Following Protocol Kills a Patient | Trauma | MD TV
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- Опубликовано: 28 дек 2022
- A new paramedic learns that sometimes you must follow instinct over protocol when protocol kills his patient.
From Trauma Season 1 Episode 12 'Protocol' - Going by the book costs Glenn a patient as he struggles to rebound from it.
Watch full episodes of Trauma here: www.justwatch.com/uk/tv-serie...
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Poor guy was so traumatised he moved to Chicago, changed his name to Kelly Severide and became a kickass firefighter! 😎
Hhahahahaha was thinking it was him
@@ryn401 It IS him, right?? Or somene else that looks like Kelly?
Btw, what is the name of this show?
Ohh.. I thought he learnt those med emergency stuff from Shay..😅😅
@@phoebepriscilla20 Trauma, like it says in the title. It was a one-season show, but I liked it.
It is him look at pics from Chicago fire and then Chicago med / this .
You play the odds when you work emergency medicine. You can't know all the facts, but you have to make a decision when seconds count. Sometimes you can do everything right and still lose.
You don't only lose people you lose your humanity as well. Because no person should ever get used to seeing that stuff and if you do you got problems. But then again people in the medical field have always given me the creeps. I have always thought that everyone in the medical field has a little lunatic/serial killer in them especially surgeons. Because only such a mind could tolerate seeing such things, it's like they get to kill people and get their Jeffrey Dahmer fix but without going to prison because they bring them back to life.
Mr Data sometimes you can make all the right moves and still loose. that is not a weakness that is LIFE!
@@Ihavenohandle.... they put their feeling aside but trust me they still feel it. Even when it is asked from the patient such as for assisted death, it is always a toll on them. He is mourning every patients he lost from illness, accident or from assisted death.
@@mauddescamps7572Thank you for understanding that aspect, and communicating it accurately.
Most civilians, don’t comprehend that aspect, of the medical field.
really appreciate them!
I could NEVER do this job! Every day peoples lives are in your hands - immediately, no warning, no chart, no history I cannot imagine how stressful that would be - bless the people who do it!
Thank you for blatantly sharing your indecisiveness and assessment/medical information. Maybe someone should bless you instead..?
@@rowdyjoringer612 I am already very blessed but thank you for wishing me more!
@@rowdyjoringer612 I made no medical assessment , nor was I indecisive- I simply am grateful for people who can do the hard jobs I know I could not. I know you mean to be unkind and insulting . Not sure why . I am a social worker, I find that most people who are angry and unkind -especially to strangers have a lot of anger and pain. I sincerely wish you blessings - no sarcasm - and peace. If i perturbed you by lauding EMTs for their work, skill and fortitude? I did not mean to . I appreciate them very much . They have saved family, friends etc I respect and admire them . Not sure why that upset you but I did not mean to.
I agree with Evan.... rowdy hope you feel better soon.
@@EvanMurphyCapstone a social worker and yet your own phrasings tell you nothing of your own mental illnesses... Right... No wonder the world is falling apart. We have useless people in important roles
Let’s get one thing straight. He did not kill him! He followed a protocol and things got out of hand. Sometimes, accidents happen. Even with trained professionals, accidents happen. Yes he will feel guilty, and yes he will feel awful, but eventually he will understand that it WAS NOT his fault. If anything, it was the people who trained him to blame. They never explained to him that protocols don’t always work! And his partner JUST NOW told him that! It’s not your fault bro! You did not kill anyone!
but the poor daughter thought
He did not follow protocol. That was bad writing. An EMT-Basic cannot legally administer nitro.
@@LucidDreamer54321 not true in West Virginia the 6000 Series EMS System Protocols authorizes the use off nitro in tablet or spray form, if he didnt have permission from higher ups to go against protocol then that’s just blatantly illegal
@UnloyalOrphan This show is in California, not West Virginia.
Yeah, I don’t like the way they phrase it as ‘you killed him!’
He didn’t! It was a tragic accident due to unusual circumstances no one could predict… and no one’s fault.
Well, one might be able to predict it at a higher level of experience, but as a newbie, you couldn’t.
So don’t tell the poor guy ‘you killed him but it wasn’t your fault’… he’s only going to process the first part in his mind! 😞
We will not blame the paramedic. He has a duty of care to follow protocol. In real life, it will up to the administration board of his paramedic unit to decide what action to take.
so true. If they don't follow protocols the consequences will be terrible for them. It is hard to bypass it... in this clip they really explain well the realities of it. Most of my family is in this field and my grandpa died because of protocols as the ER staff did not want to listen to my dad (a GP) and they went with protocols. He died of the illness my dad said would developed if niot treated. My dad was scared at the hospital as they followed protocols blindly but it was dumb even for lme not a docotor... you don't give drugs to ease symptoms before checking the patients condition... because of the drugs they are gone but the illness is still there! Same with how they took his temperatures, it was really bad. My dad was so scared of how robotic they worked. However, they are so understaffed that they cannot worked properly so to be fast they have to be work in a mechanic way in a taylorist style :s
The title is severely misleading. The "medic" who "followed protocol" was actually an EMT-Basic (as seen by the rocker above his main patch) who should not have even touched anything other than the oxygen. I myself am an EMT and never received this type of training because of how dangerous nitroglycerin is if not administered correctly. You need at least 2 years of training in a paramedic academy ON TOP of EMT training, which itself is a 120 hour training course with mandatory Ambulance ride alongs and 1 intern clinical shift at a hospital. In addition you dont want to even consider applying for paramedic school without at least 1 year of field experience. If your medic tells you to handle a heart attack while they handle another patient dont even think about giving nitro, Epi, or even setting up an IV. No EMT anywhere in the country that isn't at least an Advanced EMT is allowed to administer anything but oxygen unless local protocols allow
like she said, sometimes the protocol's wrong. the dad was still conscious and breathing, it wasn't critical to give him such drastic medication. they could've tried pushing magnesium or something else milder to bring his heart rate down, or just kept him on oxygen and fluids until he got to the hospital, so long as he was conscious.
@@dietotaku You are correct. Following protocol does not work for everyone. Protocol appears to increase medical errors. In the video if asked what message is ther to learn? we might not be able to avoid sickness, but it is better we make proper lifestyle choices as we don't want to be sick as to be a risk to paramedics.
@@dietotaku it doesn't matter if the protocol is wrong. Even if he ended up saving the dad, he'd still be in a ton of legal trouble. Patients can get a copy of the PCR which has every single thing from the time the call was received to when the transfer of care happens documented. It would have popped up one way or another
Porotcols killed my grandpa. My cousin (surgeon) and my dad (GP) told the ER what to do but they insisted that they had procedures to follow. My dad made them promised to do what he said because the protocol was not taking into consideration what my grandpa was (old though man who fell and possibly had a concussion but stayed in the snow for hours). They did not gave him the antibiotics... they checked his head and treated the head injury but he died from a pneumonia which was able to developed because they did not provided the antibiotics...Could have been avoided...
He was brought to the ER, the family were not there when he was brought there (it take us at least 1h30 to get there and even more when it is snowy)
((HUGS)) I'm so sorry!
damn man im really sorry, i hope you got thru all that ok.
@@mrchannel3760 thank you. Well I was told for my grandpa months later as I was abroad. Then they explained to me the details years later. So I had time to digest each info and take care of my feelings properly with sadness then grief as a returned and was faced with he reality and later anger.
@@pamelaj.betz-baron2420 thank you :)
And if the doctors break protocol to follow what your dad tells them to do and something goes wrong, the hospital gets sued for everything they're worth. That's not a risk they just are going to take because somebody made them promise to.
this is one of the reasons why doctors and paramedics must always have the best mental health care there is. Dealing with this more than once takes a massive toll.
the practice of medicine is a lot of science and a little luck. it really sucks, but the reality is that if you work in medicine, you're going to directly cause at least one death and almost cause dozens more because of factors you had no way of knowing about. that's part of why older doctors always seem to lack empathy and bedside manner; they've had to face the families of people they've killed. shutting off emotional responses is just about the only way you can cope with that
I went through about a year of healthcare, but never proceeded further because of things like this. I was extremely excited in the beginning of the year, but by the end I was devastated. Im a person who will remember things I dont want to remember, and will feel guilty of them for the rest of my life. I dont think I could make this job with the lingering thought in the back of my head "I could have-" "If only-" Because of me, someone lost a sibling, a parent, a grandchild, a child. I didn't take healthcare classes after that, or go beyond that.
((HUGS))
What do you do now?
Its ok. Use ur knowledge for you and your loved ones okay! 🥰 hope ur playing a great life now
When I started working for modivcare, which sets up medical transportation, I didn’t think much of it, but somewhere during training, I learned that I would have to set up transportation for women wanting to get abortions, which made me super uncomfortable. I understand why people are pro-choice, but I want no part in killing any babies.
I would not blame the paramedic. He was just doing what he thought was right. He had no way of knowing.
He's not a paramedic. He's an EMT and everything he did except administer oxygen was a violation of NREMT protocols for the EMT-B certification level
he overreacted to a mild heart attack in a still-conscious and breathing patient. he also tried to defib a patient with no pulse which even basic first aid tells you won't work.
@@21BN96 I mean, to be fair he asked for the paramedic to assist him but she told him to do it.
@@memelord1216 should've dispatched an engine for manpower when they updated it to two patients
My grandmother had a small heart attack two years ago. She was ok, but my family was so scared because she was 96 when it happened. Thankfully the doctors were able to help her before it got worse
who asked?
yeah Joshua i don't remember asking?
@@christianbroby3383 I meant that because they followed protocol she survived.
@@christianbroby3383 🤓
Ah MAN!!! What a difficult place to be in. Dude was trying to follow his training and he was doing so well! It’s was just a lack of experience. Nothing to be done.
What to do... More training?
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life"
Star Trek The Next Generation: Season 2, Episode 21 - Peak Performance
Poor guy did everything right and the patient still passed.
Actually he did do something wrong.
@@LucidDreamer54321 what did he do wrong?
@Mary Clark He is an EMT-Basic and can cannot legally administer nitro. So the show is wrong when it says he followed protocol. Also, the patient had asystole (an absence of electrical and mechanical activity of the heart) - commonly called flatline because that is how appears on a heart monitor. The EMT used a defibrillator to shock the heart. That was a waste of time and could potentially injure the patient, making the situation even worse. Asystole is not an example of a “shockable rhythm”. The only result you will ever get from shocking asystole is continued asystole. So you were wrong when you said he “did everything right”.
@@LucidDreamer54321 ah okay. Well in the canon of the show he did. And sadly this happens in real life too. I’m a disabled woman and my moms a nurse( I won’t pretend to know what she knows or understand really what you said but I’ll take your word for it) what I DO know is that in real life it’s true you can do everything right and it still doesn’t always help. It’s sad but true.
@@LucidDreamer54321 wow you have no idea what you're talking about
damn.. this is crazy because this probably happens in real life
Happens every day everywhere
All the time
And you cant always blame the doctor. When following protocol you can’t immediately prioritize other stuff besides saving your patient, even if it sometimes ends up killing them.. they were doing their job.
Annnd this is why I tell my mom I don’t wanna work in the medical field it is not for the faint of heart and well- I have a faint of heart- I wouldn’t be able to walk in the door at all-
It's rare but there are people who are allergic to something and don't know it. Or something happens, like this case, where a one in a thousand thing goes wrong. You can't blame yourself.
He handled that a lot better than I did the first time I killed someone.
…
Are you an EMT?......
Pardon?
My mom is a neuro radiologist and my father is cardiothoracic nurse and its horrible seeing their demeanor change when my mom diagnoses something where she knows the person wont survive or will be very limited in life and when my father looses someone in his shift , i cant even imagine what its like KNOWING it was something YOU DID that killed someone
Man I can’t imagine how he feels.
I thought they would tell him this.
That’s why they say practicing medicine it’s all practice for next time
well said, 100%
Sometimes you can do every single thing right and still fail. It doesn't make sense, logically. But sometimes that's just the case. In medicine you are limited to the skills and techniques and equipment of modern day. 100 years ago they would probably have just given somebody an aspirin for a broken leg. Now we can treat it so well it'll be like that leg never broke.
The camera work is all over the place😭
"You will kill someone" "the first time always sucks" Wtf?? 😅
🤨......what....is your bodycount?
@@richardsavings6690 4
The daughter just lost her father how devastatingly sad that is
Emergency Medicine is a very hard during practicing.
In seconds doctors need to know and ask patient history pain ..etc2 or if he is unconscious good luck with that if you don't have ECG around you.
I don't understand why they said they'd know better next time when the paramedic did what was supposed to happen, it just failed in a way they couldn't have seen beforehand?
Yeah, that was confusing
EMT not medic @ everyone in this comment section
@@matt92099 correcting people for no reason is not a very pleasant character trait and doesn’t make you better than anyone
@@HonorWillow never claimed it to be and not worried about how my character presents to a random person online. At the end of the day my correction was still valid no matter how rude or not rude it is
@@HonorWillow all in all get gud
Bro THE PAPERWORK after that.... ugh
Right shiiii
Poor guy
Welp, guess he is a better firefigther than emergency medicine :)
Very sad
and this is the kind of situation I feared when I thought I'd never go to med school (with my grades at school teachers were pushing towards med school). I knew the books are not what truly matters when you have lives in your hands... I respect med staff so much to deal with this every day.
Darn rip
This teaches you that death comes for you all
Look at it this way. His ass is covered because of Protocol.
That is absolutely terrifying 😢
Hey its Kelly Severide
NO NOT KELLY SEVERIDE
@@laurenblack929 yes it is
I was being sarcastic
can someone explain to me, medically, what exactly happened to this guy?
He died
Yes! So in heart attacks, most often the part of the heart that is affected is the left ventricle. You want to give these patients nitrates to reduce the oxygen demand of that part of the heart, so that cells stop dying. However, in some cases such as this one, the right ventricle is affected instead (RV infarct). Unfortunately, the right ventricle is preload dependent and therefore sensitive to nitrates in a way that the left ventricle is not. By giving nitroglycerin to this patient, the paramedic caused the right ventricle to further decompensate and the heart to stop working. Unfortunately, there is no sure way to know that the heart attack was an RV infarct without a 12-lead EKG, which they didn't have on this guy before giving him nitrates. The paramedic just had to make a call.
Source: am a med student
@@star22double Was planning to comment and explain this as well. Good job with the explanation and good luck with medical school! MD/Doctor here planning to go to emergency medicine
Healthcare worker here. When you have a heart attack, there is a blockage in one of your coronary arteries. Where the blockage is will dictate which part of the heart it damaged. For most heart attacks you want to give nitroglycerin. It is a vasodilator and it helps reduce how hard the heart has to work and improve blood flow to the heart. A side effect of this medication is low blood pressure. It is the recommended treatment for most heart attacks. The key word is most. You never want to give someone who is having a right sided heart attack nitro. When the right sided of your heart is damaged, your heart is struggling to maintain a blood pressure. By giving nitroglycerin you even further reduce the heart's ability to pump blood around the body leading to life threatening hypotension and possible cardiac arrest.
Where I work, paramedics are trained to identify which type of heart attack a patient is having (as there are complications with each type) and treat appropriately.
@@star22double I see, so (very ignorant in all this so feel free to correct me) the nitro caused blood vessels to relax, which reduces preload, which the ventricle couldn’t compensate for due to the infarct, causing a crash in blood pressure and the heart to stop?
my poor boy so sad :( now he the best firefighter on Chicago Fire and is the one giving orders not taking orders.
Experienced doctor has unintentionally killed several patients.
The paramedic looks like Nick Jonas 2.0 😂
Oh dear of a father died and the daughter had a anaphylaxis the father had a heart attack and everything they were trying to help trying to push the medication that was correct forward but I ended up he ended up dying that’s so bad
Dam that is Trauma
Possible he had ed meds last night. In that moment he wouldn’t have been able to answer if he asked. Just gotta hope not.
The issue is it was a RVI with borderline pressure so the nitro crashed him.
I don’t like how the lady doctor was like, “oh yeah you killed one, next time gets easier.” I know it’s a show but like, those are humans lives man
When he sprayed the nitro 3 times I knew it was going to be a shitshow lol, its 3 times over the span of five minutes if needed.
Peak level acting
Ya know, I'm a farmer. I have animals. I am the EMT. The mistakes hurt.
That is exactly why you tell your children. When faced with an impossible choice EVERYBODY should get voice. Especially the people who the choice directly effects. Had the parents explained the situation to the kids from the beginning they could've had a conversation and shared a moment where they all grieve together before continuing with whatever decision they make. The boy wanted to give his sister his lung so she could continue her life because he knew his life already has a limit and he's getting close to the end. He's dealt with the issue since he was a small child so its not like he doesn't understand what's happening. Children are much more capable of handling tough emotional situations like this than adults are because they're minds have yet to develop the rigid emotional boundaries of adults. They can understand complex emotional circumstances and are often much better at navigating those circumstances. That's why children should ALWAYS be involved in tough decisions that affect their lives
Huh? Dude did you come over from the House video? lmao
um, i think you may have passed from autoplay into another video while commenting.
rip, wrong video lol
While I do agree with you, as I made a similar comment; But regrettably, this is the wrong video.
But the House episode you're referring to, is an amazing episode involving ethical mathematics.
When presented with nothing but terrible options, go for the most pragmatic and logical solution.
one of the people helping here and the one who takes him hes cute
KELLY!!!
Oh and no one's to kill another person either
Poor thing
Let that be my dad, I’m suing somebody
They followed protocol
It wouldn't go anywhere because he followed protocol. Protocol actually covers his arse in this case because he had no way of knowing that what he did would lead to him dying.
You can't say someone is going to be fine. You don't know that.
They have to even if they know it's not true when the patient is in crisis, like the girl was when she said her father was going to be ok.
🔥🔥
damn never thought severide would be in this show
Fr I got so confused
Why does he defibrilate when he has Asystolie? That doesnt make sence!
It's Kelly sveride from Chicago fire
Oh, well - this is quite accurate! Nice. Earlier protocols often said Nitro for all MIs. We moved to use Nitro just for some cases and contraindicate it for others. Nitro shouldn't given in inferior wall MIs as there might be an impairment of the right ventricle. Cutting of right ventricular pre-load in these subtype leads into caediac shock and cardiac arrest.
The hospital would have played a significant part un his death, and a settlement would have been found with tge daughter behind closed doors
why are they referring to the emt as a paramedic? paramedics are taught this......emt's are not.
hi
Isn't that Kelly serveride from Chicago fire?
4:40 - 4:44
Yeah...let me just...not get sick ever, or better yet just die in my sleep.
And people ACTUALLY act like this in the medical profession, so cold and callous about someone's life being taken
It's because they have to act like that, if not, they don't think properly and they would make more mistakes.. they are humans, do you find the best solution to any problem you have when you, as human, are all full with emotions and desperation? Trust me, someone who doesn't appreciate human life wouldn't become a doctor, do you know how hard it is and how hard they work?
They can't get emotional every time something goes wrong. Not only would it make them make more mistakes, but also imagine the impact it would have on their mental health. First responders already have high suicide rates. Plus, calls can come back to back. Imagine if they took time to get emotional about this call and got called in for another medical emergency.
I'm not an EMT, but I'm a 911 dispatcher and death is part of my work life too. I can't just be at my desk crying all day.
Grove street ,they be in gta san andreas
I would have quit on the spot and I would have ended it by saying "I don't want to get use too it!!! Are you sick in the head or something?"
If my boyfriend's sisters had one that, the older one would not be the lead instructor and the younger wouldn't have gotten Paramedic of the Year and is now running her own station. They both have brought back people who have coded; unfortunately, they understand the reality that sometimes it's just not going to happen....
If everyone had this attitude there'd be no health care professionals in the world.
But yeah, it's clearly a level-headed response.
@@coffeekat5066 Well that's why I personally think everyone in the medical field has a little lunatic in them a little bit of Jeffrey Dahmer. Especially surgeons they get too kill people get their fix but no prison time because they bring them back.
She died from bee
Is this a show or does this happen in real life?
the scene is a show but medically this does happen
2:45 weren't the dad is already asystole why the medic shocked him
the emt was very new and probably very nervous, probably panicking
Damn bro fumble it.
No one thought to mention possible “changes” in protocol when they’re wrong
...severide?
Yes, It's Kelly Severide
Kelly sevried is the guy me call
🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
❤❤❤❤❤😂❤❤❤❤❤
My mom has heart problems so whenever I have a medical emergency I always tell my grandmother but not my mom. I don’t want her to have a heart attack worrying about me, I have lots of medical problems but they’re nothing compared to her. The few times we’ve had to call an ambulance they TOLD me that it was due to drugs. She stopped partying when she got pregnant with my brother (who is 6 years older then me) so that was a huge lie and I called them out on it. She was taking a bath and called out to me, and as soon as I saw her I called 911. That EMT got fired because they gave her medication for a drug overdose which made her heart attack worse. Thankfully my mom is still around today
Nah sorry if it’s protocol than he’s in the right and whoever made it protocol killed the man, funny how they blame ole dude
He did everything right and what he was trained to do. It was not his fault, the hospital should’ve told him BEFORE hand that some protocols don’t work
Anytime someone asks if someone is going to be ok, they always say they have the best paramedic/doctor/nurse caring for them… but is that even always true?
Not that you expect them to say ‘well, that guy only just barely passed training and is pretty lazy, so I don’t like the chances of your loved one surviving… but it is what it is, so just don’t worry about it’… but still!
Can’t they just stick to ‘we will do our best to make sure of that as a team.’
Which is hopeful but promises nothing and doesn’t set the bar too high (you expect top notch care from ‘the best in the city’, right?) 😞
So this girl is orphan?
OMG. Who the f is the technical writer. So off reality.
I am your first views
You've just lost your patient.
Nitro is unproven even in MI
Aspirin is better
ima be honest at my level of licensure I won't even touch Nitro
That was …. surprisingly medically accurate and inaccurate at the same time! Inaccuracy’s include defibrillating asystole, ekg not showing any sign of an MI
But it’s fairly accurate that an acute RVI requires a different therapy than a LVI! Nitrates, betablockers and diuretics are contraindicated in an RVI since they can cause a lowering of the RV preload and thus causing catastrophic haemodynamic compromise. I’m not from the US, but I doubt even an experienced paramedic could detect an RVI, since you need a right sided 12-lead ECG or an echocardiogram to diagnose it. Chapeau‘ for the research tho!
They shouldn't act like that, that was messed up.
But also, he probably shouldn't be in the field if he's freaking out like that. That tends to cause more deaths.
He just caused someone's death. Unless you're a psychpath or sociopath, I don't think anyone would be able to not freak out.
It was his first case where he accidentally killed someone, it’s normal to to be shocked and guilty after that
What's your profession/job?