Of the great musicians who got together for Kind of Blue, John Coltrane died at 40, Cannonball Adderley died at 47, Paul Chambers died at 33, Bill Evans died at 51. Miles Davis lived to be 65, which was an eternity among his contemporaries. Evans said that by 1970 he was shooting up every 45 minutes.
Not enough people are honest about drugs... originally drugs were criminalized because there were a lot of prohibition cops out of jobs when prohibition was repealed, plus the people who did use were mostly minorities so it helped the racists deny them rights and gave the racists power.
I appreciate Bartz’ candor and honesty. Fascinating observation about how drugs enabled a musician to be part of the ‘in crowd’. For a young musician that must be so seductive.
What I marvel at is how musicians are able to improvise in the moment. How does the brain work in an environment where you have 4 or 5 other musicians all playing, bass lines and drums, all keeping time different time signatures and yet everyone keeps the threads of the piece together. That is what goes thru my mind when I watch and listen. They are in a completely different realm of reality from the rest of us for sure.
Susan Cain practice practice practice! That’s how they do it, conscious practice to build familiarity which then becomes fluency. For example, it took many months for John Coltrane to prepare Giant Steps, so there is a degree of preparation before improvisation.
It is awesome to hear someone express appreciation for this aspect of jazz, or any other genre for that matter. Live music isn't all I listen to, but its easily the majority. I need to hear musicians being spontaneously creative in improvisational settings. As far as studio recordings go though, there is still a universe of old classic jazz that I haven't heard yet, and I love all that as well. But improvisation is for me the real soul of music, cant live without it.
there is no such thing as musicians playing together in disparate time signatures. I think you are referring to variance in rhythm. Jazz musicians tend to syncopate in disparate ways during improvisation as a way to compliment each other and fill space. However I share in your sentiment
I saw him quite a few times, “back in the day”....along with other Baltimore club regulars, like Tim Eyermann, Greg Hatza & Moon August, Ethel Ennis, O’Donel Levy, and a host of others. Baltimore was a great jazz town in the late ‘70’s thru the ‘80’s. Miss those days, for sure.
@06.03 He is so true in saying u can get to that point through meditation . I feel very lucky to be a musician born in India and i was taught meditation when my teenage started. Its such great tool i have to reach that pure space of creativity inside me. Lovely interview!
Me too! I've been meditating for over 40 years. It is the only natural and pure method to tap into the deep recesses of the mind to hear music and be creative. Addictive drugs are artificial and destructive. Addictive drugs are for the masses (the asses) who attempt to escape reality.
I really don't understand what is it to be dependent on drugs to create, so I thank you for illustrating these aspects of your journey Gary Bartz. It is rare to hear someone speak constructively about the beneficial and transferable lessons from drug use. I don't smoke cigarettes, yet can appreciate the habit of taking short breaks to alter my mood by going outside into the fresh air to consciously breath fully and relaxed minus the cancer sticks; ie. meditation, making time to receive more oxygen and taking the time to utilize not lacking anything.
when he says you got to go out and seek and buy it, your in constant anxiety. its the fact that it is illegal is that is the problem. many studies, and programs in several countries have proven that medical maintenance, legal manufacture with safety oversight of the content of the drug, and a cheaper price than the street demands, allows addicts to decrease and its easier to quit, or even if their maintained even on heroin, they can lead productive and contributive lives again and the violence drops because their is no killing for market share by the drug gangs, the drug war punishes the users and addicts and the poor, and rewards the cartels, the money laundering banks, the hypocritical politicians fear mongering, lawyers, the private prisons, the police, the rehab industry, etc. legalize it and put these mofos out of business.
thanks slimedog and Andrés Soto for giving me thumbs up. please feel free to add me to your friends list or google or youtube "circles" or whatever its called. peace, joy and love. "love heals all". but since we live in this human body we need to have our leaders moderate their hypocritical drug policies and know that an addict is much better off, and the world is better off with tolerance and medically controlled addiction maintenance. TAKE THE DRUGS OUT OF THUGS AND VESTED INTERESTS HANDS AND WE WILL HAVE PEACE. STOP WAR ON DRUGS, STOP THE WAR ON PAIN AND ANXIETY DOCTORS!!!!
Ymous Anon It really is just ridiculous now. It's been established for years that the war on drugs is a failure, yet weed is still illegal in most parts of the world. Apparently Spain has made every drug legal a few years ago and have had great results. I don't drink as it makes me violently ill from small amounts, so if I go out to a club I'll want to be on a stimulant of some kind as it makes me really happy and social while still very much in control, unlike alcohol. I pretty much wont go out otherwise or will end up having a shitty time, as tends to happen with sober people at clubs. I would be deemed a criminal or even a druggy for choosing to take a pill to loosen up as opposed to drinking 8 beers. Yet if I chose to take the route of getting shitfaced drunk until I'm stumbling around, being obnoxious and spewing on the floor, then that's perfectly ok. It's a load of shit.
PanasonicTooth exactly my friend. read recently several new studies and the conclusion is that alcohol is the worst drug and meth a close second, alcohol causes depression, causes more people to become violent, cause more deaths than any other drug when under the influence. but would i say prohibit alcohol. no then you would relegate it to the underground market and violence would surround the alcohol business like the prohibition in the 1920's. Here's a great organization in the US: LEAP meaning Law Enforcement Against Prohibition(of drugs, even want heroin to be legalized under medical supervision. these guys and gals are angels, from Judges to beat cops. see link below: www.leap.cc/
This post is long. Just an FYI, but it's relevant from Jazz-Rock drummer on topic. You know, in the early 50's, weed was known to be associated with Jazz musicians, almost associated exclusively. In the NE, from Chi-town to NY, the club-life-work made harder drugs available, even used for payment for guys deep into H. Some of the greats were addicts, and the best way to tell who WAS and who was NOT? They ran hot & cold with their performances. One show be on fire, and the next, not very inspirational, tired, and some sloppy play. Have read that many sessions were 86'ed due to players too high to record. Sometimes, they would record warm-up stuff and it would be used. But, Art Blakey and Gene Krupa were known to use mollies (Dex) and Heroin. That's what they did, free form Jazz, and it opened up mental pathways that, much like deep meditation, allowed the music to be heard clearly, more definition when high, and like Bartz says, "It slowed down the action, you could see the music, and you hear the music, and then you can do all this NOT doing the drugs,so your mind will remember with more time to 'feel' what to play." It's no different today. If anyone uses meds, drugs, whatever and listens to music and the medication makes the music sound BETTER ?!? That's what they mean, it sounded better and they also FELT better, and the result was some killer recordings and shows - most of the time. But, it's well known that guys who did one type of drug, it meant that all the users in a band used the same drug (i.e. H + speed didn't mix in playing styles, time, etc). So, amped up guys tended to play accordingly and mellow-type guys played-used the same and groove was united. You can tell just by listening to any Jazz player from that time period especially, since there wasn't all the tools to fix the mix, but there were tools to fix the band. The regular users got used to their DOC, and did great - but were known to miss gigs, rehearsals, and sessions. Too sick to play. I once saw the Stan Kenton Band and got a chance to speak to the drummer at the time and he told me some wild stuff as he was almost asleep sitting on his stool, drifting. At the time (college), I thought he was tired - in retrospect, his long sleeve sweater (it was HOT in there) makes sense. He mumbled something about "any cool places around here, to - hey you guys cool, you know what I mean?" Yeah, I do now. Some of the Tonight Show guys (no names) were doing something - don't know what, but I didn't give a damn. Clark Terry & Ed Shaughnessy both were sober and fantastic! They performed great at our show but, it WAS weird when others asked for assistance in helping them get ______. And, showing up to the show VERY stoned. But, hey, not throwing shadow or criticism at all. We all are visitors to that rodeo. Or have starred in our own version of this topic. I think the deal is this: Some musicians DRINK to calm nerves and in the brain, it lowers inhibitions, allowing people to 'try out' things on the fly, almost like a challenge, and it makes us better, but TOO much of anything, you won't think fast enough to play well. So there is that small area of 'just right' where a cat can play anything and play it extraordinarily well! But, I'm not advocating this - no - because look how many have DIED!??! Some guys, they didn't find their 'wake-up' fix, and had to miss sessions. And, ppl know - they know who is needing - detoxing, and it was a cycle that labels, other musicians, producers had to work around. I believe for all the music it created as 'inventive and free-form', the trade-off of ruination of great musicians, the loss of careers, and death from overdose was not worth it, in finality. Any needless death from trying to become 'sensational' is a waste. A delicate balance, and a road that you tread on with a keen knowledge of the risks, the right amount for you, knowing the feeling well thru practice so you are not surprised by the feelings of relaxation of alcohol or the empowerment of the feeling of 'owning your instrument? This is VITAL. At a BIG show in college, two of our Lab band members thought it would be cool to drop LSD before a show. Uh, I can tell you this - NEVER DO THIS! as it was NOT COOL! The result was simply awful for everyone - they were impaired beyond words. And, I know they were terribly sorry for doing it. It caught them off-guard. Ruined the show. We cut it short, but played on without them as they were told in front of the audience by the Director - "Guys? Just stand there, put your horns down, and watch your band mates." Public humiliation. Then, he apologized to the audience and said we would try and get thru the program. But, it has happened to many. Hendrix was hot-cold at times. Keith Moon was well-known to flake out, fall-out after one song, and they got someone from the audience to come up and play drums. The Doors, Jim Morrison, missed gigs passed out behind stage - and Amy Winehouse - God, what a tragic, open to the public, Circus freak show, on display for all the world to see. Her demise unfolding right before our eyes - and no one intervened. Not even her Parents. It was painfully clear she was going to DIE! Nothing, no one could save her from her enabling friend. Just like Gary talks about the 'Jazz drug circles' that existed. THAT is what can happen! Don't be any of these guys. I know from experience. There hasn't been a crisis for me, like that, since I was maybe 19, 20 yrs old. Someone (roadie) put something in my water-holder and it had me playing so fast, it was crazy. Too much. I hated what happened to me for two long days! So, like the Civil War, or anything that HAPPENED in history, this too did happen in the Jazz world and it had casualties. Both life-death and career-ending. You might luck out and go on and be like the Pro Athletes using PED's to be BETTER - then again, you may get dropped from 'the band', fired for your 'drug-influenced playing' - or, you may die. But, to me? An even worse scenario is medications that you HAVE to take for chronic pain, they are RX, all because of something you have, an illness, a disease or ailment that causes the chronic pain - RX meds can alter your progress as a player, not allowing you to become even better, but more like how you played once you had to start treatment. IF it's not necessary for a healthy person (or just an addiction- habit) the euphoria addicts go downhill on meds and, in most cases, it hurts, or ruins, their career. Now labeled a 'risk', and not a 'ranked' player. It's a tough place to be in even if you MUST do treatment for chronic pain in order to play. For those who have a REAL issue, treatment is controlled and helps & aids in playing. So, there were MANY more social, economic, racial, stereotyped reasons for the use of drugs by all these top Artists in Jazz music, and even today with ANY genre of music, drugs are there. The passing of PRINCE - a truly, 100% GIFTED Artist, one of the Greats - to die from "Too Much." He knew, but hid it well, but he was ill. And, the tragedy? He could have lived. Don't let this be you. My advice to anyone (that doesn't have to take meds for health reasons), IF you get something out of playing on weed, booze, or any other stuff? Do so when you practice and record yourself. If you are one that picks up different things while stoned, as an example? OK, but do it when you practice. And, remember - if it can happen to Prince or Whitney or (name one - the list is awfully long)? It CAN happen to you, just takes one slip-up with your reasoning, celebrating with the band, feeling good, and you just forget what you have done or mixed benzos with alcohol (a sure recipe for death) or dosed and lost track? You are in trouble, and then, ppl start to notice you fade. You think "how many of those did I take tonight"? Or, you don't think at this point - at all. Too Late. 911. They did not have rescue aids like Naloxone back then, and even today, carrying Naloxone signals 'drug user-abuser'. This is long - sorry. But, there is nothing cool or hip or helping you make the scene, or copying your idol (who was an addict and died). You try crack, H, or speed at a gig, but you could be SAFER with the only safe thing = Cannabis. Alcohol is one of the worst drugs you can intake. And, it NEVER should be mixed with ANY med that can get you high. Even with MJ, make sure you aren't too faded to perform, or drive home - OR ruin a session. Just think about the trade-off and what you are doing. KNOW ahead of time what a substance does to you, your thinking, your playing, etc. And, it only takes a few times before you become known as a "Risk" player for other bands, sessions, etc - it will cost you money, no matter how good you are. True words in this video, but you clearly see how he decided it was worth the risk to join the pack, get in deep with the addiction, and roll the dice. Just be careful, ok? Use your head and again, I am not anti 'anything' or 'anti-responsible, recreational use' here - NO - I am just saying there are a TON of issues in Pandora's Box of smoke & poppy & psychotropic relaxation that allow musicians to 'let go'. And, some of these can bite you - and bite you hard! Some of them are poisonous venom used wrongly. If you want to experiment? Read, learn, and study-up on what you are going to do. There is plenty of online INFO that will not only inform you, but in many cases, will SAVE your life. Truth. So, Peace and practice your preferences - use your knowledge, be smart, and know yourself, as well as your personality traits, even your genetics. Allergy, tolerance, adverse reactions - and, get a physical with blood work to know how your engine is running and if anything is a danger to you - or if you are prone to certain chemicals, etc. Play on, and stay safe. If you are good? Then play - you will only get better. ~SC
He was hooked on fentanyl, which is basically heroin on a pill. As far as I know, he started taking painkillers as early as the late 80s, and that made him addicted to opioids. Keep in mind he did bat shit crazy stuff on stage during the 80s. Look for videos of around 85 or something. The man would jump from a platform with heels on and dance immediately upon landing. It's quite unbelievable to see that footage. In the early 90s it was already common for him to walk with a cane. Pain in hips and knees. It's just he tried to hide it from people, including bandmates. He probably knew how much to use not to lose his mind on stage, he was very professional. Plus, I've heard he did coke in the 80s, which I don't find hard to believe given he worked like 18 hours a day
Well put my friend...you should reprint this great statement every where it fits on you tube...save a lot of guys! Peppers book did that for me!! Prince was a good friend...Had I known his problem a month sooner... could have saved him with medical weed . It became legal in Minnesota ...so I got it and threw my pills away !! It would have worked on him too!! Even though he hated smoking. I was the only one ever allowed to smoke in the room and he screamed about it and told me QUIT or die....still spooks me. He was so fun....bad loss.... NICE writing!!!Tom Hoskamer, a drummer...
@@user-zw7oe4jv3j you are so right. Many people don't realize how much stress the body endures when one is wearing stilettos all the time; jumping landing on hard surfaces and doing splits and spins. Sometimes he walked with a cane. His hips knees and ankles were fracturing.The man was an athlete in pain 24 hours a day. He did all that to entertain us.
I know many of the jazz greats had addictions same as the rockers. I was fortunate enough to talk music, life, and whatever with them between sets as a teenage musician and fan at the village gate and bottom line. Some would ask me if I had, some not. But all those cats, dizz, sonny rollins, stit,sun ra, etc and their side men were all wise, sincere, caring, musically encouraging, and beautiful souls. These were the Beethovens of their genre, writing their symphonies in real time on stage. Some were addicted yes, but we all have some ball and chain that we fight to get off, and keep off in our lives. They were no different. Peace.
As a jazz fan (sadly not a musician) I can relate to these guys. They practice a form of music that seeks a perfect connection between minds, to create astonishing and expressive group improvisations. They are almost exclusively intellectuals, albeit sometimes in an esoteric way, who think about things differently to most people. As a young man who's a fan of jazz now, in contemporary western society, I feel an oppressive weight almost every day when I hear bigoted ideas and backwards social attitudes. Imagine being these geniuses back when society was even less free and less tolerant. They just found the most controversial thing they could do together and obviously found some level of connection in it. I've never used heroin but I have had an addiction to low level opiate painkillers and it's like being one of a select few who've been let in on this great secret. The taboo and illegality of drugs compounds this effect. Just think, these emotionally expressive, intellectually driven and socially ahead of their time people are already disillusioned by the failings of their society. They feel trapped in a world where the average Joe just wouldn't understand their deepest personality. Then they find out the few people they share this bond with all do drugs and that the drugs are fun (to an extent/initially) so of course they all did it. It's like when I hear people talking about the Jeremy Kyle Show (British TV), rather than focusing on how the arrogant and hypocritical presenter pretends lie detector tests are real; essentially flipping a coin to decide whether he'll ruin a vulnerable person's life, they focus on benefits and drugs. It's the Victorian concept of the undeserving poor playing out in a society so saturated with nonsensical capitalist propaganda that people think the poor deserve what they have and the rich deserve theirs. One episode of The Jeremy Kyle Show is enough to make me want to put some Chet Baker on and shoot up just to dull the pain of being trapped in a society that can't see the wool being pulled over its eyes. Fuck.
***** No. When he was high he could still play-- if he managed to show up for gigs and stay awake through them. He was so good, he could still play even when he was high. He got that good by practicing-- a lot. Practicing a WHOLE lot. Practicing and working to develop his skill-- with a seriousness and intensity that he could never have mustered if he had been as far gone early in his life as he was later. It takes the hard work so that your fingers get to know the lay of the land so well that all you have to do is think music and they find it for you. When that preparation and inspiration meet in the same person, then we get great music. Where does that inspiration come from? Lots of it comes from that same working and practicing to nurture your craft; another lots of it comes from listening to what other people are doing and being alive to ideas in your world. And there certainly isn't much brain left over for thinking music if you have to be thinking which finger to move, pull the tongue in more or push it out more, bite down or loosen up, all that stuff.
I know I don't have to. I just want to. You know it, and so do I, and it can't be said too many times. World is full of people who are starting rather than mastering, and full of people itching to find that magic bullet, the secret potion. I've seen enough young people wreck themselves that way, and probably so have you. Play on, man. Add another chorus to the truth; why else are any of us still alive?
theRealPlaidRabbit all musicians are attracted to drugs not just jazz players. Jimi Hendrix used to snort heroin and id put him in the same category as Miles. Musicians want to feel something beyond the normal boring 9 to 5 blah blah that we're conditioned to do from day one. Music is a sensual experience, and so is drugs, they go hand in hand. Unfortunately neither music or drugs are things that the 9 to 5 world runs on, if that makes sense. There it's all about stepping on people to get somewhere, musicians usually hate that kind of world.
theRealPlaidRabbit musicians are artists and yes, artists are very different from most people, even though most people can appreciate art. Of course there isn't one kind of musician, because there's very deep and soulful music like jazz and then there's very shallow music like pop. But I'm mostly talking about the serious musicians like jazz artists.
I relate to Gary because I spent my childhood watching junkies nod out. Heroin addiction is big again. My childhood experience taught me to avoid it at all costs. That experience and choice to avoid saved my life.
so what ? legalizing heroin under medical supervision will lead to a great drop in lethal o.d. it's human nature that if you feel secure in this case where your next fix will be there you will feel less desperate, less anxious, and take less and easier to get clean. benzodiazepines like xanax cause many more deaths in cold turkey than in cold turkey from smack. the main good thing about legalization is it puts the competing cartels and drug gangs out of business and violence will plummet just as violence went way down after the lifting of alcohol prohibition.
I have a problem with your reasoning. So you are saying that if someone feels secure that they know they will get their next fix then they will tend to do less because of all the emotional motivations you listed? Seems like a big leap.
Miles said "Drugs do make you more creative." ... of course to a point, then hard drugs screw you. But as Bartz pointed out (5:40) when you stop you retain some of the positive aspects. Its left brain right brain, IMO. And of course there's a HUGE difference between psychedelics and "body" drugs. The other thing is certain drugs tend to appeal to certain people... some people don't like heroin, so they never get addicted. Musicians are curious people... they are often curious about drugs. Its a normal thing to want to transcend the ordinary if you are an artist.
YOU DON'T WANT NO PART OF THIS DEWEY COX... it slows everything down to the point at which you can see and hear everything, enhancing improvisational ability-IT'S A NIGHTMARE
I really love what this guy just said. He's absolutely correct in every way. Being a musician that has suffered with Heroin addiction myself. I would agree what he said about the only close to possible positive thing about it. He put it in a way That I think describes it best.
+rovingeye5 Glad you commented. In those times, there wasn't the info.To anyone suffering, please stand strong, watch Gabor Mate, look within your heart, make peace with yourself & all. Healing one & all.
Yeah or you could try the good old tried and trusted bash yourself with a brick on the back of your head technique. Does it for me every time and it's cheaper. I miss out on the high society and the in crowd though.
As an addict, talking about myself., my drug of choice fooled me for years. Close to 20 years sober, the reality scares me more now than before. The stuff will kill you. Thank God for recovery.
I fully appreciate how you just left it at 'drug of choice' without calling it out by name. Whatever that drug was, I'm sure it's popular enough. No need to give it any more attention than it already gets. Here's to another twenty years cleans. God speed.
@@dorengarcia7925 sounds like to me he's proving my point. he "lived long enough to quit" what are you talkin about? I don't need to be on drugs, ever having done drugs, or experience the lingering effects of having done so, in order to know what the desired outcome should be - To still be alive! My comprehension skills are pretty keen. What's your excuse?
You can gain presence and mindfulness through other means than drugs. Of course, in this western society, these skills are not taught in schools or even discussed at large in the populace, so for 30 something Jazz musicians of the time, there would be no way to introduce them to meditation, but if you are aware of meditation and how to do it, then you can experience anything that drugs have to offer without the risk of death or arrest.
Meditation doesn't get you in the same mood as Weed. It's cool and all but the chemistry in the herb is strong. Whoever thinks the mind can produce THC (Tetrahidrocannabinol) naturally is stupid. There is no other way to get the same effect.
Roberto Zarrabal except that it does. The brain naturally has Cannabinoid receptors and produces Anandamide which has a similar effect as THC. This was discovered back in 2009.
Problem with meditation is; it takes a looong time to get there, IF ever. The appeal of drugs is the instant effect, no discipline, no waiting, no ifs and maybes. But a hard price just around the corner for sure.
Bruce Caldwell I disagree. Drug prohibition doesn’t make it worse. From what I’m seeing, legalising makes it worse. I think false information about drugs being good for us makes it worse. It encourages people to use it. I believe that’s what happened years ago. People thought it made them more creative or better musicians. A lot died. Also, alcohol was an issue but I think a lot of it came from the pressure of music a life and not learning how to cope properly.
I am 65 and a music teacher. My own brother, was a physician, became addicted to anti depression medicine and eventually committed suicide, so addiction is not just a problem for musicians, but all people! I love all types of music. I understand the conditions that many great jazz musicians had to deal with, including racism, poverty, crummy conditions, criminals, who exploited them, along with club owners, promoters, etc. Many people have tendencies to overuse something that feels good, alleviates pain, physically, as well as emotionally, including drugs, sex, food, etc.These addictions also make them greedy, selfish and most likely difficult to deal with in any kind of relationship. The psychological, cultural & economic reasons for these addictions is a a topic that has been studied for many years and beyond the scope of my comments, as is the reason for the conditions in America for the arts. Unfortunately these addictions all have consequences, especially illegal substances, including jail sentences. Like Gary says, many young people get seduced by the false narrative of someone they admire. Belonging to an exclusive club of "heavy" musicians, being "hip", thinking they'll play better high, have more endurance, be more creative. How many nameless musicians fell by the wayside, with the thought that the drugs and not the studying, knowledge, the hard work & experience, of performing music, was the answer? How about using your mind to expose yourself to other arts, like literature, film, theater, painting, sculpture, for inspiration? Would not Charlie Parker been as great without drugs? Wasn't he remorseful, knowing that the imitation of his drug use had a negative effect on many of his admirers? I also agree drugs should be legalized, so that people who feel a need to use them don't have to go to the street corner, etc., take drug dealers off the street, make it safer in our neighborhoods and stop our country from spending countless money and manpower on policing it, including wars. I am glad Gary mentioned, in the end of his speech, that you might get to the same place that drugs brought him and others, through natural means, or if I may add on my own, just by toughing it out! Over the years, I have met many musicians, who I thought were incredibly talented, hard working and did not use drugs! While I love the music of Charlie Parker & John Coltrane, both heroin addicts, who died very young, I cant help but think of their potential, if they were not drug users ,and how much music they left unfinished, which would have further enhanced the enjoyment of their many followers! Finally, where is the glamour or intelligence, of sticking a needle in your arm, if you're a healthy person and artificially enhancing your awareness, when you might get to the same place through natural means, albeit, perhaps a longer route? Would ANYONE tell a child that drugs are a means to eventual success? I think it's pretty clear what the more responsible way is, especially if you want to have a life that is productive, lengthy, healthy, not out of control and not a "drag" to everyone around you! While I applaud the accomplishments of great musicians, I also admire every day people, who avoid drugs to deal with emotional pain or to seemingly enhance their perception, have normal lives, go to work everyday, have families, help their children, their community, friends, their parents, etc. Makes me think of the song, "It's Hip To Be Square"!
When you’re born with a great capacity, a great consciousness, you feel deeply the suffering of the humanity , you are drawn to things which can dull the senses, to reduce that great capacity for suffering
what we need to be looking at here is how Art Blakey and Philly Joe did so much smack and consistently nailed the time swing and phrasing every time they sat down on that drum throne ...proper old school shamans
A tenor sax player friend of mine worked in NYC and was good friends with Michael Brecker and I remember him telling me that Brecker used to tell him that playing after doing Heroin was the most amazing thing ever. Guys like that and Charlie Parker didn't need it for sure, but most likely propelled their playing into another level.
I always felt, in Birds case, (and other great artists) the responsibility of his genius was a heavy burden. Tbe drugs gave an escape he got no other way. At least at first. Once the drug takes over its the drug longing for itself.
This effectively answered some questions I've wondered about for years. A very good video. Ok sound was one channel down, but not a problem. I wondered if drugs like he was talking about enhanced a player's creative ability or hindered it.? I have heard Bill Evans when strung out on Heroin and losing the bar line of the rhythm solo playing and sounding confused. But also when high on drugs in a group playing magnificently. This video explains so well how the drug slows the player's clock-speed down so it's easier to make decisions without rushing or panicking. That is the first time I've really understood how the addiction sometimes enchances the artistic output. Amazing. I would never dare do that.
(hard) Drugs do no more than lock you out of your creative life...it seems like the gateway to creativity,thats the first hit. John Maclaughlin is a fine example of what not to do to "get there".
4 года назад+1
I'm primarily a jazz music fan now. But when I was a big time hard rock music fan, the one band that seemed to sound better when they were strung out on smack was the band Aerosmith. Albums like Draw The Line, Aerosmith Rocks, & A Night In The Ruts were among their best sounding albums. The crazy part being, that's when they were more strung out than straight minded. I used to jam with my friends in a studio. I'd play bass guitar. Sure, we partied. But the furthest we went was hard liquor and marijuana. And that was always when we'd be away from the music. Everyone agreed to be sober & never getting high when spending time focusing on the music. It worked out well for us. That's going back to the 80s & 90s. What happened to the band? I got married and started focusing on starting a family. Two different lifestyles didn't pan out. I miss those days, And I'll always treasure them.
My father was a jazz guitarist in Detroit Michigan. Married at three kids worked at the post office. A great band got plenty of work around the Detroit area. Lot of top Jazz fans wanted him to travel with them. But he didn't want to leave the family. And the band that he was in I knew there were about three of them that were on heroin. I would hear my mom and dad at night talkin about them. Sometimes they wouldn't make band practice or show up for Gig because they were heroin addicts
This may answer, or may not answer, a question I have had with myself about about my appreciation of young trumpet players like Doram and Morgan who were just a few years older than me. The music in their young careers was full of fire and vigor and unpredictability, then in just a few years the muse was diminished and even lost. The most notable player was Freddie Hubbard who when he started with Blakey was as amazing as the others. My favorite was his solo in "Stolen Moments", not with Blakey but during that time period. Then he went on his own, had a long successful career, however his music did not appeal to me. It lacked something. I could not figure why it had lost something - at least to me. I never considered heroin, where to have a long career you must quit the stuff or you wind up dead.
Read Stan Getz book. It's indicative of why jazz musicians did drugs back then. I can only imagine doing multiple shows a day for a week, the whole year. Being some label's meal ticket. And dealing with a cut throat industry alot of it by your friends. Broken homes, broken marriages. No wonder heroin and coke were so attractive then.
No joke. And if you were the bandleader, you were kind of responsible for everybody's livelihood in the band. You would have to be constantly hustling. Trying to line up gigs, tours, recording sessions so everyone could feed their families and continue to work with you. Another bandleader would poach your guys in a hot minute! Like you said, cutthroat. The pressure would've been incredible.
Very important I think, that opiate high give them a connection to the music, that once experienced they don’t lose. But chasing it with subsequent usage is the trap. Better to find it again, via meditation, relaxation.
It's probably the best combo as far as temptation goes: emotionally intense people, plus fame and lots of others doing drugs, plus pressure to be 'loose' to perform or create... Gees.
That’s interesting what he said about it slowing everything down. I’d imagine there’s a trick to that as well. Watched an interview with Joe Strummer of The Clash not long ago and he was asked about drummer Topper Headon leaving the band. Joe explained that he and Topper were the two that locked down the music and that started slipping away when heroine entered Toppers life. Not the right drug for drummers, said Joe.
Unfortunately it was prevalent in a lot of musicians and singers. It still is today maybe not as quite as many but the use of drugs and alcohol is thick in the entertainment realm and regular society. You can only pray.
Very curious on what his approach would be to seeing music, slowing it down and being able to make those decisions through mediation rather than drugs. It seems like one of those things where you can only describe it so much, you’ll never learn more than you would from experiencing it. I doubt I’d ever touch the stuff, so getting to that point seems like it would be an interesting, lifelong path. I also found this video from a list of jazz musicians who were known users. Honestly, it’s disappointing, heartbreaking, and harbors mixed emotions for me to see so many of my heroes on the list that I had no clue were users (biggest one being Bud Powell) but Gary does great job here explaining that it was simply just a different time back then. I wonder if that’s part of the reason why modern jazz is so different now…
Ken Burns "Jazz" put a lot of names out there Blakey, Gerry Mulligan, Fats Navaro, Coltrane, and Miles, for example. "Chasing The Train" said Philly Jo Jones was like the "Pied Piper" of the stuff. But the beast was Parker. He was THE poster child. Jackie McLean said essentially Parker was great, he used the stuff... 1 + 1 is 2.
Heroin is a very bad thing but this was the clearest explanation of the "positive" effect of heroin on all of those legendary jazz musicians. This interview gave phenomenal insight that a lot of people will never get to experience.
My brother has been in jazz for about 55 years, and he has been offered drugs many times. Basically, players take it because they're shy, don't feel comfortable in front of crowds, think it helps their playing, etc.. Unfortunately it doesn't help in the long run, and we've lost many talented players too soon. I am like Rafa G. below---I feed off of jazz music instead.
I also unfortunately was on H when i first was introduced to jazz. It’s mostly thc users I’m running into in the jazz world nowadays. Weird thing is, the music wouldn’t be the same without the influence of drugs . Jazz might not even exist if it wasn’t for the smacked up musiciiao
I was once a heroin addict. I was well known among my clique of drug users for a strict adherence to having a wake up shot. Too many druggies have zero self control. . Nothing beats getting up in the morning, getting high, drinking coffee and reading the newspaper lol.
One thing Gary is wrong about is there are no former drug addicts. If you quit, it means you've learned not to us those, but still still drug addict for rest of life.
You can also have your cake and eat it too. I used to have a $320 a day heroin habit years ago, then i took a break for financial reasons and was sick of being a junkie and being sick all the time and needing it to do anything. After a month break a started using again but only 3-4 times a week and never more than 2 days in a row and only $40-$60 a day on the days I use. I’ve been doing this for years now and I never get sick or go through withdrawal anymore in all that time, I’m free to travel, to on vacations, live a normal happy healthy life. I work out, have a great career doing what I love, in a loving relationship. And anyone can do this, it just takes will power. I look at it as a treat now not a lifestyle and I do it cause I enjoy because I want to not cause I need to ;)
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Of the great musicians who got together for Kind of Blue, John Coltrane died at 40, Cannonball Adderley died at 47, Paul Chambers died at 33, Bill Evans died at 51. Miles Davis lived to be 65, which was an eternity among his contemporaries. Evans said that by 1970 he was shooting up every 45 minutes.
People being honest like this helped me through dark times
Not enough people are honest about drugs... originally drugs were criminalized because there were a lot of prohibition cops out of jobs when prohibition was repealed, plus the people who did use were mostly minorities so it helped the racists deny them rights and gave the racists power.
I appreciate Bartz’ candor and honesty. Fascinating observation about how drugs enabled a musician to be part of the ‘in crowd’. For a young musician that must be so seductive.
Art Blakey is a common denominator in a lot stories about how guys got hooked on heroin.
Tim Grisham damn. Art and the heroin messengers. For some reason I had no idea.
I knew this famous musician from that era and he was real blunt_ he said Art turned just about everyone who played in his band into a junkie.
Having been around enough drummers, it makes sense to me.
Best drummer of all time in my opinion
Blakey was the Johnny Appleseed of doojie - he turned a lot of people onto the stuff. Just like Keith Richards did.
I am Heroin, destroyer of worlds.
Dr Why That’s why I hate to see ppl glorifying Frank Lucas and those kinda guys
I'm saving heroin for my deathbed.
Gonna go out with a smile.
When he said it slows everything down that really hit home. Its absolutely true. But like they say time flies when your having fun
It slows YOU down, things go by that you miss but your perception is you're catching everything. That it slows everything down is a misperception.
@@if6was929 That's not the way it works man. Certain drugs undoubtedly enhances creativity in some people for sure.
What I marvel at is how musicians are able to improvise in the moment. How does the brain work in an environment where you have 4 or 5 other musicians all playing, bass lines and drums, all keeping time different time signatures and yet everyone keeps the threads of the piece together. That is what goes thru my mind when I watch and listen. They are in a completely different realm of reality from the rest of us for sure.
Susan Cain practice practice practice! That’s how they do it, conscious practice to build familiarity which then becomes fluency. For example, it took many months for John Coltrane to prepare Giant Steps, so there is a degree of preparation before improvisation.
It is awesome to hear someone express appreciation for this aspect of jazz, or any other genre for that matter. Live music isn't all I listen to, but its easily the majority. I need to hear musicians being spontaneously creative in improvisational settings. As far as studio recordings go though, there is still a universe of old classic jazz that I haven't heard yet, and I love all that as well. But improvisation is for me the real soul of music, cant live without it.
there is no such thing as musicians playing together in disparate time signatures. I think you are referring to variance in rhythm. Jazz musicians tend to syncopate in disparate ways during improvisation as a way to compliment each other and fill space. However I share in your sentiment
Count.
Interesting, articulate man and a fine musician. Nice revealing interview.
Gary Bartz! The “JuJu” man!! One of the best things evaa to come out of Baltimore!
I saw him quite a few times, “back in the day”....along with other Baltimore club regulars, like Tim Eyermann, Greg Hatza & Moon August, Ethel Ennis, O’Donel Levy, and a host of others. Baltimore was a great jazz town in the late ‘70’s thru the ‘80’s. Miss those days, for sure.
Thank you for posting that. I had a very different sense of Gary Bartz as a man and I'm gratified to see that he's such a thoughtful individual.
@06.03 He is so true in saying u can get to that point through meditation . I feel very lucky to be a musician born in India and i was taught meditation when my teenage started. Its such great tool i have to reach that pure space of creativity inside me. Lovely interview!
Me too! I've been meditating for over 40 years. It is the only natural and pure method to tap into the deep recesses of the mind to hear music and be creative. Addictive drugs are artificial and destructive. Addictive drugs are for the masses (the asses) who attempt to escape reality.
@@Humanity2102 Share your meditation routine.
@
Sit down and do it
Celestial Blues!!! Loved that song thx Mr Bartz!!!!
I really don't understand what is it to be dependent on drugs to create, so I thank you for illustrating these aspects of your journey Gary Bartz. It is rare to hear someone speak constructively about the beneficial and transferable lessons from drug use. I don't smoke cigarettes, yet can appreciate the habit of taking short breaks to alter my mood by going outside into the fresh air to consciously breath fully and relaxed minus the cancer sticks; ie. meditation, making time to receive more oxygen and taking the time to utilize not lacking anything.
what a great interview clip. Gary bartz is great.
when he says you got to go out and seek and buy it, your in constant anxiety. its the fact that it is illegal is that is the problem. many studies, and programs in several countries have proven that medical maintenance, legal manufacture with safety oversight of the content of the drug, and a cheaper price than the street demands, allows addicts to decrease and its easier to quit, or even if their maintained even on heroin, they can lead productive and contributive lives again and the violence drops because their is no killing for market share by the drug gangs, the drug war punishes the users and addicts and the poor, and rewards the cartels, the money laundering banks, the hypocritical politicians fear mongering, lawyers, the private prisons, the police, the rehab industry, etc. legalize it and put these mofos out of business.
thanks slimedog and Andrés Soto for giving me thumbs up. please feel free to add me to your friends list or google or youtube "circles" or whatever its called. peace, joy and love. "love heals all". but since we live in this human body we need to have our leaders moderate their hypocritical drug policies and know that an addict is much better off, and the world is better off with tolerance and medically controlled addiction maintenance. TAKE THE DRUGS OUT OF THUGS AND VESTED INTERESTS HANDS AND WE WILL HAVE PEACE. STOP WAR ON DRUGS, STOP THE WAR ON PAIN AND ANXIETY DOCTORS!!!!
Ymous Anon It really is just ridiculous now. It's been established for years that the war on drugs is a failure, yet weed is still illegal in most parts of the world. Apparently Spain has made every drug legal a few years ago and have had great results. I don't drink as it makes me violently ill from small amounts, so if I go out to a club I'll want to be on a stimulant of some kind as it makes me really happy and social while still very much in control, unlike alcohol. I pretty much wont go out otherwise or will end up having a shitty time, as tends to happen with sober people at clubs. I would be deemed a criminal or even a druggy for choosing to take a pill to loosen up as opposed to drinking 8 beers. Yet if I chose to take the route of getting shitfaced drunk until I'm stumbling around, being obnoxious and spewing on the floor, then that's perfectly ok. It's a load of shit.
PanasonicTooth exactly my friend. read recently several new studies and the conclusion is that alcohol is the worst drug and meth a close second, alcohol causes depression, causes more people to become violent, cause more deaths than any other drug when under the influence. but would i say prohibit alcohol. no then you would relegate it to the underground market and violence would surround the alcohol business like the prohibition in the 1920's.
Here's a great organization in the US: LEAP meaning Law Enforcement Against Prohibition(of drugs, even want heroin to be legalized under medical supervision. these guys and gals are angels, from Judges to beat cops. see link below:
www.leap.cc/
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition(of drugs)
www.leap.cc/
Luminescence , thanks for the thumbs up. Feel free to add me to your circle of friends, contacts or whatever
great video, great speaker, great editing, great questions, great answers, great tradition
Thank you for fessing up. You,are one of the greats. J.G.
This post is long. Just an FYI, but it's relevant from Jazz-Rock drummer on topic.
You know, in the early 50's, weed was known to be associated with Jazz musicians, almost associated exclusively. In the NE, from Chi-town to NY, the club-life-work made harder drugs available, even used for payment for guys deep into H. Some of the greats were addicts, and the best way to tell who WAS and who was NOT? They ran hot & cold with their performances. One show be on fire, and the next, not very inspirational, tired, and some sloppy play. Have read that many sessions were 86'ed due to players too high to record. Sometimes, they would record warm-up stuff and it would be used. But, Art Blakey and Gene Krupa were known to use mollies (Dex) and Heroin. That's what they did, free form Jazz, and it opened up mental pathways that, much like deep meditation, allowed the music to be heard clearly, more definition when high, and like Bartz says, "It slowed down the action, you could see the music, and you hear the music, and then you can do all this NOT doing the drugs,so your mind will remember with more time to 'feel' what to play."
It's no different today. If anyone uses meds, drugs, whatever and listens to music and the medication makes the music sound BETTER ?!? That's what they mean, it sounded better and they also FELT better, and the result was some killer recordings and shows - most of the time. But, it's well known that guys who did one type of drug, it meant that all the users in a band used the same drug (i.e. H + speed didn't mix in playing styles, time, etc). So, amped up guys tended to play accordingly and mellow-type guys played-used the same and groove was united.
You can tell just by listening to any Jazz player from that time period especially, since there wasn't all the tools to fix the mix, but there were tools to fix the band. The regular users got used to their DOC, and did great - but were known to miss gigs, rehearsals, and sessions. Too sick to play. I once saw the Stan Kenton Band and got a chance to speak to the drummer at the time and he told me some wild stuff as he was almost asleep sitting on his stool, drifting. At the time (college), I thought he was tired - in retrospect, his long sleeve sweater (it was HOT in there) makes sense. He mumbled something about "any cool places around here, to - hey you guys cool, you know what I mean?" Yeah, I do now.
Some of the Tonight Show guys (no names) were doing something - don't know what, but I didn't give a damn. Clark Terry & Ed Shaughnessy both were sober and fantastic! They performed great at our show but, it WAS weird when others asked for assistance in helping them get ______. And, showing up to the show VERY stoned. But, hey, not throwing shadow or criticism at all. We all are visitors to that rodeo. Or have starred in our own version of this topic. I think the deal is this: Some musicians DRINK to calm nerves and in the brain, it lowers inhibitions, allowing people to 'try out' things on the fly, almost like a challenge, and it makes us better, but TOO much of anything, you won't think fast enough to play well. So there is that small area of 'just right' where a cat can play anything and play it extraordinarily well! But, I'm not advocating this - no - because look how many have DIED!??! Some guys, they didn't find their 'wake-up' fix, and had to miss sessions. And, ppl know - they know who is needing - detoxing, and it was a cycle that labels, other musicians, producers had to work around. I believe for all the music it created as 'inventive and free-form', the trade-off of ruination of great musicians, the loss of careers, and death from overdose was not worth it, in finality. Any needless death from trying to become 'sensational' is a waste.
A delicate balance, and a road that you tread on with a keen knowledge of the risks, the right amount for you, knowing the feeling well thru practice so you are not surprised by the feelings of relaxation of alcohol or the empowerment of the feeling of 'owning your instrument? This is VITAL. At a BIG show in college, two of our Lab band members thought it would be cool to drop LSD before a show. Uh, I can tell you this - NEVER DO THIS! as it was NOT COOL! The result was simply awful for everyone - they were impaired beyond words. And, I know they were terribly sorry for doing it. It caught them off-guard. Ruined the show. We cut it short, but played on without them as they were told in front of the audience by the Director - "Guys? Just stand there, put your horns down, and watch your band mates." Public humiliation. Then, he apologized to the audience and said we would try and get thru the program.
But, it has happened to many. Hendrix was hot-cold at times. Keith Moon was well-known to flake out, fall-out after one song, and they got someone from the audience to come up and play drums. The Doors, Jim Morrison, missed gigs passed out behind stage - and Amy Winehouse - God, what a tragic, open to the public, Circus freak show, on display for all the world to see. Her demise unfolding right before our eyes - and no one intervened. Not even her Parents. It was painfully clear she was going to DIE! Nothing, no one could save her from her enabling friend. Just like Gary talks about the 'Jazz drug circles' that existed. THAT is what can happen! Don't be any of these guys. I know from experience. There hasn't been a crisis for me, like that, since I was maybe 19, 20 yrs old. Someone (roadie) put something in my water-holder and it had me playing so fast, it was crazy. Too much. I hated what happened to me for two long days!
So, like the Civil War, or anything that HAPPENED in history, this too did happen in the Jazz world and it had casualties. Both life-death and career-ending. You might luck out and go on and be like the Pro Athletes using PED's to be BETTER - then again, you may get dropped from 'the band', fired for your 'drug-influenced playing' - or, you may die. But, to me? An even worse scenario is medications that you HAVE to take for chronic pain, they are RX, all because of something you have, an illness, a disease or ailment that causes the chronic pain - RX meds can alter your progress as a player, not allowing you to become even better, but more like how you played once you had to start treatment. IF it's not necessary for a healthy person (or just an addiction- habit) the euphoria addicts go downhill on meds and, in most cases, it hurts, or ruins, their career. Now labeled a 'risk', and not a 'ranked' player. It's a tough place to be in even if you MUST do treatment for chronic pain in order to play. For those who have a REAL issue, treatment is controlled and helps & aids in playing.
So, there were MANY more social, economic, racial, stereotyped reasons for the use of drugs by all these top Artists in Jazz music, and even today with ANY genre of music, drugs are there. The passing of PRINCE - a truly, 100% GIFTED Artist, one of the Greats - to die from "Too Much." He knew, but hid it well, but he was ill. And, the tragedy? He could have lived. Don't let this be you. My advice to anyone (that doesn't have to take meds for health reasons), IF you get something out of playing on weed, booze, or any other stuff? Do so when you practice and record yourself. If you are one that picks up different things while stoned, as an example? OK, but do it when you practice. And, remember - if it can happen to Prince or Whitney or (name one - the list is awfully long)? It CAN happen to you, just takes one slip-up with your reasoning, celebrating with the band, feeling good, and you just forget what you have done or mixed benzos with alcohol (a sure recipe for death) or dosed and lost track? You are in trouble, and then, ppl start to notice you fade. You think "how many of those did I take tonight"? Or, you don't think at this point - at all. Too Late. 911. They did not have rescue aids like Naloxone back then, and even today, carrying Naloxone signals 'drug user-abuser'.
This is long - sorry. But, there is nothing cool or hip or helping you make the scene, or copying your idol (who was an addict and died). You try crack, H, or speed at a gig, but you could be SAFER with the only safe thing = Cannabis. Alcohol is one of the worst drugs you can intake. And, it NEVER should be mixed with ANY med that can get you high. Even with MJ, make sure you aren't too faded to perform, or drive home - OR ruin a session. Just think about the trade-off and what you are doing. KNOW ahead of time what a substance does to you, your thinking, your playing, etc. And, it only takes a few times before you become known as a "Risk" player for other bands, sessions, etc - it will cost you money, no matter how good you are. True words in this video, but you clearly see how he decided it was worth the risk to join the pack, get in deep with the addiction, and roll the dice.
Just be careful, ok? Use your head and again, I am not anti 'anything' or 'anti-responsible, recreational use' here - NO - I am just saying there are a TON of issues in Pandora's Box of smoke & poppy & psychotropic relaxation that allow musicians to 'let go'. And, some of these can bite you - and bite you hard! Some of them are poisonous venom used wrongly. If you want to experiment? Read, learn, and study-up on what you are going to do. There is plenty of online INFO that will not only inform you, but in many cases, will SAVE your life. Truth. So, Peace and practice your preferences - use your knowledge, be smart, and know yourself, as well as your personality traits, even your genetics. Allergy, tolerance, adverse reactions - and, get a physical with blood work to know how your engine is running and if anything is a danger to you - or if you are prone to certain chemicals, etc. Play on, and stay safe. If you are good? Then play - you will only get better. ~SC
He was hooked on fentanyl, which is basically heroin on a pill. As far as I know, he started taking painkillers as early as the late 80s, and that made him addicted to opioids. Keep in mind he did bat shit crazy stuff on stage during the 80s. Look for videos of around 85 or something. The man would jump from a platform with heels on and dance immediately upon landing. It's quite unbelievable to see that footage. In the early 90s it was already common for him to walk with a cane. Pain in hips and knees. It's just he tried to hide it from people, including bandmates. He probably knew how much to use not to lose his mind on stage, he was very professional. Plus, I've heard he did coke in the 80s, which I don't find hard to believe given he worked like 18 hours a day
Very enlightening post man, thanks
Great post
Well put my friend...you should reprint this great statement every where it fits on you tube...save a lot of guys! Peppers book did that for me!! Prince was a good friend...Had I known his problem a month sooner... could have saved him with medical weed . It became legal in Minnesota ...so I got it and threw my pills away !! It would have worked on him too!! Even though he hated smoking. I was the only one ever allowed to smoke in the room and he screamed about it and told me QUIT or die....still spooks me. He was so fun....bad loss.... NICE writing!!!Tom Hoskamer, a drummer...
@@user-zw7oe4jv3j you are so right. Many people don't realize how much stress the body endures when one is wearing stilettos all the time; jumping landing on hard surfaces and doing splits and spins. Sometimes he walked with a cane. His hips knees and ankles were fracturing.The man was an athlete in pain 24 hours a day. He did all that to entertain us.
I know many of the jazz greats had addictions same as the rockers. I was fortunate enough to talk music, life, and whatever with them between sets as a teenage musician and fan at the village gate and bottom line. Some would ask me if I had, some not. But all those cats, dizz, sonny rollins, stit,sun ra, etc and their side men were all wise, sincere, caring, musically encouraging, and beautiful souls. These were the Beethovens of their genre, writing their symphonies in real time on stage. Some were addicted yes, but we all have some ball and chain that we fight to get off, and keep off in our lives. They were no different. Peace.
This was insightful and honest. Thank you for posting
honest and bold. thank you maestro
As a jazz fan (sadly not a musician) I can relate to these guys.
They practice a form of music that seeks a perfect connection between minds, to create astonishing and expressive group improvisations.
They are almost exclusively intellectuals, albeit sometimes in an esoteric way, who think about things differently to most people.
As a young man who's a fan of jazz now, in contemporary western society, I feel an oppressive weight almost every day when I hear bigoted ideas and backwards social attitudes.
Imagine being these geniuses back when society was even less free and less tolerant. They just found the most controversial thing they could do together and obviously found some level of connection in it.
I've never used heroin but I have had an addiction to low level opiate painkillers and it's like being one of a select few who've been let in on this great secret. The taboo and illegality of drugs compounds this effect.
Just think, these emotionally expressive, intellectually driven and socially ahead of their time people are already disillusioned by the failings of their society. They feel trapped in a world where the average Joe just wouldn't understand their deepest personality. Then they find out the few people they share this bond with all do drugs and that the drugs are fun (to an extent/initially) so of course they all did it.
It's like when I hear people talking about the Jeremy Kyle Show (British TV), rather than focusing on how the arrogant and hypocritical presenter pretends lie detector tests are real; essentially flipping a coin to decide whether he'll ruin a vulnerable person's life, they focus on benefits and drugs. It's the Victorian concept of the undeserving poor playing out in a society so saturated with nonsensical capitalist propaganda that people think the poor deserve what they have and the rich deserve theirs.
One episode of The Jeremy Kyle Show is enough to make me want to put some Chet Baker on and shoot up just to dull the pain of being trapped in a society that can't see the wool being pulled over its eyes. Fuck.
***** No. When he was high he could still play-- if he managed to show up for gigs and stay awake through them. He was so good, he could still play even when he was high. He got that good by practicing-- a lot. Practicing a WHOLE lot. Practicing and working to develop his skill-- with a seriousness and intensity that he could never have mustered if he had been as far gone early in his life as he was later.
It takes the hard work so that your fingers get to know the lay of the land so well that all you have to do is think music and they find it for you. When that preparation and inspiration meet in the same person, then we get great music. Where does that inspiration come from? Lots of it comes from that same working and practicing to nurture your craft; another lots of it comes from listening to what other people are doing and being alive to ideas in your world. And there certainly isn't much brain left over for thinking music if you have to be thinking which finger to move, pull the tongue in more or push it out more, bite down or loosen up, all that stuff.
I know I don't have to. I just want to. You know it, and so do I, and it can't be said too many times. World is full of people who are starting rather than mastering, and full of people itching to find that magic bullet, the secret potion. I've seen enough young people wreck themselves that way, and probably so have you.
Play on, man. Add another chorus to the truth; why else are any of us still alive?
theRealPlaidRabbit all musicians are attracted to drugs not just jazz players. Jimi Hendrix used to snort heroin and id put him in the same category as Miles. Musicians want to feel something beyond the normal boring 9 to 5 blah blah that we're conditioned to do from day one. Music is a sensual experience, and so is drugs, they go hand in hand. Unfortunately neither music or drugs are things that the 9 to 5 world runs on, if that makes sense. There it's all about stepping on people to get somewhere, musicians usually hate that kind of world.
Hmm. I wonder if musicians are greatly different from other people in that regard. Maybe-- but I wonder.
theRealPlaidRabbit musicians are artists and yes, artists are very different from most people, even though most people can appreciate art. Of course there isn't one kind of musician, because there's very deep and soulful music like jazz and then there's very shallow music like pop. But I'm mostly talking about the serious musicians like jazz artists.
Very worthwhile interview.
thanks so much for posting this.
I relate to Gary because I spent my childhood watching junkies nod out. Heroin addiction is big again. My childhood experience taught me to avoid it at all costs. That experience and choice to avoid saved my life.
Thanks for your wisdom.
I'm surprised, but not a bit disappointed that this showed up in my recommended
Great interview
That's interesting. I admire his candor.
His saxophone tone is unbelievable
What we really need to discuss is how a gain knob works.
Thank you so much for this video.
Amazing. I would never have imagined Philly Joe Jones used. He was so precise.
Naive.
This was some incredible insight.
Thanks for this Mr Bartz
I wonder if he was doped up when he made “Carnaval De L’ esprit.” I love that song.
One of my favorite players 🎶💖
Thanks for this video!
Great interview with a seminal artist.
I wish the word "Drugs" was not used so loosely in society. Mr Burton is talking about Heroin. Full stop.
so what ? legalizing heroin under medical supervision will lead to a great drop in lethal o.d. it's human nature that if you feel secure in this case where your next fix will be there you will feel less desperate, less anxious, and take less and easier to get clean. benzodiazepines like xanax cause many more deaths in cold turkey than in cold turkey from smack. the main good thing about legalization is it puts the competing cartels and drug gangs out of business and violence will plummet just as violence went way down after the lifting of alcohol prohibition.
I have a problem with your reasoning. So you are saying that if someone feels secure that they know they will get their next fix then they will tend to do less because of all the emotional motivations you listed? Seems like a big leap.
+Joey A they tried it out in swizerland and it had only positive effects
Kevin Haigh, Thank you. So then he talks about the perceptual awareness enhancement thing, is he also here referring to H?
Kevin Haigh q
Miles said "Drugs do make you more creative." ... of course to a point, then hard drugs screw you. But as Bartz pointed out (5:40) when you stop you retain some of the positive aspects. Its left brain right brain, IMO. And of course there's a HUGE difference between psychedelics and "body" drugs. The other thing is certain drugs tend to appeal to certain people... some people don't like heroin, so they never get addicted. Musicians are curious people... they are often curious about drugs. Its a normal thing to want to transcend the ordinary if you are an artist.
YOU DON'T WANT NO PART OF THIS DEWEY COX... it slows everything down to the point at which you can see and hear everything, enhancing improvisational ability-IT'S A NIGHTMARE
LOL everybody else around you is in normal time but you feel like Quicksilver
I kept hearing him say in my head “And Dewey never paid for the drugs. Not once!”
I really love what this guy just said. He's absolutely correct in every way. Being a musician that has suffered with Heroin addiction myself. I would agree what he said about the only close to possible positive thing about it. He put it in a way That I think describes it best.
Gary:
Thanks for saying that you can get to the same state of consciousness by other means other than heroin.
+rovingeye5 Glad you commented. In those times, there wasn't the info.To anyone suffering, please stand strong, watch Gabor Mate, look within your heart, make peace with yourself & all. Healing one & all.
Yeah or you could try the good old tried and trusted bash yourself with a brick on the back of your head technique.
Does it for me every time and it's cheaper. I miss out on the high society and the in crowd though.
Pat Metheny says he's never even tasted alcohol let alone other drugs. I guess the music & creative process is enough for him & that's fine by me.
I wouldn't believe that
Dude, the word *meth* is right in his name!
Half the reason why he was good but not mind blowing
The fuck is Pat Matheny?
@@robertstevenson3214 A drugdealer
Thank you 🙏
Gary Bartz ...... my favorite horn player!!! So Glad you're still around Gary!
When you coming back to LA???
As an addict, talking about myself., my drug of choice fooled me for years. Close to 20 years sober, the reality scares me more now than before. The stuff will kill you. Thank God for recovery.
Congratulations!!
I fully appreciate how you just left it at 'drug of choice' without calling it out by name. Whatever that drug was, I'm sure it's popular enough. No need to give it any more attention than it already gets. Here's to another twenty years cleans. God speed.
Congratulations.
"..when life puts that ju ju on ya, ya gotta be like me, ya gotta have ya gris gris.." --- title cut from 'Music is My Sanctuary'--Gary Bartz, 1977.
100%!! That's real, that's TRUTH!!!
Thank You
"The only thing positive that comes out of it.." You live long enough to quit.
You missed what he said at 5:40... and really people who have never tried any drugs don't know much about the subject.
@@dorengarcia7925 sounds like to me he's proving my point. he "lived long enough to quit" what are you talkin about? I don't need to be on drugs, ever having done drugs, or experience the lingering effects of having done so, in order to know what the desired outcome should be - To still be alive! My comprehension skills are pretty keen. What's your excuse?
You can gain presence and mindfulness through other means than drugs. Of course, in this western society, these skills are not taught in schools or even discussed at large in the populace, so for 30 something Jazz musicians of the time, there would be no way to introduce them to meditation, but if you are aware of meditation and how to do it, then you can experience anything that drugs have to offer without the risk of death or arrest.
***** indeed :) may ya be in touch with that power, friend
Meditation doesn't get you in the same mood as Weed. It's cool and all but the chemistry in the herb is strong. Whoever thinks the mind can produce THC (Tetrahidrocannabinol) naturally is stupid. There is no other way to get the same effect.
Roberto Zarrabal except that it does. The brain naturally has Cannabinoid receptors and produces Anandamide which has a similar effect as THC. This was discovered back in 2009.
Im happy to see many finding out these practices. Psychedelics have helped alot in bringing meditation and mon dualism to the west
Heyyy gary no neeen to explain Sir we love you man💯
5:07 what he says is very profound and accurate...
i just love gary
Problem with meditation is; it takes a looong time to get there, IF ever. The appeal of drugs is the instant effect, no discipline, no waiting, no ifs and maybes. But a hard price just around the corner for sure.
Most of the world problems could be solved if people could sit quietly alone for a half hour twice a day. Meditation.
"Walking on water wasn't built in a day" ~ Jack Kerouac
Heroin AND Alcohol, not just smack. Alcohol killed as many Jazz Greats as Heroin.
yes & drug prohibition just makes things worse IMHO. And I wonder how many had hep c & didn't know it.
Bruce Caldwell I disagree. Drug prohibition doesn’t make it worse. From what I’m seeing, legalising makes it worse. I think false information about drugs being good for us makes it worse. It encourages people to use it. I believe that’s what happened years ago. People thought it made them more creative or better musicians. A lot died. Also, alcohol was an issue but I think a lot of it came from the pressure of music a life and not learning how to cope properly.
@@JRCGuitarist Then why was alcohol prohibition repealed after 13 years? Because it was a miserable failure.
@@brucecaldwell6701 Agree Bruce. Prohibition of alcohol was abysmal. And prohibition of drugs is abysmal.
Mixing the 2 is lethal
I know that I am late but there are some real big boy conversations and knowledge discussed here.
I am 65 and a music teacher. My own brother, was a physician, became addicted to anti depression medicine and eventually committed suicide, so addiction is not just a problem for musicians, but all people! I love all types of music. I understand the conditions that many great jazz musicians had to deal with, including racism, poverty, crummy conditions, criminals, who exploited them, along with club owners, promoters, etc. Many people have tendencies to overuse something that feels good, alleviates pain, physically, as well as emotionally, including drugs, sex, food, etc.These addictions also make them greedy, selfish and most likely difficult to deal with in any kind of relationship. The psychological, cultural & economic reasons for these addictions is a a topic that has been studied for many years and beyond the scope of my comments, as is the reason for the conditions in America for the arts. Unfortunately these addictions all have consequences, especially illegal substances, including jail sentences. Like Gary says, many young people get seduced by the false narrative of someone they admire. Belonging to an exclusive club of "heavy" musicians, being "hip", thinking they'll play better high, have more endurance, be more creative. How many nameless musicians fell by the wayside, with the thought that the drugs and not the studying, knowledge, the hard work & experience, of performing music, was the answer? How about using your mind to expose yourself to other arts, like literature, film, theater, painting, sculpture, for inspiration? Would not Charlie Parker been as great without drugs? Wasn't he remorseful, knowing that the imitation of his drug use had a negative effect on many of his admirers? I also agree drugs should be legalized, so that people who feel a need to use them don't have to go to the street corner, etc., take drug dealers off the street, make it safer in our neighborhoods and stop our country from spending countless money and manpower on policing it, including wars. I am glad Gary mentioned, in the end of his speech, that you might get to the same place that drugs brought him and others, through natural means, or if I may add on my own, just by toughing it out! Over the years, I have met many musicians, who I thought were incredibly talented, hard working and did not use drugs! While I love the music of Charlie Parker & John Coltrane, both heroin addicts, who died very young, I cant help but think of their potential, if they were not drug users ,and how much music they left unfinished, which would have further enhanced the enjoyment of their many followers! Finally, where is the glamour or intelligence, of sticking a needle in your arm, if you're a healthy person and artificially enhancing your awareness, when you might get to the same place through natural means, albeit, perhaps a longer route? Would ANYONE tell a child that drugs are a means to eventual success? I think it's pretty clear what the more responsible way is, especially if you want to have a life that is productive, lengthy, healthy, not out of control and not a "drag" to everyone around you! While I applaud the accomplishments of great musicians, I also admire every day people, who avoid drugs to deal with emotional pain or to seemingly enhance their perception, have normal lives, go to work everyday, have families, help their children, their community, friends, their parents, etc. Makes me think of the song, "It's Hip To Be Square"!
Robert Stone ,So true.
Amén, Brother.
Amazing....
Thank you for your incredible transparency.
Fascinating
GOD BLESSED LESTER YOUNG with an almost uncanny blues sound that was light and airy and profound he was the leading Tenor player in the late 1930's.
When you’re born with a great capacity, a great consciousness, you feel deeply the suffering of the humanity , you are drawn to things which can dull the senses, to reduce that great capacity for suffering
Good on Gary Bartz for being real. "I wish I didn't like it." Open and honest, clearly the man regrets it.
what we need to be looking at here is how Art Blakey and Philly Joe did so much smack and consistently nailed the time swing and phrasing every time they sat down on that drum throne ...proper old school shamans
A tenor sax player friend of mine worked in NYC and was good friends with Michael Brecker and I remember him telling me that Brecker used to tell him that playing after doing Heroin was the most amazing thing ever. Guys like that and Charlie Parker didn't need it for sure, but most likely propelled their playing into another level.
Gary Bartz Talks About Jazz Use Among the Drug Greats
I always felt, in Birds case, (and other great artists) the responsibility of his genius was a heavy burden. Tbe drugs gave an escape he got no other way. At least at first. Once the drug takes over its the drug longing for itself.
This effectively answered some questions I've wondered about for years. A very good video. Ok sound was one channel down, but not a problem. I wondered if drugs like he was talking about enhanced a player's creative ability or hindered it.? I have heard Bill Evans when strung out on Heroin and losing the bar line of the rhythm solo playing and sounding confused. But also when high on drugs in a group playing magnificently. This video explains so well how the drug slows the player's clock-speed down so it's easier to make decisions without rushing or panicking. That is the first time I've really understood how the addiction sometimes enchances the artistic output. Amazing. I would never dare do that.
(hard) Drugs do no more than lock you out of your creative life...it seems like the gateway to creativity,thats the first hit. John Maclaughlin is a fine example of what not to do to "get there".
I'm primarily a jazz music fan now. But when I was a big time hard rock music fan, the one band that seemed to sound better when they were strung out on smack was the band Aerosmith. Albums like Draw The Line, Aerosmith Rocks, & A Night In The Ruts were among their best sounding albums. The crazy part being, that's when they were more strung out than straight minded. I used to jam with my friends in a studio. I'd play bass guitar. Sure, we partied. But the furthest we went was hard liquor and marijuana. And that was always when we'd be away from the music. Everyone agreed to be sober & never getting high when spending time focusing on the music. It worked out well for us. That's going back to the 80s & 90s. What happened to the band? I got married and started focusing on starting a family. Two different lifestyles didn't pan out. I miss those days, And I'll always treasure them.
5.08. The real reason it is so appealing
My father was a jazz guitarist in Detroit Michigan. Married at three kids worked at the post office. A great band got plenty of work around the Detroit area. Lot of top Jazz fans wanted him to travel with them. But he didn't want to leave the family. And the band that he was in I knew there were about three of them that were on heroin. I would hear my mom and dad at night talkin about them. Sometimes they wouldn't make band practice or show up for Gig because they were heroin addicts
This may answer, or may not answer, a question I have had with myself about about my appreciation of young trumpet players like Doram and Morgan who were just a few years older than me. The music in their young careers was full of fire and vigor and unpredictability, then in just a few years the muse was diminished and even lost. The most notable player was Freddie Hubbard who when he started with Blakey was as amazing as the others. My favorite was his solo in "Stolen Moments", not with Blakey but during that time period. Then he went on his own, had a long successful career, however his music did not appeal to me. It lacked something. I could not figure why it had lost something - at least to me. I never considered heroin, where to have a long career you must quit the stuff or you wind up dead.
Read Stan Getz book. It's indicative of why jazz musicians did drugs back then. I can only imagine doing multiple shows a day for a week, the whole year. Being some label's meal ticket. And dealing with a cut throat industry alot of it by your friends. Broken homes, broken marriages. No wonder heroin and coke were so attractive then.
No joke. And if you were the bandleader, you were kind of responsible for everybody's livelihood in the band. You would have to be constantly hustling. Trying to line up gigs, tours, recording sessions so everyone could feed their families and continue to work with you. Another bandleader would poach your guys in a hot minute! Like you said, cutthroat. The pressure would've been incredible.
maybe a bit paradoxal point..
but art itself is much stronger and consistent tool for changing perception of reality than any drugs.
Yury Liman how does one send that message to those who have already developed a ... habit or affinity for it
True
Very important I think, that opiate high give them a connection to the music, that once experienced they don’t lose. But chasing it with subsequent usage is the trap. Better to find it again, via meditation, relaxation.
Once the door is opened and you step through you don't need to open it again because you're already there.
I agree Ymous...
The only drug i take is Jazz man
hey man, I can dig it. I need that sweet hit of Jazz every morning just to get up.
so rad
Try acid then, it will enhance the Jazz
i bet girls think that is hot.
@@SurgeCess you're not the only one out there :)
It's probably the best combo as far as temptation goes: emotionally intense people, plus fame and lots of others doing drugs, plus pressure to be 'loose' to perform or create... Gees.
That’s interesting what he said about it slowing everything down. I’d imagine there’s a trick to that as well. Watched an interview with Joe Strummer of The Clash not long ago and he was asked about drummer Topper Headon leaving the band. Joe explained that he and Topper were the two that locked down the music and that started slipping away when heroine entered Toppers life. Not the right drug for drummers, said Joe.
Unfortunately it was prevalent in a lot of musicians and singers. It still is today maybe not as quite as many but the use of drugs and alcohol is thick in the entertainment realm and regular society. You can only pray.
Very curious on what his approach would be to seeing music, slowing it down and being able to make those decisions through mediation rather than drugs. It seems like one of those things where you can only describe it so much, you’ll never learn more than you would from experiencing it. I doubt I’d ever touch the stuff, so getting to that point seems like it would be an interesting, lifelong path.
I also found this video from a list of jazz musicians who were known users. Honestly, it’s disappointing, heartbreaking, and harbors mixed emotions for me to see so many of my heroes on the list that I had no clue were users (biggest one being Bud Powell) but Gary does great job here explaining that it was simply just a different time back then. I wonder if that’s part of the reason why modern jazz is so different now…
5:42 that is insanely true.
Ken Burns "Jazz" put a lot of names out there Blakey, Gerry Mulligan, Fats Navaro, Coltrane, and Miles, for example. "Chasing The Train" said Philly Jo Jones was like the "Pied Piper" of the stuff. But the beast was Parker. He was THE poster child. Jackie McLean said essentially Parker was great, he used the stuff... 1 + 1 is 2.
Heroin is a very bad thing but this was the clearest explanation of the "positive" effect of heroin on all of those legendary jazz musicians. This interview gave phenomenal insight that a lot of people will never get to experience.
I think it's funny people blaming Blakey as really almost all Jazz musicians were doing heroin at one time.
Thank you, Gary for telling us this story. I knew about miles and thelonious but not the others.
5:12 - " (Heroin) slows everything down' - Steve Tyler of Aerosmith said exactly the same thing about the effects of opiates.
That's becoZ heroin IS an opiaTe
My brother has been in jazz for about 55 years, and he has been offered drugs many times. Basically, players take it because they're shy, don't feel comfortable in front of crowds, think it helps their playing, etc.. Unfortunately it doesn't help in the long run, and we've lost many talented players too soon. I am like Rafa G. below---I feed off of jazz music instead.
It’s the key to the jazz MATRIX
if you don't do drugs, you would end up like kenny g... well
That's funny..
Or become Lawrence Welk..
Or Sammy Davis.
or become a student at Grove City College in Pennsylvania. racist mother fucking school too.
Kenny G takes his inspiration from elevators.
and some who do become Chuck Norris
What happened to the sound?
He died 6/6/1991
I also unfortunately was on H when i first was introduced to jazz. It’s mostly thc users I’m running into in the jazz world nowadays. Weird thing is, the music wouldn’t be the same without the influence of drugs . Jazz might not even exist if it wasn’t for the smacked up musiciiao
I was once a heroin addict. I was well known among my clique of drug users for a strict adherence to having a wake up shot. Too many druggies have zero self control. . Nothing beats getting up in the morning, getting high, drinking coffee and reading the newspaper lol.
"You know that you know, because sometimes you know, you know, you know and the only thing is positive, you know..."
Elizabeth! I’m coming
I clicked on this video cause I thought that was my man, Fred G Sandford.
One thing Gary is wrong about is there are no former drug addicts. If you quit, it means you've learned not to us those, but still still drug addict for rest of life.
ondaride777 It is called recovery which is an ongoing struggle to remain clean and sober.
ondaride777 That's just a good business tactic for the medical/psychiatric industry.
***** I stopped dope, but if I try one dose, I'm done. I live with it that I always want it and will always want it. Same with alcoholics.
But calling yourself an addict for life implants the subconscious suggestion that does the person in.
***** Thanks for your wisdom puppy, but I'd rather learn from mature ones.
You can also have your cake and eat it too. I used to have a $320 a day heroin habit years ago, then i took a break for financial reasons and was sick of being a junkie and being sick all the time and needing it to do anything. After a month break a started using again but only 3-4 times a week and never more than 2 days in a row and only $40-$60 a day on the days I use. I’ve been doing this for years now and I never get sick or go through withdrawal anymore in all that time, I’m free to travel, to on vacations, live a normal happy healthy life. I work out, have a great career doing what I love, in a loving relationship. And anyone can do this, it just takes will power. I look at it as a treat now not a lifestyle and I do it cause I enjoy because I want to not cause I need to ;)