Ukraine War: Wrong Lessons

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  • Опубликовано: 22 дек 2024

Комментарии • 2 тыс.

  • @MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized
    @MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized  2 года назад +85

    Be sure to check out my current T-Shirt campaign with the Cat Person Tiger & Panther and some other limited editions: everpress.com/mhv

    • @typxxilps
      @typxxilps 2 года назад +3

      basically: every lesson can be wrong cause it depends - for example the phone on the battlefield question
      The Ukraine were able to use and enable the western media and yt world to improve the boost / support inside western populations which has become important

    • @russwoodward8251
      @russwoodward8251 2 года назад +1

      A great discussion, very timely. Thanks, I really like it when 2 creators I subscribe to, share a topic. Really great.

    • @IamOutOfNames
      @IamOutOfNames 2 года назад +3

      You keep uploading right when it's my bedtime. Why you keep doing this to me?

    • @SirAntoniousBlock
      @SirAntoniousBlock 2 года назад

      Jamming 30:18 Haven't you seen the videos of Ukrainians capturing enemy drones with jamming antenna?

    • @readhistory2023
      @readhistory2023 2 года назад

      The US Navy in conjunction with DoD came up with hand held EMP guns in order to take out Russian subs in Puget Sound. The Russian liked to trail the Trident back to their base and because they were were nuclear subs the US could only watch. Sinking a nuclear sub in the 3rd highest trafficked sea lane/fishing grounds in the US would be counter productive to the US economy so they came up with the Emp gun as teh solution to take out the Russian subs. I have no idea if it was every used for that function. The EMP handgun's advantage over a normal EMP was that it's EMP was semi-directional vs 360 degrees. It's 40 year old tech so I have to assume the EMP handgun has gotten smaller since then.

  • @llamallama1509
    @llamallama1509 2 года назад +1334

    Two military experts just came 0.1mm away from a conversation about Star Trek DS9. Love it!

    • @julianshepherd2038
      @julianshepherd2038 2 года назад +51

      Military experts !
      I thought it was the worst gay prawn I'd ever seen.

    • @cleanerben9636
      @cleanerben9636 2 года назад +53

      @@julianshepherd2038 Now I can imagine the whole vid playing with smooth Jazz in the background lol

    • @englishfabric
      @englishfabric 2 года назад +5

      #thatjusthappened

    • @Erik-ou3tl
      @Erik-ou3tl 2 года назад +21

      Oi! Chieftain! Your Nerd is showing! :P

    • @MisterW0lfe
      @MisterW0lfe 2 года назад +16

      I feel sorry for the Jem'Hadar (Ruzzians)

  • @crabyman3555
    @crabyman3555 2 года назад +806

    Ukraine's logistics are helped by the fact that it is directly connected with Poland and thus the entire EU.......they can have foreign specialists and ''helpers'' just across the Polish border helping them sort out and fix all those million different vehicles and what not. It's a unique advantage most armies will never have, the entire ''Europe'' has their back

    • @timmycrockett3348
      @timmycrockett3348 2 года назад +61

      wars not really ukraine vs russia its more like europe va russia

    • @neilwilson5785
      @neilwilson5785 2 года назад +46

      And that Russia is not the USSR. It is a small economy in comparison.

    • @SirAntoniousBlock
      @SirAntoniousBlock 2 года назад +55

      This war is more similar to WW1 than WW2 in more ways than one, firstly there is the aspect that because of the development of extremely effective anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons tanks and aircraft have been pushed aside and artillery is once again queen of the battlefield and the infantryman king, and secondly just like WW1 each sides arms production is out of reach of the other.

    • @thomascolbert2687
      @thomascolbert2687 2 года назад +2

      I'll bet they're helping with the Russian POW'S, as well.

    • @tarickw
      @tarickw 2 года назад +29

      I would be very suprised if our 'helpers', 'contractors' or 'vendors' are not operating on ukraininan territory

  • @rikulappi9664
    @rikulappi9664 2 года назад +663

    As a Finn the question "Are you ready to fight for your country?" equals "Are you ready to fight against someone who kills Finns in Finland?". We have a defence force. Even career soldiers can decline to serve abroad! This kind of explains the world record level eagerness to personnaly take part in defence.

    • @datadavis
      @datadavis 2 года назад +29

      Oh come on, you hakkapelles are not known from backing down from a fight💪

    • @p_serdiuk
      @p_serdiuk 2 года назад +10

      Yet the legacy of Lauri Törni should remain somewhere, right? :P

    • @CS-zn6pp
      @CS-zn6pp 2 года назад +28

      @@p_serdiuk he loved war so much he changed nationalities 3 times to keep fighting.

    • @RobBCactive
      @RobBCactive 2 года назад +16

      That can become less black/white, for instance after Saddam Hussein's Kuwait invasion doing nothing would have allowed further conquest of oil production.
      There was a compelling strategic need to defend and then defeat the aggression.

    • @nirfz
      @nirfz 2 года назад +27

      The thing Bernhard mentioned with austria is also rooted in the current generations not having wittnessed any conflict anywhere close to austria. Neither armed not unarmed, and no potential threat like you have with your easter neighbour
      I did my service 22 years ago so more in the timeframe like Bernhard did his. And i am old enough to remember the wars that ended Yugoslavia.
      Before that, at the start of the 90's our population was "comfortable" and few thought they would ever want to fight for austria too. Then the war came to the border, houses on our side of the border got bullet holes, our tanks were standing at the border armed and ready and AAA was dug in around the airports and airbases. (first time i saw live AAA guns in a farming field outside of our village.)
      I may only have been in my early teens, but i remember how fast that unfolded, and how big suddenly the support for our armed forces and soldiers was.
      Even the green party people who advocated for giving up the army and "hated on soldiers" as we would say today suddenly swalowed their pride and went to the soldiers and thanked them for their service. That's how fast the sentiment can change.
      That mood went to sleep again pretty fast afterwards "when we were surrounded by friends" again.
      Still, in my generation some remembered when we started our service. The current gen was born way later. And so they can't even imagine any of our neighbouring countries to be in a conflict with us. (Same was true with Yugoslavia, but people seldom learn from history)
      The other thing is what people learn in school about war and armed conflicts here. You have to remember that Austria was on the loosing side of both of the last armed conflicts our people took part that people know of. Nobody learns about battles or fights of WW1 and WW2, what we learn about are the atrocities of our side.
      So pupils learn: "we lost, we did bad things" and unconsciencely we also learn that we "are bad at fighting" as "we lost every war we were in"
      (This goes even further, if young people go on the internet and look at all the historical battle depiction channels, there's almost entirely battles the austrians/Habsburg armies lost depicted, so this bias increases even more. Although if they lost verything, they wouldn't have stayed in power for several hundred years ;-) )
      The only fights we learn about that our side won are the 2 sieges of vienna. And with one of them the internet says the poles won it. (While incredibly important for the fight, they were basically one third of the front that hit the ottomans and kicked them out. The planning, the direction that was chosen and the other 2/3rds of the fighting force who achieved the same thing as the winged husars are rarely mentioned. Because of him being the highest ranking person, the polish king officially had the command "on paper" so he and his troops get the fame.)

  • @MsZeeZed
    @MsZeeZed 2 года назад +383

    30:45 - the Serbians shot “one” stealth fighter-bomber down, as Chieftain said they’d flown the same mission route multiple times. The F-117 was radar invisible except when on an attack run over its target with its bomb-bay open. The SAM commander broke SOP to get missile lock based on real-time intelligence that this flight was operating without its escorts due to bad weather. These Prowler escorts usually provided SAM suppression, jamming & threat detection for the F-117.
    Its similar to the reports of cruise missiles downed by Manpads in Ukraine. Its perfectly feasible, but only if you can predict exactly when & where the target will be coming and are prepared.

    • @majungasaurusaaaa
      @majungasaurusaaaa 2 года назад

      What do americans call "fighter-bombers"? The F-117 was designated such deliberately for coldwar disinformation purpose. And it has zero air to air capability, not even defensive. It's a stealthy light bomber.

    • @bruceparr1678
      @bruceparr1678 2 года назад +7

      The F117 has been withdrawn from service because it has become a target drone.

    • @thedeathwobblechannel6539
      @thedeathwobblechannel6539 2 года назад +27

      F117 "retired" because that project and it's technology and its benefits had ran its course.

    • @blackcountryme
      @blackcountryme 2 года назад +2

      At the time there was a brag about the Russians providing newer radar systems to allow the aircraft to be shot down... but that was at the time.

    • @himoffthequakeroatbox4320
      @himoffthequakeroatbox4320 2 года назад +2

      As I said at the time, a blind man with a machine gun can still shoot you.

  • @wsollers1
    @wsollers1 2 года назад +70

    The only thing that this war highlighted was that armies that do not train in a combined arms manner cannot engage effectively in a combined arms strategy. Training and logistics matter.

  • @djd8305
    @djd8305 2 года назад +137

    The very first shot - Bernhardt soo enthusiastic and Germanic - Nick so laid back and Oirish, made me smile. This video is fantastic proof that collaborations between different, but equally expert and charismatic, fellahs are a force multiplier. We learn as they do too.

  • @LewisRenovation
    @LewisRenovation 2 года назад +150

    Hearing Bernard pronounce the Iroquois word Ticonderoga is worth watching by itself. Great video guys!!

    • @Cdre_Satori
      @Cdre_Satori 2 года назад

      Is that native pronounciation? I just thought Bernard mispronounced it and Chieftain went with his pronunciation. TIL

    • @ssgtmole8610
      @ssgtmole8610 2 года назад +3

      @@Cdre_Satori That is not how I've heard it pronounced. There are several guides on the web. Bernard does his best, so I take it in stride - remembering that some deutsch speakers in his audience are kibitzing that he doesn't use that language in his videos, and that arguing proper engrish prononsiatuin is a lost cause. I worked out the reference from my limited knowledge of modern american navy cruiser class names, and my own wargaming experience (not as detailed as Nick's with Harpoon). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ticonderoga_(CG-47)

    • @LewisRenovation
      @LewisRenovation 2 года назад

      @@Cdre_Satori Tie - con - da - roga in American. Of course I have no idea how the Iroquois would have said it 400 years ago.

    • @MrCantStopTheRobot
      @MrCantStopTheRobot 2 года назад +2

      Look up the videos of German speakers saying "squirrel" for the first time.

    • @activatekruger446
      @activatekruger446 2 года назад

      Time stamp or it didn’t happen

  • @tcurtisjohnson
    @tcurtisjohnson 2 года назад +161

    I love that not only did both of you recall the exact same DS9 scene, it turned out to be the one I thought it would be as soon as "Star Trek" was mentioned in that context. Just goes to show that good content is good content, and good content gets remembered! Keep it up, both Bernhard and Nick; the world can use all the good content it can get, and yours is among the best.

    • @davebauman4991
      @davebauman4991 2 года назад +7

      16:30 'Quark gives Nog some advice about humans' ep.158. "...put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly intelligent wonderful people will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon."---Quark

    • @IanGerritsen
      @IanGerritsen 2 года назад +3

      Quark and Garrak both had some amazing commentary in DS9. I used to be a TNG boy but DS9 is just superb in a lot of the writing.
      Quarks monologue about reminding humans of themselves was another good one.

    • @builder396
      @builder396 2 года назад +1

      Even his opinion about the New Trek series is spot on. It flipped the whole philosophy so far on its head, its insanity to consider it the same franchise. Make your case for Lower Decks, Prodigy or even Strange New Worlds if you want, but Picard and Discovery are completely devoid of anything Trek, especially social commentary.
      The only thing better than the quote from AR-558 is the dialog between Quark and Garak about root beer.

  • @davidmurphy8190
    @davidmurphy8190 2 года назад +2

    Thanks!

  • @MI-wc6nk
    @MI-wc6nk 2 года назад +149

    Regarding "smartphone has no place on battlefield" - this reminded me of the "Security, Usability, Functionality" triangle, in which you can't reach one without sacrificing somewhat the other/s.
    Interesting discussion, thank you for the work.

    • @pointlesspublishing5351
      @pointlesspublishing5351 2 года назад +21

      Civdiv does it right. He goproed his time in Ukraine and showed the vids/pics WEEKS later, not HOURS with a simcard in his phone.

    • @0thPAg
      @0thPAg 2 года назад +1

      It's also laughable how they're saying Ukraine is winning propaganda war bc Russians don't have phones, which is untrue because their telegraph channels are full of phone videos.
      Maybe they should consider the massive deplatforming effort on part of the American empire. These days there are far more videos of ZALA Lancet blowing up UA hardware but nobody ever talks about it in the West.
      Ukraine is in very dire need of a large number of modern point defense vehicles, probably like .5 per km of the front to account for downtime.
      But does the west even have anything good apart from the Otomatic that doesn't cost more to fire than the target is worth ?

    • @0thPAg
      @0thPAg 2 года назад +2

      Lol, the Otomatic is just a prototype, but why isn't Ukraine showing off those snazzy Rheinmetall 35mm guns killing drones and we instead have grainy videos of Lancets diving into S-300 and such.

    • @whybndsu
      @whybndsu 2 года назад

      @@0thPAg Because Ukraine doesnt have the 35mm guided anti aircraft weapons. It has older 35mm SPAAG. So far Ukraine has been shooting down majority of the slow kamikazee drones but some will get through. It also cannot cover the entire country.
      Lastly those suicide drones filmed themselves diving into a fucking inflatable/wood decoy. Take that as you will

    • @MrCantStopTheRobot
      @MrCantStopTheRobot 2 года назад +8

      A 1SG in my former unit was irritated, because he had to send a soldier off to CPOF ("Command Post of the Future") training, despite the company being right in the middle of Gunnery qualification.
      He stood up outside his M113 and held up his smartphone, proclaiming, *"THIS* WILL BE THE COMMAND POST OF THE FUTURE."

  • @len2063
    @len2063 2 года назад +78

    The drones is like the first aircraft in WWI. First scouting then caring amountions. Then specialisation and countermeasurements.

    • @WhatIsSanity
      @WhatIsSanity 2 года назад +7

      Right. Drones will find their niche, big or small.

    • @danielomar9712
      @danielomar9712 2 года назад +1

      And then it becomes AliBaba drones dropping murder machines
      I LOVE it !

  • @rokuth
    @rokuth 2 года назад +99

    13:35 to 14:00 = I had a friend that served in the US Army just after WW2. He ended up in Germany. He commented that the German soldiers could walk in lockstep with very little training, like it was 2nd nature to them. US Army soldiers however had difficulty to do the same. When you mentioned the Peruvian Army having difficulty marching in lockstep, that memory came back to me.

    • @MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized
      @MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized  2 года назад +93

      Yeah, meanwhile with dancing salsa it is the other way.

    • @andresmartinezramos7513
      @andresmartinezramos7513 2 года назад +54

      @@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized win some, lose some

    • @neoprofin
      @neoprofin 2 года назад +10

      At least in my experience, some of the problem is that NCO's that become instructors can't keep rhythm either.
      Watch 1981's "Stripes" with Bill Murray. The song "Doo Wah Diddy" is absolutely correct marching cadence. Just like "Staying Alive" is ironically the correct pace for chest compressions when performing CPR.

    • @buddermonger2000
      @buddermonger2000 Год назад

      @@neoprofin Need to keep that one in my head

    • @mbaxter22
      @mbaxter22 Год назад +1

      Lovers not fighters lol.

  • @mensch1066
    @mensch1066 2 года назад +49

    I suppose one could relate Ukraine's logistics to your "Loot Force One" video about the Wehrmacht in 1941. In both cases there is a ridiculous profusion of foreign models of equipment, but Ukraine is not advancing deep into enemy territory, and it seems confident that when current units are expended, there will be new models to replace them. A Wehrmacht unit with French trucks in 1941 driving through Smolensk did not have that luxury.

    • @steffenb.jrgensen2014
      @steffenb.jrgensen2014 2 года назад +9

      The ukranian/German logistics model worked fairly well because they only had/have to work across a land border relatively nearby. US logistics usually have to work across an ocean. That multiplies the needs for simplification and standardisation

    • @Argentvs
      @Argentvs Год назад +4

      I would bet on that. You are running out of men too, high desertion rate and 20% of the country's population left. Funny enough more than half escaped to Russia.

    • @lugerun
      @lugerun Год назад +1

      @@steffenb.jrgensen2014 As far as i remember german logistics was trash and one of their downfalls.

    • @steffenb.jrgensen2014
      @steffenb.jrgensen2014 Год назад

      @@lugerun I'll claim that it worked very fine with the job it had - supplying armies over land (railway) and with a central position. That is a very different situation compared to the US which makes it close to meaningless to compare US and German logistics. Pretty consistently the Wehrmacht had a better supply distribution efficiency than the Red Army and even in late war the Germans could much faster move large troop formations from one front in Europe to another than the (w)allies - and even to a large degree unseen. Only when allied fighterpombers in 1945 for serious started to strafe anything moving in Germany did the German railway based system start to fail for serious. But even though German war production increased until 1944 (when strategic supplies were cut off by allied (Soviet) boots on the ground) it was a poor comfort as the allied (US) production increased many times more (which is industrial capacity, not logistic). IOW the German problems wasn't their logistic system, that worked OK, their problem was the US logistical system actually succeeding in sending huge amounts of war materiel across oceans. But even with this fine system the allies couldn't keep the entire front in NW Europe in 1944/45 supplied to offensive operations but had to focus.

  • @davidcorriveau8615
    @davidcorriveau8615 2 года назад +14

    Logistics, Logistics, Logistics...from Caesar to Battlestar Galactica an immutable that never changes.

    • @polarvortex3294
      @polarvortex3294 2 года назад +4

      Logistics are a bit like the blood supply in the body.

  • @cleanerben9636
    @cleanerben9636 2 года назад +143

    The drone reminds me of that time where Nicholas mentioned that some tank crews requested a camera on the end of the barrel to peak around corners with and that this was rejected because it reduced operational mobility; the tankers would spend too much time checking corners than going towords their objective. Could this be the same for relying or overusing drones? Infantry just sitting around waiting for the drone guy to maybe spot something?

    • @mcsmash4905
      @mcsmash4905 2 года назад +24

      basicaly over cautious

    • @jebise1126
      @jebise1126 2 года назад +6

      i think not because not all infantry got drones but special operators only. i think its so called pyramid that was mentioned. drones have cameras and produce a lot of videos and those videos are send around. people said that are not even near enough drones to cover all anyway.

    • @cleanerben9636
      @cleanerben9636 2 года назад

      @@jebise1126 Fair enough

    • @michaelguerin56
      @michaelguerin56 2 года назад +5

      That was the RTR testing an experimental setup with multiple cameras, if I recall correctly. I believe that the Chieftain learned about it via a conversation with an RTR officer.

    • @FTWIHA
      @FTWIHA 2 года назад +15

      @@jebise1126
      In a proper Military, normal Infantry got Surveillance Drones too.
      The difference betwern dedicated UAV-Teams and embedded UAV-Units is that a UAV-Teams Drone is usually for themselves and used for Fire Support Coordination in combination with Artillery or Air assets or for pure reconnaissance while embedded UAV-Teams share their Data with not only a Part of the own Forces, but all of them on a Regional Theater level.
      The CL-289 or RQ-20 would be examples of Drones used for the "general Forces" on a Regional Theater Level while something like Black Hornet or AR100 is for Tactical use by dedicated Fire Controllers or Reconnaissance Forces while something like a Global Hawk is something used on a Strategical Level.

  • @FulkNerraIII
    @FulkNerraIII 2 года назад +50

    The fact you bought up a DS9 reference and Chieftain knew exactly what you were talking about made my day. I thought Chieftain was sitting there clueless and confused, but nope he even knew which character said it. As a huge DS9 fan and a military history buff it was cool to seem the crossover.

  • @katfrog98
    @katfrog98 2 года назад +6

    Each of you are great on your own, but what a treat it is whenever you are together! Thank you. Yes, the more things change the more they remain the same.

  • @GRWiley
    @GRWiley 2 года назад +31

    He's referring to the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode entitled "The Siege of AR-558." Loved how The Chieftain immediately knew the episode.

    • @runi5413
      @runi5413 2 года назад +3

      Darmok and Jalad, at Tanagra.

    • @shaqm0bile
      @shaqm0bile 10 месяцев назад

      Temba, his arms wide.@@runi5413

  • @eddiecharles6457
    @eddiecharles6457 2 года назад +14

    Awesome seeing 2 experts of this calibre in one video and the reference of Quark talking to Nogg about humans just made it even more profound.

  • @katamarankatamaranovich9986
    @katamarankatamaranovich9986 2 года назад +50

    Terror bombing does not evoke a thought: "We should probably surrender" or "We can't possibly win this"
    It evokes the following thoughts:
    "Imagine if they were in control here and could do whatever they wanted";
    "If they capture us, they would use more efficient and silent ways to kill us. Nobody would ever know, nobody would be punished";
    "The ducktape and plastic bag is a worse way to go";
    And the last ones that take hold in your head after several weeks or month:
    "Here goes another one, back to doing whatever I was doing" and "If it hits - it hits" (йобне то йобне).
    Speaking from experience, even close calls do not change that. The last two are more or less universal to most people here.

    • @ifv2089
      @ifv2089 2 года назад +4

      Japan entered the chat

    • @katamarankatamaranovich9986
      @katamarankatamaranovich9986 2 года назад +10

      @@ifv2089 I'd say there were two reasons for Japanese surrender. Atomic bombs, sure but they were not as devastating as firebombing campaign before it. The second one is the destruction of Quantum Army by the Soviets that happened at the same time. Before those two events the Japanese held the hope that if they were able to bleed out Americans landing on their home islands, they would be able to get themselves into negotiations and peace treaty. When their most powerful army collapsed and americans made clear they have more than one bomb and can do atomic bombings regularly Japanese realized that they will not be able to fight off the invasion of two superpowers. Eventually they got to keep the Emperor and there was no splitting into occupation areas, like in Germany, which were some of their goals with the whole bleeding out the americans thing.

    • @ifv2089
      @ifv2089 2 года назад +1

      @@katamarankatamaranovich9986yeah the firebombings were fearce, an example of where bombings worked.. took a few nukes as well

    • @JoseReyes-jo7tc
      @JoseReyes-jo7tc 2 года назад +3

      @@ifv2089 Well kind of the fire bombings didn’t really affect Japanese morale, neither did the two nukes. Imperial Japan was going to fight to the bitter end even if the entire country was nuked. What ended the war was several factors that included the nukes and Soviets combining with the Emperor directly intervening and surrendering. Bombing has a history of not working and if it did work it was not the main reason, usually it was something along the lines of military defeat or starvation.

    • @ifv2089
      @ifv2089 2 года назад

      @@JoseReyes-jo7tc i was always under the impresion this was one of the few terror bombings that delivered its intended effects, very intresting thanks, excited to look into this in more depth now.

  • @davefranklin4136
    @davefranklin4136 2 года назад +106

    I really had to laugh at the "most secure computer is unplugged, in a safe, on a desert island, which makes the cyber security guys happy" line. When I was still working, I would repeatedly make the same comment: that the cyber security people are often more dangerous than the enemy, since if they have their way, none of us will be able to communicate with anyone else, in any way - even if we're both on the same air-gapped network! I AM so happy to be retired...

    • @himoffthequakeroatbox4320
      @himoffthequakeroatbox4320 2 года назад +19

      I've had that conversation. "Stopping me doing my job is as much a security failure as allowing hackers in."

    • @dmoore5120
      @dmoore5120 2 года назад +5

      yea olde security vs convenience struggle ;-) ...

    • @RobinTheBot
      @RobinTheBot 2 года назад +15

      And on the other hand, grunts hooking up their cell to download porn off a secured network, leaving USBs and sticky notes with their passwords on it, and otherwise assuming the enemy must be in the tent to get into an internet enabled computer....
      The security guys have removed so many installations of Doom and other games from the wackiest places. Wouldn't shock me to learn someone got a game running on a Ballistic Missile computer.

    • @Jcraft153
      @Jcraft153 2 года назад +4

      Cyber guy: **why can't you just talk face to face, so much more secure**

    • @Wailwulf
      @Wailwulf 2 года назад

      Iran had a number of computerized machines, that were not connected to the internet (just the factory's building intra-net), hacked by a virus that had been imbedded in a few thousand USBs. This caused a massive reduction in the production in enriched uranium.

  • @fredorman2429
    @fredorman2429 2 года назад +7

    It’s so good to listen to people who know their subject.

  • @peterschmidt1900
    @peterschmidt1900 2 года назад +62

    About Airmobile units: You forgot to mention/consider Mogadishu (Black Hawk Down) ...
    Lesson was: If the enemy starts shooting down your helicopters, trying the evacuate with more helicopters is maybe not the best solution, no matter how much air superiority you have, because the enemy starts to snowball.

    • @emberfist8347
      @emberfist8347 2 года назад +16

      That and the lessons we learned were that you need an armored backplate for soldiers and if you are fast-roping units in a in urban environment. Drop them on the building rooftops not the middle of the street where they are sitting ducks.

    • @ricardokowalski1579
      @ricardokowalski1579 2 года назад +2

      There is also the british Paras in the Falklands.
      They did perform well, but also took high casualties

    • @watcherzero5256
      @watcherzero5256 2 года назад +6

      @@ricardokowalski1579 That in part was due to the terrain they were being dropped on, boulder strewn with little vegetation. Lot of broken bones.

    • @Seriona1
      @Seriona1 2 года назад +9

      The US basically learned that lesson and now it snowballed into the other side where they will not use helicopter at all if the shit was too thick. It just sucked it took two conflicts for the US to get that into their head. They said the RPG-7 couldn't bring down a helicopter and the Viet Cong did that against our Huey's and then the US said well that shouldn't work on modern Blackhawks and it worked again in Mog.

    • @Prometheus7272
      @Prometheus7272 2 года назад +11

      @@ricardokowalski1579 They didn't actually parachute in though. The reason they took high casulties is because paras want to win engagements more than they want to live through them.

  • @84erElessar
    @84erElessar 2 года назад +8

    What a pearl of a video! Thank you both for this 👍

  • @DomCombatVids
    @DomCombatVids 2 года назад +53

    On airmobile operations: I think it's a matter of placement and good combined arms. For my example, I'll be using the Tangail airdrop by the 2nd Parachute Battalion and 49th Parachute Field Battery of the Indian Army during the Indian Army's invasion of East Pakistan in 1971.
    On 11 December, 1971, 2 Para was dropped at Tangail to capture Poongli Bridge, which controlled the shortest road to Dhaka (the Indian offensive's objective). Their other objective was to interdict the Pakistan Army's 93rd Mechanised Brigade which was conducting a fighting withdrawal to reinforce the Dhaka garrison. A nearby infantry battalion which had broken through Pakistani lines (1st Maratha Light Infantry) was to reinforce the Paras. Within less than 12 hours, the Paras had repulsed the 93rd's counterattack, secured the bridge, linked up with 1MLI and secured the road for the armoured and mechanised columns of the Army. On the 14th of December, the Army surrounded Dhaka and the Pakistani Armed Forces surrendered over 93k men, their entire force in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh).
    The Indian side had complete air superiority and the Paras could rely on Hawker Hunters, Su-7s and MiG-21s for CAS. The Pakistani side could not. The 93rd had already suffered casualties in combat and was understrenght and exhausted, faced with the best available and fresh Indian infantry.
    Without the Tangail drop, the war could have dragged on for weeks. I believe this illustrates my point; air mobile forces are exceptionally useful, when used properly. Something Russia failed to do at Hostomel

    • @DomCombatVids
      @DomCombatVids 2 года назад +3

      en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangail_Airdrop

    • @БодяДробовик
      @БодяДробовик 2 года назад +6

      I think airdrops should be used against worn out enemies with constant presure on the frontline and air superiority, if its only a start of a war when there are enough reserves indeep of lines airdrop gonna lead to disaster

    • @Voron_Aggrav
      @Voron_Aggrav 2 года назад +7

      @@БодяДробовик mean you can use it to kickstart something, but you'd need to be Damn sure that you can get a relief force there within 12 hours, and that the enemy can't muster it's forces at that location overwhelming those troops, generally you're right though they're support elements to achieve otherwise unreachable goals

    • @PaulVerhoeven2
      @PaulVerhoeven2 2 года назад +1

      Not so much "when used properly" as "The Indian side had complete air superiority".
      With radar anti-air missiles available to your enemy, air drops are insane as the whole planes full of your best soldiers will go down. And if some do get through, they find themselves in encirclement and without supply very quickly, exactly the position you do not want to be in.
      It's like anti-battery radars making static artillery positions (and hence towed artillery) pretty much suicidal. And not like these are new technologies, they are available for well over 50 years.
      So you kind of use some dumb techniques against savages because they are so much weaker technologically, but do not try it against even half-competent enemy.

    • @Archer89201
      @Archer89201 2 года назад +3

      The Hostomel operation was a massive failure due to wrong Intel, the VDV forces was expected to be reinforced by ground forces , the RuAF was supposed to have air superiority and resistance not very heavy. The VDV force had to face Ukrainian rapid reaction forces that included armor, mechanized infantry and special forces supported by artillery, helicopters and even fighter bombers. No SF/ para force can fight such fire power.

  • @Tornadocholo
    @Tornadocholo 2 года назад +11

    Always refreshing to see these two giants collab, thanks for the video, good topics:)

  • @eskimo05w
    @eskimo05w 2 года назад +6

    @ 29:20 I played Harpoon, the board game and computer game versions. Tom Clancy says that he used the board game version as technical reference when writing _Hunt for Red October._

  • @The_Viscount
    @The_Viscount 2 года назад +9

    There was a report before the war started that talked about how many problems Moskva had in February. Aparently, she only had one working CWIS, half the bridge indicator lights weren't working, the interior radios were interfering with the radar, so different departments needed to rely on runners so long as the radar was on, a significant number of watertight doors were missing or stuck open, they had a severe lack of damage control (firefighting and emergency repair) equipment, and what they had was locked up because sailors kept stealing it to sell. So the ship probably had her radar off, she had one working gatling cannon and it had less than 180 degrees of coverage, and was hit. They immediately turn on the radar meaning that the engineering department can't tell the captain that they're flooding. They don't have the tools to stop the flooding or fires, and they can't close the doors to localize fire or flooding. Ship shouldn't have ever been in an active combat zone.

  • @SillyGit
    @SillyGit 2 года назад +17

    Concerning POWs, the logistical burden is not as big as you might think, mainly because most of them go back to Russia eventually - prisoners exchange are rather frequent (once a month, sometimes twice a month). Hell, some people here even stopped calling them prisoners of war, instead they are referred as simply "exchange fund".

    • @boomer955
      @boomer955 2 года назад

      Mortality rate for the Russian POWs is very high. A significant number of them is killed or tortured to death. A few days ago about 10 Russian POWs were lined up and shot. There is plenty of information on the internet about their treatment at the hands of the Ukrainians. If you watch the exchange footage the Ukrainian POWS are well fed and in good conditions, the Russian POWs are malnourished and many of them can barely walk from all the torture.
      Ukraine is on par with ISIS when it comes to treatment of POWs.

    • @SillyGit
      @SillyGit 2 года назад

      @@boomer955 The internet is a funny thing, because everything you just said, I see the exact opposite of it. But sure, feel free to believe that you see only the "truth".

    • @boomer955
      @boomer955 2 года назад

      @@SillyGit Show me a video of Ukrainian POWs executed

    • @SillyGit
      @SillyGit 2 года назад

      @@boomer955 Show me a video of Russian POW "lined up and executed" first.

  • @SteeGrav
    @SteeGrav 2 года назад +12

    You two reveals yourself to be Trekkies! Live long and prosper!

  • @momo9594
    @momo9594 2 года назад +5

    So nice to see you guys together.

  • @rolf-joachimschroder917
    @rolf-joachimschroder917 2 года назад +16

    On the subject of cameras on the battlefield, Ukrainian soldiers often use action cams on their helmets or protective vests. Withstands more, can be difficult or impossible to target due to WLAN or Bluetooth radio range

  • @IFarmBugs
    @IFarmBugs 2 года назад +59

    15:25 Idk maybe you're right but at this point I think a lot of people have become aware of how poorly European and especially German energy policy has been handled by the respective governing bodies.

    • @F4Wildcat
      @F4Wildcat 2 года назад +18

      True, Germany and Belgium did piss poor energy policy and reactions to the crisis. And the biggest culprit is the liberalization of the european energy market by the liberal parties. They sold us out.

    • @stc3145
      @stc3145 2 года назад +12

      Why did they ever elect Angela Merkel. Anyone who prefers East Germany to West Germany has issues

    • @pointlesspublishing5351
      @pointlesspublishing5351 2 года назад +13

      Merkel stood for "stability." Old folks LOVE stability. Germany IS an old peoples society.

    • @512TheWolf512
      @512TheWolf512 2 года назад

      merkel is a traitor and should be jailed. Literally thousands died directly because of her.

    • @pamelajessup7931
      @pamelajessup7931 2 года назад +3

      Germany was at least trying until *SOMEBODY* blew up their gas pipeline.

  • @shooster5884
    @shooster5884 2 года назад +13

    I know nothing about military matters but one thing I have learned from the war in Ukraine so far is that regardless of what weapons you have, a well trained, tactically smart army, well backed up by a well coordinated efficient and well organized supply system and civilian organization and high morale and determination and focus in both... is what matters most.

    • @Mortablunt
      @Mortablunt Год назад +1

      That can't be Ukraine, not with what's been coming from Telegram for a long time.

  • @jameslooker4791
    @jameslooker4791 2 года назад +18

    The logistics issue makes me think the weapons suffer more than the logisticians. I wouldn't be surprised if we learn after the war that some of these artillery systems were operational about 30-50% of the time because each breakdown would take weeks to fix.

    • @w8stral
      @w8stral 2 года назад +2

      The fact is they got very little NATO hardware compared to what was given of what they already had and were using. Russia helped out a lot as well...

    • @PaulVerhoeven2
      @PaulVerhoeven2 2 года назад +1

      If talking about PzH2000 and CAESAR, they are operational WAY less than 30% of time. If you believe the Ukrainians who actually use them (if you understand Ukrainian I can recommend a channel or two, I learned enough Ukrainian in the last 9 months just to understand the incredible military content they produce nowadays). They call even M109s (at least those few M109A3s and M109A4s they got, from Belgium and Netherlands by the way of Britain) unreliable and "delicate". And that is after using mainly 2S1s and 2S3s.
      This war has proven that there is a lot to be said about good old (ancient by now) Soviet tech made for real war, not to fill the pockets of private defense contractors.

  •  2 года назад +15

    Nice Video. Interesting to see you two together.

    • @MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized
      @MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized  2 года назад +8

      Thanks! 😃

    • @johanmetreus1268
      @johanmetreus1268 2 года назад +1

      I should have known you are in the proper community given your excellent videos on PzH 2000 :)

    •  2 года назад +1

      @@johanmetreus1268 military history Visualized, the chieftain and military aviation history were certainly Part of the motivation for me to start a channel myself. But they are of course still by far on another Level

    • @johanmetreus1268
      @johanmetreus1268 2 года назад

      @ Well, they have had a few years of practice.
      Still, the explanation of true MRSI and its application in batteries is something I have not heard from anywhere else, so keep up the good work!

  • @charlesbruggmann7909
    @charlesbruggmann7909 2 года назад +18

    On the subject of the diversity of donated weapons - we know a lot of repair/maintenance is being done close over the border from UE. Also, one wonders whether a few western technicians might not be taking ‘holidays’ in Ukraine - wearing jeans/t-shirt obviously.

    • @karlr750
      @karlr750 2 года назад +4

      Sort of … because, if I were a technician (which I'm not), I would prefer to take my "paid holiday" in Poland, Romania, Lithuania, or Estonia (etc.), instead of taking it in Ukraine (where I might be targeted by Russian artillery.)
      I think there may be a number of "paid holidays" in progress. I'm just quibbling about which side of the border they're occurring on.

    • @markfryer9880
      @markfryer9880 2 года назад +1

      Well given that Summer is gone, I hope that those guys have brought their winter clothes for their holiday.

    • @tomhenry897
      @tomhenry897 2 года назад +1

      More money in Ukraine

    • @muttmankc
      @muttmankc 2 года назад

      @@karlr750 Correct. Per Outlaw Josey Wales- "Dyin' is a hell of a way to make a living".

  • @DonRaynor
    @DonRaynor 2 года назад +10

    My brother who is Active duty Tanker told me that The Panthers only good upgrade is the drone operator.
    In his (Tank commander) thought, every platoon should have one, it is better to have it in the tanks, than behind, as you're not always guaranteed your shadow actually is able to shadow.

    • @tim1398
      @tim1398 2 года назад +4

      That makes sense, just like planes have some EW and search radar capability so they are not completely dependent on AWCS and EW aircraft. Can't have your high-value assets naked.

    • @ale434me
      @ale434me 2 года назад

      I expect that role could extend to "mission planner" as the tank will moving into contact or in exploitation be looking for the safest and most covered approach (unless you think the enemy are covering the route with something heavy). #

    • @ironstarofmordian7098
      @ironstarofmordian7098 2 года назад

      In the near term, that's definitely the case. A four man crew with a drone operator instead of a loader (an auto loader is obviously doing the loading)wpuld be a serious edge. That's at least 2 drones flying for one platoon searching any terrain which can possibly hide enemy vehicles or infantry while the other 2 recharge and the operators rest. Add that in with company level recon drones, dismounted infantry platoons and their drones along with the infantry company's drones, with a good battle network, and you'll have an excellent system for recon and security.

  • @gerthddyn
    @gerthddyn 10 месяцев назад +1

    I love that you brought up Harpoon. The original was one of my favorite games when I was a kid.

  • @moors710
    @moors710 2 года назад +6

    As a weapons designer, I found the specs changing monthly would prevent us from on time delivery of systems.

    • @KevinSmith-ys3mh
      @KevinSmith-ys3mh 2 года назад

      And clearly so did the builder's of the NASA Constellation / SLS rocket program, finally on the way to the moon but daaaaammmmm - what a $$$ price payed for decades now to get off the pad! Especially for a system conceived as a quickie reuse of proven Shuttle bits! I'm sure a few masters and doctoral theses will be written on this mess of a project, even if it completely achieves all milestones. 😕🙄

  • @schlawa
    @schlawa 2 года назад +4

    Such a good video. You can allow yourself's a bar and some beer or expensive whiskey I don't mind and certainly have some available while listening on a Friday evening. ... and I fled Cologne for the start of Carnival ... :)

  • @micumatrix
    @micumatrix 2 года назад +10

    Airdeployed troops: most special forces are deployed by air and are many times retreived same way. Its maybe a matter of size, because many spies since ww2 were often deployed successful by airdrop.

  • @target844
    @target844 2 года назад +10

    There is speculation that the small Ukrainian drone boats use Starlink for communication. There is a rectangular flat part sticking up on the rear with a similar look to the one Starlink use. Because it uses an electronic phased array antenna so the majority of the energy when you transmit will go up in the sky and you need something in the air in the right location to receive it. The transmission from space will be directional too, they will cover a larger area on the ground than just the intended receiver. So you could get a warning from it but it will not be when it is far away. Jamming is also a lot harder for directional satellite communication.
    An attacker that has full control of the system, can target an enemy ship with a dummy transmission. It could be on some or all of the time. At that point, the warning starts to be quite meaningless. The question in a major military conflict is would any satellite weapons be used and are there enough to take out enough of a system like Starlink. I suspect Starlink satellites are a lot cheaper to launch than any anti-satellite missles and can be produced and launched faster

    • @watcherzero5256
      @watcherzero5256 2 года назад +3

      A Starlink sat beam has a diameter of 15 miles which is treated as an hexagonal cell, with each sat capable of forming 16 beams or cells in a honeycomb pattern, however the sat is constantly moving and so are the cells it projects with you being handed off to the next cell like when using a mobile phone, so in theory if your standing still your presence could potentially be detected in a 30 by 15 mile slice. However its likely a sniffer plane could pick up the scattered reflections of the transmissions and listen in upto a couple of hundred miles away.

    • @xjax8519
      @xjax8519 2 года назад

      @@watcherzero5256 Ukraine Army dont used "Starlink" ! Realy you sink they stupid ??? They made "Duga radar" and know how it work ))) Dont be a fool !

  • @glypnir
    @glypnir 2 года назад +5

    So many things I could say. I don’t know how military drones communicate, but I know a little bit about communication. You can use either very directional communication, say a phased array or a parabolic antenna to a satellite or a ground or air based antenna. If you’re not actually in the directional beam, jamming and detection are very difficult. There are also a wide variety of spread spectrum techniques which can make it very hard to jam and detect signals unless you know the specific pattern to use, either the CDMA code or the frequency switching pattern. Or maybe both.

  • @iDEATH
    @iDEATH 2 года назад +4

    Really interesting discussion off that great first question. I think I commented on The Chieftain's channel somewhere when this war started that the most fascinating part for us armchair general types would be the years of postmortem analysis once it's all over. I'm far from an expert myself, but I love this sort of postulating and hypothesising.

  • @Leo137156
    @Leo137156 2 года назад +4

    Great discussion and good conclusions. Especially the one about the Russians learning and about the tank. You are so right Nick: no need to add anything IN the tank that does not help it do the job it was designed to do, especially another guy doing something unrelated to tank's mission. But also, Sun Zu said it long time ago: that wars must be short or you end up training your enemy. The American way of saying that is: the dumb ones die early in the war, the ones left are the ones which survived and usually smarter and quicker, otherwise they would already be dead. Thanks for the video.

  • @quauhtliauva1705
    @quauhtliauva1705 2 года назад +3

    Holy Crap! The Chieftain is everywhere! Amazing my dude, "keep fing that chicken". 👍 But I'm 100% with you, I've been wondering since early summer how the hell the Ukrainian military, has been managing to cope with all the logistic of this war. Is just mesmerizing to think about it and definitely a case study for future conflicts.

  • @alhesiad
    @alhesiad 2 года назад +10

    Look, a crossover in the MHV Extended Universe.

  • @BM-bp7kp
    @BM-bp7kp 2 года назад +1

    "That was Quark talking to Nog, DS9" = instant thumbs up. It feels so nice to know im in good company.

  • @txdino6063
    @txdino6063 2 года назад +9

    I see drone warfare has a lot of parallels with aviation in WWI. It is evolving same way. From recon to light bombing to improvised aircraft vs aircraft.

  • @jackray1337
    @jackray1337 2 года назад +3

    A note on SIM cards. We already use a lot of phones with electronic SIMs (eSIM) instead of physical ones. We are integrating the system of having multiple eSIMS into one phone.
    Thank you for sharing this discussion.

  • @idrisddraig2
    @idrisddraig2 2 года назад +25

    2 Trekkies setting the world to rights. Live long and prosper....gentlemen!

  • @JHorsti
    @JHorsti 2 года назад +13

    Just for the record, the Star Trek quote you were talking about is from Deep Space Nine S07E08 The Siege of AR-558.
    "Let me tell you something about Humans, Nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holo-suites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people… will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes."

    • @JHorsti
      @JHorsti 2 года назад +6

      Also I'm glad we're all in agreement that Nu Trek fucking sucks.

    • @SirAntoniousBlock
      @SirAntoniousBlock 2 года назад +2

      Yep, Quark certainly has our number.

    • @JHorsti
      @JHorsti 2 года назад +2

      @@SirAntoniousBlock Come to Quark's, Quark's is fun, come right now, don't walk - run!

    • @SirAntoniousBlock
      @SirAntoniousBlock 2 года назад +1

      @@JHorsti 😂 Dabo!

  • @jankopransky2551
    @jankopransky2551 2 года назад +2

    Nice to hear that you're a fellow trekkie, Bernhard!

  • @J3AD
    @J3AD 2 года назад +2

    I liked these type of videos, hope you guys do more like this from time to time.

  • @andrewatwood4711
    @andrewatwood4711 2 года назад +4

    OMG you guys are F-ffing Star Trek nerds. That was the icing on the cake of the whole interview when you start quoting scenes from Star Trek to reference current events 😂🤣😂🤣💞 I love it I could listen to you guys talk all day very informative
    Qápla 😉

  • @jefferynelson
    @jefferynelson 2 года назад +5

    these two should play beer pong & Military History Trivial Pursuit simultaneously

  • @infinitehonkworks195
    @infinitehonkworks195 2 года назад +5

    I feel like anger toward the austrian and german governments is justified, as while russia turned off the gas, it was those governments that made the countries reliant on russian gas in the first place, despite all the ivory tower fanfare about how pure, noble and green they were
    they had plenty of time to invest in alternative sources to cut off the russians completely, but refused, and now the common people get to suffer for it while they kick back cozy in their mansions

  • @websnail
    @websnail Год назад +1

    Was shortly before commenting about the „drone ships“ when you came up to autonomous steering yourself! There are some big research ongoing for onboard autonomous AI on systems.

  • @TurboHappyCar
    @TurboHappyCar 2 года назад +1

    Great chat, thanks guys! 👍

  • @xela6349
    @xela6349 2 года назад +4

    Chieftain saying that tank platoon/company commanders did fine commanding their own tank ignores that historically there have been command tank versions, sometimes even without the main weaponry, just so the commander could actually concentrate on the entire unit instead of his own tank. It should improve efficiency.

  • @richardnicklin654
    @richardnicklin654 2 года назад +19

    On the subject of airborne forces: we should remember that they can be employed as an extremely rapidly deployable reserve either to reinforce a defence or to support a counter attack. The Bundeswehr certainly exercised this sort of manoeuvre (with helicopters) in the 1980s.

    • @Lomi311
      @Lomi311 2 года назад +6

      WW1 cavalry was used much the same as well. The British called it “fire brigades” I think. The horses were too vulnerable to attack at the front (usually) but they’re mobility was a huge asset in rear areas.

    • @watcherzero5256
      @watcherzero5256 2 года назад +2

      There is a difference between an air-mobile high readiness force and an air-deployable force.

    • @matthiuskoenig3378
      @matthiuskoenig3378 2 года назад +2

      It's not that the horses were too vulnerable, most cavalry attacks in ww1 had low casualties compaired to infantry units, even ones attacking foentlaly against machine guns and what not.
      The issue was they wanted to preserve their strength to counter or exploit breakthroughs because they were the only real mobile troops.

  • @HereticalKitsune
    @HereticalKitsune 2 года назад +2

    As a former logistics soldier I am always happy to hear more about it!

  • @Fulmir-
    @Fulmir- 2 года назад +2

    I'm far from an expert on EWar, Electronic Coms, etc, but I do have a couple of points on the "Drone/Ewar in the tank" thing. This doesn't invalidate anything said in the video, I'm just pointing out that there are additional factors and concerns beyond those brought up.
    The biggest one is that the further away a transmitter is from what it needs to transmit to then the bigger and more powerful it has to be. If you just want a drone, even an automated one, to provide some degree of top-cover visibility for a formation but the controlling vehicle is a couple km away behind a ridge then the transmitter on both the vehicle *and the drone* has to be able to transmit those kilometers and through that ridge.
    This becomes even more of an issue for something like EWar, where overcoming jamming can already result in a larger transmitter, and/or more computing power, and if you're doing something like jamming then if you want your jamming to reach from that "one ridge back" vehicle to cover the advancing force then because of the Inverse-Square Law anyone in between the force and the jamming vehicle is dealing with a *much* stronger signal, and that may include reinforcements or other supporting forces. Plus if for some reason directional jamming isn't possible or desirable then you're also projecting a jamming field over the folks 2 hills back from the point force as well.
    Now in general modern jamming doesn't affect its own side too much, but there is still some effect, and generally the more thorough the jamming the bigger the effect, especially if the enemy is also trying to jam you in response.
    So even if there's EWar somewhere else covering the whole battle space there may be advantages to having drone control inside a big armored box close to where the drone is operating. Maybe it makes the drone harder to jam, maybe it makes the drone smaller and cheaper, and heck maybe it makes the drone cheaper but not smaller and it can carry a bigger boom or more interesting stuff that supports the mission.

  • @capt5656
    @capt5656 2 года назад +6

    On logistics, i'd mention the coming up of tele-repair operations, it's how they are maintaining many of their systems on the ground atm. It'll also be one of those things that require post-war analysis to see how effective it was but considering the US Military has apparently expanded it from just an ad-hoc thing, it at least seems to be helpful for Ukraine right now.

  • @nowthenzen
    @nowthenzen 2 года назад +60

    There's an operation with the French in Vietnam (this is all from memory so bear with me) The French defense of North Vietnam had collapsed and the army was in full retreat closely followed by the Vietminh. So Leclerc had a paratroop battalion drop in-between the retreat and hold off Uncle Ho for a day or two, willing to sacrifice one Battalion to save an army. Near the end of the action the battalion commander turns to a Lieutenant in command of local troops (i.e. SE Asian troops) and says, You hold the line while the rest of the guys get out. It's simple math, 40 to save 400. And so it goes. I think that Lieutenant and some of his guys managed to get away that night. I think it might have been told by the Great Bernard Fall Street Without Joy. To whom, everybody should have listened and read.

    • @khiem1939
      @khiem1939 2 года назад +23

      Many of us read him, but alas we weren't in charge of the either the troops or the war, we were just little cogs in that war! Strange, today in Vietnam, High School students study English rather than the previous Russian, they as a nation HATE Chinese, not ethnic Vietnamese/Chinese, but Mainland Chinese! As one former Viet Cong Captain with the T-10 Sapper Battalion told me "The war was long ago, you did your job and I did my job, but today nobody cares about the war! Today, Vietnam wants to be friends with the United States, since we have a common enemy, CHINA!" Yes, after 55 years. since I graduated from Vietnamese Language School at DLI, I can still read and speak "passable" Vietnamese!

    • @nowthenzen
      @nowthenzen 2 года назад +3

      @@khiem1939 Thanks for the insight!

    • @samb2052
      @samb2052 2 года назад +3

      Dead on. Much wisdom to be gleaned from’Street without Joy.’

    • @johnspurrell1200
      @johnspurrell1200 2 года назад +5

      Dien Bien Phu Hell in a Very Small Place was Fall's book about it.

    • @derrickthewhite1
      @derrickthewhite1 2 года назад +12

      @@khiem1939 Count the number of wars between Vietnam and China, and check who Vietnam fought their most recent war with, and it makes plenty of sense.

  • @lucdrouin4653
    @lucdrouin4653 2 года назад +4

    Our hosts, in addition to giving us learned opinions on the subject-matter, are able to quote correctly Star Trek : Deep Space Nine, re : a dialogue between Quark and Nog. Given that this episode was aired in the 90s, unless they currently binge on old sci-fi programs, this is very impressive.

  • @sneakycactus8815
    @sneakycactus8815 2 года назад +1

    joining in on the DS9 reference love! if the comment section is any indication, please do not refrain from star trek references in the future! we love it!

  • @WhiskyCanuck
    @WhiskyCanuck 2 года назад +2

    Unexpected Deep Space 9.
    "Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes."

  • @mmaleko
    @mmaleko 2 года назад +3

    “We don’t want the nerd, we want ammo” cracked me up good 😂

  • @hansvonmannschaft9062
    @hansvonmannschaft9062 2 года назад +20

    Loved the entire video. The disclaimer at the beginning stating that *NO* Nick is *NOT RETIRED* was awesome. The Star-Trek discussion got me by surprise, and the conclusions were more than interesting. Moreover, no Nick, I don't think *anyone* could've gotten offended by your "rants", they weren't even rants, you were spot on, standing your ground, and with based arguments. Great vid and surprise Bern, and I just noticed how (no pun intended) time flew this year, because I haven't had the chance of beginning to read your Stuka book I got in March iirc! Oh did browse through it several times. Love it. Please write another one on another subject with that degree of depth. 😀 Ps. And don't look so serious in the back cover's photo the next time! 😀

    • @TheChieftainsHatch
      @TheChieftainsHatch 2 года назад +5

      In fairness, it seems that Bernhard edited out the bits that might have caused a tad more offense, which was nice of him.

  • @qjnmh
    @qjnmh 2 года назад +3

    “Are air mobile units obsolete?” I would argue that they are no more obsolete than they always have been, which is they are useful in only very specific circumstances, and most of the time those missions can be achieved in other ways…

  • @knorpelmancer
    @knorpelmancer 2 года назад +1

    Great video, really enjoyed your short ramble about new Star Trek ;)

  • @williamhenry8914
    @williamhenry8914 2 года назад +1

    I love how you both lean forward together at the start, body language bromance :D

  • @Curmudgeon2
    @Curmudgeon2 2 года назад +3

    at Chosin the Marines were never fully encircled, but the Army RCT (-) was encircled on the eastern side and pretty much destroyed....however, their sacrifice allowed the Marines to regroup and withdraw. Yes, the MSR going south was interdicted by Chinese troops, but they were not strong enough to actually block the road and 1st Marine Div was able to withdraw in good order. I credit this to the fact that the 1st MD was at full strength with their ranks filled with WWII Marines called by to active duty and not KATUS that the Army was stuck with to fill out their ranks.

  • @astrorick2910
    @astrorick2910 2 года назад +6

    Chieftain with Star Trek knowledge 🔥🔥🔥

  • @Curmudgeon2
    @Curmudgeon2 2 года назад +6

    always fun to hear a guy with a distinct Germanic accent using the word "bonkers"

  • @pex_the_unalivedrunk6785
    @pex_the_unalivedrunk6785 2 года назад +1

    How good do current airborne drones operate during weather extremes, such as blizzards? Maybe a bunch of tanks or troops could sneak around slowly while drone support is grounded? Granted the visibility conditions on the ground would also be dismal, but still traversable.

  • @martinpollak7039
    @martinpollak7039 2 года назад +1

    Very nice chat guys! You should do more collaborations. I already missed The Chieftain twice in Austria. :(

  • @stuartcoyle1626
    @stuartcoyle1626 2 года назад +25

    Lesson number 1. Don't start wars you can't finish on your terms, even better - don't start wars. We never seem to learn this lesson.

    • @Merces69
      @Merces69 2 года назад

      yes best way to not be heartbroken is to not fall in love, the best way to avoid a heart attack is to not eat. the best way to not die in a car crash is to not drive.

    • @brianmead7556
      @brianmead7556 2 года назад +4

      Lesson #2: It's free to be a jerk, it's free to be nice, but it's a lot cheaper to not have to pick your teeth up off the floor after someone's had enough of your jerkery. Or in this case, it's a lot cheaper to let people just speak their language than to have to rebuild your country after losing your resource rich regions, blue water ports, and infrastructure.

  • @maciek19882
    @maciek19882 2 года назад +8

    I wonder if there ever will be a drone vs drone duel between two opposing infantry squads.

    • @Belsen85
      @Belsen85 2 года назад +3

      it was one filmed case of an Ukrainian drone ramming a Russian (Lugansk) one purposely. The funny thing is that the initiating Ukrainian drone lost by breaking his propellers.

    • @konstantinshev1320
      @konstantinshev1320 2 года назад +1

      Already happened

    • @a.rogers1403
      @a.rogers1403 2 года назад +4

      Well, I saw a video of a drone essentially doing a 'death from above' dropkick onto another drone. It was able to knock the other drone out of the sky whilst seemingly remaining intact & airborne.

    • @peterh8553
      @peterh8553 2 года назад

      Absolutely
      I don't want to get to fanciful but drone development seems to be much like the development of the airplane during WWI
      First observation Planes
      Then planes were used for artillery spotting
      Then drones were used to drop bombs on enemy positions
      Finally planes were used to shoot down other planes
      Drones look to be following the same pattern.
      That fourth spot the drone operator in the tank would be important. The Tank would command several
      different types of drones . A couple of suicide drones a observation drone of the nearby area ,also a drone that in the air could attack other observation enemy drones. The new 6 generation fighters are rumored to be able to command a drone swarm. The tank would be the 6 gen fighter on the ground.

    • @swampdonkey1567
      @swampdonkey1567 2 года назад

      In Japan apparently the criminals use drones to deliver drugs (nothing new there) but the police use counter drones to catch em in nets, and a few other methods.

  • @typxxilps
    @typxxilps 2 года назад +16

    drones do not constantly need to broadcast, you can let them fly in autonomous mode and reconnect at a specific time to transmit next part of the mission.

    • @julianshepherd2038
      @julianshepherd2038 2 года назад

      I don't know how you make prediction as it is early days for drone technology.

    • @kirkstinson7316
      @kirkstinson7316 2 года назад +8

      @@julianshepherd2038 early days? Drones have been around for several decades already. Hell, there were very early drones used in WWII. Worn out bombers filled with explosives and flown remotely

    • @torinnbalasar6774
      @torinnbalasar6774 2 года назад +2

      @@julianshepherd2038 I'm pretty sure that to an extent, the MQ9 and similar platforms from the US already do that. It's not exactly an unknown challenge to give a computer GPS coords and it comes up with its own path to the target.

    • @robertharper3754
      @robertharper3754 2 года назад +1

      @@kirkstinson7316, the first ones were being tried out during WW1!!!

    • @thedarksage328
      @thedarksage328 2 года назад +1

      @@julianshepherd2038 You can count on fully autonomous drones being a reality. In that they will fly to and destroy the target without any radio communications that can be jammed. I'm not sure about the legalities of this, but it certainly should be doable.

  • @台灣是一個國家
    @台灣是一個國家 2 года назад +2

    There's a lot to unpack here.
    1) Did the Soviets truly 'sort themselves out' during the First Soviet-Finnish War? Just as with the current invasion of Ukraine, the Soviets start their invasion by attempting a war of maneuver, which failed. The Soviets then change to the only tactic they've had any success with, as in Ukraine, a massive artillery barrage followed by a frontal assault, and a brutal war of attrition. The USSR with a 1939 population of 170 million, could be fought to a stalemate by a poorly equipped Finland with a 1939 population of 3.7 million, is that a success? What Stalin did learn was not to invade a Finland equipped with the latest German weapons during WW2.
    Please note that the conflicts with Finland and Ukraine have more in common than appears at first glance. Finland, as with the Baltic countries and east Poland, had been part of the Russian Empire prior to WW1 and Russian civil war. Stalin considered all these countries illegitimate and Russian territory. Stalin's 1939 demands for Finnish territorial concessions were the equivalent to Putin's 2014 demand of Ukraine, to take a small 'reasonable' bite of those countries, than determine if they could consume the whole. Stalin concluded that a conquest of Finland was not practical, settling for a neutral Finland. Putin came to the opposite conclusion.
    2) Did the Soviets truly 'sort themselves out' during WW2? Is it reasonable to conclude Germany, with a 1939 population of ~80 million, could defeat the USSR, and concurrently occupy most of Europe, and fight a war with the USA and UK, et al? The Soviets used the only tactic they were capable of, massive artillery barrage followed by a frontal assault, and a brutal war of attrition. Aided be massive material support from the USA and UK. In conclusion, the Germans ran out of men before the Soviets.
    3) The Russians, like the Soviets, have only a single tactic, massive artillery barrage followed by a frontal assault, and a brutal war of attrition. Russian military forces have been built around that tactic. NATO weapons and tactics have been built around countering that tactic. Ukraine is using NATO weapons and tactics. Given that Russian methods of command and control don't allow for tactical flexibility and/or a war of maneuver, what exactly will Russians do to 'sort themselves out' in Ukraine?

    • @majungasaurusaaaa
      @majungasaurusaaaa 2 года назад

      Westerners have the silly habit of assuming those with a vastly different culture to be operating with the same logic as they do.

  • @whatsgoingon71
    @whatsgoingon71 2 года назад +2

    Bernhard ripping into new Trek made my day. 🤣

  • @happysalesguy
    @happysalesguy 2 года назад +4

    "The longer the war goes on, the more the Russians sort themselves out." is exactly what worries me the most.

    • @treborsirrah7916
      @treborsirrah7916 2 года назад

      Normally true but the Russians are so corrupt and incompetent it won't happen, their morale is on the floor

    • @happysalesguy
      @happysalesguy 2 года назад

      @@treborsirrah7916, from your keyboard to the eyes of the gods...

    • @brianmead7556
      @brianmead7556 2 года назад

      The funny fails like Russians losing their tanks because they got arrested when they stopped for gas, and assault convoys halting because the lead truck got a flat tire from not being pumped up have been gone for months. Now it's just sad fails, like Ukrainian troops driving directly into gunbattles using civilian cars because their armor got blown up in the fall offensive, and Ukrainian troops get killed in shootouts with local cops protecting their people from them.

  • @cwjian90
    @cwjian90 2 года назад +5

    The MG you are thinking of is the MG 42/59.

    • @willw8011
      @willw8011 2 года назад

      I think it was the MG-3

    • @GARDENER42
      @GARDENER42 2 года назад

      @@willw8011 Then there was the MG4*3, which was an MG42 converted to 7.62 NATO (the * overstamped the 2 on the receiver).

  • @richardnicklin654
    @richardnicklin654 2 года назад +18

    Yet more on air assault: the attack on Point Salines airfield in Grenada (Operation Urgent Fury) was a successful parachute insertion in 1983. Even crazier: the Rangers had to replan their assault while airborne, initially planned to land at the airfield and switched to parachutes after seeing the runway blocked.
    During the Rhodesian Bush War parachute landings were performed to great tactical effect by the RLI (in so-called “fire force” tactics).

    • @mnk9073
      @mnk9073 2 года назад +6

      Not sure you can brag about Urgent Fury, putting up Rangers against two dozen cuban engineers and a handful of Grenadian security guards is like putting up the Yankees against your daughter's little league team...

    • @gwtpictgwtpict4214
      @gwtpictgwtpict4214 2 года назад

      @@mnk9073 So the Americans did it right then. Also didn't see any 'bragging' in @Richard Nicklin's post, just reporting what happened.

    • @neiltitmus9744
      @neiltitmus9744 2 года назад +4

      @@mnk9073 and it still went sideways

  • @jolemaire6629
    @jolemaire6629 2 года назад +2

    love your star trek comparison :)

  • @russwoodward8251
    @russwoodward8251 Год назад

    I appreciate the discussion. Thank you.

  • @jmullner76
    @jmullner76 2 года назад +4

    Missing a timestamp where Bernard loses it on how bad Star Trek has gotten. AND HE IS RIGHT!

  • @jimmiller5600
    @jimmiller5600 2 года назад +12

    Our propaganda is marketing. The other guy's propaganda is disinformation.

  • @curthenderson6407
    @curthenderson6407 2 года назад +44

    As a retired USAF combat cameraman who's last deployment was in Iraq (with US Army)during the "Surge" here's an observation about information warfare. We put a lot of effort into combating enemy propaganda by gathering info to show people on both sides what was really going on. Put simply, we fought lies and misperceptions by showing the truth. Seeing alot of this in Ukraine.

    • @ssgtmole8610
      @ssgtmole8610 2 года назад +5

      How much paperwork did you have to file with Command before publishing a video? Did you have the "Good Morning Vietnam" censor red penciling your edit?

    • @christosswc
      @christosswc 2 года назад

      "What was really going on", as if to say "we were the good guys and the truth personalized".
      But we don't believe in Fairy Tales.
      Reality of it was you had no business being there, as usual, and were fighting the information war trying to justify your invasion.
      The US got their lesson in Vietnam about the importance of controlling information in the media and the West have become a modern personization of Goebels during this conflict.

    • @RobBCactive
      @RobBCactive 2 года назад +1

      Yet despite that there are still people, even friendly Ukraine war commentators who have bought into the simplistic idea that the US invaded Afghanistan essentially out of aggression rather than with a real purpose. I felt compelled to respond sketchung out the reasons and how Iraq essentially lost the info battle once Saddam's bluff on retained WMD was exposed.
      Even in a co-combatant country the Iraq invasion is regarded as bogus and a strategic error. The ICC on Blair "insufficient evidence of war crimes for trial" is not regarded as an exoneration.
      The Kremlin propaganda machine has often been able to frame the common narratives, because simple takes have appeal.
      The Taliban first achieved dominance in civil war with foreign money and other states had interests to undermine any stability. Yet it's the attempt to improve life in Afghanistan that takes the common criticism.

    • @ssgtmole8610
      @ssgtmole8610 2 года назад

      @@RobBCactive Uh, Sadam didn't bluff. Bush/Cheney, etc. lied about WMDs. No one in america thinks about the still ongoing war in iraq. Another hole the warmongers in america are pissing money into - for their own profit. 🙄

    • @RobBCactive
      @RobBCactive 2 года назад

      @@ssgtmole8610 Saddam wanted doubt, he did bluff that he retained such tech to bolster the strongman image necessary to rule by fear.
      That's why they wouldn't allow access to the "palace" sites, and probably had disinformation around that would be sold to foreign intelligence services.
      Bush/Cheney lied less, made a case for regime change. The neo Cons had been openly advocating invading Iraq in 1996 to gain strategic advantages so Bush's claim about Iraqi funding of terrorism in 2001 was met with scepticism and dismay.
      It looked like a diversion and a strategic error which was extremely risky. In 1991 when the WMD was discovered there was a far better case to intervene but wise heads prevailed pointing out the difficulty of administering an occupation and the unravelling of the coalition that such would cause.

  • @raylast3873
    @raylast3873 2 года назад +2

    I think the question of whether or not it is necessary to fight is a political question which in most countries the people being asked to fight will ultimately have a mind of their own about. If not on the first day then certainly once things start to go wrong. Self-defense is usually a popular position, however.

  • @snekkel
    @snekkel 2 года назад +1

    Nice :-) loving the DS9 reference..

  • @Deilwynna
    @Deilwynna 2 года назад +3

    there are ukrainian battalions training on nato equipment and nato tactics in the uk, being trained under swedish officers no less, at least from information that was mentioned on swedish news about a month ago. i believe there is also a group of ukrainian paratroopers being trained by parts of the american 82nd airborne division in poland.
    about the unmanned suicide boats, i think they use a starlink satellite internet connection for control connection to it rather than any kind of radio connection, starlink uses narrow band phase-shift antennas so it will be harder to jam its signal without being almost in the direct line of communication

    • @davidty2006
      @davidty2006 2 года назад

      Theres quite a few NATO countries training up troops.
      Though some reason everyone has picked the UK. Might be because of scotland existing....

  • @powerblimse
    @powerblimse 2 года назад +4

    The Scene that Bernard ist talking about @17:00 is probably this one.
    DS9 Season 7 episode 8 The Siege of AR-558:
    ruclips.net/video/-D2SHNqkjbY/видео.html

  • @robertillston2350
    @robertillston2350 2 года назад +38

    The only successful "terror bombing" incident one MIGHT consider, and I would understand why this may be considered a special case, was the atomic bombing of Japan to end WW2.

    • @Yordleton
      @Yordleton 2 года назад +8

      I recommend watching a video by the youtuber "Shaun" which does a really good job of explaining and showing that Japan was essentially defeated and there was no military reason to bomb it. Even Curtis "Bombs away" LeMay said the atomic bombs were unnecessary despite him being one of the biggest supporters of the strategic bombing of population centers.

    • @slimdiddyd
      @slimdiddyd 2 года назад +4

      Guernica in the Spanish civil war as well, but your point stands nonetheless

    • @cleanerben9636
      @cleanerben9636 2 года назад +10

      @@Yordleton Lol poor Shaun. The Japanese were not defeated. They were going to continue the war no matter what.

    • @Talashaoriginal
      @Talashaoriginal 2 года назад +5

      @@cleanerben9636 Says who? Don't forget the conventional bombing of Tokio was as deadly as Hiroshima and deadlier than Nagasaki.

    • @shaneintheuk2026
      @shaneintheuk2026 2 года назад

      I was just going to say the same thing.

  • @patrickshanley4466
    @patrickshanley4466 2 года назад

    Outstanding guys!! Would like to see more of this..

  • @User-zo4yi
    @User-zo4yi 2 года назад

    great editing of the audio, so everyone is clearly understandable!