As a New Yorker, I really hope I am able to see the full Second Ave subway to completion. They took forever with Phase 1 and took 4 years to start Phase 2. Also still don't know why the MTA hasn't considered building a Bronx-Queens subway connection that skips Manhattan
I hardly ever go to the Bronx, but I agree that's a good idea. Maybe run a line under the Triborough Bridge. Could have a transfer to the N&W at Astoria Blvd.
The Amsterdam north-south metro has cost 3.5 billion dollars for a stretch of 10 km and I thought nothing could top that. But this is 1.7 billion per km 😅
In LA the purple line subway extension will cost much less the New York’s, and it is around 14km, not all subways cost this much, New York has unique challenges that up the costs
@@jarheadmstr don't forget Manhattan has different types of bed rock especially Manhattan schist. Which is good for skyscrapers horrible for digging tunnels.
@@itsjonny1744 this is true, Manhattan is much more densely populated, but LA can build more subway because of the cheaper costs, thus serving more people, although New York’s would probably still serve more people considering the layout of LA
This channel actually makes me appreciate the complexity of civilization and the genius at work to keep it going. It’s my favorite channel. Well done🏆🌟👏
The reason I think your channel does so well is that, one the material is top notch, and two you don't beg for subscriptions and the notification bell. Just mention at the end of you like this subscribe. Excellent work.
And he lies about whatever he’s talking about to make it seem more impressive, but let’s forget about that 👍 Edit: This tunnel isn’t expensive because of any engineering challenges, it’s expensive because of political/government reasons, high union salaries, and ridiculous government regulations that only exist to make it more expensive.
@@jeffw8218 I see what you're saying with the edit but I don't think that makes the video invalid or a lie. It could be similar if he made a video about how cheap Chinese transit is but then he probably wouldn't mention that the government could just take privately owned land for the project.
Thank you for explaining why it’s so expensive. The population density and the care that needs to be taken when digging under ground needs to be understood. Not to mention the reinforcements for the buildings
This isn't unique to New York, or the US, though. Similarly expensive and much denser cities, in other democratic service economies, with better worker benefits and tougher safety protocols, manage to build subways for less per kilometre. They're in less car-dependent countries in general, so maybe they just have more experience with transport projects, or maybe it's about economies of scale. But I'm still not sure about the real reason transport projects are so incredibly expensive in the US, especially given that they typically dodge local commercial centres and existing transport infrastructure. The car dependence is a costly and unsustainable social problem, so we need to figure it out. The fact that nobody wanted to talk about the 2nd Ave project gives me pause.
I think it was B1M or another similar channel, they really showed how the boring underneath buildings, streets are done and the why and reasons above ground structures are built a certain way to withstand leaning and sinking, etc. It was so amazing. 😊
When most of the subway was built over 100 years ago the tunnels were dug next to 3-story wood or brick buildings. Now new tunnels are dug next to 20-story concrete buildings. Stabilizing the soil while digging tunnels is a lot harder.
This is the same kind of issue you face in London too. The new Crossrail project cost so god damn much because of all the crap now above and below the surface that the original lines just didn't have to deal with.
@@emjayay South of the Thames is mostly chalk and gravel. Much of it used to be marshland before it was drained and developed. That's one of the reasons for so many viaducts and fewer tunnels compared to the north, where as you say, is clay.
Never mind that they're not even digging through soil. They're digging through volcanic rock. The stuff is ridiculously hard, which is why Manhattan can even have such tall skyscrapers. You don't need to dig that far down to hid bedrock that's so stable, it hasn't shifted much in the past 60 million years. But tunneling through that? Yeesh! It's actually easier to tunnel through a mountain in The Alps, since they're mainly sedimentary rock.
The Naples and Rome metros in Italy, despite delays, have also been very interesting to follow; the new stations in Naples are beautiful and really an engineering marvel.
@@MeMe-mp3jj Same; though the constraints (available space/adjacent infrastructure) placed on the stations in NYC may play a part, the aesthetic and layout of the new stations there is kinda bland. The Toledo station in the Napoli Metro is absolutely stunning, and the geography the had to work around was complex and irregular.
8:30 I cannot help but think of your channel every time I see those 2 buildings in the background. You've made a permanent mark in my mind when it comes to architecture/construction in New York
The editing in these videos alone is impressive. Not to mention the consistently excellent narration! So proud to see what the B1M has become! Can’t wait to see where it will go!
The stretch of the Second Ave Subway was actually cut and cover dug during the 1970’s. There are sections other sections of the line reaching downtown that have been constructed since 1920. It behooves the NYC riding public to demand that these sections finally be connected into the currently running section.
To put into perspective, it took the city of Shenzhen 16 years to built 11 lines with 283 stations, and five more new lines under construction will be completed by 2023.
With an attitude for advancement and following the leaders (not specific to China) its easier to build new infrastructure. I think currently many western people have an attitude to it works why spend money on something I dont use. Here in Switzerland there is currently a project for building a underground cargo transport system. Amazingly there is now even a law which regulates and should make it easier to build such infrastructure. It will still take at least 10 years to complete the first part if ever.
To be fair a lot of that happened while the city itself was also growing at extremely rapid pace. China also has an easier time getting the land rights to do it as they either own it already or just use eminent domain to take it if the owner doesn't want to sell. That kind of thing is political suicide in the US (and west in general).
It's a complicated perspective. Adding on to an existing project is usually going to more expensive than a green-field project. Esp. when you have a government with near totalitarian power supporting that project and worker wages far lower than in the West. It is an impressive feat of organization and efficiency, sure. But it's comparing Apples and Oranges. The London or Tokyo project are more apt comparisons for perspective.
@@RC2225 NYC built the entire transit system we know now in 35 years, actually more than exists today as they tore down ELs. So in a way Shenzhen is NYC 1890.
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The problem is they don't need to build crazy large and fancy stations. Just a normal underground station is fine. They could save billions of dollars. They also had multiple contractors working on phase one which isn't very cost efficient.
They went way too deep underground to “cut vibrations and noise” (it’s the CITY who cares!), and then built two full length levels… the entrances are at both ends, and the elevators are in the middle even though only one end has the elevator to the street… that makes no sense, just have two smaller mezzanines with maybe a service tunnel in between and stick the elevator in the mezzanine with the street access.
Actually if you have multiple contractors, it brings down the cost and keep the quality intact. It is also easier to do quality checks. In India a metro is usually divided into many phases and with each phase being awarded to multiple contractors. And Delhi metro has some very beautiful stations and are big too. Though not as big as Chinese.
@@joermnyc The trains from Queens going to Manhattan needed to go under the 7 line. That all by itself was 500 million or more. It was a major construction problem. There was less than 20 foot difference to street level with the elevated line that could not be shut down.
You skipped the single most expensive feature of tunneling in NYC: featherbedding. Foreign subway builders who come to watch the subway being built are amazed at the enormous crews who mostly stand around all day doing nothing, at very high wages. The unions have a stranglehold on city administrations, and the only way anything gets built is to give in to their extortionate demands. The Times did an extensive article on the subject a couple of years ago.
That article was about the east side access project. But yes you are right. I believe there were guys being paid 1000$ a day to watch the elevators. Not manning them. Watch them
@Ryker Well, the sandhogs themselves do get looked after in NY. They would probably say that there aren't enough real jobs in the tunnels to keep them all gainfully employed, so they'll take what they can get. You might think they could find jobs on other projects elsewhere, but they're mostly already taken, and anyway, why give up such a plum job where they already live? Other construction jobs mostly pay very much less, so they don't want to drop tunnel work. And it's no surprise the subway construction drags on forever - they've got a good thing going!
Lmao do you think they don’t have even more powerful unions in Europe? The unions are like 1/15th of the problem in NYC. It’s been incompetent administration and having only three major contractors that agree to slice up the pie. Read the article “Why New York Can’t Have Nice Things”
@@EliasSchultz-tg5ko Interesting article. Granted, overstaffing with sandhogs is only part of the problem, and the article gives a raft of other reasons. But despite being a country famous for labor troubles, the French manage to build their Metros quicker, cheaper, and with rational crew sizes - no featherbedding.
Lived in NYC for 30 years, now in Tokyo for the past 7+ years. I am simply baffled as what is taking so long and how deplorable NYC's transit system looks. Unreal
When do they shut down the Tokyo subway system? See, that's what I never hear mentioned when people compare subway systems: how long they shut down each night. You know, as a former resident, that the NYC subway _never_ shuts down. There's a train travelling every line at all hours. And nobody who lives in NYC is going to give that availability up. So again, when do they shut down the Tokyo subway system? Or close stations? I can't think of a single station in Manhattan that actually ever closes. Certain entryways will close, but for security reasons. The station itself will stay open.
@@John_Weiss Tokyo Subways shut down the lines every night at 11:30 pm - 530am At which point they clean the stations, conduct track repairs and any upgrade that needs to be done. They recently had to shut down the Yamanote line ( day time, due to a massive track upgrade at Shibuya ) only for a few hours. Have you seen what a train stations at 2am in NYC look like ? empty and honestly a bit dangerous. Shutting down the systems also creates opportunity for cabs as well.
@@elysiumcore True, true. Some lines may have very, very few riders at 3am. But, I ask again: do you think that The City that Never Sleeps is going to give up 24/7 subway service? Maybe in another 50 years, when so many native New Yawkers have decided to leave and an influx of people from elsewhere in the US move in and (1) want NYC to be a driving-city like LA and not the walking-city it traditionally has been; (2) decide that public transportation is only for "poor-people" [read: non-whites] and refuse to use it unless it's "cleaned up" [read: physically cleaned and swept-free of the poor [read: non-whites]]. But if that happens, NYC won't be NYC anymore. That leads to another question: Let's say that tomorrow, everyone in all 5 boroughs has a change of heart and is willing to get rid of 24/7 service so that the system can shut down _completely_ to clean all of the stations and do some basic track-maintenance. Who's going to pay for that? Who's going to accept the increase in taxes needed to pay all of those new workers cleaning the stations? I live upstate, and there's already _plenty_ of resentment about the tax we pay to help with the upkeep of Metro-North and the MTA, since "only people who work in The City benefit" from it. Can you _imagine_ the uproar there'd be from people up here over having to pay for the system being cleaned?!?!?!
Yes, please. My county could really use a loop, hop on/hop off, bus system to link transit hubs, major employers, shopping, colleges and residential areas. We have to drive everywhere. I live 3 blocks from the only freeway/public transit hub, and it takes up to 30 minutes, in normal conditions, to get there, I could and have walked there six times faster. They recently put in a train crossing this corridor, stupidly, so we just sit in our cars, not moving anywhere, waiting for empty, one-car trains to come and go. The train has no destinations that anyone wants to go to, costs $15 to go to the next station, and is barely ever used.
With all of these expenses going on with the subway expansions, they need to expand either the 5 or 6 line towards Co-op City, or have a commuter stop there, because that's long overdue
$1.7 Billions per kilometer is a slap on the face of Americans taxpayers. The amount of kickbacks and fees is insane, all of the parties involved are in to see who can rip the most amount of money while offering as little as possible. Great video tho.
Indeed. Think of all the struggling people working two jobs just to pay for this wasteful project. Thank goodness the uber-wealthy on Sutton Place no longer need to walk three blocks for a train.
it's important to put it into context of $82.4 billion being the tax revenue of new york per year. (which has shrunk only by $0.5 billion during covid) That's like 2% of the annual tax revenue, to hire construction. The rest goes to paying other state employees. This is how NYC spends money by order of most to least: Pension & Fringe Benefits 19% Educations 29% Social Services 19% Police, Fire & Corrections 9% Health, Sanitation & Environmental Protection 9% Debt Service 6% General Government 6% Transportation & Housing 2% Recreation & Cultural 1%
In the ‘70s they did build some tunnels, phase 2 will use a tunnel from 110th street to 120th streets, though they will modify this at 118th street to have an option for a connection to the Bronx. (There’s another tunnel and station shell in Chinatown that became notorious a few years ago when someone broke in and held a huge rave in there despite it missing things like railings and stairs in places with massive drop offs).
That's correct....I remember them doing some cut and cover work on the lower part of 2nd avenue when I was a kid in the 70s. I believe there are 2 or 3 stations down there as well with nothing more than concrete platforms and possibly a road bed in some state of completion. Unfortunately they didn't get too far.
To get construction through voting, you have to lowball the government, or it won't get approved. That also means you lie and say you can make this cheaper than you actually can. Then you have experts who will have to fix your project, delaying it and making it more expensive.
@@ayoCC Yeah, another sad fact....possibly. My daughter is a construction engineer who reviews building plans like this daily. She estimates costs and realistic cost projections. She can tell you what a project should cost based local factors. NYC is a nightmare! Corruption is so deep in that city. Things shouldn't be like this in America.
Or how about the Great Train Express in Seoul. It’s an upcoming hybrid of a subway and higher speed rail. 120 mile network with over 30 stations mostly tunneled for $11 billion USD.
You visited my city! Hope you enjoyed the absolute best & worst NYC has to offer. Having lived here, there's very rarely anything in between the magnificent and the awful. NYC is making a big mistake with these giant stations. Instead, prudence would mean they could do more stops with just mezzanines at each entrance area rather than full length concourses.
The IND's habit of building quad-track lines had nothing on the IND's habit of building stations with full mezzanines (you can see one example of such being repurposed partway through development along Fulton Street in Brooklyn). While both are certainly expensive, at least quad-tracking from jump future-proofs a line, whereas full mezzanines merely make it somewhat easier to tack on a transfer (by the time you reach the point where said mezzanines would make any sense, you'd be better off finding a way to move more people at once).
@@sonicboy678 And the numerous IND mezzanines that are unused like on the F train (7 Av/9 St) for example. It's simpler and better to have a mezz for each entrance. Doesn't change access but does mean the same $$ can be for several more miles/km.
You know.what would be better for NYC? A new line to connect Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn on the eastern side of the city without a need to go through Manhattan for such journeys. Not everyone works in Manhattan and there is no line that provides such a connection now. That's really wired for such a huge network.
actually, the best thing would be to hire some people that arent corrupt to do the work. that way taxpayers from 3,000 miles away don't have to pay for this city's bullcrap
Man exactly… doesn’t make sense why they never did it … ridership would be the same .. there are plenty of trains with low ridership and redundancies so I don’t see why a train from queens to bx would be an issue … heck They should just expand the 7 line from flushing with a new tunnel and train that goes from flushing to the Bronx …
There was that plan called the Triboro line that connected the 3 boroughs through existing rail lines used for freight. It'd make perfect sense to upgrade those lines to accommodate passenger service.
The big problem with the 2nd Ave. Subway is that _they tore down the elevated 2nd Ave. railway line_ before building its replacement, leaving a huge chunk of the East Side without a subway line. And leaving an overburdened Lexington-Ave line trying to shoulder the rest of the East Side. I have _zero_ hope of ever seeing the 2nd Ave. Subway extended south of where it ends now. I don't even know if the planning stages for that part of it have even started. Or if there's any intention to start.
Amazing video! Couple things to add… the Q train was actually extended from 57th St/7th Av. The Q train had never run through Lex/63rd Street before the renovations. It’s also crucial to look at the impacts (both positive and negative) that construction had on the businesses of Second Avenue. Especially those located around the stations where construction was more visible. Living near second avenue, I can confidently say that this was a really impactful project and (re)connected a neighborhood to NY’s transit system. Amazing to see it covered here! Thanks so much!
I actually visited phase 1 in 2014 with my class of civil engineers during our 3 weeks in USA. It was pretty interesting and most people will never know how huge caverns there were before everything was built. Also Helsinki was building subway extension at same time so I could do little bit of visual comparison.
Just so you get an idea of the costs, one of the newest metros in the world, the one in Quito Ecuador just finished construction. It is 22km long. It cost about 2.5 billion dollars, total. About 113 million per km. The includes the cost of building 15 stations too. And of course, this price is the "overpriced" figure, initial budget was around 1.5 billion for the entire project. New York citizens just got ripped off hard, simple as that.
What's the cost of living in Ecuador? Labor is usually a huge (if not the biggest) cost of a project and if you're paying construction workers living in NYC rather than in Ecuador it's tough to say they were "ripped off" without adjusting for local cost of living.
Francisco Galárraga It would be terrific if B1M were to do videos on various infrastructure projects in Latin America. The Tren Maya in Yucatan and the metros in cities such as Santiago, Chile; Quito, Ecuador and Santo Domingo, La Republica Dominicana, amongst others, all spring to mind.
@@KyleMc16 Local cost of living doesn't explain why NYC subway construction costs about 5 times as much as in Europe. NY citizens were ripped off by Union rules requiring contractors to use about 4 times as many laborers as elsewhere in the world.
@@slickvik4508 Switzerland lacks true subways but the mainline 14.5 km Ceneri tunnel inaugurated 12 months ago cost less than $4 billion. The Gateway Program adding two tracks between Penn Stations in Newark and NYC with a much shorter 3 km tunnel under the Hudson river is expected to cost $14.5 billion. With the expected cost overrun, the 18 km Gateway Program will cost more than 1211 km of HSR lines between the Chunnel Tunnel and Marseille ($17 billion once adjusted for inflation). The NYTimes/B Rosenthal enquiry about "the most expensive mile of subway on earth" published Dec 28, 2017 suggested the 5x ratio. It is well worth reading but, in my opinion, the 5x number is on the low side.
As a Houston resident I really have no place to talk about Subway systems but I will say what I enjoyed most about being on Tokyo subway versus New Yorks was I didn't have to worry about getting peed on
5:37 "back in the "old days....." they built the 6th Ave IND line WHILE the El was still there, and with uninterrupted service, and around an existing line, H&M, and over Penn and IRT lines, and Midtown had more people, NYC just doesnt have the will to build and reduce costs.
So wonderful to finally put a face to "THE B1M". Magnificent voice. Excellent narration. And you should really appear on camera more often. Handsome guy!
Thank Robert Moses for the lack of subway expansion from the late 1920s through the post-World War II era. During this time, Moses was concentrating on new highway infrastructure, such as the Triborough Bridge.
While I like the nyc subway, it is very outdated and old is very bad. I ride in it everyday and the subway is crumbling they need to fix a lot of stations and modernize it. But that probably won’t happen in our lifetime.
@@sm3675 Throwing more money at the problem won't fix it, there needs to be a change in the system itself. IMO we would have seen all the upgrades we've needed if the MTA was under the jurisdiction of NYC instead of Albany.
I often wonder. Why don't they just charge a bit extra for the subway and use the money for new lines. Here in Copenhagen they put 10% on top of the normal charge in order to finance the next line.
I can't imagine living in such expensive, crowded and noisy conditions. Makes me thankful I live in a rural area in South Texas… My community is made up of surrounding towns totaling about 5k people
Love this channel and its videos! It's always so interesting to see development projects around the world with different purposes, styles and approaches!
Great video. 6 Billion sounds like a lot of money, but it is likely smaller than the immense public cost of personal vehicle transport and related infrastructure that this type of infrastructure will displace over a few years. NYC public transit moves 1.8B (billion) people per year! Amortised costs should be compared, as it would make public infrastructure costs much more attractive, and above all, honest. It sounds expensive, but it likely cheap compared to the alternative.
Yep. The same logic works for HS2 here in the UK. It's a £100billion project over 20 years and will free up an immense amount of rail infrastructure for commuter services and freight that right now is beholden to the high speed inter city trains going up and down the country to and from London. The plan is to make dedicated lines for these trains and leave the existing lines for local services. People just see the £100billion and hear the "it's 20 mins faster to London" line that's parroted over and over by the ignorant main stream media (especially the BBC) and are totally ignorant to the bigger picture changes or more subtle aspects of it all. Instead they demand they just "upgrade" the "existing network". Wtf do they think it is if not an upgrade? It's a brand new, totally dedicated high speed line. How is that not an upgrade? Also upgrading existing lines means delays for years while they shut it to work on it in stages all for a minuscule amount of improvement. It won't actually improve capacity like HS2 will.
@@TalesOfWar 100%. It's very similar to dissonant conversations surrounding public health care spending. Privatised healthcare (ie. US) sounds cheaper because people often compare individual out-of-pocket spending to the comparatively huge figures for social/communal healthcare costs, until you compare the end results. In per-capita healthcare, it's not even close: for example, the US spends NEARLY DOUBLE per-capita than my native Canada, and many of its citizens are still without adequate coverage! Public transport (eg. HS2) is likely very similar. Yes, it _sounds_ expensive, until it is appropriately compared to the alternative, then it seems like a bargain.
@@ManishSinha Definitely. It would also be nice to understand how expensive cars and their infrastructure is. How much more would the powerlines, watermains, bridges, roads, service vehicles and workers, courts, regulatory agencies, health services, etc, etc, do personal vehicles costs? It's one thing to consider the personal cost of purchasing a vehicle, purchasing insurance, and purchasing fuel, but there is a significant burden placed on every tax payer (car owner or not) to support those vehicles.
Mind boggling that the cost is so high, look at Tokyo or Paris, they are building rail super cheap, and also are places that have super high density, I think that those stations could have been more simple in order to not make that proyect even more laughable
Until you realize those cities don't have the buildings that reach the heights that NYC has. The surface of Manhattan is also as hard as bedrock. An underground subway construction project that has to keep disruption on the surface to a bare minimum in a unique geography like NYC is bound to be expensive.
@@nightflyer3242 Hard bedrock is great for tunneling. Waterlogged soft one is worst. NYC is expensive because contractors have to follow Union rules mandating hiring about 4 times as many laborers as elsewhere in the world, and then add some more.
While London (like other cities) has added several new lines and extended many in the past 50 years plus adding a couple other systems, NYC has extended two lines by one station (7) or a few (Q).
@@brll5733 the rock below in manhattan is much harder compared to london, which is much softer clay. this would make any tunnelling in deep levels substantially more expensive in manhattan.
Outstanding video! I'm originally from the City of New York & was always fascinated by subways & the construction of these systems. Looking forward to seeing more videos from you. Thank you & all the best.
I must say, every time I see a new video posted by this channel I stop whatever I'm doing and watch it. This has to be the most interesting channel on RUclips. Keep it up B1M team!
Japan could make it twice as large for half the price and it’d be cleaner, safer and more efficient. Leave it in the hands of American businesses and costs will naturally be inflated. Not only is there a lack of qualified workers due to the lack of tube projects in the us, but the uncommon nature of an underground system means companies can charge premiums for these projects. The thought is that there won’t be many projects like these so they need to charge what they can while they can. If they could expand public transport in the us to include more underground lines, costs would naturally lower over time as the industry expanded and attracted drones of workers who specialized in this type of construction. Currently, they’re working with limited workers, massive projects, and limited demand, so prices will be inflated.
Bru your dead ass building in the most expensive city on earth also ofc it’s going to be easier to build in Tokyo or Osaka or any Japanese literally 50 years ago they were completely destroyed unlike new your which had been developing for over 200 years
Don't worry NY. Toronto has done basically nothing to build more subway lines in the core of the city and the population has increased 3 fold. Group hugging city councillors still think streetcars are the solution. I wonder how many wise guys are part of the new line. LOL
@@MrKevinWhite Yah, finally!! LOL. I'm sick of the moving roadblocks they call streetcars. They seem to be perpetually replacing the tracks. It's like that movie the never ending story.
America should do it like us in Europe: the corporations that do 100% of the work will put 5-10% of the money (taken many times back by budget overruns), the taxpayer puts 50%, , the remaining 40-45% is loans to the corporations that the taxpayer has to pay and the corporations will own 100% of the infrastructure for the next 50 years. Brilliant.
When I see video of NYC streets, I remember my early 20's paying rent and surviving off 1 dollar pizza and street car coffee because the jobs did not pay enough to actually live in the city. I remember watching the sea of 20 somethings rush to work, skip lunch, and rush home. 2nd Ave is already well connected to the subway, how about NYC give the poor folks in queens better systems and better zoning so everyone and their mom doesn't have to commute downtown. New Urbanism has been around for decades people.
Exactly.. taking the N train from queens to Manhattan to Brooklyn is such a long ass headache . When we should have a train Thts goes right to Brooklyn… plenty of ppl commute from Brooklyn to queens , just like ppl Commute from Manhattan to the Bronx .
when you are bad at building things, it just becomes vey expensive. Many countries have built subway with much cheaper price in more congested cities. Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai etc. all have built subway with much smaller budget and shorter time. Go learn from them.
Going through my emails at lunch just now. The B1M notification just now. Click and watch, important emails......later maybe! Love your channel. Keep up the great work.
I'm so annoyed by how inefficient everything is in this country (US). The corruption with everyone having their hands out makes everything more expensive, annoying citizen complaints that lock things up in our inefficient court system for years, and over-regulations. I'm glad to see some progress being made but it sometimes feels like we're living in bloated Rome right before the fall.
I fkn love this channel
Same!
Me too
Neraysho Kasanwirjo
My exact words at the end. I wish I was in construction so I could use his sponsor's software, lol.
Hell yes brother.
As a New Yorker, I really hope I am able to see the full Second Ave subway to completion. They took forever with Phase 1 and took 4 years to start Phase 2. Also still don't know why the MTA hasn't considered building a Bronx-Queens subway connection that skips Manhattan
Wouldn’t it be great a tram? In 2nd Avenue.
Less expensive and takes less time
@@oscaralejandrotorresaguila5886 A tram underground? A subway is the best option in NYC
A Queens- Bronx bypass of Manhattan could have been done via the Triborough Bridge. But, Robert Moses would never have permitted it.
I hardly ever go to the Bronx, but I agree that's a good idea. Maybe run a line under the Triborough Bridge. Could have a transfer to the N&W at Astoria Blvd.
@@AgathaLOutahere the Triboro Rx proposal calls for trains to be alongside freight rail.
godamn your voice is so iconic, great to see how far B1M Has done!
Thank you so much!
Doesn’t matter USA is better lol
I want him to narrate my life.☺️
I remember it was less than 100k followers😅
@@TheB1M - it is very smooth and chill... Barry White style 😎 🎵
The Amsterdam north-south metro has cost 3.5 billion dollars for a stretch of 10 km and I thought nothing could top that. But this is 1.7 billion per km 😅
In LA the purple line subway extension will cost much less the New York’s, and it is around 14km, not all subways cost this much, New York has unique challenges that up the costs
What's interesting is that the money China used to build high-speed rail in the past 20 years was only 2/3 of the Iraq War !!
@@jarheadmstr New Yorks would serve far more pepole though, idk if you could split it on ridership, would LA still be cheaper?
@@jarheadmstr don't forget Manhattan has different types of bed rock especially Manhattan schist. Which is good for skyscrapers horrible for digging tunnels.
@@itsjonny1744 this is true, Manhattan is much more densely populated, but LA can build more subway because of the cheaper costs, thus serving more people, although New York’s would probably still serve more people considering the layout of LA
Would love to see a series following the notre dame project - it's going to be really interesting to see how they work over the next 10-20 years
Yes, please!
Definitely
Brilliant suggestion.
It's gonna take 10-20 yrs???
With hyperloop and tesla tunnel subways is nonsense
This channel actually makes me appreciate the complexity of civilization and the genius at work to keep it going. It’s my favorite channel. Well done🏆🌟👏
Tell that to the Chinese...
The reason I think your channel does so well is that, one the material is top notch, and two you don't beg for subscriptions and the notification bell. Just mention at the end of you like this subscribe. Excellent work.
He’s just so well spoken and professional
And he lies about whatever he’s talking about to make it seem more impressive, but let’s forget about that 👍
Edit: This tunnel isn’t expensive because of any engineering challenges, it’s expensive because of political/government reasons, high union salaries, and ridiculous government regulations that only exist to make it more expensive.
@@jeffw8218 Examples, please?
@@jeffw8218 Triggered murican.
@@jeffw8218 I see what you're saying with the edit but I don't think that makes the video invalid or a lie. It could be similar if he made a video about how cheap Chinese transit is but then he probably wouldn't mention that the government could just take privately owned land for the project.
Thank you for explaining why it’s so expensive. The population density and the care that needs to be taken when digging under ground needs to be understood. Not to mention the reinforcements for the buildings
Too true. For better or worse, planning approvals make it much more timely and costly to get these projects moving.
This isn't unique to New York, or the US, though. Similarly expensive and much denser cities, in other democratic service economies, with better worker benefits and tougher safety protocols, manage to build subways for less per kilometre. They're in less car-dependent countries in general, so maybe they just have more experience with transport projects, or maybe it's about economies of scale. But I'm still not sure about the real reason transport projects are so incredibly expensive in the US, especially given that they typically dodge local commercial centres and existing transport infrastructure. The car dependence is a costly and unsustainable social problem, so we need to figure it out. The fact that nobody wanted to talk about the 2nd Ave project gives me pause.
I think it was B1M or another similar channel, they really showed how the boring underneath buildings, streets are done and the why and reasons above ground structures are built a certain way to withstand leaning and sinking, etc. It was so amazing. 😊
@@nomadMik well it must be something about the contracting then and organization. Maybe there’s a massive overcharge
Well now that they don't have to spend trillions on Afghanistan ofc they have money duh
When most of the subway was built over 100 years ago the tunnels were dug next to 3-story wood or brick buildings. Now new tunnels are dug next to 20-story concrete buildings. Stabilizing the soil while digging tunnels is a lot harder.
This is the same kind of issue you face in London too. The new Crossrail project cost so god damn much because of all the crap now above and below the surface that the original lines just didn't have to deal with.
I soiled myself reading this
@@TalesOfWar London of course is built on clay, not schist rock so it is a different situation.
@@emjayay South of the Thames is mostly chalk and gravel. Much of it used to be marshland before it was drained and developed. That's one of the reasons for so many viaducts and fewer tunnels compared to the north, where as you say, is clay.
Never mind that they're not even digging through soil. They're digging through volcanic rock. The stuff is ridiculously hard, which is why Manhattan can even have such tall skyscrapers. You don't need to dig that far down to hid bedrock that's so stable, it hasn't shifted much in the past 60 million years.
But tunneling through that? Yeesh! It's actually easier to tunnel through a mountain in The Alps, since they're mainly sedimentary rock.
The Naples and Rome metros in Italy, despite delays, have also been very interesting to follow; the new stations in Naples are beautiful and really an engineering marvel.
Exactly, considering the cost, I'm a bit disappointed by these New York new stations look.
@@MeMe-mp3jj
Same; though the constraints (available space/adjacent infrastructure) placed on the stations in NYC may play a part, the aesthetic and layout of the new stations there is kinda bland. The Toledo station in the Napoli Metro is absolutely stunning, and the geography the had to work around was complex and irregular.
8:30 I cannot help but think of your channel every time I see those 2 buildings in the background. You've made a permanent mark in my mind when it comes to architecture/construction in New York
Hugging grandmas at 4:50 just made my heart warm
I'm glad that The 2nd Phase is finally happening but it costs way too much.
Love watching this channel, great quality videos with huge passion going into this, keep it up!!
The editing in these videos alone is impressive. Not to mention the consistently excellent narration! So proud to see what the B1M has become! Can’t wait to see where it will go!
The stretch of the Second Ave Subway was actually cut and cover dug during the 1970’s. There are sections other sections of the line reaching downtown that have been constructed since 1920. It behooves the NYC riding public to demand that these sections finally be connected into the currently running section.
To put into perspective, it took the city of Shenzhen 16 years to built 11 lines with 283 stations, and five more new lines under construction will be completed by 2023.
With an attitude for advancement and following the leaders (not specific to China) its easier to build new infrastructure. I think currently many western people have an attitude to it works why spend money on something I dont use. Here in Switzerland there is currently a project for building a underground cargo transport system. Amazingly there is now even a law which regulates and should make it easier to build such infrastructure. It will still take at least 10 years to complete the first part if ever.
I think Chengdu takes the record for building 500km+ of subways in 10 years.
To be fair a lot of that happened while the city itself was also growing at extremely rapid pace. China also has an easier time getting the land rights to do it as they either own it already or just use eminent domain to take it if the owner doesn't want to sell. That kind of thing is political suicide in the US (and west in general).
It's a complicated perspective. Adding on to an existing project is usually going to more expensive than a green-field project. Esp. when you have a government with near totalitarian power supporting that project and worker wages far lower than in the West. It is an impressive feat of organization and efficiency, sure. But it's comparing Apples and Oranges. The London or Tokyo project are more apt comparisons for perspective.
@@RC2225 NYC built the entire transit system we know now in 35 years, actually more than exists today as they tore down ELs. So in a way Shenzhen is NYC 1890.
Could you do a video on the new REM in Montreal maybe? It’s a huge project that’s so fast in construction, I think it would be interesting!
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New York is an incredible city . It deserves a improvement in its already iconic subway
The problem is they don't need to build crazy large and fancy stations. Just a normal underground station is fine. They could save billions of dollars. They also had multiple contractors working on phase one which isn't very cost efficient.
They went way too deep underground to “cut vibrations and noise” (it’s the CITY who cares!), and then built two full length levels… the entrances are at both ends, and the elevators are in the middle even though only one end has the elevator to the street… that makes no sense, just have two smaller mezzanines with maybe a service tunnel in between and stick the elevator in the mezzanine with the street access.
@@joermnyc argree
Actually if you have multiple contractors, it brings down the cost and keep the quality intact. It is also easier to do quality checks. In India a metro is usually divided into many phases and with each phase being awarded to multiple contractors. And Delhi metro has some very beautiful stations and are big too. Though not as big as Chinese.
@@joermnyc i think the vibration could be unsafe or be bad for buildings structure
@@joermnyc The trains from Queens going to Manhattan needed to go under the 7 line. That all by itself was 500 million or more. It was a major construction problem. There was less than 20 foot difference to street level with the elevated line that could not be shut down.
You skipped the single most expensive feature of tunneling in NYC: featherbedding. Foreign subway builders who come to watch the subway being built are amazed at the enormous crews who mostly stand around all day doing nothing, at very high wages. The unions have a stranglehold on city administrations, and the only way anything gets built is to give in to their extortionate demands. The Times did an extensive article on the subject a couple of years ago.
That article was about the east side access project. But yes you are right. I believe there were guys being paid 1000$ a day to watch the elevators. Not manning them. Watch them
@Ryker especially police unions.
@Ryker Well, the sandhogs themselves do get looked after in NY. They would probably say that there aren't enough real jobs in the tunnels to keep them all gainfully employed, so they'll take what they can get. You might think they could find jobs on other projects elsewhere, but they're mostly already taken, and anyway, why give up such a plum job where they already live? Other construction jobs mostly pay very much less, so they don't want to drop tunnel work. And it's no surprise the subway construction drags on forever - they've got a good thing going!
Lmao do you think they don’t have even more powerful unions in Europe? The unions are like 1/15th of the problem in NYC. It’s been incompetent administration and having only three major contractors that agree to slice up the pie. Read the article “Why New York Can’t Have Nice Things”
@@EliasSchultz-tg5ko Interesting article. Granted, overstaffing with sandhogs is only part of the problem, and the article gives a raft of other reasons. But despite being a country famous for labor troubles, the French manage to build their Metros quicker, cheaper, and with rational crew sizes - no featherbedding.
Lived in NYC for 30 years, now in Tokyo for the past 7+ years. I am simply baffled as what is taking so long and how deplorable NYC's transit system looks. Unreal
When do they shut down the Tokyo subway system?
See, that's what I never hear mentioned when people compare subway systems: how long they shut down each night.
You know, as a former resident, that the NYC subway _never_ shuts down. There's a train travelling every line at all hours. And nobody who lives in NYC is going to give that availability up.
So again, when do they shut down the Tokyo subway system? Or close stations? I can't think of a single station in Manhattan that actually ever closes. Certain entryways will close, but for security reasons. The station itself will stay open.
@@John_Weiss Tokyo Subways shut down the lines every night at 11:30 pm - 530am At which point they clean the stations, conduct track repairs and any upgrade that needs to be done. They recently had to shut down the Yamanote line ( day time, due to a massive track upgrade at Shibuya ) only for a few hours. Have you seen what a train stations at 2am in NYC look like ? empty and honestly a bit dangerous. Shutting down the systems also creates opportunity for cabs as well.
@@elysiumcore True, true. Some lines may have very, very few riders at 3am. But, I ask again: do you think that The City that Never Sleeps is going to give up 24/7 subway service?
Maybe in another 50 years, when so many native New Yawkers have decided to leave and an influx of people from elsewhere in the US move in and (1) want NYC to be a driving-city like LA and not the walking-city it traditionally has been; (2) decide that public transportation is only for "poor-people" [read: non-whites] and refuse to use it unless it's "cleaned up" [read: physically cleaned and swept-free of the poor [read: non-whites]]. But if that happens, NYC won't be NYC anymore.
That leads to another question: Let's say that tomorrow, everyone in all 5 boroughs has a change of heart and is willing to get rid of 24/7 service so that the system can shut down _completely_ to clean all of the stations and do some basic track-maintenance.
Who's going to pay for that? Who's going to accept the increase in taxes needed to pay all of those new workers cleaning the stations?
I live upstate, and there's already _plenty_ of resentment about the tax we pay to help with the upkeep of Metro-North and the MTA, since "only people who work in The City benefit" from it. Can you _imagine_ the uproar there'd be from people up here over having to pay for the system being cleaned?!?!?!
All of your videos are incredible, but the NYC ones take the cake. Thank you for the great content!
Proud to be working in project controls department and this channel inspires me like anything for being a civil engineer ❤
Could you do a video on innovative yet mass applicable ways smaller towns ( below100.000) are handling traffic/ shifting it to public transport?
Yes, please. My county could really use a loop, hop on/hop off, bus system to link transit hubs, major employers, shopping, colleges and residential areas. We have to drive everywhere. I live 3 blocks from the only freeway/public transit hub, and it takes up to 30 minutes, in normal conditions, to get there, I could and have walked there six times faster. They recently put in a train crossing this corridor, stupidly, so we just sit in our cars, not moving anywhere, waiting for empty, one-car trains to come and go. The train has no destinations that anyone wants to go to, costs $15 to go to the next station, and is barely ever used.
@@kimberlyperrotis8962 ah shit public transport in the US is piss poor. I live in Vienna which is PT paradise lol
I recently came across this channel! This channel is so informative! Keep up the good work!
Nice! The track matches well with the video and New York.
Love your videos man! They keep getting better! Keep it up!💪
The BQE triple decker is probably going to take just as long! Love the way this city operates!
The B1M is like the Mark Felton for construction projects.
One of my favourite channels
Jakarta has a lot of transport projects going on that you should cover. MRT, LRT, high speed rail, electric buses etc
KAI Commuter is also having upgrades, if I remember correctly.
With all of these expenses going on with the subway expansions, they need to expand either the 5 or 6 line towards Co-op City, or have a commuter stop there, because that's long overdue
$1.7 Billions per kilometer is a slap on the face of Americans taxpayers.
The amount of kickbacks and fees is insane, all of the parties involved are in to see who can rip the most amount of money while offering as little as possible.
Great video tho.
Indeed. Think of all the struggling people working two jobs just to pay for this wasteful project. Thank goodness the uber-wealthy on Sutton Place no longer need to walk three blocks for a train.
it's important to put it into context of $82.4 billion being the tax revenue of new york per year. (which has shrunk only by $0.5 billion during covid)
That's like 2% of the annual tax revenue, to hire construction. The rest goes to paying other state employees.
This is how NYC spends money by order of most to least:
Pension & Fringe Benefits 19%
Educations 29%
Social Services 19%
Police, Fire & Corrections 9%
Health, Sanitation & Environmental Protection 9%
Debt Service 6%
General Government 6%
Transportation & Housing 2%
Recreation & Cultural 1%
The production value of this channel has gone through the roof lately. keep up the great work!
Building in America is generally expensive, just getting the rights and permissions costs half the budget.
Don't forget bribes and kickbacks and an automatic doubling of price just for dealing with the government!
@@PWingert1966 Government red-tape is a real bitch.
unions and friends
@@justme6275 Onions and fruends
@@justme6275 property owners and friends
In the ‘70s they did build some tunnels, phase 2 will use a tunnel from 110th street to 120th streets, though they will modify this at 118th street to have an option for a connection to the Bronx. (There’s another tunnel and station shell in Chinatown that became notorious a few years ago when someone broke in and held a huge rave in there despite it missing things like railings and stairs in places with massive drop offs).
That's correct....I remember them doing some cut and cover work on the lower part of 2nd avenue when I was a kid in the 70s. I believe there are 2 or 3 stations down there as well with nothing more than concrete platforms and possibly a road bed in some state of completion. Unfortunately they didn't get too far.
If you don't wait for Fred's dance at the end, do you even B1M?
Other title: how the MTA can't budget money and pay vast amount in fraudulent overtime pay.
Yeah, they forgot to mention the cost of corruption in NYC.
To get construction through voting, you have to lowball the government, or it won't get approved.
That also means you lie and say you can make this cheaper than you actually can. Then you have experts who will have to fix your project, delaying it and making it more expensive.
@@ayoCC Yeah, another sad fact....possibly.
My daughter is a construction engineer who reviews building plans like this daily. She estimates costs and realistic cost projections. She can tell you what a project should cost based local factors. NYC is a nightmare! Corruption is so deep in that city. Things shouldn't be like this in America.
Always fantastically informative productions with amazing mapping and infographics.
Good to see you back on camera Fred. Like, I really enjoyed your video a while back about the 2 sides of Berlin.
Building a subway in NYC isnt cheap.
But i amazed at how they do it.
But there is a long way to match tokyo
Idk if you even know that the map of tokyo's train network , not only includes the subway itself , but all of the different types of trains
I don't think u need high speed railway to get around new york
Or how about the Great Train Express in Seoul. It’s an upcoming hybrid of a subway and higher speed rail. 120 mile network with over 30 stations mostly tunneled for $11 billion USD.
I had the opportunity to visit Japan. Tokyo's subway system is the most complex and cleanest in the world. Much respect to the Japanese people.
The fact that we get free documentaries on RUclips by The B1M is truly a gift 👍
You visited my city! Hope you enjoyed the absolute best & worst NYC has to offer. Having lived here, there's very rarely anything in between the magnificent and the awful. NYC is making a big mistake with these giant stations. Instead, prudence would mean they could do more stops with just mezzanines at each entrance area rather than full length concourses.
You are living in a city I could only dream to 🙃
The IND's habit of building quad-track lines had nothing on the IND's habit of building stations with full mezzanines (you can see one example of such being repurposed partway through development along Fulton Street in Brooklyn). While both are certainly expensive, at least quad-tracking from jump future-proofs a line, whereas full mezzanines merely make it somewhat easier to tack on a transfer (by the time you reach the point where said mezzanines would make any sense, you'd be better off finding a way to move more people at once).
@@sonicboy678 And the numerous IND mezzanines that are unused like on the F train (7 Av/9 St) for example. It's simpler and better to have a mezz for each entrance. Doesn't change access but does mean the same $$ can be for several more miles/km.
@@navyseal1689 New York is overrated. The best of America is found outside of the Big Apple.
@@navyseal1689 philadelphia is better
I’m loving the on location shots with you in them… feels like a documentary on tv… we need more!
You know.what would be better for NYC? A new line to connect Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn on the eastern side of the city without a need to go through Manhattan for such journeys. Not everyone works in Manhattan and there is no line that provides such a connection now. That's really wired for such a huge network.
I 100% agree.
actually, the best thing would be to hire some people that arent corrupt to do the work. that way taxpayers from 3,000 miles away don't have to pay for this city's bullcrap
Maybe when Rikers closes they can go through there to get to Queens.
Man exactly… doesn’t make sense why they never did it … ridership would be the same .. there are plenty of trains with low ridership and redundancies so I don’t see why a train from queens to bx would be an issue … heck
They should just expand the 7 line from flushing with a new tunnel and train that goes from flushing to the Bronx …
There was that plan called the Triboro line that connected the 3 boroughs through existing rail lines used for freight. It'd make perfect sense to upgrade those lines to accommodate passenger service.
Dude the quality of this channel is unreal. Please keep it up. I feel like I'm missing something haha how are you so great
When I watch a video from The B1M, I always give a like before I press play.
It's always that good!
I love this channel. I love learning about real estate, infrastructure, and subways! Thanks for keeping me informed.
that skinny skyscraper looks crazy
Love watching your videos, b1m. Thanks for all of the information and insight. You're always worth watching when I see you in my feed!
Any future videos about İstanbul? It's the city with the most subway constructions at the same time in the world
The big problem with the 2nd Ave. Subway is that _they tore down the elevated 2nd Ave. railway line_ before building its replacement, leaving a huge chunk of the East Side without a subway line. And leaving an overburdened Lexington-Ave line trying to shoulder the rest of the East Side.
I have _zero_ hope of ever seeing the 2nd Ave. Subway extended south of where it ends now. I don't even know if the planning stages for that part of it have even started. Or if there's any intention to start.
It’s quite innovative how NYC has their transportation systems. Thanks for another great video!
Yes! An in-person video again, and right where I grew up to boot!
Awesome content like always!
Thank you SO MUCH!! 🙌
The Engineering that goes into this is amazing.... WOW!!
Amazing video! Couple things to add… the Q train was actually extended from 57th St/7th Av. The Q train had never run through Lex/63rd Street before the renovations. It’s also crucial to look at the impacts (both positive and negative) that construction had on the businesses of Second Avenue. Especially those located around the stations where construction was more visible. Living near second avenue, I can confidently say that this was a really impactful project and (re)connected a neighborhood to NY’s transit system. Amazing to see it covered here! Thanks so much!
Absolutely amazing! Thanks for the great video!
oh damn, love to see you out on the street for this one
The little dance at 8:53 is like a surprise post-credit movie scene. Loved it!
I hope you enjoyed your stay in the greatest city on earth! :-) I love your videos (especially about NY). Best regards from Germany!
This channel has deservedly blown up! Great to see
I actually visited phase 1 in 2014 with my class of civil engineers during our 3 weeks in USA. It was pretty interesting and most people will never know how huge caverns there were before everything was built. Also Helsinki was building subway extension at same time so I could do little bit of visual comparison.
Wow this channel is getting better and better
Just so you get an idea of the costs, one of the newest metros in the world, the one in Quito Ecuador just finished construction. It is 22km long. It cost about 2.5 billion dollars, total. About 113 million per km. The includes the cost of building 15 stations too. And of course, this price is the "overpriced" figure, initial budget was around 1.5 billion for the entire project. New York citizens just got ripped off hard, simple as that.
What's the cost of living in Ecuador? Labor is usually a huge (if not the biggest) cost of a project and if you're paying construction workers living in NYC rather than in Ecuador it's tough to say they were "ripped off" without adjusting for local cost of living.
Francisco Galárraga
It would be terrific if B1M were to do videos on various infrastructure projects in Latin America. The Tren Maya in Yucatan and the metros in cities such as Santiago, Chile; Quito, Ecuador and Santo Domingo, La Republica Dominicana, amongst others, all spring to mind.
@@KyleMc16 Local cost of living doesn't explain why NYC subway construction costs about 5 times as much as in Europe. NY citizens were ripped off by Union rules requiring contractors to use about 4 times as many laborers as elsewhere in the world.
@@alaindumas1824 Maybe not 5x but NYC wages for labor is much higher than basically all of Europe too. I guess maybe we should compare to Switzerland?
@@slickvik4508 Switzerland lacks true subways but the mainline 14.5 km Ceneri tunnel inaugurated 12 months ago cost less than $4 billion.
The Gateway Program adding two tracks between Penn Stations in Newark and NYC with a much shorter 3 km tunnel under the Hudson river is expected to cost $14.5 billion. With the expected cost overrun, the 18 km Gateway Program will cost more than 1211 km of HSR lines between the Chunnel Tunnel and Marseille ($17 billion once adjusted for inflation).
The NYTimes/B Rosenthal enquiry about "the most expensive mile of subway on earth" published Dec 28, 2017 suggested the 5x ratio. It is well worth reading but, in my opinion, the 5x number is on the low side.
I left NYC in 1973 and never miss it. Ironically, I was on the advisory team for Autodesk, I think it was back in 1976 or 1977.
New York is an expensive name to begin with. So no surprise there.
As a Houston resident I really have no place to talk about Subway systems but I will say what I enjoyed most about being on Tokyo subway versus New Yorks was I didn't have to worry about getting peed on
5:37 "back in the "old days....." they built the 6th Ave IND line WHILE the El was still there, and with uninterrupted service, and around an existing line, H&M, and over Penn and IRT lines, and Midtown had more people, NYC just doesnt have the will to build and reduce costs.
So wonderful to finally put a face to "THE B1M".
Magnificent voice.
Excellent narration.
And you should really appear on camera more often. Handsome guy!
Thank Robert Moses for the lack of subway expansion from the late 1920s through the post-World War II era. During this time, Moses was concentrating on new highway infrastructure, such as the Triborough Bridge.
Mumbai metro line 3 has price tag of less then 6 billion for 34 km including trains, stations, and depot combined.
Was really hoping to see a billion dollar subway sandwich
Not Fred doing a little wiggle at the end 🕺🏻 😆 Great video of my hometown. NYC
While I like the nyc subway, it is very outdated and old is very bad. I ride in it everyday and the subway is crumbling they need to fix a lot of stations and modernize it. But that probably won’t happen in our lifetime.
Yea. There needs to be some federal cash in order to cleanup and remodel the stations. There's too many
@@sm3675 Throwing more money at the problem won't fix it, there needs to be a change in the system itself. IMO we would have seen all the upgrades we've needed if the MTA was under the jurisdiction of NYC instead of Albany.
I often wonder. Why don't they just charge a bit extra for the subway and use the money for new lines.
Here in Copenhagen they put 10% on top of the normal charge in order to finance the next line.
@@Maitch3000 Problem is that people won't ride the subway if they increase the fare
@@nyctransitrailfan Does people have any choice? What's the alternative? Getting stuck in traffic with your car? Walking?
For the remaining sections besides the caverns underneath 125th and Lex you could you can do current cover for most of the route
I can't imagine living in such expensive, crowded and noisy conditions. Makes me thankful I live in a rural area in South Texas… My community is made up of surrounding towns totaling about 5k people
I live in the south as well. It's dull and very isolating growing up in suburbs. I wish I lived in a big city
That's why you gotta move to the surrounding areas of a big city. You can easily commute but still get that suburban life most people like
Love this channel and its videos! It's always so interesting to see development projects around the world with different purposes, styles and approaches!
Great video.
6 Billion sounds like a lot of money, but it is likely smaller than the immense public cost of personal vehicle transport and related infrastructure that this type of infrastructure will displace over a few years. NYC public transit moves 1.8B (billion) people per year!
Amortised costs should be compared, as it would make public infrastructure costs much more attractive, and above all, honest. It sounds expensive, but it likely cheap compared to the alternative.
Yep. The same logic works for HS2 here in the UK. It's a £100billion project over 20 years and will free up an immense amount of rail infrastructure for commuter services and freight that right now is beholden to the high speed inter city trains going up and down the country to and from London. The plan is to make dedicated lines for these trains and leave the existing lines for local services. People just see the £100billion and hear the "it's 20 mins faster to London" line that's parroted over and over by the ignorant main stream media (especially the BBC) and are totally ignorant to the bigger picture changes or more subtle aspects of it all. Instead they demand they just "upgrade" the "existing network". Wtf do they think it is if not an upgrade? It's a brand new, totally dedicated high speed line. How is that not an upgrade? Also upgrading existing lines means delays for years while they shut it to work on it in stages all for a minuscule amount of improvement. It won't actually improve capacity like HS2 will.
Agree. Claiming 1.5billion/mile does not provide the overall picture. $/mile per thousand passengers per year would be a better metric
@@TalesOfWar 100%. It's very similar to dissonant conversations surrounding public health care spending. Privatised healthcare (ie. US) sounds cheaper because people often compare individual out-of-pocket spending to the comparatively huge figures for social/communal healthcare costs, until you compare the end results. In per-capita healthcare, it's not even close: for example, the US spends NEARLY DOUBLE per-capita than my native Canada, and many of its citizens are still without adequate coverage!
Public transport (eg. HS2) is likely very similar. Yes, it _sounds_ expensive, until it is appropriately compared to the alternative, then it seems like a bargain.
@@ManishSinha Definitely. It would also be nice to understand how expensive cars and their infrastructure is. How much more would the powerlines, watermains, bridges, roads, service vehicles and workers, courts, regulatory agencies, health services, etc, etc, do personal vehicles costs? It's one thing to consider the personal cost of purchasing a vehicle, purchasing insurance, and purchasing fuel, but there is a significant burden placed on every tax payer (car owner or not) to support those vehicles.
Love the new editing style
Mind boggling that the cost is so high, look at Tokyo or Paris, they are building rail super cheap, and also are places that have super high density, I think that those stations could have been more simple in order to not make that proyect even more laughable
Until you realize those cities don't have the buildings that reach the heights that NYC has. The surface of Manhattan is also as hard as bedrock. An underground subway construction project that has to keep disruption on the surface to a bare minimum in a unique geography like NYC is bound to be expensive.
@@nightflyer3242 Hard bedrock is great for tunneling. Waterlogged soft one is worst. NYC is expensive because contractors have to follow Union rules mandating hiring about 4 times as many laborers as elsewhere in the world, and then add some more.
While London (like other cities) has added several new lines and extended many in the past 50 years plus adding a couple other systems, NYC has extended two lines by one station (7) or a few (Q).
Couldn't they just dig "one layer" deeper? Beneath existing infrastructure? I think the London sub did it that way, no?
Manhattan is essentially one big bedrock. There's no "one layer deeper".
London is mostly clay Manhattan isn't. It's Manhattan schist. One layer deeper means cost more than double.
@@mrbrainbob5320 Why? The rock should have the same density, right?
@@brll5733 the rock below in manhattan is much harder compared to london, which is much softer clay. this would make any tunnelling in deep levels substantially more expensive in manhattan.
Outstanding video! I'm originally from the City of New York & was always fascinated by subways & the construction of these systems. Looking forward to seeing more videos from you. Thank you & all the best.
New York is home to everyone! The best city ever!
Like Shanghai?
I must say, every time I see a new video posted by this channel I stop whatever I'm doing and watch it. This has to be the most interesting channel on RUclips. Keep it up B1M team!
Japan could make it twice as large for half the price and it’d be cleaner, safer and more efficient. Leave it in the hands of American businesses and costs will naturally be inflated. Not only is there a lack of qualified workers due to the lack of tube projects in the us, but the uncommon nature of an underground system means companies can charge premiums for these projects. The thought is that there won’t be many projects like these so they need to charge what they can while they can. If they could expand public transport in the us to include more underground lines, costs would naturally lower over time as the industry expanded and attracted drones of workers who specialized in this type of construction. Currently, they’re working with limited workers, massive projects, and limited demand, so prices will be inflated.
Bru your dead ass building in the most expensive city on earth also ofc it’s going to be easier to build in Tokyo or Osaka or any Japanese literally 50 years ago they were completely destroyed unlike new your which had been developing for over 200 years
The two old ladies hugging at 4:45 is the cutest thing ever
Don't worry NY. Toronto has done basically nothing to build more subway lines in the core of the city and the population has increased 3 fold. Group hugging city councillors still think streetcars are the solution.
I wonder how many wise guys are part of the new line. LOL
Ontario Line is promising. But I agree it should have been built decades ago.
@@MrKevinWhite Yah, finally!! LOL. I'm sick of the moving roadblocks they call streetcars. They seem to be perpetually replacing the tracks. It's like that movie the never ending story.
BRILLIANT approach to advertising your product.
America should do it like us in Europe: the corporations that do 100% of the work will put 5-10% of the money (taken many times back by budget overruns), the taxpayer puts 50%, , the remaining 40-45% is loans to the corporations that the taxpayer has to pay and the corporations will own 100% of the infrastructure for the next 50 years. Brilliant.
You know most politicians only last 4-8 years. This is legal corruptions. Not a long term plan.
Uploaded 1hr ago, already 21k views. Amazing. Love this channel 👏
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You should take a look at the plans for Oosterweel in Antwerp, Belgium!
Should've mentioned how a metro system was built across Delhi, a capital city having more than 20 Million residents
When I see video of NYC streets, I remember my early 20's paying rent and surviving off 1 dollar pizza and street car coffee because the jobs did not pay enough to actually live in the city. I remember watching the sea of 20 somethings rush to work, skip lunch, and rush home. 2nd Ave is already well connected to the subway, how about NYC give the poor folks in queens better systems and better zoning so everyone and their mom doesn't have to commute downtown. New Urbanism has been around for decades people.
Exactly.. taking the N train from queens to Manhattan to Brooklyn is such a long ass headache . When we should have a train Thts goes right to Brooklyn… plenty of ppl commute from Brooklyn to queens , just like ppl
Commute from Manhattan to the Bronx .
when you are bad at building things, it just becomes vey expensive. Many countries have built subway with much cheaper price in more congested cities. Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai etc. all have built subway with much smaller budget and shorter time. Go learn from them.
BTW i hate this city and can't wait to move out!
Going through my emails at lunch just now. The B1M notification just now. Click and watch, important emails......later maybe! Love your channel. Keep up the great work.
I'm so annoyed by how inefficient everything is in this country (US). The corruption with everyone having their hands out makes everything more expensive, annoying citizen complaints that lock things up in our inefficient court system for years, and over-regulations. I'm glad to see some progress being made but it sometimes feels like we're living in bloated Rome right before the fall.
this is only your feeling stop watching fox news and all will gonna be ok
Amazing documentary!