Haha good post. Just watched it and I'm asking myself like an armchair expert, "What's going with the pilot's AoA?! It's all over the place! Trim down dammit, trim down"
@@Brittjones Yes DCS world is very realistic all the important stuff is functioning. And looks very well done and even hard to tell the difference kudos to the developers.
Completely agree. I was CTW-1 LSO 30 years ago and all I saw was a consistently high ball with very little attempt to bring it down on any pass. Comfortable fairs, but the comments made it appear that some of these were graded as OK’s. In my experience, if you ever saw a full ball deviation during a pass, an OK was out of the question. Anyway, not trying to hate here - in my fleet days in the A-7, I was absolutely a hud cripple at night, but we did all the TRACOM CQ in A-4’s and T-2’s and there was nothing like a hud!
Once you call the ball should you be concentrating on your speed, and forget the E bracket ? just focus on the ball, which should render your flight path market irrelevant ?
AOA is your speed. Meatball, lineup, AOA all the way down. The HUD VV can show trends early and help keep the corrections small but are a secondary reference.
Hard to tell, which ship is this in the video? My first guess would be G.H.W. Bush (CVN-77) due to the fact that I don't see a large free standing mast aft of the island.
When you start getting ready to recover by lowering landing gear, flaps, etc. some HUD elements get turned off automatically. For example, on the left it's only displaying alpha where usually you would also have indicators for your current and peak G force.
It’s the E Bracket, shows accurately the AoA of the aircraft, if it's higher up the HUD, the AoA is too low because the speed is too fast, so the pilot will reduce power slightly, E-bracket too low, and the pilot will apply power, AoA has to be pretty spot on so the hook hits the wire. Many aircraft have it, even the RAF Hawk training aircraft. Get a PC and buy DCS F18 and become an expert 👍
On speed AOA indicator, you want the velocity vector to be as close to the middle as possible, on the hornet that means 8.1* AOA at 3 degrees glide slope
When performing a carrier landing, you do know you're flying angle of attack which is significantly influenced by gross weight which will vary depending on fuel. You're looking for a 500 ft/min rate of descent which equates to a 3 degree glide slope. Thus, you control airspeed with vertical nose attitude and rate of descent by throttle. Thus, your airspeed will tend to vary based on aircraft type and weight. Essentially, you are flying the back side of the lift to drag curve; and as previously mentioned, this is a T-45C.
Arthipex - no, not really. Even though HUDs have similar symbology which has evolved over the last decades and different views (or information) pilot-selected depending on the mission (weapons, air-to-air, APC, ...), this is from a Goshawk T-45C as flown by Kingsville's VT-22. This student is "calling the ball"; what you hear is his side number, aircraft type (Goshawk), "ball" (i.e. he acknowledges he sees the OLS meatball otherwise he would say "Clara"), his fuel state (1.5~1.2...), and his student qualification number (Echo-1 aka "E-1, i.e. he is a student in training). There is also a T-45C taxiing on the deck on one view, finally he has a very mellow LSO which is usually what students need on their carrier quals. Ciao, L
Hi Arthipex, you are welcome - it is hard for someone who is not used to it to understand what this student is saying as he is "rolling into the groove", calling the ball. Usually, when students are qualifying on an aircraft carrier, the Landing Signal Officer (LSO or "Paddles", the guy that says "Roger Ball") is very gentle as not to overload a student that is already stressed enough. This LSO you are hearing is very "mellow" - some are not especially if he foresees that the student is going to get in trouble in which case you (the student) gets "waved off" and get to do it again or if worse, get to be sent back to base. Have a nice weekend, Ciao, L
The video you saw was describing the OLS, which there was an actual example of one sitting behind a fence at whatever museum, park, etc the display was at. The voice was coming from one of those deals where you push a button at the display and it gives you a recorded description. The OLS on the boat isn't actually behind a fence.
So who can give an answer on the “settle” comment, I think it’s the in short aircraft behavior where they reduce pitch just before touchdown to make sure they hit the wires?
It's the LSO commentary on where the ball was during the groove. Research the LSO NATOPS manual and it will give you all the answers. There were a couple of non-egregious settles (or falling below glideslope) at the ramp or fly-through downs (\AR). Pilot took just a touch too much power off right before flying into the wires, that's why you can see the meatball fall off the lens a couple milliseconds before the traps.
I know you wrote this a long time ago, but....no, flying high is dangerous because you are underpowered (to maintain a rate of descent to get back to center). If you fly your whole approach with a 'low' ball, you will probably bolter because you need to carry more power to remain low (and trying to work yourself up). If high, you will be underpowered to keep from going higher, and that is always dangerous. We ALWAYS try to get it back to the center -- and never accept being high or low. (Ex Navy attack pilot).
After trapping the speed was 50 knotts still ... in others, 48 knots. Meaning closure of only 70. (amazing). Obviously they're travelling into the wind, but that means the boats moving some 34 knotts or so.
bloody eck, second run, 15 degrees AoA and 115kn, that could have gone very wrong very quickly, didn't think flying that slow in the Hornet was even possible !! All of those landings looked knarly to my unprofessional eye :D
Its a T45 Goshawk. But regardless I've seen Hornets fly way slower then this with full control at 70 degrees AoA while doing circles over the runway. Things were much different in the 80s and 90s if you were High Rank.
The Goshawk doesnt measure AOA in degrees. the symbiology is 15 units which is on speed aoa. and at full flaps with only 1000 lbs of gas on speed is 116 kias. If he was doing anything unsafe the LSO would have said something or waved him off.
It appears that line up is a problem. But, if I had video from my initial T-2/TA-4 passes (circa 1978) on the Lady Lex, I wonder what THEY would look like! Probably ugly.... So. What are you flying now? How's it go?... Meatball, line up angle, of attack... Meatball, line up angle, of attack... Meatball, line up ... Meatball, line up ... Meatball Meatball Meatball
Hi Kayakutah, I remember my tendencies in the training command (VT-26/VT-24) circa 1981 was a high start to a settle in close - for some reason, I just liked to "hug" the carrier and... let's face it, Lady Lex was small (or short)... Ciao, L
Is it unconscious, he almost always finishes his turn at the right altitude and then mess it by going high. Too bad... Well better be high than too low
![Finesse2Tymes - Pretty Ricky [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xIoP_mhYRT0/mqdefault.jpg)
I find it amazing that Flight simulators are becoming so real that I can understand everything in these videos.
DCS world?
@Jimmy Why is it a stupid question? Not everyone lives in the sim world.
Haha good post. Just watched it and I'm asking myself like an armchair expert, "What's going with the pilot's AoA?! It's all over the place! Trim down dammit, trim down"
Well It’s their function after all...
@@Brittjones Yes DCS world is very realistic all the important stuff is functioning.
And looks very well done and even hard to tell the difference kudos to the developers.
This Roger Ball guy is good.
Auf einen Flugzeugträger zu landen ist eine absolut tolle Leistung. Klasse Piloten. Respekt.
Completely agree. I was CTW-1 LSO 30 years ago and all I saw was a consistently high ball with very little attempt to bring it down on any pass. Comfortable fairs, but the comments made it appear that some of these were graded as OK’s. In my experience, if you ever saw a full ball deviation during a pass, an OK was out of the question. Anyway, not trying to hate here - in my fleet days in the A-7, I was absolutely a hud cripple at night, but we did all the TRACOM CQ in A-4’s and T-2’s and there was nothing like a hud!
Good to know I'm not the only one doing less than stellar carrier recovery in DCS ;)
that second pass was definitely spotting the deck
Nice work VT22 GE's!
As a former LSO of VT-21 I saw every pass as high all the way. Seems pilots are not ball flyers but HUD cripples.
Once you call the ball should you be concentrating on your speed, and forget the E bracket ? just focus on the ball, which should render your flight path market irrelevant ?
AOA is your speed. Meatball, lineup, AOA all the way down. The HUD VV can show trends early and help keep the corrections small but are a secondary reference.
facts. like the last one started nice and then ended going above glideslope. I was all the way triggered lol.
Hard to tell, which ship is this in the video? My first guess would be G.H.W. Bush (CVN-77) due to the fact that I don't see a large free standing mast aft of the island.
I’m using this so I can land in my vr sim thank you
Super vidéo Thanks
This is a decluttered HUD right. The pilot can remove alot of stuff to make it more simple for landings?
It's a Goshawk T-45C HUD, and since I've never saw one of those, I can't tell if it's decluttered or not.
When you start getting ready to recover by lowering landing gear, flaps, etc. some HUD elements get turned off automatically. For example, on the left it's only displaying alpha where usually you would also have indicators for your current and peak G force.
That’s the way the HUD is normally.
Awesome 👍✈️
I wonder why they designed the ball to be opposite what an ILS shows you when high or low.
What is the "E" to the left of the aircraft index? Is that the glide slope?
It’s the E Bracket, shows accurately the AoA of the aircraft, if it's higher up the HUD, the AoA is too low because the speed is too fast, so the pilot will reduce power slightly, E-bracket too low, and the pilot will apply power, AoA has to be pretty spot on so the hook hits the wire. Many aircraft have it, even the RAF Hawk training aircraft. Get a PC and buy DCS F18 and become an expert 👍
Thanx, Lain
On speed AOA indicator, you want the velocity vector to be as close to the middle as possible, on the hornet that means 8.1* AOA at 3 degrees glide slope
Thank you, Nike
This guy doesn't like the centerline. Obviously, great flying though.
Meatball, Line up, Angel of Attack....... Tough to do at 130 kts. especially as student with very limited experience.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but why cant they put an ILS on the ship to help them?
The Ball is more precise than the ILS and offers the same information.
Pass 6 will get you a string of Okay 3’s on cruise. Especially at night.
It is F-18? I am usually landing faster in DCS, more like 135 not this slow.
It's a T-45 C
When performing a carrier landing, you do know you're flying angle of attack which is significantly influenced by gross weight which will vary depending on fuel. You're looking for a 500 ft/min rate of descent which equates to a 3 degree glide slope. Thus, you control airspeed with vertical nose attitude and rate of descent by throttle. Thus, your airspeed will tend to vary based on aircraft type and weight. Essentially, you are flying the back side of the lift to drag curve; and as previously mentioned, this is a T-45C.
F18 is usually around 130kts. Maybe 125 when empty.
What airplane ist this? Looks like F/A-18? But why is AOA so high?
T-45 Goshawk
Yes, it's an F/A-18. An AOA of about 12° maximizes the chance of catching one of the cables.
Arthipex - no, not really. Even though HUDs have similar symbology which has evolved over the last decades and different views (or information) pilot-selected depending on the mission (weapons, air-to-air, APC, ...), this is from a Goshawk T-45C as flown by Kingsville's VT-22. This student is "calling the ball"; what you hear is his side number, aircraft type (Goshawk), "ball" (i.e. he acknowledges he sees the OLS meatball otherwise he would say "Clara"), his fuel state (1.5~1.2...), and his student qualification number (Echo-1 aka "E-1, i.e. he is a student in training). There is also a T-45C taxiing on the deck on one view, finally he has a very mellow LSO which is usually what students need on their carrier quals. Ciao, L
Thanks for the clarification, the HUD fooled me.
Hi Arthipex, you are welcome - it is hard for someone who is not used to it to understand what this student is saying as he is "rolling into the groove", calling the ball. Usually, when students are qualifying on an aircraft carrier, the Landing Signal Officer (LSO or "Paddles", the guy that says "Roger Ball") is very gentle as not to overload a student that is already stressed enough. This LSO you are hearing is very "mellow" - some are not especially if he foresees that the student is going to get in trouble in which case you (the student) gets "waved off" and get to do it again or if worse, get to be sent back to base. Have a nice weekend, Ciao, L
I'm confused, I just watched a video stating that the lights/lens are on the ship, "behind the fence". I don't see that here???
At 3.17 you'll see the meatball and horizon at the very left edge of screen about a third from the bottom of screen...you can track it back from there
The video you saw was describing the OLS, which there was an actual example of one sitting behind a fence at whatever museum, park, etc the display was at. The voice was coming from one of those deals where you push a button at the display and it gives you a recorded description. The OLS on the boat isn't actually behind a fence.
ل ---- أبُلِيَّسَّ شِيِطَأنٍَ ألَأَنْ -------->
So who can give an answer on the “settle” comment, I think it’s the in short aircraft behavior where they reduce pitch just before touchdown to make sure they hit the wires?
Settling is when the plane starts increase its rate of descent
It's the LSO commentary on where the ball was during the groove. Research the LSO NATOPS manual and it will give you all the answers. There were a couple of non-egregious settles (or falling below glideslope) at the ramp or fly-through downs (\AR). Pilot took just a touch too much power off right before flying into the wires, that's why you can see the meatball fall off the lens a couple milliseconds before the traps.
@@DestroyerDunnski Thanks!
... roger ball- OH SHIT!!!!
i heard someone say flying a lil high is the safes place to be and i think this guy was tranning so he not doing that bad
I know you wrote this a long time ago, but....no, flying high is dangerous because you are underpowered (to maintain a rate of descent to get back to center). If you fly your whole approach with a 'low' ball, you will probably bolter because you need to carry more power to remain low (and trying to work yourself up). If high, you will be underpowered to keep from going higher, and that is always dangerous. We ALWAYS try to get it back to the center -- and never accept being high or low. (Ex Navy attack pilot).
What’s settle mean? Too high angle of attack?
It means your aircraft is losing altitude too quickly. You are "settling" below glide slope.
there's no much room between the bank and the landing huh
You can tell by the 120 knots that its not a Hornet hhh
After trapping the speed was 50 knotts still ... in others, 48 knots. Meaning closure of only 70. (amazing).
Obviously they're travelling into the wind, but that means the boats moving some 34 knotts or so.
Looks good to me, but I’ve never done a carrier recovery. It’d be nice to hear from only U.S. Navy carrier pilots and not video people.
What's the 1.4 (or any other number) he says before acknowledging he has the ball?
Fuel state in thousands of lbs.
@@nyandyn Thanks
Modex,Type of Aircraft followed with Ball,Fuel State.
What is the blinking W?
wave off the landing
mjproebstle no
It’s his radar altimeter.
W for radar altitude low warning
bloody eck, second run, 15 degrees AoA and 115kn, that could have gone very wrong very quickly, didn't think flying that slow in the Hornet was even possible !! All of those landings looked knarly to my unprofessional eye :D
Its a T45 Goshawk. But regardless I've seen Hornets fly way slower then this with full control at 70 degrees AoA while doing circles over the runway. Things were much different in the 80s and 90s if you were High Rank.
The Goshawk doesnt measure AOA in degrees. the symbiology is 15 units which is on speed aoa. and at full flaps with only 1000 lbs of gas on speed is 116 kias. If he was doing anything unsafe the LSO would have said something or waved him off.
@@jksdfgyjfhgud On speed in the T-45C is 17u. Full slow is >18u. Full fast is
It appears that line up is a problem. But, if I had video from my initial T-2/TA-4 passes (circa 1978) on the Lady Lex, I wonder what THEY would look like! Probably ugly....
So. What are you flying now? How's it go?...
Meatball, line up angle, of attack...
Meatball, line up angle, of attack...
Meatball, line up ...
Meatball, line up ...
Meatball
Meatball
Meatball
Ah yes, ol lady lex: what memories. MEATBALL!!! looks like hes spotting the deck
Hi Kayakutah, I remember my tendencies in the training command (VT-26/VT-24) circa 1981 was a high start to a settle in close - for some reason, I just liked to "hug" the carrier and... let's face it, Lady Lex was small (or short)... Ciao, L
I find it interesting that while I haven't seen the back end of a boat in 45 years, I still find myself focusing on that ball!
As long as you got an OK on each pass!! BZ
@@lancelot1953 Your tendencies? Sure ok.
Is it unconscious, he almost always finishes his turn at the right altitude and then mess it by going high. Too bad... Well better be high than too low
It's taught that way in the VTs. The "game plan" pass is on and on start, TMPIM HCDIC-AR
ل ----
قال الله تعالى(أَحَسِبَ النَّاسُ أَن يُتْرَكُوا أَن يَقُولُوا آمَنَّا وَهُمْ لَا يُفْتَنُونَ)الآيه يُفْتَنُونَ يُفْتَنُونَ يُفْتَنُونَ
(OK) 4 (LUL)X (LO)IM LODRIC NCAR ........ ;-)