2 Seconds from Disaster. Kittyhawk Wind Shear Causes me to Nearly Crash
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- I narrowly avoided a crash on landing. Watch my indepth review of how I nearly crashed the Cessna at Kittyhawk farm strip. What I did wrong in the runup to the aborted landing, what I have learnt and how I will ensure I never make the same mistakes again.
There is some swearing so please don't watch if you take offence to foul language. To see how it’s done watch @ShortField
Like the old adage goes, “Good judgement comes from experience, … experience comes from bad judgement.” Welcome to flying!
You are a safe! Yes I’ve learnt that one well and am now making much better judgements like not flying if it’s outside of my capability.
Thanks for the kind mention Chris. Great video I love honest flights everyone knows we all cock up but few admit to them, but in this case you didn't muck up you did exactly the right thing and went somewhere else. Keep up the excellent videos.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing this! We ALL make mistakes…very few of us have the guts to share! There’s so much in this for us all to learn from, especially the P2 input. Glad you were able to sort this one and live to tell us about it!🙂👍
Thank you Andy for your kind words. I have learnt a lot from other youtubers videos and am keen to share, just have to ignore the trolls / armchair pilots and focus on those who actually fly!
This is a fantastic approach - completely aware of your flaws on the day and totally open to learning. These are the ingredients of a great pilot. As the old adage goes… there’s never a day that goes by as a pilot when you’re not learning! Well done!
Thank you Josh, that’s very kind of you to say and very true. Good lessons are always hard! Hopefully the next ones will be less hard
Thanks for this. It reminds me of an occurrence when flying with a young friend of mine some 3 years back. We were approaching a 900 metre unmanned strip at a place called Igualada, near Barcelona. The wind reversed on us such that halfway down the runway it was abundantly clear we would never stop if we attempted to complete the landing. My companion did everything right slapping on full power and keeping all surfaces in max lift configuration. If he hadn't demonstrated exemplary airmanship, we would have ended our days in the side of an industrial unit off the end of the runway. The a/c - PA28 Warrior 3. The pilot now 36 and at an advanced stage with his A320 type rating. Me, 77, retired ex UK CAA.
Hi Robert. Sounds like a similar but more shocking scenario. You just can’t quite believe it when it happens but sounds like the training kicked in and everything was done correctly to get you out of the situation. Great lesson to learn in a reasonably controlled environment as I am sure I’ll see similar things happen flying IFR and have far less time to react or visual reference to fly by. Great to hear your story and thank you for sharing.
It was still a good recovery, you kept the nose down and that is what kept you alive.
Thank you. Amazing how the training kicks in and everything goes slow. I ran through a few different options and outcomes and instinctively did the right thing and I didn’t panic either. A good lesson for me and hopefully it helps others too.
Great video, thanks for sharing. Many people can learn from this video. How many pilots would have just pretended that this didn't happen, due to ego. But you are able to take responsibility, share the lesson that you gained from it. I remember when I used to fly (many years ago) and during one of my first few solos, encountered wake turbulence from a Beech Baron that was landing in front ot me ( I was in a Cessna 150). In those situations, we just got to fly the plane, just as you did by going against an instintive urge to pull up, but instead keep the nose down a bit to build up speed. This is one of the best videos I've seen in terms of what led up to the situation, and what you learned from it. Great! You've just gained a new subscriber. Happy flying!
Wow thank you for your kind words. Lots of pilots are worried about saying they messed up, which is crazy really, for fear of being called out. I’m all for sharing my mistakes, ignoring the trolls and helping others learn, even if I’m far from perfect and not an instructor.
No worries about the dramatic effect, these lessons are priceless. Thank you!
It’s a hit of drama and a bit of real world code brown. I’d be less worried if it happened again now I’ve been through it and have learnt how to fly the super cub
As a flying instructor with about 5000 hrs, I can’t offer a full analysis from this video, but imho the inputs from your passenger could well have shaped your decisions. All your self-debrief points are valid, however, the last point about ignoring your passenger is spot on. I believe had that passenger not been there, you would probably have elected to go around sooner, but you suppressed this (correct) decision due to well-intended inputs such as “It’s the crosswind” (inferring superior knowledge) and “your speed is good” (implicitly encouraging you to continue an approach you weren’t happy with). You learnt a key lesson and can brief future passengers you fly with to assist in lookout or other basic tasks. For you, try not to verbalise your inner monologue as it can be interpreted as seeking input/reassurance. Sense, decide, act and then communicate to your passenger the intentions. Glad you got away with it with only a few beads of sweat lost. Fly safe.👍
Thank you Pete, I now tell pilot passengers not to comment on my flying unless I ask or I am about to crash! Such an important lesson for new pilots and an important one to more experienced pilots who are P2.
Maybe a no flap landing would have been a better option. Additionally a low pass over the runway to see the effects of the wind before a landing attempt. Carry all the wind and half the gust as additional speed.
Practice the crosswind landings often, with an instructor until it becomes second nature. We often don’t have a choice if we are low on fuel or running from weather to just get a runway with a nice steady wind in our face.
Agree on the second point just finding it hard to find an instructor on a x-wind day and a free aircraft! But I have been practicing on my own too.
No flaps would not work on this short grass runway, in fact I would not have had the confidence to get it down safely on just 2 stages. But with practice I am getting more confident and feeling the aircraft’s behaviour and connecting with it, so less flaps is fine for me if the conditions are good and I have enough runway.
Great lesson. Certainly it was out of your skill level for the moment, especially lacking the mental preparation for a very difficult landing. Recently I was in a similar situation trying to land at a little strip about this length with trees on both sides. I'm fairly proficient landing at airports like this, but the wind was just all over the place. One thing I don't really mess with is all that mechanical turbulence, especially in my underpowered 172. You did a good job getting out of there. I did the same. Just noped out and went down their road a bit more at a more suitable airport.
This may sound counterintuitive, but I wonder how the wind would have been lower. I've also been approaching situations like this flying FASTER than I should, with less flaps. My logic is that I have more penetrating energy through the air for those wind gusts. Then, I can pick my time to 'fly' it on the runway. It's still a lot to manage.
You did a great job.
Thank you, kind words from such a pro and I watch a lot of your videos. Lots of people talk about reduced flaps and more power for these types of complex wind landings, but I am always concerend I'll not stop the 182 without full flaps on a short field landing. Need to practice lots of landings in different configurations in fair weather conditons, nail everyone then deploy these skills in more challenging weather.
I'm going to make a video on the subject and call on some expereinced pilots, I'll drop you a note when I have it planned. Take it easy and keep sharing your amazing flying.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us :)
Hi Dave, thank you too.
Thanks for sharing so honestly and with a good debrief
It was hard to work out if I should as I don't want to look like I take stupid risks, but it's a good lesson learnt for me and one I had to share to save others from worse outcomes....or just scaring their passengers.
A really good place to learn short field techniques both grass and gravel is South Africa. I did my PPL and hour building out there. The biggest difference I saw was that most guys including instructors in the UK don’t have the correct technique. That’s not to portion blame to anyone but when most GA airfields in the Uk are At least 500-700m or longer and tarmac, you don’t really get an appreciation for it. During my instruction days the most common thing I saw was carrying excess speed on the approach with the aircraft not trimmed for the correct speed. Especially when it came to short field ops.
That aside. Good effort. You lived to tell the tail which is a good thing
I’m in. I love SA and would love to fly there. You’re absolutely correct on the lack of short field and cross wind instruction. I learnt on a grass airfield with three massive runways and whilst we practiced short field take off we did the basics for landings. No real cross wind practice as we always had a runway into wind! Hence my botched attempt when I first hit crosswind, rotors and turbulence! Thanks for your comments and enjoy flying in beautiful SA
I've done exactly that, exactly there. Thirty feet up over the threshold and suddenly no lift at all. Crunch. I walked over to have a look after I landed; there were three great divots taken out of the runway. Good job Beagle Pups have strong undercarriage. There's lethal rotor and windshear on 28 at Kittyhawk unless the wind is straight down the runway.
Hello fellow “WTF” at Kittyhawk pilot, I am glad you got down safely and yes I now know the rotor can be awful and the advice is to take the x-wind on the other runway or go somewhere else! See you in the skies or on the apron I hope.
Humility doesn't come naturally, but admitting an error in judgement is the least favourable thing to do, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experience with us.
There’s no point in pretending that I am an amazing pilot, I’m still new and learning. Anything I can share to help others has to be a good thing, but of course I am no CFI, yet, and I hope everyone is able to view my content as fun and apply critical thinking to anything they take away.
@ChrisFlies the fact you learned and shared is sensational, I'm sure anyone who watches this has something to learn from this so thank you Chris.
These are really good for learning. Never rely on P2, Complacency gets you killed, Prepare for every outcome
Too true. I wonder how many accidents are caused by complacent pilots? It’s my biggest weakness
Hard to watch - a moment later on the go around later and those trees would have been awfully close ! Your thoughts post incident and lessons to take away i think are all correct. especially though arriving at an unfamiliar airfield in gusty winds and asking yourself 'what am i thinking ' .
We all know of Pressonitis to a destination but it also applies to getting down to that runway when you are so close to success.
Excellent to share this. Subscribed !
Thank you Simon. It’s a head but good lesson and better planning would have saved the scare. I have since cancelled a couple and divert on other due to weather changes. Most recently on a flight to the Isles of Silly where I’d had to do a double diversion due to weather.
Very useful video, Now I learn about windshears in general aviation and how looks like, all the signs we must to pay attention. Im glad you and your pass are safe and now I have so much learning about sterile cockpit. As a newby private pilot This is for me an Unvaluable information. Thanks for that. Blues skies and Tail wind 👍
Too true and thank you. Lots learnt here and I am a much better pilot for it. Enjoy learning as you go and share your experiences too
@@ChrisFlies Sure!. Thanks a lot.
You have a great attitude! Humility is harder to learn than bravery.
Thank you, too often armchair pilots just want to rubbish those who are brave enough to own up, but thankfully RUclips seems to attract normal people with an interest in learning, sharing and helping rather than bullying from behind a keyboard. I really appreciate your kind words, makes it all worthwhile
Thanks for being straight with the viewers.
Hi there, thank you for your comment, it's great to be able share my mistakes so others can avoid them or at least learn from them
grateful for your humility to share a mistake - it takes a big man to admit he was wrong
Thank you Pat. GA is not a very forgiving world and a there are a lot of loud ciritcs, but we are all learning all the time, so I am happy to speak and and help others learn as I have learnt so much from similar videos.
Im not a pilot but have an interest , basically an armchair pilot on computer sims ( MSFS 2020 ) . So my understanding is limited but I must admit 28 rwy to me looked good from the wind sock , how ever whilst I may push things a bit more on the sim and have crashed as a result ( many times ) . In real life if I was feeling that cross wind as much as you was in real life and certainly not so much in a sim I think I would have gone around . Easy to say from me in my cosy chair in a sim lol . How ever you did the right thing from what I know ( very little ) , you powered up and kept that nose level to gain airspeed and got out of there . Some might say you left it too late , some might say you left it at the last moment but not too late . I don't know as I said im a sim enthusiast , either way you made it out safe and live to learn from it and to every one watching and mostly real pilots you may have through this video made others think twice . Thank you for this video , what better way to help other pilots than show what went wrong , you learn from your mistakes and so can others . Cool video and thank you again .
Thank you. I learnt a lot on the sim and it’s a great tool. It’s generally too late to go around if you’ve run out of runway, before you touch down you are always in a good place to go around. I was going around when the wind-shear hit and kept my trajectory heading down.
Turns out taking the crosswind on the other runway is after than the turbulence/ wind shear on the into wind runway. I now know.
One of the mistakes you also made was do get the flaps up immediately after the go around, that made you sink like you did and almost crashing into the trees.
Next time wait a bit and get at least level (not climbing not descending) before getting flaps up
Yep it's painful to rewatch the video, and as you said I should have been more planned in my actions. I was fairly new to the Cessna and flying outside of my ability on that day, I'm now a lot more comfortable with how the Cessna flys and what to do when during various stages of flight. Training in the Super Cub has been massive help too. Thank you for your tips, it all helps and I won't ever stop learning
Depends on the flap setting. Once you go flaps full, it's a whole lot less lift and a LOT of drag. Many planes call for flaps to go to an intermediate setting upon a go around
Flaps UP immediately is going to introduce sink and raise the stall speed.
I would on encountering sink and electing to go around
1. Full power
2. Nose to the horizon
3. Flaps reduce drag - if full flaps (notch 3) then select flaps notch 2, if at notch 2, then select flaps notch 1, which is normal takeoff flap setting. If at takeoff flaps notch 1, then do nothing yet.
4. Monitor airspeed, airspeed building to Vx, at Vx (best angle) pitch up for climb attitude
5. Monitor airspeed
6. Clear of obstacles, relax back pressure, accelerate to Vy (best rate) and then slowly retract flap in stages
All that happens very quickly…. But retracting all the flap whilst sinking is not recommended.
One other issue I had was not taking the carb heat off which reduced power but I did only put the drag flap away and left the rest in. The sink was just a rotor hitting me and taking the lift away. Anyway I’m much more on the ball now with a better understanding of my personal limitations and more in tune with the aircraft, more power, more flow, clear on when to commit and when to go around.
I'm a very scared passenger but due to our private island in the San Juan islands the only way in is boat or small plane. Fast forward, coming into our grass runway on a 6 seat charter during a wind storm that turned our 20 min flight into 45 minutes. The runway is between trees and when we got lower all hell broke loose! The left wing went down, the stall warning and other alarms went off and our pilot shouted "HANG ON"! Obviously I made it but the charter company shut down flights for the rest of the day due to the weather. I had brought a bottle of champagne (as our island has no stores, not even electricity) and I opened it on the runway and drank straight from the bottle!
Brilliant story. I love “hang on” at least they didn’t say “don’t panic”. I bet the champagne tasted as good as any you’ve ever drunk! When I make it over to see my buddy in Portland I’ll arrange a flight to the island and let you know before I come in. I’ll bring the champagne
Nice honest video. Your P2 can give valuable input which you can consider but not necessarily follow. You were the commander. But he is a valuable CRM asset. I think in your go around you pointed the nose to the runway direction. As it seems from the video that made you drift towards the trees.
I agree that a P2 is a great source of support, I just didn't manage the information very well and should have been clearer on my plans if we could not land. I've learnt a lot from this experience and am glad you enjoyed the video.
The secret is a stabilized descent ramp, any disturbance on this ramp requires a go-around. Another point, apparently you had your Flap fully lowered, in these windy conditions I usually use less Flap. Thank you for sharing
Thank you Alex. The age old flap debate is one I’ve had with lots of very experienced instructors, all conflicting views. The only advice I have taken on board is to use the flaps as directed by the POH, full flap for short field. I’m still playing with different settings based on conditions and runway length but the lesson here is that I should have taken the cross wind on the other runway and not risked the turbulence/ wind shear on the into wind runway.
I'd disagree. Not every approach is gonna be severe clear, you're gonna have days where you gotta fight for your position. Still stable, good approach.
@@DavidIdeaMachine You are right, the term "stabilized descent ramp" is within a range that each person considers safe according to their skills and experience. outside this range, the best option would be to go-around !
Well done sir. Good video that will help novice pilots. You have an excellent attitude that serve you well in your flying career.
Thank you so much. I set this channel up with the aim to help others learn as that's how I learn, watching or reading about others mistakes. Glad you enjoyed the video and thank you for your comment.
Good for you on uploading your video and anlysis; it will help others.
Thank you, I learnt so much from watching others make mistakes on RUclips and love sharing what I do. It opens me up to a lot a “armchair” critics, but YT seems to be a good place to share where the majority of viewers want to learn and enjoy the content.
Armchair critics are good at armchairs.
@@dodgeholls5018 ha ha ha too true
That was 8 minutes of boredom followed by 2 seconds of sheer terror.
Sounds like an average GA flight!
⚠️Look at the sky folks !
As a glider pilot I can also tell you that sky is unstable ie full of thermal activity and lumpy bits of turbulence (glider pilots dream sky!!)
Thermals passing through can make the wind change direction 180 degrees in seconds, because of the way the thermal draws tonnes of air up from the ground from all directions.
So it's not just adjacent trees that cause wind shadow and rotor downdrafts.
If you are flying in blue sky with those cotton wool looking defined clouds then fly accordingly.
The air is going to be unstable.
That's just how we like it !!!!
It enables us to circle to cloudbase really quickly on some days 😅
I urge power pilots to try gliding sometime (I fly power also)
It's bliss with no noisy fan up front and no fuel usage burning big holes in your pockets 😀
Jules, you are spot on and I am keen to do some gliding. I fly past Lasham in the UK a lot and see so many gliders, time for me to really learn about the weather up there. I also sail so I should have done this sooner.
The "sterile cockpit " concept practiced by commercial pilots during critical flight phases (e.g. take off & landing) should be practiced in all aircraft at an appropriate level for pilot focus and flight safety. Good flying skills really made a difference in this situation. Thanks for a great video. Your openness may help us all learn how to increase the odds getting there safely. 👍
Thank you Jeff, you're 100% correct, it's way to easy to be distratected in the cockpit with chatter and sight seeing. I am now much more strict about this, in fact had a lovely flight yesterday to a farm strip in perfect weather, on the way home I was gazing out of the window and suddenly thought, this is the most dangerous part of the flight, lots of aircraft departing an uncontrolled airfield and I am gazing at the scenery! You never stop learning
Great video! Just like those articles 'I learned about flying' in Flying Magazine. I never had to deal with wind sheer but I remember having to do a go around 2x because of wind gusts on approach. Third approach wind was nice and steady. But not a nice feeling after having to go around 2x and starting to wonder if the wind would settle down😂
Thank you Brent. Yep living out other people’s nightmares! I guess it’s hard to train for this kind of situation and if you don’t try you’ll never learn but boy was I sweating!
Putting the flaps up so fast like that is one of the leading causes of stall during a go around. Establish climb performance then flaps should put up in stages.
Great advice and I am now much more organised with my drills, staying ahead of the aircraft and planning what if scenarios as I go.
Awesome. I have been there also. You should be able to feel the plane sink when you put the flaps up fast. I can feel it in the video. Safe flying!@@ChrisFlies
getting help from the person in the right seat is just good CRM. I wouldn't 100% rely on a non pilot passenger but they can still give useful information
You’re right, all input can be useful I just shouldn’t have relied so much on their input to make my decisions. That was entirely my fault and a good lesson for me.
My humble opinion is that this could easily have been avoided with better stick and rudder skills and better energy management. Sure, your rationalization as to the factors leading to your placement in that situation is sound. However, and the core fundamentals of your abilities lie stick and rudder skills and energy management. Full right rudder on the go around won't do much for obstacle avoidance, at least not compared to the turning force generated by banking your wings. "OH but we were close to stall and I didn't want to increase by stall factor by banking too much", therein lies a weakness in energy management.....letting airspeed decay on short final.
Your humble opinion is very valid and thank you I could not agree more. Since this video I have been learning to fly a Super Cub and have learnt so much more about landing control. I think it would be easier to summaries that my approach was not coordinated; speed, control, height, go around point, understanding of the micro conditions at the airfield etc…. Too much energy, not enough experience, technically challenging landing. Thank you for your views, I have learnt and I hope other aviators will too.
I have been put in a dangerous position with an instructor. I told the instructor "I would not be flying in these conditions" 3 times before I took off with him attempting to complete a BFR. My mistake! Even with an instructor don't go flying if you think the conditions are beyond your abilities. As pilot in charge, only fly if you, yourself are taking responsibility for the safety of the flight.
I will never fly with an instructor even if they think it is safe to fly again. The pilot must have a clear picture of the planned flight and reference the plan to the actual as they fly, if there is a large discrepancy, go to your alternative, even if it means waiting on the ground or a road trip to get home. I have done both and now know I prefer these inconveniences over the loss of my faculties whilst in command of an aircraft.
The thing I learnt is how dangerous it is if you are scared out of your mind and flying. One's 'task box' shrinks so that your mistakes accumulate.
P2 in this video is a dangerous distraction, unless P2 is prepared to take control of the aircraft and it is agreed before take off, that this may occur they should shut up. Responsibility is being shared and diffused between P1 and P2, tasks can be agreed to be shared before the flight but don't follow instructions that aren't completely clear to you what is going on. Discussing the conditions is not being 'in front of the aircraft.'
Whilst planning the flight one of the things we should say to ourselves is the list of "what ifs:" the engine fails on take off, in cruise, I experience excessive, rain, wind, cloud, turbulence, what is the plan? Don't fly if don't have one.
After this attempt at a BFR I know what becoming a passenger as a pilot means, death.
Yep you nailed it. Point 2 is the most salient for me. I’m PIC and I am flying that aircraft. I can’t rely on input from P2 unless it’s to warn me off doing something. I like to fly solo a lot so that I don’t become reliant on P2.
The big lesson here for me was not being fully prepared and read in on the farm strip and not diverting sooner.
But on the plus side I learnt a hell of a lot and won’t be making any of the mistakes you pointed out again. Hopefully others can learn from my video too and avoid a similar situation.
Hi,
Thanks for sharing.
I'm glad you had adaquate airspeed, considering the windshear and xwind!
I think applying full right rudder would of yawed and rolled the A/C, possibly resulting in a stall spin situation if your speed had been slower.
Glad you both got away with it and safe flying!
Thank you Julian, lots learnt and lots to learn. Wish I lived in the US where I had better options for varying wind conditions, less trouble flying circuits (noise issues at a lot of airfields in the UK, and a more inclusive GA world!
Fair enough Chris! Weirdly it doesn't look too scary on video but I can imagine just what that felt like at 45knots!
Time slowed down, trees zoomed up and I realised I should have gone around 30 secs earlier. It’s always more visceral in the cockpit than on camera and it was not too bad in hindsight but it could have been a lot worse and I only have myself to blame!
If the winds were that strong, you should have never left the ground that day...
Strong winds aren’t really an issue for me it’s the direction they cross the runway and as I found here the turbulence they cause. I think flying in a variety of conditions is critical to making you a good pilot. No point finding out you can’t land in cross winds at the end of a long flight, low on fuel with few alternatives around you. But, I think you’re saying, don’t fly beyond your personal limitations which I could not agree to more.
If it’s within the limits you are fine. A wind shear is a different scenario.
A good pilot one's that learns with is errors
A excellent pilot one's who learns with others errors.
Great quote and very true. I heard one along the lines of “a good pilot user their skill to get out of a bad situation, a superior pilot use their judgement to avoid getting into a bad situation”…. I’m on my journey from good to superior, I fear it may take a while, hopefully I can help others on the way
I used to fly a flexwing at kittyhawk, that runway is nasty when the wind is SW. And it normally is, sea breeze that whistles, squeezed between the South Downs and Mount Caburn. I will always take the crosswind, even if more cross, on the main runway as it tends to be cleaner. But it's an unfortunate strip, two runways 60 degrees off the prevailing wind direction!
Great point Gwyn, I would have been better off sticking to my original planned runway and taken the crosswind on that as you say without the risk of windsheer. Lesson learnt!
Fun fact: Kitty Hawk means nothing now. The location of the Wright Bros flights is an incorporated town called Kill Devil Hills.
Fun fact. Kittyhawk in the UK is for sale if you fancy an airfeild.
@@ChrisFlies What is an airfeild?
Great lessons learned from your experience ! Thanks for sharing
Thank you Jean-David. I have learnt so much from other and wanted to share my mistakes so others can hopefully making them again.
Great video for novices and glad you lived to share!
Thank you. I have found other RUclips videos so helpful with my own learning, I’m glad you’re enjoying them too
Instead of letting us hear the cockpit audio, you dubbed over "I should have gone around, I should have gone around". We already know that!
Roger that, I’ll be sure to include the cockpit audio and then do a separate voice over, thanks for the suggestions, always trying to improve my videos.
With 2 persons on board, the under-power C150 wasn’t helpful in fighting with the wind sheer! Without my instructor, in my first solo the C150 shot up like a rocket!
Ha ha, I remember that feeling well when my instructor got out and said fly a circuit, it was like being in a turbo aircraft with only one onboard
Interesting position for a solar farm, right next to a runway, if a plane veers off in the wrong direction the financial damage is HUUUUUUGE!
I know and I hadn’t thought about that. Will keep me more focused on my next trip, plus we have a few solar farms next to airfields here in the UK
Know your minimums. I’m still a low hour pilot so I won’t land in over 10 kt x-wind component. Thanks for sharing!
Wise words and thank you for watching. I should have canned it earlier you are absolutely right, it was outside of my personal limitations at the time and the wind sheer just made a bad situation worse.
I’ve had similar stuff like this happen. You aren’t being over dramatic, it’s quite unsettling. Especially when it’s particularly gusty and hard to stay in command of the plane.
Thank you. It knocked my confidence and I had a hard time getting the Cessna down on the runway again. But some good lessons with an instructor got me back into to right place, flying the numbers and head of of the cockpit and I’m happy to say I’m loving my landings once again
@@ChrisFliesAll I can say is I’m glad I’m not the only one. A good lesson with an instructor really does go a long way after a day outside the ol comfort zone
Good reminder! The pucker factor was high that landing. ;)
Indeed it was. Just flew today and diverted due to sea fog, thought about landing then thought better of it
@ChrisFlies And that is what keeps you alive! Haven't flown in years, but will never forget the 'oh sh&t' moments. Safe flying!
Some times you close yourself all indicators you feel your crap but still Riley your on right pattern. It happens a week ago I know very well I have to land 11 but newbie tower instruc me to land 19, I landed nearly my plane cross limits than he realized what he ordered but it could be too late. I get my lesson and go on. Don't rely even tower 😅
Wow that a tough one and yes you’re right, trust yourself first and everyone else second. I’m glad it worked out well for you. Keep enjoying the flying.
Thanks for sharing! Wondering if you could have been more aggressive sooner with the aileron input? It seemed like you were somewhat passive in that regard. However, being at such a low airspeed I imagine there must not have been very much aileron authority available so perhaps a mute point.
Hi Luke, good thought. I was focusing on not upsetting the aircraft too much once I put full power on to avoid a stall, but on the way in I think I could have been a bit firmer and have been practicing lots with wing down, side slips, etc and the aircraft responds well.
Not much cross-wind. It was rotor effect from the trees that threw you about and then at low level you were sheltered by the trees and as you didn't remove your crab you then headed towards them as you started your go-around👍
Yep lots of lessons learnt on this one, probably my biggest one is to make sure my confidence is lower than competence! Thank you for watching and your feedback
I often fly into short strips as well, honestly your approach looked pretty fine to me. A bit gusty but fighting for your position doesn't necessarily mean you're not stabilized. Not every day is severe clear. Always okay to go around, but the crab angle and approach seemed okay! :)
Thank you David that’s kind of you to say that. It wasn’t terrible but given my low hours at the time it was certainly worrying. Think I’d be ok now but again if I read the info properly on the farm strip I would probably take the cross wind on the other runway and avoid the rotors / shear.
I’m sure a huge raft of “dark surfaced” solar panels adjacent to the runway wouldn’t have any influence on thermal activity..
We love to build random wind and rotor generating stuff next to our runways here in England, guess it keeps us on our toes.
Thank you
Thank you too John
06:50 what is the reason for using full rudder? I mean you have to center the ball during the go around - did it require full rudder to do so?
From memory I had a lot of right rudder to correct for the cross wind, so when the sheer hit the aircraft I had very little right rudder travel available to keep me out of the trees and I didn’t want to drop my right wing to much incase I stalled.
Got myself in a pickle with this one. Lesson learnt.
My 2 cents and I am no instructor, probably with fewer hours than you: 1. You are never on the center line - a WW pilot perhaps? You need to have in your mind to constantly fight for the center line. 2. Full flaps on a 182 in strong winds seems rarely to be the right answer - adapt to the conditions. 3. Before the "windshear" it looks like you are already sub 50 knts/dangerously close to a stall? More speed will give you more control. 4. Too high - even if you had touched down, it would have been at the half way point - short field means on the numbers at the right speed, not half way down the runway at stall speed. 5. There seems to be some blame on P2 but unclear from the video why, he did well not to take control if he is a pilot. 6 and most importantly - if the approach is not stable, go around. You can be 45 degrees to the runway and in stable descent - "why am I crabbed so much" is a concerning question. You gave yourself some good advice - go up with an instructor and practice crosswind landings as we all should from time to time.
Thank you, all good and valid points. Yep I learnt at WW which teaches you certain habits that aren't always appropriate for every situation, but I am learning to adapt. I'm glad my P2 didn't grab the controls as that would have been a disaster, so whilst I should not seek advice from my P2, he did a great job of staying put and not trying to take over.
Well done
Thank you
Pro tip from flight instructor: Gusty/windy conditions - don’t use full flaps and add +5 knots to your approach speed. This will give you better control authority and a greater stall margin in case of windshear. You should grab an instructor and practice this scenario if they didn’t teach you in flight school (which is appalling if that is the case)
I'm on the fence for this one. I have asked so many pilots and instructors and everyone has a different view. My concern here, if I did not use full flaps and had more power, was I would not stop on the short runway. The best advice I have had is to follow the POH and fly within my limitations, maybe try the config you mention but do a low approach and see if it feels safe, go around then come back and land.
My biggest challenge is finding an airfield with crosswind and an instructor who's free at the same time!
@@ChrisFlies Flying is basically kinetic energy management. Having some extra energy when windshear is a possibility means that you'll have a much better chance of getting out of hairy situations without stalling or losing control. 20 degrees flaps won't add much to your landing distance (but always check POH and rwy surface conditions) and you can compensate for the higher speed somewhat by aiming for an earlier touchdown point, flaps up immediately after touchdown and slightly harder braking. What it will give you, as mentioned, is better control authority in all phases of the approach and landing, less chance of the plane weathervaning into the wind and less drag/faster acceleration in case of go around. Cessna 172 (and Piper and others) POH says to use landing flaps as desired precisely because of these types of situations.
I personally don't know any instructors that are of a different opinion but the ones that may be are arguing against laws of physics and going against recommendations from organizations such as AOPA.
Thank you for that detailed explanation and I am clear on what you’re saying. I’m going to be trying out different configurations for landing and have asked my instructor to book some time in with me. Even practiced a flapless this week in the warrior I fly.
Is this the same Kitty Hawk where the Wright brothers flew out of?
Sadly no. It’s north of Brighton in the UK. Maybe I was channeling my inner Orville
I suppose if wind is 90 deg and you've got close trees and the other sides flat then err towards the flat side for room....but its been yrs since I flew. Airlines dont use sterile cockpit for nothing.
Wise words and I agree on the sterile cockpit, seen too many tradegies on Aircrash Investigates where the rule was ignored
Wouldn’t nosing into the wind have been a better approach setup?
Hi there. I was crabbing into the wind but it was also very turbulent so made working out which runway to use pretty hard. Turns out the best runway is the crosswind one, the other one, when it’s blowing a head southwest so you can avoid doing exactly what I did.
This was in fact, skill and not luck.
You're very kind Matthew, there was some skill in not panicking and applying what I learnt, I agree there, but I was lucky that the windshear didn't push us further off course. All in all a great lesson to learn.
Thanks for sharing
Thank you for watching David.
Thank you sharing
You are so welcome I hope you keep enjoying my lessons in flying.
Just looking at the plate that you showed on their website, it states on their plate wind-sheer warning on 28.
Hi there, yes I read the plate but didn't really take it on board. Another great youtube flyer, @shortfield, says he always lands with a cross wind rather than into a windy 28 as the wind-sheer is so bad. Lesson learnt, read the plate, ask others, go around if it's not right sooner!
It looks like you’re putting crosswind correction in way too soon. You’re draggy, fully cross-controlled, so any gust is going to overwhelm you. Let it crab until you’re over the threshold.
Ah yes, that's great advice. I have been trying to experiment with wing down vs crab and a combination. Think you are right, I was just slowing the aircraft down too much so got stuffed when the wind changed. Thank you
And crossed controls and a stall will very likely be unrecoverable with an instant wing drop stall.
I fly the crab approach almost to the ground and just before the flare transition to wing down into wind and hold straight with opposite rudder.
I fully admit this technique took many, many hours to get right, I don’t think I truly got good at x wind landings till 500+ hours….
Great video thank you!
Cheers Edward, thank you for your comment and for watching.
I think you could have pushed it a little lower towards the runway to recover the airspeed.
Hi and yes there was probably a bit more room. I guess when I was in it I just went on auto from my lessons and tried to minimise inputs to avoid stalling or loosing more height. Definitely a juggle.
Definitely need to minimize chit chat in the cockpit during takeoff and landings, your passenger was well intentioned but a MAJOR distraction.
You are not wrong there. Lesson learnt and now I much more focused on a sterile cockpit environment when flying with others.
Why did you add right rudder? You made yourself uncoordinated so close to stall and could have had a stall spin. You should add half your gust factor to your approach speed and use a cross wind landing.
Also, get an instructor who is experienced in cross winds and get out there in the same winds soon.
I had a lot of rudder to counter the crosswind and if I added more speed I was worried I’d not stop in time, but these are all things to keep trying and ideally with an instructor as you say.
@@ChrisFlies ok, so I am not an instructor but I am a PPL so take what I say with a grain of salt.
First of all, the rudder should not be used to turn, whether it be to avoid the trees or change your trajectory. It should only be used to take out the crab angle right before touchdown for a brief moment. Use ailerons to turn at all times. Going too slow with heavy rudder can be extra dangerous. From the best of my knowledge, there was no need to use rudder to go around or at that altitude. Coordinated is the word.
IF you were doing a crosswind landing with wing low, right rudder in a slip then it would be fine but you were clearly crabbing. Slip to land has the added benefit of acting like flaps and allowing you to keep a higher speed and at the same time use a lower flap setting to avoid gust effects.
Check out “stick and rudder.” I found it immensely helpful.
As usual, thanks for sharing and helping the community learn. I offer advice only to learn from the feedback and hopefully help others.
Thank you. I’ll check out Stick & Rudder. I’ve found the Cub flying has been incredibly helpful in getting more connected to my aircraft at all stages of flight but particularly landings. Safe flying.
@@ChrisFlies every opportunity an opportunity to learn! Just make only one mistake at a time and you should be fine!
That's not wind shear. That's a rotor coming of the line of trees. Mechanical turbulence.
Thank you Dave. It was a shock as it took all my airspeed away, either way I have since learnt to take the crosswind runway rather than risk the rotor / wind shear / horrible stuff.
SUBSCRIBED!
Thank you Ipanema. Your name is a wonderful place
Could of used one less notch of flaps for more air over the control surfaces
Ah the old flap chat. I’m going to do a video on flap use as it’s a subject that no one seems to have the answer to. The best advice I have taken is to just use what the POH says and for the 182Q it’s full flaps for a short field. If I sped up I would run the risk of overshooting the runway same if I used less flap as my airspeed would be higher due to stall speed decreasing. I think the best technique would to have come in higher and drop down but it’s one to discuss over a pint or on a video coming soon!
@@ChrisFlies can’t wait to see it!
orobably caused by the air hitting those trees and getting turbulent.
Hi Alan. Yep if I’d read the airfield briefing properly I’d have seen the strong turbulence and rotor warnings. I lived and I definitely learnt.
Great video, very educational. Thanks! (and drop by to say hello if you happen to travel to EDQN Germany!) Cheers Etienne
Hi Etienne, I'll be sure to let you know when I am coming over, we're upgrading the Cessna to glass cockpit and then I'll be flying some longer European legs for sure.
THANK YOU!
You're welcome!
Was P2 even a pilot? Why were they talking so much?
Yes and we’ve flown together before. It’s all on me I am afraid, I should have had a better plan to start with and then asked them to be quiet whilst I flew my pattern. If the roll was revered I would now, hindsight eh, say divert to the alternative airfield. We live and learn and I am planning on learning lots more but maybe not in the same style!
i wouldnt call that close to the trees, they seem pretty far awat
It always seems worse in the cockpit and I guess I had a reasonable margin, but too close for me on the day!
Is the solar a factor?
Yes, we are plagued with them in the UK around small airstrips. We also have a lot of trees near thresholds and on occasion angry landowners who don’t like grass strips near them have planted fast growing tall trees at the end of the runway threshold. Not illegal if it’s not a licensed airfield apparently. I should move to the US or LATAM
Wind from the left?
Wind from all over the place, by mainly from the left. Did I make a mistake in my video?
single pilot opps nuff said….
Agreed. The more I read, listen to and learn from competent pilots the more I realise how hazardous single pilot pops is challenging
Incident happens at 6:32
Thank you, I’m going to put more time stamps on the videos so people can skip and I’m going to keep trying to reduce the length too.
Is that a 182 ?
Hi, it's a 182Q with carb. Learnt a lot since that flight I am glad to say.
Arrogance comes to mind, especially for a PPL
Bit harsh Barry. I guess I could just fly within my capabilities and comfort zone, but then I’d never learn, which is why we all fly and when something does happen outside of that comfort zone, I am likely to end up on the wrong side of failure. I agree I was perhaps a bit over confident with my new found short field skills, and I should have briefed myself better. Can we swap overconfidence and immaturity of experience rather than arrogance?
Ok example but no need to lengthen the video for watch time. If it's a 30 second point it's a 30 second point. I skipped through the video knowing you would waste time :)
You're a harsh critic Dan. But thanks for watching
@@ChrisFlies harsh or fair? :)
Not good enough skills and complain for what you consider to be difficult. That's not a pilot!
Me or you? Sorry I am confused with your statement.
@@ChrisFlies
I'm not complaining about the wheather when I fly or I simply won't fly. It's my flying ability or limitation if even on clear weather I can't manage the controls to keep my centerline! Keep practicing until you have it! I don't cate if I sound "disrespectful" to not good enough skills, but that's how I am.
Understood and yes practice makes perfect or at least safer flying! I’m flying lots and have mostly sorted my issues since this video. I’m also a lot clearer on my personal limitations. Thank you
@@ChrisFlies
Keep up the good work! Do your best in it!
You probably will crash it's what 100 times less safe than a glider.... And I don't mean motor glider😂😂😂😂😂...
Not entirely sure what you mean by your comment. Are gliders more of less safe?
Please rephrase or punctuate your sentence so that it is understandable.
@@rogerturner5504 uhh nooooo
Drama queen
You are SOOO spot on with your comment. It honestly looked worse from my perspective. But it’s also a lesson that others would have brushed off, gone round and nailed it the second time.
I reckon I’m getting closer to being less dramatic and more effective.
You must be fun at parties. This was educational
Honesty I can bore like the best of them. The worst was at Christmas drinks where I bored a new neighbour about my PPL progress for an hour. I asked him what he did. His answer “I fly wildcats in the Navy”. Awkward. We’re now good friends but I listen and he talks.
Pushed the nose down…..key phrase or level
Not sure what you’re saying, let me know as I’d love to hear your thoughts.
Thank you
You're welcome