For more information check these links: www.armadainternational.com/category/categories/technology/electronic-warfare/ew-in-depth-articles/ www.thedefencehorizon.org/post/electromagnetic-manoeuvre twitter.com/tomwithington
When I was in the US Army I was in an OpFor unit (Red Team) and there was an engagement against “Task Force XXI” a collection of Blue Force units that used advanced technology. They were networked with their radios frequency hopping, encrypted and burst transmission. We used RF direction finders to triangulate their command post and attack them forcing them to displace. They were betrayed by their own communications system. We couldn’t eavesdrop but we could find them as there was nothing else around. We didn’t use jamming units and we actually would do minimal communication after crossing the Line of Departure. Everything was done by SOPs and Frag Orders.
This is quite interesting point about the western vs eastern perception of maskirovka. I work in the highly multinational company, but in principal USA/UK based, and it is very often very amusing and dissapointing in the same time for us, Poles, to see how our British and American colleagues do not understand this subtle game of hiding facts behind other facts, half - truths and such 😅 Often we try to see the second bottom of their actions, but obviously there is none, they just don't understand the concept of saying one thing and meaning the other, which is totally basic social skill in the eastern part of the Europe.
Perun YT channel has a whole slideshow (1hour talk, but he is the power point guy) about Russian mistruths endemic to the Russian way of war. Anyway thanks to Military History not Vizualised for having another subject matter expert present to us.
The problem with a society where it is standard operating practice to use deception everywhere other than your own family is that nobody really knows what is actually happening outside of the range of their own eyes and ears. The entire Russian campaign seems to a victim of this sort of internal habitual maskirovka, where Putin thought that most Ukrainians would welcome his troops, and that any armed resistance would be easily defeated in a few days. Anybody who told him otherwise risked their career, so the true situation was unknown until after the invasion. There's lots of deception in Western politics, which is why governments are so keenly interested in controlling the Internet by proxy, via threats to arrest leaders of corporations that don't censor their critics.
@@martinschneider7130 True, but my problem is that the screen is too sensitive to the presence of my hand and annoys me by typing rubbish. But yes, I believe it is Chinese and like most smartphones it has several integrated sensors.
Looking at the room your guest speaker is in I see a banjo and I'm reminded of a statement that someone once made that everything's chill and it's fun and games until Steve Martin breaks out the banjo!!! 🤠👍
Electromagnetic spectrum operations (EMSO) is the defining technology of combined arms warfare. Historiography begins with Guglielmo Marconi developing his sets in conjuction with Royal Navy Adm. Henry Jackson. Your question about EMP needs a follow-up about high power microwave (HPM) weapons now in production. Thanks for bringing Tom on your podcast, he's one of my favorite Old Crows.
Thank you! Super interesting and relevant topic! Would love to see a deeper dive into the means and practical application of EW on the visualized chanel
With the advent of tactical drones, there will be tactical EW. In some ways this has always existed in the Air Domain - aircraft have had radar and counter-measures since sometime in WWII. Now that use of the Air Domain has become common at tactical levels, there will be EW at those levels. To a lesser extent EW will be used at tactical levels for Land Domain purposes. A decade or more ago, a small military unit existed to test Land Domain and, to a lesser extent, Air Domain, military-grade equipment use in the EM spectrum using commercial-grade equipment. One interesting result was the discovery that it is not necessary to crack spread-spectrum, encrypted radio systems to achieve an effect. The small team were able to identify and precisely locate the latest secure radio systems used by special operators. They literally could point to three operators behind a wall, something that would allow precise kinetic attack.
21:00 While I will agree that it will not cause DIRECT physical damage the fact is that all national electric grids are unsheilded and many of the large transmission transformers will catch fire causing massive physical damage.
Many attacks against C2 systems take advantage of the protocol infrastructure that enables mesh networks and distributed communication. Mesh networks, particularly with moving nodes (e.g. AFVs or individual soldier) have to constantly update the paths to each other and upper levels of command. It's nearly impossible to perform those updates with encrypted communication, so an adversary monitoring the networks can insert false updates that cause the network to fail, either because packets are routed incorrectly or because the update process consumes all of the bandwidth of the radios. The canonical example of this is sending WiFi nodes a disconnect message purportedly from the AP.
Maskirovka is attainable through cyber means. I developed a scenario and was the red team for a tabletop exercise in which a Navy Expeditionary Force commander surprised us by deciding to abandon the mission when he deemed his classified information networks could not be trusted. The information failures were achieved through relatively simple cyber means.
There is an entire area of EW that this video failed to cover - navigation warfare. Navigation systems such as GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou, and Galileo. These are global systems, in addition there are regional satellite navigation systems owned by Japan (QZSS) and India (IRNSS). All of these allow precise Position, Navigation, and Timing which are quite necessary for missiles, conventional artillery, C2, drones, and critical infrastructure. Two types of attacks are spoofing drones to cause them to crash or discontinue their missions and affecting the timing of critical infrastructure control systems. The latter may not seem like warfare, but modern warfare is dependent on electricity and the electric infrastructure is dependent on precise timing.
@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 Well I of course associate those instruments with American roots or bluegrass music. But those genres derived from the music of the hill country immigrants from Northern England, Scotland and Ireland.
The high altitude detonation will produce an EM pulse to destroy electronics and hamper communications. However I believe that would be classified as nuclear/strategic warfare because of the agreed response of nuclear nations. Any nation attacked in this way would perceive it as a nuclear war and respond accordingly. Also I dont know how a countries “decision makers” got muddled up with the word “moral” without a negative qualifier. Thank you for the video! I found it very interesting!
Whatever is classified as a nuclear attack depends on what one hopes to achieve in response by condemning it as such. Definitely anything such would be considered escalatory as long as there is any will on the opposing side left.
Point of interest here, the word "electromagnetic spectrum" keeps being tossed around a lot, but what part(s) of EW takes place OUTside the radio frequencies?
Thermal and infrared masking and detection could be considered to fall under the EW spectrum. Indeed responsibility for managing Thermal mitigation measures on military vehicles, ships and airplanes would typically be handled by EW personnel for example.
You could do things like shine lasers into cameras and stuff, to either temporarily blind them or permanently damage sensors. It's possible we will see that more and more against drones to deny them using cameras to target positions.
To understand maskirovka mindset is quite easy. West operates on - truth = competence= progress = prosperity. And liying = incompetence = loss of money = despair = unacceptable. Russia operates on -Scary lies= Fear= power= money= prosperity for top 1%. You might ask - But lying = incompetence? Why they dont just collapse? Because you cant fail when you have endless scared thru "maskirovka" europeans who pay oil money and are afraid of escalation and pay even more for oil because of it. Just lie more and get more money to complete the circuit. So basically your lie is just an instrument and trick is that you decouple yourself from any morality and dont invest into your lie in order to jump from lie to lie. Once you invest into your lie and start living in a system where truth matters you lost this game of "Maskirovka" To simplify - construct a system where lying is beneficial. And create lying money printing feedback loops. While others struggle to compete with you in systems where truth and competence matters. Because your money and "truth money" are the same money.
So if I write a letter - does that also count as using the em spectrum because my pen interacts with the paper thought electromagnetic field interactions? 😅 My point being - the definition is arbitrarily broad.
the russians must have better EW systems than the usa/west if so, how much further ahead is the russian than the usa/west whether the information available online is correct so it's not just drones that Russia interferes with Ukraine has big problems with Storm Shadow missiles that cost millions of dollars Russia also manages to disrupt these, so they basically fall down before they reach the target, this also applies to GMLRS missiles, etc. is the usa/west so far behind the russians when it comes to EW warfare one might think that such complex and advanced systems as Storm Shadow should be immune to Russian EW systems, but this is clearly not the case if then Storm Shadow makes it to the target, then the next problem comes and that is that the Russians manage to shoot down most of them before they reach the target with their s400 system here the usa/west has a big problem to solve now Storm Shadow should be stealth but not enough for the s400 system more Storm Shadows have been shot down by s400s than those who hit the target if RUSI is to be believed and how many has missed the target due to Russian EW jamming🤔 were the west ignorant of Russian EW capability and ignorant of the s400 system's capabilities when they developed The Storm Shadow system
Sure, stormshadow is just falling out of the sky. That 350 million dollar submarine and irreplacbale landingship just happend to be there by coincedence im sure lmao. Ladys and gentelman this is missinformation, the US most defenatly is not outtechrd by a failed state with a GDP comparbale to New York.
@@thurbine2411 there is, of course, such a doctrine (probably a number of them), it just isn't called "maskirovka" in russian. Such use of the word is, i guess, possible as a metaphore or a joke, but not as an official or even semi-official use
On Maskirovka 'маскировка', this is very elastic term. Its original use and meaning is purely military oriented - camouflage and deception activities, in order to confuse enemy and not reveal whatever needs to be concealed. It can concern hiding both weak or also strong aspects, also pretending to have a capability actually not available. Later on it evolved into broader meaning, outside the military area. What is more important in russian context is actually the concept of telling truth. Which truth and to whom.. In russian language there are several distinct words concerning lying and different ways of lying are regarded as necessary and thus not shameful. The oversimplified version would be, that outside the family and close friends the basic mode tends to be lying, occasionally laced by some portion of truth. Those who live in such a society tend to be natural masters of wide variety of deception.
I'm a little bit disappointed. Instead of philosophical reasoning I did expect some answers on the vulnerability of the Russian and Ukrainian data-links in the current War and things like jam proof gps or glonass targeting.
For more information check these links:
www.armadainternational.com/category/categories/technology/electronic-warfare/ew-in-depth-articles/
www.thedefencehorizon.org/post/electromagnetic-manoeuvre
twitter.com/tomwithington
If you can feel the radio spectrum, you're standing WAY too close to a high-power transmitter.
That isn’t the spectrum that is the cancer growing inside you 🤪
no cancer, you're just getting heated up a bit.
Or it's a nice sunny day at the beach.
That's how they discovered microwave ovens! It was an extraordinarily dangerous accident.
THIS. Lmao
As a telecomm guy, if you can physically feel the radio, you're getting cooked a little.
No cancer though, just heat.
When I was in the US Army I was in an OpFor unit (Red Team) and there was an engagement against “Task Force XXI” a collection of Blue Force units that used advanced technology. They were networked with their radios frequency hopping, encrypted and burst transmission. We used RF direction finders to triangulate their command post and attack them forcing them to displace. They were betrayed by their own communications system. We couldn’t eavesdrop but we could find them as there was nothing else around. We didn’t use jamming units and we actually would do minimal communication after crossing the Line of Departure. Everything was done by SOPs and Frag Orders.
This is quite interesting point about the western vs eastern perception of maskirovka. I work in the highly multinational company, but in principal USA/UK based, and it is very often very amusing and dissapointing in the same time for us, Poles, to see how our British and American colleagues do not understand this subtle game of hiding facts behind other facts, half - truths and such 😅 Often we try to see the second bottom of their actions, but obviously there is none, they just don't understand the concept of saying one thing and meaning the other, which is totally basic social skill in the eastern part of the Europe.
Perun YT channel has a whole slideshow (1hour talk, but he is the power point guy) about Russian mistruths endemic to the Russian way of war. Anyway thanks to Military History not Vizualised for having another subject matter expert present to us.
Problem here, my phone won't let me say what happens.
The problem with a society where it is standard operating practice to use deception everywhere other than your own family is that nobody really knows what is actually happening outside of the range of their own eyes and ears. The entire Russian campaign seems to a victim of this sort of internal habitual maskirovka, where Putin thought that most Ukrainians would welcome his troops, and that any armed resistance would be easily defeated in a few days. Anybody who told him otherwise risked their career, so the true situation was unknown until after the invasion.
There's lots of deception in Western politics, which is why governments are so keenly interested in controlling the Internet by proxy, via threats to arrest leaders of corporations that don't censor their critics.
@@20chocsadayChinese Phone with integrated censor?
@@martinschneider7130 True, but my problem is that the screen is too sensitive to the presence of my hand and annoys me by typing rubbish.
But yes, I believe it is Chinese and like most smartphones it has several integrated sensors.
Looking at the room your guest speaker is in I see a banjo and I'm reminded of a statement that someone once made that everything's chill and it's fun and games until Steve Martin breaks out the banjo!!! 🤠👍
Electromagnetic spectrum operations (EMSO) is the defining technology of combined arms warfare. Historiography begins with Guglielmo Marconi developing his sets in conjuction with Royal Navy Adm. Henry Jackson. Your question about EMP needs a follow-up about high power microwave (HPM) weapons now in production. Thanks for bringing Tom on your podcast, he's one of my favorite Old Crows.
HPM on aircraft or drones can cause havoc with ground-based computer systems.
It actually started with Nicola Tesla…the genius who was born 200 years too early.
Thank you! Super interesting and relevant topic! Would love to see a deeper dive into the means and practical application of EW on the visualized chanel
Why are you asking questions from a Bond villan? Also, where is his white cat?
But he has a banjo for dueling.
With the advent of tactical drones, there will be tactical EW. In some ways this has always existed in the Air Domain - aircraft have had radar and counter-measures since sometime in WWII. Now that use of the Air Domain has become common at tactical levels, there will be EW at those levels. To a lesser extent EW will be used at tactical levels for Land Domain purposes. A decade or more ago, a small military unit existed to test Land Domain and, to a lesser extent, Air Domain, military-grade equipment use in the EM spectrum using commercial-grade equipment. One interesting result was the discovery that it is not necessary to crack spread-spectrum, encrypted radio systems to achieve an effect. The small team were able to identify and precisely locate the latest secure radio systems used by special operators. They literally could point to three operators behind a wall, something that would allow precise kinetic attack.
EW is about the systems and emitters...Cyber is about the information on those signals and systems
I can respect a man that has a barbell in the background AND knows what he's talking about.
I see the audible spectrum is involved in warfare as well. There's a banjo back there!
21:00 While I will agree that it will not cause DIRECT physical damage the fact is that all national electric grids are unsheilded and many of the large transmission transformers will catch fire causing massive physical damage.
🏆🙏🇺🇲🤗
Thank you for sharing
Many attacks against C2 systems take advantage of the protocol infrastructure that enables mesh networks and distributed communication. Mesh networks, particularly with moving nodes (e.g. AFVs or individual soldier) have to constantly update the paths to each other and upper levels of command. It's nearly impossible to perform those updates with encrypted communication, so an adversary monitoring the networks can insert false updates that cause the network to fail, either because packets are routed incorrectly or because the update process consumes all of the bandwidth of the radios. The canonical example of this is sending WiFi nodes a disconnect message purportedly from the AP.
Maskirovka is attainable through cyber means. I developed a scenario and was the red team for a tabletop exercise in which a Navy Expeditionary Force commander surprised us by deciding to abandon the mission when he deemed his classified information networks could not be trusted. The information failures were achieved through relatively simple cyber means.
There is an entire area of EW that this video failed to cover - navigation warfare. Navigation systems such as GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou, and Galileo. These are global systems, in addition there are regional satellite navigation systems owned by Japan (QZSS) and India (IRNSS). All of these allow precise Position, Navigation, and Timing which are quite necessary for missiles, conventional artillery, C2, drones, and critical infrastructure. Two types of attacks are spoofing drones to cause them to crash or discontinue their missions and affecting the timing of critical infrastructure control systems. The latter may not seem like warfare, but modern warfare is dependent on electricity and the electric infrastructure is dependent on precise timing.
Thank you for the great informations very well educated
Are there any points to be made about non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse weapons recently?
That's why I'm skeptical about an fully unmanned solution
Wood slat armour barriers are effective aganist ariel projectiles 😮
I am on autism spectrum.
Hi on autism spectrum.
I am ???¿¿¿ :D
@@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding Chica chica Hakuna matata
So one doesn’t usually associate a 5-string banjo and what looks like a resonator guitar with a British accent.
Also that nice gym equipment to the right.
North West of England here, the wife's banjo is in the back bedroom.
@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 Well I of course associate those instruments with American roots or bluegrass music. But those genres derived from the music of the hill country immigrants from Northern England, Scotland and Ireland.
The high altitude detonation will produce an EM pulse to destroy electronics and hamper communications. However I believe that would be classified as nuclear/strategic warfare because of the agreed response of nuclear nations. Any nation attacked in this way would perceive it as a nuclear war and respond accordingly.
Also I dont know how a countries “decision makers” got muddled up with the word “moral” without a negative qualifier.
Thank you for the video! I found it very interesting!
Whatever is classified as a nuclear attack depends on what one hopes to achieve in response by condemning it as such. Definitely anything such would be considered escalatory as long as there is any will on the opposing side left.
I am afraid of banjos. Good episode except the banjo.
A dedicated EMP would definitely be an example of Electronic Attack (EA).
Point of interest here, the word "electromagnetic spectrum" keeps being tossed around a lot, but what part(s) of EW takes place OUTside the radio frequencies?
Thermal and infrared masking and detection could be considered to fall under the EW spectrum. Indeed responsibility for managing Thermal mitigation measures on military vehicles, ships and airplanes would typically be handled by EW personnel for example.
You could do things like shine lasers into cameras and stuff, to either temporarily blind them or permanently damage sensors. It's possible we will see that more and more against drones to deny them using cameras to target positions.
This guy agrees with what we're saying
Irrespective of the country, I suspect EW would be a GREAT career path for young military officers.
More of a good career for electrical engineering
To understand maskirovka mindset is quite easy.
West operates on - truth = competence= progress = prosperity. And liying = incompetence = loss of money = despair = unacceptable.
Russia operates on -Scary lies= Fear= power= money= prosperity for top 1%.
You might ask - But lying = incompetence? Why they dont just collapse?
Because you cant fail when you have endless scared thru "maskirovka" europeans who pay oil money and are afraid of escalation and pay even more for oil because of it. Just lie more and get more money to complete the circuit.
So basically your lie is just an instrument and trick is that you decouple yourself from any morality and dont invest into your lie in order to jump from lie to lie. Once you invest into your lie and start living in a system where truth matters you lost this game of "Maskirovka"
To simplify - construct a system where lying is beneficial. And create lying money printing feedback loops. While others struggle to compete with you in systems where truth and competence matters. Because your money and "truth money" are the same money.
So if I write a letter - does that also count as using the em spectrum because my pen interacts with the paper thought electromagnetic field interactions? 😅
My point being - the definition is arbitrarily broad.
I was practicing drone piloting yesterday and I lost signal so it crashed and I had to comb the desert looking for it.
the russians must have better EW systems than the usa/west
if so, how much further ahead is the russian than the usa/west
whether the information available online is correct
so it's not just drones that Russia interferes with
Ukraine has big problems with Storm Shadow missiles that cost millions of dollars
Russia also manages to disrupt these, so they basically fall down before they reach the target, this also applies to GMLRS missiles, etc.
is the usa/west so far behind the russians when it comes to EW warfare
one might think that such complex and advanced systems as Storm Shadow should be immune to Russian EW systems, but this is clearly not the case
if then Storm Shadow makes it to the target, then the next problem comes and that is that the Russians manage to shoot down most of them before they reach the target with their s400 system
here the usa/west has a big problem to solve
now Storm Shadow should be stealth but not enough for the s400 system
more Storm Shadows have been shot down by s400s than those who hit the target if RUSI is to be believed
and how many has missed the target due to Russian EW jamming🤔
were the west ignorant of Russian EW capability and ignorant of the s400 system's capabilities when they developed The Storm Shadow system
Sure, stormshadow is just falling out of the sky. That 350 million dollar submarine and irreplacbale landingship just happend to be there by coincedence im sure lmao.
Ladys and gentelman this is missinformation, the US most defenatly is not outtechrd by a failed state with a GDP comparbale to New York.
do you even lift bro
"Maskirovka" literally means "Masking". Nothing that special.
Still it has some more meaning in the doctrine of Maskirovka than just the literal word
@@thurbine2411 there is, of course, such a doctrine (probably a number of them), it just isn't called "maskirovka" in russian. Such use of the word is, i guess, possible as a metaphore or a joke, but not as an official or even semi-official use
Can u do a video on western combate in ww1
And maybe some on combate in Asia and the Pacific in ww1 and 2...
u
On Maskirovka 'маскировка', this is very elastic term. Its original use and meaning is purely military oriented - camouflage and deception activities, in order to confuse enemy and not reveal whatever needs to be concealed. It can concern hiding both weak or also strong aspects, also pretending to have a capability actually not available. Later on it evolved into broader meaning, outside the military area. What is more important in russian context is actually the concept of telling truth. Which truth and to whom.. In russian language there are several distinct words concerning lying and different ways of lying are regarded as necessary and thus not shameful. The oversimplified version would be, that outside the family and close friends the basic mode tends to be lying, occasionally laced by some portion of truth. Those who live in such a society tend to be natural masters of wide variety of deception.
I'm a little bit disappointed. Instead of philosophical reasoning I did expect some answers on the vulnerability of the Russian and Ukrainian data-links in the current War and things like jam proof gps or glonass targeting.
Soon.
Boo
1st
Odd 🙄
cringe
Here's your participation trophy.
Don't spend the self-esteem all in one place.
@@GBR9794 Thank you
Sorry... but over 7 minutes in and still discusses definitions .. shutting down and dislike