You Suck At Fighting Grapplers
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- Опубликовано: 29 июн 2023
- YOU HAVE NO JUSTIFICATION TO HATE ZANGIEF IN SF6!!
People keep complaining about Zangief BUT WHY? He's not good. You are only losing to Grapplers because you don't know how to fight Grapplers! Stop the Grappler hate! #JusticeForGrapplers
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When you don't know what you don't know, it feels like you know everything.
"You can bully Zangief in the corner." FINALLY. Someone said it.
"Why are you dive kicking?" The biggest weapon a grappler has is the opponent's impatience.
So true, I kept jumping on a Gief once and he just swatted me out of the air over and over. I deserved that!
Built up the courage to play my placement matches last night. Went 6-4, all losses to Zangief.
Jamed Chen the next day: You suck at fighting grapplers.
😭
LMAO it's all good this is why James retains his reputation as the best teacher
There is an overlap with people who hate grapplers and people who just want to flowchart mindlessly. Zoners and grapplers force an adjustment in matchup gameplan. The irony is, grapplers spend every single game adjusting to matchup gameplans, which other players whine about lol.
I fought a Manon as Chun Li, and lemme tell you: I got grabbed alot. Kept on trying to combo her, but to no avail. But after a few matches, I started to see the patterns and played it safe. Felt so rewarding to counter their moves once I figured it out (still lost to an 8:3, but felt soo good😅)
Dude, everyone was talking about how powerful Manon is, and rightfully so, but when I switched to Chun Li my life became a lot easier just from having a projectile and a cancellable low MK. Grapplers are hard to use because everyone knows what you pretty much HAVE to do.
This is so damn hilarious and true.....especially as a Zangief main that runs Guile and Chun-Li as secondaries. Grapplers and zoners have to make very different adjustments, but grapplers have to take WAY bigger and dumber risks to land big damage at times. As a zoner you can play it safe from a distance, bait, punish and adjust on the fly while it just feels way less stressful. While I'm higher ranked with Zangief because I've been playing him since SF 4, Chun-Li can more evenly play against the entire cast and life is easier just due to her design, movement speed, and incredible normals that flow into specials. I love my main no doubt, but make no mistake it is a "struggle" in terms of match-up flow (part of the reason it's so rewarding to dominate and win with him). I also love my secondary characters and am on a mission to master all of them. When you play grapplers you feel the dread of the risks and decisions you'll have to take, while a good opponent will also know this and exploit it if allowed to.
Losing to grapplers in a lot of games typically involves making a mistake and then guessing incorrectly two or three times, often in circumstances where the CORRECT guess for the grappler is something like a 33% chance or lower (3x in a row is a 3.7% chance). If you are just getting plowed by a grappler, you don't hate the grappler, you hate yourself for being so easily readable they got inside your head in the span of a few minutes.
It's not getting read, you have a 1/3 chance of getting it right lol. You have to guess, they just do w/e you want and if you guess wrong 3 times you die.
RIP Banishing Fist aka Green Hand Of Death.
I still don't understand the decision behind this lol......his absolute greatest tool for rapidly closing the distance, cancelling projectiles, and combo'ing into SPD or other command grabs!
"You can't hate grapplers" I can and I do.
The thing that bugs me about Zoner and Grappler hate is that there aren’t that many other archetypes in 2D fighting games to begin with. So everything gets funneled into being a well rounded fireball guy, of which a few will probably be the best at that and then invalidate the others. Also, I figure that’s why no 2D fighting game developer will ever get rid of those archetypes no matter how much people complain since they can instantly recognize how homogenized the game would become. However, they have no qualms with nerfing them to oblivion, so it’s kind of like the illusion of choice. On the other hand, grappler and zoner mains will always eat good since the people that complain will never learn the matchup.
I think what you said about countering grapplers is incidentally why a lot of people hate grapplers. If you’ve been in the fgc long enough you’ve probably learned the hard way not to get close to grapplers, but there’s something very unsatisfying about playing against characters that sort of force you into one very narrow strategy for victory. THAT is why I dislike grapplers - I ain’t playing no zoner character because I think zoning is boring, but when I play grapplers I basically have to be one.
saved me typing all that out, thanks 🤣I think James got there by the end of the vid too - describing what to do and not do and I quote "does that make it boring and does that make it suck.... sure!"
Yeah. Exactly. I’m okay if you hate what they force upon you. But people talk about Zangief like he’s broken when he’s clearly one of the worst characters in the game. That’s what drives me mad!
just take one look at the type of people that play grapplers. they are out of shape, lack physical fitness and cant defend themselves - tells you everything about who they are as a person when they cant even take care of their own decaying flabby body
i can't tell what's worse, fighting a super patient ryu, or fighting a regular dhalsim as grappler. sim is just naturally counter playing you and patient ryus can hurt a lot while also being absolutely no fun to fight against.
Super patient ryu sounds in character. Guess why Ken is a more popular as a pick than Ryu...
As a super patient Ryu… it’s no fun to fight against grapplers 😭 I play Ryu to box and I’m not a natural zoner at all I don’t like the zoner playstyle but you HAVE to against a good gief or Manon
Ryus and Kens are both annoying, both due to their respective playstyles and frequencies online. Dhalsim I rarely fight, but that bastard is annoying regardless of who I'm using. I play Zangief (main), Chun-Li, and Guile. With Zangief I try to stay mid-range so I can parry hits to counter hit his limbs or DI his limbs when he's defending his position. I can kill easily once inside but it's a PITA closing the gap if I'm not patient myself!
@@malcovich_games Of course cause they can go ham!!!
@@dominickjadon Naw bring that ass here and get scooped!!
As a grappler main i love making peope seethe at the instant 720. Don't get close to me boi.
Just start churning butter during fake pressure.
NO MERCY, NO REMOOORSE!
Seeing your ATHF avatar in the form of Master Shake and your joy of executing 720s on unsuspecting foos is gold.......I know you troll in some matches lmao. I main Zangief too and concur!! I run Guile and Chun-Li as secondaries now.
@@nairdacnalbel Every time Zangief says that line I love it lol.
Basically: you hate everything that isn't rush down
when James talks about kicks, it reminds me of an itazan clip the other day where he intentionally does Tundra Storm to catch a kick on wakeup
the only grappler i ever actually tried to learn was King in tekken. but even then he's more of a grappler with strikes, and not a true grappler.
you've inspired me to try gief, james.
i'm gonna hop on sf6 soon and and go through my placement matches with gief.
Oh god I’m so sorry for causing you so much future suffering. LOL! How it goes well for you. Haha!
Fools...if you cannot beat the grappler, BECOME the grappler! Reject projectile, become command grab #Grabbler4lyfe
Preach! I’m going to walk into my next local blasting this.
Once I realized I can play keepout at arms length instead of having to charge into a grapplers face and kiss them the matchups aren't so bad, I can even get away with a few jumps and end blockstrings in a fireball or something - (to clarify I don't mean arms length as in "Dhalsim arms" just like normal non-stretchy ones)
One thing about grapplers in sf6 is when face zangef players mash jabs and jump in and then use level 3 supers on wake-up
Thanks for the hot tips, Mr. Chen.
Once you learn the match up you can make playing the game a nightmare for grapplers
Knowing how to fight grappler's takes alot of knowledge. Years of playing fighting games. If you can't beat grappler's it's definitely a you problem.
I just need to stand forward with cammy? gonna try that now.
That was such a stressful round!
How did you even think of WRITING that?!?
greeeeeen handddddd
Well, if you don't wanna play lame, you can always approach Gief and make the match end that much faster lol
As a Deejay main, as soon as I see that Gief screen, I just relax...
@@TrophyJourney right before u get SPD'd to oblivion ;)
@@ZaoJin 20% of the time, yeah
that's why I hate grapplers unless I'm playing one myself cuz it is what it is man, I hate it to be forced to stay as far away as I can and fuck him up, even when I'm winning I'm bored to heeeeeellll and even when I win, I just don't want to play anymore-
I'll learn how to zone and still hate grapplers, not for boredom or changing my playstyle. I just want em to suffer, like every person I play.
depends on character. laura struggles against gief. all buttons unsafe or lose to his jab, fireball gets spd or lariat for free, buttons are stubby. game becomes run, run, avante cg. its hard.
For sure. Grapplers tend to have that happen. Because they also tend to have the worst matchups in Fighting Games as well. So having a match up they actually win is amazing. Let us have it. LOL!
that laura poster is hilarious
I've never used grapplers til Manon. Manon has opened my eyes,but I always did good against grapplers. Especially with Cody on street fighter 5
grapplers = struggle bus? so nobody's having fun? 🤔
Out here giving out the secrets lol
Broh... they gutted SPD making it lose to a normal throw! A 360 loses to a 2 button normal grab... if you can't win after that, it's on you.
Men i just LOVE you!!!!!!! Literrally LOVE you!!! I play Gief since street 2 and grapplers in every fighting games since more than 25 years now. I see all the time people complaining against grapplers while i have play all the fighting game low tier all my life by playing grappler!!!!! This is the worst Gief since long in a street fighter game and people still complain!!!! Thank you very much for that.
!!!!!!!!!ZZZAAAANNNNNGGGIEEEZFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!
That is EXACTLY why I hate fight grapplers 😭 they make it where I have to sit back and throw fire balls and check jumps while throwing out lights and mediums to check rush in grabs. I don’t like playing zoner but you HAVE to because as soon as you commit to ONE act of aggression you’re getting leaf wind hurricaned for 25% of your health 😭
The best way to think of it is that you’re still playing the same game, but the interactions are different. It’s still trying to read your opponent, still guessing what they focusing on, etc. It can be just as engaging, obviously you’re happier when you get to autopilot some offense, but Fighting Games are ask about adapting, and playing a zoning game can be entertaining as well. Like when I fight Giefs, I often make them one and done or get super salty because I never let them get in and they cry about my play as “boring”, which can be as gratifying as beating people up with rushdown mix. ^_^
Just improve Gief forward walk speed so I can walk up SPD, I can’t do anything to Guile sitting in one place menacingly.
When I watched Jwong absolutely murder zangiefs on dhalsim i started to feel kinda bad for the big guy
Honestly, watching this felt kind of assuring after seeing a certain 'infamous' player using JP get bodied by a Gief (it was recommended to me, blame the algorithm)
I think they played it "better safe than sorry" with Gief. On paper, the concept of the drive system in the hands of a competent grappler is terrifying. An armored move that's barely reactable that causes a wall splat? A dash that covers a ton of ground quickly? Yeah universal tools like that basically demanded they be extra cautious with Gief
i think DI is super reactable, the problem is if you have already thrown out a move that doesn't let you cancel into DI or doesn't end before your opponents DI. and gief has so many moves that you cannot cancel.
@@simpson6700 if DI hits in a true blockstring (aka there's no gap since the previous move) it wont wallsplat. it will drain your drive gauge tho
I still wish we had Thawk instead of Lilly. I love her concept but playing her feels bad. Playing anybody else is easier imo
Agree. I don't think she is very interesting or fun to play. Don't think i would like her even if she was good
@@2Namii I don't mind her being a cute girl version of thawk, but her gameplan is so boring. And people already know how to deal with plus condor shenanigans. Rather just play gief and do big boy damage off of SPD.
I hate it. Her concept art she looks actually 19. But her being a little girl in game doesn’t sit well with me. Like May in GG is a fantasy setting and she’s supposed to be a lot older and only looks young due to powers. But Lily looks 12 and beating the stuffing out of her feels kinda not cool.
@@UltraChenTV I don't agree that she looks like a little kid. I could totally believe her being 18 or 19. But hey everyone has their personal taste. I actually like how quirky and bubbly she is, it's a stark contrast to stoic thawk. I just wish she was better game plan wise.
Then you play Fighterz and grapplers either completely negate your zoning or blow right through it lol
Potemkin in Strive IMHO, is almost perfect grappler:
Projectiles? You Flick them Back
Jump-ins? Heat Knuckle or even a Heavely Pot Buster.
You are retreating or far? Hammerfall or Slide Head.
You wanna go on a barrage of strikes? Giganter Kai.
Are you trying to poke me with footsies? Megafist
Closed in guard like a turtle? Garuda impact.
Gief should have a standing air grab, a fireball deflector and a rush attack to be balanced.
I still see a glimpse of Potemkin in my nightmares
Grapplers expose your laziness as a fighting game player. If you’re allergic to training mode, try to run your flowchart, or just RTSD then you’re gonna struggle. Grapplers depend on this laziness to actually do well. That’s why they are scrub killers and don’t win tournaments.
I get the feeling you're supposed to hate playing against grapplers, which creates a problem. If you buff a character that makes most of the playerbase have less fun, you run the risk of losing playerbase. There is something fair about that, too. Most of us aren't pros. We come for fun, so if you make the game a slog, it doesn't matter that it is technically a 5-5 matchup. Who cares what the matchup is if you don't enjoy the game?
My pain/hatred of the archetype comes from the fact that the friends that taught me how to play sf main grapplers.
So for the first 100 hours of learning it was
"Oh you messed up an input/drop a combo? Ok heres my SPD"
With a mixture of
"Wait is it really worth it to learn and practice my combos when they have a single input for the same damage?"
Now Im just annoyed by armored moves that are plus...
Di or low hit grief charge punch!
"You can't hate grapplers."
I can and I will 😤
Yea, no doubt. Grapplers need to get in and close the distance WITHOUT a Juri sized dash/DR. Grapplers deserve to be rewarded when they get in, and they do. But keeping them out is easy, just have to... Keep them out.
what if you actually think we should lower the minimum wage?
These kids don't know about ArcSys grapplers like Z Broly and Potemkin. Those mfers make Manon and Gief look like kittens.
And I'd take fighting a grappler over a zoner any day. Getting oppressed by a brick wall of projectiles that can choose to toy with you the way JP and Guile does is designed to make people quit or see if they have the fortitude to play these kind of games.
To be fair, Potemkin is pretty bad in Strive. But back in Accent Core days, DEAR LORD Potemkin was the enemy of fun. Hahaha!
I play Honda, therer's no zoning with him if they don't jump (which you shouldn't do against Honda anyway). I run circles around low rank Zangiefs, but Manon is a toss up - if a player's really good, I rely on DI lol:D if they're bad and/or hang back fullscreen, well... I turn on my bully mode.:D
i find hondas super easy to parry and then i get a free piledriver
@@simpson6700 that's why I don't do headbutts against Gief:) much safer to jab, jump if he charges, cross up, DI, all that stuff.
I don't know if im the same boat , i dont think I suck at fighthing them , I *hate* fighting them .
I don't like the fact that I need to zone you out or doing tricky stuff to win. I do that because I have to.
Also playing vs grapplers when you got ADD is the worst because if you zone out for a moment, you're done 😂
My dude, cross Zangief up. His lariat's the worst it's ever been without a backwards hitbox.
@@PinkArmFlexer yeah , with Chun one button cross up is ridiculous but that what I call doing tricky stuff.
I just feel like it's a cheap win and if I lose I'm like Damn it , I zone out this moment.
as a grappler with ADD, it goes both ways. if you zone me out i get frustrated easily and lose patience.
@@simpson6700 hey thanks for your insight, never think it that way.
Really fighting grapplers is fun
But you can still hate them just because they FORCE you to play a certain way. It's the same reason people hate zoners and basically any archetype that forces you to play in a way that doesn't feel natural for you. Maybe they could combat this by making their non EX command grabs techable but give them better neutral tools, mobility and ways to deal damage besides grabbing. That would take away some of their uniqueness and make the characters feel more homogenized though. I don't see any other way to make people stop hating to play against them
Nah grapplers are human filth
Someone already mentioned that fighting grapplers can become very boring, but even when you compare the boredom to zoners, I'd still rather fight a zoner in most cases. When you fight a zoner you at least might be able to jump over a projectile, or their general pressure that they basically have to do, because they shouldn't be letting you in for free. You may also have moves that are invuln to them, go over/under them, supers yada yada. Hell in sf6's case you'd be able to parry the moves as well. Then you fight a grappler and you just normal each other to death. In most cases you lose about 90% of your tools, which sort of takes away from what makes a character a character, imo.
I say at the very end of you hate Grapplers because it forces you to play a boring style, that’s fine. Don’t conflate that with Grapplers being cheap and broken is the message I’m trying to convey.
@@UltraChenTV Yeah I caught that, was just adding in a bit more of my thinking. I'm not afraid to admit I've lost to random bronze giefs in battle hub, because I fell asleep at the wheel. Is it boring and frustrating? yeah, but it's still my fault lol.
Yeah. As much as I think Gief isn’t good, I lose to him all the time. Haha. But I also recognize that I too am falling asleep at the wheel. Haha.
Like hell, Chen. It's BECAUSE they make you change your playstyle to something so lame lest you die in two moves is why people hate them, not because they're OP, because they aren't.
Yeah. And I’ve said in the video, if that’s what people complained about, I’d be okay. But the fact that people say Grapplers are broken or they’re cheap etc. etc. (which people do a LOT), that part drives me nuts.
Give me Sodom in SF6.
after much deliberation, I've came to the conclusion that I don't hate grapplers. I hate Manon, more specifically, Manon *players* who play her like their mission in this game is to tilt you until you do something dumb. if you don't, they hang back fullscreen and try their 1 tactic once again. Then they leave after one match if you don't take their obvious bait.
what i hate about manon is that her entire gameplan consists of DI -> grapple -> repeat
Lol ive been geting wiped all day to zangeif... literally 0-10 thank you.
Haha. Who are you using? Again, fighting Grapplers is really hard if you are unable to shift your entire play style. And that does make fighting Grapplers annoying, I understand.
@@UltraChenTV I'm playing blanka, a bunch of the combos I've been using are close range 😅 you're advice has helped me so much.
I don't understand grappler hate at all. I have played a lot of midrange or bruisers with a command grab or rush down and I like that grapplers have to come in and fight "honorably" up close as opposed to zoners who hang back and create puzzles I have to navigate. Hating on the character because they do a lot of damage in one move is silly. Yes with a strike character they have to do a combo but there is also no interaction there from the defender once the combo starts.
Maybe it's the way people play them in SF6 specifically. Zangiefs are being Zangiefs, and that's cool. But at least half of Manons I've encountered play keepaway for some reason. Played against one like that yesterday - backed off the entire time, I get close, they try crossup. I anti-air, they run away and try it again. Some of these players are incredibly annoying and don't seem to learn.
@@JahlisMan that sounds like they are not playing the character well since giving you space and backing up allows you to force her into the corner. Also if they burn out backing up causes slower Regen or drive gauge than moving forward or attacking.
@@genuwine21 I know, right? a keepaway Manon should be an oxymoron. And I play Honda, I don't have to walk the entire screen on foot to get to them:D
Standard grappler propaganda. #keephatinggrapplers
Grapplers are the only honest archetype 😌
YES! Finally, a person who knows the honest truth!! 👍
i guess every pro that hates fighting grapplers also just sucks at fighting them. is it just really that hard to admit the archetype can reward randomness and braindead plays?
Yeah. Rushdown characters are definitely brain dead and random! Unlike Grapplers which are the paragons of footsies and fundamentals and great reads. Grapplers are a true measure of talent and skill! 😏
"Grapplers have been suffering for years"
Good. Let's meke it decades😋
People complain left and right about everything in fighting games. Why? Because 50% of the time someone loses and that will never change. It's always easier to blame than push yourself and learn more. Fighting games are the hardest games.
Damn. I love that statement. “50% of the time, someone loses.” Haha. Good way of putting it.
The problem with dedicated grapplers is precisely that so many options are locked down. It really bogs the gameplay down. Basically grappler players are super selfish, hence the hate. >.>
I could say the same for rushdown vortex characters since the other player doesn't get to play the game at all
@@malcovich_games Agreed! I motion we ban both types. That seems like a fair compromise to me, as a zoner. >.>
Nah I've watched you bitch about Pot enough, Cry over King in Tekken, so when you get zoned in MK1 or Bodied with heat set ups in T8 refer back to this. These games are niche for a reason
Wha-? I don’t even know what you’re mad about. LOL! That went from 0 to 60 in like 1 second. O_o
I think the fact Gief can kill you in 3 grabs is pretty insane given the range on SPD now. Definitely needs either a damage or a range nerf. No reason why he should get 30% non-counter hit of a regular SPD from further range than 90% of my normals lol.