Awesome man, thank you. I have been learning about electrical and electronical stuff for a couple of years and never knew about the PLC. What a fantastic device, and method of programming it.
Marty after watching your Part 2 I watched a RUclips explaining the difference between conventional generator vs the new more expensive inverter type generators. I also looked up Skin Effect. For those who don’t know I copy paste the explanation from the Internet; “The main technical difference between inverter generators and conventional generators is what kind of electricity is produce, conventional generators only produce AC electricity while an inverter generator produces electricity in three phases (high frequency AC to DC back to *stable* AC current)” “Skin Effect results from circulating eddy currents, arising from a changing B field, cancelling the current flow in the center of a conductor and reinforcing it in the skin. This reduces the effective cross sectional area increasing wire resistance and losses.” Now I understand your "inverter" setup, your cost to effectiveness ratio is just brilliant. Big fan, love your channel.
I've not heard of Delta and Star winding since the early 80's.....that was not the direction my career in electronics and electrical engineering went.... great job
Fascinating! for this electronics engineer. The whole generator centers on the coil-and-magnet motor. I had no idea they used that style of motor, but then it shows I'm not up with the times. Brilliant.
True that, there is a vlog on RUclips a geezer in Canada I think building his own homestead no speaking just working,guide amazing his skills no power tools all buy muscle
Never have I seen a solder iron like that, count me seriously impressed. I’ve been a reader of the backshed for many years but this video certainly adds a lot of value to that information.
www.jlconline.com/videos/playlist/soldering-gutters-video-playlist When soldering metal guttering you need a lot of heat....especially if it is copper guttering. This is how it was done in the past....
As a retired Military Aircraft Electrician, you are killing me. And at the same time impressing me with your ingenuity and problems solving skills. keep it up sir!
I love he juxtaposition of the high tech electronics and the copper lump soldering iron. I built my first crystal set with one of those in the 1950's !
Loved your videos, here in Bougainville we run small hydro using 100mm pvc reduced to 25mm running a radiator fan off earth moving machinery with its blades bent at right angles as a water wheel running a shaft and then belt driving a 240v generator off a dead genset.
There is a product called "Liquid Electric Tape". It is a liquid vinyl goop (like honey) that is brushed on wires to apply a water proof vinyl coating when dried. Perfect for this.
Many years ago, as a first year electrical apprentice, one of my jobs was to recondition Star Delta starting systems for three phase electric motors. The Brand may have been Honeywell. If I'm not too old to remember. I had no idea you could use the same principles from a power generating point of view. One never stops learning. Thank you...
Wow, I'm impressed. And here I thought you were just a "knuckle buster". You have obviously had some electrical/electronics training. I love the step by step instructions and explanations, expecially the diagrams. Love the series.
That soldering iron brings back memories. I started year 7 at an absolutely brand new high school and chose electronics as an elective. I was expecting a great experience with all new gear, but when it came time to solder up our first circuit boards, the teacher who really had no idea what he was doing, took us outside to do it with those antique soldering irons heated in a branding iron heater borrowed from the agricultural department! The irons burnt the crap out of the circuit boards and components, and did an awful job. And to really top it off, we were only supplied with acid flux and plumbers solder, corroding out our hand made boards after a few months. Was the most disappointing class I ever enrolled in.
Hell of a school? I did electronics at a TAFE College in Australia in 1976 with all the good gear went on to the School of Radio with the RAAF for my apprenticeship at 16 learnt precision cabling there.
@@ToreDL87 would need documentation to prove damages but without knowing the laws of where you live hard to say. I’d at least talk to an attny. You never know, maybe get a settlement due to their incompetence
Hi Marty T, I'm from Brazil and I really admire your work, you do a very important job, thank you for sharing it on your channel. A big hug and never stop with the videos!
Yeah, that'll take a sizable dent out of your electric bill! Might even be able to run a very small compressor based fridge off that. But more likely you'll run various electronics around the house off of it.
I did not understand 1 second of this video. Still loved watching it though. I would love to sit and have a point with Marty, seems like a great guy to know
If you left the motor wiring original and then brought it up to the house as 400v then use a step down transformer your losses in the cables would be reduced due to the lower transmission current. The transformer would then lower the voltage and increase the amps to a more usable level just like the utilities do. As an added benefit you would have the bulk of the system available at the house for repair/monitoring/maintenance instead of trekking down that steep bank with all your tools and materials. The 1drawback is the transformer which given your minimalistic scrap/salvage approach would probably be unattainable and would be quite pricey to purchase. I love the repurpose material approach in our “disposable” society. Great job.
The 400VAC @ high hertz is leaky through insulation and dangerous to handle. Rectification immediately to 27VDC to charge the batteries (low voltage needs large cables and short runs to avoid line losses) then from the batteries through an inverter to 230VAC which is standard household voltage for NZ appliances/light etc...and can run 400 metres with minimal line loss and arrives at the house distribution board ready to go out to the water heater appliances etc without further rectification. So the batteries and electronics need to be down at the stream and the generator.... Has worked for 17 years at Marty's home..... But you could use an old (
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk I'm not sure if the leakage is even significant at this scale. In any case, any mains transformer _should_ work. Inductors can become SMALLER at higher frequencies.
@@StanleytheCat-v8z There have been changes. The 60VDC after the rectifier is now sent up the line to the house to an MPPT solar controller and fed into the batteries up there; then into the inverter also up at the house and into the house domestic wiring. Also there is now a diverter valve on the intake to the pelton wheel to instantly reroute the flow from the intake back into the stream if a fault is detected in this system... that keeps the flow of the water and doesn't wreck the penstock etc by slamming shut a valve with all that energy wrecking the penstock/generator.
Given the length of (each) wire needed for the six "buss bars" employed in rewiring the STATOR would it have not been more helpful to have bought a length of Yellow? Also better for teh video. Indeed why not a length of yellow and another of white (since you had the blue laying about)? Then a touch of Magic Marker here and there to get one buss using black & (yellow, blue, white)? Were you away from a power source? Or are you simply more comfortable with that antique soldering iron (made of copper)?
My grandfather had a soldering iron like that... The "tip" was about a pound or so of copper. It was heated in a charcoal brazier that he had a hand-cranked blower for. The flux was a block of "sal ammoniac". I've also seen bar solder like that somewhere, but it was so long ago I can't remember where.
Plumbers soldering iron used when roof guttering was soldered with "bars" of solder melted like a small river into the joins between the metal gutter sections...
Wow Marty, that is some of the finest looking wiring in close quarters done with a ten pound sledge type soldering iron, no less! Very difficult to keep the connections straight. Great video, thumbs up.
Yes - actually the original "Fisher and Paykel Smart Motor" concept and design was developed by 2 New Zealanders, in New Zealand (if I'm not mistaken). I can't remember now whether they patented it or sold the rights before the design really took of and was duplicated under liscence by other manufactures. Does anyone else know the full story?
@@MartyT Yeah, 100w is a bit much for that type of work but those copper 'irons' were not intended for electrical work ! I recently bought a very small soldering iron (not much bigger than a pen) with adjustable temperature which was incredibly cheap and much easier to use than that type.
I was just about to say that I e never in my life seen one of those soldering irons used. I’ve seen them around but be er seen them used. Marty is just showing off how eclectic his skill set is now!
marty have you thought of running the cable down the hill at high voltage and rectifying it at the house? id be interested to know the difference is in wattage at the generator vs at the charge controller. im guessing you have done it this way for safety but you could run wires back up to some kind of safety system where you could turn it off or have it monitoring weather it is leaking to ground? yeah maybe not, it would suck to get shocked walking up the river. id still be interested what the losses are though and over what length of the wiring run.
Video is amazing! I would like to know more about the "jet" as every time I search water I get electrical water jets. Can someone tell me what "jet" was used to increase the psi so I can find it an buy it?
Well done mate, I hope one day ill live somewhere with the privilege of access to a natural resource like this. Id love to try some of my own off grid productions.
Very cool and interesting. Usually with a PV array you wire the panels to put out high voltage, low current to save money on the wiring run back to the inverter. Once at the inverter, it converts it back to usable volatage and bumps up the amps. Same priciple as high voltage transmission lines. Higher voltage also resuces losses over the run from source to house.
Yes thats right, output from this is a little different than clean dc from a solar panel, high voltage / high hz ac doesn't travel well long distance (skin effect cable loss)
@@MartyT I was thinking the same thing. But I forgot that here in USA the transmission lines are high voltage/Low frequency (60hz) . This brought back my tech training days more than 50 years ago. You refreshed my high frequency transmission line education ! Thanks. Great video.
Yes - actually the original "Fisher and Paykel Smart Motor" concept and design was developed by 2 New Zealanders, in New Zealand (if I'm not mistaken). I can't remember now whether they patented it or sold the rights before the design really took of and was duplicated under liscence by other manufactures. Does anyone else know the full story?
Have you considered keeping the higher voltage and using a transformer closer to the termination point to reduce your losses from running a lower voltage such long distances? This would also allow the end user to keep the expensive bits at the house and make it easier to maintain.
The 400VAC @ high hertz is dangerous and leaks through normal insulation. So it gets rectified into 27VDC straight away...which charges the two truck betteries @24VDC. Those batteries power the inverter that produces 230VAC...which is normal domestic voltage in NZ for use in the home. This is fed from the creek up to the house 400m in normal 3 core insulated wire at minimal line loss and useable in every domestic appliance from the switchboard. This has worked for Marty for 17 years at his home...see vids 2,3, and 4 in this series.... You could (and there are now) more batteries at the house which use a 12VDC battery charger to top them up to run the fridge and freezer...as an "in case" measure...in case something goes wrong down at the creek (which may have happened with the recent 20 inches of rain in 4 days) Marty T Marty T 3 hours ago John is spot on with his reply, there are a few other reasons- the generator speed would be inefficient, optimal rpm is around 800-1000rpm. Also he intends to add another turbine at a later date, this would require another expensive cable run if pushing 3 phase.
What voltage are you getting into a rectifier from a generator with a star wiring and what voltage are you getting into rectifier with a delta wiring (AC?). What voltage are you getting out of rectifier into battery banks? Thank You
Same mate my old man passed away recently and it definitely took me back seeing the old soldering iron I hope to inherit my dads tools only time will tell
I was taught Delta and Wye, military school. I think there was an advantage to Delta, perhaps for depth charges. I am curious about two things. Do most washing machines use three phase motors, or is that a local thing? And how much head is there for this water turbine? Thanks for making my brain reach into the distant past.
Some brands use these type of direct drive motors, fisher & paykel smartdrive is the one to use, other brands have aluminium wiring which is impossible to solder. Head is around 100psi
Thanks so much for the detailed wiring diagrams of the 2 configurations, and the rest of the 3 outstanding videos. The one thing I don't have is a water flow to drive a turbine. 👍👍
Interesting options there, Maybe enough water flow for 2 of them at a later date! I had a Delta wound Alternator on a truck years ago refurbished and modified by an old school auto elec and it really makes a difference most people are totally unaware is an option.
Great show, take a look at the LG direct drive they aren’t restricted to a spline so you can adapt to a shaft as many motors as your drive can turn, cheers
I'm watching and listening about what you are doing and believe you me even after being told whats what, Electrickery goes way over the top, watts and amps mean nothing to me, all I get is a shock now and then, It just amazes me your endless knowledge, just keep sending and I'll just watch.
Wouldn't increasing the amperage lose more energy to heating during travel from the generator to your house? Or is it worth it anyway because of how little the amps were before
Depends on the wire size and wire length. More amps and volts is better(obviously). As long as he is under the wires max rating the line loss is minimal. The wire is made to handle much higher power, so in this case there is barely any loss aside from the normal resistance from the wire length. www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html You can figure it out here. I found roughly 3V of loss over 300m with a 30amp load. Valid question though
If you look at some of his other videos, you'll see that he has the battery and the inverter located right next to the generator, and runs mains voltage up to the house.
Will be AC so that's cooler for distances. It's the amps that heats it most though. High volt - low amp requires smaller wire than low volts and high amps.
This is really handy, I was thinking, if this puts out 400v I wonder if you could combine that with a 400v EV battery and that would mean the power would transport easier over distances? Then rectify the power at the house? Or would you need more expensive cabling etc?
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq cheers John, I wasn't saying this doesn't work, the dude has too much power by the looks of it, I was asking more regarding using the 400V in a longer application (let's say from one side of a site to the other and it's a mile long or something) but I can see why you interpreted it that way as I'm saying "could you" when I probably mean, "could I" lol
Fascinating that there was already a water ram pump being used to (I assume) get the house supplied way up the hill. Although the house may have been at a similar elevation to the dam. The relatively unsophisticated part of the setup seems to be the size of the nozzle jet driving the vanes.(Thinking overcapacity water wise). Couldn't this setup be used near the house using the water ram, polythene pipe to a header tank(s) and a finely controlled jet matching the turbine? Hopefully this would reduce the water usage and the storage could offset the seasonal water flow. Or is this bonkers.
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq The 'fall" can be replicated by a header tank. What it lacks in height can be replicated by volume(as long as it is practical, this is what I'm asking)) and atmospheric pressure. And what would the minimum pressure be to spin the turbine. Marty had to detune his system because it risked exceeding the capabilities and he says there is enough surplus capacity for a parallel set up. I'm trying not to forget that low cost was a major objective, just intrigued that a low cost system could be set up without the disadvantages of lowering stuff down the bank.
I have a suggestion (idea) for a close to home installation. In a pallet container. You have a low pressure after the pelton wheel and a low pressure after dump valve of a ram pump all the system needs to convert the low pressure to a high pressure with a 12 volt submersible pump you can give pre-pressure to the ram pump and ram pump equip with good expansion vessel that built up pressure of both to drive the pelton wheel all fit in that low water container that can be used constantly.And you know the rest to put that motor on the pelton.have fun
Hello good afternoon, I would like to know why it was decided to change the type of connection from star to Delta. Greetings from Mexico, you did an excellent job, congratulations. 🇲🇽🇲🇽🇲🇽
@@MartyT oh awesome. Does that mean that for the use that you gave it the best connection and the one that most favored the project was that type of connection since it is capable of adapting to different types of flows?
OMG a soldering iron for fixing the roof rain gutter! Mate you make an easy job difficult for yourself. For the rest; very good idea and improvisation.
Marty commented tha this 100 watt iron just didn't have enough heat in it for the job of this size of copper wire soldering. So he selected his second-from-largest soldering bolt...acid flux...and lead solder...and great results happened...
Thought you would want to keep the voltage up and the current low to reduce the thickness requirement of power transmission, and figure out how to reduce the voltage on the other end of the transmission line (a transformer?)
Thank you for this excellent information. How do you know 1kw would be pushing the limits of the stator? & how do you know the cable & inverter losses would be 10%?
Experience...hands and ears-on experience over 17 years for the behaviour of the gen setup and maximum revs....with 280 watt and 500 watt turbines, now 885 watt turbine setup.... Re the 10% loss... what/how have you worked out the losses?
have youever mixed a bit of epoxy vatnish and just painted the wire after the connections are made? do you think that could increase durability or simply not worth the effort?
I need to consider adapting your idea to a larger but slower water wheel situation... slow moving but high volume river. What is the optimum rpm required for the motor/generator?
if whats output is a low voltage high current ac output before you rectify it, couldn't the cable run down to the house first, then rectified and sent to the batteries/inverter in a less damp area(as AC power gets very little loss over distance via cable)? or is it not alternating enough for that? just wondering cause it looks like alot of the stuff is in a super damp cold area also, great video as usual
Check the other bids 1 and 2 Untouched output high voltage, high frequency, low amps, Skin effect gives relatively large losses transmitting power as far as house, hence rectification to usable power more suited for tramsmission
Just brilliant mate, mind blowing but brilliant! I watched the one s couple years ago of you wiring your own one and as a non electrical guy I just about followed that so was pretty pleased with myself, this one mind blown lol 😅🤦🏻 but really interesting and tbh, if needs be/situation required could be followed (even of not fully understood! Lol) Cheers from London England 👍😎🏴
Interesting video. So is the Star and Delta premanently connected through that block, or do you disconnect the Delta wires at certain times of the year so that it only runs in Star?
Would you would have been better leaving the voltage high until you got it to the house and then step it down for the same reasons that they use high voltage on power lines across the country?
By the way, I'm curious about the gate valve you use to shutdown the turbine. With all the detail you put into your videos, once you shut it down, how do you restart it?
dont you want high voltage for transmission? for like less resistance in cables and such to the house. then just shove it through a transformer to get the lower voltage you want. idk I don't know mutch about this stuff, is there something I'm missing?
Apologies if already answered but out of interest. Given that electricity in low voltage doesn't like to travel long distances, would it not have been more effective to leave the output at 400v and run the wiring up to the house then house the electronics and batteries in a nicer/warmer environment? Would this not give less losses?
in my village here in the Philippines, (i never saw one because i'm living in the city) i heard that some of our people used a windshield wiper motor and used a syringe to pressurize the water from an irrigation pipes . it can't power a whole house but can charge your dying battery phone or just power a light bulb for you to see in the dark during the night.
Great video to get us up to speed with the rewiring process. Out of interest, what charge controller are you using? Edit: Oh, are you just connecting it directly to the batteries and relying on the valve to limit charging? If you were to get a motor with 36 coils, you could rewire it in 3 parallel sets of 4 series 3-phase coils. That should net you ~120Vmax, which is within some ~50USD MPPT chargers' input voltage range. That way you could rectify it at the source and run 2 DC wires up to the house to charge the main battery bank instead. Obviously that won't quite be as efficient as 220V, but could be offset by the fewer steps from the source to the load. Also, you could then switch in a geyser element as a dump load instead of wasting that energy.
Interesting about the 36 coil stator, i've never actually played with one of those.. I'm using an an array analog plc as a charge controller at the house
Could utilise a solar pump vfdrive to convert the output to single phase ac. Actually most 3ph vf drives have DC input terminals, but are not obviously marked.
@@MartyTusing VFD's are the ultimate Soft-start solution for off-grid induction loads. Installed one on the bore pump to offset the 18000w surge load on my 8kva generator...years later realised one could wire in hi voltage solar 400-450v, the VFD essentially throttled the pump to match the weather; cloud cover/shade...free running all day every day, no probs keeping the 2x5000gal tanks topped up. Cheers good hunting
Great video as always, but wouldn't it be easier to leave the motor wiring and put the high voltage into a step down transformer? Maybe one from a microwave ?
Linas Velavicius 8 hours ago (edited) Marty after watching your Part 2 I watched a RUclips explaining the difference between conventional generator vs the new more expensive inverter type generators. I also looked up Skin Effect. For those who don’t know I copy paste the explanation from the Internet; “The main technical difference between inverter generators and conventional generators is what kind of electricity is produce, conventional generators only produce AC electricity while an inverter generator produces electricity in three phases (high frequency AC to DC back to stable AC current)” “Skin Effect results from circulating eddy currents, arising from a changing B field, cancelling the current flow in the center of a conductor and reinforcing it in the skin. This reduces the effective cross sectional area increasing wire resistance and losses.” Now I understand your "inverter" setup, your cost to effectiveness ratio is just brilliant. Big fan, love your channel.
Marty T 2 hours ago (edited) It is very hard to spin the rotor with factory wiring with a load attached, this site doesn't have enough pressure or flow, also very dangerous and high hz / high loss over long distance (skin effect
Absolutely brilliant Marty, I mean ur whole series, couldn’t stop watching it! Tell me, can u use an all in one inverter up to 450-500v PV input for the hydro 4-500v output direct without rewiring the motor stator? Or would the high frequency be an issue? Maybe a rectifier in between? The all in one hi frequency inverter’s on the market nowadays are getting pretty smart and good for a relatively cheap price point. Great job !
Interesting. I wonder if an option to reduce one of the higher cost of the system would be to leave the output at the higher voltage and lower current. Then run that to the point of use and transform it to lower voltage and higher current. That would greatly reduce the gauge of wire needed over the long run to the point of use.
Linas Velavicius 8 hours ago (edited) Marty after watching your Part 2 I watched a RUclips explaining the difference between conventional generator vs the new more expensive inverter type generators. I also looked up Skin Effect. For those who don’t know I copy paste the explanation from the Internet; “The main technical difference between inverter generators and conventional generators is what kind of electricity is produce, conventional generators only produce AC electricity while an inverter generator produces electricity in three phases (high frequency AC to DC back to stable AC current)” “Skin Effect results from circulating eddy currents, arising from a changing B field, cancelling the current flow in the center of a conductor and reinforcing it in the skin. This reduces the effective cross sectional area increasing wire resistance and losses.” Now I understand your "inverter" setup, your cost to effectiveness ratio is just brilliant. Big fan, love your channel.
Marty T 2 hours ago (edited) It is very hard to spin the rotor with factory wiring with a load attached, this site doesn't have enough pressure or flow, also very dangerous and high hz / high loss over long distance (skin effect
Great video! so nice to see how you did the re-wiring. I'm thinking about using a few of those in factory condition in paralell to have 400V and a few Amps to charge a battery / solar system that's EU 400V based. I did look at few washing machines at the local dump, and they all had digital controllers and brushless motors that were molded into the base of the washing-drum.
Marty T 2 hours ago (edited) It is very hard to spin the rotor with factory wiring with a load attached, this site doesn't have enough pressure or flow, also very dangerous and high hz / high loss over long distance (skin effect
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Awesome man, thank you. I have been learning about electrical and electronical stuff for a couple of years and never knew about the PLC. What a fantastic device, and method of programming it.
Marty after watching your Part 2 I watched a RUclips explaining the difference between conventional generator vs the new more expensive inverter type generators. I also looked up Skin Effect. For those who don’t know I copy paste the explanation from the Internet;
“The main technical difference between inverter generators and conventional generators is what kind of electricity is produce, conventional generators only produce AC electricity while an inverter generator produces electricity in three phases (high frequency AC to DC back to *stable* AC current)”
“Skin Effect results from circulating eddy currents, arising from a changing B field, cancelling the current flow in the center of a conductor and reinforcing it in the skin. This reduces the effective cross sectional area increasing wire resistance and losses.”
Now I understand your "inverter" setup, your cost to effectiveness ratio is just brilliant. Big fan, love your channel.
I've not heard of Delta and Star winding since the early 80's.....that was not the direction my career in electronics and electrical engineering went.... great job
Really lol? Thats standard 3 phase windings
@@helpabrothawithasubisaiah5316 I know but my career was in mobile mostly hand held electronics not much call for 415v in that stuff :D
@@BokorRider i know but to never hear of delta and star since the 80s lol, that's crazy
Really liked seeing the overview of how the wiring was configured. Rounds out the video series perfectly. Well done!!!
I never get tired of watching videos that convert old washing machines into water powered turbines.
Just what I needed at 2:23am here in Texas!! Thanks!!
Especially if it's snowing.
@@tihspidtherekciltilc5469 its 90°F and 100% humidity or should I say 32°C either way we're pretty muggy
12:39 Tuesday morning 7/6/2021 Massachusetts. Happy Independence Day. Belated.
5:56 am here in the land of Oz
@@johnthompson9513 556, I see what you did there. 223 here.
Fascinating! for this electronics engineer. The whole generator centers on the coil-and-magnet motor. I had no idea they used that style of motor, but then it shows I'm not up with the times. Brilliant.
It's basically a brushless DC motor.
@@Tankwiper Yes, but usually for mains applications they use induction motors.
I have no idea wtf I just watched but it was fascinating as usual.
Welcome to RUclips. I came out of boredom and left with a knowledge ranging from diesel engines to raising quail.
Me too!
True that, there is a vlog on RUclips a geezer in Canada I think building his own homestead no speaking just working,guide amazing his skills no power tools all buy muscle
Never have I seen a solder iron like that, count me seriously impressed. I’ve been a reader of the backshed for many years but this video certainly adds a lot of value to that information.
www.jlconline.com/videos/playlist/soldering-gutters-video-playlist
When soldering metal guttering you need a lot of heat....especially if it is copper guttering.
This is how it was done in the past....
Or just use a plumbers gas torch
As a retired Military Aircraft Electrician, you are killing me. And at the same time impressing me with your ingenuity and problems solving skills. keep it up sir!
I love he juxtaposition of the high tech electronics and the copper lump soldering iron. I built my first crystal set with one of those in the 1950's !
Loved your videos, here in Bougainville we run small hydro using 100mm pvc reduced to 25mm running a radiator fan off earth moving machinery with its blades bent at right angles as a water wheel running a shaft and then belt driving a 240v generator off a dead genset.
There is a product called "Liquid Electric Tape". It is a liquid vinyl goop (like honey) that is brushed on wires to apply a water proof vinyl coating when dried. Perfect for this.
Many years ago, as a first year electrical apprentice, one of my jobs was to recondition Star Delta starting systems for three phase electric motors. The Brand may have been Honeywell. If I'm not too old to remember. I had no idea you could use the same principles from a power generating point of view. One never stops learning. Thank you...
big honeywell factory here in central scotland
This is the best water turbine video series on RUclips. Thanks alot for putting this out there!!
Excellent bro this is why they say DIY is in our DNA in NZ. Safe travels.
Wow, I'm impressed. And here I thought you were just a "knuckle buster". You have obviously had some electrical/electronics training. I love the step by step instructions and explanations, expecially the diagrams. Love the series.
That soldering iron is hilarious! 😂
Marty did comment earlier that it is his second largest one (usually used for metal guttering soldering)
They are very good - I used them a lot for sealing air con ducts.
That soldering iron brings back memories. I started year 7 at an absolutely brand new high school and chose electronics as an elective. I was expecting a great experience with all new gear, but when it came time to solder up our first circuit boards, the teacher who really had no idea what he was doing, took us outside to do it with those antique soldering irons heated in a branding iron heater borrowed from the agricultural department! The irons burnt the crap out of the circuit boards and components, and did an awful job. And to really top it off, we were only supplied with acid flux and plumbers solder, corroding out our hand made boards after a few months. Was the most disappointing class I ever enrolled in.
Hell of a school? I did electronics at a TAFE College in Australia in 1976 with all the good gear went on to the School of Radio with the RAAF for my apprenticeship at 16 learnt precision cabling there.
Did that school also have a motor mechanics course where the tools were a brick and a chisel?
Must be where all the Harley mechanics were trained.
Then it's Taught you about Electronics !
@@hauptuhrdotnetblog6700 You can pretty much sue them for that shit I think
@@ToreDL87 would need documentation to prove damages but without knowing the laws of where you live hard to say. I’d at least talk to an attny. You never know, maybe get a settlement due to their incompetence
Mr. Marty, you guys are amazing with your mechanical ability. My husband and I enjoy your videos very much.
Once again, showing your work really proves your job performance. Thanks for showing your steps and process.
Hi Marty T, I'm from Brazil and I really admire your work, you do a very important job, thank you for sharing it on your channel. A big hug and never stop with the videos!
Ok I wasn't expecting 885W at all. That's significant and you can absolutely work with that.
Oh hell yeah with good pressure and solid copper magnet wire instead of the aluminum junk he reused you can get way more and smaller gauge also
Yeah, that'll take a sizable dent out of your electric bill! Might even be able to run a very small compressor based fridge off that.
But more likely you'll run various electronics around the house off of it.
I used to think Marty was a humble farmer. Now I think he's a humble electrical engineer.
Marty wonders that work and do the job... name of the game... FREE ELECTRICITY .. well done !!!
I did not understand 1 second of this video. Still loved watching it though. I would love to sit and have a point with Marty, seems like a great guy to know
If you left the motor wiring original and then brought it up to the house as 400v then use a step down transformer your losses in the cables would be reduced due to the lower transmission current. The transformer would then lower the voltage and increase the amps to a more usable level just like the utilities do. As an added benefit you would have the bulk of the system available at the house for repair/monitoring/maintenance instead of trekking down that steep bank with all your tools and materials. The 1drawback is the transformer which given your minimalistic scrap/salvage approach would probably be unattainable and would be quite pricey to purchase. I love the repurpose material approach in our “disposable” society. Great job.
The 400VAC @ high hertz is leaky through insulation and dangerous to handle. Rectification immediately to 27VDC to charge the batteries (low voltage needs large cables and short runs to avoid line losses) then from the batteries through an inverter to 230VAC which is standard household voltage for NZ appliances/light etc...and can run 400 metres with minimal line loss and arrives at the house distribution board ready to go out to the water heater appliances etc without further rectification.
So the batteries and electronics need to be down at the stream and the generator....
Has worked for 17 years at Marty's home.....
But you could use an old (
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk I'm not sure if the leakage is even significant at this scale.
In any case, any mains transformer _should_ work. Inductors can become SMALLER at higher frequencies.
@@StanleytheCat-v8z
There have been changes.
The 60VDC after the rectifier is now sent up the line to the house to an MPPT solar controller and fed into the batteries up there; then into the inverter also up at the house and into the house domestic wiring.
Also there is now a diverter valve on the intake to the pelton wheel to instantly reroute the flow from the intake back into the stream if a fault is detected in this system...
that keeps the flow of the water and doesn't wreck the penstock etc by slamming shut a valve with all that energy wrecking the penstock/generator.
Thanks for going through this Marty, I know that this was a bit time-consuming. I really appreciate it!
It will be incredible when he makes a video on “salvage battery restoration and reuse”!!! Marty is the man.
"You call that a soldering iron? This is a soldering iron!"
I do SMD stuff, so I'll stick with my electric irons.
Tusen takk for god underholdning
Given the length of (each) wire needed for the six "buss bars" employed in rewiring the STATOR would it have not been more helpful to have bought a length of Yellow? Also better for teh video. Indeed why not a length of yellow and another of white (since you had the blue laying about)? Then a touch of Magic Marker here and there to get one buss using black & (yellow, blue, white)?
Were you away from a power source? Or are you simply more comfortable with that antique soldering iron (made of copper)?
My grandfather had a soldering iron like that...
The "tip" was about a pound or so of copper. It was heated in a charcoal brazier that he had a hand-cranked blower for. The flux was a block of "sal ammoniac". I've also seen bar solder like that somewhere, but it was so long ago I can't remember where.
Plumbers soldering iron used when roof guttering was soldered with "bars" of solder melted like a small river into the joins between the metal gutter sections...
BLOWS ME AWAY, FREE POWER AND NO POLLUTION AND NOT WASTING A DROP OF WATER. VERY IMPRESSIVE ‼️ ‼️ ‼️ Thank You, For Sharing‼️. Vinny 🇺🇸
Maybe the most eco-friendly generator ever built? we actually used junk to make it and it produces zero emissions
Wow Marty, that is some of the finest looking wiring in close quarters done with a ten pound sledge type soldering iron, no less! Very difficult to keep the connections straight. Great video, thumbs up.
thanks for the link to the back shed. I needed more explanation regarding the star and delta configuration, so that reference really helped.
lol wow just watching this has my head spinning as I barely understand any of it but it's clear you know what you're doing
Amazing Work Marty, I'm thinking about doing something like this for my daughter who lives far from the power lines. Thanks !!!
Thoroughly enjoyed all three videos, what a great friend you are. God bless!
Marty your a master of self supporting living. I just wish we had a stream to use for power generation.
who would have thought there is a washing machine conversion community in NZ? cool
Yes - actually the original "Fisher and Paykel Smart Motor" concept and design was developed by 2 New Zealanders, in New Zealand (if I'm not mistaken). I can't remember now whether they patented it or sold the rights before the design really took of and was duplicated under liscence by other manufactures. Does anyone else know the full story?
I haven't seen a soldering iron (and solder) like that in years - I'm used to a much smaller iron and solder - I was an electronics tech!
I tried my 100w electric iron but it didn't stand a chance
@@MartyT Yeah, 100w is a bit much for that type of work but those copper 'irons' were not intended for electrical work !
I recently bought a very small soldering iron (not much bigger than a pen) with adjustable temperature which was incredibly cheap and much easier to use than that type.
I was just about to say that I e never in my life seen one of those soldering irons used. I’ve seen them around but be er seen them used. Marty is just showing off how eclectic his skill set is now!
Marty you lost me at X Y Z hahahaha. You are a very clever bloke. Love your work. Keep them videos coming
Reminds me of the "this is a knife" scene from the Crocodile Dundee, but with soldering irons :)
Great video best i have seen using this type of washer Cheers Aussie from Canada
You amaze me with your knowledge and positive attitude!
marty have you thought of running the cable down the hill at high voltage and rectifying it at the house? id be interested to know the difference is in wattage at the generator vs at the charge controller. im guessing you have done it this way for safety but you could run wires back up to some kind of safety system where you could turn it off or have it monitoring weather it is leaking to ground? yeah maybe not, it would suck to get shocked walking up the river. id still be interested what the losses are though and over what length of the wiring run.
Its strange that i mentioned doing this on another channel then your video's popped up been enjoying since another subscriber 👊💯👍
Video is amazing! I would like to know more about the "jet" as every time I search water I get electrical water jets. Can someone tell me what "jet" was used to increase the psi so I can find it an buy it?
Very impressive how you get this home spun contraption to provide the electricity your buddy needs 👌
Hey Mate, try a torch next time removing the enamel instead of sanding or scrapping. Works super fast and saves your fingers!🤘
Well done mate, I hope one day ill live somewhere with the privilege of access to a natural resource like this. Id love to try some of my own off grid productions.
Very cool and interesting. Usually with a PV array you wire the panels to put out high voltage, low current to save money on the wiring run back to the inverter. Once at the inverter, it converts it back to usable volatage and bumps up the amps. Same priciple as high voltage transmission lines. Higher voltage also resuces losses over the run from source to house.
Yes thats right, output from this is a little different than clean dc from a solar panel, high voltage / high hz ac doesn't travel well long distance (skin effect cable loss)
@@MartyT Cool thanks for the info.
@@MartyT I was thinking the same thing. But I forgot that here in USA the transmission lines are high voltage/Low frequency (60hz) . This brought back my tech training days more than 50 years ago. You refreshed my high frequency transmission line education ! Thanks. Great video.
Yes - actually the original "Fisher and Paykel Smart Motor" concept and design was developed by 2 New Zealanders, in New Zealand (if I'm not mistaken). I can't remember now whether they patented it or sold the rights before the design really took of and was duplicated under liscence by other manufactures. Does anyone else know the full story?
This is the guy I'll be partnering with in the zombie apocalypse.
Ha, get in line - I smell an auction brewing - screw that, a kidnapping ( sticking to the budget )
Me too.
Have you considered keeping the higher voltage and using a transformer closer to the termination point to reduce your losses from running a lower voltage such long distances? This would also allow the end user to keep the expensive bits at the house and make it easier to maintain.
I mean, to add to it, it would also save you money in the long run... Thick gauge wire ain't cheap! Lol
The 400VAC @ high hertz is dangerous and leaks through normal insulation.
So it gets rectified into 27VDC straight away...which charges the two truck betteries @24VDC.
Those batteries power the inverter that produces 230VAC...which is normal domestic voltage in NZ for use in the home.
This is fed from the creek up to the house 400m in normal 3 core insulated wire at minimal line loss and useable in every domestic appliance from the switchboard.
This has worked for Marty for 17 years at his home...see vids 2,3, and 4 in this series....
You could (and there are now) more batteries at the house which use a 12VDC battery charger to top them up to run the fridge and freezer...as an "in case" measure...in case something goes wrong down at the creek (which may have happened with the recent 20 inches of rain in 4 days)
Marty T
Marty T
3 hours ago
John is spot on with his reply, there are a few other reasons- the generator speed would be inefficient, optimal rpm is around 800-1000rpm. Also he intends to add another turbine at a later date, this would require another expensive cable run if pushing 3 phase.
What voltage are you getting into a rectifier from a generator with a star wiring and what voltage are you getting into rectifier with a delta wiring (AC?). What voltage are you getting out of rectifier into battery banks? Thank You
My dad used to have a set of those soldering irons, those were the days!
Same mate my old man passed away recently and it definitely took me back seeing the old soldering iron I hope to inherit my dads tools only time will tell
Yep. I still have my dad's old soldering irons too. Would've liked to have had the blow torch
I was taught Delta and Wye, military school. I think there was an advantage to Delta, perhaps for depth charges. I am curious about two things. Do most washing machines use three phase motors, or is that a local thing? And how much head is there for this water turbine? Thanks for making my brain reach into the distant past.
Some brands use these type of direct drive motors, fisher & paykel smartdrive is the one to use, other brands have aluminium wiring which is impossible to solder. Head is around 100psi
Really good project, well done to use old stuff.
Thanks so much for the detailed wiring diagrams of the 2 configurations, and the rest of the 3 outstanding videos. The one thing I don't have is a water flow to drive a turbine. 👍👍
Interesting options there, Maybe enough water flow for 2 of them at a later date!
I had a Delta wound Alternator on a truck years ago refurbished and modified by an old school auto elec and it really makes a difference most people are totally unaware is an option.
Amazing work mate. Not sure I would have the patience. I would just buy a hydro generator! Your skills are impressive.
Great show, take a look at the LG direct drive they aren’t restricted to a spline so you can adapt to a shaft as many motors as your drive can turn, cheers
Belt drive?
@@tihspidtherekciltilc5469
No, direct drive onto a shaft...
no belt needed between the brushless motor and the agitator/mechanism...
I'm watching and listening about what you are doing and believe you me even after being told whats what, Electrickery goes way over the top, watts and amps mean nothing to me, all I get is a shock now and then, It just amazes me your endless knowledge, just keep sending and I'll just watch.
Very cool man, I am jealous of the elevation change you have to drive the water wheel generator, I have barely 1 foot of drop across my 5 acres.
Wouldn't increasing the amperage lose more energy to heating during travel from the generator to your house? Or is it worth it anyway because of how little the amps were before
Depends on the wire size and wire length. More amps and volts is better(obviously). As long as he is under the wires max rating the line loss is minimal. The wire is made to handle much higher power, so in this case there is barely any loss aside from the normal resistance from the wire length. www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html You can figure it out here. I found roughly 3V of loss over 300m with a 30amp load. Valid question though
If you look at some of his other videos, you'll see that he has the battery and the inverter located right next to the generator, and runs mains voltage up to the house.
Will be AC so that's cooler for distances. It's the amps that heats it most though. High volt - low amp requires smaller wire than low volts and high amps.
This is really handy, I was thinking, if this puts out 400v I wonder if you could combine that with a 400v EV battery and that would mean the power would transport easier over distances? Then rectify the power at the house? Or would you need more expensive cabling etc?
Thanks John.. you're a wealth of knowledge mate
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq cheers John, I wasn't saying this doesn't work, the dude has too much power by the looks of it, I was asking more regarding using the 400V in a longer application (let's say from one side of a site to the other and it's a mile long or something) but I can see why you interpreted it that way as I'm saying "could you" when I probably mean, "could I" lol
LOVE YOUR WORK wow what a confusing wire up thank you keeping that ordered & properly wired looks pretty difficult
Very good video! Thanks again for taking the time to teach us this. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Fascinating that there was already a water ram pump being used to (I assume) get the house supplied way up the hill. Although the house may have been at a similar elevation to the dam. The relatively unsophisticated part of the setup seems to be the size of the nozzle jet driving the vanes.(Thinking overcapacity water wise). Couldn't this setup be used near the house using the water ram, polythene pipe to a header tank(s) and a finely controlled jet matching the turbine? Hopefully this would reduce the water usage and the storage could offset the seasonal water flow. Or is this bonkers.
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq The 'fall" can be replicated by a header tank. What it lacks in height can be replicated by volume(as long as it is practical, this is what I'm asking)) and atmospheric pressure. And what would the minimum pressure be to spin the turbine. Marty had to detune his system because it risked exceeding the capabilities and he says there is enough surplus capacity for a parallel set up. I'm trying not to forget that low cost was a major objective, just intrigued that a low cost system could be set up without the disadvantages of lowering stuff down the bank.
I have a suggestion (idea) for a close to home installation. In a pallet container. You have a low pressure after the pelton wheel and a low pressure after dump valve of a ram pump all the system needs to convert the low pressure to a high pressure with a 12 volt submersible pump you can give pre-pressure to the ram pump and ram pump equip with good expansion vessel that built up pressure of both to drive the pelton wheel all fit in that low water container that can be used constantly.And you know the rest to put that motor on the pelton.have fun
Research perpetual motion machine....
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk this type one needs pressure to keep it going. and perpetual motion is without interfering off other energy.
Hello good afternoon, I would like to know why it was decided to change the type of connection from star to Delta.
Greetings from Mexico, you did an excellent job, congratulations. 🇲🇽🇲🇽🇲🇽
Both star and delta to suit different flow rates during the year
@@MartyT oh awesome.
Does that mean that for the use that you gave it the best connection and the one that most favored the project was that type of connection since it is capable of adapting to different types of flows?
OMG a soldering iron for fixing the roof rain gutter! Mate you make an easy job difficult for yourself. For the rest; very good idea and improvisation.
Marty commented tha this 100 watt iron just didn't have enough heat in it for the job of this size of copper wire soldering.
So he selected his second-from-largest soldering bolt...acid flux...and lead solder...and great results happened...
Thought you would want to keep the voltage up and the current low to reduce the thickness requirement of power transmission, and figure out how to reduce the voltage on the other end of the transmission line (a transformer?)
Thank you for this excellent information. How do you know 1kw would be pushing the limits of the stator? & how do you know the cable & inverter losses would be 10%?
Experience...hands and ears-on experience over 17 years for the behaviour of the gen setup and maximum revs....with 280 watt and 500 watt turbines, now 885 watt turbine setup....
Re the 10% loss...
what/how have you worked out the losses?
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk I haven't, that's why I ask.
have youever mixed a bit of epoxy vatnish and just painted the wire after the connections are made? do you think that could increase durability or simply not worth the effort?
Yes that would protect it from the elements
i can do some wireing and honestly i thought i knew some about it but you are a pure genuis
All this saying that number between 5 and 7 is making an aussie laugh. and good info!
Awesome set up
I need to consider adapting your idea to a larger but slower water wheel situation... slow moving but high volume river.
What is the optimum rpm required for the motor/generator?
This one likes to going over 500rpm but you can rewire the stator to suit slower turbines
@@MartyT thanks for answer.
Let me see what I can achieve with gearing
I like the way your subs are heading,you really deserve it...and more.
if whats output is a low voltage high current ac output before you rectify it, couldn't the cable run down to the house first, then rectified and sent to the batteries/inverter in a less damp area(as AC power gets very little loss over distance via cable)?
or is it not alternating enough for that?
just wondering cause it looks like alot of the stuff is in a super damp cold area
also, great video as usual
Check the other bids 1 and 2
Untouched output high voltage, high frequency, low amps,
Skin effect gives relatively large losses transmitting power as far as house, hence rectification to usable power more suited for tramsmission
Just brilliant mate, mind blowing but brilliant! I watched the one s couple years ago of you wiring your own one and as a non electrical guy I just about followed that so was pretty pleased with myself, this one mind blown lol 😅🤦🏻 but really interesting and tbh, if needs be/situation required could be followed (even of not fully understood! Lol)
Cheers from London England 👍😎🏴
Interesting video. So is the Star and Delta premanently connected through that block, or do you disconnect the Delta wires at certain times of the year so that it only runs in Star?
Would you would have been better leaving the voltage high until you got it to the house and then step it down for the same reasons that they use high voltage on power lines across the country?
By the way, I'm curious about the gate valve you use to shutdown the turbine. With all the detail you put into your videos, once you shut it down, how do you restart it?
Manual restart, if that activates, there is a problem that needs user input to resolve
Really liked part 1+2 great job . Free electric.
dont you want high voltage for transmission? for like less resistance in cables and such to the house. then just shove it through a transformer to get the lower voltage you want. idk I don't know mutch about this stuff, is there something I'm missing?
Transmitting 240vac means very little cable loss
Apologies if already answered but out of interest. Given that electricity in low voltage doesn't like to travel long distances, would it not have been more effective to leave the output at 400v and run the wiring up to the house then house the electronics and batteries in a nicer/warmer environment? Would this not give less losses?
The generator output is high hz so doesn't travel long distance well (skin effect), also its a safety thing, I don't want anyone to be electrocuted
Sorry Marty, you lost me when you said "that's what they look like" LOL, infact I watched for another minute or two and my head exploded..!!!
Was it just like in the movie, "Mars Attacks"????? haha
in my village here in the Philippines, (i never saw one because i'm living in the city) i heard that some of our people used a windshield wiper motor and used a syringe to pressurize the water from an irrigation pipes . it can't power a whole house but can charge your dying battery phone or just power a light bulb for you to see in the dark during the night.
Great video to get us up to speed with the rewiring process. Out of interest, what charge controller are you using? Edit: Oh, are you just connecting it directly to the batteries and relying on the valve to limit charging?
If you were to get a motor with 36 coils, you could rewire it in 3 parallel sets of 4 series 3-phase coils. That should net you ~120Vmax, which is within some ~50USD MPPT chargers' input voltage range. That way you could rectify it at the source and run 2 DC wires up to the house to charge the main battery bank instead. Obviously that won't quite be as efficient as 220V, but could be offset by the fewer steps from the source to the load.
Also, you could then switch in a geyser element as a dump load instead of wasting that energy.
Interesting about the 36 coil stator, i've never actually played with one of those.. I'm using an an array analog plc as a charge controller at the house
What about keeping the 480v wiring and running it through a transformer to step down to 240, 120, 12v etc. as needed?
Dangerous voltage for an amateur to handle...
Could utilise a solar pump vfdrive to convert the output to single phase ac. Actually most 3ph vf drives have DC input terminals, but are not obviously marked.
I'll look into it thanks
@@MartyTusing VFD's are the ultimate Soft-start solution for off-grid induction loads. Installed one on the bore pump to offset the 18000w surge load on my 8kva generator...years later realised one could wire in hi voltage solar 400-450v, the VFD essentially throttled the pump to match the weather; cloud cover/shade...free running all day every day, no probs keeping the 2x5000gal tanks topped up. Cheers good hunting
Great video as always, but wouldn't it be easier to leave the motor wiring and put the high voltage into a step down transformer? Maybe one from a microwave ?
Linas Velavicius
8 hours ago (edited)
Marty after watching your Part 2 I watched a RUclips explaining the difference between conventional generator vs the new more expensive inverter type generators. I also looked up Skin Effect. For those who don’t know I copy paste the explanation from the Internet;
“The main technical difference between inverter generators and conventional generators is what kind of electricity is produce, conventional generators only produce AC electricity while an inverter generator produces electricity in three phases (high frequency AC to DC back to stable AC current)”
“Skin Effect results from circulating eddy currents, arising from a changing B field, cancelling the current flow in the center of a conductor and reinforcing it in the skin. This reduces the effective cross sectional area increasing wire resistance and losses.”
Now I understand your "inverter" setup, your cost to effectiveness ratio is just brilliant. Big fan, love your channel.
Marty T
2 hours ago (edited)
It is very hard to spin the rotor with factory wiring with a load attached, this site doesn't have enough pressure or flow, also very dangerous and high hz / high loss over long distance (skin effect
As already stated various times by Marty and others issue is high frequency, step down transformer does not change frequency , so not helpful
Absolutely brilliant Marty, I mean ur whole series, couldn’t stop watching it! Tell me, can u use an all in one inverter up to 450-500v PV input for the hydro 4-500v output direct without rewiring the motor stator? Or would the high frequency be an issue? Maybe a rectifier in between? The all in one hi frequency inverter’s on the market nowadays are getting pretty smart and good for a relatively cheap price point. Great job !
Valuable video. Can't wait to become a hermit.
Interesting. I wonder if an option to reduce one of the higher cost of the system would be to leave the output at the higher voltage and lower current. Then run that to the point of use and transform it to lower voltage and higher current. That would greatly reduce the gauge of wire needed over the long run to the point of use.
Linas Velavicius
8 hours ago (edited)
Marty after watching your Part 2 I watched a RUclips explaining the difference between conventional generator vs the new more expensive inverter type generators. I also looked up Skin Effect. For those who don’t know I copy paste the explanation from the Internet;
“The main technical difference between inverter generators and conventional generators is what kind of electricity is produce, conventional generators only produce AC electricity while an inverter generator produces electricity in three phases (high frequency AC to DC back to stable AC current)”
“Skin Effect results from circulating eddy currents, arising from a changing B field, cancelling the current flow in the center of a conductor and reinforcing it in the skin. This reduces the effective cross sectional area increasing wire resistance and losses.”
Now I understand your "inverter" setup, your cost to effectiveness ratio is just brilliant. Big fan, love your channel.
Marty T
2 hours ago (edited)
It is very hard to spin the rotor with factory wiring with a load attached, this site doesn't have enough pressure or flow, also very dangerous and high hz / high loss over long distance (skin effect
Nice job! Pretty impressive!
Thank you for taking the time to share.
Great video! so nice to see how you did the re-wiring. I'm thinking about using a few of those in factory condition in paralell to have 400V and a few Amps to charge a battery / solar system that's EU 400V based. I did look at few washing machines at the local dump, and they all had digital controllers and brushless motors that were molded into the base of the washing-drum.
Marty T
2 hours ago (edited)
It is very hard to spin the rotor with factory wiring with a load attached, this site doesn't have enough pressure or flow, also very dangerous and high hz / high loss over long distance (skin effect