Bowtech part ways with Kyle Douglas and Tim Gillingham keep Paige Pearce
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2023
- I discuss Bowtech's decision to part ways with Staff shooters Tim Gillingham and Kyle Douglas and put the money into grass roots archery.
I will discuss reasons why Bowtech may have kept Paige. Different methods manufacturers use to grow their business. As a shop does this mean you will stock less Bowtech and depending where Tim and Kyle end up will you need to stock more of another brand. 
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I appreciate that Paige Pearce shares her knowledge on RUclips and when I have posted comments or questions in the past, she has made the effort to respond. I think she is a great ambassador for the sport.
100% I guess it's hard to find both, that great archer e.g. Page Pearce, and a great communicator a.k.a. sales person.
That's the kind of athlete you want on your books. Someone who's knowledgeable and personable and positively promotes the brand.
Tim Gillingham has a huge social media presence and spends all day talking to archers by phone, email, and social media posts. Nothing against Paige but I think Tim has way more interactions with archers then Paige. Personally I think the only reason Paige is still with them is her contract would not let them end it early. I can promise you the money Bowtech saves is not going into the pockets of amateur archers. Levi Morgan left when his contract was up. This is different Kyle and Tim were dropped in yhe middle of their contracts.
I own Predator's Archery in Gilroy California USA. You are 100 percent accurate. I was once asked by Mathews how many bows Levi helped me sell. My answer " not a one, I sold them all myself". As for the Dudley PSE bows, even though I am a top 50 dealer, I will not sell any. Dudley programs people to buy online, bypassing pro shops. Take note, there is not a single Instagram post from him to support local archery shops
Nock on archery all archery all the time. Means all what nock on promotes which I get but change ur intro
I’ve said this before Steven, but you are one of the few archery internet presenters discussing the business of the sport. Learned a lot from you.
Our issues in the USA with shop incentives is that most shops are incredibly small and very regional. Where. Ows are manufactured, arrows, releases, etc. makes a huge difference on availability and drive to sell. Even knowing this the "incentive" pushes from manufacturers are the same whether you have an LAS sized store or a mom and pop. Some companies want $40k of product turnover for a free bow or two. That's nuts for most shops in the US that might turn over 10-25 bows a year from one brand. We're in Pennsylvania with one of the highest hunter numbers in the country and we still are a large shop at 3200sqft. You just can't do the kinds of numbers incentives are asked for at that size.
Love all your honesty in your videos, thank you for telling us how things work.👍🏻
I love your honest product reviews whether companies like your review or not. Steve, you dont promote what is the most expensive/profitable but always remind viewers what is budget friendly and good to use/shoot. Thank you very much for your content !!!
Great video.
I love how you end each video.
You remind me of a news reporter.
"I'm Steven Hen from Archery Supplies, Thanks for watching"
Back to you Jen.
😊
Great video, Steve. Competitive archers constitute a smaller percentage than amateurs and they'll shoot whatever feels best to them. That's where you have the upper hand - you stock all makes and models and allow people to come in and test the "fit and feel". I think you yourself will convince more people to buy certain bows than the professionals because you are always very honest and you will provide constructive criticism where others won't. Case in point with the B3 release aid. I thought it was brilliant because you showed how to rectify a common problem!
P.S. You're looking great mate! Awesome to see after your surgery. I've gotta get my ass over to SA to see you and your new store.
Paige has great content for tuning and form, it's to the point and very informative. She responds to comments and questions in detail. It has impressed me massively but does that lead to sales? I don't know.
I think Paige shoots amazing too. So she would beat most men - so it is a real power move where the girl is more powerful than the guy. I agree Paige appears to do more social media.
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale Very true, I should have added she's also an incredible archer.
More sales???
I'm one of those people who is not influenced by others or advertising.
If I like it, I like it. Then I look at how it's put together.
If I think it's good value and will work for me. I'll buy it.
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale Archery is one sport where men and women are on the same level. ( not like some swimmers we know ) A little less poundage perhaps, but just as accurate.
I messaged with Tim G about a bow site accessories. When you call Gold Tip there’s a good chance Tim will pick up the phone. He pretty accessible. I always enjoy your insight Stephen keep up the good work.
I totally agree, good guy
Since Archery is such an individual sport, it is always said to make it (the bow and the bow setup) meet your preferences. That said, it is great to watch or shoot against brand named people since a person will continue to learn something out of it all and have a good time while doing it. John Force did not sell me on a ford, olds, pontiac, chevy, because of his backing. Obviously, Archery is not my bread and butter but small incentives from Archery product manufacturers at shoots really help everyone in the end. At least a person can give an honest review on the product if it is a win or a fail for their preferences. This was a great youtube. Thanks
Paige is very accessible to her followers. If I sent her messages in the past she would reply even though she has a massive following. Paige always has a positive vibe about her, promoting the gear she uses, even her fellow competitors. She is a manufacturers dream and Bowtech is lucky to have her on board. I would Consider myself new to archery, I don’t really know the other two Bowtech let go, wouldn’t know what brand they shot, what gear they used, wouldn’t even know if they had a social
Media presence where as Paige is everywhere. Always posting pics/videos of her hunts and all the gear she uses through out the year, tags all the brands she is an ambassador for.
Really appreciate your channel and honesty about the bow industry
Brilliant!
I for one am not the type who cares who’s shooting what. Bowhunter for 40+ years . I shoot what works for me.
However I understand that market you are speaking about, all the ins n outs of “ followers” and profiles related to sales and such.
I think that you have a great business model philosophy.
Hope it comes to fruition for you!
God bless Steven, love your vids and insights!
Had the same release issue with carter back in the day. Target 4 sear failed; i was young and didnt have money to fix it. They covered it from Wales to USA. Fixed the issue, worked with me a little further and i've never bought a different brand since. I've shot really well with various carters and they're a fabulous brand to work with. Pulling dealers and sales is insane, especially if you're fixing or explaining a flaw.
I’ve spoken to Tim SEVERAL times and Kyle a couple times via social media… both gave me a good bit of knowledge… I’ve only been shooting a bow for 4 years and have never met either of them in person before
Awesome content on this video Stephen. Love all your videos!
Thank you
As a previous archery company owner I studied this and found out if I could sponsor a dealer or someone that worked at a dealership would increase sales. Sponsored Pro Archers never increased sales. $0.02
I really do not comment much. It is nice to hear from a dealers perseptive.
Bowtech can call me if they want grassroots archer. I AM WILLING TO ACCEPT A LOW RATE to shoot a Bowtech, like getting a compound bow.
In the old days Dad would swap the bow each year of a top archer at no cost. Then Hoyt offered 2 bows and X10's So about $6,000 to a local archer. Yes the local archers are normally happy with anything. LOL yes you would probably be happy with a Bowtech.
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale I on the first 10% of my journey in archery. I’m such a beginner and low economic tier that my arrows don’t have fletching (half joke, half serious about no fletch). Luckily, my victory 500 match my recurve. A Bowtech would be wasted on me.
Serious note, I’m looking to buy a used WinWin compound base on your review.
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale also, I love your honest talk about the reality of life and industry.
Influencers are now being sponsored like professional athletes in golf, seems like archery may be right behind. For those new to archery, they will likely know Paige well because of her involvement and amazing willingness to help people and answer questions.
Totally agree, I have only just heard of the two guys. I'm not going to buy a bow because a certain archer shoots a certain brand, I don't get it.
Tim talks to everyone and Kyle has responded to me couple times. I can't say that about other pros
Thanks Steve I follow you but possibly not a fan, however as a marketing manager you have hit a nerve and I cannot disagree with your assessment. Thanks so much for your honesty. Maybe I'm now a fan.
When are you gonna review the x10 dragon by sanlida??????
I love my bowtech ss but im going back to elite because of the limb stops
I would say that youtube and other social media platforms will sell more bows than any professional shooter. I'm looking for my first flagship hunting bow, and my information is coming from places like Podium Archer and Average Jack, I watch the tournaments for fun, not because the archers are influential to my decision.
Excellent discussion. Kyle, Tim, and Paige...a lot of your customers have spoken with Paige...this is the key. She is a huge ambassador for Bowtech and sharing of her knowledge. Kyle and Tim: seems like they were not good marketers of the product. I would not buy Bowtech bc of Tim or Kyle. Yes bc of Paige and if the bow shot well for me. I do not like archers moving around all the time. I like Hoyt and how they shoot and not for any ambassador of Hoyt.
Bought my bowtech on the adjustability and access to tuning vids by Paige.
You are 100 percent spot on
Great Video!
The bows the "Pros" use will always be out of the budgets of most, so *Value for Money* will always be a priority.
_How do we accurately gauge this?!_
RUclips? Club Shoots? Or Advertising?...
Spot on. Have you been able to have a sit down with any of the major bow manufacturers on this? Maybe not their marketing team but the actual money behind the marketing budget. 😂
I just recently bought a Reckoning Gen 2 39 and decisive factors to buy this brand was due to the fact of the innovative Bowtech's design and tunning without having to use a bow press. I really don't pay attention to professional archers on their respective sporting categories. In other words I really don't care if Bowtech dropped all their factory professional shooters.
Well done!! You really captured the reason "why" Bowtech did what they did.
I do find it odd that when an Archer changes brand there just isn't this much animosity... Folks are in business to make money. Professionals do what they do to make as much money as they can.. Amateur Archers should be excited as there will be more opportunities for them. Go earn the chance to represent your brand 😀
The answer is trust. They just signed Kyle in January, and Tim has been a huge factor on product development. You want me to buy a 2000 dollar bow and trust that you will stand behind the quality? You didn't stand behind your contract with your shooters why would I expect you to stand behind me. I'm just a lowly consumer.
@averagearcher9523 yet, we "trust" those same Archers when they switch brands and the new bow is "better". The driving force for either party is $$$
As someone who loves the sport of archery. I absolutely pay no attention to these archers who represent the bow companies. In fact, Steven, although I'm in the southeastern US, I have watched many of your reviews and am much more likely to go out and shoot a bow that you've given a good review. One year these people represent PSE, the next year Mathews. I just don't associate a bow with a shooter------unless, for example as you mentioned---the bow is the John Dudley or Tim Gillingham model
Like a good story from someone that has lived it
My pse embark hunting bow was amazing right out of the box it can shoot way better than me. I can't wait to get a good rest and sight on it. I'm already smashing arrows with a cheap sight and rest.
Bow Tech is nuts!
Hardly surprised they kept Paige on as a staff shooter. She can shoot the hell out of a bow dominates the women's division, has some great content on form & bow tuning, is happy to engage with her followers and replies to lots of comments on her videos & posts, she comes off as this genuinely nice person and she has this great "girl next door" vibe. All in all everything you want in someone repping your product. Plus doesn't hurt most guys wished she was their girlfriend too.
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I took the grassroots to mean that Bowtech would concentrate on Hunting and not target shooting as the US is more hunting and field. Sebastian Flute was a success for recurvers. the products were decent and affordable.
Bow manufacturers paying a lot of money to shooters is one reason bows cost so much. The consumer basically pays to have bows advertised to them.
Man i still want the dudley ntn
I wonder if they will cut back on the big checks they were paying Paige ???
Wouldn't it be ideal if the top shooter for the company could not only shoot well and win major tournaments but that he/she had the gift of a great salesman, i.e. communicates with archers, not unlike Page Pearce. And as you suggest the branding of the bow is then tied to that archer. Perhaps the bow companies train, provide incentives to not only shoot well but are actively involved in sales AND marketing. CONCLUSION: Being able to walk and chew gum at the same time. LOL!
Smart move really.. 3d comps are really only popular in America for compound, yes there is a following globally of course but not really that much when you get into it.. The views on the videos posted around youtube showing the full comps says all you need to know.. Going for the Amateur market is a far better proposition than trying to sell a couple of bows to guys who either think they will be pros or just follow the comps.. I would never buy a top of the line compound bow.. I love the sport but I just simply dont need one.. Im a rank amateur who shoots in his back yard, At a guess, over 90% of the population of archers are in the same situation..
Gillingham left Mathews? I was unaware. He has been advertising Mathews in my mind until this video😂.
Kyle owns a store and will likely drop Bowtech which isn’t great.
Tim spends a lot of time helping archers online.
Bowtech did not honour their long contracts that were recently signed. Hopefully they got a decent payout for breaking contract and Bowtech didn’t find some slimy way to legally get out of them.
If it’s the latter then their current popularity will likely take a huge nose dive once social media rips them a new one.
Influential figures within the archery community are already commenting and it will depend how this shakes out.
I am not against dropping shooters but do have issues if the contracts were not covered off
Pros shoot whatever they're paid most to shoot. It has zero effect on what i choose to purchase.
👍
I have been saying it for years! If you were building a skyscraper you would put 60% of your budget into the foundation and the rest into the middle and top! The foundation being the amateurs.
Page is a great rep for Bowtech. Any brand would be lucky to have her honestly. As far as bow brand influencing. I only have been shooting for nearly 3 years and Bear was the first brand that came across my path when shopping for a bow. But after many weeks/months of research, I started learning about PSE, Hoyt, Bowtech, Mathews and other big name brands. It was a RUclipsr(Chris Bee) doing a shop tour and happened to be in my area and exposed me to a bow shop within a half an hour of my shop. Now granted Chris Bee shoots Mathews and this shop was a HUGE Mathews seller (second largest Mathews retailer in the US) . I ended up getting a Hoyt (torrex). Eventually i came to terms with the fact that i'm really not a Hunter but love shooting. So i went to a local archery range that was a PSE (only) retailer. I was a bit bummed they only had the PSE. Regardless though I ended up getting a PSE Lazer for a target bow. It is a great bow! I'm pretty happy with it. I couldn't name any pro archers on PSE if i could be honest.
I think the idea of signature bows for your pro shooters is a great idea.
Logic and Reason... refreshing.
I'm from Germany and bought a Tru Ball Execution Release because of Paiges recommendation. 😊
Paige is a good figure head.
She shoots well.
She helps the community.
Would I buy a product because of the above.
No.
I'm not influenced by others, their performance or advertising.
If I like it, it's within budget and it fulfills the need. I'll buy it
The reviewer for Lancaster archery.
Everything he reviews. It's the best thing he's used.
.
You are spot on 👍
I agree with you 100% I buy a bow based on your three criteria. I've never bought a bow, a tennis racket or bicycle based on who uses or endorses the product. As for the Lancaster guy? He's like a used car salesman.
Gotta luv corp greed. Luv bowtech but sh++ move on their part. Biz is brutal. Glad youre feeling better btw!
I would recommend taking a look at the photos of the checks Tim, Kyle and Paige display while on the podium. Bowtech issue significantly higher checks to Paige. On the ASA tour this year, Paige got $11000.00 per win. She won all 5 ASA shoots. She cashed $55,000.00. Tim and Kyle did not come close to those amounts. I thinks Paiges contract is pricing Bowtech out of Pro sponsorship.
Archers in the USA do not care about which target archers are sponsored or on the payroll of various archery companies. Levi Morgan is the only name that carries any real weight based only on his competitive success. Everyone else that matters is either a hunter, or well known social media personality, or both. Being a successful tournament archer is just a bonus. The market is hunters. I would bet that The Hunting Public has done more to help Bear's sales than either of these two did to help Bowtech, and it's probably not even close. Bow manufactures have been slow to figure out that their actual customers don't follow competitive archery. At. All.
No doubt that Paige works hard promoting Bowtech & allows brand fans complete accessibility , possibly more than any other Pro archer . Does Kyle ? Tim has, but nothing like Paige. I have met Paige, she is very pleasant & approachable, so it's no act. Early days after this announcement, so let's see how Bowtech distributes their marketing funds now.
I have personally messaged and talked to Tim at several events, he seems to be a great guy 👍
Maybe Tim was dropped because of the 30 yard hunter comment on his nock fit video
Can you please elaborate?
I dont know of a hunter comment - I think it will be the wage offered. It is hard to know what people get paid to shoot a product. I wonder if the boys got paid more than Paige. I assume Paige is the highest paid female archer.
Dudley generates 10 sales.....
Gillingham probably doesn't even know what social media is......
Mathews will be a monopoly before long one person owns it guarantee these guys are picked up by mathews
Where have you been? lol ... They were. Both of them. I have a new respect for mathews these days. I never realized how much they put into supporting the sport as a whole. It needs to be done for the sport to continue and to grow. Whether or not the pros directly correlate to increased sales is somewhat irrelevant. You need pros if you want a sport. Its just part of the deal. Mathews and Hoyt understand this. As well as Elite, PSE, and now Darton. Bowtech is retarded for what they did. They spent 10 years working on their target lineup and breaking their way into the top tier of target bows... and they did, and then decided to sabotage it all 1 year later, lol. They are fools with garbage ethics. Dropping Tim and Kyle late in the season after all the companies had locked in their yearly contracts was just gross. Kudos to Mathews for making room AFTER they already had their shooting staff finalized. I like bowtech bows....I think they are good. I was considering one for my next bow... buut now I am not, and probably wont for quite some time. The other companies make bows every bit as good or better so I would rather support a company that gives a damn about its staff, and that reward success. Their 300k for amateurs is complete b.s too.. A bowtech shooter would have to win every event and fill 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at every podium. They will probably pay out 20k of the 300 promised. They are misleading everyone to think they are doing some big great thing for the sport. They are being veery slimy as far as I am concerned.
Its no different than bike companies screwing their riders over... There is a bike brand I will not support because of something they did, and it was a while ago. Not when there are amazing options available from companies with decent ethics that care.
Anyways, thats just my opinion on the matter. They make good bows so from that standpoint I hope they fire the idiot that came in and made all this noise.
Boywtech has that choonability.
Paige is so hot…… and she’s the best woman shooter there is. Don’t forget about the 16 year old phenom Brodie Turner….. those 2 are selling more Bowtechs and all they need.
I never liked Tim Gillingham as I find him arrogant, brash, cocky, and extremely self centered. He's always come off as his way is the only way and any other way is wrong, despite there being objective evidence to the contrary. When the heavier arrow with high forward of center debate heated up online, a proven concept over a 30+ year study, he wrote it off. Oddly enough though, when he shot some record high score at a Lancaster Archery outdoor shoot PJ Reilly asked him about increasing his FOC and Tim essentially deflected away from the question, acted like it had absolutely nothing to do with his score, and massively downplayed it. It was almost as if PJ had revealed the magicians secret and Tim didn't want anyone to know. Now that he's no longer with Bowtech I may actually check out their lineup
I think bow companies want their staff shooters to work for them and promote the products. To drive sales to the stores. Im not certain even John Dudley is doing much of this today, or if Levi is pushing Mathews bows. It's more than just shooting. As John Shepley said lots of people have their hands out but dont put much back into the product.
foc does not = accuracy
@@paytongolden8683 it absolutely does help with accuracy, especially outdoors. It's pulling the arrow through the air instead of the arrow pushing carrying more momentum over distance, which in turn helps to reduce wind drift and maintain better stability and consistency. FOC is not just for penetrating and passing through hunted game. Why do you think darts are designed with all the weight up front? It's physics, argue it if you'd like, but I'd suggest adding 100+ grains to the front of your arrow, spining up if necessary, bare shaft tuning each arrow for perfect flight, and seeing for yourself.
Have to say that Tim’s traveling buddy, Kyle Douglas, seems to be a very quiet/shy person. Kyle will talk to me when I ask him a question but I have to “pry’ it out of him. So…….from a personable standpoint neither Tim OR Kyle are gifted with a gifted personality. Paige has spoken to me and I didn’t feel as though I had to pay her to respond. I can see why Bowtech dropped Kyle and Tim. They win but are NOT ambassadors to the sport of archery.
Very uniform comment, Tim is one of the easiest and most approachable pros out there. He spends hours at tournaments helping people with their equipment. He puts out tons of great content to archers online.