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The truly terrifying aspect of Ungoliant and her offspring was that they had no aspirations beyond satisfying their own hunger. No desire to rule or dictate policy, just eat.
On the contrary I find that it makes Ungoliant a lesser threat than Melkor despite Ungoliant being maybe the most powerful being that ever was. She is driven by pure hunger, while Melkor leads armies and aims to conquer and rule
@@thorveim1174 Well, which would be more frightful? A Dark Lord of whom much is known who seeks to mimic Eru (God), or a being with uncertain origins that in a sense is a black hole sucking life out of literally everything that is? I know I'd be far more frightened of a living black hole than a dark Lord.
@@Vikingr4Jesus5919 not me. Because the living black hole is predictable. All it does is eat and eat, and it will always go where food is. The dark lord on the other hand? You will never know what he does next... No way to steer him away or tell where he will strike next. Hell, think of it that way: if she was truely alone, Ungoliant may have 'ever found the silmarils or the trees of light. She got there because the dark lord wanted her to.
@@thorveim1174 I see your point. Yet Morgoth (in this case) is bound to certain ways, and that makes him an enemy - however powerful - who has weaknesses that can be learnt and used against him. Heck, he got lullabyed to sleep by Luthien and denied to the face by Hurin the father of Turin Turambar who knew Morgoth's place towards the Valar. Ungoliant however...she destroys anything that lives, no boundaries given. And again, with no certain origin from which we might learn any weaknesses. You know the saying probably, "Know yourself and your enemy and you will win a hundred battles". But now that I have brought that up, it seems we are using the same argument for both characters haha. I reckon I would personally find Ungoliant more frightening because of how little is known about her in comparison to Morgoth, and the fact Morgoth was scared of her gives me even more reason to be frightened. And in a sense, Morgoth does not seek to entirely destroy to point of literally "sucking the life out of Creation" as Ungoliant seems to want. But I guess it's like a choice between two evils anyway. You too make a valid point, and I appreciate your time for this discussion.
Agreed. So much beautiful and provocative language and phrasing in Tolkien. With respect to Ungoliant, I've always gotten chills at the description of her spinning "webs of unlight"
The fact that her "death" is just as mysterious as her origin is the creepiest part. Perhaps she never died; perhaps she's still out there, slumbering deep beneath the earth, waiting for her chance to rise again...
She learned to feed upon the earth itself. And is now roaming beneath the surface eating out places where darkness dwells in caverns deep. Spawning many unnamed things.
Ungoliant and Morgoth's confrontation is one of the coolest things Tolkien wrote imo. Such an awesome scene. Congrats on two years and approaching 500k subscribers! You deserve all of them and more! Can't wait for your next video!
I like how he left it ambiguous as to where she ended up. It's like when you see a spider in your home, you don't kill it, and it gets away. There is an uneasiness about that despite it probably being fine.
I believe that Ungoliant was the incarnation of all that was evil and dark whilst Tom was the utter incarnation of all that was good and I believe that they act as complete opposites to one another
Ungoliant is utterly terrifying when you consider that *she doesn't follow the rules of the universe of Arda* , the only creature that can *devour light* and *grows stronger the more she destroys and devours.* Morgoth, a primeval being and a fallen Ainu, was *terrified* of this creature that did not bow to his craft nor obeyed the rules of his world.
While she was evil, I would not go as far as saying that she was the *incarnation* of evil, as the root of all evil in Tolkien's legendarium is Melkor. However, I would agree with her being the incarnation of all that was dark, or more specifically, being the incarnation of the Outer Darkness and the Void that lies beyond Arda. While we will never know, since Tolkien never elaborated on this subject, I am more inclined to see her as a spirit completely separate not only from the Ainur but also from Iluvatar himself. We do have hints in the Fellowship that point to the existence of beings not of Iluvatar's making, when Gandalf speaks of the "nameless things" that dwell beneath Moria, some of whom, he says, are older than Sauron. Considering that Sauron is an Ainu, and the Ainur were stated to be the *first* beings ever created by Eru, the only way this statement makes sense is if there are other creatures, other spirits, of different and completely independent origins. It would fit that one such creature could be the literal embodiment of Darkness and the Void, and would explain why Ungoliant's nature and powers seem so different from those of the Ainur.
I think this is because Morgoth and Sauron embody the darkest sides of human nature - Ungoliant on the other hand, embodies the most darkest and most terrifying aspects of nature. We sort of understand Morgoth and Sauron, because even though they are horrifying, they have motivations familiar to our minds. Ungoliant on the other side... She is the personification of our fear of nature, a fundamental and deadly terror that has its origins in our evolutionary psyche. For early humans, the whole world was a wilderness, filled with death and terror. And the darkness frightened them above everything else, because in the darkness, they were most vulnerable and defenseless...
I'm not. She is completely driven by her hunger. Sauron and Melkor were cunning and cruel, and accomplished as many objectives with their brain as they did with their might. Ungoliant is an abomination with little direction beyond what Morgoth gave her.
If the Valar made the world and those who entered in must clothe themselves in the raiment of the world , does it then make sense that Ungoliant can cloth herself in void of Darkness as she is from the Void beyond the doors of night
One of my favorite things about Tolkien's writing is how he blurs the borders between the physical and metaphysical. Ungoliant is probably one of the best examples of this.
The world eater lol ones she done with one she move on to the next crosing dimension and realities or she just bin a sleep for all these years or if anyone watch so what if am a spider anime she could of found some more spider in the forgotten South and turn to cannibalism and eating her own offsprings to survive and hibernating in-between
Ungoliant is a fantastic name for a being of pure darkness and evil. I like that she is "outside" of categorization and is just seen as Other, the Michael Myers of Tolkien's legendarium, no real backstory. There is an art to NOT telling, which Tolkien, who loved to tell, also understood.
I've always found Morgoth's temporary defeat by Ungoliant absolutely hilarious. Imagine being a balrog, serving the first and most powerful dark lord in the history of creation, and you're having to struggle not to laugh as you cut your boss out of a bunch of spiderwebs.
Yes, I always thought it was funny. Ungoliant keeps complaining she's hungry and Morgoth is polite to her until he's close to home. Then as soon as he feels safe, he basically tells her to f-off and nearly gets himself killed.
Morgoth: if any of you dudes tell a soul about this I swear to Eru... Gothmog: no way, boss man. We wouldn't dare ....would we guys? Morgoth: see, this is why I am going to put you in charge of my armies. Sauron would tell everyone in middle earth about this. Eye of Sauron: 👁️
Cuz you no nothing of pure evil, and the levels of Shadow. Dark femine energy is ALWAYS more powerful than dark masculine. a balance of the twain, hits Trumps, tho
The 'hide under a unpenetrateable fog/darkness' ability always cracked me up. Like "Sir, there's an unpenetrable shroud of darkness headed our way!" "Can you see what's making it?" "Uh... no, not at all" "....eh probably not a big deal"
Just had the same thought 😂Shroud of Darkness: -100% stealth, +20% cover, useless against artillery. To be fair, travelling only during the night would make this tactic more sensible.
There's an amazing song by Blind Guardian called "Into The Storm", wich is about Morgoth and Ungoliant, but mostly about Morgoth attempting to hide the silmarill from her. They have a whole album about Middle Earth, mostly Silmarillion stories, it's named "Nightfall in Middle Earth"
What about the nameless things beneath the deepest mines of moria that gnawed on the foundations of the earth? Ungoliant is at least given a clear description of having a form of a giant spider, but we may yet find more hideous forms of those nameless things that gandalf wouldn't even dare talk about in broad daylight even though he was willing to describe how hideous and slimy durin's bane became when the balrog's flame was quenched by the waters deep below. If those things traumatized an angelic being like gandalf to the point of keeping things to himself, i'd bet they could be even more frightening than Ungoliant herself. I'd love to see those on screen.
Imagine for a second: MCs enter dark void, rain pelts the mountains and vallies, washing over it yet cleansing none of the dark clouds that seem to cling to the air around them. The characters all sense that something is wrong, yet none can see anything. A darkness so solid even instincts cannot see. Suddenly a light flashes upwarda, a crack of lighting the characters would soon wish had never come. The screen flashes with light for mere seconds, revealing just 2 legs of a mammothean spider hovering over the characters, so large that each of the legs to their own was seen as a jagged rock etched into the earth. Oh so dimly, and for so little time was one detail left, only for the most attentive of watchers to see, 8 orbs became visible from that crack of lightning before the darkness that consumed all took them too. Those orbs, so high they trumped the peaks of the mountains themselves. It never needed the light to see them.
I love how she's a Lovecraftian Abomination that predates the founding of the world, a primordial entity that's unknown even to the mightiest beings. And she nearly devoured a god just because he didn't give her some sparkly gems. Morgoth might spread evil and corrupt but Ungoliant IS the void itself.
True, but I think it was only after eating the light from the trees and eating the gems that allowed her to eclipse him like that. Pretty stupid of Morgoth to let her so out of control while he wasn't exactly near his peak strength.
@@JonathanTaylor85 I think he just didn't expect it of her. He thought he was the best God around and there she is, wanting the Silmarils, and he had to send Balrogs after her. Says a lot.
Morgoth is the god of evil and Darkness but ungolianth is the personnification of the void that existed before eru created the gods .she is the Anti création, a Yang to eru ying
Melkor is the god of corruption and everything evil meanwhile Ungoliant is absolute annihilation and void, she fears not the darkness but instead consumes it
Ungoliant would be a great main villain herself...but i think thats the ''charm'' ...being a epic side character and having little information about her origin and downfall its what make me more intrigued by its character.
In this case, the mystery is more interesting than the answers which is something Tolkien thoroughly believed. When writing fiction you must consider that mystery is very intriguing as the audience can try to fill in the blanks but they won't ever actually know
I wonder if Ungoliant would have ended up being the main villain of Tolkien's scrapped sequel to Lord of the Rings-- after all, no one really knows if she's dead or not.
That line about Ungoliants webs being unpiercable by any eye is fascinating. I guess this is part of the reason that Shelob's lair is a blind spot for Sauron and ends up being the path taken into mordor
I like how Sauron seems to treat Shelob with the respect she is owed. He never tried to dominate her and let her do as she pleased in the mountains. He gave her food and she served as a watchdog for the secret stair. They had a mutually beneficial relationship. He stayed out of her way and she took care of pests. It paints an interesting counter to how Morgoth interacted with Ungoliant. He respected her out of fear but that didn't stop him from trying to screw her over. He almost paid with his life by doing that.
0:27 I always rather thought the dark creatures like Ungoliant were formed out of Melkor's discord in the song that created Arda. Just as Tom Bombadil was formed out of the harmony of the song.
Of all the beings in Tolkien's work, I would say she is the one nearest to a lovecraftian abomination, something that drives a primal unknowing fear into anyone faced with her, able to destroy fundamental concepts like light itself and turn it into darkness. Even the Balrogs or dragons like Ancalagon, terrifying in ther own, don't compare with the insidious fear and emptiness ungoliant creates
I wonder why Ungoliant (which seems to be the mother of all spiders) feeds on light, but all her offspring are scared of it. One thing for sure, if Frodo had pull out his light on a light-eating spider, he would have been in real trouble haha
I would say the life she devoured like from the two trees was life force itself. Like magic we're all other light was not. Except maybe the trinket that galadriel gave to frodo. I'm with you on that one she would have wanted to eat that too you would think. That's a good call my friend
Shelob and ungoliants offspring fearsome as they were, were positively puny compared to her. Only a balrog like shown in the film gave a sense of how massive and terrifying she potentially was. I do wish there is a film on beren and luthien.
good point lol. ungoliant ate the origin of the light in frodo's phial. the phial contained the "light of earendil," aka the light of the silmaril that earendil carries in the sky. being a silmaril, its light came from the two trees which ungoliant devoured
Brilliant. Thank you! Started reading "The Hobbit" in 1977 when I was still in what we call "Infant school" and then "The Lord of the Rings" in 1984. I have to say, the spiders of Mirkwood and Shelob were actually my favourite of all of the evil creatures.
Even the characters just going from one location from another to destroy things sounds godly with how it was all written. Tolken had a natural skill for epic stories.
Balrogs have wings and can fly question answered: That distance the Balrogs traveled to save melkor makes me think they could actually fly (and quite fast) to be able to make it to melkor in time.
Also bear in mind that the dragons had not been created yet as the Balrog often used dragons as mounts. But also this would have been before Tolkien revised his thoughts on the Balrog. As originally there were thousands but then he later changed it to nor more than 7 had ever existed with 3 being the general consensus if those which actually fought in middle earth. I believe they could fly but its still debatable. But they are lessor gods so they should he able to do anything they wanted.
VIDEO CONTENT: What would have happened if Ungoliant devoured Morgoth and The Silmarils? Would all the Valar together been able to defeat Her? Or would Middle Earth became one giant Web of Death?
What I would think: Ungoliant had no desire for domination, just wanted to consume. If she devoured Morgoth, the root of evil would have been destroyed. Everyone would rejoice, no one would hunt Ungoliant for it. If she also devoured the Silmarils, the Oath of the Sons of Fëanor would make sure they would hunt Ungoliant, and most likely they wouldn't succeed, ending the line of Fëanor. Ungoliant would then just resume with what she has done. Create some realm, breed, leave the realm and go south and consume itself. Baleriant would have never been destroyed and most of the stories as we know would have never happend :D
Ungoliant would grow so big and so hungry that she'd try to eat everything in existence like a black hole. Not only would she devour all the light in the world along with the Silmarils but also one of the most powerful beings in existence, just below Eru Iluvatar. Nothing less than Eru Iluvatar's direct intervention can stop Ungoliant by that point.
This would be a great "What if?" video I think: What if Ungoliant managed to slay and devour Melkor, along with the Silmarils, before he could be rescued by his Balrogs?
Ungoliant would become the 2nd most powerful being in Arda just below Eru Iluvatar, after devouring the entity that had that title. She'd then start devouring the whole world like a black hole (she took the form of a spider, but it isn't her true form) and only Eru Iluvatar's direct intervention can stop her.
@BKNTV 2.0 Disagree. Unlike Ungoliant, Melkor knew fear. He was afraid of Tulkas and (to some degree) Manwe. Not so with Ungoliant who just devours as she pleases. The only reason she couldn't devour Melkor was because she was blindsided and attacked by the Balrogs. Had Ungoliant taken in Melkor's power I think she would represented a serious threat to Tulkas and Manwe
Melkor and Ungoliant fleeing Valinor... Ungoliant: I'm starving! Melkor: Here have some jewels body! Ungoliant: Oh thanks, man...um what about the silmarils? Melkor: They are not for eating! Ungoliant: What about their legs? They don't need those!
Imagine a Silmarillion movie where you see Melkor soon to be called Morgoth walking in the pitch black darkness. He stops and red eyes open and she moves forward revealing a monstrous spider. I love the idea and am scared just thinking about it. But I don’t think there’s anyone that can be trusted with making The Silmarillion into an amazing movie. Peter Jackson did amazing with the Lord of the Rings. Sadly he didn’t have the same control over the Hobbit. Anyways, I would love to see Morgoth, Ungoliant, Tulkas etc in a movie. Fingolfin vs Morgoth would be awesome.
Thank you, NOTR! I've heard many Tolkien fans speak on Ungoliant, and after your Shelob video, I knew I wanted to here yours too. You do good work. You often choose the perfect images to illustrate your points, and you work hard in your research. Definitely one of my favorite channels. Looking forward to The One Ring video. Keep up the good work.
Great video Matt! My theory about Ungoliant is she’s more like Tom Bombadil in a way since we don’t know how she came about like Bombadil. But also unlike Bombadil who doesn’t take sides she teams up with Melkor
@@ChiaraSiasat yea, while tom bombadil represents nature's piece and order of valars and maiars obidient to Eru Illuvatar, that how ungoliant represents the greed of melkor, but since all ainurs were more powerful before the arda was created, that would also explain why melkor/morgoth at the time when he stole three silmarilis was weaker than Ungoliant, she is basically the "incarnation" of his power invested while he created distortions in the music itself(especially in the second theme where his cords almost dominated it). The way i see it, the every single event, combat and ages were dictated and summarized in the music of the Ainur.
I super got back into LOTR after stumbling unto a video of yours. I've been systematically watching all of your videos. Huge fan! Can't wait for the new series!
Another fantastic video. It's always interesting when villains fight. Their cutthroat nature makes conflict inevitable and yet it's always thrilling, at least to me. Keep up the great work.
I like to think of Ungoliant and Tom Bombadil being something of byproducts of the existence of darkness and light, respectively. They've each been around for what is essentially all of time and they have something of an infinite power in their realms. Ungoliant is the embodiment of darkness and Bombadil the embodiment of light.
Exactly two unsolved mysteries, somewhat opposite to each other in spirit and deed...seems to be a mayor lesson hiding in plain sight. Ungoliant is eternal hunger or greed, Bombadil doesn't need a thing in the world and is yet content.
Personally, I believe that Ungoliant was the living incarnation of the Outer Darkness and the Void that lies beyond Arda. While we will never know, since Tolkien never elaborated on this subject, I am more inclined to see her as a spirit completely separate not only from the Ainur but also from Iluvatar himself. We do have hints in the Fellowship that point to the existence of beings not of Iluvatar's making, when Gandalf speaks of the "nameless things" that dwell beneath Moria, some of whom, he says, are older than Sauron. Considering that Sauron is an Ainu, and the Ainur were stated to be the first beings ever created by Eru, the only way this statement makes sense is if there are other creatures, other spirits, of different and completely independent origins. It would fit that one such creature could be the literal embodiment of Darkness and the Void (neither of which were ever hinted as being created by Eru, unlike the material world), and would explain why Ungoliant's nature and powers seem so different from those of the Ainur. It would also fit into the very nature *of* her powers, wielding blackness completely devoid of any light, and never being able to sate her hunger, as though an endless void dwelt inside her.
Yes. I consider the possibility that Arda is but one incarnation of the world and that ancient powerful spirits that are not from the music might have entered it uninvited, so to speak. Tom Bombadill might've seen Arda take shape around him, being caught in it by chance. His own words seem to suggest as much: that he existed there before anything else did.
So excited for next week's video! I've discovered and become a huge fan of your channel and its videos ever since Covid-19 first started. Doing remote work, watching your videos has become a staple of my Wednesday mornings. In turn it has led me into a magnificent journey of reading through Middle-Earth literature. I started with Humphrey Carpenter's biography of Tolkien and from there went to The Hobbit and LotR. Following the advice of one of your more recent videos, I now have "The Children of Hurin" on hold at my local library for my next read. I can't wait for my sons to get a little older so that they can enjoy this world too!
You're among my favorite loremasters and my favorite for the works of JRRT. Well done once again. Your work never fails to be entertaining, informative, and interesting. I look forward to the vid on The One Ring.
Thank you for mentioning the text! Sorry just exasperated at how many people come up with hare-brained ideas for where Ungoliant came from, when it says so in the Silmarillion. Love this channel, thanks for bringing up Ungoliant's origin Nerd of the Rings! Can't wait for your next video X)!
I don't think it's just the fact she's a huge dark spider (which is terrifying in itself), but that she is so mysterious, so incomprehensibly ancient, powerful and evil. Definitely got a lot of that cosmic horror going on.
I would love to see a video that summarizes the simalrian. With all your art maps and explanations, it would really help make sense of a story that I’ve been so lost in with all the new names, places and people.
I'm inclined to believe Ungoliant didn't die; rather I think she delved into the earth, and lingers down there, feeding off of the gems and metals of Aulë, like she ate the jewels of Fëanor, fattening and and turning the foundations of the earth into her feces. Who knows, maybe in the end, it will be her who brings the Dagor Dagorath, having been forgotten and left undisturbed for ages, to gnaw at the very roots of Arda... As a minor detail, I find it interesting that the name "Ungoliant" sounds like the English word "ungodly", which a quick Google search defines as irreligious/godless or sinful. It is a perfect description for Ungoliant, since she seems to be disconnected from both Eru and the Valar (godless), and wishes to devour everything (sinful).
Excellent work Mellon! Spiders scare me to death. If anyone thought shelob was scary.....you ain't seen her mom. Sweet lord! Keep up the great work! ECTHELION! Sincerely, Lord Storm Crow the Brun
This was amazinggggggggg Every video you make is perfect! You`re the best tolkien channel, my friend. From start to end and all within it: the pictures, the voices, the music, how long the quates are, even the number of ads during the video.. You`re the best! thanks!
@Josh Bishop @Michael Chui I watched an episode of WIRED with the Tolkien Professor Cory Olsen recently, where he discuss this question, he says that they DON'T have wings (I recommend watching it for the whole answer). Even though the wording "with winged speed" sure alludes to it I feel, regardless of what "fly" is meant here. Also because they were so far away and could get there so fast. It could also be just that some chapters in Silmarillion are written almost as fairy tales (this one included, and for instance Beren and Lúthien too), exact times are usually not an issue when it comes to things like traveling in fairy tales (even if Tolkien is pretty exact with his whole lore) but I mean it to have the "fairy tale" aspect in mind when something "seems off" (since Tolkien most likely was fully aware of it so it had a purpose), plus they are magical beings which I don't mean that 'anything goes' only because of that, but that there is a reason for it to be written like that. But that's just my take on it. Otherwise he could easily have dodged that "issue" by having the Balrogs by coincidence roaming close to them and then hearing Morgoths shouts. And let's not forget that Balrogs are maiar too, so they don't necessarily have to have the same shape at all times.
Something I love about Tolkeins work is that he creates such detail and lore the fill his worlds, entire cities and ages of history, that the open-ended questions or plot holes that do show up not only feel natural, but intentional. What exactly was Ungoliant? Who is Tom Bombadil? What exactly are the Unknown Things deep under the earth? It tickles the imagination rather than displays laziness
I agree but I think he's the only one and even then we never know what could happen. Maybe Ungoliant got so powerful and so hungry she might have been able to eat him.
@@marleyjr00 At equal size, Ancalagon wins and it's not even close. Good luck piercing through those dragon scales and not getting your webs literally vaporated by the hottest fire in all of Middle earth. Needless to remind you that Ancalagon walks over mountains like it is Legos. Though Ungoliant does have rare and mystical capabilities but I don't think it would matter much in a full fledged duel.
Well Ancalagon was a dragon with a huge size and a power capable of driving back the Valar army. I doubt even an abomination like Ungoliant would want to take on a beast like that in a 1vs1
@@antoneverbright If literal god's can't free themselves from her webs or avoid her "unlight" then how could Ancalagon? If elves and humans can pierce dragonhide hide, then why would a cosmic spider struggle to? It doesn't make sense to imply that Ancalagon would win when Ungoliant has nearly devoured his creator. If Ungoliant is capable of even contending with melkor then Ancalagon couldn't possibly be a threat. Also, Ancalagon was slain by a half Human half elf called Earendil. If he can pierce his hide, why wouldn't Ungoliant be able to?
@@michaelis2958 it makes no sense to say that, if Ungoliant is capable of contending with melkor, who Ancalagon doesn't even come close to, then why would she struggle to fight Ancalagon? Ancalagon was slain by a literal human sized being, size evidently isn't a factor in the fight and that's the only thing Ancalagon has got over Ungoliant.
Not only I'm both frightened and amazed about Ungoliant, but also I am so fascinated about the concept of her webs made of darkness and her Unlight. I can only try to imagine how that would look like in real life, maybe like a very dark stain in front of you, in the middle of space, similar with what a black hole would look like.
There is another tale regarding the fate of Ungoliant, its possibly an idea that Tolkien had and then abandoned but it speaks of the travels of Earendil and a battle with a giant Spider daemon in the deserts of the far south of middle earth which ultimately resulted in him killing the monster.
@@Buizerd88 Well Earendil was born many many centuries after Ungoliant killed the two trees of Valinor and as she was hungry for light but is unlikely to have found anything deep in the desert it is likely that by the time Earendil found her she was nowhere near as powerful as she once was. However most prefer the story the she consumed herself in her insatiable hunger.
@@thedarknesscallingme I definitely have always prefered the older Earendil version. But that's also tied up in how I interpret what men are supposed to be.
This was such an awesome VIDEO! I wonder if Ungoliant is still in the south of the world or dead? Once again Tolkien leaves that to our minds and I love that! Also, I am very excited about your one RING Video!!! =D
She was around the light to begin with I'm guessing. While her offspring became used to the dark, and over time couldn't stand the light. Just thinking out loud, help me out people. to me it 'remains to be unseen'. See what I did there lol....Always loved this channel.
Remember when you think nothing can be more terrifying or evil than Morgoth, there's something he himself fears beyond everything. One thing doesn't make sense though, if it could overpower Morgoth and its webs could hold Tulkas, how come the Balrogs were able to get rid of it?
Because Morgoth saw Ungoliant for what it was and used his most powerful servants to attack it directly. Tulkas had no idea he was dealing with an eldritch being that devours light and weaves webs of darkness. The Balrogs of Morgoth, let's remember, were still among the Maiar that commanded the power of fire. It was perhaps one instance where beings created from Morgoth's discord did something good *despite* their evil, rebellious nature.
"Power" in Tolkien's world doesn't work in a strictly hierarchical manner. Morgoth was weakened in this situation while Ungoliant had grown in power. I doubt that she could've overpowered him in all his might and dark glory, but at this moment, he was quite vulnerable. Also, he later dispersed his power among his servants snd became more "earthbound". When the sun appeared for the first time, he and his servants didn't dare to attack Arien (unlike Tilion) and feared her, even though she was "just" a Maia.
My theory is that Ungoliant was created by accident through Melkor's disharmony in the Ainulindale. Somewhere between the harmony and disharmony, unrecognized by Melkor and even Eru himself, she descended upon Arda before the Valar and thus, came unnoticed.
That’s what the nameless things are. And maybe she is one of the nameless things, but that’s never outright said. Which makes me think she’s something else entirely.
Thanks for this and all your other videos that help fill the gaps in my knowledge of Tolkien's lore. One video I'd love to see is a history of the life of Mithros. I remember you briefly mentioning once that he died with a simaril, but I've never heard his full story.
Matt, one RUclipsr stated that Ungoliant came from Middle Earth, traveled South and crossed crossed the Belegaer to get to Southern Aman. I remember reading about that, but you did not include it, so do you have another take on how she got there? Remember, Aman did not exist in the original Creation. It was made after Almaren was destroyed, becoming the new home of the Ainur.
Top notch quality, as usual. Thank you very much. As far as her origins, here’s my onion for everyone who’s asking for it…lol: Everything in Arda was made from the Music therefore someone, probably Melkor and his discord, added her to the Music. When Eru made the Music into a vision and then the vision into reality, everything that was sung came true. (I.e., Yavanna wishing the trees to talk and fend for themselves) However, none of the Ainur fully understood the theme at the beginning before Arda was made so maybe Melkor “sung/made” Ungoliant a little to powerful as she was likely the first addition to the song by Melkor and had the longest time alive, aside from Tom, although, who’s to say Tom and Ungoliant weren’t in the world at the same time. If she was a Maia that Melkor corrupted during the discord of the Music, why wouldn’t all of the Maia be able to be so strong and contend with the dark lord? #FreeMorgoth #WWETBD #OhMyGondor
There are times that Tolkien's inspiration or thoughts are clear to see. For instance it isnt hard to draw parallels to WWI and the Bible. But I seriously wonder what was going on when he came up with Ungoliant
I wonder how powerful Ungoliant was before she got buffed , seems like in her base form she feared Melkor who was already severaly weakened at that point , feel like Ancalagon and Sauron with the Ring could have defeated her , all in all her 'fight' with Melkor wasn't fair knowing the circumstances
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NEW CHANNEL! Nerd Jr and I are starting a second channel where we share our love of LEGO! First video coming this week!
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badass videos dude!
Good luck with the new channel.
Do you have a Lego Legolas?
The truly terrifying aspect of Ungoliant and her offspring was that they had no aspirations beyond satisfying their own hunger. No desire to rule or dictate policy, just eat.
On the contrary I find that it makes Ungoliant a lesser threat than Melkor despite Ungoliant being maybe the most powerful being that ever was. She is driven by pure hunger, while Melkor leads armies and aims to conquer and rule
@@thorveim1174 Well, which would be more frightful?
A Dark Lord of whom much is known who seeks to mimic Eru (God), or a being with uncertain origins that in a sense is a black hole sucking life out of literally everything that is?
I know I'd be far more frightened of a living black hole than a dark Lord.
@@Vikingr4Jesus5919 not me. Because the living black hole is predictable. All it does is eat and eat, and it will always go where food is. The dark lord on the other hand? You will never know what he does next... No way to steer him away or tell where he will strike next. Hell, think of it that way: if she was truely alone, Ungoliant may have 'ever found the silmarils or the trees of light. She got there because the dark lord wanted her to.
@@thorveim1174 I see your point. Yet Morgoth (in this case) is bound to certain ways, and that makes him an enemy - however powerful - who has weaknesses that can be learnt and used against him. Heck, he got lullabyed to sleep by Luthien and denied to the face by Hurin the father of Turin Turambar who knew Morgoth's place towards the Valar.
Ungoliant however...she destroys anything that lives, no boundaries given. And again, with no certain origin from which we might learn any weaknesses. You know the saying probably, "Know yourself and your enemy and you will win a hundred battles".
But now that I have brought that up, it seems we are using the same argument for both characters haha.
I reckon I would personally find Ungoliant more frightening because of how little is known about her in comparison to Morgoth, and the fact Morgoth was scared of her gives me even more reason to be frightened. And in a sense, Morgoth does not seek to entirely destroy to point of literally "sucking the life out of Creation" as Ungoliant seems to want. But I guess it's like a choice between two evils anyway.
You too make a valid point, and I appreciate your time for this discussion.
@@Vikingr4Jesus5919 so do I :)
"When in her uttermost famine, she devoured herself at last" Love that part
I like to think that by deciding to spawn her brood she "devoured herself" because by that choice she birthed the very things that consumed her.
Agreed. So much beautiful and provocative language and phrasing in Tolkien. With respect to Ungoliant, I've always gotten chills at the description of her spinning "webs of unlight"
I always prefered the earlier drafts where Earendil killed her.
Even within loose threads of story, tolkien was able to weave a beutiful story in a mere sentence. Not requiring a 8-12 episode streamed tv series.
I was scrolling the comments know there would of course be comments hating on the new series, which of course nobody has even seen yet
The fact that her "death" is just as mysterious as her origin is the creepiest part. Perhaps she never died; perhaps she's still out there, slumbering deep beneath the earth, waiting for her chance to rise again...
She learned to feed upon the earth itself. And is now roaming beneath the surface eating out places where darkness dwells in caverns deep. Spawning many unnamed things.
😱😱
Would be cool if the rings of power show her
@@jakeman025 hahaha that sh!tshow? ok
@@flycrack7686 you’ve seen it? Link it to me.
Ungoliant and Morgoth's confrontation is one of the coolest things Tolkien wrote imo. Such an awesome scene. Congrats on two years and approaching 500k subscribers! You deserve all of them and more! Can't wait for your next video!
Thanks so much! It will be a lot of fun to hit a new milestone!
Besides the fact that I feel somehow the balrogs traversing such a distance so quickly that they save him is silly, I completely agree
I want to confirm something are melcor and morogoth the same person?
@@hassanawdi3793 Yes. Melkor was his name before his treason. Afterward, the elves called him Morgoth.
@@hassanawdi3793 yes completely. He becomes known as morgoth after his origins as melkor
I like how he left it ambiguous as to where she ended up. It's like when you see a spider in your home, you don't kill it, and it gets away. There is an uneasiness about that despite it probably being fine.
If its small...it comes back bigger😳
I have no uneasiness about spiders, I am not an arachnophobe.
@@bujdosogyula3429 congratulations, I guess?
Most spiders are no threat. Unless you live in Austalia.
@@CordeliaWagner1999 That's not the point.
I believe that Ungoliant was the incarnation of all that was evil and dark whilst Tom was the utter incarnation of all that was good and I believe that they act as complete opposites to one another
Like the yin and yang of Middle Earth (sort of...).
Ungoliant is utterly terrifying when you consider that *she doesn't follow the rules of the universe of Arda* , the only creature that can *devour light* and *grows stronger the more she destroys and devours.* Morgoth, a primeval being and a fallen Ainu, was *terrified* of this creature that did not bow to his craft nor obeyed the rules of his world.
Even including Ungoliant having offspring and Tom and Goldberry not having any.
While she was evil, I would not go as far as saying that she was the *incarnation* of evil, as the root of all evil in Tolkien's legendarium is Melkor. However, I would agree with her being the incarnation of all that was dark, or more specifically, being the incarnation of the Outer Darkness and the Void that lies beyond Arda.
While we will never know, since Tolkien never elaborated on this subject, I am more inclined to see her as a spirit completely separate not only from the Ainur but also from Iluvatar himself. We do have hints in the Fellowship that point to the existence of beings not of Iluvatar's making, when Gandalf speaks of the "nameless things" that dwell beneath Moria, some of whom, he says, are older than Sauron.
Considering that Sauron is an Ainu, and the Ainur were stated to be the *first* beings ever created by Eru, the only way this statement makes sense is if there are other creatures, other spirits, of different and completely independent origins. It would fit that one such creature could be the literal embodiment of Darkness and the Void, and would explain why Ungoliant's nature and powers seem so different from those of the Ainur.
@@marinusvonzilio9628 Ungoliant is closer to one of Lovecraft's eldritch abominations than Tolkein's creatures
I’m more frightened of Ungoliant than Melkor or Sauron. What a fearsome creature.
Especially since she's darkness itself, a primordial entity, that will withstand until the end of the universe.
I think this is because Morgoth and Sauron embody the darkest sides of human nature - Ungoliant on the other hand, embodies the most darkest and most terrifying aspects of nature. We sort of understand Morgoth and Sauron, because even though they are horrifying, they have motivations familiar to our minds. Ungoliant on the other side... She is the personification of our fear of nature, a fundamental and deadly terror that has its origins in our evolutionary psyche. For early humans, the whole world was a wilderness, filled with death and terror. And the darkness frightened them above everything else, because in the darkness, they were most vulnerable and defenseless...
"The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown." H.P. Lovecraft
I'm not. She is completely driven by her hunger. Sauron and Melkor were cunning and cruel, and accomplished as many objectives with their brain as they did with their might. Ungoliant is an abomination with little direction beyond what Morgoth gave her.
If the Valar made the world and those who entered in must clothe themselves in the raiment of the world , does it then make sense that Ungoliant can cloth herself in void of Darkness as she is from the Void beyond the doors of night
One of my favorite things about Tolkien's writing is how he blurs the borders between the physical and metaphysical. Ungoliant is probably one of the best examples of this.
I'm convinced Ungoliant is one of Lovecraft's creations that blundered into Tolkien's works
Did Tolkien read Lovecraft?
That could make a good episode. Did Tolkien reference Lovecraft in his letters?
The world eater lol ones she done with one she move on to the next crosing dimension and realities or she just bin a sleep for all these years or if anyone watch so what if am a spider anime she could of found some more spider in the forgotten South and turn to cannibalism and eating her own offsprings to survive and hibernating in-between
She feels like a demon of the warp from Warhammer 40k
I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if that was the case.
she is Chaugnar
Ungoliant is a fantastic name for a being of pure darkness and evil. I like that she is "outside" of categorization and is just seen as Other, the Michael Myers of Tolkien's legendarium, no real backstory. There is an art to NOT telling, which Tolkien, who loved to tell, also understood.
I've always found Morgoth's temporary defeat by Ungoliant absolutely hilarious. Imagine being a balrog, serving the first and most powerful dark lord in the history of creation, and you're having to struggle not to laugh as you cut your boss out of a bunch of spiderwebs.
Yes, I always thought it was funny. Ungoliant keeps complaining she's hungry and Morgoth is polite to her until he's close to home. Then as soon as he feels safe, he basically tells her to f-off and nearly gets himself killed.
This one 🤣
Ungoliant give me more!
Melkor No you fat pig do you want to eat the universe too!
Ungoliant Eat Melkor!
Melkor eek!
Morgoth: if any of you dudes tell a soul about this I swear to Eru...
Gothmog: no way, boss man. We wouldn't dare ....would we guys?
Morgoth: see, this is why I am going to put you in charge of my armies. Sauron would tell everyone in middle earth about this.
Eye of Sauron: 👁️
Cuz you no nothing of pure evil, and the levels of Shadow. Dark femine energy is ALWAYS more powerful than dark masculine. a balance of the twain, hits Trumps, tho
The 'hide under a unpenetrateable fog/darkness' ability always cracked me up.
Like "Sir, there's an unpenetrable shroud of darkness headed our way!"
"Can you see what's making it?"
"Uh... no, not at all"
"....eh probably not a big deal"
Just had the same thought 😂Shroud of Darkness: -100% stealth, +20% cover, useless against artillery. To be fair, travelling only during the night would make this tactic more sensible.
"It's nothing, just a wisp of cloud!"
There's an amazing song by Blind Guardian called "Into The Storm", wich is about Morgoth and Ungoliant, but mostly about Morgoth attempting to hide the silmarill from her.
They have a whole album about Middle Earth, mostly Silmarillion stories, it's named "Nightfall in Middle Earth"
Where can I run
How can I hide
The Silmarils
Gems of treelight
Their life belongs to me
Oh it's sweet how the
Darkness is floating around
That's a great album. Some of the best metal music ever written. Catchy as hell
@@lucasjleandro we are following the will of the one?
It's surprising and also sad how so few Tolkien fans know about Bling Guardian.
My favorite album of all time. Blind guardian and Tolkien!! Can it get any better?
Ungoliant on screen would be so fearsome. She has to be the most terrifying creature in all of Tolkien's lore.
I don't think animation of Ungoliant would do her horrifying visage justice
What about the nameless things beneath the deepest mines of moria that gnawed on the foundations of the earth? Ungoliant is at least given a clear description of having a form of a giant spider, but we may yet find more hideous forms of those nameless things that gandalf wouldn't even dare talk about in broad daylight even though he was willing to describe how hideous and slimy durin's bane became when the balrog's flame was quenched by the waters deep below. If those things traumatized an angelic being like gandalf to the point of keeping things to himself, i'd bet they could be even more frightening than Ungoliant herself. I'd love to see those on screen.
Everyone has the platonic ideal of a horrifying spider, even me who loves spiders. Trying two animate that might be sick but that takes away a bit
Imagine for a second:
MCs enter dark void, rain pelts the mountains and vallies, washing over it yet cleansing none of the dark clouds that seem to cling to the air around them. The characters all sense that something is wrong, yet none can see anything. A darkness so solid even instincts cannot see. Suddenly a light flashes upwarda, a crack of lighting the characters would soon wish had never come. The screen flashes with light for mere seconds, revealing just 2 legs of a mammothean spider hovering over the characters, so large that each of the legs to their own was seen as a jagged rock etched into the earth. Oh so dimly, and for so little time was one detail left, only for the most attentive of watchers to see, 8 orbs became visible from that crack of lightning before the darkness that consumed all took them too. Those orbs, so high they trumped the peaks of the mountains themselves. It never needed the light to see them.
I think ancalagon would be as scary since u know u dead either way if u see them
Honestly I can imagine Melkor crying like a little baby for his balrogs to come and kill a regular spider.
He's just like me fr
Arachnophobia can turn the most macho dude into a weeping child.
he got ptsd
ITS GOT TOO MANY LEGS
@@spyrosblt3320
That would explain why he would not leave Angband until he had to face Fingolfin. That big, bad, scary spider was out there.
I love how she's a Lovecraftian Abomination that predates the founding of the world, a primordial entity that's unknown even to the mightiest beings.
And she nearly devoured a god just because he didn't give her some sparkly gems. Morgoth might spread evil and corrupt but Ungoliant IS the void itself.
True, but I think it was only after eating the light from the trees and eating the gems that allowed her to eclipse him like that. Pretty stupid of Morgoth to let her so out of control while he wasn't exactly near his peak strength.
@@JonathanTaylor85 I think he just didn't expect it of her. He thought he was the best God around and there she is, wanting the Silmarils, and he had to send Balrogs after her.
Says a lot.
Morgoth is the god of evil and Darkness but ungolianth is the personnification of the void that existed before eru created the gods .she is the Anti création, a Yang to eru ying
Melkor is the god of corruption and everything evil meanwhile Ungoliant is absolute annihilation and void, she fears not the darkness but instead consumes it
The only creature that is more terrifying and mysterious is Tom Bombadil
Ungoliant would be a great main villain herself...but i think thats the ''charm'' ...being a epic side character and having little information about her origin and downfall its what make me more intrigued by its character.
In this case, the mystery is more interesting than the answers which is something Tolkien thoroughly believed. When writing fiction you must consider that mystery is very intriguing as the audience can try to fill in the blanks but they won't ever actually know
Yes!!!! Very well put!
I wonder if Ungoliant would have ended up being the main villain of Tolkien's scrapped sequel to Lord of the Rings-- after all, no one really knows if she's dead or not.
Rather than a main villain, she's more chaotic Evil.
On the bad side out of convenience, but actually a wild card.
Saving this to watch later. Ungoliant is like one of the coolest evil creatures in all fiction. Great collection of lore. Very engaging.
That line about Ungoliants webs being unpiercable by any eye is fascinating. I guess this is part of the reason that Shelob's lair is a blind spot for Sauron and ends up being the path taken into mordor
I like how Sauron seems to treat Shelob with the respect she is owed. He never tried to dominate her and let her do as she pleased in the mountains. He gave her food and she served as a watchdog for the secret stair. They had a mutually beneficial relationship. He stayed out of her way and she took care of pests.
It paints an interesting counter to how Morgoth interacted with Ungoliant. He respected her out of fear but that didn't stop him from trying to screw her over. He almost paid with his life by doing that.
@@25Erix that just proves that Sauron really was more intelligent and cunning than his former Master.
@@lonestarwolfentertainment7184 but not as egotistical. Which is a weakness as you implied.
However Shelob feared the light of earindil (or the silmarils) unlike her mother. Interesting difference.
0:27 I always rather thought the dark creatures like Ungoliant were formed out of Melkor's discord in the song that created Arda. Just as Tom Bombadil was formed out of the harmony of the song.
Same. That's also where I think the Nameless Things came from as well.
Of all the beings in Tolkien's work, I would say she is the one nearest to a lovecraftian abomination, something that drives a primal unknowing fear into anyone faced with her, able to destroy fundamental concepts like light itself and turn it into darkness.
Even the Balrogs or dragons like Ancalagon, terrifying in ther own, don't compare with the insidious fear and emptiness ungoliant creates
I wonder why Ungoliant (which seems to be the mother of all spiders) feeds on light, but all her offspring are scared of it. One thing for sure, if Frodo had pull out his light on a light-eating spider, he would have been in real trouble haha
I would say the life she devoured like from the two trees was life force itself. Like magic we're all other light was not. Except maybe the trinket that galadriel gave to frodo. I'm with you on that one she would have wanted to eat that too you would think. That's a good call my friend
Shelob and ungoliants offspring fearsome as they were, were positively puny compared to her. Only a balrog like shown in the film gave a sense of how massive and terrifying she potentially was. I do wish there is a film on beren and luthien.
good point lol. ungoliant ate the origin of the light in frodo's phial. the phial contained the "light of earendil," aka the light of the silmaril that earendil carries in the sky. being a silmaril, its light came from the two trees which ungoliant devoured
She was around the light to begin with I'm guessing. While her offspring became used to the dark, and over time couldn't stand the light.
nerd of the rings is so underrated. his voice over for characters plus all the knowledge i never knew i needed keeps me going everyday.
Brilliant. Thank you! Started reading "The Hobbit" in 1977 when I was still in what we call "Infant school" and then "The Lord of the Rings" in 1984. I have to say, the spiders of Mirkwood and Shelob were actually my favourite of all of the evil creatures.
"The Balrogs 'fly with winged speed'" 🤣😂😆😂🤣
Here we go again! 🤣😂😆😂🤣
Forget the eagles. Why didn't the Fellowship just fly on a balrog to Mount Doom?
/s
@@scribblescribble
😂🤣😆
Thanks for the laughs.😆🤣😂
Even the characters just going from one location from another to destroy things sounds godly with how it was all written. Tolken had a natural skill for epic stories.
"She went to the forgotten South" let me guess, Australia?
another reason "the gods" decided to seperate that island from the rest 😆
Everyone's seen the spiders in Australia. We know that's where's she went.
Balrogs have wings and can fly question answered:
That distance the Balrogs traveled to save melkor makes me think they could actually fly (and quite fast) to be able to make it to melkor in time.
Also bear in mind that the dragons had not been created yet as the Balrog often used dragons as mounts. But also this would have been before Tolkien revised his thoughts on the Balrog. As originally there were thousands but then he later changed it to nor more than 7 had ever existed with 3 being the general consensus if those which actually fought in middle earth. I believe they could fly but its still debatable. But they are lessor gods so they should he able to do anything they wanted.
VIDEO CONTENT: What would have happened if Ungoliant devoured Morgoth and The Silmarils? Would all the Valar together been able to defeat Her? Or would Middle Earth became one giant Web of Death?
What I would think:
Ungoliant had no desire for domination, just wanted to consume. If she devoured Morgoth, the root of evil would have been destroyed. Everyone would rejoice, no one would hunt Ungoliant for it. If she also devoured the Silmarils, the Oath of the Sons of Fëanor would make sure they would hunt Ungoliant, and most likely they wouldn't succeed, ending the line of Fëanor.
Ungoliant would then just resume with what she has done. Create some realm, breed, leave the realm and go south and consume itself.
Baleriant would have never been destroyed and most of the stories as we know would have never happend :D
Feanor would have slayed her cruelly. He nearly beat all balrogs by himself.
@@Deckeon74 yeah but Feanor got killed by just Balrogs. Ungoliant almost ate the literal Satan of that world. Feanor would probably stand no chance.
@@marleyjr00 ok Feanor plus sons. Buhbye giant spider race.
Ungoliant would grow so big and so hungry that she'd try to eat everything in existence like a black hole. Not only would she devour all the light in the world along with the Silmarils but also one of the most powerful beings in existence, just below Eru Iluvatar. Nothing less than Eru Iluvatar's direct intervention can stop Ungoliant by that point.
This would be a great "What if?" video I think: What if Ungoliant managed to slay and devour Melkor, along with the Silmarils, before he could be rescued by his Balrogs?
Ungoliant would become the 2nd most powerful being in Arda just below Eru Iluvatar, after devouring the entity that had that title. She'd then start devouring the whole world like a black hole (she took the form of a spider, but it isn't her true form) and only Eru Iluvatar's direct intervention can stop her.
Can Morgoth die?
@@MarvinT0606 wait, if she wasn't actually a spider, how come her offspring were?
@BKNTV 2.0 Disagree. Unlike Ungoliant, Melkor knew fear. He was afraid of Tulkas and (to some degree) Manwe. Not so with Ungoliant who just devours as she pleases. The only reason she couldn't devour Melkor was because she was blindsided and attacked by the Balrogs. Had Ungoliant taken in Melkor's power I think she would represented a serious threat to Tulkas and Manwe
Melkor and Ungoliant fleeing Valinor...
Ungoliant: I'm starving!
Melkor: Here have some jewels body!
Ungoliant: Oh thanks, man...um what about the silmarils?
Melkor: They are not for eating!
Ungoliant: What about their legs? They don't need those!
meats back on the menu boys!!
Imagine a Silmarillion movie where you see Melkor soon to be called Morgoth walking in the pitch black darkness. He stops and red eyes open and she moves forward revealing a monstrous spider. I love the idea and am scared just thinking about it. But I don’t think there’s anyone that can be trusted with making The Silmarillion into an amazing movie. Peter Jackson did amazing with the Lord of the Rings. Sadly he didn’t have the same control over the Hobbit. Anyways, I would love to see Morgoth, Ungoliant, Tulkas etc in a movie. Fingolfin vs Morgoth would be awesome.
I think a well written lore accurate and single 2.5 hour Silmarillion film directed by PJ would be a masterpiece.
Thank you, NOTR!
I've heard many Tolkien fans speak on Ungoliant, and after your Shelob video, I knew I wanted to here yours too.
You do good work. You often choose the perfect images to illustrate your points, and you work hard in your research. Definitely one of my favorite channels. Looking forward to The One Ring video.
Keep up the good work.
Melkor: No enemy can't stop me, or i am Melkor, mightiest among the Valar. But that thing....that damn spider-like creature scares the crap out of me"
Great video Matt! My theory about Ungoliant is she’s more like Tom Bombadil in a way since we don’t know how she came about like Bombadil. But also unlike Bombadil who doesn’t take sides she teams up with Melkor
Maybe both of them were created by the Music of the Ainur/Melkor respectively at the beginning of everything what would happen in Arda/Middle earth.
@@zabababa9969 that was my thinking as well
@@ChiaraSiasat yea, while tom bombadil represents nature's piece and order of valars and maiars obidient to Eru Illuvatar, that how ungoliant represents the greed of melkor, but since all ainurs were more powerful before the arda was created, that would also explain why melkor/morgoth at the time when he stole three silmarilis was weaker than Ungoliant, she is basically the "incarnation" of his power invested while he created distortions in the music itself(especially in the second theme where his cords almost dominated it).
The way i see it, the every single event, combat and ages were dictated and summarized in the music of the Ainur.
FINALLY! Ungoliant is the most interesting character to me!
I super got back into LOTR after stumbling unto a video of yours. I've been systematically watching all of your videos. Huge fan! Can't wait for the new series!
Can we all agree that Melkor and Ungoliant memes are pure gold?
Not really
Another fantastic video. It's always interesting when villains fight. Their cutthroat nature makes conflict inevitable and yet it's always thrilling, at least to me. Keep up the great work.
This video is amazing! Ungoliant and Shelob are some of my favorite LOTR characters. I also love The Mouth Of Sauron!🤘
Love your channel, I've been binge watching most of your videos for about a week or so, and I just love it!!! Really good job!!!
Thanks so much! Glad you are loving the videos!
I like to think of Ungoliant and Tom Bombadil being something of byproducts of the existence of darkness and light, respectively. They've each been around for what is essentially all of time and they have something of an infinite power in their realms. Ungoliant is the embodiment of darkness and Bombadil the embodiment of light.
Exactly two unsolved mysteries, somewhat opposite to each other in spirit and deed...seems to be a mayor lesson hiding in plain sight. Ungoliant is eternal hunger or greed, Bombadil doesn't need a thing in the world and is yet content.
I just read the Shelobs Lair chapter from Two Towers and um… she was absolutely terrifying.
Clearest reference to beren fighting her in ered gorgoroth
Personally, I believe that Ungoliant was the living incarnation of the Outer Darkness and the Void that lies beyond Arda.
While we will never know, since Tolkien never elaborated on this subject, I am more inclined to see her as a spirit completely separate not only from the Ainur but also from Iluvatar himself. We do have hints in the Fellowship that point to the existence of beings not of Iluvatar's making, when Gandalf speaks of the "nameless things" that dwell beneath Moria, some of whom, he says, are older than Sauron.
Considering that Sauron is an Ainu, and the Ainur were stated to be the first beings ever created by Eru, the only way this statement makes sense is if there are other creatures, other spirits, of different and completely independent origins. It would fit that one such creature could be the literal embodiment of Darkness and the Void (neither of which were ever hinted as being created by Eru, unlike the material world), and would explain why Ungoliant's nature and powers seem so different from those of the Ainur. It would also fit into the very nature *of* her powers, wielding blackness completely devoid of any light, and never being able to sate her hunger, as though an endless void dwelt inside her.
Yes. I consider the possibility that Arda is but one incarnation of the world and that ancient powerful spirits that are not from the music might have entered it uninvited, so to speak. Tom Bombadill might've seen Arda take shape around him, being caught in it by chance. His own words seem to suggest as much: that he existed there before anything else did.
Such a good comment, you tickle my brain bro
@@xergiok2322 just tap dancing through the void with ungoliant, imagining her with 8 yellow wellies gives me joy.
Same. Her and Melkor are like Chaos and Lucifer from Paradise Lost.
So excited for next week's video! I've discovered and become a huge fan of your channel and its videos ever since Covid-19 first started. Doing remote work, watching your videos has become a staple of my Wednesday mornings. In turn it has led me into a magnificent journey of reading through Middle-Earth literature. I started with Humphrey Carpenter's biography of Tolkien and from there went to The Hobbit and LotR. Following the advice of one of your more recent videos, I now have "The Children of Hurin" on hold at my local library for my next read. I can't wait for my sons to get a little older so that they can enjoy this world too!
You're among my favorite loremasters and my favorite for the works of JRRT. Well done once again. Your work never fails to be entertaining, informative, and interesting. I look forward to the vid on The One Ring.
Amazing work. I really love the info you give.
Thanks!!
Ooh great choice man. Fingers crossed for dol amroth soon
Congratulations on the 500k subscribers and 2 years!! You deserve everything!
Saved me from the stress of my assessments 🙌🏻
Thank you for mentioning the text! Sorry just exasperated at how many people come up with hare-brained ideas for where Ungoliant came from, when it says so in the Silmarillion. Love this channel, thanks for bringing up Ungoliant's origin Nerd of the Rings! Can't wait for your next video X)!
Thanks a lot for this series, it helps me a lot in understanding the Tolkien world better, as well as remaining my interest. 👍😉
Your channel is literally the thing that got me into lotr in the first place about half a year ago! Keep up the good work man!
I love hearing stories like this! So glad the channel could be a gateway into Middle-earth for you!
I don't think it's just the fact she's a huge dark spider (which is terrifying in itself), but that she is so mysterious, so incomprehensibly ancient, powerful and evil. Definitely got a lot of that cosmic horror going on.
I love your channel, Matt… long live Nerd pf the Rings, bro! Thank you for your amazing content!
I would love to see a video that summarizes the simalrian. With all your art maps and explanations, it would really help make sense of a story that I’ve been so lost in with all the new names, places and people.
Yes pls!!!!
Heard the Tolkien Estate recently may allow for a film to be made about the Silmarillion. It would be a treat to see Ungoliant on a big screen...
I'm inclined to believe Ungoliant didn't die; rather I think she delved into the earth, and lingers down there, feeding off of the gems and metals of Aulë, like she ate the jewels of Fëanor, fattening and and turning the foundations of the earth into her feces. Who knows, maybe in the end, it will be her who brings the Dagor Dagorath, having been forgotten and left undisturbed for ages, to gnaw at the very roots of Arda...
As a minor detail, I find it interesting that the name "Ungoliant" sounds like the English word "ungodly", which a quick Google search defines as irreligious/godless or sinful. It is a perfect description for Ungoliant, since she seems to be disconnected from both Eru and the Valar (godless), and wishes to devour everything (sinful).
Nerd of the Rings for President!
Another Grand Slam of Story Telling, Art Work, and mind relieving insight!
Thank you !
Excellent work Mellon! Spiders scare me to death. If anyone thought shelob was scary.....you ain't seen her mom. Sweet lord! Keep up the great work! ECTHELION!
Sincerely,
Lord Storm Crow the Brun
This was amazinggggggggg
Every video you make is perfect!
You`re the best tolkien channel, my friend.
From start to end and all within it: the pictures, the voices, the music, how long the quates are, even the number of ads during the video..
You`re the best! thanks!
"his cry is heard by his balrogs, who fly with winged speed across Beleriand to his rescue"
So, is this metaphorical, or evidence for wings?
It's evidence for the Fellowship growing wings after Gandalf tells them, "Fly, you fools!"
@Josh Bishop @Michael Chui I watched an episode of WIRED with the Tolkien Professor Cory Olsen recently, where he discuss this question, he says that they DON'T have wings (I recommend watching it for the whole answer). Even though the wording "with winged speed" sure alludes to it I feel, regardless of what "fly" is meant here. Also because they were so far away and could get there so fast.
It could also be just that some chapters in Silmarillion are written almost as fairy tales (this one included, and for instance Beren and Lúthien too), exact times are usually not an issue when it comes to things like traveling in fairy tales (even if Tolkien is pretty exact with his whole lore) but I mean it to have the "fairy tale" aspect in mind when something "seems off" (since Tolkien most likely was fully aware of it so it had a purpose), plus they are magical beings which I don't mean that 'anything goes' only because of that, but that there is a reason for it to be written like that. But that's just my take on it. Otherwise he could easily have dodged that "issue" by having the Balrogs by coincidence roaming close to them and then hearing Morgoths shouts.
And let's not forget that Balrogs are maiar too, so they don't necessarily have to have the same shape at all times.
Something I love about Tolkeins work is that he creates such detail and lore the fill his worlds, entire cities and ages of history, that the open-ended questions or plot holes that do show up not only feel natural, but intentional. What exactly was Ungoliant? Who is Tom Bombadil? What exactly are the Unknown Things deep under the earth?
It tickles the imagination rather than displays laziness
I still do believe that Ancalagon would overpower Ungoliant in a duel in terms of sheer force.
I agree but I think he's the only one and even then we never know what could happen. Maybe Ungoliant got so powerful and so hungry she might have been able to eat him.
@@marleyjr00 At equal size, Ancalagon wins and it's not even close. Good luck piercing through those dragon scales and not getting your webs literally vaporated by the hottest fire in all of Middle earth. Needless to remind you that Ancalagon walks over mountains like it is Legos.
Though Ungoliant does have rare and mystical capabilities but I don't think it would matter much in a full fledged duel.
Well Ancalagon was a dragon with a huge size and a power capable of driving back the Valar army. I doubt even an abomination like Ungoliant would want to take on a beast like that in a 1vs1
@@antoneverbright If literal god's can't free themselves from her webs or avoid her "unlight" then how could Ancalagon? If elves and humans can pierce dragonhide hide, then why would a cosmic spider struggle to? It doesn't make sense to imply that Ancalagon would win when Ungoliant has nearly devoured his creator. If Ungoliant is capable of even contending with melkor then Ancalagon couldn't possibly be a threat. Also, Ancalagon was slain by a half Human half elf called Earendil. If he can pierce his hide, why wouldn't Ungoliant be able to?
@@michaelis2958 it makes no sense to say that, if Ungoliant is capable of contending with melkor, who Ancalagon doesn't even come close to, then why would she struggle to fight Ancalagon? Ancalagon was slain by a literal human sized being, size evidently isn't a factor in the fight and that's the only thing Ancalagon has got over Ungoliant.
Not only I'm both frightened and amazed about Ungoliant, but also I am so fascinated about the concept of her webs made of darkness and her Unlight. I can only try to imagine how that would look like in real life, maybe like a very dark stain in front of you, in the middle of space, similar with what a black hole would look like.
I’m not scared of spiders, but she is horrific. One of the scariest things Tolkien had written 🕷🕸
Wow, this is the first time that I grasp how horrifying Ungoliant was, what a great character -- and great work by you, as always.
There is another tale regarding the fate of Ungoliant, its possibly an idea that Tolkien had and then abandoned but it speaks of the travels of Earendil and a battle with a giant Spider daemon in the deserts of the far south of middle earth which ultimately resulted in him killing the monster.
Glad he abandoned that idea :D Earendil killing the being that had the power to destroy Melkor would not work imo
@@Buizerd88
Well Earendil was born many many centuries after Ungoliant killed the two trees of Valinor and as she was hungry for light but is unlikely to have found anything deep in the desert it is likely that by the time Earendil found her she was nowhere near as powerful as she once was. However most prefer the story the she consumed herself in her insatiable hunger.
@@thedarknesscallingme I didnt count on the fact that she would lose power over time :D I like it better that she consumed herself aswell ;d
@@thedarknesscallingme I definitely have always prefered the older Earendil version. But that's also tied up in how I interpret what men are supposed to be.
This is the best Tolkien channel on youtube!
I'd like to imagine that Tolkien found Spiders to be so repulsive that no being, no matter how evil could have created them.
I find it hilarious how much Tolkien disliked cats. I'm surprised it wasn't a cat who put Ungoliant up to her troublemaking.
As someone who spent several years of his life in a muddy hole in the ground, I'm sure Tolkein had plenty of unpleasant experiences with spiders.
Looking forward to your "One Ring" special. :D I love your videos, they are of such high quality.
This was such an awesome VIDEO! I wonder if Ungoliant is still in the south of the world or dead? Once again Tolkien leaves that to our minds and I love that! Also, I am very excited about your one RING Video!!! =D
Love your channel and ALL things Tolkien, fantastic artwork and content thank you brother!
So dope to finally see this.
She was around the light to begin with I'm guessing. While her offspring became used to the dark, and over time couldn't stand the light. Just thinking out loud, help me out people. to me it 'remains to be unseen'. See what I did there lol....Always loved this channel.
Remember when you think nothing can be more terrifying or evil than Morgoth, there's something he himself fears beyond everything. One thing doesn't make sense though, if it could overpower Morgoth and its webs could hold Tulkas, how come the Balrogs were able to get rid of it?
fire whips burn the webs? plot armor for Melkor?
Fitting weapons and numbers I would assume.
Because Morgoth saw Ungoliant for what it was and used his most powerful servants to attack it directly. Tulkas had no idea he was dealing with an eldritch being that devours light and weaves webs of darkness. The Balrogs of Morgoth, let's remember, were still among the Maiar that commanded the power of fire. It was perhaps one instance where beings created from Morgoth's discord did something good *despite* their evil, rebellious nature.
They didn't get rid of her, they drove her away. She probably would've eaten them had she been angrier.
"Power" in Tolkien's world doesn't work in a strictly hierarchical manner. Morgoth was weakened in this situation while Ungoliant had grown in power. I doubt that she could've overpowered him in all his might and dark glory, but at this moment, he was quite vulnerable. Also, he later dispersed his power among his servants snd became more "earthbound". When the sun appeared for the first time, he and his servants didn't dare to attack Arien (unlike Tilion) and feared her, even though she was "just" a Maia.
Congrats in 500K subscribers! It's awesome that over half a million people have subscribed to a channel devoted to Tolkein's work.
My theory is that Ungoliant was created by accident through Melkor's disharmony in the Ainulindale. Somewhere between the harmony and disharmony, unrecognized by Melkor and even Eru himself, she descended upon Arda before the Valar and thus, came unnoticed.
That’s what the nameless things are. And maybe she is one of the nameless things, but that’s never outright said.
Which makes me think she’s something else entirely.
@@jmeds94 Well, she can't be one of the nameless things. This should be obvious from the fact that she has a name.
I think Eru knows all
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO FOR MONTHS!!! THANK YOU!!!
I believe Ungoliant is just Tolkien's representation of chaos. You could almost call her "primordial".
Thanks for this and all your other videos that help fill the gaps in my knowledge of Tolkien's lore. One video I'd love to see is a history of the life of Mithros. I remember you briefly mentioning once that he died with a simaril, but I've never heard his full story.
Good video but It would be also intresting if you talked a Little bit more abaut what She Is (the way you did with Tom) and her scale of powers
Great video dude! You really do a great job at gathering information for, and making sense of, these stories
Great video!!!!!!! Amazing keep it up!
I hope that this channel and the entire family keep growing and reach newer heights.
I never like that stinky spider! Another amazing video, just keep going, good luck with Lego!
Ungoliant one of the fearst creatures in this universe . Absolutely its incredible creatures in this universe. Love from Sri Lanka 🇱🇰🤝🏴.
The Ungoliant story is easily my favorite part of the Silmarillion, forget Beren and Luthien.
Best LotR fan channel by far! Keep up the good work!
Matt, one RUclipsr stated that Ungoliant came from Middle Earth, traveled South and crossed crossed the Belegaer to get to Southern Aman. I remember reading about that, but you did not include it, so do you have another take on how she got there? Remember, Aman did not exist in the original Creation. It was made after Almaren was destroyed, becoming the new home of the Ainur.
Top notch quality, as usual. Thank you very much.
As far as her origins, here’s my onion for everyone who’s asking for it…lol:
Everything in Arda was made from the Music therefore someone, probably Melkor and his discord, added her to the Music. When Eru made the Music into a vision and then the vision into reality, everything that was sung came true. (I.e., Yavanna wishing the trees to talk and fend for themselves) However, none of the Ainur fully understood the theme at the beginning before Arda was made so maybe Melkor “sung/made” Ungoliant a little to powerful as she was likely the first addition to the song by Melkor and had the longest time alive, aside from Tom, although, who’s to say Tom and Ungoliant weren’t in the world at the same time.
If she was a Maia that Melkor corrupted during the discord of the Music, why wouldn’t all of the Maia be able to be so strong and contend with the dark lord?
#FreeMorgoth
#WWETBD
#OhMyGondor
Awesome video!
The calling of the balrogs would be so epic to see always love the vids man
Fun fact: Ungoliant was mentioned in "Hobbit: Unexpected journey".
Yup, by Radagast.
@@etinarcadiaego7424 Wait what ? i missed that part
I always can get myself into a good mood listening to this channel! I hope you get 500k very soon!
There are times that Tolkien's inspiration or thoughts are clear to see. For instance it isnt hard to draw parallels to WWI and the Bible. But I seriously wonder what was going on when he came up with Ungoliant
Loved the video. Great work!
I wonder how powerful Ungoliant was before she got buffed , seems like in her base form she feared Melkor who was already severaly weakened at that point , feel like Ancalagon and Sauron with the Ring could have defeated her , all in all her 'fight' with Melkor wasn't fair knowing the circumstances
If real fights were ever actually fair, no one would ever win.
Great direction. Great reading. Great illustrations. Thank you!