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JP recommends changing the o-rings every 5k rounds. O-rings are cheap, and It can be done in 1 minute. Also, in a properly built gun, that screw on the other end won't break, because when the gun is put together the end of the weights won't ever reach the cap screw because the length of the BCG keeps them suspended 1-2mm away from the end of travel.
JP put out a video on how to change the O rings without disassembly of the system. Very simple and quick to do. By the looks of your system, a good cleaning might help as well.
I was surprised with how dry the buffer in the video was, I expect a responsible gun owner to make sure their firearms are properly lubricated and taken care of. I'm always giving my friends shit for not lubricating their guns and then complaining about reliability issues.
@@Simply709 You think im gonna handle the buffer in hand while its soaking wet in lub? its not in the gun and im talking about it. It was wiped dry..............
@@autonomousdefense Yeah, actually. it doesn't need to be completely submerged and dripping in lube, Nobody is asking you to stick it in the 55 gallon tub of lube that your boyfriend keeps next to your bed to make a video. But any responsible gun owner would at least put a thin layer of some sort of CLP on their tools to keep them from rusting. And by how dry that buffer looked I'm assuming it sat dry for a few days. You should never leave tools just sitting dry, especially gun parts. Its literally one of the first things you learn in gunsmithing school. Unless you went to SDI, then they teach you how to wipe your ass.
I like how guys like this think they are going into battle and be shooting 10,000 rounds, let alone nothing break during that time. Even in war time, those guns were taken back to the armorer, cleaned and inspected.
7,000 rounds without replacement or armory service exceeds the mil spec for several parts on yhe M16A2 and beyond family of service rifles. Ive had service weapons break hammers, walk pins, even crack a bolt between scheduled armory visits. Btw, the cracked bolt first materialized as extractor problems.
Yeah whats wild is most civilian rifles exceed mil-spec requirements because we dont buy what is effectively the cheapest mass produced versions of our rifle's internal components. its almost like there is a difference between BCM, LMT, PSA, and M&P rifles.
I was an armorer, and if you abused your rifle like that, you would have gotten a counseling statement! Plus, i would have NEVER let you sign it back in….
@@JIMMYJAMES156821 "I was an armorer" I hope you don't take this personally because I've got no way of telling your actually experience level but I've seen people who shouldn't have a drivers license call themselves "Armorers" I've met men employed as armorers and "Gunsmiths" and I've watched dudes break customers guns, incorrectly assemble them, or install optics incorrectly. Extremely basic shit even in the military you can have dudes forget to torque barrel nuts being an "Armorer" means nothing, at all. to even state that like it gives you knowledge might as well be an admission you've never field tested equipment heavily. judging from the multiple comments you didnt even watch the entire video through to the end before asking questions or making statements.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, which I can only corroborate. I had a JP SCS in my Bul Armory BL9 PCC 9mm. Initially indeed smoother and more silent, but ~2000 rounds in, I started to have malfunctions. It took me a while to figure it out, but the plastic rear buffer started to crack and dump small plastic particles in the buffer tube, causing cycling issues. JP SCS concept sounds great, but adds more complexity and maintenance issues, than it actually solves. Thus, I switched back to the standard spring and buffer set up.
I take this video as pushing an item to it limits to find out its weaknesses. Same thing a lot of engineers do. Now that we know that the o-rings wear out (yes, we all should know that they are a wear item) , we know to inspect that part often (just like we should inspect everything regularly).
JP sells replacement O-rings sets at $8 for a pack of 12 which gives you enough rings for 4 replacements, or roughly 20,000 rounds - or you could just go to a hardware store and match them for much cheaper. But overall - having to replace $2 worth of O-Rings every 5,000 rounds doesn't seem like anything worth mentioning. Also something you could easily do in the field by just jamming the parts in a grip compartment. Realistically though - anyone with the slightest bit of mechanical knowledge and responsibility will never, ever have any issues with this in the field. Because they will inspect and maintain their equipment at intervals of
Or......you could buy a cheaper car that does the job better and doesnt need any of that. We're trying to make something more reliable not less. if im not mistaken the O ring round count limit isnt stated up front by JP on the product page so youre gonna find out by breaking it, not by having prior knowledge.
@@autonomousdefense you definitely should not purchase a SCS if you do not know what the intended purpose of it is (hint: it isn't just about some cheese-grater noise). But in any case - yeah i guess sometimes the world doesn't hold your hand. Maybe look at the o-rings with your eyeballs once every now and then - and replace them when they start to show wear. Or... just throw up your hands in confused desperation, throw in the towel and call it a bad product because you don't understand it. lol
@@regishevro971 So when the o ring failed it was during a 4 day outdoors training event were around 2000 rounds were fired and the stoppages that were occurring happened under nightvision in the middle of a multi man drill. Basically the worst possible time for a gun to go down and the issue couldnt be resolved. you might get a second or third shot off before the o ring caused another failure so your semi auto rifle is now a bolt gun which is also causing magazine feeding problems. its a bad product because it doesnt solve anything a standard 50$ buffer system cant handle for the cost of around 200$. Practically speaking this product does nothing. You spent extra money for something that causes problems that didnt exist.
@@autonomousdefense well, first off - completely your fault for not maintaining your equipment. If you've made it this far in life and still didn't know that o-rings were wear items, that's on you. Second off - if you're putting a $140+ buffer spring into a rifle solely to eliminate a “sproing” noise on the backend of a rifle that launches supersonic projectiles out the front end then… well, I don’t know what to say to you. If you’re just building a gucci gun for the sake of building a gucci gun - then by all means, go ahead. Most adults are probably aware that o-rings are wear parts and won’t have the same experience you did. The functional reasons to use a JP SCS are: 1) to facilitate using a JP VMOS, for all the reasons you would want to use a VMOS. 2) competition guns - SCS weights and springs are easily adjustable and allow you to tune a high-end race gun with mass instead of gas alone.
I have 3 , all went for $125 to $150 and really enjoy the system . 5000 to 7000 rounds ? I never expected a system upgrade to last that long without replacing something . I`m impressed if anything but of course a mil spec buffer works fine also .
Again, The volume of shooting was related to the class it was put through, it was lubed plenty, O-ring split and seized the action. the gun was cleaned and lubed repeatedly and it continued to fail due to the O-ring floating around in the tube. Again the most significant failures occurred under NODS in the dark making field servicing problematic. Standard system works fine.
O-rings in any system, machine, or weapon WILL need to be replaced at sometime, without applying the proper lubricants it will be very soon. Done so on multimillion dollar equipment pieces as well as a cheap lowes sink faucet. Doesnt matter the product. Knowing what youre getting into when you buy is crucial. Its not a failure point, its a compromise you made at purchase
I understand all that. The point I’m making is self evident. There are plenty of guns on the market and the ones people use are the ones that can go the longest with the least amount of maintenance so long as the weapon is lubricated. This is why glocks and their design replaced everything on the market when it came down to practical use. People sacrifice speed or weight for consistency and reliability.
Yeah but he's a speed freak and he's going to pinch his finger an slow him down, speed isn't everything and isn't really necessary much of the time unless you are running from cover to cover. situational awareness is more important and when coupled with superior marksmanship skills will produce excellent results. the buffer assembly looks like it's been run dry for quite a while or the wrong lubricant.looks like a axle shaft that's ran dry just before it gets hot turns blue and snaps. seven thousand rounds is lot of ammo somebody's got deep pockets. I've watched enough of those videos on RUclips and other sites online that are about "training" to me most of them appear to be more like how much ammo can we waste and how much noise can we make with very little situational awareness or focus on marksmanship or maybe I should say making the rounds count. in a bad situation ammunition is a very finite resource it's your job to make the other guys waste his ammo and loose the fight and run away...or try to...he might trip and fall down lol
The geissele buffer spring system is really nice too you may want to check it out. I think 7k rounds on these o rings is more than acceptable imo especially since they're cheap
JP makes a buffer spring retainer specifically for the SCS which also can be used on regular buffer spring set ups. I have my SCS set up with an A5 buffer tube in conjunction with a spacer just in case that it does fail I can easily switch to the A5 spring system. There are other cheaper alternatives like the Armaspec that offer similar results as the SCS.
If you want to tone down your gun use a super 42 braided spring h3 buffer. Or in combination with , a superlative arms adjustable gas gas block , the solid model .
Thanks for the info! I was looking at these but I feel something like the mk2 buffer system from Bcm may be the best of both worlds. Smooth out recoil and easy to replace. Only downside you need a different buffer tube. But changing it once doesn’t seem to be too much of a hassle
I've been doing a lot of research on building a better AR than I have before. And I just went with JP because everyone else did and there was so many great reviews on it. Then I started seeing videos like yours pop up and it definitely makes sense why would I put a $200 piece in there when the original does just fine and I have no failure points added to the rifle. I've worked on machines my entire life and I can tell you that even a brand new o-ring can snap easily or rub a certain way... I wouldn't pay much attention to some of the people in the comments seems like they may be upset that they may have took a gamble with $200. I really wonder if they put 5,000 plus rounds to test it.... Thanks for saving me time and money. I just don't want to take a chance.
I always install an adjustable gas block with my SCS…..tuned to the right spring they offer in the kit and have nothing but outstanding results. Love the SCS….worth the price.
I guess I don’t understand your point. You dislike the fact that with 7k rounds on it and no maintenance the rubber o rings can fail? I own 2 of these on ar 9 rifles and haven’t had any issues. However, I clean them. Sounds like you are looking for a maintenance free product. Haven’t come across that yet in my experience…
This always amazes me about the average “gun guy” they don’t seem to understand that things like o-rings and springs are WEAR ITEMS! They are supposed to be replaced at certain intervals. Mil-spec buffer springs are only suppose to last a few thousand rounds and this guy’s crying about o-rings at 7,000…. Ooook guy!
Doesn’t matter you don’t have to replace your regular springs on a buffer at 7k rounds dude. That wasn’t the gripe. The gripe is this can cause failures in the gun and ultimately the whole buffer can destroy itself. It’s a bad design made for a non existent problem. If you believe in the silent spring to begin with you aren’t very knowledgeable in the platform.
All you need to install the SCS past the retaining pin is a 1/16 Allen wrench. Just come in from the side and gently lever down the pin at each slot and push in the buffer. "Work smarter, not harder" is a good rule to live by. "None of us are as smart as all of us", is my motto.
I fully understand you can press it down to get it in and out but now you need something thin enough to easily get it out of the way. Again, their own instructions tell you to remove the retaining pin.
Yeah, I get. People always making you do more work because they don't give you enough credit that you might actually have the dexterity to do it the easy way. I use instruction sheets to make sure I have all the pieces. I saw one guy who said you could just leave the retaining pin out. That works fine until you want to quick change to a traditional spring and H2. I only have one of these in a range gun. Not anything I would do serious work with. Thanks for the video.
I have stock Tokarev TBP 12 I am look to install a JP Enterprises Silent Captured Recoil Buffer Spring Assembly. I would like to know which you would recommend.
I have this in my suppressed 300 blk. It definitely sucked up the "sproing". Of course, this wouldn't be of use in a .556. But it's epic firing 300 subs. I will never go back.
Owner of two JP SCS Gen 2, and love them both dearly. Granted im not Tactical Ted. I use quality parts that work and maintain them as instructed. I shoot as much as I need to have fun, stay proficient and safe, and not a round more. I can see how mil-sim larping can be hard on equipment. Alot of rounds for sure.
Tactical Ted because I use my equipment how they’re designed, hell yea! Rob Collin’s sits on the range and cry’s about other men doing what they want 😂
@@RandomWrongDeletion You are absolutely right! Your manly bravado have me weeping in the fetal position until I pass out from oxygen deprivation! Tactical Ted!! Saving us all from untactical gear and a untactical lifestyle with his tactical tacticalness. Thaaaaank goodness! If you think LARPing on a flat range is "testing your gear as it's meant to be used" you are a fool.
@@robkilcollins310 It sounds like you’re too broke to afford decent training and you’re jealous of better men who take the time to fine tune their craft. To each their own, you genuinely seem like the kind of guy who shouldn’t leave the flat range.
You ever try a David Tubbs flat wire spring? Pretty awesome!! Along with a spikes st-t2 tungsten H2 buffer is one quiet and flat shooting 👍👍 under a hundred for everything. FYI
I got the jp scs for the maxim defense cqb they said it was compatible with all standard style bcgs but now my bolt doesn't go far enough back to engage my bolt lock ive tried emailing maxim but they wont return my email and they have a 30day return policy
Thanks for the video, i was thinking about getting this but paying 150 bucks for a product that you have to replace the o ring on is a hassle. Guess ill be looking for something else.
Is changing o rings every 5k rounds too much to ask? i dont thing that it should be in a service rifle but for a regular rifle doing that should be fine
So something that isn’t ok for a rifle that would actually be getting used for the purpose a rifle is intended for isn’t ok but if it’s for something not actually being used like it’s meant to then it’s ok? I think you answered your own question.
@@autonomousdefense No there is other uses for rifles than then a service rifle, but i see on their website they sell these in their duty and patrol rifles, i guess if you followed the manufacturers service guide line and changed the O ring at 5k, and not complaining about it at 7k you would not have issues, your lack of maintenance is not JP or the O-rings fault
Which type of buffer tube are you using? I wonder if using their buffer would yield the same result. Or potentially using a commercial buffer tube vs a Milspec? Idk, just thinking out loud…
Yes actually, standard spring and a H2 buffer or appropriate weight based on the build. I actually revisited this rabbit hole of tuning guns based off the buffer system and oh boy. The vltor A5 and BCM MK2 systems might be gigantic crocks of shit. Weirdly enough if you look deep enough into it. It appears flat wire springs and higher mass H3-H4 buffers might actually accomplish the same thing JP, vltor, BCM, and giessele. Claim to do with their proprietary recoil systems. It’s really weird how all of these companies all tried accomplishing the same thing. I think I’ve found more people using springco springs and flatwire springs than people who actually use the vltor. Eventually I’ll put out another video about It if I find anything of significant value from trying something other than a standard buffer and spring again. I’ve got a feeling it won’t make that much of a difference.
If you don't like something, don't use it. Everyone has their reasons for what equipment they use. It did what it was built to do. Just replace the orings.
Fair assessment. Wish I'd seen this before I forked over $200, 10 mins ago. It's for DPMS 308 system, so not completely the same thing, but still... which I'd come across your vid 10 mins sooner.
Sooo... laziness, lack of proper regular inspection & maintenance is the issue, NOT the buffer assembly! For a minute there, i thought it was the buffer assembly that failed, turns out it was just the shooter.
Anyone who thinks an O-ring is something that NEVER needs to be changed, is not worthy of advising others. And, I do this weird thing....clean and care for my weapons/tools.
Anyone who skips through a video and makes absolute statements that aren’t even said in the video probably shouldn’t post a comment making themselves look stupid. God forbid anyone actually claims the original design that’s changed very little in the last hundred years is somehow superior than gimmick products nobody fucking uses.
I am filing a class action suit against Ford. The round things that my truck rides on are wearing out and steel is showing. What kind of bs is that. I call the dealership to complain. The service writer laughed at me. He said they were called tires and that's a wear item and they will need to be replaced periodically. I started whining that I paid $80,000 dollars for the truck. The tires should last for the life of the truck.😢
“Nope. Tires solve a problem that doesn’t exist and I don’t like creating new problems. My wagon wheels are creaky and bumpier but they are cheap and replaceable and what everyone else uses and they work just fine! DO NOT IMPROVE ON SOMETHING THAT ISN’T A real PROBLEM, PERIOD”
I put one of those in every one of my builds. What you’re telling me is that you are removing a far superior buffer because you don’t want to do maintenance before 7000 rounds?
Power to you, if you like it and you wanna use it that’s cool. This was a longevity test to see what failed and how it failed and what failed is a problem that doesn’t “need” to exist. I…do….not….like….creating…..problems. If this system was actually DRASTICALLY better than a standard buffer system you could make the arguments it’s worth the problems but it isn’t. Muzzle brakes have a more significant effect on recoil than this, triggers have a more significant effect on how well and how fast you can run the gun, optics have a more significant effect on how fast and effectively you can run the gun. What this thing does is insignificant unless you’re tuning more than just the buffer system and at that point what you do with the gas system, the ammo, the muzzle, the barrel, all of that shit is what is altering your recoil and use of the weapon. Not the buffer.
Wow, I understand you had failures with it. Did you ever clean it? Holy crap it looks like it’s been drug through the vacuum cleaner. Man you gotta clean it I’m not saying every time I shoot but you said you’re five 6000 rounds deep. wipe it down and oil it up every two or 3000 round something
I traded the standard pin for an HK416 pin, then swapped the standard spring with a JP polished spring and a Spike's T1 buffer. Costed about 60 all together. Cheaper and it's quieter. @@autonomousdefense
After as many rounds as you said you had through that weapon, anyone would realize that some wear and tear would occur. You wanted silent, you got silent. Everything has trade offs. You could maintain your weapons from time to time. $200 is nothing if you’re buying thousands upon thousands of rounds to train.
200$ is something if its less effective than the original system that costs less than half that. Yes, I expected wear and tear eventually. that is literally the point of the test, to see what and how it failed. yknow what you call wasting money on something that objectively brings no benefits and has more cons than it does pros? Stupid, you call it stupid. Its as if people don't understand just because something exists doesn't mean its actually a good design when used practically this is the entire reason people review and test products. Im advocating you spend your money on: Solid optics, Solid triggers, Gas systems, and muzzle devices. Literally all of those items have a more significant effect on how the gun runs and how you run it than this recoil system. Yknow what also help you spend more money on thousands of rounds to train? not spending it on products that fail.
have you tried cleaning your weapon at all ? it doesn't look like it ever had any lube on it . one would think if you were in competition you might do some preventive maintenance on your weapon before you actually go to the competition
It wasn’t being used for competition and competition weapons are an entirely different conversation. Competition guns are meant to be as fast and recoil efficient as possible to the point only specific ammo works and they’re almost unsafe mechanically. This gun was extremely lubed at all time it’s never dry.
Thank you for this information. I agree with you, a lot of money for additional failure points does not make sense. I have run many thousands of rounds, full auto and semi, and only had one failure/replacement required (regarding buffers & springs). That failure was a broken buffer retaining pin.
Idk brother 8 buck and you get 15,000 - 21,000 rounds worth of orings. Pretty minimal maintenance for the quality of the buffer. But for sure if it doesn’t benefit you I understand. But for me I want my BCM to function as close to my honey Badger jn smoothness and so far this seems to be the best option.
Ok but like, and hear me out…….what about less maintenance……with a system that doesn’t have bolt bounce like the honey badger…….and doesn’t break in a specific way that will stop the gun running entirely. Real talk if you want a honey badger and a gun that does honey badger things fucking do it. That is a very specific build that should be run 300blk. But if you want a rifle that can handle extreme abuse with the highest reliability, there is a reason dudes figured all this shit out literally several wars ago.
Maybe it’s just because I’ve shot tens of thousand of rounds through AKM style guns and shotguns and bolt guns because the AR15 is relatively low recoil and smooth already and I genuinely cannot see a difference between this system and the standard in a practical sense. Like sure it feels different, that hasn’t changed anything as far as how the gun shoots. Surefire duel port, absolutely. Silent capture system? No.
You made a good point, this upgrade creates another "failure point" that requires maintenance ..something to consider now because i was thinking about pairing this along with a JP LMOS bcg to work a Geissele SD3G in my mp15
Cleaned? yes, it was normally cleaned every 500-1000 rounds fired due to all the suppressor sludge. the sludge itself never caused failure. a casing might have gotten stuck in the chamber if I was using steeled cased at the time as the increased friction of that casing tends to do that if you dont keep it lubricated but that happened maybe 4 times in the 6000-7000 rounds fired. The way I actually figured out the O-ring was causing the failures was repeatedly deep cleaning it in quick succession and the gun failing even while clean.
I own 3 scs’s and love them all Especially on my suppressed 300blk out Jus do maintenance on your orings every 5k rounds Most of y’all will go your entire lifetime and neeever shoot that many rounds anyway lol
The audience my content is geared to are people who train and part of my goals are to get people to train. Equipment of any kind that doesn't hold up to a basic training regimen is of little value. if you want something that looks good and is fragile you should be collecting wrist watches not gun parts. 5000rd is a very low round count.
“ training “ shooting ALOT. NOT COMBAT. I have 3. I clean my guns all the way. Buffer retainer pin. Depress with dental pick. Unit comes right out. Mine are ARMESPEC. I only with my MSRs. I am not an urban ranger. And yes lower your maintenance with a Giesle.
@@Nick-ik7vr 7,000-10,000 if not more. it isnt just about the round count its about what is failing. it should be the physical spring doing all the work that gets noticeably sluggish from being so heavily used rather than something else in the tube stopping the gun.
@@Nick-ik7vr mind you that replacing a normal spring is laughably cheap and laughably easy almost like this shit is the way it is because dudes figured this out a LONG time ago.
You are correct, the JP SCS requires maintenance sooner than a mil spec recoil system (replacing pads and springs) around 5000 rounds..Much like the time frame the military replaces bolts..What I don't agree with is you can use the standard retaining pin, but is much easier using the thicker retaining pin from JP that will work with mill spec..There is no need to remove the buffer retaining pin..That was the weird dude from DeRanged who recommended removing it..The JP SCS is an easy process to replace the rubber pads, springs etc..I have done it many, many times..he JP SCS is well worth the improvement in perceived recoil, smoother carrier action and faster follow up shots compared to the mil spec system..I have never found any degradation in reliability using the JP SCS.... All mechanical things require maintenance and parts replacement..Keep your rifle on a schedule and there will be zero problems..I change my oil every 3500 miles when the factory says 10,000 miles is good enough..My vehicles will run for 350.000 to 400.000 before I go newer..AR rifles are no different..
Actually that removal of the retainer pin came straight from the instructions the product had. That was JPs recommendation. No idea if they’ve changed their recommendations but at the time of purchase that was the case. I understand mechanical things require maintenance but your claims that this recoil system makes any significant differences are false. Its “improvement” is negligible at best. If you want to talk about things that honestly effect how well you run a gun, muzzle devices, triggers, optics, and gas length actually significantly alter recoil. I disagree with the points you’re trying to make. of course mechanical things require maintenance but how something breaks and what it’s being compared to matter.
@@autonomousdefenseJP makes a retainer pin for the SCS that will also work with the mil spec buffer..JP stated the retainer could be used installed or removed with their SCS, so lets get that straight..It was the weird dude from DeRanged who made a big deal about removing it..Gas adjustment/ammunition, muzzle comp, and the lightest reciprocating mass is what creates recoil reduction..The JP SCS absolutely makes a difference in recoil reduction, especially when paired with an adj gas blcok and muzzle comp..I"ll take that Pepsi challenge with my rifles against anybody else's rifle..You even admit it smooths the action, which is part of recoil mitigation..Faster follow up shots..Triggers, optics and even the gas length (to a certain degree) means nothing when mitigating recoil, if the gas is adjustable..For faster follow up shots absolutely..Dwell time or un-lock time is not effected by buffer weight, period..By the way, I have had JP SCS in my rifles for way over a decade and none of them have looked as bad as yours.. You obviously don't lube or service your rifles very well..We all have different opinions about what works and doesn't, so don't be surprised when you get a little push back, nothing personal..The JP SCS is not the end all of recoil systems but it makes enough difference that I use it in all of my competition guns..I don't use them in any self defense rifles of mine..I personally have no use for the A5 system and could never see or feel any benefit to it other than being able to use more weight in the buffer for a lot more expense.. Later!
@@hairydogstail so, because of how heavily the rifle is used it’s constantly lubed up with 10w40 motor oil because it’s thick enough not to burn of especially when ran suppressed. My guns are actually serviced a lot more than they need to be because I like a lot of dudes get bored and take it apart to wipe it down and inspect it while I watch something on RUclips or Netflix, or Amazon. The gun is never dry and it gets heavily used. Mine buffer doesn’t “look bad” it looks like it actually got used it was taken to 5000 rounds and that’s it. I down own multiple in multiple rifles I have the one rifle I use the one rifle and I actually get to see what holds up and what doesn’t because that’s the point of testing. You sure do point out a lot of factors involving recoil that doesn’t actually involve this buffer systems for someone trying to argue it actually matters.
@@autonomousdefenseFirst off, using 10w40 oil is probably what degraded your O rings in the first place..Mine last longer than yours and the weights don't look like crap after that few of rounds..When I was competing for many, many years, I put around 350 rounds a week through my rifle, so I know what wear occurs on the AR platform..I use LSA lube and have found it better than all of the other snake oils people push..I competed in 3 gun, multi gun and long range using my custom AR rifles..I hunt with my 6.5 Grendels and have recently went with 300 black out rifles for my hiking rifles..My entire family competes, hunts and uses the AR platform..I also helped many friends in competition and law enforcement repair and set up their rifles, both suppressed and un-suppressed..The fastest times I have made were with a lighter Sprinco recoil spring and hydralic buffer with controlled gas..My point is the JP SCS does effect recoil and improve faster follow up shots.. Your blanket statement on how the JP SCS is not worth the cost and has no effect on recoil just rubbed me wrong..The recoil system type matched with the other factors absolutely effects recoil mitigation and faster follow up shots..Later!
@@hairydogstail dog, 10w40 a fucking motor oil meant for vehicles operating at heat and moving parts higher than even fully automatic rifles will reach did not degrade the o-ring the o-ring broke exactly where JP said it would which by the way isn’t information the opening tell you.
Look at the trajectory of your shells when ejected around 2 o’clock tells me your gun is running very gassy probably because of the suppressor putting the JP silence spring on probably increases that and if your spring is too heavy, you can have problems with the bolt locking on the last round it’s all about the fine tune man
Bolts never had problems locking to the rear. What you’re talking about has never been an issue nor is it even the subject of this review or the problems with this product. Regardless of the pressure this system was fired suppressed and unsuppressed and the system failed at the exact round count JP claimed it would which again, they do not openly tell you when you purchase the product. And it’s not about fine tuning, fine tuning is a gas port drilled properly to allow the gun to cycle and fire reliably. If you have a properly built “duty” style rifle using a BCM upper your failure point shouldn’t be a recoil spring assembly.
I think this is fair critique if youre setting up an "end of the world" rifle but replacing O-rings once every FIVE THOUSAND ROUNDS is not exactly what I'd call an un-reliable product
The issue is primarily it failing when you really need it not to. Again since replacing the system with the good ole H2 buff and spring it’s performing just as well if not better because of the extra feedback from vibration and now it has one less failure point. Like there really isn’t any justification for using this product at all. You can still configure competition guns and suppressed rifles extremely well without the use of this system.
In eliminating the buffer retaining pin it removes a failure point that doesnt have a round count, those things can just shit the bed sometimes and when that happens its an equally bad failure. JP's o-ring failure is also 100% preventable via basic maintenence of the system you spent $150 on. Replace o-rings every 5000 rounds, theyre $8. I've never used the sproing to help myself shoot, so I cant comment on that, but it seems its probably not worth maintaing a failure point for.
@@MedicalTape_xX fair point, I’ve never personally seen that retaining pin break and if I’m not mistaken companies sell beefed up versions of that pin.
I'm curious, why would you be concerned about the sound of your buffer making noise when you fire? the sound of the firing would be louder than the buffer tube noise.
Finally somebody else says it. I used to have 2 scs’s. eventually i had a really overgassed rifle and had to add mass and spring weight to it. $200 later, gun still needs more mass and more spring. The reduction in noise isnt worth $200, there are better options out there like the geissele super42. Even then, just deal with the noise, it literally doesnt affect anything but your mind.
@@danoneal9816 what about pinned gas block rifles? All im saying is that $200 for an undersprung buffer system which then requires another $100 for an adjustable gas block, isnt worth the money Id much prefer spending $30 on a tubbs flatwire if i really cant stand the noise.
@@eitrisenhancementsllcYou could have purchased an BRD EZTUNE gas tube as an easy fix..Heavier buffers do not fix over gassed systems, they just mask the problem.. Always meter the gas first if possible, if you want the most efficient and reliable rifle possible..
What’s wild to me is how many people in this cancerous comment section buy into the marketing of this product, like the decades of engineering and evolution of the ar15 weren’t infinitely more strict in developing it for war and competition use.
@@autonomousdefense The older you get the more you'll notice it. I'm 35 years old. 👴 I've been playing with guns since I was 13. I'll share with you the lessons I've learned in over 20 years: >the more money a guy spends the harder he copes (SCAR owners are particularly egregious) >most gun guys really don't know shit about guns >a lot of parts, accessories, techniques, and other elements of gun community are nothing but fads
I wsh jp would chill back on their prives just a bit. If they would be a bit more than Arma then perfect. Also, get a k1 or k2 fortus castle nut ststem. Youll necer use a standard castle nut plate ever again
Which is a shame. as much back and forth as there is in these comments I really do like seeing weapons develop and change hopefully to improve across the board.
JP recommends changing the o-rings every 5k rounds. O-rings are cheap, and It can be done in 1 minute. Also, in a properly built gun, that screw on the other end won't break, because when the gun is put together the end of the weights won't ever reach the cap screw because the length of the BCG keeps them suspended 1-2mm away from the end of travel.
JP put out a video on how to change the O rings without disassembly of the system. Very simple and quick to do. By the looks of your system, a good cleaning might help as well.
I’ll have to give it a look, regardless the issue is more so the failure point and then having to service it whilst in the middle of other things
bro 5-7k round count change the o rings twice a year for the average man and you are fine @@autonomousdefense
I was surprised with how dry the buffer in the video was, I expect a responsible gun owner to make sure their firearms are properly lubricated and taken care of. I'm always giving my friends shit for not lubricating their guns and then complaining about reliability issues.
@@Simply709 You think im gonna handle the buffer in hand while its soaking wet in lub? its not in the gun and im talking about it. It was wiped dry..............
@@autonomousdefense Yeah, actually. it doesn't need to be completely submerged and dripping in lube, Nobody is asking you to stick it in the 55 gallon tub of lube that your boyfriend keeps next to your bed to make a video. But any responsible gun owner would at least put a thin layer of some sort of CLP on their tools to keep them from rusting. And by how dry that buffer looked I'm assuming it sat dry for a few days. You should never leave tools just sitting dry, especially gun parts. Its literally one of the first things you learn in gunsmithing school. Unless you went to SDI, then they teach you how to wipe your ass.
I like how guys like this think they are going into battle and be shooting 10,000 rounds, let alone nothing break during that time. Even in war time, those guns were taken back to the armorer, cleaned and inspected.
7,000 rounds without replacement or armory service exceeds the mil spec for several parts on yhe M16A2 and beyond family of service rifles. Ive had service weapons break hammers, walk pins, even crack a bolt between scheduled armory visits. Btw, the cracked bolt first materialized as extractor problems.
Yeah whats wild is most civilian rifles exceed mil-spec requirements because we dont buy what is effectively the cheapest mass produced versions of our rifle's internal components. its almost like there is a difference between BCM, LMT, PSA, and M&P rifles.
I was an armorer, and if you abused your rifle like that, you would have gotten a counseling statement! Plus, i would have NEVER let you sign it back in….
@@JIMMYJAMES156821 "I was an armorer" I hope you don't take this personally because I've got no way of telling your actually experience level but I've seen people who shouldn't have a drivers license call themselves "Armorers" I've met men employed as armorers and "Gunsmiths" and I've watched dudes break customers guns, incorrectly assemble them, or install optics incorrectly. Extremely basic shit even in the military you can have dudes forget to torque barrel nuts being an "Armorer" means nothing, at all. to even state that like it gives you knowledge might as well be an admission you've never field tested equipment heavily. judging from the multiple comments you didnt even watch the entire video through to the end before asking questions or making statements.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, which I can only corroborate. I had a JP SCS in my Bul Armory BL9 PCC 9mm. Initially indeed smoother and more silent, but ~2000 rounds in, I started to have malfunctions. It took me a while to figure it out, but the plastic rear buffer started to crack and dump small plastic particles in the buffer tube, causing cycling issues. JP SCS concept sounds great, but adds more complexity and maintenance issues, than it actually solves. Thus, I switched back to the standard spring and buffer set up.
I take this video as pushing an item to it limits to find out its weaknesses. Same thing a lot of engineers do. Now that we know that the o-rings wear out (yes, we all should know that they are a wear item) , we know to inspect that part often (just like we should inspect everything regularly).
7,000 rounds is an awfully short lifespan.
JP sells replacement O-rings sets at $8 for a pack of 12 which gives you enough rings for 4 replacements, or roughly 20,000 rounds - or you could just go to a hardware store and match them for much cheaper.
But overall - having to replace $2 worth of O-Rings every 5,000 rounds doesn't seem like anything worth mentioning. Also something you could easily do in the field by just jamming the parts in a grip compartment.
Realistically though - anyone with the slightest bit of mechanical knowledge and responsibility will never, ever have any issues with this in the field. Because they will inspect and maintain their equipment at intervals of
Or......you could buy a cheaper car that does the job better and doesnt need any of that. We're trying to make something more reliable not less. if im not mistaken the O ring round count limit isnt stated up front by JP on the product page so youre gonna find out by breaking it, not by having prior knowledge.
@@autonomousdefense you definitely should not purchase a SCS if you do not know what the intended purpose of it is (hint: it isn't just about some cheese-grater noise).
But in any case - yeah i guess sometimes the world doesn't hold your hand. Maybe look at the o-rings with your eyeballs once every now and then - and replace them when they start to show wear.
Or... just throw up your hands in confused desperation, throw in the towel and call it a bad product because you don't understand it. lol
@@regishevro971 So when the o ring failed it was during a 4 day outdoors training event were around 2000 rounds were fired and the stoppages that were occurring happened under nightvision in the middle of a multi man drill. Basically the worst possible time for a gun to go down and the issue couldnt be resolved. you might get a second or third shot off before the o ring caused another failure so your semi auto rifle is now a bolt gun which is also causing magazine feeding problems. its a bad product because it doesnt solve anything a standard 50$ buffer system cant handle for the cost of around 200$. Practically speaking this product does nothing. You spent extra money for something that causes problems that didnt exist.
@@regishevro971 Its a bad product if you intend to actually use your gun to get good with your gun so that you actually are a competent shooter.
@@autonomousdefense well, first off - completely your fault for not maintaining your equipment. If you've made it this far in life and still didn't know that o-rings were wear items, that's on you. Second off - if you're putting a $140+ buffer spring into a rifle solely to eliminate a “sproing” noise on the backend of a rifle that launches supersonic projectiles out the front end then… well, I don’t know what to say to you.
If you’re just building a gucci gun for the sake of building a gucci gun - then by all means, go ahead. Most adults are probably aware that o-rings are wear parts and won’t have the same experience you did.
The functional reasons to use a JP SCS are:
1) to facilitate using a JP VMOS, for all the reasons you would want to use a VMOS.
2) competition guns - SCS weights and springs are easily adjustable and allow you to tune a high-end race gun with mass instead of gas alone.
I have 3 , all went for $125 to $150 and really enjoy the system . 5000 to 7000 rounds ? I never expected a system upgrade to last that long without replacing something . I`m impressed if anything
but of course a mil spec buffer works fine also .
I like you.
they only goes for $70 buck
For the love of God... if you'd kept that thing lubed, and cleaned it every thousand rounds or so, itd probably still be functioning.
Again, The volume of shooting was related to the class it was put through, it was lubed plenty, O-ring split and seized the action. the gun was cleaned and lubed repeatedly and it continued to fail due to the O-ring floating around in the tube.
Again the most significant failures occurred under NODS in the dark making field servicing problematic. Standard system works fine.
O-rings in any system, machine, or weapon WILL need to be replaced at sometime, without applying the proper lubricants it will be very soon. Done so on multimillion dollar equipment pieces as well as a cheap lowes sink faucet. Doesnt matter the product. Knowing what youre getting into when you buy is crucial. Its not a failure point, its a compromise you made at purchase
I understand all that. The point I’m making is self evident. There are plenty of guns on the market and the ones people use are the ones that can go the longest with the least amount of maintenance so long as the weapon is lubricated. This is why glocks and their design replaced everything on the market when it came down to practical use. People sacrifice speed or weight for consistency and reliability.
you can use a standard ar buffer system without a retainer pin. you just need to hold it down with your finger when you put the receivers together.
Yeah but he's a speed freak and he's going to pinch his finger an slow him down, speed isn't everything and isn't really necessary much of the time unless you are running from cover to cover. situational awareness is more important and when coupled with superior marksmanship skills will produce excellent results. the buffer assembly looks like it's been run dry for quite a while or the wrong lubricant.looks like a axle shaft that's ran dry just before it gets hot turns blue and snaps. seven thousand rounds is lot of ammo somebody's got deep pockets.
I've watched enough of those videos on RUclips and other sites online that are about "training" to me most of them appear to be more like how much ammo can we waste and how much noise can we make with very little situational awareness or focus on marksmanship or maybe I should say making the rounds count. in a bad situation ammunition is a very finite resource it's your job to make the other guys waste his ammo and loose the fight and run away...or try to...he might trip and fall down lol
Orings need to be replaced and should be lubricated once and a while, otherwise they dry out and crack/fail. They are just rubber
The geissele buffer spring system is really nice too you may want to check it out. I think 7k rounds on these o rings is more than acceptable imo especially since they're cheap
JP makes a buffer spring retainer specifically for the SCS which also can be used on regular buffer spring set ups. I have my SCS set up with an A5 buffer tube in conjunction with a spacer just in case that it does fail I can easily switch to the A5 spring system. There are other cheaper alternatives like the Armaspec that offer similar results as the SCS.
Same. I love that JP started making an A5 specific spacer for people like us who kept their A5 extension when they upgraded to the SCS.
I was looking at running my front buis backwards like you are in the video, to save rail space. Glad I'm not the only one 😂
“If it’s stupid and it works it isn’t stupid”
Bro this gun manages to maintain 3 sighting systems and it’s still an NVG gun. Pretty happy with it.
Lol
I built my own 308 carbine AR... I installed a flat wire recoal spring,works great 👍😎🇺🇸
I've standardized on the Geissele Super 42 twisted spring and buffer, and I'm very happy with the results.
I guarantee that this guy doesn’t change the oil in his car 😂
No u
I was just thinking the same thing. 😂
You saved me a lot of money! Thanks!!
If you want to tone down your gun use a super 42 braided spring h3 buffer.
Or in combination with , a superlative arms adjustable gas gas block , the solid model .
Thanks for the info! I was looking at these but I feel something like the mk2 buffer system from Bcm may be the best of both worlds. Smooth out recoil and easy to replace. Only downside you need a different buffer tube. But changing it once doesn’t seem to be too much of a hassle
I've been doing a lot of research on building a better AR than I have before. And I just went with JP because everyone else did and there was so many great reviews on it. Then I started seeing videos like yours pop up and it definitely makes sense why would I put a $200 piece in there when the original does just fine and I have no failure points added to the rifle.
I've worked on machines my entire life and I can tell you that even a brand new o-ring can snap easily or rub a certain way...
I wouldn't pay much attention to some of the people in the comments seems like they may be upset that they may have took a gamble with $200. I really wonder if they put 5,000 plus rounds to test it....
Thanks for saving me time and money. I just don't want to take a chance.
Appreciate the feedback, glad the information was of value.
I always install an adjustable gas block with my SCS…..tuned to the right spring they offer in the kit and have nothing but outstanding results. Love the SCS….worth the price.
Yup
Thanks for the heads up.
SCS Maintenance Kit is only $21 the replacement O-Rings are on $8. You can pull apart in 2 min and should be cleaning anyway.
Thanks for making this an easy choice for the rest of us!
Great review, thanks. I wonder if thin rubber washers would work in lieu of o-rings and last longer
I guess I don’t understand your point. You dislike the fact that with 7k rounds on it and no maintenance the rubber o rings can fail? I own 2 of these on ar 9 rifles and haven’t had any issues. However, I clean them. Sounds like you are looking for a maintenance free product. Haven’t come across that yet in my experience…
This product is huge in the 3 gun community. Huge , huge,huge. For a reason.
Don't disagree with him, he'll have an emotional meltdown lol..
Thank you for this honest video !!!!
This always amazes me about the average “gun guy” they don’t seem to understand that things like o-rings and springs are WEAR ITEMS! They are supposed to be replaced at certain intervals. Mil-spec buffer springs are only suppose to last a few thousand rounds and this guy’s crying about o-rings at 7,000…. Ooook guy!
When someone on the internet says buy once cry once I've already checked out knowing they don't shoot more than 1000rnds a year
Doesn’t matter you don’t have to replace your regular springs on a buffer at 7k rounds dude. That wasn’t the gripe. The gripe is this can cause failures in the gun and ultimately the whole buffer can destroy itself. It’s a bad design made for a non existent problem. If you believe in the silent spring to begin with you aren’t very knowledgeable in the platform.
@@starxlord9856this is false maintain your gear this is just simple maintenance
With that much shootings I'm sure your changing out your barrel as well often.
He probably never changes the oil in his car😂😂
I’ve always enjoyed the spring and rattle.
All you need to install the SCS past the retaining pin is a 1/16 Allen wrench. Just come in from the side and gently lever down the pin at each slot and push in the buffer. "Work smarter, not harder" is a good rule to live by. "None of us are as smart as all of us", is my motto.
I fully understand you can press it down to get it in and out but now you need something thin enough to easily get it out of the way. Again, their own instructions tell you to remove the retaining pin.
Yeah, I get. People always making you do more work because they don't give you enough credit that you might actually have the dexterity to do it the easy way. I use instruction sheets to make sure I have all the pieces. I saw one guy who said you could just leave the retaining pin out. That works fine until you want to quick change to a traditional spring and H2. I only have one of these in a range gun. Not anything I would do serious work with. Thanks for the video.
at 5K rounds. i think i would expect a lot more failures! how long did you expect it to last?! LOL!
5k is like the baseline test for most reliable weapons. that isnt a lot of ammo.
I have stock Tokarev TBP 12 I am look to install a JP Enterprises Silent Captured Recoil Buffer Spring Assembly. I would like to know which you would recommend.
I have this in my suppressed 300 blk. It definitely sucked up the "sproing". Of course, this wouldn't be of use in a .556. But it's epic firing 300 subs. I will never go back.
Great review. I took a new build to the range today with the JP system and didn’t notice any real difference. Not for the price for sure.
Owner of two JP SCS Gen 2, and love them both dearly.
Granted im not Tactical Ted. I use quality parts that work and maintain them as instructed. I shoot as much as I need to have fun, stay proficient and safe, and not a round more.
I can see how mil-sim larping can be hard on equipment. Alot of rounds for sure.
So you can see how using this equipment how it’s meant to be used could be hard on it? What a nothing comment 😂
@@RandomWrongDeletion You created a oxymoron with that genius reply. Bravo tactical ted.
Tactical Ted because I use my equipment how they’re designed, hell yea! Rob Collin’s sits on the range and cry’s about other men doing what they want 😂
@@RandomWrongDeletion You are absolutely right! Your manly bravado have me weeping in the fetal position until I pass out from oxygen deprivation! Tactical Ted!! Saving us all from untactical gear and a untactical lifestyle with his tactical tacticalness. Thaaaaank goodness!
If you think LARPing on a flat range is "testing your gear as it's meant to be used" you are a fool.
@@robkilcollins310 It sounds like you’re too broke to afford decent training and you’re jealous of better men who take the time to fine tune their craft. To each their own, you genuinely seem like the kind of guy who shouldn’t leave the flat range.
You ever try a David Tubbs flat wire spring? Pretty awesome!! Along with a spikes st-t2 tungsten H2 buffer is one quiet and flat shooting 👍👍 under a hundred for everything. FYI
I have not, this experience really makes me wanna just go with the old reliable H2 silicon spring set up. Might fuck wit the Vltor A5 at some point.
@@autonomousdefenseThe tubbs flatwires are legit. Very flat, very durable, extra simple
Good information
Can this be used on an A.R 10. I know the RUGER SFAR uses A.R 15 platform and parts.
This is a great channel. Are you going to continue to make videos?
Try the Geissele super 42 buffer and spring, it does the same thing without failure points. It's also cheaper in price.
I got the jp scs for the maxim defense cqb they said it was compatible with all standard style bcgs but now my bolt doesn't go far enough back to engage my bolt lock ive tried emailing maxim but they wont return my email and they have a 30day return policy
Do you recommend A5 Voltr system better or stick to regular carbine?
Regular carbine works perfectly fine
Thanks for the video, i was thinking about getting this but paying 150 bucks for a product that you have to replace the o ring on is a hassle. Guess ill be looking for something else.
Is changing o rings every 5k rounds too much to ask? i dont thing that it should be in a service rifle but for a regular rifle doing that should be fine
So something that isn’t ok for a rifle that would actually be getting used for the purpose a rifle is intended for isn’t ok but if it’s for something not actually being used like it’s meant to then it’s ok?
I think you answered your own question.
@@autonomousdefense No there is other uses for rifles than then a service rifle, but i see on their website they sell these in their duty and patrol rifles, i guess if you followed the manufacturers service guide line and changed the O ring at 5k, and not complaining about it at 7k you would not have issues, your lack of maintenance is not JP or the O-rings fault
Glad I saw this video.
Which type of buffer tube are you using? I wonder if using their buffer would yield the same result. Or potentially using a commercial buffer tube vs a Milspec? Idk, just thinking out loud…
Mil-spec. shouldn’t make a difference, like if you’ve got a longer tube your suppose to put a quarter into the back to fill the empty space void.
@@autonomousdefense yeah, I was thinking they were a little wider. I looked it up and they are “a little” wider- meaning 0.03” so not much at all. lol
Thank you that makes my decision easier
So after shooting 5000$ worth of ammo the 150$ buffer spring goes bad lol 😂
What do you use now? Regular spring and buffer?
Yes actually, standard spring and a H2 buffer or appropriate weight based on the build. I actually revisited this rabbit hole of tuning guns based off the buffer system and oh boy. The vltor A5 and BCM MK2 systems might be gigantic crocks of shit. Weirdly enough if you look deep enough into it. It appears flat wire springs and higher mass H3-H4 buffers might actually accomplish the same thing JP, vltor, BCM, and giessele. Claim to do with their proprietary recoil systems. It’s really weird how all of these companies all tried accomplishing the same thing. I think I’ve found more people using springco springs and flatwire springs than people who actually use the vltor.
Eventually I’ll put out another video about It if I find anything of significant value from trying something other than a standard buffer and spring again. I’ve got a feeling it won’t make that much of a difference.
If you don't like something, don't use it. Everyone has their reasons for what equipment they use. It did what it was built to do. Just replace the orings.
Fair assessment. Wish I'd seen this before I forked over $200, 10 mins ago. It's for DPMS 308 system, so not completely the same thing, but still... which I'd come across your vid 10 mins sooner.
6-7k rounds in a couple months with what looks like zero maintenance to your weapon…I wonder why a wear and tear part started to fail on you? 🤔🤣
Sooo... laziness, lack of proper regular inspection & maintenance is the issue, NOT the buffer assembly! For a minute there, i thought it was the buffer assembly that failed, turns out it was just the shooter.
Good information! I thought a out buying one of these.
Geissele H1 buffer & spring is 59 bucks on sale.
Try using neoprene gaskets instead of rubber ??
Maybe consider cleaning and inspecting your rifle from time to time. This is on you, not JP.
Nah. I want something that will last more than 6k rounds. Ofcourse you can fix it, but the less failure points, the better.
How do you think this stacks up against the Armaspec??
Realistically after switching back to a normal H2 and spring I don’t see the point of switching to aftermarket buffers.
I literally just bought so I can have a slick action when i showcase my gun I assembled together.
Anyone who thinks an O-ring is something that NEVER needs to be changed, is not worthy of advising others.
And, I do this weird thing....clean and care for my weapons/tools.
Anyone who skips through a video and makes absolute statements that aren’t even said in the video probably shouldn’t post a comment making themselves look stupid. God forbid anyone actually claims the original design that’s changed very little in the last hundred years is somehow superior than gimmick products nobody fucking uses.
@@autonomousdefenseHave u read these comments? Im not the only one who thinks you're a 🤡
And these are YOUR followers
I am filing a class action suit against Ford. The round things that my truck rides on are wearing out and steel is showing. What kind of bs is that. I call the dealership to complain. The service writer laughed at me. He said they were called tires and that's a wear item and they will need to be replaced periodically. I started whining that I paid $80,000 dollars for the truck. The tires should last for the life of the truck.😢
“Nope. Tires solve a problem that doesn’t exist and I don’t like creating new problems. My wagon wheels are creaky and bumpier but they are cheap and replaceable and what everyone else uses and they work just fine! DO NOT IMPROVE ON SOMETHING THAT ISN’T A real PROBLEM, PERIOD”
I went armaspec gen 4. No orings and a single heavyroll pin.
I put one of those in every one of my builds. What you’re telling me is that you are removing a far superior buffer because you don’t want to do maintenance before 7000 rounds?
Power to you, if you like it and you wanna use it that’s cool. This was a longevity test to see what failed and how it failed and what failed is a problem that doesn’t “need” to exist. I…do….not….like….creating…..problems. If this system was actually DRASTICALLY better than a standard buffer system you could make the arguments it’s worth the problems but it isn’t. Muzzle brakes have a more significant effect on recoil than this, triggers have a more significant effect on how well and how fast you can run the gun, optics have a more significant effect on how fast and effectively you can run the gun. What this thing does is insignificant unless you’re tuning more than just the buffer system and at that point what you do with the gas system, the ammo, the muzzle, the barrel, all of that shit is what is altering your recoil and use of the weapon. Not the buffer.
can you put through 10,000 rounds on one of these using piston impingement m4 uppers. thanks
I’m gonna say no. Springs wear with use and 10k rounds will wear just about anything out. Just keep an eye on wear.
Wow, I understand you had failures with it. Did you ever clean it? Holy crap it looks like it’s been drug through the vacuum cleaner. Man you gotta clean it I’m not saying every time I shoot but you said you’re five 6000 rounds deep. wipe it down and oil it up every two or 3000 round something
Cleaned it multiple times. The issue comes from the o-rings breaking and JP confirmed the round counts for when they break.
@@autonomousdefense when cleaning did you coat the orings with silicone grease?
The buffer retaining pin does fail. So, removing that part, whether you have a JPE system or not is actually improving reliability.
Like I know they can fail, I just haven’t seen it and the beefed up pins exists for a few dollars
I traded the standard pin for an HK416 pin, then swapped the standard spring with a JP polished spring and a Spike's T1 buffer. Costed about 60 all together. Cheaper and it's quieter. @@autonomousdefense
It looks dirty as hell, have you tried cleaning and lubricanting it?
I appreciate your honesty. It sucks when gear you like won't hold up long term
I like this but I also like the Geissele braided buffer spring after this video I think I’m going Geissele!🧠🤯🔫
After as many rounds as you said you had through that weapon, anyone would realize that some wear and tear would occur.
You wanted silent, you got silent.
Everything has trade offs.
You could maintain your weapons from time to time.
$200 is nothing if you’re buying thousands upon thousands of rounds to train.
200$ is something if its less effective than the original system that costs less than half that. Yes, I expected wear and tear eventually. that is literally the point of the test, to see what and how it failed. yknow what you call wasting money on something that objectively brings no benefits and has more cons than it does pros? Stupid, you call it stupid. Its as if people don't understand just because something exists doesn't mean its actually a good design when used practically this is the entire reason people review and test products. Im advocating you spend your money on: Solid optics, Solid triggers, Gas systems, and muzzle devices. Literally all of those items have a more significant effect on how the gun runs and how you run it than this recoil system. Yknow what also help you spend more money on thousands of rounds to train? not spending it on products that fail.
have you tried cleaning your weapon at all ? it doesn't look like it ever had any lube on it . one would think if you were in competition you might do some preventive maintenance on your weapon before you actually go to the competition
It wasn’t being used for competition and competition weapons are an entirely different conversation. Competition guns are meant to be as fast and recoil efficient as possible to the point only specific ammo works and they’re almost unsafe mechanically. This gun was extremely lubed at all time it’s never dry.
Oil the o-rings to help preserve them for longer. Im sure all of the carbon buildup isn't good for the rubber
O-rings stayed oiled the entire time
I really like the point you make about adding another point of failure. Good video!
Thank you for this information. I agree with you, a lot of money for additional failure points does not make sense. I have run many thousands of rounds, full auto and semi, and only had one failure/replacement required (regarding buffers & springs). That failure was a broken buffer retaining pin.
Wow, thanks. I was looking at this system but now I wont.
Idk brother 8 buck and you get 15,000 - 21,000 rounds worth of orings. Pretty minimal maintenance for the quality of the buffer. But for sure if it doesn’t benefit you I understand. But for me I want my BCM to function as close to my honey Badger jn smoothness and so far this seems to be the best option.
Ok but like, and hear me out…….what about less maintenance……with a system that doesn’t have bolt bounce like the honey badger…….and doesn’t break in a specific way that will stop the gun running entirely. Real talk if you want a honey badger and a gun that does honey badger things fucking do it. That is a very specific build that should be run 300blk. But if you want a rifle that can handle extreme abuse with the highest reliability, there is a reason dudes figured all this shit out literally several wars ago.
Maybe it’s just because I’ve shot tens of thousand of rounds through AKM style guns and shotguns and bolt guns because the AR15 is relatively low recoil and smooth already and I genuinely cannot see a difference between this system and the standard in a practical sense. Like sure it feels different, that hasn’t changed anything as far as how the gun shoots. Surefire duel port, absolutely. Silent capture system? No.
You made a good point, this upgrade creates another "failure point" that requires maintenance ..something to consider now because i was thinking about pairing this along with a JP LMOS bcg to work a Geissele SD3G in my mp15
For high use guns prolly not good idea. The rubber o rings lasted longer than i would expect. Low use or hunting rifles probably be fine
But like.......why even use it at that point?
Was it ever claimed in 6000 rounds? And how many rounds one set of fire
Cleaned? yes, it was normally cleaned every 500-1000 rounds fired due to all the suppressor sludge. the sludge itself never caused failure. a casing might have gotten stuck in the chamber if I was using steeled cased at the time as the increased friction of that casing tends to do that if you dont keep it lubricated but that happened maybe 4 times in the 6000-7000 rounds fired. The way I actually figured out the O-ring was causing the failures was repeatedly deep cleaning it in quick succession and the gun failing even while clean.
I own 3 scs’s and love them all
Especially on my suppressed 300blk out
Jus do maintenance on your orings every 5k rounds
Most of y’all will go your entire lifetime and neeever shoot that many rounds anyway lol
The audience my content is geared to are people who train and part of my goals are to get people to train. Equipment of any kind that doesn't hold up to a basic training regimen is of little value. if you want something that looks good and is fragile you should be collecting wrist watches not gun parts. 5000rd is a very low round count.
Faulty O ring destroyed a space shuttle… No matter the mechanical device an O ring will eventually need to be replaced. A 7k run is pretty good imo
“ training “ shooting ALOT. NOT COMBAT. I have 3. I clean my guns all the way. Buffer retainer pin. Depress with dental pick. Unit comes right out. Mine are ARMESPEC. I only with my MSRs. I am not an urban ranger. And yes lower your maintenance with a Giesle.
Love mine
5 to 7 k rounds?
That’s better than I expected
Low expectations
@@autonomousdefense how many rounds do you feel it should last ?
@@Nick-ik7vr 7,000-10,000 if not more. it isnt just about the round count its about what is failing. it should be the physical spring doing all the work that gets noticeably sluggish from being so heavily used rather than something else in the tube stopping the gun.
@@Nick-ik7vr mind you that replacing a normal spring is laughably cheap and laughably easy almost like this shit is the way it is because dudes figured this out a LONG time ago.
You are correct, the JP SCS requires maintenance sooner than a mil spec recoil system (replacing pads and springs) around 5000 rounds..Much like the time frame the military replaces bolts..What I don't agree with is you can use the standard retaining pin, but is much easier using the thicker retaining pin from JP that will work with mill spec..There is no need to remove the buffer retaining pin..That was the weird dude from DeRanged who recommended removing it..The JP SCS is an easy process to replace the rubber pads, springs etc..I have done it many, many times..he JP SCS is well worth the improvement in perceived recoil, smoother carrier action and faster follow up shots compared to the mil spec system..I have never found any degradation in reliability using the JP SCS.... All mechanical things require maintenance and parts replacement..Keep your rifle on a schedule and there will be zero problems..I change my oil every 3500 miles when the factory says 10,000 miles is good enough..My vehicles will run for 350.000 to 400.000 before I go newer..AR rifles are no different..
Actually that removal of the retainer pin came straight from the instructions the product had. That was JPs recommendation. No idea if they’ve changed their recommendations but at the time of purchase that was the case. I understand mechanical things require maintenance but your claims that this recoil system makes any significant differences are false. Its “improvement” is negligible at best. If you want to talk about things that honestly effect how well you run a gun, muzzle devices, triggers, optics, and gas length actually significantly alter recoil. I disagree with the points you’re trying to make. of course mechanical things require maintenance but how something breaks and what it’s being compared to matter.
@@autonomousdefenseJP makes a retainer pin for the SCS that will also work with the mil spec buffer..JP stated the retainer could be used installed or removed with their SCS, so lets get that straight..It was the weird dude from DeRanged who made a big deal about removing it..Gas adjustment/ammunition, muzzle comp, and the lightest reciprocating mass is what creates recoil reduction..The JP SCS absolutely makes a difference in recoil reduction, especially when paired with an adj gas blcok and muzzle comp..I"ll take that Pepsi challenge with my rifles against anybody else's rifle..You even admit it smooths the action, which is part of recoil mitigation..Faster follow up shots..Triggers, optics and even the gas length (to a certain degree) means nothing when mitigating recoil, if the gas is adjustable..For faster follow up shots absolutely..Dwell time or un-lock time is not effected by buffer weight, period..By the way, I have had JP SCS in my rifles for way over a decade and none of them have looked as bad as yours.. You obviously don't lube or service your rifles very well..We all have different opinions about what works and doesn't, so don't be surprised when you get a little push back, nothing personal..The JP SCS is not the end all of recoil systems but it makes enough difference that I use it in all of my competition guns..I don't use them in any self defense rifles of mine..I personally have no use for the A5 system and could never see or feel any benefit to it other than being able to use more weight in the buffer for a lot more expense.. Later!
@@hairydogstail so, because of how heavily the rifle is used it’s constantly lubed up with 10w40 motor oil because it’s thick enough not to burn of especially when ran suppressed. My guns are actually serviced a lot more than they need to be because I like a lot of dudes get bored and take it apart to wipe it down and inspect it while I watch something on RUclips or Netflix, or Amazon. The gun is never dry and it gets heavily used. Mine buffer doesn’t “look bad” it looks like it actually got used it was taken to 5000 rounds and that’s it. I down own multiple in multiple rifles I have the one rifle I use the one rifle and I actually get to see what holds up and what doesn’t because that’s the point of testing. You sure do point out a lot of factors involving recoil that doesn’t actually involve this buffer systems for someone trying to argue it actually matters.
@@autonomousdefenseFirst off, using 10w40 oil is probably what degraded your O rings in the first place..Mine last longer than yours and the weights don't look like crap after that few of rounds..When I was competing for many, many years, I put around 350 rounds a week through my rifle, so I know what wear occurs on the AR platform..I use LSA lube and have found it better than all of the other snake oils people push..I competed in 3 gun, multi gun and long range using my custom AR rifles..I hunt with my 6.5 Grendels and have recently went with 300 black out rifles for my hiking rifles..My entire family competes, hunts and uses the AR platform..I also helped many friends in competition and law enforcement repair and set up their rifles, both suppressed and un-suppressed..The fastest times I have made were with a lighter Sprinco recoil spring and hydralic buffer with controlled gas..My point is the JP SCS does effect recoil and improve faster follow up shots.. Your blanket statement on how the JP SCS is not worth the cost and has no effect on recoil just rubbed me wrong..The recoil system type matched with the other factors absolutely effects recoil mitigation and faster follow up shots..Later!
@@hairydogstail dog, 10w40 a fucking motor oil meant for vehicles operating at heat and moving parts higher than even fully automatic rifles will reach did not degrade the o-ring the o-ring broke exactly where JP said it would which by the way isn’t information the opening tell you.
Armaspec smb is the best buffer alternative
Yeah, after this video I don't even want it anymore lol
Look at the trajectory of your shells when ejected around 2 o’clock tells me your gun is running very gassy probably because of the suppressor putting the JP silence spring on probably increases that and if your spring is too heavy, you can have problems with the bolt locking on the last round it’s all about the fine tune man
Bolts never had problems locking to the rear. What you’re talking about has never been an issue nor is it even the subject of this review or the problems with this product. Regardless of the pressure this system was fired suppressed and unsuppressed and the system failed at the exact round count JP claimed it would which again, they do not openly tell you when you purchase the product.
And it’s not about fine tuning, fine tuning is a gas port drilled properly to allow the gun to cycle and fire reliably. If you have a properly built “duty” style rifle using a BCM upper your failure point shouldn’t be a recoil spring assembly.
Great review. Thank you.
So 7k rounds with out replacing the o rings? Got it.
I think this is fair critique if youre setting up an "end of the world" rifle but replacing O-rings once every FIVE THOUSAND ROUNDS is not exactly what I'd call an un-reliable product
The issue is primarily it failing when you really need it not to. Again since replacing the system with the good ole H2 buff and spring it’s performing just as well if not better because of the extra feedback from vibration and now it has one less failure point. Like there really isn’t any justification for using this product at all. You can still configure competition guns and suppressed rifles extremely well without the use of this system.
In eliminating the buffer retaining pin it removes a failure point that doesnt have a round count, those things can just shit the bed sometimes and when that happens its an equally bad failure. JP's o-ring failure is also 100% preventable via basic maintenence of the system you spent $150 on. Replace o-rings every 5000 rounds, theyre $8. I've never used the sproing to help myself shoot, so I cant comment on that, but it seems its probably not worth maintaing a failure point for.
@@MedicalTape_xX fair point, I’ve never personally seen that retaining pin break and if I’m not mistaken companies sell beefed up versions of that pin.
I'm curious, why would you be concerned about the sound of your buffer making noise when you fire? the sound of the firing would be louder than the buffer tube noise.
Finally somebody else says it.
I used to have 2 scs’s. eventually i had a really overgassed rifle and had to add mass and spring weight to it. $200 later, gun still needs more mass and more spring.
The reduction in noise isnt worth $200, there are better options out there like the geissele super42.
Even then, just deal with the noise, it literally doesnt affect anything but your mind.
Can you say adjustable gas block?
@@danoneal9816 what about pinned gas block rifles?
All im saying is that $200 for an undersprung buffer system which then requires another $100 for an adjustable gas block, isnt worth the money
Id much prefer spending $30 on a tubbs flatwire if i really cant stand the noise.
You can add weights or heavier springs in the JP SCS system just like a mil spec if needed..
@@hairydogstail that’s exactly what made it $200…….
@@eitrisenhancementsllcYou could have purchased an BRD EZTUNE gas tube as an easy fix..Heavier buffers do not fix over gassed systems, they just mask the problem.. Always meter the gas first if possible, if you want the most efficient and reliable rifle possible..
I completely agree. I'm all about perfecting guns but this road leads nowhere in my non professional opinion.
What’s wild to me is how many people in this cancerous comment section buy into the marketing of this product, like the decades of engineering and evolution of the ar15 weren’t infinitely more strict in developing it for war and competition use.
@@autonomousdefense The older you get the more you'll notice it. I'm 35 years old. 👴 I've been playing with guns since I was 13. I'll share with you the lessons I've learned in over 20 years:
>the more money a guy spends the harder he copes (SCAR owners are particularly egregious)
>most gun guys really don't know shit about guns
>a lot of parts, accessories, techniques, and other elements of gun community are nothing but fads
Тhenks.Perfect
it's a tough world when living the pew pew life
I wsh jp would chill back on their prives just a bit. If they would be a bit more than Arma then perfect. Also, get a k1 or k2 fortus castle nut ststem. Youll necer use a standard castle nut plate ever again
They were closer to $300 when I pick one up. It's been sitting on a shelf for over a year. Not worth it, doesn't change much at all.
Which is a shame. as much back and forth as there is in these comments I really do like seeing weapons develop and change hopefully to improve across the board.