place where she claims. Now if she received next to nothing in return for the land then I would be more likely to believe her, but I didn't see any speculation over what the transaction was.
@@matthewhudson6036 There is no speculation it says in the story she received no compensation for the property.
@@matthewhudson6036Even if, her age alone might cloud judgement and it seems to fall on elderly abuse via manipulation/intimidation.
This happens to the elderly from time to time unfortunately.
A researcher and author hired a webmaster to run a website where patrons could buy digital copies of his work.
The webmaster printed a lifetime services contract and lied to the elderly author his employer about what was in the contract.
The agreement stated all of his works ever written published, any squeaking engagement, employment wages, or honorariums paid were to be paid to the webmaster instead.
The author in effect became an indentured servant to the webmaster he paid to build a website for him.
It took two years in court to unwind the contract.
In the end the Judge refused to believe that anyone would voluntarily agree to become a slave and sign over all real property and lifetime income for nothing in return.
To be legally valid, a contract has to have consideration - something received in exchange for what's given. Usually it's cash, but it can be anything with value. Any contract without consideration (i.e. where only one party gives but doesn't receive) isn't a legally valid contract. That's why you frequently hearing about people selling something like a car for $1. Because the $1 counts as consideration, and makes the "sale" legal. (For donations, you have to receive a donation receipt, which you can usually use to decrease your taxes.)
@@solandri69making the website is consideration.
@@zackfelkerI want you to build a box in the middle of the desert, and as payment for building the box, I'll let you keep me concealed inside it where you can poke me with a stick. Where is the consideration? There is no logical flow to either this contrived hypothetical or the very real one in the video. Mcdonald's does not hire a cashier and pay them 100% of the profits. Hospitals do no hire janitors or nurses or doctors and sign over ownership to said employees. It makes no sense. Stop being obtuse.
@@zackfelker If the webmaster gamed the contract so that any profit the author could have made from the website (directly or indirectly) went to him (the webmaster), that means the website is of zero benefit to the author and would not be consideration. It's like writing up a contract where Jim gives everything he owns to Bob. And in consideration Bob gives Jim $100 which Jim then immediately has to give back to Bob per the previous clause. It doesn't work.
I remember I got in trouble in grade school. This was the early 80's. I asked my mom how she signed things, and I wanted to see her autograph. Needless to say it was used to 'autograph' some paperwork from the school about my behavior, lol
You're not the only one. I figured it was good for one time.
@@robertthomas5906 A smart kid knows to quit while you're ahea
Lol.
Celebrities sign blank pieces of paper all the time. You don't get to run that blank piece of paper through the computer printer after it's signed and fill in the quit claim deed. Last quit claim I signed had to be notarized. So yeah, put me on the jury and I'd go with that... no notarization, no contract.
From what I've heard, most celebrities don't use their legal signature for autographs, but rather a different one they came up with for that purpose.
Precisely to easily avoid situations like this.
Don’t most restaurants have surveillance cameras? If I was the police investigating this, I’d get a warrant for those ASAP.
Don't those deeds have to be notarized?
He could've stolen somebody's notary seal or paid them a little extra, notaries don't exactly make a lot of money.
This happened during the soviet period in Lithuania. A priest was convinced to sign a blank piece of paper. Later it turned into a declaration against him.
There’s a special place in hell for people that take advantage of the elderly
What a POS that guy is. The attorney for the lady should file a subpoena for video footage from the restaurant. Hope one of the cameras caught the signature on the empty piece of paper. (I know; provided they have cameras. ).
Steve; the example you gave of the car sale, you stated the seller signed it and gave it you. That would be the proof that he sold you the car.
Look up the Douglas Treaties in BC. Indigenous groups on what would become Vancouver Island signed blank pieces of paper after negotiating verbal agreements on sharing the land with settlers. They literally had no idea what this meant and the treaty details were filled in after the fact with their land being ceded. This was in the mid-1800's and there have been several lawsuits about this in the past, with the government prevailing in most (all?) cases.
Could Indigenous Americans even read English? Just give the Tribal leaders a few trinkets. Just like in Africa today. They are finally getting smarter in Africa, but not in America where everyone has been dumbed down by the educational system teaching lgbt instead of the 3Rs. Some school districts are teaching STEM, but not all.
@@mikereagan1254 No. That's the issue in this case. They didn't understand the legal ramifications from a system they never operated under before Europeans arrived.
@@mikereagan1254 Sounds like someone has been listening to propaganda. Oh no, schools might occasionally mention that gay people exist. How exactly is that detracting from their function of educating children and preparing them for adulthood? You have likely fallen victim to another right-wing manufactured "crisis", like when they got their panties in a bunch about CRT, something that was never being taught in K-12.
The real problem with American education is the historical revisionism, the whitewashing of atrocities. While this occurs everywhere, it is especially bad in red states. Right-wingers don't want kids to know about the bad things in our history, because knowing about the bad things in our history is how you make sure they don't happen again. And they want those bad things to happen again.
Could ask for a search of his computers if they were at court and see if they can find the document in question and check its creation date and time. If it's before the signature that helps him, if it's after that helps her.
Now it's not definitive proof but it would help one of them, plus if he resists then it seems less likely it's going to help him and may also help her case.
Definitely! Most people do not know this but I learned that printers leave unseen watermarks on the paper that do have the date of the printing. I think he's toast.
The woman is in her 80's. There has to be some kind of "senior" laws against this. I dont know this woman's mental health, but with her age, you would think a good lawyer would get her out of this. There has to be a meeting of the minds. Was this notarized? If not, is it legal?
If he can't prove he gave her money, that would be enough for me as a judge to lock the man up for fraud.
Yeah, I was gonna bring this up as well. My mother is in her 80s and I can easily see her get flustered and confused.
Actually, my sister pulls shit like this on mom, luckily our other sister is with mom at all times to keep our evil sibling from taking advantage if mom.
No tolerance for taking advantage of seniors, but many retain their facilities and play on the stereotype. A friend of mine sold his truck to a 70 something man, it was sold as is and was used for landscaping jobs. The engine finally failed on the new buyer, he contests the sale claiming he's an old man who knows nothing about vehicles some young kid took advantage of. So his lawyer, who was family friend helping him out as a favor, ended up asking him various technical questions about the engine, and the man claiming ignorance actually answered them! Which of course proved he wasn't some ignorant feeble minded old man.
He lost the case, buyer beware.
Laws claiming to protect elderly people, if improperly used, can easily become laws that take away their ability to make their own decisions. So one would hope she gets her stuff back and this guy gets some kind of charges, but I'd still be a little leery of the state's ability to say "you can't sign contracts unless we think you should" especially when it's florida.
You would have to believe something like this would have to be notarized
They normally require the signing of such documents in front of a notary too. At least here in Texas they do.
I'm confused. I remembered when I bought my house & even my disillusionment documents I had to sign every page. To me, a blank isn't agreeing to anything.
quit claim deeds are pretty short, and it looks like at least in Florida there's only one signature page.
But there's also a notary page in the packet, so yeah, seems like it would be hard to forge, even if you DID have a signature you could use.
My question is, who was at this birthday party and why didn't they intervene to help her from making this dumb decision?
I can attest to the risk of signing a blank piece of paper. In 1978 I was a senior in high school. My parents were divorced, and I had just gotten my braces off the prior year. Every other week I still had to go to the orthodontist and get a checkup. It had become an on-going issue to get one of my parents to write me a note to get back into class. I was working at Baskin Robbins ice cream at the time and had left my dad a message that I needed a note. He came into the store when it was busy. Not wanting to wait, he spied a note pad on the back counter. He asked me to hand it to him. He put his signature on about 15 sheets of paper. Big mistake. I pretty much stopped going to school and instead did a lot of skiing and going to music concerts and camping/party trips. Eventually the "system" caught up with me, and I found myself in the principal's office with my mom crying and my dad with a red face and smoke coming out of his ears. I would call it a "shit-hit-the-fan moment for me. The real consequence would come later in life when I was first a teacher and then an administrator. Paybacks are a, well you know the rest. : P
What payback did you do years later to get back at the people you conned as a teen? Why did they need to be punished for your con?
Wow, one of the most miss-reads I've seen in comments. Sorry you missed my intent.
It was I who was paid back for being a bad student and conning my school and parents. It was tongue and cheek humor mixed with some irony of being a bad student and ending up being a teacher and getting paid back by bad students many times over the years. To be sure, I loved every one of my students, good and bad. The bad ones usually made me smile (inside), as I saw myself in them. Hopefully, my life of service to my community and my dedication to my students and staff serves as testimony that even bad students can turn out good.
Hope this helps.@@_PatrickO
@@Graybeard_ Mr. Kotter, the original Sweathog! 🙂
I think the operative phrase here from the lawyer representing the neighbor is that he hasn't been charged with any crime, yet. There are laws on the books in most states dealing with elder financial abuse. Even if the paper was filled out when she signed it, she can argue she didn't understand what she was signing and that the neighbor was taking advantage of her diminished capacity to steal her portion of the property.
YOUR HONOR... You would make a great judge. Fair, firm and educational.
So a judge would believe that a 80 year old woman gave away property for nothing?
As a juror I would believe her. I find it hard to believe there was a deal made when she received no cinsideration.
Real lawyer talk. What sort of contract doesn't have consideration? Woman's sister is NOT the same as the owner of the property.
@redlion145 I could see someone on the opposing side saying that is consideration but normally I would get the money and then give it to my sibling. I can't picture myself selling something and then saying don't pay me pay my brother.
@@TheKingOfCasuals Even if you did want to sell something and have the proceeds go to your brother, that's what a written contract is for - to specify those details so there's no confusion later on. It's not just on the seller, it's on the buyer too. How can the buyer prove to a court that they've fulfilled their end of the bargain?
@@TheKingOfCasuals I was scrolling through the comments are your pic caught my eye. It looks like a plutonium core just about to start runaway fission. 👍
I would believe her too.
Honestly I don´t understand how something as easily forgable and by it´s nature inconsistent as a hand-signature has become the standard way of verifying anything at all let alone stuff with this kind of value.
I have never seen a valid deed filed without it being notarized. That is a major issue.
if i was on the jury i would have problems believing she signed a quit claim for zero compensation.
This reminds me of those robo calls where they would just try to get you to say "yes" or some other phrase on the phone that would then be used to mimic your voice for verification purposes to banks, etc.
also when people get really aggressive asking for stuff, it is usually a sign that you need to run the other way.
Steve, I'm really glad that you made the distinction between the actual agreement and a piece of paper as evidence of the agreement. We enter into a contract every time we agree to perform a certain way. If you ask someone out on a date and they agree, it's a contract. If I agree to meet you at Starbucks tomorrow morning at 8:00 am, I have entered into a contract with you. While breaches of verbal contracts would probably not be litigable in court they are nonetheless contracts and it's up to the harmed party how they choose to respond. If I loaned a person $20 and they failed to repay what recourse do I have? In a legal sense none but it's a red flag never to enter into another such agreement with that person.
You bring clarity to issues that I hope never to have to deal with.
Not sure how this can be legal. Isnt there laws saying a one way contract isnt legal. I mean if you signed a contract that says you pay me a million dollars because I gave you a penny, every court will throw it out because the contract is so one sided there is no way its legit.
Agreed. Unilateral contracts in real estate are not legal.
That is what I was thinking. Doesn't there have to be benefits for both parties for a legitimate contract? What is the old lady getting out of this?
Lacking witnesses, the next question for me would be, was there compensation? No witness and no compensation with differing stories, I'd have no issue siding with the elderly woman if the man couldn't provide proof that it wasn't a blank piece of paper when she signed it.
What happens if they don't find any evidence in one direction or the other? Is the burden of proof on her to prove that it wasn't legal, or is it on him to prove that it was?
Civil suit. Preponderance of evidence.
The party suing has to provide enough to make a claim. Then the defense gets to refute their claims. Tthe disputed facts then have to get decided based on which side's evidence is more believable according to the judge (or jury in a jury trial).
to sue someone you must have standing, there has to be an actual or imminent injured party, concrete not hearsay etc,there must be competent ist hand knowledge witness and authenticated document/s, without these elements theres not even a case before the court, google 4 secrets of the legal society and youtube 4 secrets of the legal society ( Richard Conforth states most judgments are void) videos 1 2 and 3, there are also crucial elements needed for a court judgment/order not to be void abinitio (from the outset) google void judgments, google the void order by Shirley , a law advocat etc. the court must have standing authority and jurisdiction, they don't.
This makes me wonder, if you were to create a document with erasable ink and have someone sign it, then you could rewrite the document, and if you didn't give them a copy, they would have a difficult time proving that document isn't what they signed. Or even only slightly modify the terms so you gaslight the person into believing they *did* sign the document.
That's why call lawyer always or record it when u doing
Somehow this reminds me of the Will in 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit'
@@m.abhishekvarma3655 I am more just thinking of a way a scammer could scam a lot of people.
There are plenty of documents 99% of people wouldn't get a lawyer to look over, say school enrollment forms or field trip forms.
That's why you don't sign anything. Or consent to anyone signing anything in your presence. (" o.o)
@@fsmoura if they were willing to commit fraud like that, they could also just forge the signature.
My first thought is that one could scan the paper with the signature. Then using software, create a document that leaves that spot blank. After that, run the original blank paper with signature through your printer and then you have what appears to be a signed document.
If any of the printed data intersects with the actual signature, it might be able to be forensically examined to find out if the printing was after or before the signature.
Very devious.
Steve . My grandfather taught me this lesson when I was about 13 years old. Now being 57. I wont sign a blank piece of paper. after dinner one night . He asked me to sign a piece of paper. thinking its grandpa, whats the harm? Low and behold. He then turned the paper over. And wrote. "I owe grandpa $500.00." He then explained why not ! To this day I wont do it. And yes I've been asked.
I once heard a story about a Roman Emperor who had the bad habit of not reading anything he signed, which was distressing to his daughter. He'd simply sign any paper or document brought to him. One day, a servant brought him a document to sign and once again, he signed without reading it.
Immediately after that, the daughter entered his chambers flanked by six members of the Praetorian Guard. Angrily, she stormed at him, asking him if he knew what he had signed. When he just sat there looking blank, she unrolled the document before him. It was his own Death Warrant. Then she informed him that she could have him killed right then and there and it would all be perfectly legal. Needless to say, he got the message.
Couldn't the burden of proof be that she never gotten a copy of it?
Yes. You cannot have a contract without both parties getting a copy of it.
I guess if I were a judge and neither side could prove their story I would say the transaction never happened so return to the previous state of affairs. Then let them renegotiate the whole thing.
Great idea.
The fact she got nothing out of this, makes me think shes right
There is actually a really easy way to prove this one. On most contracts there is a line where you sign. If you look at this line under magnification you can see whether the signature or line was put on the paper first. 'Contract' is either confirmed as a contract or is proof of fraud. Done!
Shouldn't a judge ask the bad actor to show proof of compensation for the property? Why would she sign off for free?
So like... she's very old... maybe not always in the full thinking compacity... isn't this in the very absolute least abusing an elderly woman?
Someone who moved in behind a lumberyard my dad owned passed around a petition to "beautify the neighborhood". My dad signed it. AFTER folks had signed, she added the name of my dad's business as being the problem. She did not expect any of the signers to show up to the county commission meeting, which took a very dim look at felony fraudulent filing of documents. She didn't live there long.
Back in the 80s a couple I knew were doing some kind of a real estate deal with another couple. My friends had signed the deed of trust but the other couple had not; their printed signature lines remained blank. At some point someone at the involved bank whited out the blank signature lines, made a copy of the document (so the white-out was not obvious) and used it to foreclose on the property. It was all very complicated, but my friend was actually arrested for real estate fraud. The altered deed of trust came to light during the trial, and I will never forget the shade of white that the loan officer turned on the stand when she saw what had happened. (She was not the culprit.)
Lol, you can't add stuff to a signed document AFTER it was signed and still have it be valid. How is this even a case? Thy should have laughed that guy out of court.
This man is a bloody con artist.. 40 grand to help the her sister, for a piece of property valued over a quarter million? This is why I hate people..
Even if she signed a fully formed document. The idea of a neighbor badgering an elderly person to sign over their land for 1/20th of the value in family aid, even if the aid is provided is still a scam and elder abuse.
It would be another thing if he paid her 800k and had a document saying he paid current market value.
That neighbor is committing elder abuse.
Whenever I'm trying to sell or buy property, dozens of signatures, witnesses, and notaries are involved.
I didn't know that in some places you only need one signature. 🤷
Why is it legal to sell something without knowing that you're selling something? It seems like informed consent should be a critical part of such an agreement.
It isn't legal. That's the point. If she really signed a blank sheet of paper, then this is fraud. The problem is proving it was blank.
It isn't, but I'm going to go out on limb here an guess that the guy claiming to be the new owner will say she knew what she was signing.
@@siggyincr7447 Except with her age, he would need a Lawyer witness and a legal notary to prove she wasn't tricked or anything. And he's got nothing. It's his word against hers. But he is the one at fault, and must prove it was legal with a witnesses and notary, which he can't do as they don't exist.
It is. You cannot "unkonwingly" sell something? A sale in an intentional act.
Informed consent is part of the process, but crooks seeking to take advantage of older or disabled folks use deception. In one case I mention in my comment, and older gentleman THOUGHT he was signing for a Home Equity Loan which was used to pay his wife's medical bills. He paid the loan back completely and thought his home was his. What he REALLY signed was a Quit Claim document turning the home over to someone else in exchange for a loan equal to only 1/5th of the equity he held in the property.
Peopel cheat older folks and disabled folks all the time.
I see no consideration on the lady's side.
Great subject. I have had Lenders want me to sign an agreement to do Appraisals for them when the last page was blank. I then took my pen and drew a line from my Signature to the top of that page and on the next page I also drew this line. I also wrote that there was nothing in this contract that was presented to me in this space. Nothing ever happen out of this but I think that I protected my self from this action. The Appraiser is what I do business as.
Defiantly want an update to this if/when one comes available.
Another danger with signatures is signing a contract without reading the fine print.
Ben trying on a very large belt buckle, in front of LAW4NYC, Steve's LHS
I signed a sales slip once at a furniture store & the salesman stamped it afterward with restrictions. I walked out on pretense of gathering up my check book. Didn't ever look back.
One of the judges I worked for refused to sign any opinion or order that ended on one page and only had a signature line on the page because of the chance the opinion or order could be changed or forged and his signature attached. Don't sign anything in this situation.
Whenever I've bought property I went to an attorney's office somewhere that also is a title agency. You sit in there with the people from the office, and sign a whole bunch of different paperwork. You mean this is a thing you don't have to do? I'm not understanding how someone can just pull off something like this.
How old was this woman? Unscrupulous lawyers and their ilk prey on seniors of marginal thinking capabilities.
Around 80.
Neither side can prove the contract is real but there is proof it is already her property. If it is all hearsay, then we should stick to what the facts are. It’s her house and he can’t prove it isn’t.
Moral of the story your signature has value, whereEver you put it. Remember.
Great to know a handshake still means something in these here United States. God bless and carry on
Lesson learned. Do not sign blank pieces of paper.
Sounds like forgery and fraud. At least they are investigating but no charges filed is ridiculous.
It takes time to investigate. If her sister or relative received money, were they in on the scam? The whole thing sounds very suspicious. Her out is that other members of the family also own a portion of the property and they didn't sell, or, apparently aware that she might have.
Well, there is just her claim that the paper was blank, she may well be lying about that.
What an evil creep to take advantage of the elderly like that.
Elderly law would say he is taking advanage
So they basically robbed her
Feels like there was no meeting of the minds in this contract.
Doesn’t Florida have laws and practices in place to protect seniors from things like this?
And why wasn’t a notary required by the county assessor or deed authority?!?!?
You are asking that a politician be honest? County assessors are usually elected officials.
At the 9:31 mark, "Steve...... Your honor"...... Has a nice ring to it right? (I kid only because I know how much you want to be a judge). 😅. You know a lot of people (probably pretty much everyone including a lot of your opposition) would like to see you become a judge because you seem to be fair and unbiased as much as possible. Have a great day Steve. Great videos of course.
The best justice eould be to take EVERYTHING from EVERYONE involved in scamming this old woman and give it to her! She gets their property and they get to be homeless and on the street!
Any judge worth anything would ask what did the woman gain from the contract. If she gained nothing and the man can’t prove he provided her any compensation for her property she should win.
The woman is culpable to some degree because she knew better or should have known better than to sign "a blank piece of paper" IF that's what happened.
culpable of being a victim of elder abuse?
@@BondJames-vz5wk She may or may not be. I don't have enough information to make that call. If things are as she says that may very well be the case. Hopefully the judge renders a wise decision. How many times in your life have you signed your name to a blank paper? I haven't ever signed my name on a blank piece of paper, but there have been a few times I signed something I wish I hadn't. Maybe that's the case here.
The best attorney billboard I ever saw said "just because you did it doesn't mean you're guilty" 😂😂😂
In Massachusetts, you need to have the deed notarized, but no extra witnesses are required. I don't know if every jurisdiction requires a notary/witness.
There are many unethical people with notary stamps, but unless they happened to be at the party, it would be easy to prove fraud, if it is establish that is supposedly where the contract was signed.
Thanks!
If all they did is photoshop the signature onto a completed form, then any routine examination of the filed deed will reveal that it isn't an original wet signature.
If you want to have a signature that is far more difficult to fake, get a fountain pen. Fountain pens are awesome, you should get one anyway.
I use dip pens to sign most things, they are even harder to fake.
@@kirkmorrison6131 I've considered getting one of those. How do you like it in comparison to a fountain pen?
@@nolongeramused8135 They take a little getting use to, but I love them. The learning is just when you need to dip and tap lightly so you don't run out of ink.
Gel Pens, especially the UniBall SIGNO 207, a pen that is fraud proof because any signature with that pen will LOOK false if copied and the ink cannot be washed off any document.
But fountain pens and old-fashioned ink are good too.
That must be how we all signed this elusive social contract I keep hearing about.
A realtor once had 10 bank pages as a 23 year old i looked at him saying no. i took it home put xes on each page and marked through several things like all windows are my responsibility. the worst i was to be responsible for all the taxes on entire property. it was a mall with 6 or 7 seven spaces and 2 large open 4 rent. also no back door.
i ended up leaving as did 4 others.
I was manipulated out of a sizable plot "9.65 acres" of inherited property when I was younger, considerably more naive and far less sceptical than I have grown to be. In the shadow of that loss I will not even sign a contract without reading it and understanding it completely. The thought of putting my signature on a blank sheet of paper is nightmare inducing.
I got billy Simms autograph too. It was mid 90's Norman Oklahoma at the U-Haul I worked at. He even gave me a coach's sideline shirt nicely embroidered and a hamburger as I had been helping him over a couple days. Really cool dude.
Pro tip: When signing a blank piece of paper, always sign along the edge of the sheet. That way there is no space for the notary’s stamp. That’s the theory, anyway.
Would the quick deed contain any information about the terms of a sale? Basically, could you look at the language of the contract and weigh if it a reasonable contract or whether it is blatantly unfavorable to the old lady in question, and could you then look at if any compensation changed hands?
Because the way I see it, it is implausible that the old lady would sign the deed without obtaining something in return, and whether or not you can prove that she did get something in return could plausibly shed some light on the veracity of the claim.
And by extension, if all that exists is a deed that transfers ownership but there is no demonstrable documentation benefitting both sides, I think that circumstantially that lends a lot of credence to the claim that the old lady is making, considering that the other party was just a neighbor and not a family member or such.
It feels like to me the daughter is the one that teamed up with the neighbor to get the $40k in cash and other items in exchange for him to get the house.
There's a way to stop this from happening. All quit claims should have to be notarized, the notary should have to have a photo/video recording of the signing. The recording with county must include both parties with a photo /video record.
Meanwhile this should be an easy case - to guy with quit claim "When did she sign that?" "Why did she sign that.?"
The woman's story doesn't sound very believable. Someone possibly told her to say that.
I think he had blank paper on top of the contract and cheated the woman out of the property. Always sign stuff as jack meoff if it doesn’t make sense. He could have edited the contract and printed it out after she signed it.
I've signed stuff with "Minnie Mouse," too, if it was foolish.
Love the Eric Morecombe quote at the end!
There are creeps that will swoop in when they think someone is mentally addled.
My grandfather was in the hospital many years ago and it was thought he was on his deathbed. A local crook came to see him thinking his mind had gone as well as his body and tried to get him to sign over his farmland and he got so mad he managed to get out of the bed in an attempt to beat the hell out of the bastard. Nurse came to see a fleeing crook and a patient holding the door frame of his room out of breath trying not to fall. Upside it angered him so much that he recovered that particular ailment dying years later.
I got a pair of jordans with Michael jordans signature printed on them. Wonder if i can turn that shoe into a deed?
1K+👍's up Steve Lehto thank you for sharing 😊
An elderly woman signing away her home, at an informal setting, to a stranger for no compensation? What judge wouldn't suspect predation?
Man was yelling and screaming at her to sign paper. Afraid and wanted him to go away and signed the paper.