Thanks Cappy! I was probably more myself in this episode than any previous episode (save for the time my son Cole greeted me in Oregon). There was really so much more story to tell... We connected in Vermont last week. It was already late in the day, and we had no idea where we were camping. I ruled out Plan A the night before, due to a treacherous stream crossing, and then Plan B was foiled because the road was unmaintained and a major thoroughfare for snowmobiles. It was legal for us to be there, but snowmobiles pack down the snow and make it difficult to traverse in Jeeps. We gave it a shot, but had to bail. Ended up falling back to a gravel parking lot for the night, which was totally improvised. I really should've been recording, but I didn't have the presence of mind!
That chicken and sweet potato looked good. Nice to see you cooking up good meals, it’s better that way all round. Thanks for posting. Nice to meet Jen and Monty. Monty is awesome.
Well I thought this episode was great and you look like you enjoyed yourself with Jen and her dog I really enjoy watching you two episodes every night I’m from Slidell Louisiana 35 minutes out of New Orleans happy trails
Found your channel recently and I love your style. You seem to be very sincere and a very nice guy. The episode with your son in Washington go me on tears.
Summers On Wheels: Good luck getting answers to any questions. Chris doesn’t seem to come communicate in these comments. It’s very comical that other commentators seem to answer but never the owner of the channel. Bizarre.
She's adorable and gorgeous(Monty's sister). This is whats lacking in your previous videos Dude. Though I appreciate you previous videos due to serenity and in one with nature, but Jenny is the missing link. She makes you smile. Added some spice in your vids. Monty is the icing of the cake that makes the whole experience memorable. Cheers :)
My in laws lived right up the hill from the West Townshend country store for years. I ran down stairs to show my wife where you were. Great episode. Jen is super cool.
Thanks, Brian! We were about ready to leave from Grafton and start working our way into New York. We wanted to grab a bite, so I did some quick Googling and found the West Townshend Country Store that was along our route. We were delighted. Would go back in a heartbeat.
I got up this morning, SOOOO excited to watch this episode, and here I find myself, inspired and excited after watching!! :D This is what I took away from the episode: 1. Monty is adorable and I want to pet him. 2. Jennifer is beautiful and I'm looking forward to meeting her! 3. The "why don't you sit on the toilet" had me dying when Jennifer started laughing. 4. The pickle plate transfer was hysterically funny and I don't know why! 5. This video was awesome and you have nothing to apologize for! Each video gets better and better! 6. 6/6 Overlanders would recommend this video.
1. Yes. 2. *squirts you with garden hose* 3. That toilet is a freakin' Swiss Army knife. Extremely underrated kit. 4. Pickles are gross. 5. Thank you! 6. Okay.
firstly I'm 66 so this is going back some time... the pickle incident reminded me of my dad and mom... my dad would put his chicken bones on the side of my mom's plate. My mom one day said " we've been married 55 years and you always put your chicken bones on my plate,,, why on earth do you do that? My dad said with no expression at all and plain straight face... " Well, I don' want them on my plate!" I couldn't stop laughing... I think they were in their '70s at the time... Love the episode... it looks like you two get along great together
Thanks! We might be sporadic at first, as we're still strategizing and tending to our individual ends. However, we expect to sync up much more frequently as time goes on! :)
Not too far from PA down here in DE, Lums Pond state park campground is open year round and this time of year it's a ghost town. Full hook ups and brand new shower and bathroom facilities and you pretty much have the entire park, which sits on a huge lake, to yourself.
Found your channel... I like this style of video as it is real, so many leave out some of the uncomfortable type situations and sanitize every bit of the experience. I think that can mislead a person into thinking. Oh.. I am all in and the come to find out.. all in and not digging it. Nice job and I will keep watching.
I have a motto when it comes to my work: "Authenticity is paramount." I promise to always be forthcoming and real, no matter where this road takes me. Thank you so much, and thanks for following along!
Thank you so much for the kind words Tim! Not sure I'm all that cool - think that's just Chris's excellent editing skills! Monty on the other hand is absolutely cool! Thank you for watching! Was the best week. Sad I have to "ride the desk" for a week before we can re-connect with Chris for more learning and exploring.
Thanks! Grafton is a little piece of heaven on Earth. It's like you're stepping into a postcard. On top of that, it's surrounded by some fantastic Class IV primitive roads. I love Vermont.
Great Episode Chris!! You both looked so happy traveling together, hope you two are able to meet up again soon. Can't wait to try the new skottle recipes. Thanks Jennifer!! Thanks for sharing!!
Thank you Tim! We had a wonderful week, wonky weather and all. Counting down the days till we can get back after it as a little pack of three. Monty is going stir-crazy already!
Thanks Tim! We had an amazing time, and we can't wait to reconnect! Jenn is SO much more skilled with the skottle than I can ever hope to be. Seriously. Last week, I used it to reheat Pizza Hut. How sad is that?
It's all about surrounding yourself with great people and I think you both are great. Are you planning on coming through the Southwest this Year? Have fun, be safe and thanks for taking us along.
Glad you dug the video! So many people were like, "Chris. WHY do you keep going TOWARD colder weather?!" Truth is, I'd endure much colder if it meant spending time with her. (yeah, I'm pretty far gone)
If you guys get together in the future, would love to see you both do overlanding on a Bimobil EX 480 Mercedes Atego 4x4. That wpould be SOOOOO BADAAAASSSS!
This past trek, with the exception of Grafton where we had access to a great many amenities due to my work with the Inn there, only stayed in each location for the night and would have been little too much set-up/breakdown... BUT... now you planted the seed in my head! I'll be like, "Hun... about that awning room..." ;)
Trust me, the thought occurred to me. We were dealing with A LOT of ice and snow. I love my ARB awning, but torrential rain can kill it if you're not careful, so it doesn't stand a chance in snow! I would've love to put it out though, and I certainly won't hesitate if the weather suits!
I am from... well... most recently, I've lived in Lancaster. My storage unit is in Lancaster. My parents live in Pottstown, which is kind of near Philly, and I use their driveway, and their shower a lot.
I love your vlog. When are you going to get back to the Goose Gear install? I have some of their gear coming and I want to see your install so I won't make any of the same mistakes. :-)
Thanks, Barbara! I am working on Goose Gear right now. I hope to have it installed by the end of the week. This week's episode should be about the Goose Gear setup pretty much entirely. :)
I have asked this question to a few other overlanders on RUclips . But I am wondering what time of jobs you guys have to allow you to take these long trips away from home and work? This is something I would really like to get into after the service. Thanks! Love the videos
Hey Jarrett! When I first set off, I supported myself by doing web development. However, a year later, I am now a full-time content producer. My lifestyle, and this video series is my full-time job. It's not quite as glamorous as it sounds. I once ate someone's discarded cheese nachos that I found in a public park, and they were even wet from being hit by a nearby sprinkler. That being said, it can be done. You just have to go after it! Thank you for following along, and for your service! :)
I'm newly all in on the road, though been self-employed full-time as a professional photographer for nearly a decade and use to working remotely/running a small business. I second Chris, it sounds far more "romantic" than it is most days. It's all a balance of how uncomfortable one is willing to be, to live what feels to them to be an authentic life. One also lets go of and gives up "stuff". Though you sorta leave it behind to make room for life experiences. It's also fair to note, for every long trip there tends to be a string of shorter ventures for attending to maintenance on the Jeep, or tending to business matters which require less time off-grid on an "adventure" and more time than we like "plugged-in" working with clients, etc. Jobs which lend well to this lifestyle tend to be consulting of some sort, online teaching, web-related, writing, graphic design, videography, photography, financial advisors, etc. Now with all that, bare in mind quite a few folks on RUclips have full-time jobs, overlanding on the weekends, and their longer trips using vacation time, etc. Cheers!
Folks, could our boy from Lancaster, PA be falling in love?? What do you all think? Forget about the dog being energetic, I haven’t seen Chris so energetic since he got that pop-up tent. Could Chris and Jennifer hit it off into a romantic relationship? Did you see the heart shaped sliced carrots? 😊 I’m mean the woman can cook. They make a good couple. Let’s see what develops.
I'm not sure on retailers but here's their website: tembotusk.com That was my first experience with the nifty contraption, was a treat to cook on. Already thinking up ideas for our next venture.
tembotusk.com/ Thanks! Glad you dig the video AND the skottle! We had so much fun with it this past week. In fact, it's still in my Jeep covered in eggs and bacon, because it was 7 degrees out and I was too lazy to wipe it off. :(
I do hope you and your gf can meet up with Jenn and Monty again, i did hear from Jenn by email not too long back as like most viewers here wanted to say how inspirational and awesome she is given what shes been through in her life, anyway hope she is doing well during this pandemic situation as its been a rough time for everyone.
Ha ha, well I am a Vermont resident and Chris (venture4wd) is a PA resident but we met up to do some photographer/video work in the darling town of Grafton, VT - which I can not recommend highly enough!
Chris you haven't looked this happy since being with your son! Awesome! She is awesome! Thanks Jennifer, we love this guy!
Thank you SO much!
jenn is such a wonderful human being. So humane & so real.
LOVE IT !YOU BOTH DID GREAT! LOOKED LIKE FUN , COLD & GREAT PLACES TO VISIT. BE SAFE!
Another great video Chris thank you😎👍
Jennifer and Monty are infectiously fun and she clearly has a great effect on you as well. awesome
Chris, if I may, Ive seen all your episodes. Loved them. Go back and get that girl. That’s the one for for you.
This was awesome! I've watched all the recent videos but had to go back and see where this all started. What a great week!
This was one of my favorite video's.
Great episode Chris! You stayed “yourself” even with another person and a very energetic dog. Things will become more organic has time evolves.
Thanks Cappy! I was probably more myself in this episode than any previous episode (save for the time my son Cole greeted me in Oregon). There was really so much more story to tell...
We connected in Vermont last week. It was already late in the day, and we had no idea where we were camping. I ruled out Plan A the night before, due to a treacherous stream crossing, and then Plan B was foiled because the road was unmaintained and a major thoroughfare for snowmobiles. It was legal for us to be there, but snowmobiles pack down the snow and make it difficult to traverse in Jeeps. We gave it a shot, but had to bail. Ended up falling back to a gravel parking lot for the night, which was totally improvised.
I really should've been recording, but I didn't have the presence of mind!
U had your mind on other things. I totally understand
@@venture4wd What happened to this gal? Go get her back in current travel journeys!
That chicken and sweet potato looked good. Nice to see you cooking up good meals, it’s better that way all round. Thanks for posting. Nice to meet Jen and Monty. Monty is awesome.
Chris, loving your co-adventures with Jen. She and Monte are awesome. Hopefully get to camp with you again when you head south to Virginia.
great job.... you two make a cute couple
Go Overlanding.
Peace
Great video. You looked really happy. Look forward to more videos with your team.
Thanks Mark! We had an amazing time, and yes... I am most certainly happy. :)
Well I thought this episode was great and you look like you enjoyed yourself with Jen and her dog I really enjoy watching you two episodes every night I’m from Slidell Louisiana 35 minutes out of New Orleans happy trails
Found your channel recently and I love your style. You seem to be very sincere and a very nice guy. The episode with your son in Washington go me on tears.
Summers On Wheels: Good luck getting answers to any questions. Chris doesn’t seem to come communicate in these comments. It’s very comical that other commentators seem to answer but never the owner of the channel. Bizarre.
Great chemistry between the two of you! Loved it!
Thank you, Gary! This was our first run together and she is absolutely amazing. :)
It was wonderful I enjoyed every minute even came back to Finish. After being interuptuted. Great job both you.
Thank you Karen! I'm glad you enjoyed!
Good to find someone with similar interest, don't change a thing.
John, I have to be honest with you. I never expected to meet such a kindred spirit, especially one so lovely.
Definitely start thinking like a team including Monty. You look happy.
Thanks, Vinnie! Definitely happy! :D
She's adorable and gorgeous(Monty's sister). This is whats lacking in your previous videos Dude. Though I appreciate you previous videos due to serenity and in one with nature, but Jenny is the missing link. She makes you smile. Added some spice in your vids. Monty is the icing of the cake that makes the whole experience memorable. Cheers :)
Thank you!! Truer words have never been spoken.
Dear God now yall are sharing the toilet. Glad you found somebody to hang with. Great video!
My in laws lived right up the hill from the West Townshend country store for years. I ran down stairs to show my wife where you were. Great episode. Jen is super cool.
Thanks, Brian! We were about ready to leave from Grafton and start working our way into New York. We wanted to grab a bite, so I did some quick Googling and found the West Townshend Country Store that was along our route. We were delighted. Would go back in a heartbeat.
Nice video. We rescued 4 V’s over 20 years .... yay Monty.
''i think eveything have a shelf life!!'' hahahah...nice!!!
Great episode Jennifer is a great person she seems fun to be around LOVE the dog hope you can get back together real soon Thumbs up 👍
Thank you so much, Mr! :)
Very cool episode!
Смотрю с удовольствием Ваши видео. Прекрасны виды и шикарные попутчики. Удачи!!!!!!!
Man Jen likes to cook! everything looks so good.
I just found this channel. Are these guys a couple? I don't see her in any of the newer videos.
Yum ! What a big chicken breast !! So glad she’s not vegetarian , and it’s cute how she’s says ‘We’ all the time
I got up this morning, SOOOO excited to watch this episode, and here I find myself, inspired and excited after watching!! :D
This is what I took away from the episode:
1. Monty is adorable and I want to pet him.
2. Jennifer is beautiful and I'm looking forward to meeting her!
3. The "why don't you sit on the toilet" had me dying when Jennifer started laughing.
4. The pickle plate transfer was hysterically funny and I don't know why!
5. This video was awesome and you have nothing to apologize for! Each video gets better and better!
6. 6/6 Overlanders would recommend this video.
1. Yes.
2. *squirts you with garden hose*
3. That toilet is a freakin' Swiss Army knife. Extremely underrated kit.
4. Pickles are gross.
5. Thank you!
6. Okay.
Well said. I’m one of the 6.
firstly I'm 66 so this is going back some time... the pickle incident reminded me of my dad and mom... my dad would put his chicken bones on the side of my mom's plate. My mom one day said " we've been married 55 years and you always put your chicken bones on my plate,,, why on earth do you do that? My dad said with no expression at all and plain straight face... " Well, I don' want them on my plate!" I couldn't stop laughing... I think they were in their '70s at the time... Love the episode... it looks like you two get along great together
I feel better now, even Jen got your channel name wrong :-) btw Chris, as the saying goes 'If she's a Jeeper, she's a keeper' ;-)
"why don't you sit on the toilet" such a gentleman Chris lol
Great video Chris!
Thank you! :)
Your looking younger with that hair cut, Your Lady looks to have been in some sport or Yoga. Cheers to you and yours + the PuP Joseph venice Fl.
Great episode! Looking forward to seeing more of the new “group”!
Thanks! We might be sporadic at first, as we're still strategizing and tending to our individual ends. However, we expect to sync up much more frequently as time goes on! :)
@@venture4wd What every happen to Jennifer? Do you still keep in touch?
I am watching ur old videos. Where did Jenn go. She was kinda cool. U looked really happy
Not too far from PA down here in DE, Lums Pond state park campground is open year round and this time of year it's a ghost town. Full hook ups and brand new shower and bathroom facilities and you pretty much have the entire park, which sits on a huge lake, to yourself.
Lums Pond, eh? Good intel! I haven't hit DE yet. Thank you!
About time Chris ate some greens.
Found your channel... I like this style of video as it is real, so many leave out some of the uncomfortable type situations and sanitize every bit of the experience. I think that can mislead a person into thinking. Oh.. I am all in and the come to find out.. all in and not digging it. Nice job and I will keep watching.
I have a motto when it comes to my work: "Authenticity is paramount." I promise to always be forthcoming and real, no matter where this road takes me. Thank you so much, and thanks for following along!
Wow, her website is great. Super photography!
Seems like a cool lady.
Actually, you seemed much more natural, unscripted. I think it doesn't really matter where you are as long as it adds to the story.
Thank you so much for the kind words Tim! Not sure I'm all that cool - think that's just Chris's excellent editing skills! Monty on the other hand is absolutely cool! Thank you for watching! Was the best week. Sad I have to "ride the desk" for a week before we can re-connect with Chris for more learning and exploring.
Thanks, Tim! Jenn is extraordinarily talented, in every regard. She inspires me, and I hope I can convey that through our videos! :)
What a wonderful birthday surprise. I was touch along with you my own family doesn't gift me like that!
This is pretty awesome. may be added to my bucket list. I didn't know there was a Grafton VT. great name ;)
Thanks! Grafton is a little piece of heaven on Earth. It's like you're stepping into a postcard. On top of that, it's surrounded by some fantastic Class IV primitive roads. I love Vermont.
Great episode.
Thank you!
Great Episode Chris!! You both looked so happy traveling together, hope you two are able to meet up again soon. Can't wait to try the new skottle recipes. Thanks Jennifer!! Thanks for sharing!!
Thank you Tim! We had a wonderful week, wonky weather and all. Counting down the days till we can get back after it as a little pack of three. Monty is going stir-crazy already!
Thanks Tim! We had an amazing time, and we can't wait to reconnect! Jenn is SO much more skilled with the skottle than I can ever hope to be. Seriously. Last week, I used it to reheat Pizza Hut. How sad is that?
It's all about surrounding yourself with great people and I think you both are great. Are you planning on coming through the Southwest this Year? Have fun, be safe and thanks for taking us along.
Gave her that vitamin D for 4hrs in the Jeep apparently. Haha. Loved this episode.
FInally got some greens in you! ;)
Enjoyed the vid.
Thank you!
Fun video!
Thanks, Jerry! Also, commenter Tom O'Connor wants a Skottle. :)
You look great brother!
Thanks, but I don't look as good as you, Marco. ;)
She is fucking delightful
Oh my you MUST be talking about Monty! I'm a complete dork! LOL
Yeah. You must be talking about Monty. :|
Great video. I definitely called it in the last video...that he was headed to see a woman. Saw the glint in his eye.
Glad you dug the video! So many people were like, "Chris. WHY do you keep going TOWARD colder weather?!" Truth is, I'd endure much colder if it meant spending time with her. (yeah, I'm pretty far gone)
venture4wd I hear ya brother. I’d drive across the country for the right person!
If you guys get together in the future, would love to see you both do overlanding on a Bimobil EX 480
Mercedes Atego 4x4. That wpould be SOOOOO BADAAAASSSS!
Okay, I just Googled Bimobil EX 480 Mercedes Atego 4x4. LOVE IT. We would roll like that in a heartbeat!
WOW! Yes please! Monty would LOVE THAT!
That looks like fun
Can’t wait to see what kind of van you guys buy. 😉
(...4x4 sportsmobile day dreaming...)
Jennifer Langille Me too, me too.
Whatever it is, it's going to have an air-brushed mural of a wizard fighting a dragon on its side. That would be so badass.
venture4wd YESSSSSSS!!!!!!
Hello. Can you tell me which company the LP gas frying pan you see in the video is from?
Someone is in love 🤣🤣🤣
Guilty as charged.
@@venture4wd any plans for more ad-venture-s together again in the future... heh.... heh... heh?
Love Jen's in-truck sleeping setup! Also, you guys are always welcome to camp at VO HQ when you are in VT.
Thanks, Peter! Rest-assured, I've been keeping VO HQ in mind. If you see a big orange Jeep parked next to your pool, please hold your fire.
great video!!
Thank you!
she's making you eat your veggies ... lol NO GRILLED CHEESE FOR YOU!!
I'm surprised you aren't setting up your awning room to do the cooking in there, especially if you are staying a day or two at a location.
This past trek, with the exception of Grafton where we had access to a great many amenities due to my work with the Inn there, only stayed in each location for the night and would have been little too much set-up/breakdown... BUT... now you planted the seed in my head! I'll be like, "Hun... about that awning room..." ;)
Trust me, the thought occurred to me. We were dealing with A LOT of ice and snow. I love my ARB awning, but torrential rain can kill it if you're not careful, so it doesn't stand a chance in snow! I would've love to put it out though, and I certainly won't hesitate if the weather suits!
On one of your other vids I saw PA plate on your rig. What part of PA you from?
I am from... well... most recently, I've lived in Lancaster. My storage unit is in Lancaster. My parents live in Pottstown, which is kind of near Philly, and I use their driveway, and their shower a lot.
DO YOU HAVE A WIND SCREEN FOR YOUR SKOTTLE ? DID YOU BUY ONE OR DID YOU MAKE YOUR OWN ? IF YOU BOUGHT ONE MAY I ASK WHERE & WHO BY ?
I like this RUclips logg, best.
Thanks Jan!
I love your vlog. When are you going to get back to the Goose Gear install? I have some of their gear coming and I want to see your install so I won't make any of the same mistakes. :-)
Thanks, Barbara! I am working on Goose Gear right now. I hope to have it installed by the end of the week. This week's episode should be about the Goose Gear setup pretty much entirely. :)
You 3 are awesome. That’s all.
You all make a great couple!!!! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks Alex! Jenn and Monty are absolutely awesome. I'm okay. ;)
I have asked this question to a few other overlanders on RUclips . But I am wondering what time of jobs you guys have to allow you to take these long trips away from home and work? This is something I would really like to get into after the service. Thanks! Love the videos
Hey Jarrett! When I first set off, I supported myself by doing web development. However, a year later, I am now a full-time content producer. My lifestyle, and this video series is my full-time job. It's not quite as glamorous as it sounds. I once ate someone's discarded cheese nachos that I found in a public park, and they were even wet from being hit by a nearby sprinkler. That being said, it can be done. You just have to go after it! Thank you for following along, and for your service! :)
oh wow! You really do have a dream job. I will take all that into consideration. Thanks again and of course!!
I'm newly all in on the road, though been self-employed full-time as a professional photographer for nearly a decade and use to working remotely/running a small business. I second Chris, it sounds far more "romantic" than it is most days. It's all a balance of how uncomfortable one is willing to be, to live what feels to them to be an authentic life. One also lets go of and gives up "stuff". Though you sorta leave it behind to make room for life experiences. It's also fair to note, for every long trip there tends to be a string of shorter ventures for attending to maintenance on the Jeep, or tending to business matters which require less time off-grid on an "adventure" and more time than we like "plugged-in" working with clients, etc. Jobs which lend well to this lifestyle tend to be consulting of some sort, online teaching, web-related, writing, graphic design, videography, photography, financial advisors, etc. Now with all that, bare in mind quite a few folks on RUclips have full-time jobs, overlanding on the weekends, and their longer trips using vacation time, etc. Cheers!
2 jeeps are better than 1..
What a sweet girl
Appears the skottle badly needs a larger flame ring/burner for a lot of items.....
Folks, could our boy from Lancaster, PA be falling in love?? What do you all think? Forget about the dog being energetic, I haven’t seen Chris so energetic since he got that pop-up tent. Could Chris and Jennifer hit it off into a romantic relationship? Did you see the heart shaped sliced carrots? 😊 I’m mean the woman can cook. They make a good couple. Let’s see what develops.
To be continued... *cue music* ;)
lol - Too late. :(
You started off pretty close to where I grew up in Ludlow/Tyson, VT.
I love Vermont, RWK. Love it!
helo from norway i like your videos :) i m harry
Great video Where do I get one of those scottles
I'm not sure on retailers but here's their website: tembotusk.com That was my first experience with the nifty contraption, was a treat to cook on. Already thinking up ideas for our next venture.
tembotusk.com/
Thanks! Glad you dig the video AND the skottle! We had so much fun with it this past week. In fact, it's still in my Jeep covered in eggs and bacon, because it was 7 degrees out and I was too lazy to wipe it off. :(
I do hope you and your gf can meet up with Jenn and Monty again, i did hear from Jenn by email not too long back as like most viewers here wanted to say how inspirational and awesome she is given what shes been through in her life, anyway hope she is doing well during this pandemic situation as its been a rough time for everyone.
You need the Trailgater Table from Outback Adventures. It will speed your food prep and save your back.
A companion cool
How i can by this amazing Gas cooker and how it named? Thanks
"Tembo Tusk Skottle"
@@solooverland3666 Thanks!
Guys we’re you buying discada?
What toilet is that ?
Now I see Vermont plates, I'm confused....
Ha ha, well I am a Vermont resident and Chris (venture4wd) is a PA resident but we met up to do some photographer/video work in the darling town of Grafton, VT - which I can not recommend highly enough!
Yeah, It took me a while to figure this out.... Grafton VT. my namesake!
Nice to see you interact with Jen.
Although I like your solo videos, it’s Interesting to see testosterone and estrogen roughing it out. Fantástico
how u guys make money for gas and everything ?
👍👍🇨🇦
Chris you found yourself a keeper. Now do something about it.
would like to see a video on that sleeping platform
I'll get Chris on that next time we connect. It's been my saving grace and was
TY!
I'm on it!
she looks like Julia Roberts
Chris you need a dog
That lady annoys me for some reason. Seems nice but ...