@@jcee6886 I wouldn't see it in a negative way. His excitement along with varying mood and passion for the subject definitely come across. You can see he has to actively pause to allow the other man to speak. This actually shows how self-aware and controlled he is in an excitable mood - something very rare
Stephen certainly has such a way of debating and I couldn’t agree more. In this particular case I’d say ‘dialogue’ might me a more accurate description of his aim and approach.
I also applaud S. Fry's social graces, but who told U that this was a Debate ? Not a friendly conversation, between like minded scholars ? As is my wish for Palestinians & Hebrews.
Never said it meant perfect...I pointed out the flaw in the OPs statement. An intelligent person knows when they do not know something and Mr Pinker made his statement as a statement of fact, not a statement of opinion.
@@r13hd22 yes, fallible. Especially when he said "Capitalism is just superior. That 's just a fact." On Joe Rogan. That's...just a fact, Steven? Since when do scientists say things like...well, that's just a fact. That's that. Now what about that scientific method, bruv?
@@tinylittlevampire Umm, yes they actually do say things like "Thats just a fact" when a thing has been proven beyond a doubt when looking at all information...and Capitalism IS superior. Socialism only looks good to those lacking in most information not only about both economies, but also about history.
What I love about these two is every time they speak I find myself compelled to take notes, pause and rewatch, then go and study the concepts, terms, and history I hadn't heard of before. Almost nothing else in life can spark in me the yearning to learn, as much as listening and watching superior minds in discourse. Both these men, as well as the other "horsemen of new atheism" fill me with awe and inspiration.
The Enlightenment belongs to the phenomenon that is humanity, and not to atheism as an ideology, we have all benefited from the enlightenment and we can all use it together to create new ways to improve the lives of all, especially in the areas of peace. To suggest that only reason, science, humanism, and progress are the natural benefiters of the enlightenment is to hijack it and make it exclusive to an atheist agenda - i.e. that which has a proven record of utter destruction to humanity!
Its great that guys like me, ordinary construction worker types can find a huge amount of interest in things that not long ago would be very difficult if not impossible to hear for anyone but students and other proffessors.. I even understand most of the words.
Alan Roberts Don’t discount yourself: just to like exploring such conversation is admirable and how else to “get to Carnegie Hall” except to practice...and grow. Until annoying mouth smacking drives ME away!
“The only people who seem to bother with language in public today bother with it in quite the wrong way. They write letters to broadcasters and newspapers in which they are rude and haughty about other people’s usage, and in which they show off their own superior ‘knowledge’ of how language should be. I hate that, and I particularly hate the fact that so many of these pedants assume that I am on their side.” - Stephen Fry
Pinker is just great. Better Angels blew my mind. The defense of modernity is sorely needed and almost never aired in this age, and I didn't even know that until I read the book.
"The Blank Slate" and "How the Mind Works" are well worth reading. If anything, he so soundly and brilliantly crushed the issues he approached that popular science has all seemed pretty boring to me, since then. And some current cultural arguments still seem almost deranged--"Pinker already won this argument in 2002."
Arguably, the best 1hr 18 minutes I've spent on RUclips for a hell of a long time... I could listen to these Intellectual Leviathans converse many times over.
I absolutely love Stephen Fry he does so much for the world. His impact on generations to come should never be understated. With people like stephen who even needs a god?
The Enlightenment belongs to the phenomenon that is humanity, and not to atheism as an ideology, we have all benefited from the enlightenment and we can all use it together to create new ways to improve the lives of all, especially in the areas of peace. To suggest that only reason, science, humanism, and progress are the natural benefiters of the enlightenment is to hijack it and make it exclusive to an atheist agenda - i.e. that which has a proven record of utter destruction to humanity!
What a wonderful event - I wish I'd been there in person! Really enjoyable talk between two very different but extremely eloquent and intelligent people.
Unlike daddy Peterson who constantly has to rely on name calling and reminding his alt right fans why they’re wasting so much money on his Patreon account.
Isnt name dropping a way of letting the listeners know that the idea you are about to say comes from somebody else? Like how you put a source on a statistical evidence because it wasn't you who conducted the test/survey?
Shadow Heart: who hurt you? Nothing more pathetic than a snowflake commenting on an opposite snowflake about commenting not realising the irony of the comment
I love Pinker, love how he stays simple and general in his answers until the interviewer presses for elaboration or the other interviewee ratchets up the debate, and then Pinker opens the gates to myriad examples and explanations. But I do wish, if it's in him, that one time he would confess a love for something totally irrational like dancing to the Doobie Brothers.
23:17 Love this: "To treat other people and ultimately other sentient creatures as equivalent in interests to my own." That's why we need to upgrade Humanism to @Sentientism: "evidence, reason and compassion for all sentient beings." A simple worldview, but one with radical, positive implications - for us human animals, for non-human animals and for the planet we all share. Maybe the next edition of Enlightenment Now will be subtitled "The Case for Reason, Science, Sentientism and Progress" :)
Problems: 1. defining sentience. At what point on the spectrum of sentience or the ability to react to external stimuli, do we draw the line. Most plants and fungi could be described as having senses. 2. bacon.
@@emdiar6588 Thanks for your reply! 1) That challenge doesn't undermine the moral salience of sentience. Other terms like "life", "human" and "person" face similar challenges - yet they remain useful. My suggested approach is not to think of Sentience as a strict binary on/off - but as something that likely has fuzzy edges (like "life") - in our understanding of it if not in reality. We can use science to work out, always imperfectly, where that fuzziness is. We can also grade sentience. So far I've seen no evidence that plants/fungi experience suffering or flourishing - but if they did, maybe that experience would be less intense than that of animals? As ever, let's follow the science. And wherever it is and whoever experiences it - surely all suffering matters morally? 2) I get that taste pleasures are important to many people. But are they really important enough to justify the suffering & death involved in satisfying them? Particularly as the alternatives available can give other wonderful taste experiences without causing suffering & death. Even the plant-based bacons are getting really good. Well worth a try if you love the smoky taste. Most find that the taste pleasure of bacon is much more about smoke and salt than it is about the flesh of sentient pigs. Personally, any pleasure I used to take from consuming animal products has now been replaced by a deep ethical disgust at what those products are, how they were made and what that meant for the experiences of the sentient beings involved and their families.
if men-women like these men, with such insights & visions would be 'in power' (gouvernements) in the whole world, what a difference society would be...
Let's hope we get there someday... we're still evolving, and barley out of the dark ages, so despite the current political situation, I think there's hope in the long run. I know, call me over optimistic, but still! ✌
@Reggie Cyde Do you remember when Harvard's the Best and the Brightest ran US policy? Disaster. My experience is that academics can be a pretty petty bunch...has nothing to do with brain size and intellectual interests.
@Reggie Cyde God is dead meaning that theres no morality once God is 'killed' according to Nietzsche. But you're right man is deified, nevertheless it doesn't take away that Atheism is a religion.
I wish there was a Stephen Fry digital overlay that I could put on all my devices. Whenever I don't understand something (or just for fun), I can push a button and Stephen Fry's wonderfully gracious voice will explain what I'm currently looking at or working on.
I have really enjoyed Steven Pinker's books, but I think my favourite moment of his was when he played electric guitar on the roof of Buckingham Palace. \m/
Bravo Steven Pinker! Thank you for helping to spearhead the course correction of Culture, Politics and Academia. When I realized that a well respected Lefty had been speaking out, I actually felt a noticeable sense of relief from the overwhelming injustice of what has been going on.
I love how excited Stephen is in the video. He knows he's going to be talking to one of the tiny group of people on the planet with a bigger brain than him. It's like the Mensa equivalent of going to see Santa!!
Love this perspective!! Hope both left and right be humble enough to take cues from Mr. Pinker's work to continue progress without falling into insensible pseudo sense of moral superiority.
No he isn't. I have to agree with @Cliff Hanley. I love Fry...but his ego runs away with him when he is the interviewer...his basic feelings of being 'less than' are exposed. Sad, since he is such a brilliant man.
He is not always 'the authority' on the subject, yet insists on inputting his shining "look what I know" statements.... It's not a big thing. As I've said, I'm a big fan of his and he is a very brilliant man.
The fact that this video has 500k views while some cat videos have 50M views is just saddening. I feel like I learn something new every time I listen to Stephen Fry or Steven Pinker, especially when they're having a conversation. Amazing.
Proves people react more strongly to cute stuff than smart stuff. Of course, one could possess both qualities. My friend's cat is a true intellectual, he comes up with novel ideas all the time.
And? The point isn't to prove their intellect but to make the public think. What do you mean "extravagant jargon"? Are you intimidated by articulate speakers that have actually glanced at a dictionary or read books? Comprehension of a language helps with explanation of ideas. They actually think and consider what they say instead of spewing the first banality that comes to mind.
I think like "Tea & cookies," an interview/chat-up between Pinker & Peterson would be absolutely delightful! These two intellectuals could only enhance one another. Both men are articulately polite, in full mature control of their emotions, and share the joy; the sheer enthusiasm of discovering new ideas; regardless the degree of interest being equally mutual. I have read '12 Rules' & Pinker's 'The Stuff Of Thought' as well. I'd like to know what is the 'hot-beverage' of their choice!!!
Steven Pinker had a greater influence on me giving up on religion then any of the four horsemen. I have read the blank slate and better angels. I am looking forward to reading enlightenment now.
Love these two guys! Steven must be manic here as he looks like he's about to burst. If so his performance is even more impressive. Great conversation!
11:58 this is the sexiest pronunciation of "Aufklärung" I have ever heard from an Englishman. Even though his way to say it is a bit cliche: Hard, aggressive and with a very throaty "r". I love it.
@@sammavacaist I'd bet that it is because they somehow oppose your political ideology that you now have to go into the comments and for no reason whatsoever live out your foolish emotional state of anger because you lack the capability of controlling it yourself.
@@sammavacaist It caused him pain that he isn't attractive? I'd like the source on that, and even if so, I don't find Pinker unattractive, and besides all of that, what exactly has that to do with any of the ideas that were discussed or the fact that someone finds the pronounciation of Aufklärung sexy? You're not really contributing to anything here and I wonder where that drive to spread hatred comes from.
Enjoyed this! Correction: Derrida actually defined deconstructionism as moving from what the text means to say to what the text is constrained to mean (i.e. Meaning in language/writing/speaking is constrained but to social layers not just physical reality). Foucault simply added that discourse (e.g. how we discuss gender, mental health and education) often serves the function of propagating power relationships between certain groups (doctors/patients, men/women, adults/children). Postmodernism accepts the facts of reality but simply considers how those facts play out in the social world.
Two substantial minds enlightening us on The Enlightenment, Fry & Pinker tell of the Scientific Revolution. I'd suggest that Gutenberg's printing press was the real major trigger nearly 200 years earlier. Earlier literacy was limited to those who could afford the expensive hand-copied text & books to read, but the poor majority had plenty of its citizens wanting to know what was in those books, and how to respond in writing. Affordable, mass-produced books opened a portal to knowledge for the inquisitive poor who knew that knowledge was power, and that this power was largely denied by the economics of literacy until that time! This press was liberation of minds! The religious leadership that lent 'spiritual support' to the oligarchs in Medieval Europe was exclusively privy to this often secret knowledge. Literacy in Europe finally began rising among the most intelligent poor first at about 10% per decade almost immediately after Gutenberg's more automated press got replicated all over the Western countries. The ideas shared through an increasingly literate populace created a social & intellectual synergy that naturally led to wide expression of dissatisfaction about the status quo. The dogmatic order of the Dark Ages was crumbling under the weight of new knowledge created in the cauldron of sharing and recording among the people at large. Intellectual comradery was born, leading to questions about everything, often haphazard at first; science was the response to apply discipline to acquiring and sharing knowledge in a systematic way. Science empowered literacy to become a rational force that challenged old ideas with new ideas that could be shown to work better or work at all! Give the working folks the power of knowledge, and good things happen. ...like The Enlightenment!
My favorite quote of Marshall McLuhan is, "We are developing more & more diverse means of communicating, less & less significant ideas". Sound a wee bit like Facebook & social media, maybe ???
The McLuhan quote I remember is, "The medium is the message." Regarding FB, twitter and, yes, even RUclips comments, the media and their messages are worth every penny you pay for it!
Fabulous to hear two such likeable intellectuals speaking on our strange existence. Should be compulsory viewing if that’s not contradictory. Thanks and well done.
It's great to see Fry doing something interesting. I realise I've missed him. It's better than his interactions with fans on social media which is essentially a tidal wave of sycophancy met with Fry's planet-sized bashful modesty.
A great interview.I really enjoy the openness of this discussion,which shines a strong light on the brilliant Mr Pinker and his analysis.I applaud the fact that some taboo issues are covered (or should that be uncovered?) aswell .Enlightening indeed. Thanks for the post.
His believes, books and media image make J. Peterson very alt right in my personal European terms. He is probably not extreme right but traditional right here is more business and less morals.
I never needed religion..i was ok from the start...i love! the Love bringd me Love back..its simple! your mother loves you, in a way, that inspire love. First impression is love.
Great episode! I find Stephen Fry's comments to usually be helpful and even insightful. The evolving idea that human beings are not born _blank slates_ but have innate, firmwired, crib sheets that come in new born infants that help the infants organize information without having to intellectually solve the difficult problems involved in epistemology, theory of mind of self and others, all while also coherently organizing the information coming to us from sight, hearing, touch, smell, and taste and creating a model of the world with us in it,... all this is already accepted for language acquisition,... and now researchers are investigating what other crib sheets we are born with. Like so much else in life,... we can do it effortlessly because, our ancestors could do so effortlessly, because if they couldn't do the above cognitive activities efficaciously,... they wouldn't have remained alive long enough so as to beget us. If we have crib sheets for language, might we have them for morality, ethics, and economics? Might different personality archetypes have different crib sheets than others might? NT Rationals keirsey.com/temperament/rational-overview/ seem to value truth over authority while most everyone else value authority over truth. In trying to derive _ought from is_ I have found it helpful to discuss what absolute liberties individuals get to enjoy, while also discussing what unchosen, positive duties everyone has no choice but to comply with or face violent social sanction. The only such duty, that my fellow libertarians seem to recognize is, _if you break it, you must fix it._ Is this enough? Might there be more? But remember, every unchosen, positive duty necessarily grants the state the right, and even the duty, to kill anyone who refuses to comply. The state will likely not start with such lethal force,... but all laws are enforcable only because of the tacit, implied threat of everything eventually escalating into _do as we say or you'll die!_ If this seems overly harsh,... just consider it me applying libertarian drano to the wax that collect in most minds when we contemplate the state. It is not reason, nor eloquence,... only force; and force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. But, except for the anarcho-capitalists,... it would seem we all agree with Hobbes that such a thing as the state must exist. Where humanity has yet to create a set of moral axioms that are self-evident to all, and that require no further proof,... we are left with the state serving as a practical substitute for such. Consider *Socialism and Human Nature* www.cato.org/events/socialism-human-nature which illustrates how deep human pre-history has programmed us to praise the sharing of wealth while either ignoring or being suspicious of those who create new wealth. Keynesianism seems to teach us that spending money is virtuous while savings are suspect. The world today has all the world governments racing each other to see who can create the most debt while depreciating the value of their fiat currencies. See www.usdebtclock.org/ The moral, ethical, and economic intuitions that served our ancestors for probably millions of years just don't scale up in the modern world,... but socialists, and the public that admires them, keep trying. What is evil but live backwards? I may be a cognitive dissonance junkie.
I have to say as a Christian and someone that is not labeled as right or left wing and that disagrees with many points in this debate. I appreciated Pinker's thought process, intelligence and gentle mannered nature that does not come off as arrogant. It's refreshing as my experience with most people of his ilk are extremely filled with hatred, bitterness toward one another. In other words he's a very likable liberal.
A true intellectual. Steven is someone who is above the gross conventions of labeling him anything but an enlightened being. Unlike the nouveau conversatives and neo liberals who all espouse either men and women are the same, or men are smarter than women because the IQ test proves it, along with similar lines of argument for races, Pinker actually bothers to hit on something that actually has meaning. The overlap of traits in the distribution. Once you hear someone like Pinker, suddenly all the Shapiros, Milo's, Murray's can all take a back seat. Science "clever" coupled with the common sense is the only way forward. Steven rocks!
Agreed that they are both formidable intellects and very intellectually honest seekers of truth. One aspect Stephen Fry didn't challenge enough (he touched on it but Pinker either sidestepped it or just forgot to answer) was how Pinker reconciles his optimism about enlightenment outcomes with the environmental impacts this "success" is having. There's a short-termism and myopia inherent in the way that we as a species are bumbling our way forward propelled by scientific discoveries and technological innovations, motivated primarily by markets rather than any overarching plan. So yes, we end up with a massive global population of "better off" people with food in their guts and roofs over their heads, living longer and more expensive and environmentally damaging lives as they consume more energy, emit more pollutants and greenhouse gases, and generate more waste. So as wonderful as it is that we've been able to grow our numbers massively and improve the quality of life for the majority of people, it is foolish to celebrate this without examining the data showing the cost of this achievement in terms of biodiversity loss, physical environment destruction, and the strong probability that we are in the process of triggering a climate cataclysm. I wonder why a great mind like Pinker's is not more focused on this side of the coin.
Anthony Peters The thing with knowledge enlightenment generally, is the need to specialize. In the context of human development, it wasn't so long ago that philosophy, theology and science(as a group comprised of the major 3, biology, chemistry and physics) was seen in its totality. This perspective versus the need to reduce everything to the fine grain, or mechanical and materialistic view of the world in all the three subjects, greatly impacts this generation of intellectuals versus those of the past. If you look at someone like Lovelock, in Gaia theory, he is a good ol' fashioned scientist who was well versed in the holy trinity of science. This is why when he hypothesised that the planet is a "conscious" "living" organism, the community threw their hands up in disgust and labeled him a woo scientist. He was simply very knowledgeable about the interconnectedness of biological systems and their chemical reactions to the environment. These days, you are not qualified to speak on something without a doctorate to backup a simple sentiment. Look at chomsky. He's known as a linguist and his theory of universal grammar and innateness of language, though debated is highly accepted. People however, greatly criticise his political views. Yet his level of investigative integrity and discernment is equally as compelling in both spheres and he makes just as good arguments in politics as he does in linguistics, yet he is relegated to the same position as the common brute who has overstepped his line, politically speaking. Pinker, is not an environmental scientist. His conjecture comes from a psychological perspective and moral evolution in relation to the environment. Those who study environmental degradation issues see things outside of the metaphysical concepts of human mind development, hence in this case, an environmental scientists words would carry a bigger weighting. I still adore Steve though. I'm glad that there are people like him who have become commercial enough for someone like me to understand the complicated issues more readily.
Interesting observation about how things have shifted. It's a bit of a catch-22 really, because there are also situations where we should demand narrow expertise: we really don't want non-scientists and vested interests projecting their misinformed views on climate change for instance. I suppose we do need more polymaths like Lovelock and Chomsky, yes.
K R and you are listening to him without using exercising any cerebral prowess. He did not even remotely say anything close to being leftist. You are a neo conservative who accuses anyone of having an enlightened view as being nouveau leftist without once contemplating that you might be a heavily indoctrinated neo conservative. Look, I watch Shapiro, Douglas Murray, Milo, Hitchens, Harris et al, as well as Chomsky, Martin, Heges and a whole plethora of commentators both left and right. I don't ascribe to any ideology. I look for new thoughts and scientific understandings. I am also a great philosophy lover and know all about sextus empircus's skepticism, Humes induction, Hegelian Dialectics and a whole lot of others. When I listen to a public intellectual debate, unlike you, I actually understand what they are talking about and I understand the origins of their posits. You are clearly one of the obtuse masses, who go by the visceral and when challenged, have nothing to back up your accusations except for briefly listening to the debate but clearly failing to understand it. When you can highlight one part of the discussion which lead you to your conclusion about ME being a leftist then you have grounds to speak. If not, please refrain from acting in a petulant, instinctive manner and save yourself embarrassment. Your comment about letting "them" rape our women, is devoid of any nexus to the discussion. This is a thread you have going on in your head after a binge on Shapiro, milo and Murray. You are too ridiculous to contemplate and hurl sentiments which do not pertain to the video you chose to express this through. Another dullard...
K R once again, you have proved my theory that your belligerence and intelligence is par. Both equally high and abominable. Lockes, Humes, Descartes, Spinoza, Nietsche, Parmenides, Hobbes, Darwin, Derrida, Camus, Wolfe, Mamonides etc, I won't provide an exhaustive list, are all works I've looked into. Tabula Rasa? Are you insane? Do you even understand the theory well enough to debate? I don't believe that based purely on the fact that we are born with 100b neurons in addition with 50tril synapses already put in our brains from birth. Clearly, you don't know who chomsky is as I mentioned him before. His linguistic theory opposes Lockes tabula rasa. Ofc I don't believe fully in Lockes tabula rasa, but there are points in the doctrine which coincides with cognitive neuroscience and psychology that can't be refuted. I'm not a pseudo intellectual unlike yourself. I am genuinely clever. You are rambling on points which are incohesive. You have made grand abductions on my thoughts, without an iota of evidence. You are either very stupid or lack life experience. Everything you claim I believe is totally off the point. I don't believe any of the things you have listed. My loyalty is based on truth, not on any one individual. Like I said, stop worshipping milo, Shapiro and Peterson and for once read a damn book. Read Humes original treatise on human nature, then come back to me. Your comment shows you have never, ever read any of the original works. So instead of pretending to be witty by reading things off reddit, why don't you go to a library, get a smell and reverence for all the great minds which have given rise to what you now believe to be "common sense" and stop projecting your own insecurities onto another person. Let me take a stab You are late 20s-30s. White. Male. Have no girlfriend, little prospects of getting one. You believe that your fellow white women are getting tainted by colored people and you refuse to acknowledge that your male endowment pales in comparison to the black mans sexual prowess and that your cerebral capacity is low compared to the Asian man. You need, to just accept that white males have always ruled through their thirst for dominance and the with their fists. Because society has changed, don't feel livid that your world views are now critised, just accept the fact that things have changed.
I don't find reproduction as shallow. It has given my life tremendous meaning. Giving more humans the ability to be part of the universe experiencing itself. My drive now is to help create a world in which their lives are allowed to be filled with that awe and not tediously wasted as cogs in a wheel or slaves to dogma.
It is fullfilling a selfish need. The need to feel more important then you actually are. And that is fine, we all end up doing whatever gives us that feeling. Doesn't take away the shallowness of it though.
Wow be careful what you wish for is absolutely correct. In speaking of the reduction of inequality, 3 years after this we experienced a pandemic. And that has leveled the playing field in a way. Most of us have experienced loss, financial difficulties, etc. What an interesting concept. Thank you for uploading. This is brilliant! 👌
Chomsky recently said Pinker is wrong (on Democracy Now!) and that the world has deteriorated and is worse off in many ways than it was decades or centuries before. I disagree. I think Pinker has a stronger case even in these times of pandemic.
@@AkshayTomar1987 scientific method, freedom of speech, freedom of enquiry, freedom of religion 100% should be taught from a young age imo. Don't teach kids what to think, teach them how to think.
You may insult me but, regardless of his brilliant mind, and I love to lean back in my chair and just let him talk and talk and talk when he's the talker, Stephen Fry is not made to interview people...he is someone who adds enormous value to any dinner table, how I wished he sat at mine, but in a two-way communication...and this is an interview, a kind of a one-way communication...it is stronger than him, not to put a word in...but I love you, Mr Fry !!-))
See more of Steven Pinker here: ruclips.net/p/PLFIigLLitqDk_Ly6HhbIKcJZr4TooeoSX
I just love how Stephen looks when he is listening to Steven talk. You can tell he's genuinely listening, understanding, picking apart.. etc.
@The Traditionalist Mind who shat in your coffee mate?
"and then you say something like conjunct" I absolutely died laughing at this point. Sooo relatable.
Is that what you saw? I got the sense that he was thinking..."If we were in prison, you'd be my bitch"
Unlike a lot of interviewers, Fry doesn't muddy the discussion by massaging his own ego,very refreshing.
He actually does a little bit, but he keeps it borderline.
@@alientube1984 I think it's his enthusiasm that makes it seem that way.
@@jcee6886 I wouldn't see it in a negative way. His excitement along with varying mood and passion for the subject definitely come across. You can see he has to actively pause to allow the other man to speak. This actually shows how self-aware and controlled he is in an excitable mood - something very rare
Totally agree. And unlike a lot of said interviewers, he would be interesting!
I love Stephen Fry's corteous and respectful way of debate
Stephen certainly has such a way of debating and I couldn’t agree more.
In this particular case I’d say ‘dialogue’ might me a more accurate description of his aim and approach.
I also applaud S. Fry's social graces, but who told U that this was a Debate ? Not a friendly conversation, between like minded scholars ? As is my wish for Palestinians & Hebrews.
@@kevincarrigan635 fat chance
This is fantastic. A conversation where two super intelligent people, who know the difference between Fact and Opinion, teach the masses.
Yet Pinker calls Damore and MIlo "Alit-right" and neither are alt-right.
Intelligent? Yes, yet still fallible
Richard Depaola jr intelligent has never meant perfect. Intelligent people are more likely to know that they are not perfect.
Never said it meant perfect...I pointed out the flaw in the OPs statement. An intelligent person knows when they do not know something and Mr Pinker made his statement as a statement of fact, not a statement of opinion.
@@r13hd22 yes, fallible. Especially when he said "Capitalism is just superior. That 's just a fact." On Joe Rogan. That's...just a fact, Steven? Since when do scientists say things like...well, that's just a fact. That's that. Now what about that scientific method, bruv?
@@tinylittlevampire Umm, yes they actually do say things like "Thats just a fact" when a thing has been proven beyond a doubt when looking at all information...and Capitalism IS superior. Socialism only looks good to those lacking in most information not only about both economies, but also about history.
What I love about these two is every time they speak I find myself compelled to take notes, pause and rewatch, then go and study the concepts, terms, and history I hadn't heard of before. Almost nothing else in life can spark in me the yearning to learn, as much as listening and watching superior minds in discourse. Both these men, as well as the other "horsemen of new atheism" fill me with awe and inspiration.
I'm watching it again. I obviously didn't hear everything. I watch films several times because I want to get all the kernels of wisdom out.
these are useless farty Epstein conmen the are not our worlds genius males you dont hear about those
Couldn't agree more: the rewatching and note-taking
,.
He’s a beautiful soul
Pinker is a gift to us all. So is Fry.
Such a privilege to listen to this conversation between two stellar intellectuals and humanists.
The Enlightenment belongs to the phenomenon that is humanity, and not to atheism as an ideology, we have all benefited from the enlightenment and we can all use it together to create new ways to improve the lives of all, especially in the areas of peace. To suggest that only reason, science, humanism, and progress are the natural benefiters of the enlightenment is to hijack it and make it exclusive to an atheist agenda - i.e. that which has a proven record of utter destruction to humanity!
I don't know the grey haired guy but Stephen Fry ain't much smarter than guy that just gave you fries with that.
@@spadebraithwaite1762 at least you are willing to admit that you are ignorant.
Glad things like this are now so easilly available to anyone!
Stephen is such a great talker but also a sublime listener, he listens so intently so his follow up questions are so acutely phrased
Its great that guys like me, ordinary construction worker types can find a huge amount of interest in things that not long ago would be very difficult if not impossible to hear for anyone but students and other proffessors.. I even understand most of the words.
Alan Roberts Don’t discount yourself: just to like exploring such conversation is admirable and how else to “get to Carnegie Hall” except to practice...and grow. Until annoying mouth smacking drives ME away!
loved listening to Stephen and Steven. Propose a drinking game: drink whenever the word "indeed" is uttered.
I've already had about 14 drinks...
"I am drunk indeed!"
Hiccup!!
"Sozzled, in thought and indeed" XD
I rhink rhR IA a freat ideo\@|!!!
Two fine examples of how the English language should be spoken.
Indeed :-D
Snobbery
“The only people who seem to bother with language in public today bother with it in quite the wrong way. They write letters to broadcasters and newspapers in which they are rude and haughty about other people’s usage, and in which they show off their own superior ‘knowledge’ of how language should be. I hate that, and I particularly hate the fact that so many of these pedants assume that I am on their side.” - Stephen Fry
Bartholomew Tott "snobbery"?
You spelt "standards" incorrectly.
I love these two SOOO hard!
This was a fun surprise to see these two gentleman share a stage, loved both of their enthusiasm!
Pinker and Fry is the intellectual buddy cop movie we never knew we wanted.
But it's the one we needed!
yes
Speak for yourself young lad(y). I've wanted that from the time I could think
There’s no We I’ve made it clear and so did America China Canada India Mexico etc
Meh, there’s much better pairings. Pinker is a passionless dullard. Not even Fry’s great wit could elicit some interesting back and forth from him.
Pinker is just great. Better Angels blew my mind. The defense of modernity is sorely needed and almost never aired in this age, and I didn't even know that until I read the book.
"The Blank Slate" and "How the Mind Works" are well worth reading. If anything, he so soundly and brilliantly crushed the issues he approached that popular science has all seemed pretty boring to me, since then. And some current cultural arguments still seem almost deranged--"Pinker already won this argument in 2002."
isreview.org/issue/86/steven-pinker-alleged-decline-violence
blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/war-scholar-critiques-new-study-of-roots-of-violence/
Pinkers book has been widely criticised by his peers. I'm suprised he hasn't retracted it yet
@@mattgreer86 Evidence for that assertion, then...provide it.
Arguably, the best 1hr 18 minutes I've spent on RUclips for a hell of a long time... I could listen to these Intellectual Leviathans converse many times over.
I propose a new genre of lofi hip hop featuring Stephen Fry discussing random topics called, "LoFry". It's chill and enlightening.
Greatest idea I've ever heard
This is just brilliant. Awesome. So good. Stephen is such a good interviewer AND a good actor AND so well read.
I absolutely love Stephen Fry he does so much for the world. His impact on generations to come should never be understated. With people like stephen who even needs a god?
You just spoke my mind, sir.
Isn't Fry God?
The Enlightenment belongs to the phenomenon that is humanity, and not to atheism as an ideology, we have all benefited from the enlightenment and we can all use it together to create new ways to improve the lives of all, especially in the areas of peace. To suggest that only reason, science, humanism, and progress are the natural benefiters of the enlightenment is to hijack it and make it exclusive to an atheist agenda - i.e. that which has a proven record of utter destruction to humanity!
great discussion. nice to see that Fry wasn't just being a placeholder, but engaged and asked good questions.
What a wonderful event - I wish I'd been there in person! Really enjoyable talk between two very different but extremely eloquent and intelligent people.
I was there - Pinker is very articulate and does not constantly name drop in order to impress.
Unlike daddy Peterson who constantly has to rely on name calling and reminding his alt right fans why they’re wasting so much money on his Patreon account.
Must have been ecstatic!
Isnt name dropping a way of letting the listeners know that the idea you are about to say comes from somebody else? Like how you put a source on a statistical evidence because it wasn't you who conducted the test/survey?
@boson96 can you point to some sources of your claims?
You lucky doer.
Steven looked many times to engage the audience, a lovely quality.
Steven Pinker should be the new Doctor Who
Doctor Who should be the new Steven Pinker.
:p
ha ha yes indeed!
But he isn't a black, French-speaking, trans-gender Lesbian in a wheelchair! I demand that the next Doctor be Intersectional As Fuck.
@Shadow Heart Well, *_I_* was having a laugh. Smile! :0)
Shadow Heart: who hurt you? Nothing more pathetic than a snowflake commenting on an opposite snowflake about commenting not realising the irony of the comment
Splendid pair of Stevens.
Hahahahahahhhaaaaahahahahaa!!
What is the collective noun for "Stev(ph)ens"?
@@elizabethblackwell6242 Stephanymophores: bearers of names derived from the name Stephanus.
The BEST with great thanks. Delightful.
@@elizabethblackwell6242 "crowns"
I love Pinker, love how he stays simple and general in his answers until the interviewer presses for elaboration or the other interviewee ratchets up the debate, and then Pinker opens the gates to myriad examples and explanations. But I do wish, if it's in him, that one time he would confess a love for something totally irrational like dancing to the Doobie Brothers.
The interviewer?
two of the very best human beings in the world :-)
A pleasure.
Love you, Stephen Fry! Thanks for the great interview!
Pinker:
DON’T SAY IT
DON’T SAY IT
DON’T SAY IT
DON’T SAY IT
DON’T SAY IT
Indeed.
I found it a strange too thinking it was a lot more posh than using, say, "exactly." :D
I return often to just enjoy - definitely enlightened by these two gentlemen.
Thank you both.
I hope for another conversation with you both very soon.
two personal heroes of mine. theworld might be a better place if this video had several million more views.
These two are national (world) treasures, two of the most enlightened and inspired thinkers who excel in quality of imagination.
After listening to this, I feel like my brain just ate a chocolate :D
Hahahahaa that's a good one.
Forrest gump
I had a similar thought! I said to myself that watching this was like feeding my brain, but I like your metaphor better :D
After listening to this my brain wonders why it was recorded from a stage mike and not from the desk
These are two of my favourite people.
23:17 Love this: "To treat other people and ultimately other sentient creatures as equivalent in interests to my own." That's why we need to upgrade Humanism to @Sentientism: "evidence, reason and compassion for all sentient beings." A simple worldview, but one with radical, positive implications - for us human animals, for non-human animals and for the planet we all share. Maybe the next edition of Enlightenment Now will be subtitled "The Case for Reason, Science, Sentientism and Progress" :)
Problems:
1. defining sentience. At what point on the spectrum of sentience or the ability to react to external stimuli, do we draw the line. Most plants and fungi could be described as having senses.
2. bacon.
@@emdiar6588 Thanks for your reply!
1) That challenge doesn't undermine the moral salience of sentience. Other terms like "life", "human" and "person" face similar challenges - yet they remain useful. My suggested approach is not to think of Sentience as a strict binary on/off - but as something that likely has fuzzy edges (like "life") - in our understanding of it if not in reality. We can use science to work out, always imperfectly, where that fuzziness is. We can also grade sentience. So far I've seen no evidence that plants/fungi experience suffering or flourishing - but if they did, maybe that experience would be less intense than that of animals? As ever, let's follow the science. And wherever it is and whoever experiences it - surely all suffering matters morally?
2) I get that taste pleasures are important to many people. But are they really important enough to justify the suffering & death involved in satisfying them? Particularly as the alternatives available can give other wonderful taste experiences without causing suffering & death. Even the plant-based bacons are getting really good. Well worth a try if you love the smoky taste. Most find that the taste pleasure of bacon is much more about smoke and salt than it is about the flesh of sentient pigs. Personally, any pleasure I used to take from consuming animal products has now been replaced by a deep ethical disgust at what those products are, how they were made and what that meant for the experiences of the sentient beings involved and their families.
@@Sentientism as to your response to 1) well said. No rebuttal required. As to 2) i say "mmmmmmmmmmm…..bacon. I win.
@@stupidas9466 1) Thank you. 2) Nominative determinism 🙂
if men-women like these men, with such insights & visions would be 'in power' (gouvernements) in the whole world, what a difference society would be...
Let's hope we get there someday... we're still evolving, and barley out of the dark ages, so despite the current political situation, I think there's hope in the long run. I know, call me over optimistic, but still! ✌
@Reggie Cyde Do you remember when Harvard's the Best and the Brightest ran US policy? Disaster. My experience is that academics can be a pretty petty bunch...has nothing to do with brain size and intellectual interests.
Vast majority of people would find this intolerably boring.
But they don't spread hate and tell people what they need to be against.
They would fail misserably in politics.
@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 You shouldn't need to be told to be against treating people like 2nd class humans because of race, sex, etc.
The world's two greatest Stevens!
Only one Steven. The other is a Stephen :)
Sharp, intelligent, insightful and very well read... And Pinker is no slouch as well.
His book 'The Better Angels of our Nature' blew my mind. I highly recommend it.
We need more interesting discussions like this, to recharge our minds.
I MISS CHRISTOPHER
!
kamiel choi agreed.
Christopher is dead? What? Oh my god. Call Mom RIGHT NOW. Wait, how do you know my brother?
Many do...and more importantly, all "should" miss him even more. Yet I have his books close by me...he's not going anywhere.
Hitch xxxx.
so do I , I sorely miss his input in todays debates......
Thank you, on behalf of everyone, for debunking the “good old days”
Stephen Fry and Steven Pinker?
This is a total atheist-gasm! Love it!!!
Would you atheist-gasm at an audience with Stalin and Hitler? Honest question.
@Reggie Cyde thing is atheism is a non theistic religion
@Reggie Cyde God is dead meaning that theres no morality once God is 'killed' according to Nietzsche.
But you're right man is deified, nevertheless it doesn't take away that Atheism is a religion.
I wish there was a Stephen Fry digital overlay that I could put on all my devices. Whenever I don't understand something (or just for fun), I can push a button and Stephen Fry's wonderfully gracious voice will explain what I'm currently looking at or working on.
I'd install that.
I have really enjoyed Steven Pinker's books, but I think my favourite moment of his was when he played electric guitar on the roof of Buckingham Palace. \m/
Lol
I can only describe this talk as a beautiful mesh between science and art.
I want to see Brian May and Pinker trade hair-grooming tips.
and german talkshowhost thomas gottschalk...
And Albert Einstein...
Nathan, I love your comment. Laughing. And they are both scientists too.
Oh they'd get on famously.
... and Simon Rattle.
I know I have been truly entertained when I find myself clapping with the audience.
Bravo Steven Pinker! Thank you for helping to spearhead the course correction of Culture, Politics and Academia. When I realized that a well respected Lefty had been speaking out, I actually felt a noticeable sense of relief from the overwhelming injustice of what has been going on.
I love how excited Stephen is in the video. He knows he's going to be talking to one of the tiny group of people on the planet with a bigger brain than him. It's like the Mensa equivalent of going to see Santa!!
Fry has blind spots in his thinking process. Living a reclusive life of autodidacticism doesn't necessarily mean you're smart about everything.
these are useless farty Epstein conmen the are not our worlds genius males you dont hear about those
@@quantumfineartsandfossils2152 What are you talking about?
@@urbangorilla33 Why waste your breathe and time on it!
i feel like stephen is fan-girling and its so cute
Two of my favorite people, thank you for the upload.
Totally enlightening!!! Thank you for beaming a bright light on a dark world.
Love this perspective!! Hope both left and right be humble enough to take cues from Mr. Pinker's work to continue progress without falling into insensible pseudo sense of moral superiority.
Fry is the ultimate interviewer for intellectual discussions .
He's a beast
No he's not. He barely keeps up with high school physics.
No he isn't. I have to agree with @Cliff Hanley. I love Fry...but his ego runs away with him when he is the interviewer...his basic feelings of being 'less than' are exposed. Sad, since he is such a brilliant man.
What a strange view ! ..I haven't seen an interviewer who interrupts LESS than him.
He is not always 'the authority' on the subject, yet insists on inputting his shining "look what I know" statements....
It's not a big thing. As I've said, I'm a big fan of his and he is a very brilliant man.
There are just too many ways to go wrong than get things right. Good point!
The fact that this video has 500k views while some cat videos have 50M views is just saddening. I feel like I learn something new every time I listen to Stephen Fry or Steven Pinker, especially when they're having a conversation. Amazing.
People would rather die than think
Cat videos don't need any work
You cant defeat cats on youtube
Proves people react more strongly to cute stuff than smart stuff. Of course, one could possess both qualities. My friend's cat is a true intellectual, he comes up with novel ideas all the time.
Basic ideas discussed with extravagant jargon that the masses think is profound.
And? The point isn't to prove their intellect but to make the public think. What do you mean "extravagant jargon"? Are you intimidated by articulate speakers that have actually glanced at a dictionary or read books? Comprehension of a language helps with explanation of ideas. They actually think and consider what they say instead of spewing the first banality that comes to mind.
How is this extravagant jargon?
I think like "Tea & cookies," an interview/chat-up between Pinker & Peterson would be absolutely delightful! These two intellectuals could only enhance one another. Both men are articulately polite, in full mature control of their emotions, and share the joy; the sheer enthusiasm of discovering new ideas; regardless the degree of interest being equally mutual. I have read '12 Rules' & Pinker's 'The Stuff Of Thought' as well.
I'd like to know what is the 'hot-beverage' of their choice!!!
Jordan interviewed Pinker once online. There's a video of that somewhere on his channel.
Steven Pinker had a greater influence on me giving up on religion then any of the four horsemen. I have read the blank slate and better angels. I am looking forward to reading enlightenment now.
It would be interesting to hear more about what arguments you found most challenging, and/or persuasive.
Thanks for the vid :-)
Enlightenment is on the march. However slowly and meandering, it is still worthy identity for us all.
@Reggie Cyde lets hope this doesnt transform into something detrimental to society
@Reggie Cyde friend the news is always like that
Love these two guys! Steven must be manic here as he looks like he's about to burst. If so his performance is even more impressive. Great conversation!
11:58 this is the sexiest pronunciation of "Aufklärung" I have ever heard from an Englishman. Even though his way to say it is a bit cliche: Hard, aggressive and with a very throaty "r". I love it.
Too bad they're both hideously ugly men.
@@sammavacaist I'd bet that it is because they somehow oppose your political ideology that you now have to go into the comments and for no reason whatsoever live out your foolish emotional state of anger because you lack the capability of controlling it yourself.
@@finnradoy1742 Doesn't make them better looking. Its caused Steven great pain throughout his life. He's said as much.
@@sammavacaist It caused him pain that he isn't attractive? I'd like the source on that, and even if so, I don't find Pinker unattractive, and besides all of that, what exactly has that to do with any of the ideas that were discussed or the fact that someone finds the pronounciation of Aufklärung sexy? You're not really contributing to anything here and I wonder where that drive to spread hatred comes from.
@@finnradoy1742 Do you call out men who trash unattractive women this hard?
How is it possible that Steven Pinker and Chris Hedges as non economist say more sensible things about the economy than most economists
Enjoyed this! Correction: Derrida actually defined deconstructionism as moving from what the text means to say to what the text is constrained to mean (i.e. Meaning in language/writing/speaking is constrained but to social layers not just physical reality). Foucault simply added that discourse (e.g. how we discuss gender, mental health and education) often serves the function of propagating power relationships between certain groups (doctors/patients, men/women, adults/children). Postmodernism accepts the facts of reality but simply considers how those facts play out in the social world.
Two substantial minds enlightening us on The Enlightenment, Fry & Pinker tell of the Scientific Revolution. I'd suggest that Gutenberg's printing press was the real major trigger nearly 200 years earlier. Earlier literacy was limited to those who could afford the expensive hand-copied text & books to read, but the poor majority had plenty of its citizens wanting to know what was in those books, and how to respond in writing. Affordable, mass-produced books opened a portal to knowledge for the inquisitive poor who knew that knowledge was power, and that this power was largely denied by the economics of literacy until that time! This press was liberation of minds!
The religious leadership that lent 'spiritual support' to the oligarchs in Medieval Europe was exclusively privy to this often secret knowledge. Literacy in Europe finally began rising among the most intelligent poor first at about 10% per decade almost immediately after Gutenberg's more automated press got replicated all over the Western countries. The ideas shared through an increasingly literate populace created a social & intellectual synergy that naturally led to wide expression of dissatisfaction about the status quo. The dogmatic order of the Dark Ages was crumbling under the weight of new knowledge created in the cauldron of sharing and recording among the people at large. Intellectual comradery was born, leading to questions about everything, often haphazard at first; science was the response to apply discipline to acquiring and sharing knowledge in a systematic way. Science empowered literacy to become a rational force that challenged old ideas with new ideas that could be shown to work better or work at all!
Give the working folks the power of knowledge, and good things happen. ...like The Enlightenment!
OMG Two of my favorites! Thank you!
Pinker is a visiting lecturer at my university and I cant wait to hear him talk :)
My favorite quote of Marshall McLuhan is, "We are developing more & more diverse means of communicating, less & less significant ideas". Sound a wee bit like Facebook & social media, maybe ???
The McLuhan quote I remember is, "The medium is the message."
Regarding FB, twitter and, yes, even RUclips comments, the media and their messages are worth every penny you pay for it!
Fantastic conversation. Great to be a fly on their wall. Would be interesting to have same chat today vs C19 and Russia/Ukraine.
Fabulous to hear two such likeable intellectuals speaking on our strange existence. Should be compulsory viewing if that’s not contradictory. Thanks and well done.
I hope StePHen hosts more things like this.
I would like to see these two talk about the meaning of LOVE.
The meaning of love, or what is love, is baby not hurting me. Not hurting me. No more.
It's great to see Fry doing something interesting. I realise I've missed him. It's better than his interactions with fans on social media which is essentially a tidal wave of sycophancy met with Fry's planet-sized bashful modesty.
Love that they seem to have forgotten the audience. Makes for a wonderful discussion.
A great interview.I really enjoy the openness of this discussion,which shines a strong light on the brilliant Mr Pinker and his analysis.I applaud the fact that some taboo issues are covered (or should that be uncovered?) aswell .Enlightening indeed. Thanks for the post.
His believes, books and media image make J. Peterson very alt right in my personal European terms. He is probably not extreme right but traditional right here is more business and less morals.
I never needed religion..i was ok from the start...i love! the Love bringd me Love back..its simple! your mother loves you, in a way, that inspire love. First impression is love.
Great episode! I find Stephen Fry's comments to usually be helpful and even insightful.
The evolving idea that human beings are not born _blank slates_ but have innate, firmwired, crib sheets that come in new born infants that help the infants organize information without having to intellectually solve the difficult problems involved in epistemology, theory of mind of self and others, all while also coherently organizing the information coming to us from sight, hearing, touch, smell, and taste and creating a model of the world with us in it,... all this is already accepted for language acquisition,... and now researchers are investigating what other crib sheets we are born with. Like so much else in life,... we can do it effortlessly because, our ancestors could do so effortlessly, because if they couldn't do the above cognitive activities efficaciously,... they wouldn't have remained alive long enough so as to beget us.
If we have crib sheets for language, might we have them for morality, ethics, and economics? Might different personality archetypes have different crib sheets than others might? NT Rationals keirsey.com/temperament/rational-overview/ seem to value truth over authority while most everyone else value authority over truth. In trying to derive _ought from is_ I have found it helpful to discuss what absolute liberties individuals get to enjoy, while also discussing what unchosen, positive duties everyone has no choice but to comply with or face violent social sanction. The only such duty, that my fellow libertarians seem to recognize is, _if you break it, you must fix it._ Is this enough? Might there be more? But remember, every unchosen, positive duty necessarily grants the state the right, and even the duty, to kill anyone who refuses to comply. The state will likely not start with such lethal force,... but all laws are enforcable only because of the tacit, implied threat of everything eventually escalating into _do as we say or you'll die!_ If this seems overly harsh,... just consider it me applying libertarian drano to the wax that collect in most minds when we contemplate the state. It is not reason, nor eloquence,... only force; and force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. But, except for the anarcho-capitalists,... it would seem we all agree with Hobbes that such a thing as the state must exist. Where humanity has yet to create a set of moral axioms that are self-evident to all, and that require no further proof,... we are left with the state serving as a practical substitute for such.
Consider *Socialism and Human Nature* www.cato.org/events/socialism-human-nature which illustrates how deep human pre-history has programmed us to praise the sharing of wealth while either ignoring or being suspicious of those who create new wealth. Keynesianism seems to teach us that spending money is virtuous while savings are suspect. The world today has all the world governments racing each other to see who can create the most debt while depreciating the value of their fiat currencies. See www.usdebtclock.org/ The moral, ethical, and economic intuitions that served our ancestors for probably millions of years just don't scale up in the modern world,... but socialists, and the public that admires them, keep trying.
What is evil but live backwards?
I may be a cognitive dissonance junkie.
I have to say as a Christian and someone that is not labeled as right or left wing and that disagrees with many points in this debate. I appreciated Pinker's thought process, intelligence and gentle mannered nature that does not come off as arrogant. It's refreshing as my experience with most people of his ilk are extremely filled with hatred, bitterness toward one another. In other words he's a very likable liberal.
Great minds! Totally enjoined it!
Great conversation. What an excellent way to spend Easter break.thank you.
A true intellectual. Steven is someone who is above the gross conventions of labeling him anything but an enlightened being. Unlike the nouveau conversatives and neo liberals who all espouse either men and women are the same, or men are smarter than women because the IQ test proves it, along with similar lines of argument for races, Pinker actually bothers to hit on something that actually has meaning. The overlap of traits in the distribution.
Once you hear someone like Pinker, suddenly all the Shapiros, Milo's, Murray's can all take a back seat. Science "clever" coupled with the common sense is the only way forward. Steven rocks!
Agreed that they are both formidable intellects and very intellectually honest seekers of truth. One aspect Stephen Fry didn't challenge enough (he touched on it but Pinker either sidestepped it or just forgot to answer) was how Pinker reconciles his optimism about enlightenment outcomes with the environmental impacts this "success" is having. There's a short-termism and myopia inherent in the way that we as a species are bumbling our way forward propelled by scientific discoveries and technological innovations, motivated primarily by markets rather than any overarching plan. So yes, we end up with a massive global population of "better off" people with food in their guts and roofs over their heads, living longer and more expensive and environmentally damaging lives as they consume more energy, emit more pollutants and greenhouse gases, and generate more waste. So as wonderful as it is that we've been able to grow our numbers massively and improve the quality of life for the majority of people, it is foolish to celebrate this without examining the data showing the cost of this achievement in terms of biodiversity loss, physical environment destruction, and the strong probability that we are in the process of triggering a climate cataclysm. I wonder why a great mind like Pinker's is not more focused on this side of the coin.
Anthony Peters The thing with knowledge enlightenment generally, is the need to specialize. In the context of human development, it wasn't so long ago that philosophy, theology and science(as a group comprised of the major 3, biology, chemistry and physics) was seen in its totality. This perspective versus the need to reduce everything to the fine grain, or mechanical and materialistic view of the world in all the three subjects, greatly impacts this generation of intellectuals versus those of the past.
If you look at someone like Lovelock, in Gaia theory, he is a good ol' fashioned scientist who was well versed in the holy trinity of science. This is why when he hypothesised that the planet is a "conscious" "living" organism, the community threw their hands up in disgust and labeled him a woo scientist. He was simply very knowledgeable about the interconnectedness of biological systems and their chemical reactions to the environment.
These days, you are not qualified to speak on something without a doctorate to backup a simple sentiment.
Look at chomsky. He's known as a linguist and his theory of universal grammar and innateness of language, though debated is highly accepted. People however, greatly criticise his political views. Yet his level of investigative integrity and discernment is equally as compelling in both spheres and he makes just as good arguments in politics as he does in linguistics, yet he is relegated to the same position as the common brute who has overstepped his line, politically speaking.
Pinker, is not an environmental scientist. His conjecture comes from a psychological perspective and moral evolution in relation to the environment. Those who study environmental degradation issues see things outside of the metaphysical concepts of human mind development, hence in this case, an environmental scientists words would carry a bigger weighting.
I still adore Steve though. I'm glad that there are people like him who have become commercial enough for someone like me to understand the complicated issues more readily.
Interesting observation about how things have shifted. It's a bit of a catch-22 really, because there are also situations where we should demand narrow expertise: we really don't want non-scientists and vested interests projecting their misinformed views on climate change for instance.
I suppose we do need more polymaths like Lovelock and Chomsky, yes.
K R and you are listening to him without using exercising any cerebral prowess. He did not even remotely say anything close to being leftist.
You are a neo conservative who accuses anyone of having an enlightened view as being nouveau leftist without once contemplating that you might be a heavily indoctrinated neo conservative.
Look, I watch Shapiro, Douglas Murray, Milo, Hitchens, Harris et al, as well as Chomsky, Martin, Heges and a whole plethora of commentators both left and right.
I don't ascribe to any ideology. I look for new thoughts and scientific understandings. I am also a great philosophy lover and know all about sextus empircus's skepticism, Humes induction, Hegelian Dialectics and a whole lot of others. When I listen to a public intellectual debate, unlike you, I actually understand what they are talking about and I understand the origins of their posits. You are clearly one of the obtuse masses, who go by the visceral and when challenged, have nothing to back up your accusations except for briefly listening to the debate but clearly failing to understand it.
When you can highlight one part of the discussion which lead you to your conclusion about ME being a leftist then you have grounds to speak. If not, please refrain from acting in a petulant, instinctive manner and save yourself embarrassment.
Your comment about letting "them" rape our women, is devoid of any nexus to the discussion. This is a thread you have going on in your head after a binge on Shapiro, milo and Murray. You are too ridiculous to contemplate and hurl sentiments which do not pertain to the video you chose to express this through. Another dullard...
K R once again, you have proved my theory that your belligerence and intelligence is par. Both equally high and abominable.
Lockes, Humes, Descartes, Spinoza, Nietsche, Parmenides, Hobbes, Darwin, Derrida, Camus, Wolfe, Mamonides etc, I won't provide an exhaustive list, are all works I've looked into.
Tabula Rasa? Are you insane? Do you even understand the theory well enough to debate? I don't believe that based purely on the fact that we are born with 100b neurons in addition with 50tril synapses already put in our brains from birth. Clearly, you don't know who chomsky is as I mentioned him before. His linguistic theory opposes Lockes tabula rasa.
Ofc I don't believe fully in Lockes tabula rasa, but there are points in the doctrine which coincides with cognitive neuroscience and psychology that can't be refuted.
I'm not a pseudo intellectual unlike yourself. I am genuinely clever.
You are rambling on points which are incohesive. You have made grand abductions on my thoughts, without an iota of evidence.
You are either very stupid or lack life experience.
Everything you claim I believe is totally off the point. I don't believe any of the things you have listed.
My loyalty is based on truth, not on any one individual. Like I said, stop worshipping milo, Shapiro and Peterson and for once read a damn book. Read Humes original treatise on human nature, then come back to me.
Your comment shows you have never, ever read any of the original works. So instead of pretending to be witty by reading things off reddit, why don't you go to a library, get a smell and reverence for all the great minds which have given rise to what you now believe to be "common sense" and stop projecting your own insecurities onto another person.
Let me take a stab
You are late 20s-30s. White. Male. Have no girlfriend, little prospects of getting one. You believe that your fellow white women are getting tainted by colored people and you refuse to acknowledge that your male endowment pales in comparison to the black mans sexual prowess and that your cerebral capacity is low compared to the Asian man.
You need, to just accept that white males have always ruled through their thirst for dominance and the with their fists. Because society has changed, don't feel livid that your world views are now critised, just accept the fact that things have changed.
Love Professor Steven Pinker and Stephen Fry
Little treat!!
This is my favorite conversation ever.
I don't find reproduction as shallow. It has given my life tremendous meaning. Giving more humans the ability to be part of the universe experiencing itself. My drive now is to help create a world in which their lives are allowed to be filled with that awe and not tediously wasted as cogs in a wheel or slaves to dogma.
This is so well said
Nice but futile
It is fullfilling a selfish need. The need to feel more important then you actually are.
And that is fine, we all end up doing whatever gives us that feeling. Doesn't take away the shallowness of it though.
This is what the world needs more of.
Both of these guys are fantastic. Here's a fun drinking game while watching: take a shot every time Pinker says "indeed".
Prateek Lala i don't need a 'trigger' to have a shot!
Wow be careful what you wish for is absolutely correct. In speaking of the reduction of inequality, 3 years after this we experienced a pandemic. And that has leveled the playing field in a way. Most of us have experienced loss, financial difficulties, etc. What an interesting concept. Thank you for uploading. This is brilliant! 👌
Chomsky recently said Pinker is wrong (on Democracy Now!) and that the world has deteriorated and is worse off in many ways than it was decades or centuries before. I disagree. I think Pinker has a stronger case even in these times of pandemic.
If our species acted in its own interest we would ask/plead with people like Pinker to be the chairs of the committees running our countries.
That was excellent.
Wow i just realized that it was Stephen Fry's voice on the Harry Potter audio books I listened to when I was young. Life changer
Maybe if principles of the enlightenment were taught beginning at an early age things might have turned out differently.
What principles?
@@AkshayTomar1987 scientific method, freedom of speech, freedom of enquiry, freedom of religion
100% should be taught from a young age imo. Don't teach kids what to think, teach them how to think.
You may insult me but, regardless of his brilliant mind, and I love to lean back in my chair and just let him talk and talk and talk when he's the talker, Stephen Fry is not made to interview people...he is someone who adds enormous value to any dinner table, how I wished he sat at mine, but in a two-way communication...and this is an interview, a kind of a one-way communication...it is stronger than him, not to put a word in...but I love you, Mr Fry !!-))
"When he thinks I'm coming--"
Fry: 😊
"--but I'm not."
Fry: 😥
I can really personally relate to the mindset of these two. My kind of people.
Cracked my screen smashing the Like button!
I loved this talk. I wish more people were interested in this stuff.