Why is The Nekrit Expanse Important?
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- The Nekrit expanse is a natural divide of nebulae and dust clouds as well as vast levels of interference that runs through the Delta Quadrant. Voyager had to pass through it over a month long voyage and once it did, things became a lot more difficult for the intrepid Starfleet ship.
00:00 Introduction
00:41 What is the Nekrit Expanse?
03:12 North of the Expanse
05:51 South of the Expanse
10:12 What does this tell us?
12:02 Outro
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This Video is for critical purposes with commentary. 
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It's interesting that the Delta Quadrant seems divided by at least two huge natural barriers that would make exploration a challenge, even for the Borg. Next to the Nekrit Expanse there was the seemingly endless stretch of starless space, which Voyager encountered in the episode Night. There's also the large, radiation filled nebula they had to pass through in season 4's One. That keeps everything more bottled up compared to the situation in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
I always assumed that the Borg simply weren't interested in the limited technology of the races north of the Expanse and that they could cross it anytime they wanted as Seven mentioned that the Borg came across a Kazon colony but opted to leave them alone as assimilating them would deviate from their goal of perfection.
Of course, they could've gone around the Expanse just to see what races lurked north of it and whether or not they were a threat or could be assimilated by them.
Also worth noting that these barriers are only encountered from the perspective of Voyager's linear path back towards the Federation. It could be that other paths might be more open, but leading them off-course.
@@girlgardeI remember that comment by Seven of Nine, oooof when the Borg consider you a detriment, it's pretty bad 😂.
By any reasonable map, most of the alpha and beta quadrants are still unexplored. The fed, klingons, romulans, and cardassians are just in one little area straddling the two quadrants.
Interesting how you use Voyager's encounters like a core sample in a tree trunk, counting the rings as it were.
Well drafted
This is a better analogy than my "slice" one!
I'm actually studying dendrochronology in grad school now, specifically in bur oak research, and I like the analogy, the nekrit expanse is like a section of rings that are all very small (the 1840's and 1930's come to mind) and hard to distinguish, making charting past them very hard or even impossible.
11:06 That depiction fits pretty well with the theory that "the Founders" of the Gamma Quadrant are the remnants of the species that originally seeded humanoid life across the galaxy.
In my head they'd start from somewhere in the Gamma Quadrant and circle around the galaxy counter-clockwise, seeding every promising planet they find. Not in a rush, careful and coordinated (and possibly even on sub-light ships) it took them ages to come full circle. So areas like the Gamma and Alpha Quadrants would on average have the oldest ancient civilizations, followed by Beta and then Delta, with the youngest somewhere around the Delta/Gamma border. That lines up decently well with what we see, especially considering that there's still a large degree of randomness in that and we only know of very few ancient species, many either regressed or extinct.
Since they took so long, meticulously seeding the entire galaxy, they would come back to their former homeworld overrun by the first stellar empires that arose in the Gamma Quadrant. While billions of years ahead of the newcomers in scientific progress, they were pacifists that couldn't comprehend how someone would want to hurt others... So they insisted on trying to negotiate, while slowly chipped away at - one "minor setback" or "missed opportunity" at a time - until there wasn't much left.
The last survivors (of both the group that stayed and the one that set out across the galaxy) would then come up with a last resort: With their vast genetic and biochemical knowledge, they would modify themselves enough to survive on an otherwise uninhabitable planet; a rock so insignificant and uninteresting, no one would think to ever claim it for themselves, much less explore or colonize it. But the necessary adaptations would be so extreme, they had to basically destabilize their bodies entirely to adapt to the constantly shifting conditions... With time (and nothing much to do) they eventually learned to use this shapeshifting ability to hibernate, linked together as one big mass - every mind preserved, even if they were to suffer damage.
There they stewed in their own thoughts for ages, festering with xenophobia and a sense of entitlement, due to them effectively being the founders of _every_ humanoid civilization... Until finally someone did visit the planet. While vulnerable, their shapeshifting allowed them to sneak individuals of theirs off-planet (their own tech long decayed by now), where they tried to "bring order" to the civilization of these "inexperienced children" using deception and manipulation. But they weren't very experienced yet, so that species soon discovered their machinations - leading into the conflict that would eventually lead them to conquer most of the Gamma Quadrant.
This painted such an incredible picture that ive always had half composed in my head, but this finished it! I absolutely love the idea the founders are the galaxy seeding race (and also somewhat explains why the same actress was used, although obviously not the real intention... Or was it?)
I always had this theory in my head too, but with one major difference.
The link isn't a result of conflict but of loneliness.
The founder's race travelled the galaxy, but found it empty and devoid of life. So they seeded a ton of planets all over the galaxy roughly at the same time, which is why most "current" 24th century civs out there all have roughly the same technological development. In cosmological and evolutional terms, 1000 years, 100 000 years or even 65 000 000 is a small difference, so this even explains ancient civs like the iconians, the voth, etc.
No need for the whole "clockwise" exploration story, as the technological difference between alpha quadrant and delta really isn't big at all, especially considering cosmic time scales. Some species are just as advanced, or more advanced, and older than the federation (voth, Borg, hirogen, vaadwar, etc) so it's not even true that the delta quadrant is "younger". Heck the krenim imperium on its own was, in certain time lines and in certain areas, far more advanced than the federation considering it's time controlling, chronoton based weaponry.
But anyway, lonely founders seeding the galaxy, developing complex biotech and genetic engeneering techniques. They started genetically modifying themselves to be able to have closer intimate contact, and eventually changed themselves into changelings so they could experience life in all its facets (even "learn how to be a rock" or everything else). But even after thousands of years of this this got boring, so they retreated into the great link where time became irrelevant and they became locked in unified pure thought for billions of years, waiting and waiting untill the planets and races they seeded developed. Then after billions of years the woke up and went into the galaxy they created, but quickly found it hostile to their dismay. The young races they seeded were distrustful, and often even outright hostile towards them. So they set out to re-establish control over their creations by posing as gods and creating the dominion. And in the 24th century they had just about managed to establish that control over 1/4 of the galaxy, the gamma quadrant, when the federation encountered them. It's often mentioned in ds9 that the founders and the dominion think long term, and move meticulously and slowly, so it makes sense they would expand their control over the younger races slowly and methodically over thousands of years, genetically modifying these races to make them less hostile, more subservient, and unthreatening to them as they expand. This also explains why the founders are so "arrogant", and look at the "solids" as lesser races, limited and like children that need to be controlled. They're their creations that got out of control...
So yeah I love the idea that the founders are the ancient seeding aliens. But the link in my headcanon is a result of their isolation for billions of years where they waited for all that time for the races they seeded to develop and grow and mature...
But hey, in this many things/explanations/histories are possible! Anyone can think what they want as this was never explained in canon. And it never will be the way "modern trek" is being written...
Who are "they"?
How much of the gamma quadrant the Founders control is something never addressed. They could have a lot of hostile neighbors. At the very least we know there is a Borg transwarp hub. Doubt on the whole they are much bigger than the Federation and most of that seems to be just keeping people inline with the carrot (vorta) and the stick (jem hadar).
Or the Gamma Quadrant founders could be evolved from Liquid Terminators.
The borg had attacked the kazon side of the nekrit expanse at least once. Voyager found a borg body on a planet where the inhabitants had hidden under ground.
7 also mentions that the Borg had met them and found them not worth assimilating.
@@dupersuper1938 *task failed successfully*
Wasn’t that later on?
Seven also told Neelix that the Borg had found a transport ship of his people and that their musculature made them excellent drones.
Neelix's response was a very creeped out "good for you."
Yeah, that was in the late season 3 episode Blood Fever (the one where Torres catches Pon Farr). By then Voyager had been making its way through the Nekrit Expanse.
I just love that Star Trek never had a concept of going up or down in space, it was always 'around'. So much that it was a joke in their second movie, Wrath of Khan.
Going above or below is going around. After all there's no up or down in space lol..
@@Markus117d yes there is up and down, relative to the plane of the galaxy.
Except that they went into the Mutara Nebula *intentionally* . As Spock said "the odds will be even" because the disadvantage of the Enterprise's shields not working would be negated because Reliant's would be inoperable too. Presumably Kirk was counting on either the Enterprise having superior sensors or his crew being better than Khan's.
And then Khan pursued them. We also don't actually know canonically just how big the Mutara Nebula is.
@@Markus117d up and down are always relative. Given an agreed upon fixed point of reference, for example a flat plane directly through the center of the Milky Way, one can *always* use "up" and "down".
Also.... the producers talks about this. They mentioned this was for the benefit of the audience.
The necrit expanse is one of the reasons I actually really like Voyager's 3rd season.
I love that it's this natural barrier that kept them from encountering the Borg despite being deep in their back yard.
5:25 The Swarm and the Sakari weren't the only notable ones using Transporter technology. The Vidiians also had Transporter technology which was, in part, more advanced than even Starfleet.
That's how they managed to extract Neelix lungs out of his body in basically an instant.
They basically had transporters as a sidearm.
@@gatedude07 but not for boarding ships.
@@DavidKnowles0 this could be explained by the fact that their bodies were so weakened by the fage they couldn't handle molecular disassembly and reassembly in a transporter.
Or maybe it's because transporters require the ships shields to be down, which requires you to fire heavy weapons at it risking damage to the crew and the bodies they wanted to harvest in the first place, or even risked destroying the entire ship they were trying to harvest. So they stopped using transporters and started using actual grabbing and boarding and using their hyper advanced medical scanners/transporters/weapons, since this risked less damage to the bodies they were trying to harvest. The vidiians were quite advanced technologically compared to many other races, even on a similar level as the federation in many fields, so it seems logical they'd start using that technological edge to overpower less developed races to harvest them safely, instead of using conventional weapons.
But I admit, it is strange they never seemed to use transporters for boarding.
Now I want a Voth-Borg canon-ish story.
I love how you use so much STO footage in your videos to illustrate your points, it really goes to show how amazing that game actually is 🥰
I loved this video! It reminded me of a non-canon story I read which asserted that the Hirogen were one of the first victims of the Borg. This explained their nomadic lifestyle, their obsession with hunting and being hunted, their technology and their affinity for the relay station network. Maybe even their interest in Wolf 359 in The Killing Game.
I read that story too and it explained a lot of things such as what really happened involving the race that was hiding from the Borg.
I can see it. Something like the T'Kon Empire dies out in the beta to delta side of things, then there'd have been a whole bunch of "We Are the T'KON Empire!" with a whole bunch going, 'No! We are!" "No WE ARE!" and NO! wE ArE!" and it just getting sillier. In the mean time tech from their expansion gets grabbed up and next thing you know you have the Hirogen going, "I'm bored lets go hunt something!"
this was a rather interesting topic for a video and something i hadn't ever thought about. but you're right after thinking about it, Voyager does start off as the most powerful ship in the Delta quardrant and doe slowly become the lleast advanced by the series end.
Be the series end not even the Borg could touch it so not exactly correct
I should point out that asside from the Borg, all of the races Voyager encountered after crossing the expanse were after one or more jumps, the first being shortly after their initial encounter with the Borg. Kes sent Voyager 10 years (probably about 10kly) from a position it took them 3 years to get to; assuming that most of the races on the "south" side have roughly the same warp capabilities as the Federation, that puts them in a COMPLETELY different theater then they were before. Enterprise-D encountered several regions in its travels to the edge of known Federation space that were inhabited entirely by races that were less advanced then them like the Lysians/Satarans.
Isn't your theory already confirmed by the episode from TNG "The Chase" Where the ancients confirmed seeding that part of the milky way? So logically they migrate from that point on wards and is a pretty good unintentional bit of lore from the writers of Voyager.
Sometimes episodes in Star Trek just happen to collide with each other and create lore, I think this is one of those moments.
Since the Borg have been shown in Star Trek Picard to have Sicarian technology, who themselves live on the "northern" side of the expanse, it might be reasonable to assume that the Borg did pass the Nekrit expanse at least once in the late 24th century. Probably, because Borg space is rapidly expanding, they might not even needed to pass it, because they can simply spread around.
But after that i also dont think the Borg have a reason to stay there, as they probably dont have anything else to get there, if im not forgetting something.
The Borg have been shown to be sending scout ships far outside their borders. With Cubes appearing thousands or even tens of thousands of lightyears away from Borg territory.
They probably scouted the area in the past and found nothing there worth assimilating on the short term and then proceeded to expand in another direction.
Even if a single Cube failed to get through, I doubt the Borg as a whole have failed to go through, especially since they could just pass around easily.
Once the Borg assimilate Sicarian technology-well, I don’t think they would just use it for the Queen cell…
The Borg having scarian technology makes no sense given the info on how their technology work given in the episode.
@@DavidKnowles0 “Makes no sense” seems like a pretty good evaluation of that, and many other, scenarios on the show.
@@DavidKnowles0 in the episode they needed the planet to focus and amplify it for the trajector to work. Given what we were shown the borg must have found a way around this problem for usage on a cube. the fact that this device was reserved for only the queen, might give us a hint on what restriction this might result in.
Likely it is the borg cube still not being powerful enough to amplify the trajector, so that it might only be a good use for emergencies.
One of the "issues" with the "history" of the Trek universe is the Voth (a cool idea - dinosaurs actually had evolved intelligence and migrated away from Earth - but that they were so ultra-conservative that their own evolution and cultural development had essentially stalled for ten or fifteen MILLION years . . . ).
And given where Voyager runs into them and their proximity to the Borg's point of origin - the Voth should have nipped the threat of the Borg "in the bud" a thousand years ago.
Indeed.
However, the Voth are extremely self-centered, and believe themselves to be absolutely superior to every other species in the galaxy, and so won't do didley squat against the Borg unless the Borg attack them first, or in case the Voth stand to gain something sgnificant from it.
The Borg, on their part, seem to have decided that the Voth might be to big of a mouthful to go after... for now.
Add to that that the Voth are also supremely slow, as a culture, and straight up might not have noticed that The Borg have moved on from being a minor strange cybernetic species, to a galactic level threat.
Do the Voth have any territory at all?
If 2 of them hadn't been chasing voyager, the entire species would never have been discovered by voyager.
With their sophisticated cloaking device, they could simply ignore any hostile species.
I'm finally watching a video that hasn't been out for a few years. Love your work!
According to Guinan, the Borg have been around for thousands of centuries. I wonder if the Borg periodically get taken down and are forced to reset.
I think the best theory ive heard is the Borg are a cyclical occurrence. Basically when tech takes over a civilization and expands, becomes a massive threat, then gets knocked down a peg (such as the janway virus) become more of a background issue like they were in Vaadwaur time, before rising again.
I think the Borg existed as pacifists for hundreds of thousands of years. But were eventually exposed to a terrible disaster or attack that then forced them to adapt their whole way of life. Maybe the Borg began to believe that the only way for them to ensure their own survival was to simply assimilate all useful forms of life in order to become the perfect organism which is impossible to destroy.
The Borg may just be seekers of immortality, driven to become extremists by an an extreme threat in their distant past.
Interesting. Thanks for the info and video. Look forward to the next one.
Really nice video here honestly. I love the application of theory. And damn, that map near the end *really* puts things into perspective along with the times stated. Well done.
Fascinating explanation. Makes a lot of sense. Well done.
Once again you are Excelsior there Rick excellent pick. This expanse was one I long pondered over. Like the bootes void.
I💜Ric🖖🏻😎
Such a GREAT VIDEO about real classic lore!!!
🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very well informatively executed and explained very nicely as well indeed👌.
Next, the Expanse from Star Trek Enterprise?
great video, though I am curious if the galaxy map is accurate considering all the shortcuts Voyager took, for instance the 9000 light years short cut thanks to Kess?
Brilliant video, as ever.
So many concepts introuduced in the St milky way I wish the would just expand more.
It's like they purposely left this huge plot device with great pitential and never reused it again.
I wonder if counter-spinward would be more apt than south to north, as DS9 seems to indicate Gamma Quadrant civilizations, both ancient/lost and some current, with advancements beyond Federation levels.
Potentially related memory: Professor Michio Kaku, in his book Hyperspace, postulated that a craft could potentially travel against the movement of the galaxy, effectively moving slower, and experience a greater passage of time than at the point of origin if they circled all the way back around.
I’ve always wondered. Wouldn’t it have been easier and quicker to head to the gamma quadrant and use the Bajoran wormhole to get home?
He did a video about this 2 years ago. Look it up 😉
You know he has a video on that where he talks about it. Id check it out if you want to see what he has to say about the topic.
@@yodaslovetoy didn’t know that. Thanks.
@@CorvoFG The short version: It would have taken longer and the most important part is simply THE DOMINION. They don't like intruders and even in the best scenario, they simply would've escorted them straight to the wormhole.
Nope, nearly equidistant from the maps from various sources. So, it would take many decades to get to as well. You can see one on Memory Alpha that shows it.
it is also worth noting that the area north of the expanse was near the edge of the galaxy, while south of it you were moving closer to the core. the closer you get to the core, the density of stars in a given volume of space goes up and the average age of the stars goes down, since star forming regions tend to be located closer to the center of the galaxy than its rim. so the reason there are more 'elder empires' might just be that in regions with a denser population of younger stars, you'd get more habitable worlds and thus more chances for life to emerge. leading to those regions having more civilizations over a given era of time, and those civilizations having access to more of the resources needed to grow and develop.
i find this more probable than putting the area around earth as a center of ancient civilization origin. after all, we don't know where the ancient humanoids came from, just that they seeded the whole galaxy. (and likely with many duplicate copies of the message) and while we've seen the ancient empires of the alpha and beta quadrants with the, Sargonians, iconians and Tkon, it seems likely that other parts of the galaxy also produced empires in the same eras. the delta quadrant's were probably the Voth and Hirogen.
Great video.
Another reason could be conflict as well. A lot of species were not only advanced but in constant warfare. It could be they became advanced due to a cycle of development to survive the next day. While the other side had conflict, but few and mostly contained border skirmishes.
Ugh, that Turei episode comes to mind, watching this
I remember when this first aired and I heard how old the Voth were and thought they could have taken out the borg before they were even an issue.
Hmm… maybe they knocked them back without them knowing it enough times that the Borg still haven’t taken over the galaxy.
That's against the quite isolationistic culture of the Voth. When they don't see you as a thread to their dogma, they don't encounter you. And as they are most likely much more advanced as the borg, a cube cannot even come near one of our old dinosaur friends without being annihilated, if the cubes would even be able to find the city ships.
The Voth are isolationists who aren't interested in the affairs of other races and leave them alone provided they do the same. They may regard other races especially Mammalian races as lower forms of life but they don't bother them unless there's extreme circumstances.
As a result, they didn't care about the Borg's rise provided the Borg didn't attack them. I imagine the Borg DID try a few times to go after the Voth but got crushed each time.
I've always thought that the Hirogen co-opted the relay network, not built it. Iirc, the Iconian empire was around 100,000 years ago. Maybe the relays are from one of their contemporaries that helped destroy them
We dont know for sure. The only source of whom built the relay network was the hirogen themselves, and who knows if they where being honest.
If your map of the Borg transwarp network is accurate, it would explain why they never seem to have encountered the Dominion.
Good video
I really love how you utilize Star Trek Online for using "footage" for these videos!
Honestly, rather than the technological advancement going 'south' to 'north', I think it's more likely that it generally goes from core to edge. After all, the oldest stars in the Milky Way are in and around the galactic core.
The Nekrit expanse probably limited the ability of the older 'coreward' species to expand towards the rim in the Delta Quadrant, while there was no such barrier in the Alpha Quadrant or Beta Quadrants. Which would explain why there's a number of remnants of older civilisations in the 'middles' of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
The notion that all the 'oldest' civilisations were in the Alpha Quadrant, though, is incredibly... Well... 'Human centric'. The Alpha quadrant is where the Federation is and the shows (with the exception, now, of Prodigy) all follow Human members of Starfleet... So of course we've mostly heard of the (ruins of) really old civilisations in Federation territory and less about the (ruins of) really old civilisations outside it... That doesn't mean there aren't any though and we shouldn't assume that.
Did the Hirogen create the communication grid? I may be misremembering, but I was under the impression that they were just using it.
I seem to remember an episode stating that it was hundreds of thousands of years old and the hirogen had found it abandoned and had been using it for only several tens of thousands. "Still spacefaring long before humans but not one of the oldest compared to the voth.
i would love a video where you talk about the territory and the history of the Dominion. Where were the beginnings, how many years have they been around, location in the Gamma Quadrant.
Noone knows details. That is the order of things.
It also holds an ancient sage who guards the greatest and most dangerous hidden knowledge in the known universe
League of Legends lore
So it wouldn't be a good place to open a pub?
Wetherspoons probably would..
@@CorvoFG and call it The Targ and Sehlat
There's also the species that kidnapped the Humans on the planet of the 37's, they aren't around anymore but must have had fearsome travel technology to pull that off.
Were they also the species that was "later" on in Enterprise in the Expanse and had become second class citizens in a Wild West Human civilization?
A possiblity - they weren't _that_ advanced, it's just that they found a few of the Vadwa subspace tunnels and one of them led to Earth… and they didn't have the numbers to just move in wholesale and take Earth even in its then primitive state.
The nekrit expanse was the borderwall separating richville from the khazon ghetto.
Great video as always. One tiny error, you wrote the ancient humanoids were around 4,500,000 years ago, that's 4.5 million. You should have put 4,500,000,000, which is 4.5 billion.
The Borg may have stopped trying to cross the expanse because of the destruction of their ship, but I think it's much more likely that they stopped trying to cross it because they got too entangled in the war with species 8472
So the idea is that the Nekrit Expanse is a bulwark against the diffusion of more advanced technologies from inside the deeper (southern) parts of the galaxy, out into the fringier (more northern) parts of the galaxy
?
Please make a video lore of the Presidio Class Battlecruiser and the other two science and operations variants!
Interesting.
Nice
I’m surprised the Borg sent a whole ship instead of a single scout vessel over the border. Given the whole “minimum required cost” and everything
Also is the vaaduar network just a natural form of Borg transwarp conduits? Maybe
Or: Do the Borg maybe have assimilated the Vaadvuar technology? Could also be possible, but as the Borg will most likely only have assimilated parts of it, they had to find an own way to make it work - which in Borg fashion always means big and cubicle stuff.
I've always suspected that the tunnel network found by the Vaaduar was created by some long forgotten advanced race, which would fit with the pattern pointed out in this vid.
By the way, @Certifiably Ingame, when you wonder what the Nekrit expanse most likely is: The space between the arms of the milky way. That's also a possible reason why the more advanced races are not in the outer rim where Voyager started their journey: That arm of the milky way is the same arm as that of the Iconians, as you showed correctly - so no other advanced race dared to go through the Icodian area to get to some people like the Kazon.
The federation was capable standing up to the borg, at least when they only sent one ship at a time. The federation adapted new technologies and tactics that made it easier and easier when they encountered the borg. Tiny little voyager fared better than the 359 fleet.
I would have liked to see voyager encounter the Fin Del Mar. The race mentioned in the Voyager fanale.
There was another technologically advanced empire on the north side of the Expanse. I can't remember their name, but they were the ones who attacked the Equinox (who went in a different direction to Voyager after being yeeted by the Caretaker), and killed most of the crew.
The Krowtonan Guard unfortunatly we only get that reference to them and know nothing else. Even expanded lore like Star Trek online has avoided using them.
@@smof1 That's them!
I thought ST:O would've expanded on them, given that they expanded and interlinked plot threads from basically all Trek series across decades.
That's... pretty strange?
@@KimPossibleShockwave yeah its one of the things even ST:O hasnt touched. maybe in a future update?
@@smof1 I mean, ST:O has been out for like over ten years now. I find it very odd.
Maybe they don't have the rights to use the name or something, but even then there are ways around that...
North and South in space! ^^
It makes perfect sense to me that the Borg are relative newcomers. They would have likely hit a point after some form of technological singularity when they began to advance exponentially, so they hit a point when advancing was no longer linear. So yeah. Sounds about right to me that they were noobs a millennium ago.
Also, I thought the communication network Voyager found was also discovered, and not created, by the Hirogen? I could be wrong though, I'm not as big into Voyager as I am DS9 or TNG.
It was never clarified if the Hirogen built the network or simply used the net for their own purposes.
Did the Hirogen actually build the communication network....I thought they just claimed it
Both possibilities was stated in Voyager but they never clarified.
Were the bajoirans as advanced as the vaddwaur? I remember a episode where sisko built a solar sail ship and mentioned they were exploring space but i cant remember in what century earth was in.
I believe it was said they were using solar sails to explore space while earth was just sailing the seas, it’s in the episode of DS9 called Explorers
They weren't using warp tech, they occasionally lucked out and caught some sci-fi stuff that made them go at warp somehow without a subspace field or anything...
And judging by the technology inside the solar sail ship, I don't know how the fuck they were getting into orbit. No computers, no engines.
@@bipolarminddroppings It was mentioned in the episode that what Sisko took to be decorations on the old traditional star charts he navigated by were actually the tachyon eddies that launch the light sail into FTL. Apparently enough travelers exploring the Bajoran system hit them to map them not to mention make it back to record them. As I recall something about it only working because of how much surface area such a small/light craft had in the mile wide sail. So it wouldn't weigh much more than an Apollo command midule. It's possible they used rockets or just used rockets to set up a space elevator which is a lot closer to reality IRL than warp speed or even manned solar sails.
@@bipolarminddroppings they’re definitely not the launch vehicles, they’d transfer into them once they’re already in orbit in a more typical fashion. Like a regular old rocket. The solar sail crafts would’ve had to have been built in orbit or on a moon etc - Sisko just had the benefit of cargo bay doors and tractor beams.
Bajor does have inhabitable moons, so it is likely they had more of an incentive early on to develop even basic rocketry and other space technologies.
Voyager's ordeal was basically like throwing you and your car to the ass end of Siberia, just west of the Bering straight, and telling you "cool now get back to France"
Wouldn't call the Hirogen Species is thousands of years old because they have the network of nodes. If I recall correctly, the network itself is far older than the Hirogen, they merely took ownership of it.
There not being many advanced tech cultures in the Delta quadrant makes sense given the Borg are native to the area and have probably assimilated most of the advanced races.
how could you not mention species 7482 in this... oh,... you're saving it for a future episode...
A month of travel is a few hundred light-years at the most for Voyager.
That struck me as odd too. If Voyager only takes a month to go "several thousand" light years, they could get back to the other end of the Milky Way (which after all is only 100,000 ly across) in 6 years at most, right?
Rick do an episode on the "Think Tank" from Voyager, more importantly how they also cured the verdean feige 🤨
just wondering if you have/will make a video about the galactic center?
Weird that the Voth have been around that long and yet barely surpass Federation technology. They must learn really, really slowly.
Consider their way of life. They intentionally oppose progressionism and silence those within their civilization who seek truth and change. That is the opposite of evolution - it's stagnation. Science in our world has been held back for a very long time due to the restrictive assumptions of people who refused to believe certain things could be possible. The more open-minded we've become in recent years (often people inspired by science fiction and other creative expressions) the more quickly our understanding of the universe has leap-frogged. 'This is the way it is' is always going to fall behind 'What if...?' in the eternal scale of advancement.
@@heartoffire5902 I would say the opposite has happened today. People haven't been as close-minded as they are today since the dark ages. Technology has also regressed by the way.. Look up how engineering and rocket science has regressed and some of the technologies actually lost. For example, the rockets for the Apollo program cannot be built anymore, no one is smart enough or educated enough to build them. Nasa admitted to this.
Can you do an index video on the Protoss from Starcraft?
I don't think I've really thought about how areas of the Delta Quadrant compare overall to the rest of the Trek universe. This edge of the Delta Quadrant kinda makes me think of the "backwater" outer rim of the Star Wars galaxy. Thank you for another interesting episode!
God be with you out there everybody! ✝️ :)
OMG I always thought they were saying "Necrid"
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There are a couple of real life explanation to this.
First is simply that the star systems and the planets formed earlier are closer to the center of the Galaxy, hence life in this sector of the Galaxy has a chance to be much older.
There's also something of an habitable zone in the Galaxy, much like in solar systems. Too close and you get bombarded with radiations but too far and you'll lack the building blocks for life and for building an advanced civilization.
Earth enjoy both, we're in the oldest part of the habitable zone of our Galaxy, we really have a shot at becoming the Federation or... It's mirror counterpart that gets toppled.
Don't forget the people with the advanced holographic tech and slip stream.
There's a gap in at least one spiral arm. The Terran Empire was hemmed in by it. The idea that you don't want to expand past your supply lines. Two hundred years at warp 9 across a void to be met with what on the other side?
Unmanned probes?
Terran Empire didn't have many resources to spare for recon. Making it to the centre of the galaxy...
China could invade Australia but it is a long trip, they will see you coming and supply lines would be a issue.
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The comm beacon network may well not be of Hirogen origin, even though they were shown taking advantage of it.
Maybe the Nekrit Expanse was created to block the Borg by some type of confederacy, but all vanished or got out of scene, like the Vaadwaur.
ah the Kazon, Welfare Klingons of the Delta Quadrant.
I feel like navigation should not have been as major in issue as you make it sound. The reason is that starships are equipped with a Starship Inertial Navigation System, which will allow the ship to keep track of its own position and direction without any external references at all. Modern-day submarines have been using us for over half-a-century (called Submarine Internal Navigational System), and airliners have been using this for over a quarter of a century (known as their Inertial Reference System). The only information they really should have needed to keep going in the right direction is simply which direction they wanted to go after they avoided all the storms that were in their way.
Interesting thought, but with the use of inertial dampers, the tech may not be viable. The same inertia that allows such guidance to work would result in several kilograms of greasy smears on each bulkhead behind each crewman.
Even given that, inertial guidance systems have uncertainties that compound with distance travelled.
I agree though, great idea to consider, and definitely worth a line or two of dialogue to discuss and dismiss (if plot requires lack of navigational clarity).
@@christophermillett7386 the technical manuals from the Original Series and from The Next Generation both included semi detailed explanations of the SINS.
@@AlexandarHullRichter fair enough. Point conceded.
3:44 The Kazon are definitely _not_ the Pakleds!
7:09 Krenim Techlevel: 5-17 (varies by time of the day)
Not anymore, as in the end there will be no time ship. The last scenes you saw of Annorax with his wife were 200 years BEFORE the happenings of Voyager. Don't forget, that he travelled with his ship from 2170 till 2370 around to delete stuff out of the history. And in the end it seems as if he never finished his timeship before he died after a happy life with his wife and family. The Krenim Voyager therefore encountered after they destroyed the time ship could be the great great grandson of Annorax ;)
Or, as Robbie McNeill and Garrett Wang started calling it on the Delta Flyers podcast, the Nekkid Expanse.
i thought the nekritt expanse was the nebula which caused everyone to get headaches and die until around the 2 min mark lol.
Kazon watching this are shook bro.
The Borg would stand no chance against the Voth and I’m sure they had their fun with them in the past.
True, the borg wouldn't stand a chance, but the Voth probably know that an assimilated ship would be their end.
Why woulnt they stand a chance? the Voth, if pressed to by the Borg would out numbered and surrounded, why wouldnt they be crushed? We dont know how long ago Voth technology peaked or the rate ar which they continue to advance. 20 million years is a long time to have equivalent technology, but advancement is a curve and in that time the Voth could have conquered the galaxy several times over., but they didnt, they have more advanced tech than the Federation but it is still contemporaneous to it. The Borg would have caught up in that time no doubt.
@@Elessar2417 The borg have nothing that even remotely compares to the technology of the Voth.
The Sikarians represent a rather advanced race 'north' of the Nekrit Expanse. Advanced enough to talk down to the Voyager folk. Albeit, Voyager was interesting to them, and that the surrounding region was full of unremarkable civs probably did much to contribute to the Sikarian arrogance.
The Borg had little to find north of the Nekrit Expanse to make it worth their time, except for the Sikarians, or aspects of the Vidiians. They might well have had scouts arrive in the region, and quickly concluded that there was little reason to return any time soon as the region was technologically poor and uninteresting. The Sikarians having their own sort of tech 'Prime Directive' making them unwilling to spread their tech, or to build an empire making them easily missed.
As you point out as well, Voyager only took a slice, indeed, more accurately, a dotted and dashed line through the galaxy. They could have easily missed a LOT of stuff that was only a sector or so away from their path. So, while Voyagers journey was of incalculable value, the idea that we really know the Delta Quadrant overstates the matter. These barriers and the sprawling Borg and Hirogen perhaps define the Delta Quadrant more than Voyager's discoveries. Many advanced civilizations might have been consumed by the Borg who specifically prey on them, which might explain why there seems to be a dearth. The Borg being either ignorant of the presence of certain advanced, but low key, civs, or afraid to face them lest they prove TOO advanced or god-like such as the Metrons in the Federation's own neighborhood.
I've always hypothesized that the Borg have been burned by a Metron type race before, and so if a cube should suddenly be defeated, the collective doesn't just send dozen more to push the issue without more info. Which is why the Borg didn't seen throw a lot of effort at the Federation, even though that would probably have worked just fine.
In ENTERPRISE, we see that MOST spacefaring civs are more advanced, their people more tech adept than that of United Earth. Not a surprise, but even so, local space didn't have much to recommend it, the most advanced known power being the Vulcans, and a hidden shadow empire of the Romulans. There was arguably an informal relation of peace and cooperation among various unaligned civs which probably helped the development of the Federation, but really, an advanced alien race sending a starship through the region at the time just before Enterprise would have seen little to be remarkable. A small 'empire' of somewhat militant intellectuals in the form of Vulcans, their rival cousins the Romulans, if such alien explorers stumbled upon them, and an expanding warrior empire of Klingons in the distance. (and a weird region of space with strange anomalies and useful underspace like shortcuts and mean people with religious or extremist attitudes such as the Xindi.)
It would have looked rather 'Delta Quadrant-like', just a few centuries earlier than Voyager's journey. Given much the same creators, maybe that's not surprising.
Do you fly with a fleet on STO?
looks like the Nekrit expanse should be a true breeding ground for various crystalline and energy type beings...
that is, species far distant from the Humanoid and reptiloid dominated center...
my guess is such places should be filled with the most varied & unique forms of life in the galaxy, ones we should be marginally only able to recognize & communicate with...
unique but dangerous regions
I pose a new question, why didn't voyager just go outside the galactic plane in order to chart a more less cluttered course back to the alpha quadrant?
Since that’s 1000 LY thick, that’s at least an extra year of travel if not an extra two years. Sure some diversions within the plane added that much time but they would’ve also missed every shortcut they found. The main limit to their travel time was engine speed, after all, not space geography.
Ehm, Nooh, No! The ships at 5:45 is Goa'uld Ha'tak-y-attacky ships!
Is there an official, or at least logically constructed, map showing how far along Voyager was in its journey from one season to another?
Not an official one, but I had to draw up a rough estimate based on putting together fan speculation and official works for my Video on "Why did Voyager not use the Wormhole?"
Maybe the Hurk that attacked the Klingons were actually the Hirogens.
The Hur'q came from the Gamma Quadrant
Its often asked why did hey not go through the gamma quadrnt and try for the wormhole. Take them right back toe DS9 ware they started.
Kazon are what happens when klingons mate with the pakled.
I think youre missing a Zero on the Preservers estimated time line? Billions not millions
Why didn’t they just go over it? It looks like it doesn’t go very far”up” in the screen shot.
It would be better if you took different clips from different angles and faded them than trying to rotate the view too fast with your mouse.
While I don't disagree with your hypothesis, you made 2 errors with your evidence. The voth are at least semi nomadic and while believed to be from earth, as the voyager episode they appear in suggests but we don't know for certain and we don't know if they developed their own tech. As for the hirogen, I don't think there is any evidence that the com network was built by them. They could simply being using it the way voyager was attempting.