The Truth About the New A350
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- Опубликовано: 3 май 2024
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Chapters:
Intro - 0:00
The New A350 - 2:35
Trying 10 Abreast - 3:55
The A350 Master Plan - 5:06
But What About Mainliners? - 7:16
The Benefit of Staying 9-Abreast - 8:35
Additional Anecdotes - 9:51
A Wholistic Approach to Comfort - 11:20
Continued Innovation - 12:14
Outro - 13:34
________________________________________________________________________
The 2022 Farnborough Airshow was supposed to be a moment of triumph for the aviation world. The show was being held for the first time since COVID, and it brought some big orders and spectacular flying displays. But despite the fanfare, many Airbus loyalists walked away with a sour taste in their mouth. During the show, it was announced that the A350 was being updated, and not in a good way. Specifically, its cabin’s been redesigned to accommodate 10 economy seats per row - up from the 9-abreast layout that’s common today.
In a world where Airlines continue to pack more and more seats on planes, the A350 has been salvation. It’s remarkably roomy, even in coach. But now, Airbus appears to be caving to the high-density trend & sacrificing comfort in the process. However, I’m here to tell you that reports of the A350’s demise have been overblown. In reality, this change won’t impact comfort in the ways you think. And In fact, a 10 abreast A350 could be a really good thing for passengers. Let me explain…
#airbus #a350 #aviation 
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It sure feels different when you're alone. You need the fully experience when you're sandwiched between others. I don't think you will be casually resting your elbows and cross your legs.
I noticed him and Alexis were talking in what looked like a economy plus cabin
No, just no. Reminds me of Southwest torture, shoulder to shoulder, fighting for the armrest and he was on the bulkhead. Eexcept it's for 12hrs, not just Southwest 30min to Dallas.
I think he was talking more about the leg room and room to get up and move around.
Some real fatties
No
When a marketing expert says "don't worry" it means this will happen soon.
It also doesn't mean it's cheaper for you, it's cheaper for the airline.
Just like 777, how many 9 abreast seating left?😂
@@walshmabob1834 You are correct. They are already sold out at 9 abreast, why lower the price? Just to lose money? Not happening!
@@akbolly6415 Delta, Turkish, United on its -200s, Singapore and JAL are the only ones left I think. Even ANA went high density.
@@akbolly6415 10 abreast 777 on aal is absolute hell, its probably the worse seats out there
Having experienced sitting in a 9 abreast United 787 cabin as a 6’4“ guy in between two others on a 9 hour trip, I always make sure to book onto Delta‘s A330 neo‘s with 8 abreast. It’s a huge difference despite it being basically an older generation airframe. Tough nothing beats their A220‘s when flying coach.
Need to fly the A330neo still, it looks realllly nice
Don’t forget JAL’s 787s on flights to Asia, 2+4+2 (33” pitch, 19” width) in standard economy!
@@jatterhog That seat is way too thin and flimsy... It only gives better width... that's it.
Comparing an 8-ab aircraft vs 9-ab Aircraft does not make sense. Why not simply compare the 787 vs A350!?...
787 is easily the most pleasant flying experience of any plane imo
Coby: Most airlines aren't likely to go to 10 abreast on their A350's.
Also Coby: Every airline has already gone to 9/10 abreast on their 787/777.
He explained why though...the A350 is too narrow to make it widespread but the 777 and 787 are just wide enough. Maybe watch the whole video before commenting
@@jacobwasserman9505 Well then why are the Boeings describes as cramped if they are wider? And why soften the impact of 10 abreast in the A350 if it is narrower and therefore more cramped?
You can't have things both ways.
@@davemiller6055 Still, the whole experience of every Airbus I have flown trumps the Boeings I've flown. Funny that the Boeing I like best is the 717, for seat width.
Any airline can do anything they want, really. While I love Airbus, one of the worst flights ever was on a Northwest A320 from MHT to DTW. They crammes the rows in there and my knees were embedded in the seatback without anyone reclining.
@@davemiller6055 currently. A350s are not 10 Abreast. 9 abreast A350 is slightly wider and more comfortable than 9 abreast 787. Comparing 777 and a350 is silly, as they are too different of aircraft.
@@ericwalker2434 comparing the 787 and A350 is just as silly. They’re in different segments of the widebody market, with the A350-900 being larger than the 787-8 and 787-9 and the A350-1000 similar to the 777-8. So its easy to see that the 3 planes mentioned are not direct competitors.
If I know in advance that the plane has 10 abreast I’ll pass. Being a slightly bigger guy I want room to relax my arms at my side instead of squeezing my shoulders together. I once ended up on a 3 hour flight where three of us bigger guys were squeezed together behind the bulkhead. That was the most uncomfortable flight in my life.
I agree, Colby isn’t a big shouldered guy and his shoulders still almost go into the seats next to him.
100% agree and he doesn’t look like he is tall either.
I won’t avoid 10-abreast like the plague, but I’d still chose 9-abreast if it was an option. I’d rather see airlines improve their product offering, like higher quality pillows, blankets and entertainment headphones for long haul flights. Give me all that and I think I’ll forget about 10-abreast pretty quickly.
@@rwburt9701 I agree that if you have wider shoulder (or you're wider in any other way) it can be cramped but economy will most likely be cramped for you anyway as 0.2 in of a difference won't change much. On the 9 abreast version on this new variant you'll have much wider 18.7 in seats vs 17.6 on a 9 abreast 787.
As for tall people, I doubt any economy seat will suffice so you either suffer, add money for an emergency exit/first seat or get economy plus (or any other name the airline called it). i agree with Coby that most regular carriers will prefer to leave it with 9 abreast. As for low cost, this seating scheme appears to be a bit better than what they offer today.
Airlines can offer both 9 and ten abreast seating per flight and travellers can choose which they prefer.
It was interesting to see that even when you collected your arms at 4:38, you were still over hanging both arm rests. How would that work when you have neighbours?
and he isnt even wide
And at 7:59, both of his shoulders are overlapping into the adjacent seat areas. This is NOT good for us 6ft folks (or anybody sitting between us).
I feel ya (6'3)
Yuuuuuup! 6'4 here.
@Bruce Trust me guys as a 5'4" guy I wouldn't even try this 😂. I refuse to fly economy bc of this and they can shove my ass in the overhead bin
Same happened with the Boeing 777. When that aircraft was introduced it had 3-3-3 seating & was a great experience. United had them in that configuration for flights to and from Britain and Europe. Now the B777-300 ER has 3-4-3 seating and it's a lot worse. I think some airlines are still using 3-3-3 though.
Colby, who looks like he’s not that tall, should fly to Airbus in a 10-abreast A350 in a packed coach for 8-9 hours instead of a 1-2-1 business class and THEN tell us how roomy it is. And what, he is 5’9”? 10-abreast is one thing, the 30 inch pitch in an all “slimline” seat config is torture for anything over two hours.
Isn't the purpose of "slimeline" seats that you make the seats thinner to increase legroom without having to increase the seat pitch, so 30 inch with "slimline" seats offers about the same legroom as 32 inch with regular seats?
I agree it looks great on a display. But I don't believe it would be fun stuck in a middle seat for a long haul flight
I thought the same thing. Sit between two fat guys for ten hours, then tell us how comfortable it is. I'm about to get on a flight that lasts over ten hours, unfortunately on a Boeing jet. I'm sure I'll need a couple of drinks.
@@kenmore01 so what, in a 9-abreast a350 , you would be more comfortable, if sat in the same seat between two fat guys for ten hours? I think you'd feel the same ...
@@kenmore01 that's why they invented alcohol, Valium and pain killers.
Mix them all up and you might just get a couple of hours sleep 🤣
I've done 9, 12 hour flight in economy
Over the years and I'm F**ked at the end of it each time...
I sat in a middle seat on a 10-abreast 777 from SFO to LHR and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. The cost difference between economy and economy-plus was about 40% on that flight. 40% more for maybe 5 to 8% more room. IMO the airlines see no floor for their passengers' misery if the passengers want cheap tickets.
Out of curosity how tall are you? I sat in the middle seat on China Airline's 777 with the 3-4-3 config and I thought it was manageable
@@ThatAverageMTBer 5'10 but that wasn't the issue. The connecting flight was late and there was no room in the overhead for my backpack so it had to go under the seat in front of me and there was zero room to extend my legs. You are correct, with nothing under the seat in front there would have been "manageable" legroom.
@@mckeekev so your issues have nothing to do with the plane layout then, so why comment?
@@spiderbootsy well its kinda does have to do with people being packed like sardines... one could argue more passengers equals more hand luggage equals lugagge going under seat and denying leg room so yh...
@ihatekendo however a350 is wider and more spacious so I kinda get your point too
Japan AIrlines' 787s are 8-abreast and much nicer than other 787s. Never have to cross over 2 people to go to bathroom. Private row when you have only two people. It's the best way to fly across the Pacific in economy class.
Ya Japan's 787's are at the top of my "to fly" list. They looks incredible
The 777 10 seat configuration is the most uncomfortable setting Ive ever been on. At the time I was short and skinny, at 5ft10 60ish kg. Had horrible cramps and pains all around with a lack of freedom of movement. So I had to walk up and down the cabin and just stand near the toilets to not feel claustrophobic. Only on the return flight when I had a free seat next to me, could I sleep for at least half of the flight.
I believe there should be customer protection rules to let you know if you are buying into a high dens or low density seating arrangement. If you don't fly all the time, must likely you won't know.
Yes, they could require the width of the seats to be stated. And the legroom, which is more important for many people.
You can book seats which when buying tickets and airlines will show their seat maps.
Seatguru …. Don’t be lazy , do your homework
@@syedputra5955 the seat map doesn't show the width or pitch of seats though.
Yes. Thats why use google flight to book flight. At least it shows the legroom. *Btw, don't book from any 3rd party, always book from the airline itself despite the price differences.
There another component you forgot: This gives Delta the opportunity to differentiate their 5 cabin classes!
Currently, there isn't much difference between Basic Economy, Main Cabin, and Comfort+.
In the future, Delta's A350 Basic Economy could have 10 seats per row...
But how many of that cabin ends up being 10 abreast and how much 9? Is it like premium economy where there are only a couple rows of 9 abreast and the rest 10?
Basic economy and economy always have the same seats, just less passenger privileges such as bags or seat choice or cancellations.
@@YHDiamond "Always?" Just because airlines had two cabin classes in the 1980s, doesn't mean that this is always the same...
Today, there is clearly a market for at least 5 different cabin classes: First class, business, premium economy, economy, and low-cost economy. Be it within the same airplane, or at different airlines.
As stated: for Delta, a new Basic Economy class with 10 seats per row, would be the cheapest new cabin introduction in Delta's history - with very low risks.
I flew an A350 XWB on Lufthansa from Boston to Germany, pretty sure it was 10 abreast. Horrible. I now go through the aircraft cabin details when I book long flights. Last time I checked, Lufthansa now offers the former eco class (8 abreast) as premium eco closer to the front of the aircraft at ridiculous prices. I haven’t flown Lufthansa since that last horrible experience. People will get screwed once but will be vigilant next. These seats are just unbearable for 8 hours. I’m not even a big guy. I can’t imagine how a 6ft+ person even fits.
@@YHDiamond Basic economy has much more legroom and in some airlines typically on long routes different seats.
Only a few years ago around mid-2010s, Eva replaced 747 with 777 on their their SFO-TPE route. I was eager to fly the 777 back to Taiwan as they had 9 abreast seats in the economy. Well, that was my impression from the first United 777s and Seatguru. As soon as I stepped into the cabin, I said, oh boy, the layout was 3-4-3. Coby, I can tell you that you don't want to seat in the 17 inch-wide economy with a stranger next to you for 12 hours, regardless window or aisle. Around the same time, China Airlines also pulled 747 and replaced with 777 as well. That left me with no choice but to pay extra for the premium eco. Life is too short to be tortured for 12 hrs * 2 just to save a few hundred bucks.
I recently flew that route with EVA. I too upped to premium economy. Unfortunately the high density 777s also got rid of the leg rests in PE. What sucks is the LAX-TPE is still the 3-3-3 configuration in economy and sometimes have the better PE seats.
@@pcmacintyre Still probably better than the 16in wide seats that the PRC carriers all use.
For clarification, Airbus *did not* pay me to make this video. In fact, I spent several thousand of my own dollars to make this trip possible. The opinions contained within are mine and mine alone (though Airbus did cover my flight out). Also I'm 5'10".
Despite the typical hate comments, this is a wonderful high quality video, and the hate is not deserved, it's only people panicking about a minor change. It's still economy, its still going to suck.
thanks for clarifying - despite some of the comments I thought this was pretty fair and balanced
@@notbillnye8536 Absolutly
Thanks for the disclosure Coby. Your videos are top notch and Airbus covering your flights doesn’t discount any of that. It’s just good practice IMO.
@@rosstheboss8633 it’s not about “hate”. It’s about transparency.
I’d not be happy with cramped up packing in of passengers in that… it’s already close quarters.
I do have to agree on your comments on the A220. I took a round trip this week on a Delta A220-100 and I have to say it was actually comfortable back in the cheap seats. I had enough room and the seat pitch was livable. I think Airbus has a winner there, as these are way, way better than a regional jet that Delta is known to use on cross country flights.
I’ll seek out flights that use this aircraft more when I begin doing more travel. 😊
I wonder if 10 Abreast will become most common in Asia. The average height of people in a bunch of southeast Asian countries is shorter than people in the west, and so airlines like Cebu Pacific and AirAsia use 9-Abreast A330NEOs. I guess it doesn't matter as much if you're not as big of a person. I could see the same happening w the 10sabreast A350
interesting
Interesting take. I could see this being a hit in that region
Last year I flew on an A350 XWB operated by Lufthansa from Boston to Germany, pretty sure it was 10 abreast. Germans are not known to be on the smaller end of human sizes. It was the most unpleasant flight and I did not look forward to the return flight, which ended up being the same. I’m not even a big guy. I do not know how a 6ft+ person would even fit. Last time I checked, Lufthansa now offers the former eco class (8 abreast) as premium eco at ridiculous prices. I have not flown Lufthansa since. I now go through the aircraft details when I book long flights. Air France and KLM still have some 8 abreast economy. I don’t mind a couple hundred bucks more for that, but certainly not double or triple the price like Lufthansa tries. My guess is people will get screwed once, but will be vigilant next. These seats are just plain unbearable for 8 hours!
You are right. I am Southeast Asian and I have no problem with my seat and my leg room. It's really comfortable. I am 1.75m. I still have free space in my seat lol. My friends, who are westerners, have to deal with the uncomfortable experience almost all the time in either bus or plane.
I bet Cebu Pacific and Air Asia X will order them. Keep in mind the A330 and the A350 families have the same type rating so they wouldn't have to re-train pilots.
What makes a plane a good experience or not comes down, most often, to whether the seat provides enough width and legroom. I am still waiting for regulations that require a minimum seat width and pitch. Would love to see them set at 20" width and 35" pitch.
That’s premium economy levels of figures man…. You can either have comfort or affordability. I often hear people moan about expensive flights and then when they have a reasonably priced, but slightly reduced comfort, they complain again. You can’t have everything, nor win at everything!
It's all economics. They won't do that if it means putting many of these ULC out of business and severely affecting most other legacy airlines. Today's culture is most people want cheap tickets. And everyone flies these days, not just a portion of the population. There will never be regulation like that with the current economics of flight.
True - I personally think legroom's more important. Don't think they're going 20" and 35", but the extra length the cabin adds could afford extra room. Plus the maximum amount of seats theyre allowed the add is 30 because of evacuation procedures, so airlines couldn't make like 30" of pitch by adding a ton of extra rows
Forget about such numbers.
As one pointed out those figures can be found in premium economy class in many airlines. You can do some quick math (35"/29-32")*(20"/17") ~ 1.3-1.4, you'd have tickets 30-40% more expensive.
I was in a 777-200 just yesterday on a 9 hour flight and that plane had a 9 abreast seating layout and was full to the brim. And as a larger guy, I struggled to sit comfortably in the middle between the window and aisle seat. Personally, packing more passengers is fine on a short flight within Europe where I live, in fact the Ryanair flight I took to Budapest was 3 hours and was not unreasonable. But tripling that time really pushed my limits of staying comfortably in my seat.
I regularly fly around 3 hrs short haul for my travel in Europe and for me economy is fine and I like how it's upgraded as the flight is longer. Only thing I'd really like is to be in the a220 more since its more comfortable than the a320 and 737
9 abreast is the comfy version of the 777, 10 abreast is the norm on 777s these days. The only generally good econ seats on 777s are Singapore and JAL. Delta's are the best 777 seats of a US carrier, United's -200s still run 9 abreast but those cabins are pretty dated and their -300s are all 10 abreast.
I can live with the seats being narrow and losing space laterally, but being 6’4 I need all the leg space I can get, my opinion lives and dies by this
As a slim guy, who has regretfully flown long haul on A330 in 9 abreast, I assure you, there are also limits to lateral space.
Fact: for my next long distance journey I had the choice between 4 options. 2 had 10 abreast in B-777. I declined. My choice was not the cheapest. And total travel time is longer in the go flight. But 9 abreast and 34” seat pitch. Guess you know now immediately which airline I choose…
JAL 777?
I'm flying Frankfurt to Japan in a 787 and I'm so glad I'm doing it with Japan Airlines sitting 8 abreast, I feel I just dodged a bullet unknowingly
It's not 100% the fact that it's uncomfortable (but i still think it looks tight), it's that 9 years ago Airbus bragged about having 18" wide seats on all their planes!
And they still do … even wider at 18.5 “ - in a 9 abreast configuration 😊
@@remi_gio Yeah, that is a positive! (and i guess JAL would be delighted!) but airlines love profit and we might (hopefully not) see big airlines squeeze in even more passengers.
@@Xamimus 👍😊
18" is the assumed width per person for stadium bench seating. What a world we live in where that's considered bragworthy for planes.
@@princekamoro3869 Yeah exactly! The entire industry is moving to price over everything else (admittedly we kind of caused it) and now 17" seating is kind of everywhere!
Try going too an air museum and look at a 1960's plane layout. The seats were not great - but the space was incredible. More leg room than business class today(!!). Also, almost no overhead locker space, but back then people did not bring their closets with them on board. (Yes; tickets were also relatively much more expensive back then, maybe we sometimes get what we pay for.)
It looks like a compromise only budget airlines would settle for. Well, as you said with he rise of long haul budget carriers, it's no mystery that leisure traveller's would sacrifice a bit for a nice cheap vacation. Smaller seating sure could be a problem for some people, but its not possible to have it all. That was really amazing work done for that video. Really impressive!
Colby... thanks for the research here. I would have liked to see you test this while sitting between 2 other passengers instead of having the entire row to yourself. I need to do my homework to see if I can tell which configuration is being offered when I purchase a trip. Thanks for the info.
This wasn't research, this was a Airbus commercial in video form. Just repeating all their marketing claims with little pushback or verification. Very disappointing video from this channel
Seems awfully similar to the basic economy shinanigan that started with the budget airlines and has now spread to every airline in the US.
In the beginning it was meant to be a super cheap way to fly, now it basically became a way for airlines to squeeze an extra $30-$60 out of you if you want even the most basic amenity like a carry on or advance seat selection.
I see this happening with seat widths and comfort as well. 😒
The issue is we race to the bottom (price and comfort) because there's no way of knowing what we are buying. We search for fare and schedule, now we need to research plane config (ver 1 or 2?).
Ok, what about overhead storage space? More passegers, more bags and coats. Only one quick mention in the video.
Well, the A350 rarely fills its bins already. The only A350 flight I took was completely full and there was plenty of overhead space available
Admittedly, I haven’t flown on an A350 in a while. However, on the flights I’ve been on over the past year or so (A380, 777, A330, A320) there’s always been a mad dash to the over head compartments. Part of that is due to the fact that it’s winter and everyone has coats that need to be stored, but the fact that most legacy airlines now also charge for checked bags doesn’t help.
Think the other point is distance.
Qantas in particular will be fitting out it's future 350-1000 in a low dense configuration to maximise range in order to fly SYD/MEL-JFK/LHR.
So by throwing in more seats you will lose flexibility at the far end of range. That's important for airlines as they consider their network.
Ya, I would be shocked if Qantas did 10 abreast for Project Sunrise. They may even do 8 abreast like Singapore
Yes they have also stated they are giving an extra inch pitch because of the ULH nature.
With more passengers comes more luggage as well, so to achieve that massive range whilst carrying extra fuel, passengers, their luggage and a cargo complement, they will definitely need to reduce and optimize passenger count and instead have more premium (and higher cost) seats.
I flew in economy from Toronto to India with a stop in Paris.
Toronto to Paris = a350-900
Paris to India = b787-9
I found the 787 more comfortable and more spacious. This was with Air France btw
You better believe the airplane type is THE most important for me, leaving for SFO from YUL, had my choice of flying 737 or A220 (Air Canada) choice was easy, a bit more expansive on the A220 but worth it(confort, quietness)
Totally agree. I'll choose an EMB170/190, A220, B767, A330 if price difference isn't that much
Expensive*
I absolutely love the looks of the a350 cockpit it looks sooooo nice and recognisable😅
yeah but you cant travel in there! lol
@@rcallumto5627 damn but doesn’t really matter that much because I wanna be a pilot on the 777
@@Donuts_random_stuff the 777 is kinda already becoming outdated…
@@ryan_n05 tell that to Bulgarians who fly Antonov an2’s to spray there fields it’s really cool because you are mostly allowed to walk over the runway as long as you keep a safe distance when the plane lands or takes of
Do you mean cabin or actually the cockpit? I don't pay attention to a cockpit being more recognizable or less. I am a passenger and not a pilot.
I have flown on both 787s and 350s. Those extra 5 inches width on 350 over 787 did not make any difference when it is 3-3-3 across on either aircraft. Now 350 gets extra 4 inches through cabin walls sculpting (something Boeing has also done on upcoming 777X to the same extent) and they crammed in an extra seat to make it 3-4-3 (from 18/18.7? inches to 17 inches seats). Almost every new 350 (exception Singapore Air?) will go for this 10 across option. Remember how almost all newly built 777-300ER ended up 10 across. I have flown on such an aircraft on United long distance and you are really waiting for the flight to reach the destination as fast as possible. If we are going to travel 10 across in the future then can't wait for even wider 777X to start flying now that the 380s are retiring. Miss those 2-3-2 across 767s for long distance flying.
Absolutly
Boeing already offers the 787 with 8-abreast and the 777 with 9-abreast. But market preferred 9-abreast and 10-abreast more comfortable than 10-abreast of A350 cabin. Boeing owns the market and the 787 outsells the A350. Also the 787 and 777 cabin have a more acceptable seating comfort than the A350 with 10 abreast ...
Coby, you should have sat in a 9 abreast and 10 abreast, and measure both with a measuring tape. Those 2+/- ish inches matters a ton on flights over 6 hours. I know its stated on your video buy a measuring tape would do wonders. The 10 abreast looks uncomfortable if you have to keep your arms to yourself the whole trip, while a wider seat, you can at least relax and open up your arms a bit. Those arm rests look very narrow on the 10 abreast, at 4:47 your arms are on both armrests, and in a flight u might have to fight to get 1 armrest. If your fatter or wore a jacket, its a problem.
At the beginning of the video, it's already clear that only one person can use the armrest. The adjacent person will definitely not get an armrest or two.
Colby had definitely let the free trip get to his head.
The internet jumping to conclusions? Never?!
Man those dimmable windows are waaay better than the 787...but I personally dislike dimmable windows because the crew almost always locks them in the dark position after reaching cruise altitude
I also feel that the a350 we can fly in for the next 5 years or so will have 9 abreast seating...but as the airframe gets older and less fuel efficient relative to competitors, airlines might have no choice but to switch to 10 abreast.
Thank God for lockable windows, now we can all actually sleep instead of one loser ten rows ahead with an open shade illuminating the whole cabin.
@@Minecraftmike5089
my thoughts exactly. so annoying.
It's been over a decade since the 787 introduced its dimmable windows.
Of course dimmable windows designed in the 2020s should be better than those designed in the early 2000s
I flew an Etihads 777 today and 10 seats in a arrow were such a catastrophe, I’ll never fly a 777 with 10 seats again.
I’m not fat nor extremely large and still hadn’t massiv difficulty’s to use cutlery for dinner with 4 grown adults in a row. It was incredible narrow
Regarding to your „test“ at the mock-up: you’ll actually won’t notice the difference as long as you don’t have an adult sitting to your left and right.
About airlines choosing to maintain a 9-abreast A350, the same argument was believable for the 777 family from 1995-2008. This means that full service Airlines will keep 9-abreast for the time beeing, but things may change fast forward to 2028.
Just look at yourself in that seat. Your arms intrude into the 'arm area' of the adjoining seats.
If the a350 supposed to compete with the 777. It makes sense for them to do 10 across since thats what the 777 does. But to think the 350 will be as popular as the 777 is a tall order we will see. Once the 777x comes out the 350 is going to have sale issues.
Lol how? 💀👀👀😹 Cause that is devoid of logic, it can carry as much as the 777x while burning less and flying further, plus the most expensive A350-1000 is less than the cheapest 777-8 so again what logic did you base your opinion on?😂
It’s not just about passengers for Airlines. Cargo is a very big revenue stream for them, even on passenger flights.
Actually funnily enough quite the opposite happened, the a350 has made a tremendous hit in 777x orders as for now
The 777X won't affect a350 sales that much. The a350 will continue to sell pretty well.
The 777X thou will be popular with airlines seeking larger capacity than the a350, and will be a success in its own right too
@@mwat22 I don't think we will have a 777-8P if most customers are satisfied with 779
Air France already have it. I saw it on the Paris - Bogota flight this year. I didn't personally experience it but people looked like chickens. Another implication is the corridor space, and it was horrible too.
Not great.
Another thing. I haven't seen much reduction in the flight price. Actually it's gone up if anything.
So the "choice" :pay the same or slightly more for a crappier seat or pay way more for premium / business.
Noise in a cabin today with ANC headphones pretty much being ubiquitous, is a funny argument too 😂
I’m sure it has been mentioned by others here, but going to 10-abreast is not only about the individual seat experience. All those extra passengers will need overhead bin space; will need to use the lavatory; not to mention slower delivery of meals with the extra people on board. I did not hear anything mentioned about how Airbus and airlines will address those factors in 10-abreast A350s.
One thing you left out which is the main reason I don’t like 10 abreast is because of how long the wait can be for the bathroom. Not to mention that it takes way longer to board/un board the plane. Was on a 9 abreast 777 and it was Very roomy and comfortable. I was on the exact same plane coming back except it was 10 abreast and had a lot of dealing with crowding. 10 abreast is not good
They need to bring back 747. 10 abreast is totally fine on the Queen.
This is one of the benefits of extending the length of the cabin - adding the extra 35 inches will create more space for the galley/lavs. Airlines can't use that full 35 extra inches for seats because of how the plane's certified, so they'll use it for that instead
Agreed 100%!!! Beat flight of my life was on a 747-400 (Lufthansa) from Frankfurt to Orlando. My dad built engines for the 747. Beautiful plane!
I'm sorry but "these seats fit me fine" coming from one of snow white's seven homies tells me nothing
@cobyexplanes Thank you for taking this up full time and giving us an insight into the inner workings of airplane interior selection.
I follow which aircraft I fly in closely and still have never associated uncomfortable seats with a particular airline unless my knees dont fit.
Point being if the passenger fits decently in width and legroom he doesn't quite care about the spaciousness. Other factors like entertainment and food affect the experience much more. What do you think?
12:50 if these windows are able to be controlled by the individual passengers its a good thing. But I could not imagine how infruriating it would be to pay 500€s or more for a flight and then be denied a look outside if the airpline crew thinks its a good time to dim the windows dark...
This was great glad you got to talk to Airbus but the video still felt like a normal video
To be honest, I don't like any widebodies with 3-3-3 or 3-4-3 seating. For any long-haul trip, I'd book a window seat anyway, and would most likely be traveling with ONE other person. So my favorites are the A330 or 767, with 2-4-2 or 2-3-2 seating respectively. No worries about having to wake up a third person, when we want to go to the bathroom or just stretch our legs. I know, the 767 and A330 are old plane designs now and I DO know that some A330s are getting 3-3-3 seating these days... I'm staying well clear of those. I'll fly in an A350, 787 or 777 if the price is right, yes. But I wish both manufacturers will come out with a smaller long-haul model with 2-4-2 seating. Boeing's stillborn new midsize plane was rumored to be 2-3-2, so there's still hope.
the fact is, most airlines would not lower their fare even is they fit 10 seats abreast, they just set the price based on destination, season and timing of the flight
10 Abreast A350- No way. I had a15 Hrs last Thursday DOH-BOS on an A350. Great plane - don't ruin it.
First, dont kid yourself Cathay pacific isn't 1/1000th the airline it once was and hasn't been for over a decade...
Second, how does this give us consumers more choice?
Say you're based in HKG ... You're stuck with the one airline currently flying that route on a 9ab a350 on daily frequency. Yay. Now CX cuts frequency and goes 10ab. And said airline blesses us with a fare increase on the route.
But, Coby explanes I should be grateful for the choice ...
I am a big fan of the A350. But I also think, like you said, premium airlines won’t make a 10 abrest. But I guess will see in the future
It’s frustrating to see the manufactures saying that more seats on a plane will lower the ticket prices …. When airlines never do.
I just flew the KLM 787 in economy for 13 hours and it was very uncomfortable.
Been flying 1st/Business lately. I'm a little too tall for economy. I could deal with it for 3 hours but anything longer I always upgrade.
If you like a 10-abreast A350 so much you’ll love even more the Boeing 777, which always has a cabin wider by at least a foot (30cm) than any A350.
I’ve become used to the 10-abreast B777 but the A350 has the advantage of a nicer feel in the cabin with the air and whatnot. But yeah I’m really hoping Qatar Airways (my fav airline) doesn’t cave into this like the way they did with the 777 as they were the last of the big 3 Middle Eastern airlines to do that.
I've become used to avoiding 10-abreast B777 at all costs. I'll certainly avoid A350 at 10-abreast as well.
@@yaterspoon57especially when the A350 will have the least amount of seat width 😂 This guy saying it’s not that bad when his shoulders are basically almost over to the seats next to him, imagine you are sitting next to two big guys
I want to see a Low cost sleeper, just like a capsule hotel on longer routes on routes longer 8 hrs of flying. Passengers will feel more fresh when they land and carry on with their activities on the time they land.
For the mainstream carriers offering 3, sometimes even 4 classes on their long haul route with surprisingly small economy cabins, the increase in profitability by squeezing a few more passengers is probably insignificant, or even negative when compared to replacing even more economy seats with the much more profitable premium economy ones.
I wouldn't be surprised if the basic eco would get shorter and shorter in the future as a lot of people are fine to pay extra for the premium eco. Such trend is already obvious for causal flyer like me on long haul flight where the premium eco. is usually full but not the basic eco. Comparing to 30 years ago with inflation, today's premium eco costs just like the basic eco. in the past.
As expected, Airbus is going to offer two cabin configurations like they have done with the A320neo/A321neo, being Airpsace 9 abreast seating and Cabinflex 10 abreast seating. This is going to put pressure on Boeing and future cabin design for the B787.
Boeing already offers the 787 with 8-abreast and the 777 with 9-abreast. But market preferred 9-abreast and 10-abreast more comfortable than 10-abreast of A350 cabin. Boeing owns the market and the 787 outsells the A350. Also the 787 and 777 cabin have a more acceptable seating comfort than the A350 with 10 abreast ...
I don't think Boeing is in any pressure at all. Lol
200 orders for the 787 in the last 4 months. I think it's airbus, trying too hard to avoid losing out in the widebody segment.
So far there has been little interest in the a350 10 abreat
@@mmm0404 - Airbus offering a 9 abreast and 10 abreast seating options to airlines will put some pressure on Boeing, as the A350 in 9 abreast seating has proven to be economical for airlines and a better passenger experience for their customers. With Boeing, whilst the B787 was initially offering a 8 abreast seating option, airlines went for the 9 abreast option as airlines perceived that is would be more economical until the A350 was launch. Do you see Boeing offering a 8 abreast seating to airlines now, considering passengers are preferring the A350 for a a more comfortable travel in economy.
@@chrismckellar9350 Boeing planned for the 9 abreast seating on the 787 in advance. It was always in their back pocket, even when they introduced the 787 with 8 abreast.
The 787 has 19" seats in an 8 abreat, that was done on purpose to allow for 17" in a 9 abreats.
The same concept was applied on the 777 years before the 787.
@@mmm0404 - Yes I know. the B787 was designed for 9 abreast seating using narrower seats but was initially offered a wider seat in 8 abreast seating, which B787 launch customer ANA used.
Since the A350 has been launch, the A350 is a passengers choice with the wider seat 9 abreast hence airlines will use. The 10 abreast seating using a modified cabin configuration allows Airbus to expend the A350 market by offering to high density packaged leisure airlines like French Bee, a narrow seat 10 abreast configuration which is now a threat to the B787, as Boeing can not increase the seating above 9 abreast., with out using a narrower seat like 15" seat width.
Informative video as always, man -- nicely done. Also cool that Airbus consented to your visit. Was setting this up as simple as contacting Airbus's PR department, explaining who you are and requesting a visit?
I wonder how financially reasonable it would be to have a separate differentiated cabin class with 10 abreast, like a 10 abreast economy, 9 abreast main cabin, 8 abreast premium, and 4 abreast business. I could imagine the exposure to different cabins would encourage the sales of upgrades, though having so many differing hard products on one aircraft could be less than ideal for carriers.
This actually could be an interesting option. Not sure if any airlines are evaluating it but could be a way to balance out the comfort vs the cost
Airbus Airspace and Boeing Sky Interior seem to slowly be bringing back a sense of the glory days of air travel with a modern twist. Imagine someone describing all the cabin elements of the a350 to a 1950s traveler
I think they would be disgusted by our narrow, poorly padded seats and lack of service on board :D
So, it's all abut the airline and nothing about the customer. Those seats can't be any narrower, hand rests any thinner and less padding. I can't imagine being buried in a group of four. Would hate to fly real long haul on a ten abreast A350, it's bad enough on a 777.
3-4-3 is a crime against humanity.
It's very comfortable to sit in any seat with unlimited pitch!
Except on an A380 maybe
I flew on french bee 10 abreast. I can confirm that seats in the back end are more confortable than on Air Tahiti Nui 787 middle segments seats (9 abreast)
Great video and info!
Maby it will feel a little more tight then nine seats.
Have a great weekend!
Thanks! You too!
Good video but could you please use metric and imperial?
I did! Or at least I showed them on the screen. Most of my audience is still using American Freedom Units so that's gonna remain the default, but I'll make sure I keep flashing the metric conversion on the screen
Another important call out, when Delta sent the 777s for the interior upgrades they chose to stay 9 abreast where AA/UA went to 10. Hopefully that mentality holds true so they maintain the 9 abreast A350 and improve the passenger experience even more.
GOod point
There was a time only a decade ago that the the vast majority of the 1,000 or so 777s in the sky were 9 abreast - now even the likes of ANA and EVA are moving to 10 abreast. It may not happen overnight, but I suspect in 10 years the vast, vast majority of A350s flying will be 10 abreast as well.
I understand that QANTAS are considering using the A350 for a none stop flight from Sydney to London in the A350-1000 in the next couple of years. I think there's a big difference between sitting in a narrower seat for five minutes and feeling OK, as opposed to a 20-hour flight.
I flew on a Cathay Pacific A350 flight from Hong Kong to Brisbane. I had to check a video I took to confirm it was in fact a nine abreast configuration. I guess the reason I didn't notice was that there was hardly anyone on the aircraft and my wife and I had three seats to ourselves. Beautiful aircraft.
This video is ridiculous. You're sitting there ALONE, with your shoulders and elbows hanging over into the adjacent seats.
I think this is a good option for budget carriers. Giving more folks the option. I’m 6’4” and broad shouldered so 9 abreast would be worth the extra money 100%
yeah, most of the people flying budget to exotic places are on meth anyways...
I kid, I kid...
I'm 5'3 and slim, I dont see how 10 abreast would work for me. And yes the full service airlines will take advantage of this, knowing how greedy they are!
Coby what are you thinking. I have flown on the A350 series several times with a couple of airlines and do not consider it to have comfortable passenger cabin. My best pick for passenger comfort has been the A380 in economy class. Keep up the good work.
That's a hot take - the A350 is super comfy. Though I'll give it to you - the A380 is pretty great itself
I've made many a trip over the pond from the US to Europe and back. I see with Coby whose of a relatively narrow build, that his arms need the full of both of the arm rests on either side. The average American is not of such a build and I can see a six or seven or even more hours of flight being a non stop battle for armrest space. That's not for me. I'd rather pay the extra price and fly on a carrier that goes more for comfort than economy.
Amazing that you went to Airbus HQ for this. I look forward to the continued growth of Coby Explanes 👍🏾
Truly a surreal experience
@@cobyexplanesI’m glad to see you liking Airbus a bit more now! 😉 I love they were so open and let you explore various things at their HQ. Will you also go to Boeing HQ and do a similar video?
Yea, Coby needs to wipe his chin off now.
Could you make a video about the 747x series, especially the 600x. I am incredibly interested in this plane and would love it if it would really fly.
747x? never heard of it
@@cobyexplanes I’m pretty sure it was a proposal to give the 747 a full-length upper deck.
@@cobyexplanes As a counter design to the emerging a3xx, there was at that time the 747-500x, which was to be 76 meters long and the 747-600x with a length of 85 meters. It was only a stretching of top and bottom, but not as one aircraft with 2 continuous decks. (Project from 1996/97)
Time and time again, passengers vote for price over comfort. This precisely why 10 abreast in coach will become standard. The airlines will rebrand 9 abreast as “economy extra” or “premium economy”.
No need to massage the message and suggest it won’t happen, which seems to follow the PR handbook rather than the simple facts. They both lead to the same place but one that the relentless march towards denser seating will happen and that that March is passenger, not airline, driven.
More videos please!
I’ve been waiting for this video since you teased you were going to Toulouse! Great reporting!
I'll try anything once, even a 10-abreast A350. It is kind hard to tell but those seats definitely look wider than Frenchbee's current 10 abreast layout
Opening up long haul flights options to budget travelers does seem like a big win. Thanks for the great videos, Coby.
Glad you liked it ◡̈
I am 195 cm (6’ 5”) tall and weight 109 kg (240 lb) and having a fractional amount of seat width taken away doesn’t matter as much as having sufficient leg room. I more concerned about row density.
I honestly don’t care too much about sear configuration, I’m just mostly seeking good customer service experience.
I’ve flown many times on the 777 and 787 and had no issues with 10 and 9 abreast respectively.
I've flown on smaller planes, narrow bodies such as the A32x series with budget airlines like EasyJet and have never been uncomfortable I can't see these wide bodies being devoid of room. People just like to complain.
Especially Coby when it comes to Airbus planes lmao
Are you overweight even a little? Then this change is absolutely awful. You are skinny, the difference is massive. The assumption that airlines won't take it because they already make money is silly, because airlines will squeeze every single penny they can, and they don't give a single fuck about comfort for economy passengers, they'll just say pay more for premium economy (and give us more money). If airlines cared, they wouldn't have ruined all 777s during refits with 10 abreast seating. Because once one airline does it, they'll all do it. Like with the 787 and 777. History will repeat itself
Lol I'm definitely a little chubby these days. Put on 20 lbs since covid yikes
No matter how you try to sell it, 10 abreast is still cattle car class. Smaller seats and less leg room is still smaller seats and less leg room. No matter how you market it. And I choose not to participate. I don’t buy tickets on airplanes with under 18 inch wide seats and under 32 inches in pitch. (You might be surprised just how hard it is to find out how much room you have to sit in. Airlines generally don’t publish that information. You have to for the most part figure it out on your own.
The trend for airlines to have 10ab A350NPS isn't a thing now, but it can be a thing when the 777x enters service. Remember, the trend to put 10ab on the 777 wasn't gradual, it was latent and sudden because it was unfathomable until Emirates did it.
I’ve been in a 9-abreast A330 more than once. Nobody cares about comfort if people can save every penny on their trips.
A budget 12 hour flight? I'll pass
As do most people!
Fair enough, if you don't want to that's totally ok. But it'll give less fortunate people who would otherwise never be able to travel such long distances the chance to do so
Maybe it’s different in other places and I know you can try to find out which variant flies each leg, but it almost impossible to foresee which aircraft config you will get when buying a ticket. You do get the model, which may change, but not the specific AC you’ll be flying on. So it’s not like one has a say or not anyway.
Excellent and really helpful an in-person visit and demo as Airbus. Given the flexible options, it is as simple as, as you put it, SAVE THE CASH OR SAVOUR THE COUCH. Secondly, as a slender person, i would not feel even a 5 inch difference.
Bro sour test in mouth
Me: like when eating orange💀
What do you mean?
I don’t understand…
What I don't understand
So pumped to see this drop Coby! Great content!
glad you liked it ◡̈
I would rather that they not squeeze more seats in. This reminds me of 787s that were introduced with 2-4-2 and then others eventually squeezed in 3-3-3.
17 inch seat width on a 10-abreast a350 config is the same as Ryanair and other intra-European carriers use.
Tolerable on a 3-hour hop, but oppressively tight for anything longer, especially a 6-12 hour flight.
I get your point. The a350 can be used for short to medium haul flights and use that 10-abreast economy configuration.
2:49 I heard pounds and inches and stopped watching. Its a metric world, there are other better videos out there that uses units that the world understands . . .
Boeing was is and always will be the King
Haha 😂 no chance
I love Boeing but no shot Boeing had their last shot with the max that is screwed
👑❤
Boeing who? Ahhh lovely A380 best plane for passengers ever …. Cough 737max ….. cough lies and crashing ….
@@lettucefire news just came out. A321 is grounded. Go and read that news haha
Great video! Thanks for the insight. I know how booking an airline ticket can be just based on your own time frame, I know they list the aircraft. Which I pay attention to, but how in the world would I know how many rows an particular plane has and how wide the seats are when I am booking the flight? Thanks! I would appreciate any insight you may have.
Seatguru is a great place to find out!
Like others have said, board a 10 abreast seating on say Air Caraibes and sit in any row that has seats in from and behind you, and fly Paris to Havana a roughly 15H flight on a full flight and then describe your experience!