It's a patent lawsuit only cause that's probably the only angle Nintendo has. The designs are JUST different enough that they aren't legally the same but anyone with any knowledge of Pokemon can see the similarities. The patent is just the excuse to go after PocketPair. Not saying this is a good thing mind you, just an explanation
@@flow185 I'm no lawyer, but I think patent includes the use of in-game assets. My guess is that the claim people were making Palworld literally using Pokemon models has some merit to them. If that is the case, then it shouldn't negatively effect other creature-catching games as long as they aren't also taking Pokemon models. Like I said, this is just a guess though
I wrote a business law paper literally 2 days ago about Nintendo's legal responses to indie projects and specifically used Palworld as an example, thank god it was due then and not today, probably making me need to rewrite the whole thing
In that scenario, all you need to do is include a FN and state that you’re aware of recent developments but they are outside the scope of this paper. And then keep it moving.
People seem really uneducated about what Nintendo is suing Palworld for. Its for supposed PATENT infringement, so no not the designs of the characters (which would be copyright). A patent infringement is likely to be something like a gameplay mechanic or something along those lines. Again this lawsuit is not about copyright infringement.
Also a point of misunderstanding is that Nintendo has dozens, if not hundreds, of Pokemon-related patents that other companies infringe all the time. Nintendo hardly ever sues them over stolen ideas, except when the suspect is so disrespectful and arrogant. And Pocketpair has been very much so. (It’s generally understood in Japan that Nintendo patents stuff to prevent from others to make the patents exclusive which isn’t good for the industry. Nintendo is quite generous when it comes to gameplay patents.)
@@chiquita683It wouldn't need to be code. Remember, stuff like "the concept of mini-games on loading screens" and "having a single enemy level up if they defeat you and have this reflected in the world" are owned by single companies for some reason
It's not about the designs. That's copyright. Nintendo is not suing for copyright, but for patents. It's not about the models but about the gaming mechanics. Which of them, we don't know.
It can still be about the models. In fact, if the issue was that there was literal copying-and-pasting of the 3D assets it's probably an easier get on Patent than copyright.
@@eclipsicalbluestocking1182 Nexomon uses a similar concept. Not sphere, but triangle-shape capture tool. I don’t see Nintendo going after them. Then again it might be niche enough to not be noticed. But, this is ridiculous.
No, you can‘t patent designs. You can tradmark designs, but not patent them. The only way I could see, the designs violating a patent, would be, if the way the designs were created was patented, but I highly doubt, that was the case, that Nintendo invented some kind of new patentable process for designing pokemons.
@@tirex3673 you can patent the code behind creating those designs, as a mechanical way to construct extremely specific geometric objects (think Primarina's hair).
I think Nintendo went the patent route because they figure their odds of winning are much higher. Copyright and patents are different laws, but both would ultimately lead to the same result (assuming a win), but in court they would have to prove very different things. There is no reason to sue over both at once, so they simply picked the one that is more in their favour.
brief explanation for everyone: patents enforce concepts, not implementations. The patent holder doesn't even need to have their own product to have a patent, as long as they describe it specifically enough and pay the fee to file it. So it's not about "copying", if someone does the concepts described in the patent, the holder has grounds to sue. yes, the system is broken and it's still morally questionable but it's not about copyright or trademark so stop bringing up arguments about them into the conversation
@@Masaim6 I would agree if they were suing for trademark or copyright. Which I'm assuming they didn't do because even the most blatant copy pals are barely legally distinct enough. I think being able to patent and sue over a gameplay concept is morally wrong and stifling to the industry. Even if palworld did essentially steal some pokemon designs, that's not what their getting sued for. Also I feel no sympathy for nintendo because they allowed pokemon to get into the state that it's in. Where a knock off game in early beta, made by an actually small indie team, is able to be a better experience that runs better than their most recent games
What I think is messed up patent wise, is that there are also monster catching games like nexomon that they could also sue over patents for, but they directly targeted palworld. Nexomon isn't new either, it's BEEN out and even has a sequel.
My issue with the Patent stuff is that it's actually arguable that Temtem and Nexomon actually were even closer to Pokemon than Palworld is in its catching systems, and yet Nintendo did nothing. Nintendo only seems to now care when 19 million players are playing the game as opposed to a few hundred thousand. At the end of the day, you can't patent throwing a trap, or the logic that if you are closer to something that your odds of catching something are better - this is beyond common sense and obvious. On top of this, Palworld has the three RNG rolls for its spheres, which mechanically makes it different than all of these other games. I don't actually think Nintendo can win this, and I actually want them to lose because I don't want to live in a world where Palworld cannot be made. The whole experience of Palworld is actually quite fun and innovative, and I say this as a long-time fan of Pokemon. I actually want these two companies to compete with each other, because we're only going to get better open world Pokemon games as a result.
Nintendo's upset because Pocket Pair are their lunch. 😂 Too bad that a 1994 case similar to this works _against_ Nintendo in this instance: Capcom vs Data East.
There is only a few hundred thousand people playing Palworld. It dropped off hard. That’s really no issue to Nintendo at all. Nintendo would not be doing this if they weren’t very sure that they had a legitimate case, patents are very specific things so Palworld has to have done something specific to have brought this.
What about TemTem? If it's a patent case, I'd say that game's mechanics are about the same if not more similar to Pokemon, but that one's been able to coexist with Pokemon just fine. You go from town to town in a linear fashion, you fight gym leaders after completing a small puzzle dungeon, there's a team-Rocket-esque enemy faction, there's evolution, type matchups, special overworld tools for traversal, etc etc.
i think it could be one of two things: 1. theyre going after a game mechanic that pokemon and palword share that temtem does not have (idk what that could be) 2. they'll go after temtem if they win this case
@donuko They are going for Pocketpair because the game sold exceedingly well and is a real competition against pokemon. And we know they can't compete, so they will patent troll the small guys to the mud.
I think changing anything before the lawsuit would essentially admit guilt on Palworld's part and obviously that would be used against them in said lawsuit.
What would they even change? PocketPair wrote in their statement that they are unaware of the patents the lawsuit is referring to. Which is by design, because they probably don't want them to be able to prepare for what they will be accusing them. It will come out in court, what the whole thing is actually about.
Considering what the lawsuit is about not really. The lawsuit is about Gameplay Patents, nothing to do with the Pal designs. Also they have already changed some Pal designs already. Very small changes but still.
@@vyse4907geez in American courts you have to lay EVERYTHING on the table before hand....despite legal dramas making it seem like a big reveal surprise fest. That's not a thing
The scary thing, is that they aren't being sued for copyright infringement, but... patent infringement. Like, what?! Did Nintendo Legit patent the pokemon mechanics and nobody can make pokemon like games????? This is very concerning.
It seems like it may have to do with the 3rd person aiming to capture creatures and switchable ridable creatures mechanics that Palworld borrows from Legends Arceus from what I've seen people mention.
It shouldn’t be concerning in the slightest. Nintendo have allowed other Monster Catching games on their consoles past and present. Robopon, TemTem, Cassette Beasts, Digimon, heck, as far as I can tell, a franchise like Yo-Kai Watch has been near exclusive to Nintendo consoles, the odd port here or there notwithstanding. Pokémon-likes aren’t the problem, it’s just Palworld. Maybe they’re guilty, maybe not, that’s what the lawyers and courts will decide. We, as outsiders, just need to use our critical thinking skills are realize “no, Pokemon-likes aren’t in danger.”
I spent the better part of a day reading and categorizing pages and pages of Pokemon’s patents. They are all at once ridiculously broad, vague, and specific. Essentially an assurance that they can eliminate any competition. Things like “An item on a screen is thrown at another character to capture or fight them”, “an item is thrown that affects the chances of capturing a character on screen”, “A character on screen can interact with an object to transition between ground, air, or water by pressing a key.” They’ve patented the minutiae of everything they possibly could.
Waiting till we get the full details to make a judgement but if they are legit just suing because Palworld has a ball you throw at the monsters or because of their day night cycle then not only is that stupid but it also sets a SCARY precedent
If true it's honestly in the realms of pettiness. Oh no! you copied a mechanic we copied from baseball and nature from our game that was inspired by Dragon Quest! How Dare!
This really is the best option for now. Until we actually see what patents Nintendo is suiing over we we can't really judge how petty or valid that suit is.
Not sure what exactly is scary about "they're suing for patents", we don't even know what patents they're talking about. Anything relating to the core formula of Pokemon expired 20 years ago(in US systems, not sure how long japanese patents last).
Pokemon patenting the idea of capturing monsters to use in battle is so incredibly stupid to me because they didn't even come up with that idea at all, Shin Megami Tensei already was doing this YEARS before Pokemon was even a thing and that shouldnt be able to stop anyone else from doing something with that idea but just with their own spin on it.
If it is the catching monster mechanic than why are temtem and cassette beasts in the switch store far as I know you get to catch monsters as well as monster hunter stories
@@chaoticcranium It is not almost certaint, it is certain. The Pokemon Company and Nintendo are sueing (But I believe the Pokemon Company is co-owned by Gamefreak? The whole situation surrounding the ownership of the Pokemon IP is super confusing)
@@vyse4907 Not quite. TPC is basically meant to be the combination of three entities- Game Freak, Nintendo, and Creatures Inc. Thing is Game Freak really isn't at the head of things and only handles the game side of things. And they're definitely passionate about the games they make (Scarlet and Violet show this if you look past the bugs) but since they don't have the final say, they pretty much have to make a game when the other two demand it. The problem comes in that the games overall make some of the lesser amount of money than the TCG, Anime, or general merchandise, to the point that if they wanted, they could easily kick Game Freak off the group entirely, drop video games altogether, and keep Pokemon going outside of games if they wanted. This leads to basically being forced to make the games happen at the other two's (likely especially Nintendo's) demands, regardless of how far along it is or how optimized it may be. For example, there's a very strong implication that seasons were going to play an active role in S/V but had to be cut, likely due to time constraints. And they can't fix what they have because DLC MUST come out next. And when they finish that, they MUST get to work on the next game. Game Freak needs to be allowed to take their time on their games if TPC wants quality games. GF definitely cares about the games, but no dev can make a polished game when they're constantly having to rush and crunch. Though if Legends AZ is any indication so far, TPC may have learned that lesson.
I'm just saying bye to Nintendo overall. This is the pettiest thing i've seen a game company do in a while. Doesn't matter if they win or lose, i'm not gonna give them any of my money ever again
@@blackdust7353 I think it's mostly the Pokemon Company, and Nintendo was just dragged into this. If it was mostly or all Nintendo, we would've already seen so many more "patent infringement" lawsuits, knowing how many games (indie games especially) take inspiration from Nintendo games. The Pokemon Company is more protective than Nintendo is. Honestly, though, I see this as a win, because I've always viewed Pokemon as Nintendos worst franchise.
@@batmanbud2 Not impossible. I mean, most fangames or projects they take down are about Pokemon as well, but not all of them. I really don't like how Nintendo developed anyways, going against fans legit promoting their games with fangames and such for free out of love for the franchise, while also going with the safest routes for developing new games since the switch released. Totk alone was one of the biggest disappointments i've ever experienced. Most games i really enjoyed on my Switch aren't even from Nintendo. As for Pokemon: i can see why you don't like it, especially with the last like 10 years of games they released, but they were a lot of fun before turning 3D imo
Trademarks, patents, and copyrights are barely even comparable. If Nintendo invented the lightbulb, Palworld can't just invent the darkbulb and say "fair use." It's the same idea.
Dang... I'd never actually seen "Palworld" in action until now, and yeah, it really does look and feel a *lot* like "Pokemon Legends: Arceus", right down to the monster-sorting interface... It really does seem like they were seriously poking the bear by not even *trying* to make their game look different. Bizarre legal strategy...
Games like Temtem have every Pokémon mechanic, but Nintendo doesn't sue. They're only suing Palworld because they are the only mon game to get Pokémon levels of success.
My guess is they decided they can't *quite* actually sue on copyright infringement, so they decided to sue over patent infringement. Historically, gaming companies patent things all the time but very rarely actually sue over it. I wish I could remember what the video I watched recently all about video game patents was called...
100% it’s the pal spheres. When I played the game and saw pal spheres I KNEW a line was crossed. I even kept calling them “pokeballs” out of habit. I’m actually on Pal World’s side here-because if Nintendo doesn’t want to make the Pokémon game the market is demanding then someone else will fill that need-but yeah. It’s the fucking spheres. Achilles’ heel.
@@psychokinrazalon not really the guns, but a more "mature" pokemon game. Any creature collecting game is usually targeted at kids, which is not bad actually, everyone can still enjoy them, but this does bring something new to the table, that's why a lot of people feel attracted to these kind of games (we had that pokemon gun game before, we have horror pokemon romhacks, etc)
I think Pal World deserves to exist, but can we stop comparing it to Pokémon? It fills a completely different niche in the market, and all its those lies that have gotten the game into this mess in the first place. Let the project stand on its own merits
Its about patents, Nintendo has extremely vague ones it patented in may, after pal world came out. stuff like 'throwing objects' and 'riding on creatures' also due to the fact any sphere is a sphere, the pal spheres would an EXTREMELY difficult case to argue
Let Pokemon Legends Z-A take their time and copy Palworld and this time without Guns but teamwork between Trainers and Pokemon. Nintendo and the Pokemon Company will win or get along either way.
There is no moral justification for patenting game mechanics. It only helps major corporate conglomerates to prevent any healthy competition from emerging THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE ILLEGAL AGES AGO.
+firenze OR it keeps copycat hacks from flooding the market with knock-off trash. Sonic was inspired by Mario & took on Mario. It comes from similar roots but did different things with them. If we had things YOUR way, someone would just make Super Bario Bros. & it'd be a lame SMB clone. Keep the lame copycats hacks out of this business so we can get more quality work.
@@johnlucas1543 that doesn’t make any sense, the market is already flooded with copycats but quality and innovation makes the good stand out from the rest. Also, how is giving multibillionaires the right to shut down whoever they wish good in any way. I’m sorry but, This just makes no sense.
@@firenze6478 Quality & innovation stand out BECAUSE we have patents & copyright stemming the flood of copycat hacks making the industry even worse. Nintendo became multi-billionaires because they produced quality work & we purchased it. Unlike many companies in "The West" Nintendo pays their staff well with regular bonuses, gives them work-life balance, gives them a sense of stability & job security, & when things go bad, the top guys take the hit instead firing staff & opening golden parachutes. I wish more companies were LIKE Nintendo instead of UNLIKE them. Nintendo would have NEVER made a Concord. Nintendo would have NEVER wasted Halo. That pseudo-Leftist diatribe going around forgets about THE WORKERS at Nintendo, THE ARTISTS. Real "Left Wingers" remember THE WORKERS. They don't just blindly rail against "The Billionaires". Hiroshi Yamauchi made Nintendo a haven for artists first & foremost. He made sure the accountants didn't override the creative types in the company. They have no money to count if the artists don't create good work. THAT'S how Nintendo became multi-billionaires. THAT'S how every company who associates with them gets BETTER in what they do. Ask Rare, Retro Studios, Next Level Games, & now Mercury Steam. That's why I miss Sega's presence in this business. They competed with Nintendo but stayed ORIGINAL. A lot of gamers don't remember that era & think that what Pocket Pair did with Palworld should be normal. Sony & Microsoft have tainted the gaming space because they're not true gamemakers. They have no respect for the integrity of this business & these attitudes are reflected by the public. Nintendo made Punch-Out!! & Sega made Ready 2 Rumble Boxing. They are similar cartoony boxing games but distinct & ORIGINAL. PC Gaming's Quantity approach is poison to the Quality approach of Console Gaming led by Nintendo. Nintendo will protect its WORKERS, its ARTISTS & copycat hacks like Pocket Pair will lose in court.
@@johnlucas1543 You are describing copyright. This is a problem with patents. An example of how we had things *your* way is "SMB came out and Nintendo patented the game concept of a character moving across the screen and jumping. SEGA gets sued into oblivion and killed after Sonic 1 comes out and no 2D platformers will ever be born from non-Nintendo companies"
gameplay mechanic patents are bad for everyone out there, they are toxic and honestly should be abolished limiting developers doesn't lead to innovation because they can't take ideas and make them better, it doesn't lead to quality because it let's the owners of the patent stagnate, it's bad for games as art and as an industry
Would you mind pointing to the line where the lawsuit says "gameplay mechanic patters" (whatever that is?). Nobody knows which patterns they are referring to, yet every armchair lawyer is up in arms already. Love it.
They are bad, because then no other game in a genre can use it or expand on it. Which is why I think its stupid Rockstar wants to patent their NPC ai technology.
Arlo, Palworld did not "take the Pokémon concept". Monster taming games have existed since before Pokémon. Pretending otherwise is pure ignorance. Nintendo is literally bullying a smaller team (again) over ideas they didn't even invent, patents they didn't invent, and other claims that have been entirely debunked. That is absolutely not okay. I'm deeply upset and disappointed, and will no longer be supporting Nintendo. Dragon Quest 3 HD for the Switch, which I already pre-ordered beforehand, will be the last Nintendo product I ever purchase first-hand. After that, any Nintendo item I purchase will be second-hand so Nintendo doesn't see that money. The Pal designs don't even look like Pokémon, and Ultraseven did the whole "throw little device, monster goes in or out" thing WAY before Pokemon did! Nintendo has ZERO justification for this lawsuit! Palworld has not made any infringement, and Nintendo will try to buy their way into "winning". Stop being so hesitant to call out Nintendo.
also, if Nintendo wins this isn't bad just for Palworld, it could be bad for the ENTIRE Monster collecting genre: aka, Dragon Quest Monsters, Digimon, Shin Megami Tensei, Persona, Like a Dragon, Yokai Watch, etc
I doubt it will affect dragon quest, persona, and esspecially smt considering nintendo publishes dragon quest games outside of japan and the mainline smt games have been exclusive for nintendo systems for a while it would be really dumb to jeopardize the relationship with them, also if the theory of the patents being the ball smt and persona is save unless they make throwing balls the next persona summoning thing.
There have been so many games inspired by pokemon (Disc creatures, Coromon, Nexomon, Casette Beasts, etc.) there is no way they can win on mechanics alone IMO. Lets see how it goes.
My tinfoil hat theory is Nintendo filed the lawsuit because Palworld is coming to PlayStation. They don’t want a serious competitor within Japan. They can probably get Palworld removed from sale in Japan but not in the rest of the world.
The scariest part is that it is a patent lawsuit. The only real mechanic I can see being the one infringed on is the capturing mechanic, but doesn’t that just make it so Nintendo and TPC can sue anyone who tries to make a creature collector since you can’t have a creature collector without capturing the creatures. A monopoly on a game genre sounds so extremely scummy to me.
so we dont know for sure what patents being questioned here, but let me try to paint a better picture: the concept of capturing/collecting/using mosters is a very broad mechanic and seen in many games (~yokai watch, NiNoKuni). where its starting to get dodgy tho is, if that concept is implemented in a very specific way. Both palworld and pokemon uses spherical gacha like capsules, that are thrown in a specific way to capture or release a monster from or into battle. raising the similiarity by a lot and watering down brand recognition.
Arlo, although Japanese law is different than American law. I can guarantee you that they where given the exact patents when they where served the papers. One doesn't file lawsuit paperwork without such items listed so that the court can decided it's worth the time, or instant dismissal. The paperwork served to Pocket Pair HAD the patents listed.
Reminds me of Smash World Tour getting shut down by Nintendo. VGBC was told they wouldn’t be granted a license due to security concerns. VGBC neglected to explain this in the cancellation announcement, undoubtedly to save face with the competitive Smash community and fuel the hate mob against Nintendo. If Pocketpair knows what they’re being sued over, but feigning ignorance, that suggests knowledge of guilt on their part.
Nintendo going after pocketpair was expected, butthis reasoning was completely unexpected. i mean palworld gameplaywise is taken more from rust & ark . its the visual designs that are suspiciously similar, (there are many ways of designing flowers,dragons, wolves. But those are spesifically liligants flower on goodra & Lycanrocs recolour) But we shall see as the story develops, hopefully palworld will come out with a style to call its own.
@@kyuremthefrozen8539 No. Even PocketPair wrote in their statement that they have no idea which patents the lawsuit is referring to. Everything being discussed right now is wild speculation by fans.
Patenting game mechanics should be illegal period. It only helps massive corporations conglomerates abuse their power and eliminate creativity, and pick on the little guys. There is no moral justification for it whatsoever
Just gonna chime in with the others saying hey Arlo! It's not a copyright lawsuit! It's basically a backend programming lawsuit that Nintendo has enough intentionally vague patents on that they might be able to not 'win' but crush Palworld's devs in extended lawsuit fees, it's really really scummy. A nice info video on it (not calling anything scummy like I do) is by the smaller channel Video Game Story Time.
It's a patent under game design for the concept of throwing a ball to catch a monster. Concepts like lower HP making the monster more easy to catch in a ball. Nintendo copyrighted that while Palworld was in development.
If they really filed those patents so recently then they shouldn't be valid. A patent needs to be for a novel invention, something you made and sold millions of copies of almost 30 years ago wouldn't count.
This news is the final nail in the coffin for Nintendo for me. The level of contempt they have for their customers is just so offputting. They're clearly sore about Palworld's success. Even if the designs aren't legally infringing copyright, they are clearly very Pokemon-like. The only thing Nintendo can do is dip into its giant vault of patents. Patents that are so vague and far-reaching they could theoretically go after any studio they wanted. They have a patent for in-game items for throwing to catch and throwing to summon a partner, for example. The scummy part is they only patented this very recently, after Palworld's launch.
+newmansan No, they're actually not. Nintendo's morally right because they are protecting the work of their ARTISTS AKA their WORKERS. The Japanese public is on Nintendo's side, I don't know if you have noticed. Pocket Pair & Nintendo are both Japanese companies & the Japanese public sides with Nintendo. The "Western" public seems to side with Pocket Pair at least online. Ask yourself why that is. Could it have to do with the resentment elements of "The West" have over this Japanese company Nintendo conquering what was once an American industry? This is old old beef with many permutations but it all comes back to the 1980s when the NES eclipsed the PC.
So many people are being strangely reactionary over this when we don’t even understand what, exactly, Nintendo is suing over yet. It’s wild watching armchair lawyers jump to conclusions online and act as if Nintendo does or doesn’t have a case when we aren’t even sure what the supposed patent infringements are yet.
i think most people are just reactionarily opposed/concerned about patents in games regardless of whats happening with this specific instance.... honestly can't blame them
@@StormyG Most people who are opposed/concerned about patents in games haven't seen a patent in their life. They don't even know what a patent is. Following someone else's opinion blindly.
Totally agreed. Like, I’ll say it as much as I need to in this conversation- Nintendo are not targeting this game for being a similar genre as Pokemon. They’ve had plenty of Monster Catching games that are on past and present Nintendo consoles alongside Pokémon. And not just Pokémon- Mario Kart-likes, Smash-likes, Zelda-likes, Metroidvanias… It’s ridiculous to think they’re going to target the whole genre. Whatever Palworld has done, it has specifically caught Nintendo’s ire. And that’s what the professional lawyers and courts will decide.
@@hododod246 Bandai patenting loading screen minigames kept them out of games for years. Warner Bros. patenting the Nemesis system has kept it from being used in any games besides the two they made with it. Cut it out with the "oh people could only be opposed if they don't understand it, unlike myself so smart" bullshit, this shit has actively harmed innovation and iteration in the field.
@@oldred890 Oh typical BaNDAi PatenTED LoADIng ScreEN MiNI GAmes argument. How do you know that every single game wanted to put mini game to their loading screen after bandai namco invented that? Game dev's goal has always been getting rid of loading loading screens. Not making you spend time on there. Patent expired 2015. Did we see resurgence for loading screen minigames? No. On top of that there were games with loading screen mini games. Bayonetta 1 has loading screen minigame and it came before 2015. Patents encourages innovation. If PoketPair did their due dilligence and aware of patents, maybe they could have a unique game rather than this embarrassment of a game.
It's telling that Nintendo chose to go for a patent lawsuit. If Nintendo could have sued for copyright infringement they would have! Palworld didn't copy any of Pokemon's characters though, and so Nintendo had to resort to patent trolling. Weak, Nintendo. Pretty weak~
I don't hate Palworld though, but since Palworld allows the Pals to work until death different to Pokemon, I am not wanting Palworld anymore because of this, they copied the catching mechanic of Pokemon and almost copied the designs of Pokemon. I hope Nintendo, The Pokemon Company and Pocketpair will get along if possible. Or not at all
for the first time Nintendo finally decides to give Pokemon fans what they asked for, & of course they chose the toxic thing. Also, as many people pointed out, PalWorld is getting accused on Patent infringement, not Copyright infringement. Which means the Pals do NOT look like Pokemon as far as the law is concerned, but there are GAMEPLAY mechanics that are allegedly similar to Pokemon & usually, Patent lawsuits for game mechanics tend to not get very far
Something I just thought of. The side bringing the lawsuit is actually two litigants, The Pokemon Company AND Nintendo. I wonder if the patent infringment will go beyond just Pokemon, and bleed into the Breath of the Wild wall climbing mechanics and stuff too?
+SeafoamSmiles When Nintendo & The Pokémon Company took the equivalent of a woman's pregnancy to sue, that should send Red Flags to Pocket Pair about how deep a mess they are in. I believe will lose this case & HARD because of how much preparations has gone into this. Remember how cocky everyone was about Yuzu's chances before they folded a week later?
I honestly find this lawsuit kind of petty because this is one of the few monster tamers that found massive success and held their ground long enough to find a niche. If TPC felt "threatened" by Pocketpair, maybe they should just, you know, make a game that proves Pokemon is still king instead of suing any rising competition so they don't have to make the effort of building a properly functioning game? (I'm looking at you Scarlet and Violet) But, knowing about the BS that is Japanese law regarding copyright/patents, this will probably be one sided as always :\
The lawsuit has nothing to do with copyright nor trademark infringement, while some designs are similar nothing in Palworld crosses that line. The lawsuit is over game mechanic patents. Nintendo has a lot of broad, vague, and unspecific patents. stuff like 'riding on creatures'
This is the nemesis system nightmare scenario, a big studio filling lawsuits to bully developers from keeping from making games with machanics that resemble theirs, this is pretty bad for the gaming industry and if they win this will only make things worst for everyone
This lawsuit is about game mechanics, not designs. Game Freak could get sued by Square Enix, the owner of Dragon Quest and also Atlus with Shin Megami Tensei, as they clearly ripped off those designs 😂 The lawsuit covers the capturing of monsters with a ball, and the process model for deciding if a monster can be captured.
Jesus this is low for Nintendo... a patent lawsuit could be a major make it or break it moment for Pokemon. Either they win and the majority of similar games get hurt/shut down/stopped being developed or whatever (obviously the worst case scenario), OR they lose this lawsuit so spectacularly that they get shunned for it and may need to actually improve the quality of Pokemon going forward to compete in the industry (BEST case scenario) FYI I am not educated in law in the slightest so this may be all completely wrong so please do not attack me if it is
The fact that this is a patent case is crazy, Nintendo was so butthurt they couldn't do copyright that they went after patent. They won't even tell the Palworld devs what patent they violated. They have no idea.
For those unaware, supposedly patents in Japan can be very much sweeping in what they cover. This could be simply due to the success they tried to pursue this. I wouldn’t be surprised if it purely petty. At the same time tho, I wouldn’t be surprised if Palworld did, as they themselves have been very petty
I think that the designs are probably the REASON for the lawsuit, but filing a patent suit was a more sure-fire way to guarantee their case. It's why you don't see them attacking other games that MAY infringe on the patents as well, they weren't specifically TRYING to mimic Pokemon. The designs are extremely similar and some of the models do appear copied, but that isn't exactly easy to prove, even if they're nearly 1:1, recreations can happen. A patent on multiple mechanics (currently unclear which patents they are, despite what some people have been claiming) would be a lot easier to point to and confirm are being infringed on.
@joshstephens413 i think a lot of people sharing the same sentiment as you haven’t played the new games. PLA and SV are some of the best Pokémon games in general, I would say third place to gens 3 and 4. Really. You should look at the models for pokemon in scarlet and violet, they look amazing. (Also pokemon hasn’t existed for 30 years😉)
@@bigman4487That's not fair at all, it was popular because people liked it. It's a survival indie game, there's only so much content. Most dedicated fans have long since caught every pal and crafted every item. People moving on from the game does not somehow prove it was flawed, the devs even encouraged people to move on to other games if they were satisfied with it.
It’s not ‘funny’ if Nintendo bankrupts them over making a better creature catcher game than them in recent years, it’s ‘gross’ and stinks of sour grapes on Nintendos part. Really sours me on them as so called gameplay innovators if other small company’s can’t follow in their example. It just looks greedy and entitled. I guess ‘strictly business’ has to ruin the point of the products they produce. Loved the pokecube idea though 😂 Please don’t patent it Arlo
like 20 other people have probably said it but the lawsuit is for Patents, not Copyright There effectively trying to sue Palworld not for stealing Pokemon Designs or anything that people said they would, but for the gameplay resembling Pokemon. thats like if Metroid sued Hollow Knight for being an open mapped 2D platformer
I dunno what the specifics of the lawsuit are going to be, if we ever find out. But I am pretty certain whatever it is, it’s something specific Palworld is doing, and not something as general as keeping a monster in your pocket. I mean, Nintendo have had Pokémon-likes on their consoles before, as early as the GameBoy with Robopon to now with stuff like TemTem and Cassette Beasts. Nintendo knows good and well that just having a similar game on the market is not anything wrong. Pizza Tower closed the recent Indie World. They have Kart racers aplenty on Switch between Garfield, Sonic, Crash Bandicoot, Disney, and Dreamworks alongside Mario Kart. A game I very much enjoy, Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair, wears its Donkey Kong Country inspiration on its sleeve. Bugs Fables was on Switch long before Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door, and that game is a poster child of “we’ll do it ourselves!” You have things like Nick All Star Brawl alongside Smash. And Nintendo didn’t even bat an eye when Square released the very Splatoon-like Foamstars. So whatever Palworld has done, I can’t imagine it’s for anything that is surface level, like the basic concepts of catching the monsters in a sphere or something. And I VERY much doubt this will affect games of the same genre going forward. All the Insert Nintendo IP-Likes I listed surely attest to that fact. We just gotta wait and see what happens, since this isn’t exactly something any of us can really claim we know anything about.
finally a level headed take about it. they literally have not disclosed the specific patents they are suing for, we have no information to say who is or is not in the right here. we'll just have to wait and see.
@neorobin1833 why because this whole thing Nintendo is doing will effect everyone in a negative way and refusing to port their games on Nintendo platforms and removing thair games from the e shop as a form of protest
Its important to remember that Nintendo is a multi-billion dollar corporation. Even if they win the case, it may well not mean Palworld infringed on anything and instead mean that Nintendo simply had better and more aggressive lawyers. Strongarming lawsuits like this is Nintendo's forte, and they haven't always been in the right even when they won their cases.
In my opinion they would be this time whatever happens, If it comes out they were huge bullies I will have a problem, but Palworld did go over inspiration and that should be considered when we judge Nintendo even if the designs didn't have anything to do with the motivation for the lawsuit which is highly unlikely.
+GameAW1 All this talk about "corporations" forgets that Nintendo is a collection of ARTISTS. Nintendo is not just a Publisher, they are also a Developer. So all the phony "pseudo-Leftist" Robin Hood-type talk on this subject neglects to understand that the Artists are the WORKERS & the WORKERS must be protected. That's a REAL "Left Wing" perspective. Pocket Pair is ALSO a Corporation. The company is literally called Pocket Pair, Incorporated. And they may be a Corporation seeking to devalue Artists' work through Generative AI & other means. The Little Guy/Big Guy argument is irrelevant. It's not Little/Big, it's Right/Wrong. I have a feeling Pocket Pair is quietly being backed by Microsoft & Sony somehow in an attempt to undermine & usurp Nintendo. Between Microsoft, Sony, & Nintendo it is Nintendo who is the Little Guy between the 3. And this is why they must be so stringent in protecting their work against giant conglomerates like these.
@@Masaim6 It was never proven that Palworld plagiarized though and in fact on the topic of evidence, the detractors always either ignore the topic, change it, or insist they did without evidence. This borderline confirms that the claims of plagiarism are completely false. At worst, they have been very uninspired in some of them (Yes, even the Cinderace knockoff) but that alone does not amount to plagiarism. And in the case of using AI to generate the Pals, that's been so heavily debunked, even the detractors aren't using that anymore.
Similar monster designs aside, I don't think Palworld is deserving of all the hate, and I don't think the haters should've summoned Nintendo's wrath. I hope Nintendo loses.
I hope Nintendo loses millions of fans from this lawsuit. Especially if they win. If Pokemon still made great games then it may be easier to swallow, but Pokemon sucks ass at making games nowadays.
@@willhinrichs3678"If Pokémon still made great games" I see you decided to rip your own eyes so that you wouldn't see that the quality has stayed the same all this time
Месяц назад+2
I dont think the patent has to do with the capture method. Temtem would have been sunk years ago otherwise even if that game uses cards rather than spherical capsules. Theres a couple other games with capture methods for certain creatures as well that would have been in doubt if the issue was about a copycat pokeball.
Unfortunately Japanese laws and courts aren't known for being particularly fair. Nintendo is a very important to Japan culturally. Billions of dollars end up in Japan because of Pokemon specifically. It's likely Nintendo will either just get their way or be allowed to drag this out for years to choke out PocketPair. As reported, they have *never* lost a lawsuit in Japanese court. As for why, you did touch on it. I think we're giving Nintendo too much credit. I think this was reactionary to Palworld becoming a multimedia IP with help from Sony. With Sony's support we could even see more Palworld branded games that are actually similar to Pokemon. That makes it a legitimate threat to the world's most profitable multimedia franchise. Even if it's still currently a small threat. Nintendo effectively has a monopoly with Pokemon and they're not going to let anyone become competition without a fight. Tldr: Nintendo will use every privilege it has to kill Palworld and protect their cash cow.
Okay... But it's literally more about PATENTS rather than copyright, If Nintendo wins this case this could not only spell the end of the gaming industry, But the entertainment industry as a whole in the future. But mentioning that it's in Japanese court, This could LITERALLY spell doom for the entertainment industry on a GIGANTIC margin. I feel like you're taking this more lightly. It's scary actually.
The fact that your TemTems, your Cassette Beasts and hell your Digimon monster collecting games are both doing fine and don't draw this attention means Nintendo have definitely got *something* on Palworld concrete. Nintendo winning will not be the end of other monster catchers.
On one hand, this is just The Pokémon Company's pathological insecureness rearing its ugly head once again. On the other, Pocketpair created a game explicitly (and admitted as much) using the same self-destructive trend-chasing quote-unquote "strategy" as Concord, only to act coy about putting players first and being respectful "fans" of their "inspiration" whenever called out on the very, _very_ suspicious similarities between Palworld and the Pogeys. Honestly, Pocketpair had it coming, despite them thinking they could get away with everything.
+alessandrobozzi In other words, Pocket Pair went All In against a player with a Royal Flush on the River. The other player called the bluff of the one with the Pocket Pair. And now they will win all the chips on the table.
I seriously doubt that the patent in question is about the general mechanics of capturing monsters to fight with them (many games both before and after the original Pokémon, including Shin Megami Tensei and Digimon, have used similar mechanics and structure). Most likely it has something specific to do with a codebase or some other resource Nintendo/Game Freak created, was ripped and put online, and someone at Pocket Pair pulled it off the internet or ripped it himself from a Pokémon game without checking whether it was a patented system. Patents don't just cover abstract concepts, but the design and structure of actual objects (or in the case of software like video games, overall structure of a computer application's code and stuff like its file structure, function-interactions, and other features). Either way, we won't know until Nintendo actually submits the suite what specific patent was infringed.
I feel bad for Palworld and various monster franchises like Digimon, Monster Rancher, Yu-Gi-Oh, Neopets, Yo-Kai Watch, Bakugan, Monster Hunter, Monsuno, TemTem, or Moshi Monsters. Pokèmon should be ashamed of itself on bullying other monster franchises as well as monopolizing the monster taming genre.
Well, most of these franchises are still around, and they were bullied by Pokmon fans most of the time. Digimon is still around, and most people outside of Japan have called it a clone of Pokemon, and do not support it. Yu-Gi-Oh is still around, so I'm unsure why you brought it up. Yo-Kai Watch did very well for itself, but it didn't catch on that well. Tem-Tem was only supported because people wanted a Pokemon Killer, which backfired in all their faces. If anything, Pokemon fans are to blame for why these other ones didn't do that well. That's just my thought.
Yokai Watch deserved better but everyone decided to not only be racist but also hostile and murder it to the ground. The Pokemon community got what they deserved with “underwhelming games” so I hope you all learned your lesson but chances are you haven’t and will continue to do it again.
I have to disagree with the (likely popular) idea that Palworld is Pokemon for adults. The only "adult" thing they added is shock-value content like killing and eating your mons. The first Pokemon games had a cemetery haunted with mon-ghosts, so it's not like they added death to make it more "realistic," it's all just meme-bait. And boy, was it effective. A lot of people are repeating the claim that because this is a patent lawsuit and not copyright, it must be related to catching creatures in balls or some other game-mechanic thing; but I have no idea if there's any evidence behind this or if it's just a theory they heard from another youtuber (I'm guessing the latter). There were a few cases where Pal 3D models lined up perfectly with Pokemon ones, so that's also a likely target. We'll have to wait and see what comes out of this.
@@busterkich68 Wrong, byofrog only admitted to 1:1 universal scaling the models, then a bunch of Palworld fans who don't know anything about modeling tried to claim that's "lying by editing the models" when the models were unchanged.
Fun fact: Whatever you do, there is always someone with a patent you are infringing. Every BS is patented somewhere, and you cannot know you break the law unless you know all patents that are out there and you cannot do that.
0:40 the model theivory is bunk but I would not be surprised if they literally used a color picker for some pokemon color pallets for some of them. Which by the way *isnt illegal.*
On one hand, it’s another Nintendo lawsuit, and that does really suck. On the other hand, PocketPair were sitting on one of the biggest ticking timebombs in gaming. They really should be scared that Nintendo took this long, let alone specifying that it’s a patent. A part of me wants to say ‘I told you so’ because it was bound to happen. The balls on them to do this while sitting in Nintendo’s backyard is impressive. On the third hand, The Pokemon Company kind-of deserved atleast a sting that was Palworld with just how depressingly poor their games have been (and still are) on a technical and mechanics standpoint for years.
If I were them I would call MS and ask them to sort this out...let's see what Nintendo can do against the bigger boys....they seem to bully small creators, so hope MS or some1 puts them in their place
I desperately hope Nintendo fails on this lawsuit. I didn’t love Palworld personally but it was nice to see something Pokémon adjacent that was made with some intentionality. The Pokémon company has been releasing subpar games for so long now that it would be great if this forced them to at least have something resembling competition
Yeah that's nonsense. They waited because the more Palworld makes, the more they can sue for. If Nintendo wanted a takedown, they could have made that happen near release
+DarkMeridian0 My man, there is such thing as statute of limitations. Whatever is within the time limit to sue, you can sue. But it IS better to sue someone who actually has something to pay than someone who is broke. Pocket Pair? Meet the Royal Flush.
@@johnlucas1543 the statute of limitations is very lax for civil suits. There are a bunch of rules that push it forward. Its also a Japanese lawsuit, which is a whole other can of worms. To my limited knowledge, the Japanese courts are much more hawkish about copyright. Like, fair use just doesn't exist
@@DarkMeridian0 Yep, that's right. Fair use is not a concept in Japan as Team Four Star found out the hard way on DBZ Abridged. DBZ Abridged IS an example of honest use of material with a transformative implementation & STILL the Japanese owners of DragonBall were itchy about it. I would read Japanese Twitter for REAL insight on this as folks in "The West" are bogged down by this arrogant belief that only THEY know what's best for a situation over a Japanese company. Japanese Twitter by & large look at Pocket Pair as the thieves they are & are not swayed by the public appeal of "aw shucks, i'm a itty-bitty indie company". Pokémon are on manhole covers & airplanes in Japan & when you go to the airport you are greeted with Nintendo characters like Mario. It's a mentality of national pride over there with this stuff. It's a mentality over principle & they think Pocket Pair has violated key principles. So understand that Nintendo is not losing this lawsuit in Japan whatsoever. And patented game design I learned is not even controversial to them over there. I learned in reading one of the translated conversations that Capcom sued Koei-Tecmo on this kind of stuff & won the case. The general feeling is that if Pocket Pair is in violation than they must be punished. The phony Robin Hood "pseudo-Leftist" Big Evil Corp vs. Little Good Indie narrative is not even considered. They think Pocket Pair is an insult to the indie scene too because they stole from indies too. No way in hell Nintendo loses this case ESPECIALLY with all of the preparation they have undertaken. Not to mention possible connections of Pocket Pair to both Microsoft & Sony in all of this. Sony took Palworld off its list for Tokyo Game Show before the lawsuit dropped. That means they had some idea something was coming & got ahead of it in time.
Patents only exist to stifle competition. If someone is taking your idea and doing it better, then instead of suing, use this time to better your mechanics and compete with those people.
Patents exist to let you profit from years of development. If I spend $1billion over 10 years to invent the first smart phone, but there's no protection, it means you undercut me by coming along with an exact copy that's 75% cheaper. That means I lose all my money, go bankrupt and no-one will ever risk investing in innovation. Patents are a necessary evil. And they don't last that long anyway, 20 years max.
Arlo, you know how Vehemently Nintendo pursues legal matters, going for the throat is their go to especially if someone is making money they think they deserve. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo doesn't just sue them for compensation but asks for so much Pocket Pair either has to turn over Palworld to them or they get absorbed into Nintendo. Palworld is one of the closest IPs pokemon has ever had to potential real competition outside of Digimon and some knock offs. So much so that Sony Music and another company just ended negotiations with them to franchise Palworld AND Palworld just ended raising money for charity with RUclipsrs. So the fact that Nintendo is going after them for Patent Infringement means they wanna make sure any threat to their empire is crushed before it can franchise any further. I mean PocketPair hasn't even been served the lawsuit yet and Nintendo ANNOUNCED they were filing before even telling them they were being sued, their making it a spectacle so everyone can see them Crush PocketPair.
You did not read into this enough before responding. And suggesting PocketPair redesign all their creatures to avoid a ridiculous and abusive lawsuit, is pathetic Nintendo bootlicking. Not to mention, the creature designs ARE legally distinct, the lawsuit is a patent lawsuit, not IP.
I feel like Nintendo will not win a lawsuit like this, but I feel like Pocket Pair will just settle for financial reasons. Winning against Nintendo will be very expensive and indeed maybe slightly tweaking some stuff to keep them happy and paying a (relatively) small fee might be the way to go. It truely sucks imo, patenting game mechanics is one of the worst things a company can do and I reallly hope Nintendo loses this.
Why the hell are all the comments trying to correct people about how it's over patents and not over copyright? Didn't this video clarify as much? Now yall got ME looking confused. >.< Yes, this is me apologizing for a mistake made in a previous (now deleted) comment. I just don't get why people are re-explaining a correction that was already made in the video???
The issues is people refuse to believe that the pals are different enough to not be in danger of copyright thats why they are using pantents wich is not at all a good thing for anyone
That is a claim of unclear origin, circulating in the Palworld community. This variation is especially nonsensical considering that the first Dragon Quest Monsters game was released on September 25, 1998 in Japan, long after the first Pokémon games which were released in 1996. In fact, the game is likely a result of Enix trying to profit from the success of Pokémon by fusing some of the ideas with their own dragon quest IP. The difference to Palworld being, that DQM used their own designs for the monsters. It is actually an example for the difference between being "inspired" by another game and just blatantly copying. Other variations of the rumor claim that the original Dragon Quest RPGs somehow inspired Pokémon, which may well be but I don't see what the point of that argument would be? Neither are the mainline Dragon Quest games about catching monsters, nor do Pokémon look so similar to Dragon Quest designs, that one could confuse the two. TL;DR - this is just a desperate attempt to argue that Pokémon must have been inspired by something else. While that may be true, it did not copy anything so closely that it could be confused for that other thing. Neither did DQM, Digimon, Monster Ranchers nor any other game, Series or whatever that used a similar concept.
@@vyse4907 ", nor do Pokémon look so similar to Dragon Quest designs, that one could confuse the two." Tell me with a straight face that Dragon Quest's Crabid wasn't copied with Pokemon's Krabby. It's literally the same design, Krabby just has its mouth closed. That's far more infringing than anything in PalWorld. LMAO
@@0llyMelancholy Before I go deeper into this: You are ignoring the main argument and singling out a part of the statement and try to twist it into a different discussion.That being said: *Straight face* It wasn't. First of all, both of these are inspired by real world crabs and were then stylized by the designers in a way that matched the rest of the monsters in that game. Secondly, having one or two monsters somewhat resemble each other is no issue. Having all of your monster designs look like they are from another game with some looking like they are essentially a copy of the mesh with minor tweaks is. DQ and Pokémon may have an overlap here or there, but they use a different design language (which is the point and the reason why those games never had a situation like we have now with palworld). Design language is basically what lets you recognize a set of different design elements as a matching set. e,g. what let's you differentiate pokemon from dragon quest designs. Somewhat like the RUclips UI does not look like the Facebook UI despite both of them having buttons. You recognize them as buttons, but they were designed with different philosophies and concepts in mind, thus resulting in a different look. If Palworld was a UI, what they did was "Copy the youtube button, but change the font from bold to regular". Likewise, I am sure you can find a million games with crab based monsters that look similar, but the way they are designed is based on the logic of whoever designed them. With Pals however, they intentionally went for looking as indistinguishable from Pokemon by copying the entire aesthetic/design language which is why this whole thing became a problem with this game and not with any other.
It took them this long because they were busy making more patents. A few of them just took effect a few days ago and supposedly enforceable retroactively.
I'm pretty sure the reason they're actually going after Palworld is because they basically wagged their butt in Nintendo's face and made flippant disregard of the entire Pokemon franchise. There's been plenty of other monster capture games like this that have come out that weren't being so clearly disrespectful to the original source material it was basically ripping from that Nintendo left well enough alone. I'm not like, coming to Nintendo big company's defense here, but there's no reason I think to be afraid they'll do this to a bunch of other games. This definitely just seems like a special case of being annoyed at the Palworld devs in specific. Edit: Adding a bit more to say that I'm even more confident in my feeling on this because Nintendo is a Japanese company. Respect and Proper Manner is really important over there, and I really wouldn't be surprised if the higher ups just feel like this is a huge slap in the face for no real reason to make a quick buck. Palworld (whether the game is good or not is up for debate) DOES basically have all of its success to attribute to its similarity to Pokemon. If it was just another random monster catching sim nobody would have batted an eye, I'm pretty sure. Maybe they would have gotten moderate success. But to become a sensational hit over mocking and messing with the Pokemon brand while basically copying a bunch of designs and quite a few mechanics and design language is bound to get these kind of people upset.
Just that nobody knows which patents they are referring to, not even PocketPair. Claiming that it is any gameplay mechanic is pure speculation at the moment.
Literally the only thing about this that I find surprising is that they didn't get sued sooner. I fully expected Nintendo to kill Palworld before it even launched. The fact that it was able to release at all and made it nearly 10 months without the full force of Nintendo crashing down on them must be something of a minor miracle.
Reminder that this lawsuit is not a copyright lawsuit and so Nintendo is not suing over any design of any of the monsters. It is a PATENT lawsuit
If they win this is bad for any creature catcher game out there
It's a patent lawsuit only cause that's probably the only angle Nintendo has. The designs are JUST different enough that they aren't legally the same but anyone with any knowledge of Pokemon can see the similarities. The patent is just the excuse to go after PocketPair.
Not saying this is a good thing mind you, just an explanation
Yup and apparently the patent was made when Palworld was released.
@@flow185 I'm no lawyer, but I think patent includes the use of in-game assets. My guess is that the claim people were making Palworld literally using Pokemon models has some merit to them. If that is the case, then it shouldn't negatively effect other creature-catching games as long as they aren't also taking Pokemon models. Like I said, this is just a guess though
@@flow185I mean Palworld was MADE to fly in the face of Pokémon. If they really get hit by this then it was only an inevitability
I wrote a business law paper literally 2 days ago about Nintendo's legal responses to indie projects and specifically used Palworld as an example, thank god it was due then and not today, probably making me need to rewrite the whole thing
Man, that would of SUCKED
Ahh but the teacher is marking this now, and will look at the news and say, 'didn't include the lawsuit! Fail!'
I'm pretty sure they'd give you a pass if you dated it
If it was about copyright, you're still good.
If it's about legal responses in general, you're screwed.
In that scenario, all you need to do is include a FN and state that you’re aware of recent developments but they are outside the scope of this paper. And then keep it moving.
People seem really uneducated about what Nintendo is suing Palworld for. Its for supposed PATENT infringement, so no not the designs of the characters (which would be copyright). A patent infringement is likely to be something like a gameplay mechanic or something along those lines. Again this lawsuit is not about copyright infringement.
Also a point of misunderstanding is that Nintendo has dozens, if not hundreds, of Pokemon-related patents that other companies infringe all the time. Nintendo hardly ever sues them over stolen ideas, except when the suspect is so disrespectful and arrogant. And Pocketpair has been very much so. (It’s generally understood in Japan that Nintendo patents stuff to prevent from others to make the patents exclusive which isn’t good for the industry. Nintendo is quite generous when it comes to gameplay patents.)
So its a frivolous lawsuit since Palworld doesnt use Nintendos code
@@chiquita683It wouldn't need to be code. Remember, stuff like "the concept of mini-games on loading screens" and "having a single enemy level up if they defeat you and have this reflected in the world" are owned by single companies for some reason
@@BJGvideos fortunately the mini game loading screen patent has expired
@@theboogiewoogiebugleboy6983 About damn time
It's not about the designs. That's copyright. Nintendo is not suing for copyright, but for patents. It's not about the models but about the gaming mechanics. Which of them, we don't know.
If they're only suing for mechanics then the only thing I can really think of is throwing the ball to capture creatures
It can still be about the models. In fact, if the issue was that there was literal copying-and-pasting of the 3D assets it's probably an easier get on Patent than copyright.
@@eclipsicalbluestocking1182 Nexomon uses a similar concept. Not sphere, but triangle-shape capture tool.
I don’t see Nintendo going after them. Then again it might be niche enough to not be noticed.
But, this is ridiculous.
No, you can‘t patent designs. You can tradmark designs, but not patent them. The only way I could see, the designs violating a patent, would be, if the way the designs were created was patented, but I highly doubt, that was the case, that Nintendo invented some kind of new patentable process for designing pokemons.
@@tirex3673 you can patent the code behind creating those designs, as a mechanical way to construct extremely specific geometric objects (think Primarina's hair).
I think Nintendo went the patent route because they figure their odds of winning are much higher. Copyright and patents are different laws, but both would ultimately lead to the same result (assuming a win), but in court they would have to prove very different things. There is no reason to sue over both at once, so they simply picked the one that is more in their favour.
brief explanation for everyone: patents enforce concepts, not implementations. The patent holder doesn't even need to have their own product to have a patent, as long as they describe it specifically enough and pay the fee to file it. So it's not about "copying", if someone does the concepts described in the patent, the holder has grounds to sue.
yes, the system is broken and it's still morally questionable but it's not about copyright or trademark so stop bringing up arguments about them into the conversation
The copyright makes sense in the picture as Nintendo is obviously suing *because* of it.
@@Masaim6 Yeah it's pretty obvious that they're using the patents as a excuse. Which just shows off how abusable the patent system can be
@@TheMightySceptile The thing is I think it's their right when they were so blatantly copied.
@@Masaim6 I would agree if they were suing for trademark or copyright. Which I'm assuming they didn't do because even the most blatant copy pals are barely legally distinct enough.
I think being able to patent and sue over a gameplay concept is morally wrong and stifling to the industry. Even if palworld did essentially steal some pokemon designs, that's not what their getting sued for.
Also I feel no sympathy for nintendo because they allowed pokemon to get into the state that it's in. Where a knock off game in early beta, made by an actually small indie team, is able to be a better experience that runs better than their most recent games
What I think is messed up patent wise, is that there are also monster catching games like nexomon that they could also sue over patents for, but they directly targeted palworld. Nexomon isn't new either, it's BEEN out and even has a sequel.
Nintendo just directly and indirectly handed arlo an entire buffet's worth if news to talk about in the last 48 hours and Im here for it
My issue with the Patent stuff is that it's actually arguable that Temtem and Nexomon actually were even closer to Pokemon than Palworld is in its catching systems, and yet Nintendo did nothing. Nintendo only seems to now care when 19 million players are playing the game as opposed to a few hundred thousand. At the end of the day, you can't patent throwing a trap, or the logic that if you are closer to something that your odds of catching something are better - this is beyond common sense and obvious. On top of this, Palworld has the three RNG rolls for its spheres, which mechanically makes it different than all of these other games. I don't actually think Nintendo can win this, and I actually want them to lose because I don't want to live in a world where Palworld cannot be made. The whole experience of Palworld is actually quite fun and innovative, and I say this as a long-time fan of Pokemon. I actually want these two companies to compete with each other, because we're only going to get better open world Pokemon games as a result.
Hopefully this trend of Nintendo not defending its patents in other games will get the Palworld devs to win the case.
Nintendo's upset because Pocket Pair are their lunch. 😂 Too bad that a 1994 case similar to this works _against_ Nintendo in this instance: Capcom vs Data East.
@@kildaver Oh? You have my curiosity.
@@kildaverThat case has literally no bearing on this one, they happened in different countries.
There is only a few hundred thousand people playing Palworld. It dropped off hard. That’s really no issue to Nintendo at all.
Nintendo would not be doing this if they weren’t very sure that they had a legitimate case, patents are very specific things so Palworld has to have done something specific to have brought this.
What about TemTem? If it's a patent case, I'd say that game's mechanics are about the same if not more similar to Pokemon, but that one's been able to coexist with Pokemon just fine. You go from town to town in a linear fashion, you fight gym leaders after completing a small puzzle dungeon, there's a team-Rocket-esque enemy faction, there's evolution, type matchups, special overworld tools for traversal, etc etc.
i think it could be one of two things:
1. theyre going after a game mechanic that pokemon and palword share that temtem does not have (idk what that could be)
2. they'll go after temtem if they win this case
They dont care, its just that.
their Patents cover A LOT of actions different games make use for, Not even Monster Catchers
It would be hilarious if Nintendo decided to take down Temtem, considering Temtem is already on the effing Switch.
@donuko They are going for Pocketpair because the game sold exceedingly well and is a real competition against pokemon. And we know they can't compete, so they will patent troll the small guys to the mud.
I think changing anything before the lawsuit would essentially admit guilt on Palworld's part and obviously that would be used against them in said lawsuit.
What would they even change? PocketPair wrote in their statement that they are unaware of the patents the lawsuit is referring to. Which is by design, because they probably don't want them to be able to prepare for what they will be accusing them. It will come out in court, what the whole thing is actually about.
@@vyse4907 The worst part here is those patents were filed either just before or just after Palworld released in early access.
Why do people even want this?
Considering what the lawsuit is about not really. The lawsuit is about Gameplay Patents, nothing to do with the Pal designs. Also they have already changed some Pal designs already. Very small changes but still.
@@vyse4907geez in American courts you have to lay EVERYTHING on the table before hand....despite legal dramas making it seem like a big reveal surprise fest. That's not a thing
The scary thing, is that they aren't being sued for copyright infringement, but... patent infringement.
Like, what?! Did Nintendo Legit patent the pokemon mechanics and nobody can make pokemon like games?????
This is very concerning.
No, they did not. People have been making Pokémon-like games since before Pokémon was a thing. It is fundamentally impossible to patent a genre.
It seems like it may have to do with the 3rd person aiming to capture creatures and switchable ridable creatures mechanics that Palworld borrows from Legends Arceus from what I've seen people mention.
Games did this before pokemon@@ApolloDawn85
It shouldn’t be concerning in the slightest. Nintendo have allowed other Monster Catching games on their consoles past and present.
Robopon, TemTem, Cassette Beasts, Digimon, heck, as far as I can tell, a franchise like Yo-Kai Watch has been near exclusive to Nintendo consoles, the odd port here or there notwithstanding.
Pokémon-likes aren’t the problem, it’s just Palworld. Maybe they’re guilty, maybe not, that’s what the lawyers and courts will decide.
We, as outsiders, just need to use our critical thinking skills are realize “no, Pokemon-likes aren’t in danger.”
@@wootmasterzorsxDont forget SMT
I spent the better part of a day reading and categorizing pages and pages of Pokemon’s patents.
They are all at once ridiculously broad, vague, and specific. Essentially an assurance that they can eliminate any competition. Things like “An item on a screen is thrown at another character to capture or fight them”, “an item is thrown that affects the chances of capturing a character on screen”, “A character on screen can interact with an object to transition between ground, air, or water by pressing a key.” They’ve patented the minutiae of everything they possibly could.
I hope the Palworld devs can fight and have these ridiculous patents invalidated. Nintendo's legal division needs to be humbled.
How are patents even remotely fair?
Evil.
@@derekw8039 OH that’s the best part! They aren’t!
@@derekw8039That’s capitalism.
Their just jealous that pikachu can’t pull out a Glock mid battle and cap a mf
Im pretty sick of the pokemon company having a monopoly on Pokémon style games so i hope they lose. They really deserve it
Waiting till we get the full details to make a judgement but if they are legit just suing because Palworld has a ball you throw at the monsters or because of their day night cycle then not only is that stupid but it also sets a SCARY precedent
If true it's honestly in the realms of pettiness.
Oh no! you copied a mechanic we copied from baseball and nature from our game that was inspired by Dragon Quest! How Dare!
This really is the best option for now. Until we actually see what patents Nintendo is suiing over we we can't really judge how petty or valid that suit is.
Not sure what exactly is scary about "they're suing for patents", we don't even know what patents they're talking about. Anything relating to the core formula of Pokemon expired 20 years ago(in US systems, not sure how long japanese patents last).
Everyone is too busy correcting others that it's a patent and not copyright. This could mean less new games if you can't be inspired.
@@breloopharos1919You can be inspired, you’re just not allowed to steal.
Pokemon patenting the idea of capturing monsters to use in battle is so incredibly stupid to me because they didn't even come up with that idea at all, Shin Megami Tensei already was doing this YEARS before Pokemon was even a thing and that shouldnt be able to stop anyone else from doing something with that idea but just with their own spin on it.
We don't know what patents they're suing about. Literally we know NOTHING about this lawsuit, for all we know Nintendo is in the right.
If it is the catching monster mechanic than why are temtem and cassette beasts in the switch store far as I know you get to catch monsters as well as monster hunter stories
@@logansmith2703or the WRONG.
This is Nintendo Lawyers we’re talking about.
@@logansmith2703there is no right to side to weaponizing patenting gameplay features
We don't even know which patent(s) they're suing over. They've got hundreds.
Yeah I'm actually starting with this one.
Nintendo as always petty and pathetic.
Game Freak has billions of dollars for lawyers, but no money for developing good games.
This is almost certainly The Pokémon Company behind the lawsuit, not Game Freak.
I agree with your greater point, though.
@@chaoticcranium It is not almost certaint, it is certain. The Pokemon Company and Nintendo are sueing (But I believe the Pokemon Company is co-owned by Gamefreak? The whole situation surrounding the ownership of the Pokemon IP is super confusing)
@@vyse4907 Not quite. TPC is basically meant to be the combination of three entities- Game Freak, Nintendo, and Creatures Inc. Thing is Game Freak really isn't at the head of things and only handles the game side of things. And they're definitely passionate about the games they make (Scarlet and Violet show this if you look past the bugs) but since they don't have the final say, they pretty much have to make a game when the other two demand it.
The problem comes in that the games overall make some of the lesser amount of money than the TCG, Anime, or general merchandise, to the point that if they wanted, they could easily kick Game Freak off the group entirely, drop video games altogether, and keep Pokemon going outside of games if they wanted. This leads to basically being forced to make the games happen at the other two's (likely especially Nintendo's) demands, regardless of how far along it is or how optimized it may be. For example, there's a very strong implication that seasons were going to play an active role in S/V but had to be cut, likely due to time constraints. And they can't fix what they have because DLC MUST come out next. And when they finish that, they MUST get to work on the next game.
Game Freak needs to be allowed to take their time on their games if TPC wants quality games. GF definitely cares about the games, but no dev can make a polished game when they're constantly having to rush and crunch. Though if Legends AZ is any indication so far, TPC may have learned that lesson.
@@vyse4907 Moon Channel made a video about who owns TPC very recently if the topic interests you
Palworld is the bad game and Pokémon the good one.
I think you got things mixed up
This is like trying to trademark the word “react” if Nintendo wins this, then say bye to this genre outside of Pokémon
I'm just saying bye to Nintendo overall. This is the pettiest thing i've seen a game company do in a while. Doesn't matter if they win or lose, i'm not gonna give them any of my money ever again
Never liked the genre anyway. I especially won't miss it if Pokemon dies, too.
@@blackdust7353 I think it's mostly the Pokemon Company, and Nintendo was just dragged into this. If it was mostly or all Nintendo, we would've already seen so many more "patent infringement" lawsuits, knowing how many games (indie games especially) take inspiration from Nintendo games. The Pokemon Company is more protective than Nintendo is. Honestly, though, I see this as a win, because I've always viewed Pokemon as Nintendos worst franchise.
@@batmanbud2 Not impossible. I mean, most fangames or projects they take down are about Pokemon as well, but not all of them.
I really don't like how Nintendo developed anyways, going against fans legit promoting their games with fangames and such for free out of love for the franchise, while also going with the safest routes for developing new games since the switch released. Totk alone was one of the biggest disappointments i've ever experienced. Most games i really enjoyed on my Switch aren't even from Nintendo.
As for Pokemon: i can see why you don't like it, especially with the last like 10 years of games they released, but they were a lot of fun before turning 3D imo
Trademarks, patents, and copyrights are barely even comparable. If Nintendo invented the lightbulb, Palworld can't just invent the darkbulb and say "fair use." It's the same idea.
Dang... I'd never actually seen "Palworld" in action until now, and yeah, it really does look and feel a *lot* like "Pokemon Legends: Arceus", right down to the monster-sorting interface...
It really does seem like they were seriously poking the bear by not even *trying* to make their game look different. Bizarre legal strategy...
Even if it wasn't 'copied', it's too damn close
Games like Temtem have every Pokémon mechanic, but Nintendo doesn't sue. They're only suing Palworld because they are the only mon game to get Pokémon levels of success.
Woah, three videos right at the same time?? You spoil us, Arlo!
My guess is they decided they can't *quite* actually sue on copyright infringement, so they decided to sue over patent infringement. Historically, gaming companies patent things all the time but very rarely actually sue over it. I wish I could remember what the video I watched recently all about video game patents was called...
100% it’s the pal spheres. When I played the game and saw pal spheres I KNEW a line was crossed. I even kept calling them “pokeballs” out of habit.
I’m actually on Pal World’s side here-because if Nintendo doesn’t want to make the Pokémon game the market is demanding then someone else will fill that need-but yeah. It’s the fucking spheres. Achilles’ heel.
The market wanted guns in Pokemon?
@@psychokinrazalon not really the guns, but a more "mature" pokemon game.
Any creature collecting game is usually targeted at kids, which is not bad actually, everyone can still enjoy them, but this does bring something new to the table, that's why a lot of people feel attracted to these kind of games (we had that pokemon gun game before, we have horror pokemon romhacks, etc)
I think Pal World deserves to exist, but can we stop comparing it to Pokémon? It fills a completely different niche in the market, and all its those lies that have gotten the game into this mess in the first place. Let the project stand on its own merits
Good riddance imo
Its about patents, Nintendo has extremely vague ones it patented in may, after pal world came out. stuff like 'throwing objects' and 'riding on creatures' also due to the fact any sphere is a sphere, the pal spheres would an EXTREMELY difficult case to argue
Nintendo fanboys defending a corporation
Nintendo has had almost 30 years to reap profits from Pokémon. It's time to allow some competition.
temtem and cassette beasts and various other games are gonna be just fine
I think they just considered palworld to be crossing a line
No company should be able to automatically win any lawsuit they want just because they have a lot of money.
I have a feeling this will blow up in Nintendo's face considering they filed those patents IN RESPOSE to Palworld.
As a pokemon fan, I hope Nintendo loses.
Let Pokemon Legends Z-A take their time and copy Palworld and this time without Guns but teamwork between Trainers and Pokemon. Nintendo and the Pokemon Company will win or get along either way.
There is no moral justification for patenting game mechanics.
It only helps major corporate conglomerates to prevent any healthy competition from emerging
THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE ILLEGAL AGES AGO.
+firenze OR it keeps copycat hacks from flooding the market with knock-off trash.
Sonic was inspired by Mario & took on Mario. It comes from similar roots but did different things with them.
If we had things YOUR way, someone would just make Super Bario Bros. & it'd be a lame SMB clone.
Keep the lame copycats hacks out of this business so we can get more quality work.
@@johnlucas1543 that doesn’t make any sense, the market is already flooded with copycats but quality and innovation makes the good stand out from the rest.
Also, how is giving multibillionaires the right to shut down whoever they wish good in any way.
I’m sorry but, This just makes no sense.
@@firenze6478 Quality & innovation stand out BECAUSE we have patents & copyright stemming the flood of copycat hacks making the industry even worse.
Nintendo became multi-billionaires because they produced quality work & we purchased it.
Unlike many companies in "The West" Nintendo pays their staff well with regular bonuses, gives them work-life balance, gives them a sense of stability & job security, & when things go bad, the top guys take the hit instead firing staff & opening golden parachutes.
I wish more companies were LIKE Nintendo instead of UNLIKE them.
Nintendo would have NEVER made a Concord. Nintendo would have NEVER wasted Halo.
That pseudo-Leftist diatribe going around forgets about THE WORKERS at Nintendo, THE ARTISTS.
Real "Left Wingers" remember THE WORKERS. They don't just blindly rail against "The Billionaires".
Hiroshi Yamauchi made Nintendo a haven for artists first & foremost.
He made sure the accountants didn't override the creative types in the company.
They have no money to count if the artists don't create good work.
THAT'S how Nintendo became multi-billionaires. THAT'S how every company who associates with them gets BETTER in what they do. Ask Rare, Retro Studios, Next Level Games, & now Mercury Steam.
That's why I miss Sega's presence in this business. They competed with Nintendo but stayed ORIGINAL.
A lot of gamers don't remember that era & think that what Pocket Pair did with Palworld should be normal.
Sony & Microsoft have tainted the gaming space because they're not true gamemakers.
They have no respect for the integrity of this business & these attitudes are reflected by the public.
Nintendo made Punch-Out!! & Sega made Ready 2 Rumble Boxing.
They are similar cartoony boxing games but distinct & ORIGINAL.
PC Gaming's Quantity approach is poison to the Quality approach of Console Gaming led by Nintendo.
Nintendo will protect its WORKERS, its ARTISTS & copycat hacks like Pocket Pair will lose in court.
@@johnlucas1543 You are describing copyright. This is a problem with patents.
An example of how we had things *your* way is "SMB came out and Nintendo patented the game concept of a character moving across the screen and jumping. SEGA gets sued into oblivion and killed after Sonic 1 comes out and no 2D platformers will ever be born from non-Nintendo companies"
It sounds like they’re trying to sue over pokeballs. Honestly I hope Nintendo loses this one.
If they win, then I wonder if Kinder (Surprise) can then sue Nintendo for having containers with monsters inside them as well.
gameplay mechanic patents are bad for everyone out there, they are toxic and honestly should be abolished
limiting developers doesn't lead to innovation because they can't take ideas and make them better, it doesn't lead to quality because it let's the owners of the patent stagnate, it's bad for games as art and as an industry
Hear, hear!
Would you mind pointing to the line where the lawsuit says "gameplay mechanic patters" (whatever that is?). Nobody knows which patterns they are referring to, yet every armchair lawyer is up in arms already. Love it.
They are bad, because then no other game in a genre can use it or expand on it. Which is why I think its stupid Rockstar wants to patent their NPC ai technology.
Arlo, Palworld did not "take the Pokémon concept". Monster taming games have existed since before Pokémon. Pretending otherwise is pure ignorance.
Nintendo is literally bullying a smaller team (again) over ideas they didn't even invent, patents they didn't invent, and other claims that have been entirely debunked.
That is absolutely not okay.
I'm deeply upset and disappointed, and will no longer be supporting Nintendo.
Dragon Quest 3 HD for the Switch, which I already pre-ordered beforehand, will be the last Nintendo product I ever purchase first-hand. After that, any Nintendo item I purchase will be second-hand so Nintendo doesn't see that money.
The Pal designs don't even look like Pokémon, and Ultraseven did the whole "throw little device, monster goes in or out" thing WAY before Pokemon did!
Nintendo has ZERO justification for this lawsuit!
Palworld has not made any infringement, and Nintendo will try to buy their way into "winning".
Stop being so hesitant to call out Nintendo.
Thank you for using your brain. Nintendo is clearly just trying to bully their competition into giving them a licensing fee.
He's a Nintendo bootlicker, they don't know anything but their religion.
also, if Nintendo wins this isn't bad just for Palworld, it could be bad for the ENTIRE Monster collecting genre: aka, Dragon Quest Monsters, Digimon, Shin Megami Tensei, Persona, Like a Dragon, Yokai Watch, etc
Dragon Quest and SMT predates Pokemon and Digimon came out around Pokemon but the concept existed even long before in Tomogachi.
@@cttommy73 yes & that's why Nintendo actually getting away with their Patent would be bad & stupid
I doubt it will affect dragon quest, persona, and esspecially smt considering nintendo publishes dragon quest games outside of japan and the mainline smt games have been exclusive for nintendo systems for a while it would be really dumb to jeopardize the relationship with them, also if the theory of the patents being the ball smt and persona is save unless they make throwing balls the next persona summoning thing.
There have been so many games inspired by pokemon (Disc creatures, Coromon, Nexomon, Casette Beasts, etc.) there is no way they can win on mechanics alone IMO. Lets see how it goes.
My tinfoil hat theory is Nintendo filed the lawsuit because Palworld is coming to PlayStation. They don’t want a serious competitor within Japan. They can probably get Palworld removed from sale in Japan but not in the rest of the world.
The scariest part is that it is a patent lawsuit. The only real mechanic I can see being the one infringed on is the capturing mechanic, but doesn’t that just make it so Nintendo and TPC can sue anyone who tries to make a creature collector since you can’t have a creature collector without capturing the creatures. A monopoly on a game genre sounds so extremely scummy to me.
so we dont know for sure what patents being questioned here, but let me try to paint a better picture:
the concept of capturing/collecting/using mosters is a very broad mechanic and seen in many games (~yokai watch, NiNoKuni).
where its starting to get dodgy tho is, if that concept is implemented in a very specific way.
Both palworld and pokemon uses spherical gacha like capsules, that are thrown in a specific way to capture or release a monster from or into battle. raising the similiarity by a lot and watering down brand recognition.
Arlo, although Japanese law is different than American law. I can guarantee you that they where given the exact patents when they where served the papers. One doesn't file lawsuit paperwork without such items listed so that the court can decided it's worth the time, or instant dismissal.
The paperwork served to Pocket Pair HAD the patents listed.
Reminds me of Smash World Tour getting shut down by Nintendo. VGBC was told they wouldn’t be granted a license due to security concerns. VGBC neglected to explain this in the cancellation announcement, undoubtedly to save face with the competitive Smash community and fuel the hate mob against Nintendo. If Pocketpair knows what they’re being sued over, but feigning ignorance, that suggests knowledge of guilt on their part.
Nintendo going after pocketpair was expected, butthis reasoning was completely unexpected.
i mean palworld gameplaywise is taken more from rust & ark . its the visual designs that are suspiciously similar,
(there are many ways of designing flowers,dragons, wolves. But those are spesifically liligants flower on goodra & Lycanrocs recolour)
But we shall see as the story develops, hopefully palworld will come out with a style to call its own.
Arlo, Nintendo isn’t suing Pocketpair for their designs, they're suing for patents.
yea he came to that conclusion in the video.
Do we know what the patents are?
@kyuremthefrozen8539 supposedly the idea of catching monsters in balls, apparently? That's what everyone online is saying, IDK.
@@kyuremthefrozen8539 No. Even PocketPair wrote in their statement that they have no idea which patents the lawsuit is referring to. Everything being discussed right now is wild speculation by fans.
@@dsshocktrooper7523 It'd be in the legal filings, but I don't know if those are public yet. And we're talking Japanese court here.
I mean their patents are as stupid as the classic screen minigames and nemesis system. Like its freaking stupid how some countries let it slide.
Patenting game mechanics should be illegal period. It only helps massive corporations conglomerates abuse their power and eliminate creativity, and pick on the little guys.
There is no moral justification for it whatsoever
Just gonna chime in with the others saying hey Arlo! It's not a copyright lawsuit!
It's basically a backend programming lawsuit that Nintendo has enough intentionally vague patents on that they might be able to not 'win' but crush Palworld's devs in extended lawsuit fees, it's really really scummy. A nice info video on it (not calling anything scummy like I do) is by the smaller channel Video Game Story Time.
It's a patent under game design for the concept of throwing a ball to catch a monster. Concepts like lower HP making the monster more easy to catch in a ball. Nintendo copyrighted that while Palworld was in development.
We don't know which patent their is about, yet. Please stop spreading misinformation
If they really filed those patents so recently then they shouldn't be valid. A patent needs to be for a novel invention, something you made and sold millions of copies of almost 30 years ago wouldn't count.
This news is the final nail in the coffin for Nintendo for me. The level of contempt they have for their customers is just so offputting.
They're clearly sore about Palworld's success. Even if the designs aren't legally infringing copyright, they are clearly very Pokemon-like. The only thing Nintendo can do is dip into its giant vault of patents. Patents that are so vague and far-reaching they could theoretically go after any studio they wanted.
They have a patent for in-game items for throwing to catch and throwing to summon a partner, for example. The scummy part is they only patented this very recently, after Palworld's launch.
Everybody were discussing if the Pal designs were infringing and Nintendo was like "That gameplay though."
Nintendo in 1981: almost shuts down and is saved by someone being merciful.
Nintendo in the 2010s-20s: No mercy! Destroy their lives! Jail them!
I dunno who is legally right in this lawsuit, but Nintendo is morally wrong in this situation.
who cares about "morals" nintendo is a faceless company not a singular person
"Because anything is fair game as long as you make something i personally enjoy"?
@@vyse4907 Nope. Don't even really care about Palworld. Good companies innovate. Cowards and lazy companies litigate.
They’d have to hand Pokemon off to another company if we’re going to see any improvement.
+newmansan No, they're actually not.
Nintendo's morally right because they are protecting the work of their ARTISTS AKA their WORKERS.
The Japanese public is on Nintendo's side, I don't know if you have noticed.
Pocket Pair & Nintendo are both Japanese companies & the Japanese public sides with Nintendo.
The "Western" public seems to side with Pocket Pair at least online.
Ask yourself why that is. Could it have to do with the resentment elements of "The West" have over this Japanese company Nintendo conquering what was once an American industry?
This is old old beef with many permutations but it all comes back to the 1980s when the NES eclipsed the PC.
So many people are being strangely reactionary over this when we don’t even understand what, exactly, Nintendo is suing over yet. It’s wild watching armchair lawyers jump to conclusions online and act as if Nintendo does or doesn’t have a case when we aren’t even sure what the supposed patent infringements are yet.
i think most people are just reactionarily opposed/concerned about patents in games regardless of whats happening with this specific instance.... honestly can't blame them
@@StormyG Most people who are opposed/concerned about patents in games haven't seen a patent in their life. They don't even know what a patent is. Following someone else's opinion blindly.
Totally agreed.
Like, I’ll say it as much as I need to in this conversation- Nintendo are not targeting this game for being a similar genre as Pokemon. They’ve had plenty of Monster Catching games that are on past and present Nintendo consoles alongside Pokémon. And not just Pokémon- Mario Kart-likes, Smash-likes, Zelda-likes, Metroidvanias… It’s ridiculous to think they’re going to target the whole genre.
Whatever Palworld has done, it has specifically caught Nintendo’s ire. And that’s what the professional lawyers and courts will decide.
@@hododod246 Bandai patenting loading screen minigames kept them out of games for years. Warner Bros. patenting the Nemesis system has kept it from being used in any games besides the two they made with it.
Cut it out with the "oh people could only be opposed if they don't understand it, unlike myself so smart" bullshit, this shit has actively harmed innovation and iteration in the field.
@@oldred890 Oh typical BaNDAi PatenTED LoADIng ScreEN MiNI GAmes argument. How do you know that every single game wanted to put mini game to their loading screen after bandai namco invented that? Game dev's goal has always been getting rid of loading loading screens. Not making you spend time on there. Patent expired 2015. Did we see resurgence for loading screen minigames? No. On top of that there were games with loading screen mini games. Bayonetta 1 has loading screen minigame and it came before 2015. Patents encourages innovation. If PoketPair did their due dilligence and aware of patents, maybe they could have a unique game rather than this embarrassment of a game.
It's telling that Nintendo chose to go for a patent lawsuit. If Nintendo could have sued for copyright infringement they would have! Palworld didn't copy any of Pokemon's characters though, and so Nintendo had to resort to patent trolling.
Weak, Nintendo. Pretty weak~
Suing over patented game mechanics is so bad for the art form and for consumers.
I don't hate Palworld though, but since Palworld allows the Pals to work until death different to Pokemon,
I am not wanting Palworld anymore because of this, they copied the catching mechanic of Pokemon and almost copied the designs of Pokemon.
I hope Nintendo, The Pokemon Company and Pocketpair will get along if possible. Or not at all
for the first time Nintendo finally decides to give Pokemon fans what they asked for, & of course they chose the toxic thing.
Also, as many people pointed out, PalWorld is getting accused on Patent infringement, not Copyright infringement.
Which means the Pals do NOT look like Pokemon as far as the law is concerned, but there are GAMEPLAY mechanics that are allegedly similar to Pokemon
& usually, Patent lawsuits for game mechanics tend to not get very far
Something I just thought of. The side bringing the lawsuit is actually two litigants, The Pokemon Company AND Nintendo. I wonder if the patent infringment will go beyond just Pokemon, and bleed into the Breath of the Wild wall climbing mechanics and stuff too?
+SeafoamSmiles When Nintendo & The Pokémon Company took the equivalent of a woman's pregnancy to sue, that should send Red Flags to Pocket Pair about how deep a mess they are in.
I believe will lose this case & HARD because of how much preparations has gone into this.
Remember how cocky everyone was about Yuzu's chances before they folded a week later?
I honestly find this lawsuit kind of petty because this is one of the few monster tamers that found massive success and held their ground long enough to find a niche.
If TPC felt "threatened" by Pocketpair, maybe they should just, you know, make a game that proves Pokemon is still king instead of suing any rising competition so they don't have to make the effort of building a properly functioning game? (I'm looking at you Scarlet and Violet)
But, knowing about the BS that is Japanese law regarding copyright/patents, this will probably be one sided as always :\
Blame the people crying to Nintendo when this first happened because they saw similarity and wanted Nintendo to sue.
@@GeteMachine Yeah, never really understood why people did that.
@@markguyton2868 because they're TPC bootlickers, simple as that
The lawsuit has nothing to do with copyright nor trademark infringement, while some designs are similar nothing in Palworld crosses that line. The lawsuit is over game mechanic patents. Nintendo has a lot of broad, vague, and unspecific patents. stuff like 'riding on creatures'
This is the nemesis system nightmare scenario, a big studio filling lawsuits to bully developers from keeping from making games with machanics that resemble theirs, this is pretty bad for the gaming industry and if they win this will only make things worst for everyone
This lawsuit is about game mechanics, not designs.
Game Freak could get sued by Square Enix, the owner of Dragon Quest and also Atlus with Shin Megami Tensei, as they clearly ripped off those designs 😂
The lawsuit covers the capturing of monsters with a ball, and the process model for deciding if a monster can be captured.
Jesus this is low for Nintendo... a patent lawsuit could be a major make it or break it moment for Pokemon. Either they win and the majority of similar games get hurt/shut down/stopped being developed or whatever (obviously the worst case scenario), OR they lose this lawsuit so spectacularly that they get shunned for it and may need to actually improve the quality of Pokemon going forward to compete in the industry (BEST case scenario)
FYI I am not educated in law in the slightest so this may be all completely wrong so please do not attack me if it is
The fact that this is a patent case is crazy, Nintendo was so butthurt they couldn't do copyright that they went after patent. They won't even tell the Palworld devs what patent they violated. They have no idea.
For those unaware, supposedly patents in Japan can be very much sweeping in what they cover. This could be simply due to the success they tried to pursue this. I wouldn’t be surprised if it purely petty. At the same time tho, I wouldn’t be surprised if Palworld did, as they themselves have been very petty
I think that the designs are probably the REASON for the lawsuit, but filing a patent suit was a more sure-fire way to guarantee their case. It's why you don't see them attacking other games that MAY infringe on the patents as well, they weren't specifically TRYING to mimic Pokemon. The designs are extremely similar and some of the models do appear copied, but that isn't exactly easy to prove, even if they're nearly 1:1, recreations can happen. A patent on multiple mechanics (currently unclear which patents they are, despite what some people have been claiming) would be a lot easier to point to and confirm are being infringed on.
Honestly I completely forgot about Palworld
I feel like it was only popular because people wanted to hate on pokemon
@@bigman4487 Rightfully so. Name one innovation Pokemon has made in the last 30 years.
@joshstephens413 i think a lot of people sharing the same sentiment as you haven’t played the new games. PLA and SV are some of the best Pokémon games in general, I would say third place to gens 3 and 4. Really. You should look at the models for pokemon in scarlet and violet, they look amazing. (Also pokemon hasn’t existed for 30 years😉)
Most unoptimised first party game? @joshstephens413
@@bigman4487That's not fair at all, it was popular because people liked it. It's a survival indie game, there's only so much content. Most dedicated fans have long since caught every pal and crafted every item.
People moving on from the game does not somehow prove it was flawed, the devs even encouraged people to move on to other games if they were satisfied with it.
It’s not ‘funny’ if Nintendo bankrupts them over making a better creature catcher game than them in recent years, it’s ‘gross’ and stinks of sour grapes on Nintendos part. Really sours me on them as so called gameplay innovators if other small company’s can’t follow in their example. It just looks greedy and entitled. I guess ‘strictly business’ has to ruin the point of the products they produce. Loved the pokecube idea though 😂 Please don’t patent it Arlo
like 20 other people have probably said it but the lawsuit is for Patents, not Copyright
There effectively trying to sue Palworld not for stealing Pokemon Designs or anything that people said they would, but for the gameplay resembling Pokemon.
thats like if Metroid sued Hollow Knight for being an open mapped 2D platformer
Yeah and it's dumb as hell. Every bit of respect i had for Nintendo flew out the window with this
@@blackdust7353 The worst companies in this regard are Microsoft and Apple.
I dunno what the specifics of the lawsuit are going to be, if we ever find out. But I am pretty certain whatever it is, it’s something specific Palworld is doing, and not something as general as keeping a monster in your pocket. I mean, Nintendo have had Pokémon-likes on their consoles before, as early as the GameBoy with Robopon to now with stuff like TemTem and Cassette Beasts.
Nintendo knows good and well that just having a similar game on the market is not anything wrong. Pizza Tower closed the recent Indie World. They have Kart racers aplenty on Switch between Garfield, Sonic, Crash Bandicoot, Disney, and Dreamworks alongside Mario Kart. A game I very much enjoy, Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair, wears its Donkey Kong Country inspiration on its sleeve. Bugs Fables was on Switch long before Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door, and that game is a poster child of “we’ll do it ourselves!” You have things like Nick All Star Brawl alongside Smash. And Nintendo didn’t even bat an eye when Square released the very Splatoon-like Foamstars.
So whatever Palworld has done, I can’t imagine it’s for anything that is surface level, like the basic concepts of catching the monsters in a sphere or something. And I VERY much doubt this will affect games of the same genre going forward. All the Insert Nintendo IP-Likes I listed surely attest to that fact. We just gotta wait and see what happens, since this isn’t exactly something any of us can really claim we know anything about.
finally a level headed take about it. they literally have not disclosed the specific patents they are suing for, we have no information to say who is or is not in the right here. we'll just have to wait and see.
If Nintendo wins this case i can see indie developers refusing to port their games on any Nintendo platform and heck delist the games from the e shop
Why should they want to loose Money?
@neorobin1833 why because this whole thing Nintendo is doing will effect everyone in a negative way and refusing to port their games on Nintendo platforms and removing thair games from the e shop as a form of protest
@@tobyzilla i mean TemTem is a Monster catching Game and is on Switch i just think they found Something that we not 100% know we just have to wait
Oh wow that was unexpected i thought Arlo was endorsed by Nintendo so he would clearly take Nintendos side turns out he enjoys both games
Its important to remember that Nintendo is a multi-billion dollar corporation. Even if they win the case, it may well not mean Palworld infringed on anything and instead mean that Nintendo simply had better and more aggressive lawyers.
Strongarming lawsuits like this is Nintendo's forte, and they haven't always been in the right even when they won their cases.
In my opinion they would be this time whatever happens, If it comes out they were huge bullies I will have a problem, but Palworld did go over inspiration and that should be considered when we judge Nintendo even if the designs didn't have anything to do with the motivation for the lawsuit which is highly unlikely.
+GameAW1 All this talk about "corporations" forgets that Nintendo is a collection of ARTISTS.
Nintendo is not just a Publisher, they are also a Developer.
So all the phony "pseudo-Leftist" Robin Hood-type talk on this subject neglects to understand that the Artists are the WORKERS & the WORKERS must be protected. That's a REAL "Left Wing" perspective.
Pocket Pair is ALSO a Corporation. The company is literally called Pocket Pair, Incorporated.
And they may be a Corporation seeking to devalue Artists' work through Generative AI & other means.
The Little Guy/Big Guy argument is irrelevant. It's not Little/Big, it's Right/Wrong.
I have a feeling Pocket Pair is quietly being backed by Microsoft & Sony somehow in an attempt to undermine & usurp Nintendo. Between Microsoft, Sony, & Nintendo it is Nintendo who is the Little Guy between the 3.
And this is why they must be so stringent in protecting their work against giant conglomerates like these.
@@Masaim6 It was never proven that Palworld plagiarized though and in fact on the topic of evidence, the detractors always either ignore the topic, change it, or insist they did without evidence. This borderline confirms that the claims of plagiarism are completely false. At worst, they have been very uninspired in some of them (Yes, even the Cinderace knockoff) but that alone does not amount to plagiarism.
And in the case of using AI to generate the Pals, that's been so heavily debunked, even the detractors aren't using that anymore.
Similar monster designs aside, I don't think Palworld is deserving of all the hate, and I don't think the haters should've summoned Nintendo's wrath. I hope Nintendo loses.
Nintendo doesn’t care what a bunch of commentary youtubers say lol
Gosh, you got that right.
(they prefer to watch react streamers)
I hope Nintendo loses millions of fans from this lawsuit. Especially if they win. If Pokemon still made great games then it may be easier to swallow, but Pokemon sucks ass at making games nowadays.
@@willhinrichs3678"If Pokémon still made great games" I see you decided to rip your own eyes so that you wouldn't see that the quality has stayed the same all this time
I dont think the patent has to do with the capture method. Temtem would have been sunk years ago otherwise even if that game uses cards rather than spherical capsules. Theres a couple other games with capture methods for certain creatures as well that would have been in doubt if the issue was about a copycat pokeball.
2:10 This isnt a copyright lawsuit, its a patent infringement lawsuit. which makes it more weird
Unfortunately Japanese laws and courts aren't known for being particularly fair. Nintendo is a very important to Japan culturally. Billions of dollars end up in Japan because of Pokemon specifically. It's likely Nintendo will either just get their way or be allowed to drag this out for years to choke out PocketPair. As reported, they have *never* lost a lawsuit in Japanese court.
As for why, you did touch on it. I think we're giving Nintendo too much credit. I think this was reactionary to Palworld becoming a multimedia IP with help from Sony. With Sony's support we could even see more Palworld branded games that are actually similar to Pokemon. That makes it a legitimate threat to the world's most profitable multimedia franchise. Even if it's still currently a small threat. Nintendo effectively has a monopoly with Pokemon and they're not going to let anyone become competition without a fight.
Tldr: Nintendo will use every privilege it has to kill Palworld and protect their cash cow.
Okay... But it's literally more about PATENTS rather than copyright, If Nintendo wins this case this could not only spell the end of the gaming industry, But the entertainment industry as a whole in the future. But mentioning that it's in Japanese court, This could LITERALLY spell doom for the entertainment industry on a GIGANTIC margin. I feel like you're taking this more lightly. It's scary actually.
@@Feliciathedoll i'm terrified, too. and i wish there was something, ANYTHING, to do about this
Also Microsoft payed a good amount of money to have Palworld on GamePass.
Goodluck with patents for game mechanics. It is very hard. The only success I can think of is the Nemesis system.
Namco's loading screen game patent
There’s been several success. All stupid. Doesn’t sound that hard tbh >_>
The fact that your TemTems, your Cassette Beasts and hell your Digimon monster collecting games are both doing fine and don't draw this attention means Nintendo have definitely got *something* on Palworld concrete. Nintendo winning will not be the end of other monster catchers.
On one hand, this is just The Pokémon Company's pathological insecureness rearing its ugly head once again.
On the other, Pocketpair created a game explicitly (and admitted as much) using the same self-destructive trend-chasing quote-unquote "strategy" as Concord, only to act coy about putting players first and being respectful "fans" of their "inspiration" whenever called out on the very, _very_ suspicious similarities between Palworld and the Pogeys.
Honestly, Pocketpair had it coming, despite them thinking they could get away with everything.
+alessandrobozzi In other words, Pocket Pair went All In against a player with a Royal Flush on the River.
The other player called the bluff of the one with the Pocket Pair. And now they will win all the chips on the table.
So many pokemon defenders. They're still harassing a third party, if they're successful then artists like KAWS should be sued up the wazoo.
If Nintendo wins does not make them right
I seriously doubt that the patent in question is about the general mechanics of capturing monsters to fight with them (many games both before and after the original Pokémon, including Shin Megami Tensei and Digimon, have used similar mechanics and structure). Most likely it has something specific to do with a codebase or some other resource Nintendo/Game Freak created, was ripped and put online, and someone at Pocket Pair pulled it off the internet or ripped it himself from a Pokémon game without checking whether it was a patented system.
Patents don't just cover abstract concepts, but the design and structure of actual objects (or in the case of software like video games, overall structure of a computer application's code and stuff like its file structure, function-interactions, and other features).
Either way, we won't know until Nintendo actually submits the suite what specific patent was infringed.
Donkey Kong
Balloon Fight
Color TV-Game 15
That's all I have to say.
I feel bad for Palworld and various monster franchises like Digimon, Monster Rancher, Yu-Gi-Oh, Neopets, Yo-Kai Watch, Bakugan, Monster Hunter, Monsuno, TemTem, or Moshi Monsters.
Pokèmon should be ashamed of itself on bullying other monster franchises as well as monopolizing the monster taming genre.
Well, most of these franchises are still around, and they were bullied by Pokmon fans most of the time. Digimon is still around, and most people outside of Japan have called it a clone of Pokemon, and do not support it. Yu-Gi-Oh is still around, so I'm unsure why you brought it up. Yo-Kai Watch did very well for itself, but it didn't catch on that well. Tem-Tem was only supported because people wanted a Pokemon Killer, which backfired in all their faces.
If anything, Pokemon fans are to blame for why these other ones didn't do that well. That's just my thought.
Yokai Watch deserved better but everyone decided to not only be racist but also hostile and murder it to the ground. The Pokemon community got what they deserved with “underwhelming games” so I hope you all learned your lesson but chances are you haven’t and will continue to do it again.
I have to disagree with the (likely popular) idea that Palworld is Pokemon for adults. The only "adult" thing they added is shock-value content like killing and eating your mons. The first Pokemon games had a cemetery haunted with mon-ghosts, so it's not like they added death to make it more "realistic," it's all just meme-bait. And boy, was it effective.
A lot of people are repeating the claim that because this is a patent lawsuit and not copyright, it must be related to catching creatures in balls or some other game-mechanic thing; but I have no idea if there's any evidence behind this or if it's just a theory they heard from another youtuber (I'm guessing the latter). There were a few cases where Pal 3D models lined up perfectly with Pokemon ones, so that's also a likely target. We'll have to wait and see what comes out of this.
The Megami Tensei franchise, which has existed before Pokémon, is a better example of Pokémon for adults.
If you're talking about that Twitter post that claimed the Palworld models were ripped from Pokemon ones, that person admitted that they made it up.
@@busterkich68 Wrong, byofrog only admitted to 1:1 universal scaling the models, then a bunch of Palworld fans who don't know anything about modeling tried to claim that's "lying by editing the models" when the models were unchanged.
Fun fact: Whatever you do, there is always someone with a patent you are infringing. Every BS is patented somewhere, and you cannot know you break the law unless you know all patents that are out there and you cannot do that.
0:40 the model theivory is bunk but I would not be surprised if they literally used a color picker for some pokemon color pallets for some of them. Which by the way *isnt illegal.*
On one hand, it’s another Nintendo lawsuit, and that does really suck.
On the other hand, PocketPair were sitting on one of the biggest ticking timebombs in gaming. They really should be scared that Nintendo took this long, let alone specifying that it’s a patent. A part of me wants to say ‘I told you so’ because it was bound to happen. The balls on them to do this while sitting in Nintendo’s backyard is impressive.
On the third hand, The Pokemon Company kind-of deserved atleast a sting that was Palworld with just how depressingly poor their games have been (and still are) on a technical and mechanics standpoint for years.
If I were them I would call MS and ask them to sort this out...let's see what Nintendo can do against the bigger boys....they seem to bully small creators, so hope MS or some1 puts them in their place
@@sumomaster5585pardon my ignorance, MS as in Microsoft?
@@QuantumConundrum Yes. Pal world has a deal with Microsoft and recently Sony
@@QuantumConundrum yes...and no that's no ignorance, only those in tech use that acronym, my bad :)
+walkerwilliams-rigofrodst3316 You have 3 hands? What are you, a mutant??
I desperately hope Nintendo fails on this lawsuit. I didn’t love Palworld personally but it was nice to see something Pokémon adjacent that was made with some intentionality. The Pokémon company has been releasing subpar games for so long now that it would be great if this forced them to at least have something resembling competition
Yeah that's nonsense. They waited because the more Palworld makes, the more they can sue for. If Nintendo wanted a takedown, they could have made that happen near release
+DarkMeridian0 My man, there is such thing as statute of limitations.
Whatever is within the time limit to sue, you can sue.
But it IS better to sue someone who actually has something to pay than someone who is broke.
Pocket Pair? Meet the Royal Flush.
@@johnlucas1543 the statute of limitations is very lax for civil suits. There are a bunch of rules that push it forward.
Its also a Japanese lawsuit, which is a whole other can of worms. To my limited knowledge, the Japanese courts are much more hawkish about copyright. Like, fair use just doesn't exist
@@DarkMeridian0 Yep, that's right.
Fair use is not a concept in Japan as Team Four Star found out the hard way on DBZ Abridged.
DBZ Abridged IS an example of honest use of material with a transformative implementation & STILL the Japanese owners of DragonBall were itchy about it.
I would read Japanese Twitter for REAL insight on this as folks in "The West" are bogged down by this arrogant belief that only THEY know what's best for a situation over a Japanese company.
Japanese Twitter by & large look at Pocket Pair as the thieves they are & are not swayed by the public appeal of "aw shucks, i'm a itty-bitty indie company".
Pokémon are on manhole covers & airplanes in Japan & when you go to the airport you are greeted with Nintendo characters like Mario. It's a mentality of national pride over there with this stuff.
It's a mentality over principle & they think Pocket Pair has violated key principles.
So understand that Nintendo is not losing this lawsuit in Japan whatsoever.
And patented game design I learned is not even controversial to them over there.
I learned in reading one of the translated conversations that Capcom sued Koei-Tecmo on this kind of stuff & won the case. The general feeling is that if Pocket Pair is in violation than they must be punished.
The phony Robin Hood "pseudo-Leftist" Big Evil Corp vs. Little Good Indie narrative is not even considered.
They think Pocket Pair is an insult to the indie scene too because they stole from indies too.
No way in hell Nintendo loses this case ESPECIALLY with all of the preparation they have undertaken.
Not to mention possible connections of Pocket Pair to both Microsoft & Sony in all of this.
Sony took Palworld off its list for Tokyo Game Show before the lawsuit dropped.
That means they had some idea something was coming & got ahead of it in time.
Capcom vs Data East set a precedent. One that works _against_ The Pokemon Company.
Patents only exist to stifle competition. If someone is taking your idea and doing it better, then instead of suing, use this time to better your mechanics and compete with those people.
I don't think you understand how patents work.
@@batmanbud2 I see. Care to explain?
Patents exist to let you profit from years of development.
If I spend $1billion over 10 years to invent the first smart phone, but there's no protection, it means you undercut me by coming along with an exact copy that's 75% cheaper. That means I lose all my money, go bankrupt and no-one will ever risk investing in innovation. Patents are a necessary evil. And they don't last that long anyway, 20 years max.
Arlo, you know how Vehemently Nintendo pursues legal matters, going for the throat is their go to especially if someone is making money they think they deserve. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo doesn't just sue them for compensation but asks for so much Pocket Pair either has to turn over Palworld to them or they get absorbed into Nintendo. Palworld is one of the closest IPs pokemon has ever had to potential real competition outside of Digimon and some knock offs. So much so that Sony Music and another company just ended negotiations with them to franchise Palworld AND Palworld just ended raising money for charity with RUclipsrs. So the fact that Nintendo is going after them for Patent Infringement means they wanna make sure any threat to their empire is crushed before it can franchise any further. I mean PocketPair hasn't even been served the lawsuit yet and Nintendo ANNOUNCED they were filing before even telling them they were being sued, their making it a spectacle so everyone can see them Crush PocketPair.
You did not read into this enough before responding.
And suggesting PocketPair redesign all their creatures to avoid a ridiculous and abusive lawsuit, is pathetic Nintendo bootlicking.
Not to mention, the creature designs ARE legally distinct, the lawsuit is a patent lawsuit, not IP.
Yea, I don't think Nintendo has any grounds on this and I hope that they cannot win for the sake of the wider industry
I feel like Nintendo will not win a lawsuit like this, but I feel like Pocket Pair will just settle for financial reasons. Winning against Nintendo will be very expensive and indeed maybe slightly tweaking some stuff to keep them happy and paying a (relatively) small fee might be the way to go. It truely sucks imo, patenting game mechanics is one of the worst things a company can do and I reallly hope Nintendo loses this.
Why the hell are all the comments trying to correct people about how it's over patents and not over copyright? Didn't this video clarify as much? Now yall got ME looking confused. >.<
Yes, this is me apologizing for a mistake made in a previous (now deleted) comment. I just don't get why people are re-explaining a correction that was already made in the video???
Wow two videos in less than 5 minutes. TOO MUCH ARLO IN SO LITTLE TIME
The issues is people refuse to believe that the pals are different enough to not be in danger of copyright thats why they are using pantents wich is not at all a good thing for anyone
"the pokemon concept" is not actually a pokemon concept, its reipped of dragon quest monsters and shin megami tensei
No, it isn't. Neither of those have the same core concept as Pokemon.
@@dewot1256 the entire catch the monsters and use them in your team thing is borrowed from those
That is a claim of unclear origin, circulating in the Palworld community. This variation is especially nonsensical considering that the first Dragon Quest Monsters game was released on September 25, 1998 in Japan, long after the first Pokémon games which were released in 1996. In fact, the game is likely a result of Enix trying to profit from the success of Pokémon by fusing some of the ideas with their own dragon quest IP. The difference to Palworld being, that DQM used their own designs for the monsters. It is actually an example for the difference between being "inspired" by another game and just blatantly copying. Other variations of the rumor claim that the original Dragon Quest RPGs somehow inspired Pokémon, which may well be but I don't see what the point of that argument would be? Neither are the mainline Dragon Quest games about catching monsters, nor do Pokémon look so similar to Dragon Quest designs, that one could confuse the two.
TL;DR - this is just a desperate attempt to argue that Pokémon must have been inspired by something else. While that may be true, it did not copy anything so closely that it could be confused for that other thing. Neither did DQM, Digimon, Monster Ranchers nor any other game, Series or whatever that used a similar concept.
@@vyse4907 ", nor do Pokémon look so similar to Dragon Quest designs, that one could confuse the two."
Tell me with a straight face that Dragon Quest's Crabid wasn't copied with Pokemon's Krabby. It's literally the same design, Krabby just has its mouth closed. That's far more infringing than anything in PalWorld. LMAO
@@0llyMelancholy Before I go deeper into this: You are ignoring the main argument and singling out a part of the statement and try to twist it into a different discussion.That being said: *Straight face* It wasn't. First of all, both of these are inspired by real world crabs and were then stylized by the designers in a way that matched the rest of the monsters in that game. Secondly, having one or two monsters somewhat resemble each other is no issue. Having all of your monster designs look like they are from another game with some looking like they are essentially a copy of the mesh with minor tweaks is. DQ and Pokémon may have an overlap here or there, but they use a different design language (which is the point and the reason why those games never had a situation like we have now with palworld). Design language is basically what lets you recognize a set of different design elements as a matching set. e,g. what let's you differentiate pokemon from dragon quest designs. Somewhat like the RUclips UI does not look like the Facebook UI despite both of them having buttons. You recognize them as buttons, but they were designed with different philosophies and concepts in mind, thus resulting in a different look. If Palworld was a UI, what they did was "Copy the youtube button, but change the font from bold to regular". Likewise, I am sure you can find a million games with crab based monsters that look similar, but the way they are designed is based on the logic of whoever designed them. With Pals however, they intentionally went for looking as indistinguishable from Pokemon by copying the entire aesthetic/design language which is why this whole thing became a problem with this game and not with any other.
It took them this long because they were busy making more patents. A few of them just took effect a few days ago and supposedly enforceable retroactively.
I'm pretty sure the reason they're actually going after Palworld is because they basically wagged their butt in Nintendo's face and made flippant disregard of the entire Pokemon franchise. There's been plenty of other monster capture games like this that have come out that weren't being so clearly disrespectful to the original source material it was basically ripping from that Nintendo left well enough alone. I'm not like, coming to Nintendo big company's defense here, but there's no reason I think to be afraid they'll do this to a bunch of other games. This definitely just seems like a special case of being annoyed at the Palworld devs in specific.
Edit: Adding a bit more to say that I'm even more confident in my feeling on this because Nintendo is a Japanese company. Respect and Proper Manner is really important over there, and I really wouldn't be surprised if the higher ups just feel like this is a huge slap in the face for no real reason to make a quick buck. Palworld (whether the game is good or not is up for debate) DOES basically have all of its success to attribute to its similarity to Pokemon.
If it was just another random monster catching sim nobody would have batted an eye, I'm pretty sure. Maybe they would have gotten moderate success. But to become a sensational hit over mocking and messing with the Pokemon brand while basically copying a bunch of designs and quite a few mechanics and design language is bound to get these kind of people upset.
if that ws the case...why patent infringment?
You hit the nail on the head
Just that nobody knows which patents they are referring to, not even PocketPair. Claiming that it is any gameplay mechanic is pure speculation at the moment.
This is bs
@@JDReC100 the designs are legal. tracing isnt against the law. so they going a different route to get the same result.
Literally the only thing about this that I find surprising is that they didn't get sued sooner. I fully expected Nintendo to kill Palworld before it even launched. The fact that it was able to release at all and made it nearly 10 months without the full force of Nintendo crashing down on them must be something of a minor miracle.
And now Palworld is on Playstation and soon to be on mobile 📱