Chris, I'm a junior right now and I love your videos. You really are the most realistic youtuber that I watch, in dutch we say "not everything in life is about roses" Every job has it's ups and downs. hopefully I still like programming in 10 years, Else I will just change jobs again. I've been a postman, truck mechanic, boatmen, and now a programmer. there will always be something to do if you work for it :) kind regards, Dennis
I'm a Dutch senior developer and most Dutch companies just expect you to work from 9 till 5, also when you are a senior. On the other hand, our salaris are much much lower. I wish I could make 90k or higher.
I've been doing web/software development for about 25 yrs and everything you said is spot on! As you age, the equation flips. Money becomes less important and free time becomes more important. My advice: if you want to own your own business, do it while you're relatively young, when you have the energy and still have time to recover (financially) if it fails. Sincerely, The Old Java Bit Twiddler
Always appreciate these kind of videos. I'm a junior dev, and I've been addicted to coding for a while, but videos like these made me realize that there's more to life. That and my burnout after building a sideproject next to my full time job.
@@realchrishawkes oh definitely. It was a relatively short burnout, but it caused me to be way less productive at work. I also couldn't touch any code outside of work. I believe it took me a little over two months to go somewhat back to "normal" however about 4 months later I still don't feel like coding outside of work like I did before. I had two weeks off around Christmas which I'm sure is what helped me the most.
You're the real deal. So cool, honest, thoughtful and kind. I'm very appreciative of your offerings. For real Chris. I'm 1 month in to my bootcamp and have taken all your words to heart. Much gratitude!
It's a tiny percentage of people who will make it to those "partner at law firm" positions you describe, and mostly this is due to pedigree (where you went to school, connection ect). Software development is more realistic.
My girlfriend is an attorney and teaches at a major university in VA. She worked at one of the biggest law firms in the world and I can attest to what you say.
I'm a senior developer. I just got back into job hunting and went through those shitty job descriptions you said. There're a lot of idiotic bullets flying around like "You live and breath in Chrome dev tools", "You don't stop until perfection", "if you think this describes you, please apply". Fuck it. "You are passionate" Let's see how many programmers will actually do this if the profession is not well-paid. Thanks for making these realistic videos.
I 100% totally agree this is a shit show. I think these companies are only going to find immature talent who eat and breathe the latest framework and do nothing with it. If I ever hire dev's I want smart level headed people who know what they want out of life or maybe know they are in the process of figuring it out by living theirs day to day. Not someone with no existence outside of superficial hype.
@@robbyz512 I don't want to diminish your hopes, mostly just raising awareness. Follow your dreams whatever they may be. I'm just one guy's opinion on the situation. I've also had a hellish few years but all that makes me stronger and I think more on point with how the world operates.
I learned from your videos a lot (tutorials) But to be honest, you coming out and speaking like a normal human being, the things that not a lot of people talk about, taught me a lot of things, helped me to balance things and not take shit, one could say pretty early in my career, so I thank you very much
Enjoy being a jr to mid level dev. As a Senior dev all I do is go to meetings, write docs, write emails explaining things etc. Its literally all I do anymore
I’ve been a junior dev for about 6 months, really enjoying what I’ve been working on and learning. Even so new, I find people constantly bringing up “so what’s next?” Like I cant enjoy being where I’m at without needing to grind towards the next thing. Idk man, shits exhausting. I’m happy where I am, I’m gonna keep learning at my own pace.
things has changed , This thing you guys say "they don't expect you to know a lot "is not a thing(at least for me). I never got in to a real junior job, they always say that i don't have experience. Thanks for the video! was really insightful
For real, interviewed at an agency that works for top companies and they said juniors haven’t been “fast enough”. Were also looking to pay junior level for design QA & development, you’d think they’d want someone experienced especially to do both jobs. Even said I did great on the html/css client example test but got no reply after following up. I have an enterprise web & mobile dev degree, freelance experience and kept up over few years with courses & projects like a production released custom Laravel/React app with lots of features
@@Bayo106 I honestly think starting a company even if it's only for a short while gives you a different edge. The amount of experience you gain on how business works helps you become an effective team member if you choose to join a company after that. But you might enjoy some of the freedoms owning a business has tho it can be stressful.
The best scenario is getting a remote Junior role and live in a country with a weaker currency. You'll earn like a senior dev in that country but have the responsibilities of a Junior. Lol I plan to move back to South America and live near the beach, earning even 60~80k on those countries will allow you to live like a king, with more free time
@@realchrishawkes you motivate the shit out of me by speaking about software development like a normal human being. It makes it feel so much more attainable to move from a hobbyist dev to a professional dev so I'll keep coming back as long as you make videos
DataBass - Green Finance you can do it! If you’re a hobbyist and don’t have professional experience yet just make a portfolio site and show it during the interview on your laptop. That’s what I did and got me my current job. In fact if you’re doing it for fun (a hobbyist) your golden because that means it’s probably your passion. If you are passionate about the work employers will be begging for you to work for them.
Subscribed just from watching this video. I'm a medical graduate who is about to start an entry-level web development venture. Once I pay back my medical school debt, I'm quitting and figuring things out on my own. Starting over from scratch is the best feeling in the world. People always want to get to the top but they don't realize the top is lonely. So I plan to always stay in school. I always want to feel like I don't know anything, which means I'll always feel like I have a lot to learn. After software engineering, I plan to learn electrical engineering, then mechanical engineering, then chemical engineering, then finally biomedical engineering. If I get bored, I'll go and do medical school again. If everything feels too easy, I'll get a PhD in math. This way, I'll never find myself at the top. Not knowing how to keep growing is a million times scarier than being weak.
Getting a job as a junior web dev is super hard since it's practically impossible to just be a front end ... everything is full-stack ... Super challenging since it takes a while to be 10*dev
Seems like US market is really different webdev-wise if we reject the positions that are titled in a way that you don't understand wtf that is. In Europe, there are quite a few options that offer the specific route you want to take (front-end or back-end), yet the testing phase if you qualify for job, is equally as retarded and outdated and dull.
My teacher in college was honest saying to stick with it 10 years to ensure being a successful developer so should pay off if your dedicated & enjoy it. I’m at 5 yrs and finally started building my own production-ready projects this past year
@@fortnitebasecamp6343 all I'm saying is if it takes 5 years for me then I'm certainly not starting as a junior. and in 5 years I think I'll be good just starting my own shit.
@@realchrishawkes I am honored by the reply. My mother was a C++ programmer in the late 80s / early to mid 90s. When I was growing up, our standard of living really shot up when she transitioned out of programming into a Business analyst role.
Thanks Chris, appreciate the insight. With everything in life, a lot of the satisfaction you get is from the actual journey to getting where you wanna be.
I'm honestly still trying to figure that out. I think full time RUclipsr and teacher is the goal at this point. That and being the best father I can be.
Good chat! I'm starting my 4th year at my current role that I pretty much created at a start-up. Money is fine, sometimes you just get ready for a new set of problems. Have other teams trying to pull me on to other projects but I'm stuck supporting this start-up. Good problems to have I guess. :-) Sometimes, I'm commuting a lot and others I don't. It tends to balance out in the long run. If not, just take PTO which I have a lot of. I'm struggling with my next car purchase too! Can afford whatever but want to retire and be responsible with my money.
You are really helping me with these videos. I'm 38 now, and surrounded at work by nothing but people in their early twenties, and having a hard time that there is nobody to connect with about feeling very similar to what you're expressing.
Love your video. I'm an entrepreneur, been running my businesses for years and I'm burned out. I've done light programming and I married a programmer. Now I'm working towards getting a junior dev job for cash flow and also a sense of security and stability. It really does make a lot of sense to evaluate that cost of life style to work for money, to make money through various streams of projects, not relying on one thing, one employer and one business. It for sure not only makes more sense financially but also just for a more fulfilled and happier life. Cheers to optimal life vs optimal income. thx
Chris. I think you, like many young people, are trapped in the pursuit of independence, good money and the ability to prove something to someone. I liked your video, the most interesting thing is that programmers are the only people who are starting to talk about it openly. The most common burnout is on the face, and in the pursuit of expensive cars, large houses and other privileges, people understand that they become slaves.
Very true about the pursuit. We lost sight of time and what is truly most important. Money doesn't buy time. It can buy freedom with your time if you're lucky but we never get our time back. It's always a gamble how we spend our time.
I relate with the idea of someday just taking a junior role and kick-in back so to speak. I’m in the 6 figure salary range now and it’s nice but I also have a lot of debt and loans that I need to pay off from my younger days as well as my wife’s student loans. My goal is to eventually pay all that crap off, buy a modest house and then get back to basics making roughly 80k and living my life doing more than just coding. All and all I just want to get to a debt free life and then live modestly, perhaps even do some travel. Shoot! At that time, I would gladly take a lower paying remote job if it meant that I got to move around and have that freedom with no commute, no traffic, no cubical and no hustle. Until then, the grind is real ;)
You really made my day... since I feel stupid as junior dev... and that god damn imposter syndrome is killing me... literally I am to god damn shy to talk to anybody who code... since I have feeling that they would say “well how you don’t know this/that as junior dev” since I have had these comments...
Chris! I got a 2014 MX-5 Club. I love it. Also, I want to clue you in on a hidden gem where I live down in Southern Maryland. Don't get me wrong I work hard, but I'm never stressed to the point of burn out. You're not going to make as much as you would in DC, but we're right on the water and the cost of living is cheap.
@@realchrishawkes Your integrity is not in question nor are your credentials as a great developer. Even though I found this video to be slightly depressing that certainly doesn't mean that I'm disrespecting you as a person or a developer. Pink Floyd are an excellent band (perhaps even my favourite band) and they made some of the most depressing music ever. Don't worry. Your content has massive value and you are a breath of fresh air to the community.
I like your humble approach. My feeling after watching tour videos is that I had the same burnout after having a senior finance role before switching to programming. These local multinationals in Eastern Europe also require lots of personal sacrifice and stress, and the money is less vs software development in these other areas in the manufacturing industry. So you are not alone with the struggle, probably all hard working employees feel the same even in other areas. These companies function by making money using the effort of its employees. I can see lots of former colleagues and managers sacrificing their family life and health to keep their senior positions , for the above average salary... And we don't even have RUclips revenue, as we don't speak English on native level. So it can't be that bad for senior sw engineers in the USA.
@@realchrishawkes How's the job market up there? Seems like a lot of decent entry level to senior level compared to Central VA. Richmond and Norport seem better than Central too.
I'm junior dev. Been a dev for 1 year. I've never had to work more than 40 hours a week, but I hear it's common, especially at startups, which I don't fully understand. I kind of wish I could be paid hourly, have some required work that takes maybe 20 hours a week, and then the rest is completely optional. But yeah man, work's a grind. I've gotta have a creative outlet, so I make RUclips videos as well, and I work on an open source project or two, since the legal department seems fine with that. I don't plan to work for other people for long. I want to solve problems, but the problems I'm solving right now don't seem particularly meaningful.
They may as well just start asking that stuff in interviews. Like how much everyday do you code outside of work. Is this the first time you've left the house in a year/6months/3 months/1month ? It is like there is all this pressure to learn and be relevant yet get all these minor repeatable things done at the same time. If you make those minor things efficient there are a bunch of people that complained but didn't want that. That may be more on the sysadmin side since that is what I do.
@@ciprianghenghea7779 Networking isn't as stressful (depending on what branch you go to) like firewall isn't very demanding; however, if you are setting up the infrastructure, it's kinda stressful. (Lot of waiting on other people) once you've done it once, you realize it's pretty much the same for every other project. Maybe you are one of the many who see cyber security as a hell of a lot of fun. (Don't get me wrong, I think it's fun too) especially if you are a contractor who works on company security. Lots of traveling, you go to those companies, you find the holes in their security, and give them a list of what to do to prevent it/fix it. (More often then not, they will put 30% - 60%~ of your suggestions into practice, because they realize how expensive it is to replace. example: replace all there Cisco switches made before 2015) in summary, I think this field is like trading hunger/drive, for a less stressful job, the most important thing is to watch out for new bugs/exploits (there will never be a shortage of that, in fact it's only gunna get more crazy from here.) A Dev job that I am headed for, I am hoping to have project driven jobs and black and white deadlines. The creativity in the office might not be wonderful due to stipulations, but I can go home and apply what I know in making an app using flutter and deploying or making a windows/Linux application or using machine learning to do crazy stuff lol.
@@ciprianghenghea7779 I'm curious what your experience is in Dev, do I have some "rose colored glasses" and should I expect something like demotivation? I am only a few months into a Dev job for ServiceNow API.
Will you talk more about what it is like to have a 2 hour commute, and talk more about it what is specifically what it is that you do not like about working in the heart of DC?
@@realchrishawkes I'm especially curious if you would hate DC just as much if you could walk to work? Btw, I'm in the area; I've been meaning to send you an email, keep your eye out.
A lot of the senior managers at my job think I want to be in their shoes but on the contrary I would hate it. They work 80 hours a week and have constant burn out. For me, I wfh whenever and a typical work day for me is 6h a day. I doubt their even making over 200k for essentially their life.
In one week I'm starting an actual front end job (I'm a wordpress developer now) and I'm actually terribly afraid of getting burned out down the line. I know it's something I enjoy immensily but what if? I guess I'll find out starting next week!
At times i think that it would be more healthy(in terms of work-life balance and stresfullness/burnout) and more beneficial(in terms of money) to find 2 middle or middle+ positions, instead of trying to become senior/tech lead/team lead in one company... I have a friend that works at 2 jobs as a middle+ dev netting 10k a month, but he works only 2 to 3 hours a day cause he is able to finish all his tasks in that time with 10+ years of experience...
It comes with a level of prestige vs just driving a truck and making the same as a junior dev. Maybe I will just go get my CDL just for fun who knows. Except that is being automated also with diver-less trucks. Let's face it, the future is in tech. Happiness isn't about how much you make (after you make a certain salary), it's about having financial security (at least for me). I only judge my success and happiness by how many years I can go if I am fired today and have no income.
I just turned down the highest salary I would have ever had with a gov contractor. Long story but I'll probably talk about it on RUclips at some point.
I met a 54 year old who went to school for 2 years and got hired as a junior. He had no prior experience prior to going to school so I know it's possible first hand, I just don't know how often that happens. Ageism is real, but the industry is growing and changing all the time.
What if you would switch to a different field? E.g. if you are a senior developer in web development, you could start embedded systems development, specialize into computer graphics or audio processing, etc. But probably you would start as a junior developer again and don't make as much money anymore, right? Or does a senior developer count as a senior developer no matter what field?
Really great to learn about the industry from your experience. I especially like what you said about reducing salary and hiring two people. It would be great to see what the future holds for pair programming at companies. I'm enrolled in a remote pair programming bootcamp (Microverse) right now and I find that pair programming reduces pressure, improves accountability, and increases productivity.
I think pair programming is pretty effective except for people who don't perform well with somebody watching over their shoulder. Pair programming should only be with people who know and feel comfortable talking and being around one another. Sadly, this is not the case in the development world.
Idk man. Most businesses require stupidly easy apps where your CS degree is 100% wasted. Educational programming is really the way to go. It's a lot of fun to mentor talented, aspiring programmers. Keep it up!
I think they are lying, maybe because its hard to find a really good person and they know that most people know react but not angular. But it doesnt make sense how they post the salary to be $110,000 - $130,000 for senior developer for that job role. I think that should be a junior pay for having that skill. And then for senior level should be $160k +. I say that because I know there is some people who enter as a junior at $80k for react and ruby on rails.
Given the size of your channel, there are a number of businesses you could create where you have a substantial advantage. I *do* create tutorials and even at just 2.5k subs it monetizes well thanks to a connected site with premium videos for paying members. That's not the end of it, either. I'm using it as a stepping stone to build a SaaS aimed at a broader audience. I totally get that with kids to provide for that you can't tolerate the same risk a 20 year-old could. I'm just saying that once really start to think about what a distribution channel like 150k YT followers makes possible, I'd say that by 2025 the odds of you being a FT employee is very low.
That video was great. I felt I could have said all the same things ! Work in Manhattan at a fintech and totally not motivated anymore. Make as much as I am going to make and hope in five years to work for a junior salary remotely from some beachfront location that’s cheap. Trapped as a wage slave thanks to college tuition for kids and my expensive lifestyle. Not fun being owned by banks and universities and lacking control
I hope good knowledge of vanilla js, html, css and react can land me a junior position. Javascript is a headache but i suppose that is why they pay the big bucks.
"You know what's better than working all the time.....not working all the time" The fact that you said it with a straight face is what did it for me 😂😂
Any hiring team would be concerned about an engineer with 10-20 or more years of experience applying for a junior dev role. Can't see I've never considered it though. ;-)
It’s worse when you’ve been trying to get a jr web dev job for a couple years now and you start having these same thoughts. Fuck Google. There’s life outside of San Francisco.
Great videos Chris. I’m just curious what others think, but couldn’t this all be said for any other job or industry too? I’ve worked in the customer service industry and it was horrible, there was burnout and long hours, and on top of that people yelled at you all day. I don’t think there’s an easy way out of all these issues regardless of what job you do. I’m a software Engineer now and I prefer doing this to customer service or construction. Maybe we just have to pick a job that sucks the least lol. Anyway thanks for your videos Chris. Cheers
Chris, think back ten years about predictions of how you would have felt being here now. There was probably some inaccuracies. Similarly there will be inaccuracies about how you will feel ten years down the road. Square that and that will be your inaccuracy of twenty years. So I believe that it is hard for you (and many others) to understand the percieved unfairness of the systemic ageism. Thanks for your honest and thoughtful videos. Keep up the good work!
A lot of other equivalent (as in same level of brain power needed) careers have qualifications and bodies that protect the field. That may sound like an enormous ball ache, and it's not in-keeping with the freedoms that hacking installs in people. But accountants, lawyers, structural engineers don't suffer this problem - that's for damn sure. So why do software engineers?
@@realchrishawkes companies I work for want 12 hours a day 6 days a week. By the time you go home it's bedtime. The one day off ends up being shopping and laundry and cleaning getting ready for next week. We are slaves in this country in a functional way. Gilded cages.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Chris, I'm a junior right now and I love your videos. You really are the most realistic youtuber that I watch, in dutch we say "not everything in life is about roses"
Every job has it's ups and downs. hopefully I still like programming in 10 years, Else I will just change jobs again.
I've been a postman, truck mechanic, boatmen, and now a programmer. there will always be something to do if you work for it :)
kind regards,
Dennis
Roses? Not tulips..? :3
I'm a Dutch senior developer and most Dutch companies just expect you to work from 9 till 5, also when you are a senior. On the other hand, our salaris are much much lower. I wish I could make 90k or higher.
@@steve81937 Hey Tim, ik ben net klaar met de opleiding media en applicatie ontwikkelaar (mbo 4) en ik zou graag wat advies van je willen.
Still, going as a developer? :)
Are you still a developer?
I've been doing web/software development for about 25 yrs and everything you said is spot on! As you age, the equation flips. Money becomes less important and free time becomes more important. My advice: if you want to own your own business, do it while you're relatively young, when you have the energy and still have time to recover (financially) if it fails. Sincerely, The Old Java Bit Twiddler
Always appreciate these kind of videos. I'm a junior dev, and I've been addicted to coding for a while, but videos like these made me realize that there's more to life. That and my burnout after building a sideproject next to my full time job.
Be careful with the burnout. It's hard to burn back in without giving it a major break.
@@realchrishawkes oh definitely. It was a relatively short burnout, but it caused me to be way less productive at work. I also couldn't touch any code outside of work. I believe it took me a little over two months to go somewhat back to "normal" however about 4 months later I still don't feel like coding outside of work like I did before. I had two weeks off around Christmas which I'm sure is what helped me the most.
You're the real deal. So cool, honest, thoughtful and kind. I'm very appreciative of your offerings. For real Chris. I'm 1 month in to my bootcamp and have taken all your words to heart. Much gratitude!
I appreciate that!
"i have to work everyday" lol
krane rcc Every Day, Saturday and Sunday too
This is my first time watching one of your vids, you were more honest and real about everything than 99% of tech RUclips. Subbed.
Dude, I can't believe how wise you are. You are like a Coding Yoda haha. Thanks for the advice and one of my favorite channels now.
I appreciate that!
It's a tiny percentage of people who will make it to those "partner at law firm" positions you describe, and mostly this is due to pedigree (where you went to school, connection ect). Software development is more realistic.
My girlfriend is an attorney and teaches at a major university in VA. She worked at one of the biggest law firms in the world and I can attest to what you say.
I'm a senior developer. I just got back into job hunting and went through those shitty job descriptions you said. There're a lot of idiotic bullets flying around like "You live and breath in Chrome dev tools", "You don't stop until perfection", "if you think this describes you, please apply". Fuck it.
"You are passionate" Let's see how many programmers will actually do this if the profession is not well-paid.
Thanks for making these realistic videos.
I 100% totally agree this is a shit show. I think these companies are only going to find immature talent who eat and breathe the latest framework and do nothing with it. If I ever hire dev's I want smart level headed people who know what they want out of life or maybe know they are in the process of figuring it out by living theirs day to day. Not someone with no existence outside of superficial hype.
@@dtPlaythroughs lol
All of this stuff is really discouraging. I figured companies would be a bit smarter than this.
I love this guy, I can't stop watching his vids. So many truth bombs
@@robbyz512 I don't want to diminish your hopes, mostly just raising awareness. Follow your dreams whatever they may be. I'm just one guy's opinion on the situation. I've also had a hellish few years but all that makes me stronger and I think more on point with how the world operates.
I learned from your videos a lot (tutorials)
But to be honest, you coming out and speaking like a normal human being, the things that not a lot of people talk about, taught me a lot of things, helped me to balance things and not take shit, one could say pretty early in my career, so I thank you very much
I'm very happy that my videos have helped you. I hear that from time to time and it never gets old.
Enjoy being a jr to mid level dev. As a Senior dev all I do is go to meetings, write docs, write emails explaining things etc. Its literally all I do anymore
So many meetings. Meetings to discuss the meeting coming up and meetings to discuss the plan of action after a meeting. Management is all meetings.
I’ve been a junior dev for about 6 months, really enjoying what I’ve been working on and learning. Even so new, I find people constantly bringing up “so what’s next?” Like I cant enjoy being where I’m at without needing to grind towards the next thing. Idk man, shits exhausting. I’m happy where I am, I’m gonna keep learning at my own pace.
things has changed , This thing you guys say "they don't expect you to know a lot "is not a thing(at least for me). I never got in to a real junior job, they always say that i don't have experience.
Thanks for the video! was really insightful
I'm sorry. I'm not sure what to say but I know it's a real thing.
I'd certainly enjoy it if these people hired me but it seems companys now expect 10x Junior Engineer
Yeah, the expectations are a bit ridiculous right now. It's a fad and unrealistic in the long term. Keep learning.
@@realchrishawkes Thanks Chris. I'm always coding! Your videos keep me sane!
For real, interviewed at an agency that works for top companies and they said juniors haven’t been “fast enough”. Were also looking to pay junior level for design QA & development, you’d think they’d want someone experienced especially to do both jobs. Even said I did great on the html/css client example test but got no reply after following up. I have an enterprise web & mobile dev degree, freelance experience and kept up over few years with courses & projects like a production released custom Laravel/React app with lots of features
@@fortnitebasecamp6343 I feel like I'm gonna be driven to start my own company
@@Bayo106 I honestly think starting a company even if it's only for a short while gives you a different edge. The amount of experience you gain on how business works helps you become an effective team member if you choose to join a company after that. But you might enjoy some of the freedoms owning a business has tho it can be stressful.
The best scenario is getting a remote Junior role and live in a country with a weaker currency. You'll earn like a senior dev in that country but have the responsibilities of a Junior. Lol
I plan to move back to South America and live near the beach, earning even 60~80k on those countries will allow you to live like a king, with more free time
Brought to you by MongoDB? He's moving up in the world
I just hope to motivate others.
@@realchrishawkes you motivate the shit out of me by speaking about software development like a normal human being. It makes it feel so much more attainable to move from a hobbyist dev to a professional dev so I'll keep coming back as long as you make videos
DataBass - Green Finance you can do it! If you’re a hobbyist and don’t have professional experience yet just make a portfolio site and show it during the interview on your laptop. That’s what I did and got me my current job. In fact if you’re doing it for fun (a hobbyist) your golden because that means it’s probably your passion. If you are passionate about the work employers will be begging for you to work for them.
You’re the man Chris. Always enjoy your vids
Thank you!
Subscribed just from watching this video. I'm a medical graduate who is about to start an entry-level web development venture. Once I pay back my medical school debt, I'm quitting and figuring things out on my own. Starting over from scratch is the best feeling in the world. People always want to get to the top but they don't realize the top is lonely. So I plan to always stay in school. I always want to feel like I don't know anything, which means I'll always feel like I have a lot to learn. After software engineering, I plan to learn electrical engineering, then mechanical engineering, then chemical engineering, then finally biomedical engineering. If I get bored, I'll go and do medical school again. If everything feels too easy, I'll get a PhD in math. This way, I'll never find myself at the top. Not knowing how to keep growing is a million times scarier than being weak.
This is also helpful for us aspiring Junior developers. Thanks, Chris.
best quote ever:" you know what's better than working all the time? not working all the time!" I I wish I'll have a chance to not work at all!!
We sometimes make the mistake that we need to work harder to work less, it's about finding the realistic balance I think.
Getting a job as a junior web dev is super hard since it's practically impossible to just be a front end ... everything is full-stack ... Super challenging since it takes a while to be 10*dev
Seems like US market is really different webdev-wise if we reject the positions that are titled in a way that you don't understand wtf that is. In Europe, there are quite a few options that offer the specific route you want to take (front-end or back-end), yet the testing phase if you qualify for job, is equally as retarded and outdated and dull.
My teacher in college was honest saying to stick with it 10 years to ensure being a successful developer so should pay off if your dedicated & enjoy it. I’m at 5 yrs and finally started building my own production-ready projects this past year
@@fortnitebasecamp6343 all I'm saying is if it takes 5 years for me then I'm certainly not starting as a junior. and in 5 years I think I'll be good just starting my own shit.
What about possibilities as a Business Analyst or Data Science Engineer? Systems analyst? Scrum master? Project manager?
Yeah that is a path out of writing code day to day. I've seen people do that.
@@realchrishawkes I am honored by the reply. My mother was a C++ programmer in the late 80s / early to mid 90s. When I was growing up, our standard of living really shot up when she transitioned out of programming into a Business analyst role.
Thanks Chris, appreciate the insight. With everything in life, a lot of the satisfaction you get is from the actual journey to getting where you wanna be.
I'm honestly still trying to figure that out. I think full time RUclipsr and teacher is the goal at this point. That and being the best father I can be.
As a junior dev, I find this inspiring. I resonate with everything that you said. great vid.
Chris you have no idea how much I admire you and love your content! Your the voice of my brain literally!!!
Thank you! I appreciate the comment and I'm happy you get some value out of my content.
Just started as a junior dev this week. I'll keep this is mind. Thanks for the video
Web dev ?
I wish you the best! Good luck!
@@ciprianghenghea7779 yes :)
@@realchrishawkes Thanks Chris! :)
Thank you Chris :)
Good chat! I'm starting my 4th year at my current role that I pretty much created at a start-up. Money is fine, sometimes you just get ready for a new set of problems. Have other teams trying to pull me on to other projects but I'm stuck supporting this start-up. Good problems to have I guess. :-) Sometimes, I'm commuting a lot and others I don't. It tends to balance out in the long run. If not, just take PTO which I have a lot of. I'm struggling with my next car purchase too! Can afford whatever but want to retire and be responsible with my money.
You are really helping me with these videos. I'm 38 now, and surrounded at work by nothing but people in their early twenties, and having a hard time that there is nobody to connect with about feeling very similar to what you're expressing.
Love your video. I'm an entrepreneur, been running my businesses for years and I'm burned out. I've done light programming and I married a programmer. Now I'm working towards getting a junior dev job for cash flow and also a sense of security and stability. It really does make a lot of sense to evaluate that cost of life style to work for money, to make money through various streams of projects, not relying on one thing, one employer and one business. It for sure not only makes more sense financially but also just for a more fulfilled and happier life. Cheers to optimal life vs optimal income. thx
Chris. I think you, like many young people, are trapped in the pursuit of independence, good money and the ability to prove something to someone. I liked your video, the most interesting thing is that programmers are the only people who are starting to talk about it openly. The most common burnout is on the face, and in the pursuit of expensive cars, large houses and other privileges, people understand that they become slaves.
Very true about the pursuit. We lost sight of time and what is truly most important. Money doesn't buy time. It can buy freedom with your time if you're lucky but we never get our time back. It's always a gamble how we spend our time.
I relate with the idea of someday just taking a junior role and kick-in back so to speak. I’m in the 6 figure salary range now and it’s nice but I also have a lot of debt and loans that I need to pay off from my younger days as well as my wife’s student loans. My goal is to eventually pay all that crap off, buy a modest house and then get back to basics making roughly 80k and living my life doing more than just coding. All and all I just want to get to a debt free life and then live modestly, perhaps even do some travel. Shoot! At that time, I would gladly take a lower paying remote job if it meant that I got to move around and have that freedom with no commute, no traffic, no cubical and no hustle. Until then, the grind is real ;)
Best of luck my friend.
Dude, you’re the realest. Keep it goin.
Thank you for your support.
You really made my day... since I feel stupid as junior dev... and that god damn imposter syndrome is killing me... literally I am to god damn shy to talk to anybody who code... since I have feeling that they would say “well how you don’t know this/that as junior dev” since I have had these comments...
Chris! I got a 2014 MX-5 Club. I love it. Also, I want to clue you in on a hidden gem where I live down in Southern Maryland. Don't get me wrong I work hard, but I'm never stressed to the point of burn out. You're not going to make as much as you would in DC, but we're right on the water and the cost of living is cheap.
I really liked the MX-5. 6 speed with the top down is pretty awesome and very affordable.
That was extraordinarily depressing.
Not trying to be. I am just stating how I feel day to day on the channel. Life has it's ups and downs.
@@realchrishawkes Your integrity is not in question nor are your credentials as a great developer. Even though I found this video to be slightly depressing that certainly doesn't mean that I'm disrespecting you as a person or a developer. Pink Floyd are an excellent band (perhaps even my favourite band) and they made some of the most depressing music ever. Don't worry. Your content has massive value and you are a breath of fresh air to the community.
I like your humble approach. My feeling after watching tour videos is that I had the same burnout after having a senior finance role before switching to programming. These local multinationals in Eastern Europe also require lots of personal sacrifice and stress, and the money is less vs software development in these other areas in the manufacturing industry. So you are not alone with the struggle, probably all hard working employees feel the same even in other areas. These companies function by making money using the effort of its employees. I can see lots of former colleagues and managers sacrificing their family life and health to keep their senior positions , for the above average salary... And we don't even have RUclips revenue, as we don't speak English on native level. So it can't be that bad for senior sw engineers in the USA.
Valuable videos man, thanks a lot.
I live in Central VA and almost took a job in Reston. The traffic around DC is insane.
For sure. I live in Great Falls and commute to Chevy Chase. Its hell.
@@realchrishawkes How's the job market up there? Seems like a lot of decent entry level to senior level compared to Central VA. Richmond and Norport seem better than Central too.
@@Legionless tons of jobs up here. Many options in just about every tech field.
I'm junior dev. Been a dev for 1 year. I've never had to work more than 40 hours a week, but I hear it's common, especially at startups, which I don't fully understand. I kind of wish I could be paid hourly, have some required work that takes maybe 20 hours a week, and then the rest is completely optional. But yeah man, work's a grind. I've gotta have a creative outlet, so I make RUclips videos as well, and I work on an open source project or two, since the legal department seems fine with that. I don't plan to work for other people for long. I want to solve problems, but the problems I'm solving right now don't seem particularly meaningful.
Real talk Sir. Thank you.
Super real/honest, thanks.
Damn it! Damn you and your damn reality checks Chris!:p
They may as well just start asking that stuff in interviews. Like how much everyday do you code outside of work. Is this the first time you've left the house in a year/6months/3 months/1month ? It is like there is all this pressure to learn and be relevant yet get all these minor repeatable things done at the same time. If you make those minor things efficient there are a bunch of people that complained but didn't want that. That may be more on the sysadmin side since that is what I do.
Wow, this guy spitting gold. I am going I to Dev. From networking and this is a great video.
How was networking ?? I'm interested to it.Do you think it's more stressful than dev ? And which one would you say it's harder ?
@@ciprianghenghea7779 Networking isn't as stressful (depending on what branch you go to) like firewall isn't very demanding; however, if you are setting up the infrastructure, it's kinda stressful. (Lot of waiting on other people) once you've done it once, you realize it's pretty much the same for every other project. Maybe you are one of the many who see cyber security as a hell of a lot of fun. (Don't get me wrong, I think it's fun too) especially if you are a contractor who works on company security. Lots of traveling, you go to those companies, you find the holes in their security, and give them a list of what to do to prevent it/fix it. (More often then not, they will put 30% - 60%~ of your suggestions into practice, because they realize how expensive it is to replace. example: replace all there Cisco switches made before 2015) in summary, I think this field is like trading hunger/drive, for a less stressful job, the most important thing is to watch out for new bugs/exploits (there will never be a shortage of that, in fact it's only gunna get more crazy from here.) A Dev job that I am headed for, I am hoping to have project driven jobs and black and white deadlines. The creativity in the office might not be wonderful due to stipulations, but I can go home and apply what I know in making an app using flutter and deploying or making a windows/Linux application or using machine learning to do crazy stuff lol.
@@ciprianghenghea7779 I'm curious what your experience is in Dev, do I have some "rose colored glasses" and should I expect something like demotivation? I am only a few months into a Dev job for ServiceNow API.
Thank you for the compliment. I really appreciate that.
Will you talk more about what it is like to have a 2 hour commute, and talk more about it what is specifically what it is that you do not like about working in the heart of DC?
I will, that is on my mind a lot lately. I have lots to say about the corporate grind.
@@realchrishawkes I'm especially curious if you would hate DC just as much if you could walk to work? Btw, I'm in the area; I've been meaning to send you an email, keep your eye out.
Switch to Wordpress freelancing, work from where you want, total freedom! Like people who selling freelancing courses promises ))))))))
Give your best man!
Thank you!
A lot of the senior managers at my job think I want to be in their shoes but on the contrary I would hate it. They work 80 hours a week and have constant burn out. For me, I wfh whenever and a typical work day for me is 6h a day. I doubt their even making over 200k for essentially their life.
Lesson on Coding Big time Management Consultants make that much for about 80 hrs a week
Yep being "new" is certainly fun. And totally with you on working all the time. I'm surprised so many people fall for it. "Free hours".
EVERY JOB has the same description! And the money is never good. It's not like your developing products for yourself/company.
We're looking for somebody with no life and knows everything etc... etc...
In one week I'm starting an actual front end job (I'm a wordpress developer now) and I'm actually terribly afraid of getting burned out down the line. I know it's something I enjoy immensily but what if?
I guess I'll find out starting next week!
Yeah just make sure you're listening to your gut feeling. You can burn out and it's difficult to pull yourself out of that.
At times i think that it would be more healthy(in terms of work-life balance and stresfullness/burnout) and more beneficial(in terms of money) to find 2 middle or middle+ positions, instead of trying to become senior/tech lead/team lead in one company... I have a friend that works at 2 jobs as a middle+ dev netting 10k a month, but he works only 2 to 3 hours a day cause he is able to finish all his tasks in that time with 10+ years of experience...
That seems pretty ideal.
It comes with a level of prestige vs just driving a truck and making the same as a junior dev. Maybe I will just go get my CDL just for fun who knows. Except that is being automated also with diver-less trucks. Let's face it, the future is in tech. Happiness isn't about how much you make (after you make a certain salary), it's about having financial security (at least for me). I only judge my success and happiness by how many years I can go if I am fired today and have no income.
Living in the DMV have you ever programmed for the government or gov contractor?
I just turned down the highest salary I would have ever had with a gov contractor. Long story but I'll probably talk about it on RUclips at some point.
@@realchrishawkes would love to hear the story. Out of Arlington myself working for a govt contractor
@@realchrishawkes Thanks please do
That's a relief. So, there are 50-year-old junior devs?
I met a 54 year old who went to school for 2 years and got hired as a junior. He had no prior experience prior to going to school so I know it's possible first hand, I just don't know how often that happens. Ageism is real, but the industry is growing and changing all the time.
If you work hard enough and competent, you would always find a job.
💯
This video saddened me, but it opened my eyes.
i thought seniors job was to boss over juniors or like a leader thing
Startup or company? You're missing the freelance option. Also assembling a small team and making niche software and sites.
In the USA, benefits, mostly healthcare are what prevent us from working for ourselves. Stability with children is a big deal as well.
@@realchrishawkes oh I understand. Thanks for the reply.
Thanks for the insight Chris 😀
Thank you for watching!
What if you would switch to a different field? E.g. if you are a senior developer in web development, you could start embedded systems development, specialize into computer graphics or audio processing, etc. But probably you would start as a junior developer again and don't make as much money anymore, right? Or does a senior developer count as a senior developer no matter what field?
Doing some programming on the side and got myself an MX-5 (isn't that a 'Miata' in the States?) as well ;)
I'm not sure when the MX-5 came into play. My car had that written on the door panels and rugs and stuff.
Where is the woman in the swimming pool?
Being sponsored by MongoDB is very cool.
Thank you
Really great to learn about the industry from your experience. I especially like what you said about reducing salary and hiring two people. It would be great to see what the future holds for pair programming at companies. I'm enrolled in a remote pair programming bootcamp (Microverse) right now and I find that pair programming reduces pressure, improves accountability, and increases productivity.
I think pair programming is pretty effective except for people who don't perform well with somebody watching over their shoulder. Pair programming should only be with people who know and feel comfortable talking and being around one another. Sadly, this is not the case in the development world.
@@realchrishawkes That makes a lot of sense. Chemistry is important.
Nice Chris, So what should be the do's n don'ts before switching...
Idk man. Most businesses require stupidly easy apps where your CS degree is 100% wasted. Educational programming is really the way to go. It's a lot of fun to mentor talented, aspiring programmers. Keep it up!
Why is it that if you search for job for angular or net core, there is mostly senior positions? Because they think that only seniors have that skill?
I realised yesterday that most junior jobs are not even advertised. dont ask me why. the industry is fucked
I think they are lying, maybe because its hard to find a really good person and they know that most people know react but not angular. But it doesnt make sense how they post the salary to be $110,000 - $130,000 for senior developer for that job role. I think that should be a junior pay for having that skill. And then for senior level should be $160k +. I say that because I know there is some people who enter as a junior at $80k for react and ruby on rails.
Given the size of your channel, there are a number of businesses you could create where you have a substantial advantage. I *do* create tutorials and even at just 2.5k subs it monetizes well thanks to a connected site with premium videos for paying members. That's not the end of it, either. I'm using it as a stepping stone to build a SaaS aimed at a broader audience.
I totally get that with kids to provide for that you can't tolerate the same risk a 20 year-old could. I'm just saying that once really start to think about what a distribution channel like 150k YT followers makes possible, I'd say that by 2025 the odds of you being a FT employee is very low.
1:44 yeah I am 63 and can attest to that coding since I was 19
That video was great. I felt I could have said all the same things ! Work in Manhattan at a fintech and totally not motivated anymore. Make as much as I am going to make and hope in five years to work for a junior salary remotely from some beachfront location that’s cheap. Trapped as a wage slave thanks to college tuition for kids and my expensive lifestyle. Not fun being owned by banks and universities and lacking control
You are sincere :)
I hope good knowledge of vanilla js, html, css and react can land me a junior position. Javascript is a headache but i suppose that is why they pay the big bucks.
"You know what's better than working all the time.....not working all the time"
The fact that you said it with a straight face is what did it for me 😂😂
Any hiring team would be concerned about an engineer with 10-20 or more years of experience applying for a junior dev role. Can't see I've never considered it though. ;-)
I would wish to have a coding job. That would be great!
Hi Chris, your link in the description does not work, I see only a 404 not found message! Maybe you want fix that problem! Greets from Italy :)
Thank you for reporting that, I appreciate it. I fixed it.
It’s worse when you’ve been trying to get a jr web dev job for a couple years now and you start having these same thoughts. Fuck Google. There’s life outside of San Francisco.
Great videos Chris. I’m just curious what others think, but couldn’t this all be said for any other job or industry too? I’ve worked in the customer service industry and it was horrible, there was burnout and long hours, and on top of that people yelled at you all day. I don’t think there’s an easy way out of all these issues regardless of what job you do. I’m a software Engineer now and I prefer doing this to customer service or construction. Maybe we just have to pick a job that sucks the least lol. Anyway thanks for your videos Chris. Cheers
What brand/model is the sunglasses?
how did you get mongodb as a sponsor? thats awesome
great insight, thanks
It's honest! Thank you!
8:50, hehe, instant like.
Chris, think back ten years about predictions of how you would have felt being here now. There was probably some inaccuracies. Similarly there will be inaccuracies about how you will feel ten years down the road. Square that and that will be your inaccuracy of twenty years. So I believe that it is hard for you (and many others) to understand the percieved unfairness of the systemic ageism. Thanks for your honest and thoughtful videos. Keep up the good work!
great vid
Thank you!
Very interesting perspective!
90k is a junior level salary? wut?
Wow, thanks, this was very honest
Could a gouvernment job be the best ?
The best glasses in the world
lol. These are a cheaper brand. In the past I'm wearing 400.00 armani and Persol but these are cheap glasses. I broke the other two.
@@realchrishawkes aww but they make u look cool
Your hands are down, youre walking and all, whos holding the camera?
I have a film crew. Jk, it's a selfie stick
You sound and look a lot like SavageGeese, the guy who reviews vehicles.
No idea who that is, but I'm just me.
A lot of other equivalent (as in same level of brain power needed) careers have qualifications and bodies that protect the field. That may sound like an enormous ball ache, and it's not in-keeping with the freedoms that hacking installs in people. But accountants, lawyers, structural engineers don't suffer this problem - that's for damn sure. So why do software engineers?
About eggs I agreed 100%. 🍳
why i keep thinking you work in FBI 😆
CIA
Thank you :)
Thank you for watching!
It's messed up how we view things in living as a society. Are we living? Or filling a cog in a machine?
I think it's our outlook but the reality is we're mostly cogs in the machine.
@@realchrishawkes companies I work for want 12 hours a day 6 days a week. By the time you go home it's bedtime. The one day off ends up being shopping and laundry and cleaning getting ready for next week. We are slaves in this country in a functional way. Gilded cages.